The Silence Around Alex Coughlan | #80

Added: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]You're very welcome back to Counterpoint where today with Fatima Gunning of H Grip Media legal correspondent, I'm going to talk about mainstream media double standards controlling the narrative and effectively trying to brainwash the Irish population.

[00:00:23]Well, uh, Fatima, you've written an excellent piece there, uh, right on the bullseye, huh, on this particular issue, uh, for grip. Uh, what was it about the juxiposition between the deaths of these two people that caught your eye so so much? Well, I suppose when you're you're talking about the the reactions to the deaths of Congalles man Eve Squila and um Irish man Alex Cochland, I think that the the most jarring difference to me was the political and activist reaction.

[00:00:55]For example, we saw Senator Eileen Flynn um outside of her doll privilege accusing seven men who were involved in restraining Mr. Tequila outside of Arnit of murdering him. And further she said that we have to ask ourselves uh if he was white if if he would have been killed essentially which I thought were very shocking statements to say completely in the absence of any evidence and also in the absence of any of those people having been charged with any wrongdoing thus far. Whereas um >> but outside of defamation that's baiting as well isn't it?

[00:01:28]>> Well to suggest without evidence that somebody was murdered because of them through the color of their skin I would say is extremely uh irresponsible especially for a sitting senator. Yeah.

[00:01:37]>> And then obviously when you look at um Alex Cochland, he was someone who was savagely beaten to death. Part of that attack was recorded and uploaded on certain social media channels.

[00:01:48]>> So how do you then, you know, as a journalist, how do you how do you then assess the treatment of both incidents from a from a journalistic perspective and a media perspective? Well, I suppose there was no um the ecosystem of activists and um you know, speculation about racism didn't kick in after Mr. Cochland's death the way it did after Mr. Squila's death. Even though those elements are present in both cases, I can say that the uh the two teenagers who are charged in relation to his death are of a Muslim and immigrant background. So we didn't see people like Senator Flynn or Ibon Joseph saying that well I think perhaps I should say that there when they were discussing Eve Squila they had this viewpoint of a collective responsibility as in Mr. Squila died according to them in circumstances where racism was at play.

[00:02:51]So they felt comfortable to say that without evidence. Whereas when you take the case of Alex Cochlin where there are similar aspects involved, no one's saying that. So it's like if an Irish person or a white person, I felt the alleged wrongdoer, everyone is suddenly like, "Oh, well this is obviously got to do with racism in Ireland more broadly and this is something about Irish people." But when the shoe is on the other foot, there's no suggestion of any kind of a collective mindset or a collective responsibility. And I think that that's a very obvious double standard at play.

[00:03:26]>> Yeah. And c can I just go back to the activist stuff? I mean, are are you are you suggesting because I think you may be that the that that these activists these these are these are what what I call activist NOS's that are actually paid for by us by the state. I mean if if you look at the if if you look at the those that were involved in this I mean these aren't organizations they're they're not volunteer organizations these are professionals aren't they?

[00:03:51]>> Um I suppose you could say that Dr. for Ian Joseph. I I don't uh know if her current role is actually state sponsored, but I mean she is lauded as a kind of a racism zar and somebody who is here to teach us how not to be racist racist essentially. Um which I I I don't get. I I think that I think that that position is al almost predicated on an idea that there is racism and it is everywhere and you know Irish people have a latent racism that I think the whole idea to be taught about white privilege then >> well that's what's happening like my colleague Ben Scallan has covered quite extensively that you know there there was a he had a whole video of people in the in the doll saying that you know Irish people have white privilege which I find quite bizarre knowing the history of this land and knowing the history >> well most of us would find that very insulting >> that would be my personal reaction like deeply insulting and and completely uh unhinged from Irish history But but when you when you look at that then and when when you go beyond the activists because they're going to do what they're going to do anyway and and and I'd imagine that a lot of it is based on state funding because that's that's I mean that that's why benefacts as a as an NGO was removed so that we couldn't see where all the money was going and joining the dots. Um when you go beyond that and then you look at the the the the political reaction on the ground in the constituency of Alex Cochland what did you find?

[00:05:22]Well, I know that there was a vigil held for him last weekend and I know that people there told RT News that they didn't see their local representatives like the names that stick in my head are Roger O Gorman of the Greens like Ruth Coper and there was a Fenigale representative as well that they didn't make themselves available to to go and to mourn Mr. Cochland. Um, and we know that there were protests held uh for Mr. Squila. In fact, there was a man seemingly trying to curse >> Arnit >> um with I I don't know now. I'm not a voodoo expert, but it looked like some kind of voodoo curse where he was swiping the place with a broom and saying people who enter would die and that >> yeah, >> he had taken two babies. I'm not too sure what that exactly meant, >> but but when when you go back to um Alex Cotland, the 36-year-old Irishman uh in in Blanchard's town, I mean, that event occurred within walking distance of Rodrig's home. So, I mean, it's not something that I mean, I find it quite extraordinary that the leader of the Green Party would decide not to turn out to a vigil or or or made any public comment certainly that I found about the matter of about the fact that um a member of his um constituency was was was fatally assaulted.

[00:06:41]>> Well, I couldn't really make any comment as to what was in his mind at the time, but >> I can see why people would be upset that he wasn't there.

[00:06:48]>> Yeah. And um you know when you then look at the um you know you know putting on your legal correspondent hat when you look at the complete dirt of data I mean we're we're in a kind of datafree zone uh in terms of the crime rates that are uh that we're experiencing and the unusual kind of crime that we're getting which we weren't getting before. uh uh and and then when when we we've done this in many times on the program um fatamin we compared it to what you know the the Denmark you know the Denmark approach was all databased we've no data at all it's like we we just we just decided it's not happening because we we because that's the way we'd like to feel about it um but I mean that's that's not you you can't make policy on the basis of feelings >> well I suppose it it probably started off like our rules would have been made in a very homogeneous society where you probably didn't think you'd need to uh record the ethnicity of a person and then overnight essentially we're now is one quarter foreign born. So I think that perhaps older systems that were suitable for the Ireland at the time have maybe been ignored shall we say or maybe there there's certainly a reluctance to to update them so that the guard can record ethnicity. I mean, we saw the Irish Times, um, Ellen Coin, I believe, of the Irish Times, making, uh, very quite a, I would say, unsatisfactory article about the Women's Coalition and their efforts to encourage legislative change so that the Gardi can record ethnicity. So then if migrant crime is then not a problem, that data will show it. And if it is a problem, the data will show it and then we'll know. But even that seems to be not okay.

[00:08:30]>> Yeah, I find that funny.

[00:08:32]>> Well, well, I mean, well, with I mean, it just appears to me that data seems to be a taboo subject on on this area. You know, there's there's an awful lot of labeling, as you know, far right and racism and so on and so forth. But actually, the central point here, I think, for most ordinary people is is security. It's it's the safety of the community, the safety of the women in the community, you know, mothers and daughters and so on and and the safety of of vulnerable people who not in a position to defend themselves in a community. And the fact that the Guardi themselves, I know from speaking to them, are deeply concerned about what's coming in. I'm not talking now about normal migration. I'm I'm talking about a regular migration. We've no information. I mean, it seems to me to be um self-evident that we're we're going to we're going to end up in a serious we are ending up in a serious problem. I had a I had a convers I had a contact from a very senior official in the prison service uh telling me about the the volume of of of prisoners that they were now experiencing and the issues that that officer was experiencing. And uh all of this information is there. it's just not being collated into any kind of coherent foundation or basis upon which journalists like you can can get into the data and report on the data. And uh I I just find the whole thing quite intolerable that that like how many more how many more incidents are we I'm going to be sitting here talking to journalists about that we're going to experience before we finally wake up to the fact that Ireland is no different from any other European country. We don't have any special virtue. we don't have any special way of defending ourselves from quite clearly what is a common problem throughout the European Union.

[00:10:07]>> I suppose what you're saying is that if certain um demographics like particularly the men reason region the Middle East, North Africa, Turkey and Pakistan, if men from those areas are over represented in sexual crime statistics, which they are in other European countries, why would that not be the case here? I mean, is there something very placating about the rocks or the soil or the water in Ireland that might make, you know, and that's obviously not to say that every single person is a risk?

[00:10:33]>> Um, which I think should go without saying, but when we're living in an ecosystem where anyone who draws any kind of a a critical uh look at migration and the results of migration is immediately castigated as far and a racist. Um, and I think that the uh the kind of the political media and NGO class, they kind of have this way of looking at migrants like a homogeneous blob where it's like a devoid of agency like a homogeneous blob where it's either like migrants are all good all the time and you can't say anything about it or or that you're saying that they're all bad all the time. And I don't think anyone like me is saying that all like I don't think that we're saying that. I think that we're saying is that this is what's happening in the courts. this is what's happening on their streets. Campaigners like Licia de Brun of the Countess and her women's coalition, they want the info so that we don't need to speculate anymore.

[00:11:25]>> I mean, I see what I see in the courts.

[00:11:27]I see a very large number of foreign nationals being brought before the criminal courts. Um, I don't have enough information to categorically state whether there's an over representation there because it's not being collated as as we've said. Um, and I think that a responsible society would probably want that data.

[00:11:47]>> Well, well, we're certainly not getting it um at the moment and there doesn't seem to be any any release of the grip around it. And I just I mean, it's quite obvious for me just just just just looking at it that there's a reason why we're not getting the data. It's not that they can't do it. It's there's a reason for us not getting it. And I think that reason is self-evident. Well, I think if you look back at certain discussions that would have been had in the doll a few years ago where it was uh deputy Carol Nolan brought up the um the issue with uh accepting unlimited numbers of Ukrainian beneficiaries of temporary protection and she said that well how are we going to cope like we have a finite amount of resources and you're you're throwing open the floodgates and she was accused I believe it was Darra O'Brien Minister Dar O'Brien at the time of being being a danger to social cohesion >> where a a few years down the road now everybody's like ah yeah like sure there was nowhere to put them that wasn't a good idea. So it's almost like you're castigated in this country if you're correct too early.

[00:12:51]Um and I just yeah it's it's it's it's extraordinary like it's it's it's already a fire aim approach we have to to to these type of things. Uh it's no it's no quite obvious that um the biggest problem we have is is is our capacity. We're we're we're way above our capacity and uh we can we can see that if we just look around. I mean you just look at the you know the IP pass centers and uh you look at um threequarters of our GPS are closed for new patients and and so on and so on and so on and so on and uh so I mean all of those things can be dealt with over time but they can't they can't be dealt with in the moment. that can't be dealt with uh you know in time for the fact that we are now just a few weeks away from Brussels >> deciding on how many irregular migrants we're going to take. That's a decision that's going to be made in Brussels by ci by civil servants. Um because uh our government decided contrary to the outcome of Lisbon too vote by using the whip to vote Ireland voluntarily joining the EU migration pact in in in an extraordinary me absolutely extraordinary uh decision which was against the national interest and this is this is where this is where we're ending up. I mean, we're seeing things like just today a Somali asylum seeker uh pleaded guilty to attacking uh I believe they're 18year-old girls twins on on Dame Street last April.

[00:14:12]>> Um so >> last month.

[00:14:13]>> Yeah, sorry I lose track of time in those courts. Um well, yeah, the last time he was mentioned at least would have been April this year.

[00:14:19]>> And what was the nature of the attack?

[00:14:20]Uh so the Gara evidence was that this man was essentially pestering them um trying to come on to them it seems and that they told him where to go and he then took exception to this and had a broken glass bottle which he attacked them with. Uh one of the girls had to have a piece of glass removed from from her forehead in hospital and a uh a passer by who tried to intervene was also injured. Uh so that's a person who is an asylum seeker. Now, as the law stands in the country, the um there's a certain provision in the 2015 International Protection Act where I actually can't tell you that that man is an asylum seeker. Um so, if I name him, his name escapes me at this moment.

[00:15:04]>> I can tell you his name. I can tell you he's from from Somalia, but I can't tell you that that's his name and he's from Somalia and he's an asylum seeker. So journalists are put in a position where you I you have to emit a crucial detail from the story because I think that the Irish people deserve to know why this random Somali man was in Dublin to be able to attack these two girls on Dame Street >> in broad daylight.

[00:15:26]>> No, this would have been at night. But like look, anyone who's a teenager in Dublin, Dame Street is like, you know, you're going to be milling through there at all hours and you think you're going to be fine. But that's >> wasn't the case for those two girls unfortunately.

[00:15:39]>> Yeah. Yeah, Somali seems to be I mean I mean I'm not picking on a particular country obviously. Well, but I mean but it see it seems to be coming up again and again that uh that there I mean we already know I mean anybody that's looked on on on cultural history between Christianity and Islam knows that there is issues here and there's religious issues you know where um where where um where non-Muslim women um are treated completely differently by um you know traditionally uh compared to Muslim women by the Muslim community you know by the male Muslim community. And I'm not saying that of all Muslims at all.

[00:16:10]I'm just simply saying that there is a that there that it's quite clear to me just as a new just as an observer that we have we have a security problem that we're failing to discuss properly in this country. Yes, it's a minority. We we can we can dance around that fact all day, but you can't get away from the fact that you're seeing it in the courts. I'm hearing it about the prison population and it's now beginning to appear on the streets. And when when suddenly we get an event like this in justosition where these two deaths occur almost simultaneously the entire effort is around one and the focus is completely off another and we're in the middle of 2026. It's like we've learned nothing. So my question really is what has to happen before we do learn something.

[00:16:54]>> It's a huge issue. There's you know Ireland has experienced so many changes over uh my relatively short lifetime. uh Dublin city center in particular to me is quite unrecognizable now. H I think in parts of the city center Irishlooking people are a minority. Um I think that's a sad thing.

[00:17:14]>> Um I think that if I went to Tokyo and the majority of people were not Japanese, I'd be disappointed. Uh I don't think it's a natural situation. I think that um a lot of people in this country are extremely upset about the rapid demographic change and as you touched on the effect that that has on basic resources like housing like I'm a relatively young adult can't afford a house. I have friends who are very well educated who have moved overseas to be able to rent a property because they haven't hope and hell of uh being able to to do so here. Um, and I think that that situation is I think that people are being very dishonest, especially people in the houses of power when they say that immigration isn't a contributing factor to that. I think even a four-year-old would know that if you have two houses and 10 people want the house, it's, you know, it's it's not a good situation where if you have two two houses and two people want the house, everyone can get a house.

[00:18:10]>> Um, so it's not like it's not really my role as a journalist. can't really say too much about what should happen, but I can certainly say that there are issues going on. Um, you know, we're having large numbers of people from cultures where certain behaviors are expected of women that wouldn't be traditional to how Irish women live their lives in terms of like, you know, I think you touched upon modesty culture with Islam and that kind of thing.

[00:18:38]>> Yeah. Um, and I think that there's a huge reluctance to to speak about it. I mean, when you know, Iraqi Kurd Ysef Palani killed two gay men down in Siggo, there was no national debate on the prevalence of homophobia in Islamic teachings or that it's basically it's illegal to execute people for homosexual acts. And I believe the number is 13 Islamic states globally. So when you have relatively large cohorts coming here, which is a society that has a very staunchly pro-LGBT stance, >> yeah, >> I described it as putting a fox in a hen house.

[00:19:18]>> Yeah.

[00:19:18]>> And that's not to say that everybody who follows Islam wants to harm gay people.

[00:19:22]I know that that's not the case. Yeah, >> but to kind of just stick your fingers in your ears and say la nothing's happening is it's led to >> well it shouldn't be national policy which I mean sticking your finger in your ears and saying la is is exactly where national policy is at the moment.

[00:19:35]You mentioned Japan and that's interesting you should me mention Japan because the Japanese have have have very strict rules around this. You I mean they just don't tolerate it. They they don't tolerate um you know it what what what could be you know generally described as a Islamization of their country. they're just not putting up with it. They're saying, "But we're not having that here, and that's that." And uh and and and it's just said, "Well, that's the Japanese way." But over here, uh you know, when when you talk about this um and and you and you point out to the to the the crime figures and so on, even as we're doing it now, you know, people are listening to this, they're getting uncomfortable because they've been conditioned to think that way, to think that you, you know, it's it's about racism, etc., you know, it's about um you know, ignorance and all the rest of it. It's not actually. It's about security. I mean, that's my point. Like, it was always been about security for the Irish and uh and and and we're still not taking it seriously because we're not even prepared to disclose the data and clear clearly we're not disclosing the data because the data is going to show we have a problem with security.

[00:20:37]>> I think that again like the political and the media class are very very wedded to this kind of kumbaya image that everyone is just the same. Um and I I would love to believe that that was the case. You know, I'm a mixed race person myself. I would love to believe that you could just go and hike in the Himalayas by yourself and everything would be grand as long as you didn't slip and fall, >> but unfortunately that's not reality.

[00:20:57]>> Um, and I think that it's it's very it's immature and it's naive when we we know that other countries and other cultures have very different attitudes particularly towards women and girls.

[00:21:10]There are countries and cultures that are in favor of child marriage. like in Afghanistan, you can now marry a 9-year-old girl. Um, and we it's just something that we we don't seem to want to talk about. And it's it's something that when we see people from places like that coming to live in Ireland, we kind of assume that they leave those attitudes with them at the airport in Cabo for example. And I think that's I think that's very naive. I think that's a naive viewpoint. So Fatima, you know, when we look at what's happened in terms of the reporting uh as between Alex Cochland's fatal assault and uh Eve Sakila, uh the Congolese man, Congalles Irishman, uh if you were if you were reframing if you were if you were writing those two stories at the same time and you were in command of the mainstream media, how how would you do it? What would be different about it?

[00:22:04]Well, there wouldn't be any comment in the absence of fact because you know we there is a guard investigation ongoing in relation to Alex Cochland and I there obviously is a guard investigation in regards to Eve Squila as well but um you can't comment on the specifics of what's in those investigations like there are quite a few things that I know about uh both that I actually can't say um because it's subdue to say I suppose is is the term >> um and I I thought I could imagine people who have a genuine concern to see justice done would respect that and refrain from making comments and accusations and things that they they don't have any any basis for now and like maybe when you know time rolls on and we do know more they could be proven right or they could be proven wrong but in the absence of any evidence I think it would be great if people could stop jumping to conclusions.

[00:22:59]>> Yeah. But I mean, but in terms then of the actual amount of coverage, the space that's given to both, would would would would both feature equally?

[00:23:08]>> If I was in charge, of course. Yeah. I mean, don't all lives matter after all.

[00:23:12]I suppose that statement in itself is controversial.

[00:23:14]>> Yeah. And uh you know when you look then at a final question when you looked at the likes of um um Senator Eileen Flynn and her you know her her spontaneous um speech uh from the from the from the plinth uh you know out out in I think it was Stevens Green was it or was it Marian Square Marian Square Marian Square I mean you I mean you must we must we must look at that kind of response through our fingers mustn't we It it it beggars belief that that that would have got more attention to me than than than than than straightforward professional journalistic reporting.

[00:23:57]>> Well, look, I suppose we live in a kind of a gawker age where like the most outrageous thing on social media gets the it garers the most attention. Um, but I just think it's hideously irresponsible and hideously cringe for a member of the Shannon to have made comments like that.

[00:24:13]>> Inside the doll, hideously cringe.

[00:24:16]Outside the doll, dangerous and irresponsible. Like those men who are involved in restraining Mr. Squila. They don't have a platform from which to defend themselves. Pretty sure they're probably being told not to talk about it by the Guardi, which is like fair.

[00:24:30]There's an investigation ongoing. And for somebody like that who should know better to subvert all of the well also making um reference to the justice system, it has to be said very ironically like this is somebody who deliberately like sorry this is somebody who repeatedly paints herself as a victim of some kind of prejudice or other because of her background or whatever it might be. And yet she stood out there on Marian Square and she accused seven men who have not been charged with any criminal wrongdoing of murdering a man because he was black.

[00:25:06]And I think that's unacceptable.

[00:25:08]>> Well, look, um, you know, we leave it at that. I think uh we with a good detailed discussion on it. It's it's a difficult area this, you know, for for all sorts of reasons, but it's a conversation I believe we must have as a people because there are very significant matters uh at play here. Uh so um I want to thank you for coming in Fatimate your your first uh your first counterpoint interview.

[00:25:30]First of a few I hope as as as matters unfold. I hope we'll be talking about other matters into the future. I fear we won't be. I think I think this is going to continue until such time as uh people begin to say we we we've had enough of this. You know we need the data. We need a proper system and we need to enforce it properly and protect ourselves. Uh so we leave it at that. Uh you know what to do. Hit the like and subscribe button.

[00:25:51]If you think this is important, send it around to members of your community and let's have the conversation that has not been had on mainstream media as between ourselves. Thank you very much, Feter.

[00:26:00]>> Thank you.