SAF Seeks to Halt Garden State Gun Grabs

追加: 2026-06-03

[00:00:06]A well- reggulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[00:00:14]Welcome to another edition of Bearing Arms Cam and Company. I'm glad you're with me on the program today. We're going to be talking with the Bill Sack from the Second Amendment Foundation. Uh they are expanding a lawsuit originally filed against the Fort Lee, New Jersey Police Department. Uh they now have some new defendants and some new plaintiffs as well. Uh they're challenging the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office uh the uh uh township of uh well Pamis, New Jersey, and uh one other township in North Jersey as well over the gun confiscation policy that is in place at the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office.

[00:00:52]And this is unbelievable. As I started reading some of the details about what these plaintiffs went through, it is amazing to me. Uh, and again, New Jersey, there's very little that surprises me in New Jersey, but this policy is so egregious that I I honestly can't believe that no municipal attorney has warned the uh prosecutor's office and the police department said, "You got to you got to change this because you're going to get us in a lot of trouble." Um, we're going to talk about the details of this again with Segment Foundation's Bill Sack.

[00:01:23]Take a look and a listen. Bill, thanks so much for your time today. It's good talking with you, sir.

[00:01:27]>> Yeah, happy to be here.

[00:01:29]>> This is just an outrageous case. Um, and I got more ticked off the the deeper I read into this amended complaint. So, this case was bad enough when SAF originally stepped in. Um, you had a guy whose wife was essentially she was, I think, 7 weeks pregnant. Um, she was uh taken to a local hospital for a mental health evaluation. They determined that she was not a threat to herself or anybody else.

[00:01:57]And yet her husband's legally owned firearms that she did not have access to were still confiscated from him. Uh and it took months for this individual to get his gun back. So that was the initial complaint. SAF just amended this complaint. You've got two more plaintiffs. You've got a couple more defendants now. Um so my first question is how did you learn about these additional cases in Bergen County?

[00:02:23]>> Yeah. So, I mean, the the facts underlying the original complaint, Mr. Aliage's case, is actually even worse than you laid it out, and we can talk about that in a minute. Um, but after we filed the initial case, which was just on behalf of the one individual, Mr. Aliage, um, a whole gang of people started coming out of the woodwork in Bergen County, New Jersey, and saying, "Oh my god, this the same thing happened to me." We even heard from some local attorneys in the area that said, "I have had multiple clients that have had this problem." So, it became very clear to us right away that this was a systemic issue um that there was clearly like a pattern in practice going on here in Bergen County and it wasn't just a one-off, you know, rogue instance that happened to Mr. Aliage, but this is something that was happening to folks all over the place.

[00:03:16]>> Okay. And so yes, as you determined and as you lay out, uh there is a a confiscation policy from the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office that all these police departments in Bergen County are following. And I I mean essentially, Bill, if if it doesn't have to be you. I mean, it can be a family member, but if if any of if any family member at any point uh has a mental health evaluation, there's some, you know, concern whether that concern is accurate or not, that that person may be suicidal. Um they can spend as little as a few hours in a hospital emergency room, right? That alone can result in lawfully possessed firearms being confiscated. It can result in your your permit to purchase or your firearms ID card being revoked years down the line. Right.

[00:04:07]>> Yeah. So, you know, I want to be really clear here that what this case is about is not individuals that themselves have been subject to mental health evaluation or any other sort of police interaction, but their family members have. So, what has been going on in Bergen County is when they determine that someone that you live with might be a prohibited person, they show up and take your guns away and then move to take your permits away as well. So, it is simply not the case under the Constitution that if you live with someone who's a prohibited person or otherwise not allowed to own firearms, let's say because they're a minor, for example, um that your rights are then extinguished under the law. And that is essentially the policy that Bergen County Prosecutor's Office and a number of police departments kind of under its umbrella have been enforcing against people there. If they find out that one of your cohabitants, a family member, a spouse, a child, gets themselves, even in the appearance of some sort of trouble or something that could be prohibiting, they show up at your door, take your stuff away, and then seek to revoke your FBI card, your your carry permit. Um, and it's it's a big problem.

[00:05:24]>> It is a huge problem. Yeah. I mean, one of the cases that you guys outline, um, I'm just going off of memory here, but there was a, uh, a young girl in high school. Uh, she and her boyfriend broke up. She was, you know, upset about it.

[00:05:37]She had made a comment about, you know, something about, I don't know how I'm going to live. I don't know what I'm going to do with my life. Anyway, she gets taken to the emergency room. I think she's there for about 6 hours. She talks to doctors. They quickly realize that, okay, she's emotional, but she's not suicidal. Um, they release her back to her family. And I think it was three almost three years later, her dad uh applies for his permit to purchase a handgun is denied because of what happened with his daughter 3 years ago.

[00:06:05]And then when he points out, hey, you guys issued me a farm's ID card like eight or nine months ago, they they then oh, they moved to revoke that permit too that they had issued >> years after this incident. I mean, so there's no rhyme or reason to this bill.

[00:06:21]>> No. No, there's absolutely no rhyme or reason to it. Uh, and most importantly, it's not only unconstitutional, but it's completely lawless. Like, it is completely unmed from even a wisp of even New Jersey state law. Um, when when pressed initially before we filed the case, uh, the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office and the Police Department, um, they didn't even know what statutes they were relying upon to have confiscated these guns and then kept them indefinitely. They just essentially said because we want to. Um and as you and I both know that is all too common in New Jersey, but uh it's not going to stand.

[00:07:00]Um not if we have anything to say about it. So it's a really interesting case.

[00:07:04]We think we're on really strong legal footing here and uh we were really thankful for Mr. Heronic and Mr. Dea Cruz who just uh joined the case with us and um we're we're looking forward to kind of sticking it to Bergen County here. I I got to say I think I think even the prosecutor's office knows you're on pretty solid legal ground because with Mr. Delic. Um he had been fighting for months to get his firearms uh returned, I believe, right? Or maybe it was his permit reinstated. Um and then just before he was added to your lawsuit, the prosecutor's office reached out and said, "Okay, hey, listen. We give you your guns back. Uh we just need you to sign this release that says, you know, we didn't do anything wrong here.

[00:07:45]Uh and we got to settle this, right?"

[00:07:47]Um, you don't do that if you're uh if you're uh thinking that you're on solid legal ground, right? That is a cover your ass move on the part of the prosecutor's office. I'm glad to see that Mr. Dela Cruz did not sign that piece of paper and instead signed up to be a plaintiff in this case. Um, how far along did this lawsuit get before this complaint uh was amended? Did the prosecutor's office respond at all? Did they try to justify themselves under any kind of New Jersey statute?

[00:08:17]>> Yeah. So, the case has been around for a little while. If I remember correctly, we filed in November of last year.

[00:08:23]>> Okay.

[00:08:23]>> When we initially filed the case um with Mr. Aliage as the sole plaintiff, his firearms were still in the possession of the Fortly Police Department. And so when we initially filed, we've also filed a motion for a preliminary injunction for him to get his stuff back cuz the our first concern with any of our clients who have been disarmed is that they get their guns back so they can go back to protecting themselves and their family, right? That's first and foremost.

[00:08:51]>> And in the process of the preliminary injunction being litigated, the Fortly Police Department decided that they were going to voluntarily give him his guns back. um ju just so happens they changed their mind about indefinitely holding his guns after the federal lawsuit was filed. Imagine that, Cam. Um and so along with that, the need for the preliminary injunction kind of evaporated. We took a step back. Um there had been some back and forth about, you know, a potential agreement in this case that ended up not materializing. Um, and so we're kind of back at square one in terms of filing this amended complaint, showing the court that look, this is not just a one-off problem. This is a systemic problem that has been um ongoing for a number of years and comes from the top at the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office and then filters down to these local police departments that have now been added to the case. um and that this is really a problem that needs to be addressed um before it's done to more people because the the facts are really clear that this is a standing policy um that has perpetuated the entire county.

[00:09:59]>> I'm curious, I mean, when as this case has gotten uh attention and going back again to the initial complaint that was filed, um is there any indication at this point that other counties in New Jersey are following a similar policy?

[00:10:14]So, we're certainly on the lookout for that. Um, at the moment, I don't have any specific evidence, you know, we're always looking for plaintiffs, right?

[00:10:22]Like, if >> if we become aware of any specific individuals that have had this happen to them where they have been disarmed because someone that they live with um either becomes a prohibited person or even potentially becomes prohibited um or for some other reason that has nothing to do with their own legal status. we would encourage them to reach out to us. Um we have a you know uh file a case uh or there's some sort of web form that we have on on our website that you can go to um or submit a case.

[00:10:55]That's what it's called where you can let us know you know if you've been affected. We would love to hear about it. Um but for the moment we're unaware of any other specific county where this has been going on this specific issue.

[00:11:06]Um, but by all means, if we become aware of it, I' I'd be thrilled to add some new defendants because if this is happening in one county in New Jersey, odds are it's coming from somewhere else. Um, whether it's the attorney general's office or otherwise. But, um, yeah, I mean, bad ideas in New Jersey spread like wildfire. So, um, yeah, if we find out about anything else, we we'd love to sue on that, too.

[00:11:29]>> Okay. Uh, well, listen, Bill, I appreciate you joining us on the program today. And, uh, what what is the next step in this lawsuit? Now, now that the admitted complaint has been filed, um I'm guessing uh Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, Pamis, Michelle Park, um they'll have the opportunity to respond. That's the next step here.

[00:11:47]>> Yeah. So, right, ne next step is they'll have an opportunity to respond either by filing an answer or filing a motion to dismiss, although good luck with that.

[00:11:56]Um uh and then at that point we'll uh we'll get a scheduling order in place and figure out some limited discovery.

[00:12:04]Although I don't think there needs to be very much here. I think the facts in the case are all pretty clear. Um so our goal is to kind of march forth with uh as fast as we can towards dispositive motions, get a motion for summary judgement in and get this thing dealt with.

[00:12:18]>> All right. Well, we will be following very closely what's going on, but appreciate to SAF stepping in trying to write this wrong. Uh Bill, thanks so much for joining me on the program today. Look forward to talking to you again soon.

[00:12:27]>> You bet. Thanks for having us.

[00:12:28]>> My thanks to Bill for joining us on the program. Again, just unbelievable to me that a prosecutor's office would be doing this.

[00:12:37]You'd think you'd know the law, but uh I guess maybe not in Bergen County. Um I just, you know, and I know this part of New Jersey as well as I know any part of New Jersey. My dad actually lived in Pamis for a number of years. So, when I saw that Paramis was part of the complaint, I was uh you know, I I I I've never dealt with the Pamis government, but let's say I was disappointed uh to see that this was going on in uh North Jersey. All right, on to today's armed citizen story. Our good deed of the day and our recidivist report. We will start there. Um, maybe not a recidivist report, but it is a headscratcher of a uh a sentence for sure. Uh, here's the headline. Teen gets probation for Halloween shooting in Cedar Rapids. Now, I mean, think about all of the headlines that we see. Uh, we got to do something about youth violence. We got to do something about gun violence, right? We got to take these things seriously. And then you get this story.

[00:13:45]Uh, this is from KCRG.

[00:13:48]A 16-year-old will serve four years of probation for a trick-or- treat shooting last Halloween in Cedar Rapids. This kid, by the way, was charged as an adult. And we know that because they're using his name.

[00:14:02]Gerald Vance of Cedar Rapids was given probation on Tuesday after he pleaded guilty to felony charges of intimidation with a dangerous weapon and willful injury causing bodily injury.

[00:14:12]Okay. Shooting happened um near an elementary school on uh Halloween again last uh October 31st. Uh Cedar Rabbis police say that Vance was in an argument on the street with several other people when he pulled out a revolver and fired at them. Um, one woman was hit in the back after one of the uh, bullets ricocheted.

[00:14:34]Uh, there does not appear, based on what I've seen. I went back and I tried to look at previous news reports, no real indication that this could have been an act of self-defense by somebody who, you know, not legally allowed to possess a firearm, but still acted to defend their life. Um, as far as I can tell, no allegations of self-defense. uh at least a valid act of self-defense on the part of police. Um his brother Gregory Vance also was charged in the incident. He ended up taking a plea deal last month for supplying the gun that he's used in this shooting. Um he will be sentenced to coming up here in a couple of weeks. The state is recommending three years of probation alone for supplying a 16-year-old with a handgun.

[00:15:19]So again, we get all of these headlines about how we have to take these incidents seriously, right? Uh juvenile gun violence is a huge problem. And I honestly I I don't disagree.

[00:15:35]I would say it's violent crime, not gun violence. But juvenile crime is a huge problem. And one of the reasons why it is a huge problem is because we don't take it seriously.

[00:15:46]And so you've got this 16-year-old who ended up hurting somebody, right? It's not as he was illegally carrying a gun. Not as he whipped it out in an argument, not just that he fired at people. He hurt someone.

[00:15:58]Thankfully, she wasn't killed.

[00:15:59]Thankfully, nobody else was wounded.

[00:16:02]But this wasn't just a prank. This wasn't some, you know, harmless act.

[00:16:09]He's arrested. He's charged. And ultimately the state says we're okay with a slap on the wrist.

[00:16:18]We're okay with that. Oh, and the brother who supplied the gun to him.

[00:16:22]Yeah, we're okay with a slap on the wrist there, too. In fact, we're not even worried about a a prison sentence being stayed. We don't think any prison sentence should be involved here.

[00:16:33]uh the 16-year-old who actually shot somebody, if they violate the terms of their probation, they would be eligible for a 10-year prison sentence. Now, that's not nothing.

[00:16:47]They'd be eligible for a 10-year prison sentence. Uh, and in Iowa, I don't know what you get if it's a day off, uh, you know, for every day that you serve if you don't punch a prison guard or shank an inmate. But um it wouldn't be 10 years. It would be closer to five.

[00:17:07]Again, not nothing. I would have preferred to have seen, let's say, a year of that applied upfront.

[00:17:15]Um we're going to put you on probation.

[00:17:19]You're young enough we hope you can turn your life around. You made a mistake.

[00:17:22]There are consequences for this mistake.

[00:17:24]And just to ensure that you understand the consequences here, we're going to give you a little taste of of what awaits you if you violate the terms of your probation once you get out from behind bars. So, we'll stay most of your sentence. You're still going to do a year. I think that would have been much more appropriate than what was handed down to Gerald Vance of Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I hope he stays on the straight and narrow, but I I'm not sure that he's really been incentivized to do so after his experience in the criminal justice system.

[00:18:00]All right, today's armed citizen story from Michigan. Hazel Park after prom shooting suspect appears to have fired in self-defense. This is um you know, we've seen a number of these types of shootings. um Airbnb, somebody rents out, you know, a a house, there's a huge party. Um, you know, if you're lucky, you're just left with like property damage, right? I don't know how these uh Airbnb owners make any money off of these things because I can only imagine that the place gets trashed uh after every one of these parties. But in this case, um there was a u a house, not a big mansion either, by the way, just a regular old house. Looked kind of like a starter home, uh in Hazel Park, Michigan that was being used as a short-term rental. Um somebody rented it for an afterprom.

[00:18:53]Bunch of people show up. This was uh last Friday, I believe, maybe. Uh yeah, I think it was last Friday.

[00:19:02]Um, there are a bunch of people it sounds like who were not in high school who showed up for this party, which is one of the problems when you rent a house that doesn't belong to you and you just open the doors and say, "Come on in." Uh, you probably don't know everybody who's going to show up.

[00:19:17]So, at one point during this party, um, there was a robbery. Apparently, when police arrived, they found a 20-year-old man from Detroit who was uh shot. He was taken to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead. There's a 19-year-old woman from Pontiac, Michigan, who suffered a non-lifethreatening injury in the incident. I'm not sure if this was as a result of a gunshot or if she, you know, tripped and hurt her ankle as she was trying to flee the home.

[00:19:45]Um, the 21-year-old who was taken into custody uh after the shooting has now been released.

[00:19:54]The 21-year-old claims that he fired in self-defense. There are witnesses who back up that account saying that uh the 21-year-old who does have his concealed carry license in Michigan um did lawfully possess that firearm was the victim of a robbery. Uh and um according to the Detroit News, evidence indicates that the man was shot after he pointed a gun at someone at the party and stole their watch. the person who fired the gun again at a valid permit to carry a firearm to police that said they fired in self-defense after witnessing the robbery. So, police say the investigation is still ongoing. Um, but at this point, again, all evidence points to this being a lawful act of self-defense.

[00:20:42]You know, you can argue should you put yourself in a situation like that, um, where you're going to be going to a, you know, a huge party after hours, you don't know who's going to be there.

[00:20:53]Frankly, you know, listen, I'm long past the age of uh showing up at random parties, but uh I have seen enough of these stories where, you know, things go go wrong that my kids who are 21, if they told me, "Hey, Dad, you know, I heard about this party online um thinking about going by for a couple of hours." I would caution them not to.

[00:21:17]I mean, they're adults. they can make their own decision, but I would tell them I think it's a really stupid idea for you to do that because we've seen enough of these incidents where uh where things do go wrong unfortunately and uh in this case, you know, the robbery took place, that robber was shot and killed.

[00:21:36]Uh I'm sure this was a traumatic event for everybody there at the party, but um if this individual really was acting in self-defense in defense of others, I'm glad they're not facing charges. Finally today, our good deed of the day in the right place at the right time will able to do the right thing. Also from the Detroit area where a priest becomes a crimefighting good Samaritan and tackles a car thief suspect. Not just tackles him but uh couple of punches as well according to the uh the good father. Um this was uh believe uh just a it was Monday evening. Uh, Reverend uh, Canon Jean Baptiste K, he's from France. Uh, he was in his church parking lot on Monday night when he heard tires squeal and he heard a large crash. So he said he ran over, saw a young man running from the scene with only one shoe on.

[00:22:31]He was in his clerical attire at the time. Cummins was, not the car thief.

[00:22:36]Um, and he thought to himself, "Okay, this doesn't look right." So he runs over, tackles the guy. Another parishioner uh who was there tackled him as well and held him down until the police arrived. The 18-year-old suspect was arrested. Uh three others were detained. Uh it's believed that the vehicle that they had been in that they then crashed was stolen at the time. Um police tried to initiate a traffic stop.

[00:23:02]That's when the suspect took off, ended up crashing into another car. The woman in that vehicle um was injured, but thankfully not seriously.

[00:23:11]The uh good father says I I grabbed him and put him down. He said he was resisting a lot, trying to run away, definitely, so I had to unfortunately give him a few punches and I hurt my hand a little bit. Another major uh but making sure that there was no threat since I didn't know if he had a gun, if he had a weapon. He said, you know, it was definitely suspicious behavior, probably guilty of the accident. He said once the uh uh suspect was down on the ground, he said he turned his attention to the woman who had been hurt in the car crash. He said, "I rushed it back to the lady uh to make sure, you know, if she needed the anointing of the sick or a blessing or something." He said, "So I was there too with the medics and she was not very responsive, but her eyes were twitching a little bit." Um so it sounds like even though these were, you know, non-lifethreatening injuries, they were still pretty serious injuries, at least at the time. Um afterwards, Fox 2 asked the uh father, "What'd you do later, like after things had settled down? You just go back to normal life?" He said, "Yeah." He said, "I went I had to do my prayers as usual. I had dinner with the community." And he said, "Wow, just another day in Detroit."

[00:24:14]So, uh I guess just another day in Detroit. things uh crime stats uh are are are much improved or where they were just a couple of years ago, but uh still I guess plenty of opportunities for crime fighting priests to step in and save the day when needed. So in the right place at the right time, willing and able to do the right thing, Reverend Colonel Jean Baptiste K, we thank you for your very, very good deed. All right, that's about all the time we have for you in this edition of Barry Arms Cam and Company. It is time to bid you a fun dovoir.

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[00:26:27]We'll see you back here tomorrow with another edition of Barry Arms Gaming Company. But until then, be well, be safe, and be free.