The Psychology She Uses to Win Every Call

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:19]Hey everyone.

[00:00:23]Two secs.

[00:00:24]Just going to ping this group.

[00:00:28]Make sure everyone knows this is on.

[00:00:30]Um Where is the swing?

[00:01:10]Okay.

[00:01:19]Can you hear me okay? I just switched over audio. Yeah. All right.

[00:01:25]So, welcome to the sales equation. What we're focusing I mean predominantly I can help you guys with anything sales related, but predominantly where I can really help is the EQ, emotional intelligence, human behavior, human or behavioral intelligence, like that the sales psychology component. You know, like it's not that one is less important than the other. Both are important, but a lot of our training that gets us to a certain point is very focused on what to say.

[00:02:01]So, scripts and and word tracks. What do I say when they say this as opposed to understanding how a person thinks and and feels, being able to predict and influence future behavior and being able to put yourself in a position where for lack of better words, we're able to kind of manipulate the outcome as much as possible. I don't like the word manipulate because it sounds unethical, but I mean it in an ethical sense.

[00:02:33]Because we know that most people who we interact with in a sales conversation are in in the area of their life they're having a conversation with you about, they're not necessarily making the best decisions possible in that area of their life or they probably wouldn't be in the situation that they're in. So, take a person who is unfeared, overweight, unhealthy, it's impacting them.

[00:02:57]Like you know, objectively they haven't made the the best decisions that they could in that area of their life.

[00:03:05]And we're here to kind of figure out why that is and help them. But it's like even though they might want the change, you know, the behavior at the end of the conversation is often uncomfortable. And I I really just want that that next step to feel really natural for them because I don't want to deal with objections and things if I don't have to. It doesn't mean that I've got an issue doing that, but like if I don't have to, it's just in my mind it's a better experience for both of us.

[00:03:29]You know what I mean? Like imagine we get to the end of that call and to that person the next step just feels like it makes sense as opposed to this resistance behind it.

[00:03:40]So, that's really where you know, I I want to help people or sales reps develop their knowledge is in how you know, how do I get inside somebody's somebody's head and and rather than just focus on what to say like who to be and and and how do I help them kind of make an identity transition throughout my conversation.

[00:04:02]Um so, you guys cool with that?

[00:04:06]We all do that kind of stuff anyway by the way, just typically unconsciously.

[00:04:09]And anything we're doing unconsciously, we can't really utilize intentionally. And so, it's about just bringing this stuff to our awareness and then developing it so that it becomes a tool in our sales toolkit.

[00:04:22]Okay? Um so, yeah, today we can do like role play or snippets of call reviews or you know, Q&A, problem solving.

[00:04:30]Basically, I want to help you guys solve problems and whatever's going to help you to do that the best, I'm I'm down for it. So, just pop up your hand if you've got something you want to go over with me go over with me. Don't wait till like 5 minutes before the end to put your hand up. Like if you think there's something you want to go over, just put your freaking hand up. Okay?

[00:04:45]Cuz I'll kind of decide how much time I allocate to people based on how many hands are up. And so, five of you put your hand up 10 minutes from the end, then you know, you're not going to get what you need.

[00:04:56]Awesome. Rachel, Bradley, Angel.

[00:04:59]Rachel, how can I help?

[00:05:02]Um I know last week we were talking mainly about like um pride and anger and then we're unmasking them, wheeling out when they're doing that. But what about like more towards the bottom when they're they're coming in and they're like, "Man, I'm so ashamed of myself. I don't get to spend any time with my kids and you know, I'm I'm miserable. I'm working so many hours." But some of them are like that and then that's kind of where it stops, but some I feel like they almost see-saw, like I've accepted that I need some help now and that's why I'm on the call. Can they kind of see-saw between the lower levels and the higher or is that just me not understanding?

[00:05:38]>> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. So, I think I understand what you mean. It's sort of like in theory that type of language might indicate that someone's in a low lower level state. And then based on what I've spoken to you about previously, that you know, those are typically disempowered states and where people are they're they're going to be resistant to change. So, it all depends on the place that this ownership is coming from.

[00:06:06]Okay? So, we all I'm sure a lot of us have heard of cause and effect and ownership and and responsibility.

[00:06:14]And I'll I mean I'll share my screen just so that it's visual for everybody.

[00:06:18]Um But if we look at if we lean on the framework that I've been leaning on, which is like the map of consciousness by David David Hawkins, um any of these states What's happening? Are you guys seeing the right screen? Bring the call back here.

[00:06:33]>> see it.

[00:06:34]Yeah, I don't know what's happening.

[00:06:35]Picture in picture is open because you're screen sharing. I've no idea what that means. Hang on, let me just repeat that. Maybe I did something wrong.

[00:06:48]I guess my my biggest question on that is do you treat them differently? Do you have to like kind of cuddle them a little bit and No, so I want Hang on. What are This Google Meet updated or something?

[00:07:00]Now I don't know how to drive it. Now I've got people in my waiting room.

[00:07:02]>> It's showing us your right screen, the right screen on our end. Thank you.

[00:07:06]Okay, I'm just I'm over 30 now, which means I can't operate certain things. Um Yeah, so the first thing I just wanted to say about that is like like somebody like language alone is just one piece of communication. So, I don't want to make an assumption based off the language that I'm hearing like I'm oh, this person is expressing shame about something, then they're in a low level state. Because shame in itself is a very unproductive emotion and a lot of times when people are feeling like a deep shame and it's and it's and it's controlling them in a way they're overwhelmed by that, they're not often talking to you about it.

[00:07:45]Because the behavioral tendency of a person in shame is to like eliminate themselves, to hide away, to avoid.

[00:07:51]It's It's why It's one of the main reasons that prospects ghost.

[00:07:55]Especially if you've had a conversation with someone who was like, "Oh my god, I really want this. This sounds like exactly what I need. I know I need to do something." And we've created a lot of that tension. We've held the mirror up.

[00:08:06]They know what they need to do. Um but maybe they are still like afraid and and and we don't know that. Or maybe they've got no money and they're the shame of that is holding them back from letting us know like, "Hey, I don't have the money." And we let them go. We're going to have a follow-up tomorrow and collect the money and then what happens?

[00:08:25]Crickets. A lot of times that's because what that shame has unfortunately led that person to do is instead of opening up and saying like, "I really want to do this. Like I I don't have that amount of money." Is could be potentially like break it up, like how could we figure this out?

[00:08:42]Instead of them being in a resourceful state, they go, "Oh my god, I'm absolutely going to do this. Just give me till tomorrow. I've got to move some money over. Like can you give me a call at this time? Yep, I'm so excited to chat." And then you just don't hear from them.

[00:08:54]So, shame is a really unproductive emotion. So, the reason I want to bring that up is if somebody is is like if it's disempowered ownership, like they're sort of they're really beating themselves up and I'm just like, "I'm a piece of shit." It's like that that might not be That's like disempowered ownership almost.

[00:09:13]Yeah, they're like really internalizing whatever is going on. Yeah, but I can talk about that same type of scenario from a place of courage.

[00:09:24]You know, I mean I mean even opening up to you about that is an act of courage, isn't it? Because typically a person who's feeling shame about something will hide away, will avoid. I don't want to talk about it or they're unwilling to even admit that it's a problem. So, the fact this person is like, "Hey, this is a source of shame for me, but like I am almost aware that maybe the way I've been dealing with this in the past isn't serving me and so instead I'm going to like step into this place of courage and I'm going to just tell you what's up even though I feel deeply ashamed about this thing that I'm talking about. That is courage.

[00:10:02]Okay? And so now what I want to make sure that I do though is like in that conversation, I want to I want to bring to their awareness that that is an act of courage and I want to anchor them in that state because what I don't want them to do is end up almost internalizing this so much that they shift into that low-level state. So it's just those really simple things like um I mean uh Matt Matt's here. He he's on like a marriage offer and there are guys that are opening up to him about some like pretty awful things that they've done. Maybe infidelity throughout their marriage and things that a lot of people for you know I can appreciate why keep themselves.

[00:10:42]They're opening up about it. And so it's just those little things like well hey man, like I really appreciate the uh the ownership or um well hey kudos to you for actually being willing to talk about this because as I'm sure you know as a as a man yourself what a lot of us tend to do sometimes as guys with things like this is we just we just avoid it. We don't want to talk about it and you know what we avoid persists. So it's like it's refreshing to have a conversation with someone like yourself who's at that point in his life where he's like, you know what? Enough's enough. It's time to do something different.

[00:11:13]Right? You know, it's those little things of like where they might be expecting cuz this is what they've been doing beating themselves up. They might be anticipating judgment.

[00:11:23]They might be anticipating you know, their concern is like I already view myself as kind of a [ __ ] person.

[00:11:30]Then if I open up to you about this and you're kind of like, oh man, what for 30 years you've been [ __ ] on your wife?

[00:11:36]What a piece of [ __ ] Yeah, and now there's more evidence that I'm this awful person and now it's not a secret anymore and oh my god, that's emotionally painful.

[00:11:44]Yeah, and so for me to instead meet that with like okay, well I'm going to have conversations with guys every week in in exactly the same position.

[00:11:53]Yeah?

[00:11:56]They're they're like, oh this person's not judging me.

[00:12:00]Maybe I'm not a piece of [ __ ] Oh, that's a good point.

[00:12:04]Okay, so it's I'm just wanting to listen to is this does it feel like this is coming from an empowered place of like you know what? I accept that this is on me. You know, I have messed up. I should have done something about this earlier, but I've decided enough is enough. Like I just it's time to make a change. Yeah, yeah, I'm deeply ashamed about it and like I'm talking about it and all this kind of jazz, but like it's time to do something. Do you see what I mean? I can talk about because the people in these higher level states are focused on growth and change and possibility. And so I can open up and say this thing is a source of shame for me, but I want a new reality. That is high level.

[00:12:43]Does that make sense, Rachel? The dis- the distinguishing Well they're they break it down like that. Whereas this person is in the having a pity party.

[00:12:53]Like oh woe is me and I'm this this I'm this like awful person, you know? If you think about the buying pocket you've got people that are too far out the outside the buying pocket this way where there's almost too much belief.

[00:13:06]Like yeah, I'm having a conversation with you about maybe getting some help to solve this problem, but like I'm pretty sure I could figure this out for myself. I'm just more curious about what you guys have to say.

[00:13:17]There's too much confidence and often times it's false confidence. And then you've got people who are outside the buying pocket the other way where there's not enough belief.

[00:13:26]Yeah, and a person in shame for example is it they're they're like they're starting to believe or they might already believe that like I'm the problem. Or they're like, look there's a really good chance here that I'm just broken.

[00:13:40]And if that's their belief about themselves, then what difference does it make when I lay out a a program that's going to help them solve the problem if their belief is I'm the problem.

[00:13:53]I don't believe that there's really anything that I can do that's going to change things here because I'm just there's something wrong with me.

[00:14:04]Make sense?

[00:14:07]Yeah, and so with those people, I'm going to build them up and I think that's the difference as a lot of people go into sales conversations going I've got to create doubt and I've got to get like you know, I've just got to make you know, doubt doubt doubt. I've got to create this like massive gap and it's like some people need to be built up.

[00:14:25]Not everyone needs to be brought down.

[00:14:29]Yeah?

[00:14:30]It's almost like they've got to have the belief in themselves that they can do it, but not on their own.

[00:14:35]Like I believe that with a little bit of help I can do this.

[00:14:40]I just need a bit of help.

[00:14:43]Okay?

[00:14:44]Um [snorts] so there's that part cuz I think that's an important distinction to have is that it's not just language, it's what's the meaning here? What are the beliefs here that that are like behind it? And is is this person talking about this from a disempowered or an empowered place?

[00:15:03]Okay? Um now what was the other part of the question?

[00:15:08]You kind of talked about it a little bit like we have to treat the you know, the um the pride and anger people we have to lean out, but these people you said we have to build them up. So I think you kind of answered the Yeah. question a little bit.

[00:15:21]Exactly. So when we've got someone who might be in like pride or or anger, this outward energy and and certainly pride is like uh I'm not the problem. Everyone else and everything else is. I've got to figure out just things aren't working the way that they that they are. So this person is there's a an abdication of responsibility and and ownership there.

[00:15:44]There's uh there's you know, maybe they're they're not accepting you know, the the the real reality. They're they're defending this kind of like false reality, this false um like image. And yeah, I need to uh kind of tactfully seed out and and help this person come to a place where they're actually willing to admit, hey I have a pain point. I have a problem that I want to do something about. And then the next part of that is, hey I yeah, okay, I'm willing to also admit that maybe I haven't got it all figured out as far as how to actually solve this. Yeah, okay, that's true. So I need those two um things, but that's like I got to chip chip away at that. Get them to like drop that mask and go, all right, yeah, things aren't great actually.

[00:16:37]Whereas with the other person, the people in the more lower level states like shame, like guilt, like anger and grief, etc. They're more willing they're more likely to be really like open about what's going on, um but these negative like thoughts and emotions that are creating this state of being are weighing them down.

[00:16:59]And I've got to be like, hey like no, you got this.

[00:17:03]You got this.

[00:17:06]Make sense?

[00:17:07]Yep.

[00:17:08]Yeah, okay.

[00:17:09]Um did that answer your question? Do you feel like you've got what you need for out of that? Yeah, that was helpful. I appreciate that.

[00:17:16]Awesome. Okay.

[00:17:18]Um and and as well, that's not from a place of like coddling them so to speak or like, oh my god, yeah, that must have been so hard for you. Like no, the the way that I nurture them is through uh is through like you know, gently helping them to take ownership and and and and being like, well hey um you know, yeah, kudos to you for for the self-accountability for I suppose looking back and realizing there are things that maybe we we should have done that we didn't, but I mean we can't change the past. All we can do really do is decide, all right, how how am I going to change things moving forward then?

[00:17:57]You know? So do you see how I'm like there is nurture there where I'm like, you're not a piece of [ __ ] but I'm also not buying into their story at all.

[00:18:06]Okay?

[00:18:07]Yep. And that's the difference. That's like that balance that sometimes we have to figure out. Sometimes we go from one extreme to the other. We go to one extreme where we just slap the [ __ ] out of people. And maybe that's what we need because maybe up until this point we've been too much of a [ __ ] But we might swing way too far to the left and suddenly we're like really pissing people off and they're like F you, [ __ ] Like it's like, oh okay, maybe I've gone a bit too far this way.

[00:18:30]And then you know, we we kind of swing between the two until we find that kind of middle middle ground. Um and and you know, the middle ground or the balance isn't the same for everybody. It's like it it might be a bit here for this person and a bit more here this way, but we do kind of find this sweet spot so to speak, this sweet spot range.

[00:18:50]Okay?

[00:18:51]Uh all right, Bradley, how can I help?

[00:18:55]Yeah, um so I kind of I guess I wanted to take it in the other direction cuz my I I'm struggling right now with my consequence question. Um and the like the whole point of that of course is to unearth negative emotion I suppose, right? Cuz you want to show how >> What what what are you like what are you what's happening when you ask a consequence question? What do you feel like you're struggling with it?

[00:19:20]>> Because because my solution is not it's not like a strict ROI kind of solution, nor is it necessarily like fixing a a specific problem although like What's the problem with the strategic context, but like what's happening?

[00:19:37]Well that that's exactly So so then what happens is people say I'll say the like what would happen, you know, if you didn't take action on this, you didn't apply and you never got your doctorate and things kind of continue as they have been for who knows the next like 5, 10 or more years, what happens you know, what happens then? And then I had I spoke with two masters-level counselors today, and one of them basically, in so many words, told me that it would make no difference whatsoever. That he just was just like, "Yeah, like it's not really about getting the degree. I mean, I could probably be fine without it. Um And then so what does that what does that tell us that we've missed upstream?

[00:20:19]Well, I suppose it means that I didn't do a good enough job uh at listening a problem. Uh and then he >> I had genuinely genuinely admitted to you and accepted that there is something about my situation that I do not like and I'm I'm willing to accept it anymore, it's time to make a change, then if if I was to if someone was to ask me a consequence question about like, all right, well, suppose we don't make a change, where does that lead?

[00:20:51]Would I really respond in that way?

[00:20:53]Like, oh, Yeah, well, fair fair enough.

[00:20:56]I mean, but because I mean, even in the problem awareness, that was a challenge, too, because I was just like, "So, you know, what's making you feel like having a master's is and and the kind of the situation that you find yourself might not be enough for you?"

[00:21:11]He kind of he punted that, too. He was just sort of like, "Oh, you know, I mean, like, I'm not sure that's the right" He literally told me he's like, "I don't really know that's the right question. It's not so much that it's not enough, it's just that, you know, I I'm just thinking of ways to expand my level of knowledge, my clinical abilities, and maybe get to the next level."

[00:21:29]>> That's that's in that that's actually kind of helpful information a little bit because so there's there's two kind of primary drivers typically for people.

[00:21:38]There are they're either running away from pain, like that's their pri- like look, there's always a bit of both, right? But I'm I'm talking like primary driver. I'm either running away from pain, that's kind of where my a lot of my focus is, and and and that's my primary driver, or there might be something about where I'm at that like I'm not 100% happy with, but it's like not my primary driver.

[00:22:01]It's more focusing on like uh it's more future-focused and and and where I want to go. And now oftentimes when if people are at like uh you know, I'll use a different industry to articulate it, but in in health and fitness, I might have the some somebody who's really really overweight and really unhappy with you know, they've got no confidence now and just they're really miserable about where they're at with their health.

[00:22:27]They're looking to go from like bad to good.

[00:22:30]Zero to 100.

[00:22:33]Okay?

[00:22:34]Um or zero to 10, so to speak. Now, the other person might be that person who is like, I don't know, use me as an example, like I'm I'm like of health, yeah? Like I've I I'm pretty fit, I'm pretty strong, like I don't mind the way my body looks, but if I was to look at like a someone who is wanting to go on stage and and be like a bodybuilder, all right, that would be the next level for me. So, if I had decided that was something that I wanted and you know, you kind of ask me like if something happened that's made you feel like kind of the way you look right now is not enough, I would probably say like, oh, no, I mean, it's not that. I suppose I'm just like when I look at when I think about the idea of really getting to that point with my fitness, it just there's just something about that that is making me want to accomplish it, to be able to be like, ah, cool, I did that. Like it just the idea of being able to put my knee to get to that stage, like that's really cool. So, he's sort of saying to you that like my driver's not I'm I'm really unhappy with where I am, my driver is about what I want to work towards, and we should get that driver right at the top in like connection. Is understanding like, what are they looking for? And often people will open up about like either the what they say will often give you insight into that primary driver.

[00:23:59]So, if in their language they I can understand their focus is on something they're unhappy with and like a problem, then pain the running away from pain is possibly the the bigger like the primary driver.

[00:24:13]Whereas if they're more like like, you know, if we use that same example, I got on and I instead of saying like, oh, I just I I I really need to lose weight. Like I just really uncomfortable in clothes, want to lose weight, kind of problem pain-focused versus if I said like, well, you know, I mean, I'm pretty happy with the way that I look now. I just um I mean, uh yeah, I guess I just want to I want to find a way to get to the next level. I want to be ripped. I want to be shredded. Like I want to be able to do that. Where's my focus there? It's more on something I'm like running towards, isn't it?

[00:24:44]Okay? And so then with that Um we Yeah, does that make sense?

[00:24:49]>> Yeah, it totally makes sense, but I did that, too. I I cuz I after that I pivoted to like solution awareness. I was like, "Okay, so suppose that, you know, you could have what you wanted, you got your doctorate and and you know, you you >> Why are we in solution awareness if we didn't get what we needed up there? Like let's let's role-play it. I think that would be that would probably be that would probably >> Okay, where do you want to start?

[00:25:10]So, I think just start at the start.

[00:25:12]Yeah, cuz yeah, every outcome leads down to like an effective consequence, you know, if I haven't got what they're looking for, if I don't adequately understand where they are, if they haven't accepted I don't like where I am, I want to go the next level, I haven't got that pain point, the problem, etc., then I'm going to get to that stage and I'm not going to have enough, and it's going to fall flat. So, I want to make sure that like at the top of the call, the most important part, we're getting the outcomes we need there. So, can I have someone be a just so I can observe uh undistracted? Can I have someone be a prospect for Bradley? Let's figure out what's going on. Matthew, okay, amazing.

[00:25:45]Don't be don't be too hard or anything like that. Like like I'd say make Bradley work a little bit, don't be impossible, cuz I more want to hear structure, I want to hear how Bradley kind of looks for that, and then maybe Bradley just give Matt some context on like someone like that. And just so he can kind of be a good prospect for you, so to speak. Sure, yeah. So, Matthew, this I sell a a doctoral program in clinical psychology um for people that want to be clinical psychologists, and um a lot of my well, in this case, the client the client is a master's-level counselor, so he is he's a LPC counselor.

[00:26:23]And he has a private practice already.

[00:26:26]He's been in, you know, practicing for I don't know, like 5, 10, 15 years or something. And so, he's looking to perhaps get to the next level um and expand his skill set, his knowledge, his diagnosing abilities, stuff like that. Does that does that make sense?

[00:26:45]I can't hear you, you're muted. I can't hear you.

[00:26:50]All right. How about now? Can you hear me now? Yeah, there you go.

[00:26:53]Yeah, cool. Now, I got I got you, Bradley. So, yeah, whenever whenever you're whenever you're ready. Okay, ring ring.

[00:26:58]Hello?

[00:26:59]Matthew, it's Bradley.

[00:27:02]Bradley here with XYZ University. I just had time to get back to you here. I looks like you inquired about possibly um getting a doctorate in clinical psychology and becoming a a clinical psychologist, is that is that right?

[00:27:15]Yeah. No, yeah, I remember that, yeah.

[00:27:17]Okay. And where did you actually find us? Was it online? Was it like one of the that was a Facebook or something like >> Oh, through LinkedIn. Yeah, a lot of people, you know, find us through LinkedIn. Uh so, I mean, this call is pretty basic, really just to get a better sense of, you know, where you're at now just in terms of your career and then see where you might want to go forward from here. Would Would that help?

[00:27:38]Yeah, that that that makes sense, yeah.

[00:27:40]Okay. Well, say say a bit more uh Matthew about you know, where you're at in with your career, your life, and education.

[00:27:46]Say Can you ask that question again? I'm sorry. Yeah, say say tell me a bit more about where you're at right now with, you know, your career, your life, and your education.

[00:27:54]Yeah, well, I I have a I have my master's, obviously, and then um and I'm looking to you know, I'm looking to more so just increase my practice. I have my own practice, which is doing pretty well. I feel like it's I feel like it's doing pretty well overall.

[00:28:07]And yeah, I'm just thinking about, okay, what is the next like what would the next step be? It just seemed like it would the next step seems pretty obvious to go ahead and do that as well. Yeah, well, it sounds sounds like that's probably decent, and it's like you're you're doing good work and you enjoy it.

[00:28:20]And what what's making you feel like, you know, maybe you want to get to that next level and and get your doctorate?

[00:28:26]Uh yeah, I mean, I don't feel like I don't know, I just feel like if you're like I feel like if you're at a point now where you know, you're making good money, things are decent, like why not why not try to just go to the next level there?

[00:28:38]Mhm, yeah, sure. Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest reasons why I think a lot of people come to us is they're just kind of looking to scale their business, you know, get that that highest level doctoral degree. And so, suppose that that all that came to you, you know, you you got your doctorate, you're a clinical psychologist, you know, you're um you know, you had what you wanted.

[00:28:57]What would that look like? How would your life be different? What would How would change?

[00:29:03]Uh all right, pretty not not not bad, not bad. Like move through process like pretty well. I think there's definitely some gaps though.

[00:29:11]Um and in refining those or plugging those, you're going to have a much easier time towards the end. So, before I give any kind of like feedback though, uh like I want one thing that uh Rachel, you're there. Rachel, what's one thing you feel Bradley did well?

[00:29:27]He was very conversational.

[00:29:29]Yeah.

[00:29:30]I would agree. I think that's pretty conversational, for sure. What's um Joey, you you I think you've been here for a minute. Like uh what what's one thing you feel Bradley could improve on just outside looking in?

[00:29:40]Um maybe a little bit more confidence in the voice. Like could sound like it was conversational, but like a little bit of like uncertainty as well. So, maybe being a little bit more like a little bit more concise, a little bit more confidence.

[00:29:56]Yeah, okay. I think uh is it what what caused you to feel like maybe he was a little uncertain?

[00:30:03]Um or maybe a lot of upward inflection at the end of like sentences and statements.

[00:30:10]Okay. I don't know if I would have like 100% agree with that. I think that maybe if it's possible that Bradley's got quite a cool, calm, collected, quite a composed tone that that that maybe that felt a little that way. Like Matthew, would you agree? I wouldn't say that's something that stood out to me to be obvious.

[00:30:28]I think I think the avatar that he was talking to, like that like that's it's pretty pretty normal. I don't feel like I felt it.

[00:30:36]Yeah, yeah. So, um I think up until like this the the definitely the way in which you're moving through your process, like I liked Bradley. I think that I can see where uh we might be missing some of the important outcomes that you're going to want before we get to the end of the call and it started really about the frame.

[00:30:56]So, I didn't mind the you know, it looks like you responded to something and here's sort of the reason why, how did you come you know, find us?

[00:31:05]Like that was all fine. And to Rachel's point, quite conversational. Um I think the transition between the I yeah, like a lot of people find us on LinkedIn and into your frame was a little bit abrupt and then the frame was quite vague.

[00:31:20]Um so, I think that yeah you know, because think about the frame. The frame isn't just like a like the frame is sort of like hey, here's how this call is going to go.

[00:31:30]Yeah, that's one piece of it and like I don't know if we're going to do that adequately just in way the way in which we like uh articulated it. Like the start of it where it's like you know, call today is really pretty simple. It's more an opportunity for me to understand of like you know, where you're at now with your in in you know, in terms of your career and really where you're looking to go. Just to see what that gap looks like and and and if we can help. And then towards the end of the call, if I feel like we can and you feel like this maybe ticks the boxes is you know, far as what you feel like you you might need and we can talk about some possible next steps from there. Would that Would that help?

[00:32:12]Okay. And then you could even slide in our a um you know, what where you're at now, what you're looking for, even even some of the reasons why you might be looking to kind of transit make make get transition in the first place. So, I can see the you know, understanding why why they would even want to do this in the first place. And so now, what do I really do? I'm really kind of laying out like here it Yeah, this is exactly how the conversation's going to like going to go.

[00:32:39]And then um like where do we get an understanding of like what he's looking for?

[00:32:45]When do we even ask When do we ask that question?

[00:32:49]Yeah, I mean that's normally I I do that in solution awareness because uh yeah, situation is just kind of like what he's at What is What is up to you now? Problem awareness. So, like what's making >> that was kind of like give me an overview of where you're at in your career, in your life, like very very vague. And so, I think what would make it easier for you is if like if we just do a really quick role play. Matthew, can you be be the same prospect again?

[00:33:14]Um [snorts] I would I would do it something like similar to to this. I'll just pick up from the frame because I had no real issue with the before that.

[00:33:22]Um yeah, so look Matthew, just so you're aware, today's call is pretty simple. Uh it's really just an opportunity for me to kind of understand like more about where you're at in terms of career now, really what you're looking for, you know, where you're looking to go with your career as well as like next level and kind of what that gap looks like. Even some of the reasons why you might be looking to make that transition and you know, get your what is it, psychology doctorate or whatever in the first place. Just to see if we can help.

[00:33:50]And then towards the end, if you feel like hey, this might be what I'm looking for to sort of take my career to that next level, then we can like talk about some possible next steps. Would that Would that help?

[00:34:00]Yeah, I thought that would help. Okay.

[00:34:01]And um so, I I wanted to ask as well like uh what I guess what what was it that you saw or heard? What did you read on LinkedIn that made you feel like you know, hey, might be worth looking into this into this funnel?

[00:34:15]Yeah, I saw that um I saw that there was like a testimonial or there was somebody who was talking about you guys and that how they grew their Yeah, they grew their practice from where it was to where they wanted to be, but they just needed to like go through a process and be able to do that as well. All right. And so, I don't I don't want to make any assumptions, but are you at a point where you're potentially looking to kind of grow your practice, take it from like kind of where you are now and then and somewhere you want to be or what is it you're looking for?

[00:34:43]Yeah, no, that would make sense. Yeah, for make sense. And like why like just high level, like why why is that?

[00:34:51]Uh yeah, because I feel like I'm kind of at a point now where I've been consistently hitting what I have been hitting over the months and I feel like I'm ready for the next >> Can I ask like like as far as where you're at now in your practice now?

[00:35:04]Yeah, it's about 100k per per month.

[00:35:06]Yeah. And you know, I just essentially been hitting that for the past year. So, I just feel like it's you know, a lot of what what what I need to do to put myself in the best position to get to the next level.

[00:35:15]Yeah, got it. And then so, all right. So, we'll pull up we'll I want to pull up there and and just draw your attention where all right, cool. I did get confirmation from this human at least that I want to grow my practice.

[00:35:28]All right, sweet. Now, I can go like a a why or like in what way? Cuz grow is kind of vague. Like what it grow in what way? Like you know, business owners are reaching out to us every day saying they want to want to grow their practice. Like in what way?

[00:35:43]What What do you What do you mean? Oh, well, we'll increase our revenue or something like that. All right, cool.

[00:35:47]So, where are you at now? So, Matthew because kind of vague and like oh, I've you know, been consistently hitting this point for X period of time. And so, I immediately just transition to situation which is like well, what's what point is that?

[00:35:59]100k.

[00:36:01]Okay.

[00:36:02]And then it's like how long have we been at that point for? The last year.

[00:36:08]Yeah, I don't I don't I mean, this is where some industry knowledge can be helpful. I don't know if there's anything else sort of per se about their current practice that I might want to know at least at this point. I feel like I'm pretty happy with that even because he's indicated I want to grow.

[00:36:23]I know the point that he's at now, how long he's been at that point. So, now I want to start to understand like okay, so what um you know, I suppose if we looking back over the past 12 months in your practice, I mean, what are some of the potential reasons that you feel like maybe we've been in your words like stuck at that that 100k a month mark as opposed to you know, progressing beyond that point to where you want to be.

[00:36:49]Yeah, or you can kind of get that rough outcome and go okay. So, I mean, how does that compare to where you'd really want to be in your practice or you know, what you'd want to be generating every month in your practice if you could. Cuz now I've got a bit of an A and B, don't I? And then I can transition into okay.

[00:37:07]So, what's like what what do you feel when you look back or when you're looking at you know, when you're looking at your business, what do you feel has potentially kept you at 100k for the last year instead of being able to kind of make that transition to whatever it is at this point. Like what's what's behind that?

[00:37:25]And then I can go into the whole like uh that's where you're going to start to get that understanding of like okay, well, what's the real reason he wants to make the transition in the first place.

[00:37:41]Does that make sense? Yeah, sort of. The The thing though is is I mean, in this in this business, it's seldom is it a they'll tell me like I'm making this amount of money and then I want to scale to this amount of money. It's It's much It's It's Oh, why? Because most people don't go into psychology for the money.

[00:38:01]Um [laughter] most I mean, it it can include that, um but getting a doctorate doesn't necessarily auto automatically leads to more money.

[00:38:11]It I mean, it can, but more more often it's it's in order to like do other things. Like for example, like a lot of people will want to like be a professor or they'll >> My My point My point is is that is that with the role play that we did, I feel like we sped through to like solution awareness really quickly without understanding like what what are you actually looking for, where are you now, and then okay, cool. What is it like what's the reason we're looking to maybe make a change in the first place.

[00:38:44]Like that's what I want to get out of my discovery before I go further.

[00:38:53]You know? What are you looking for?

[00:38:54]>> if I don't cuz if I don't get any of that, I can appreciate that I might get to consequence and go okay. So, what if you don't like uh you know, what what if you don't make this transition from where you are and and acquire your doctorate or whatever, like where does that lead? And they're like nowhere bad because if we again, if I bring you back to this, it's like this is the state that we're in potentially.

[00:39:19]Like even if it is a higher level state of neutrality, there's a lack of urgency.

[00:39:26]You know, and and I might not be and neutrality means like there's no emotional attachment to the outcome. And so, if I'm going through this whole conversation that I'm having with you going it would be kind of nice to get my doctorate, then if we get to the end and now you're talking about time and effort and financial resources that I need to allocate to make this transition, I'm weighing that up against is it worth it?

[00:39:51]And all right, well, look, let me think about it. I don't know for sure if I really want to go through the extra study and this and that. Like you know, like I said, I'm at a pretty good level in my business now. So, yeah, I mean, leave it with me and I'll I'll kind of get clear on is this something I actually want to do and I'll come back to you.

[00:40:11]Because like where I am now, I'm saying to you like, oh, like eh, it wouldn't be that bad if I just keep doing what I'm doing now. But that's a problem because that means there's like no urgency.

[00:40:21]There's no real desire to actually change the situation. I haven't had enough.

[00:40:26]Okay, but the questions that you suggested were what are you looking for, what's making you want to change, and then what was the other one?

[00:40:34]Yeah, so I need to start with the what are you looking for? Like what's You know, different people reach out to us for different reasons when they potentially actually looking to uh get their their doctorate. What what's kind of the what's kind of the reason for you?

[00:40:49]Okay.

[00:40:50]Oh, well, it's I want to grow my business. Or it might be um I don't know what something else they might say, Bradley.

[00:40:56]What are some of the common reasons?

[00:40:58]Yeah, I want to be a clinical supervisor. I want to, you know, >> Why is that?

[00:41:03]Well, because, you know, I really, you know, enjoy teaching and uh I want to hand on the tools of the trade to the next generation of clinicians and I can't do that without a PhD.

[00:41:14]Okay, got it. So, even that, if I just stopped at the first one, vague AF. But that next one, what does that potentially tell me about your driver?

[00:41:25]It might be impact. It might be legacy.

[00:41:28]Mhm. [clears throat] And in fact, so that actually did come up. He even said that very word is exactly. He said that when it was when I when I asked him like you know, about uh I think it was I forget if it was solution or movement solution, but that actually came. He said, you know, I want to have a greater legacy, uh have a bigger impact on mental health.

[00:41:47]>> Okay, cool. So, then like I I mean, just so I understand from your perspective, suppose that things just carry on the way that they are.

[00:41:54]You know, you you don't you don't cuz things are you get you're doing all right as is.

[00:41:58]Like you know, you don't make that transition, you don't get your doctorate, and you don't put yourself in a position where you can have the level of impact that you really feel called to have on the next generation.

[00:42:08]And the next 5 years, 10 years, 20 years go by, you're looking back and you're like, I never did that.

[00:42:16]What would that kind of mean or represent to you in in your mind?

[00:42:20]Well, yeah, I mean, it's it it would just feel I would feel like, you know, a little bit of a failure because I could have done something that was really unanimous and good, but I I basically >> get I'm going to after moving on to to the next person in here, but that's like that's where I want to get that's that's the feedback that I'm attempting to give is like if I just sprint through to like, oh, yeah, how would that change things? And I don't kind of understand, I don't have some insight like what that driver is. And then I ask a very generic consequence question like, oh, what happens if you don't get your doctorate?

[00:42:52]It's like, oh, I'm not going to die.

[00:42:54]Things won't be that bad. But if that person's driver is more about like I'm like I'm happy with where I'm at, but like I feel you know, it's like self-actualization almost if we think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Like I'm at that point where I've got certain needs taken care of.

[00:43:09]Now now for me it's about like legacy and it's about impact.

[00:43:13]Yeah, if that's what that person's sort of driver is, and then I'm like, all right, well, you don't do that.

[00:43:20]You don't make that happen.

[00:43:23]And you, you know, you've got to accept that almost. Like what what would that be like? What would that mean or or or represent to you?

[00:43:32]And then you're going to get better answers like that. So, you could even just start with making sure that we're asking the appropriate consequence question. Cuz that's something that I see a lot. Like a consequence question, imagine it like I've built this future vision. I've understood this new reality that they want and why it's important to them. And then the consequence question is pulling the rug out from underneath them.

[00:43:56]Okay, suppose 6 months from now instead of that being your reality, your reality is this instead.

[00:44:03]Because we've just stayed on the current trajectory.

[00:44:06]And that's what kind of creates that like ah, that would be that would be awful.

[00:44:12]And so, you know, without listening to a call, which we can certainly do if you've got, you know, we can show a clip at clip next time. Um that is is a really common error that I that I see sales reps make is they they ask the wrong consequence question. They don't take the context that they've just gathered from that future state and what that will mean to them emotionally, and then imagine like if I was to ask that consequence question in a way that implied like I'm pulling the rug out from underneath them.

[00:44:42]You never have that that you just articulated to me in great detail.

[00:44:49]Yeah. What would that be like? Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[00:44:52]I wish I I wish I would have thought of that because if I would have made that connection between when he disclosed that he was like worried about not like I'm going to make a big impact and then I should have like >> Yeah. put that into the consequence and then it would make it more powerful consequence. And so, but that's got Well, I got to say don't don't rush. You know, no one said that you had to go through boss. Like take your time. I really want to know at the top of the call even just at a higher level. Like what is it you're looking for? Like why?

[00:45:18]And before I'm kind of out of my discovery, like I I want to feel like there is uh like it's time to make a change. It's like, all right, cool. Then we carry on.

[00:45:30]So, make sure you feel clear on like clear on that. And it'll just make it easier for you to get to that point, Bradley, where you can ask a really, really solid consequence question. Okay?

[00:45:41]Got it? Cool.

[00:45:43]Uh Thanks. And then yeah, feel free to bring a call. Often times it's like role play or a call is way easier to get the context I need. Yeah, for sure. All right, jump on, Angel. How can I help?

[00:45:53]How's it going, Laura?

[00:45:55]Good.

[00:45:56]Good. Good to see you. What's up? So, last time I was on, I think it was like 3 weeks ago, you were speaking about like the importance of the pitch.

[00:46:04]Mhm. And I wanted some advice on that.

[00:46:08]I I I feel like that's probably one of the areas where sometimes I struggle the most and obviously that's when we're actually selling, right? So, uh I'm in Committed right now. I'm trying to figure out normally how, you know, to like make them the offer in a way where they're really excited about it. I'm starting normally with like permission, right? Like so, okay, like before I walk you through everything like I recommend like would you be open to hearing like what's the best plan? Well, firstly firstly, like I'm I mean, like they've had so many conversations now that that there is like a structure that for lack of better words like works. And then I would number two definitely be listening to the top performers and okay, well, how are they pitching? Cuz if a wheel rolls pretty well already, like why why reinvent it? You know what I mean?

[00:46:53]Just like look to what they're doing.

[00:46:55]And then I think the biggest place to start before changing a pitch is just in how we're delivering it. So, if you think about the type of avatar that you're commonly speaking to in a company like Committed Coaches, you imagine the type of person that is.

[00:47:14]Yeah, what they would want, what their concerns might might might be. Like how how might I need to position this pitch to cause them to go, oh my god, this is exactly what I want.

[00:47:29]Yeah, now to give you uh I guess to steer you in the right direction, it would be like I I like think about the type of person that would buy weight loss supplements. Not to cast judgment, but just to matter-of-factly like what might we be able to say about a person that decides that the best course of action to lose a significant amount of weight is to buy some is to buy some like weight loss pills.

[00:47:58]What type of solution might they be looking for?

[00:48:01]A quick fix.

[00:48:03]Mhm. Anything else?

[00:48:05]An easy way.

[00:48:07]Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Now, I'm not uh again, they're assumptions, okay? Cuz maybe they've tried a time million really, really, really difficult things and I don't know, maybe they're like, oh, maybe this could work, right? But but yes, there are typically some things that we'll end up finding out about the person and it's like, okay, well, what how does that mean I have to position that the pitch? So, if I get and I'm you're going to get more of an understanding through the conversation as well. But let's suppose we confirm that assumption is like true where it's like they've not really ever tried anything. They've tried some pills or some shakes. Like those kinds of things. We get an understanding of, okay, this is a person that has been in pursuit of a quick fix and easy option.

[00:48:50]Then like I don't want them coming into the program like with those same beliefs. Like I do need to make sure that they're aware that like this is not that. But it doesn't mean that I have to make it seem like it's a 20-ft wall that they're going to have to conquer and all that like they're climbing Mount Everest.

[00:49:08]Because there's a saying goes that sell them what they want, give them what they need. So, like your job is just to get them over the 12-ft wall, get them into the hands of the expert help, and then they will kind of take care of them like from there. So, a way that I might say that is like, uh now, I mean, I'm not saying that this is going to be rainbows and and and butterflies and just like cruising. Like it like it's going to take a little bit of work. You know that, right? Yeah, yeah, I know that. But at the end of the day, if we set you up with something that is like like impossibly difficult or overnight we try to you know get you to make this this change from kind of the things that we've been doing into into everything is different. I mean how well is that likely to work? How are you going to be able to stick to that?

[00:49:55]Like probably probably not. All right.

[00:49:57]And so like the whole point of this is yeah, we're going to make some changes but at the end of the day the plan you can follow and stick to is better than the plan that you can't. And so the most important part is just like helping you to helping to make this change and this transition feel as easy as as possible.

[00:50:20]All right. So that's just off the top of my head, but do you see what I'm doing?

[00:50:23]If I'm like all right, I know this person uh I'm going to trigger fear if I'm talking about macros and and I'm going all in depth and we're going to change this, we're going to change this, we're going to change this. I'm going to freak them out. And then that's not in their best interest, is it? So definitely want to imply that there's going to be some changes at times. It might feel a little hard or uncomfortable.

[00:50:43]Yeah, but just remember you're not you're not doing this on your own and and like our job is to make that feel as easy as possible but just one step at a time. And if you ever need us, we're there. So this person is kind of like okay you know, there's going to be some changes but like yeah, that's true.

[00:51:02]I'm not going to be doing this on my own and okay, they're going to have a plan for me and right? So that's where I would start.

[00:51:08]Is not in changing the structure but but based on this person that I'm speaking to, what might I need to emphasize in order for them to feel like this feels like exactly what I need.

[00:51:23]You know, if someone's fearful, I know I need to make sure that I I double down and emphasize like certainty and support.

[00:51:31]You know, if they're afraid then like hey like we're there every step of the way. You're never on your own. You're never going to feel lost or overwhelmed because like we're going to be there for you. Do you know what I mean? Like yeah. So that's where I would start.

[00:51:46]Okay. And then come back to you with feedback on that. Okay.

[00:51:50]>> Cuz those are the thing that's where you can just tailor your pitch without you know either structure's there but I'm just going to tailor that to them.

[00:51:57]Yeah, that that's pretty much I that's what I wanted to understand on that part. Like you know, I I I followed their script to a to a huge extent. You know, obviously I add my personality because there's words that I'm not going to use. The only thing I've been trying to do with the pitch has been like you know, okay pillar number one, you know, nutrition, you know, la la la. And you know how you mentioned that you like this this and that. Well, that's why. So that's how I'm trying to personalize it all the time with the okay. So you know how you mentioned that you in the past you tried this. Well, like what we do is going to be custom for you you know foods that you like, foods that you enjoy. That way you actually stick to a plan and blah blah blah.

[00:52:29]Yeah. Yeah. That that's where I would start. And then just take note of what potential problems you're encountering as a result of that. And then let's just solve those. But I think like that's where I'd always um start. Is how can I speak to the things that they want and also to the things that they don't want. So they're just like ah this feels again this feels exactly what I need.

[00:52:55]All right. Cuz that's the feedback that I used to get when I'd ask is that the right answer? That's how I know when I'm nailing my pitch. Am I getting that like F yes buying or not. And if you ever get hesitation, call it out. Like hey, I mean you don't sound so sure which is okay. Like what's behind that? And then that in of itself is very very helpful feedback. Because you're going to start to notice pattern oh well, I'm just not sure about X. And if you get that a little bit it's like oh I've got a pattern. All right. Let's make sure that I take care of that moving forward. Yeah? All right. I'll I'm going to bounce to Adrian make sure I get his questions answered. I can always come back. Adrian, how can I help?

[00:53:33]Hey Laura, how you doing?

[00:53:35]Good.

[00:53:36]Awesome. Uh so I have three questions.

[00:53:38]Hopefully we can get this all all of them like quick hits.

[00:53:41]Um but as of lately, right? So I've been missing a few sales just like 100 or 200 off. So literally like I just got off of sale sales call and she said that she could afford like to put down 1,500. But like our minimum is 1,700. Like what would you suggest I do um to try to like I guess bridge that gap. Cuz like I really want to say like 200. But how how how do we arrive at 1,500 though in the first place? Was it like what could you afford to do today or how do we get to 1,500? Exactly. So I wanted to see what was in her budget and I kind of felt like where my mistake was instead of me just saying like hey, can we do a two or three pay? I gave her that power, right?

[00:54:19]I gave her like hey, what does that look like for you? And then she just dropped it.

[00:54:24]Yeah. Which you can but even if like let's say the way I went it it'd be like okay. Well, actually that that's we can we can we're pretty close that's that's pretty close to to something that we can work with.

[00:54:36]Um can can can I make a suggestion?

[00:54:40]Sure. So like if if you're in a position where you feel like 1,500 is manageable I mean 1,700 is the minimum that we'd need to be able to like get you set up and X and Y and Z and and and start moving towards the goal. So now I can appreciate you know you you threw sort of 1,500 at me but do you feel like do you feel like it'd be impossible for us to stretch that a little to to 1,700 and and and you know, can shake hands or like where where where are you at? Yeah, it's like we're freaking 200 off. So that's the thing. All of typically from what I hear, they all say like it's just a stretch. It's just them saying that it's a stretch. None of them say that they Right. It's a stretch. Like what's what's what's the I don't get it. What's the problem with that? And that's what I'm thinking. But then like that that little bit of difference well, I I have but that little bit of difference is telling them like oh, I need to think about it now for a few hundred bucks.

[00:55:39]So I'm thinking like maybe I'm saying something wrong or um like I'm not sure what to say at that point. You know what I mean?

[00:55:46]I feel like I'd have maybe I have to I have to hear more but I I I think you know, or or an example maybe bring a cool clip or something like that. But it's like you could also because it might be easier is just go to them with like a okay. Well, I mean if we were to you know, and just like you can you control where the call goes a little bit more than like give it to them and like hey, what could work with you? Cuz I mean it's always a tough one too if they're like oh $200 and you're like oh great. Well, that's very long way back way from where we can work. So I think like what's generally easier is like you just dictate like take a little bit more leadership and let's say they're like yes, I'm open to talking about some ways that we can make it work. It's like okay. Well, kudos to you for you know, being willing to to to to be you know, resourceful to look at ways that we can make this happen as opposed to being like you know, what do people do? Oh well, I guess this is my reality now.

[00:56:39]You know what I mean? So um you know, I mean one of the ways in which we can maybe break this up but you let me know if this would would actually help you is is we could potentially break it into X payments of X dollars like you know, I mean would that work within your current budgetary constraints? You know?

[00:56:55]Sometimes even before that I might need to ask like uh how far off would you say that we are? Like just so I kind of know where to start as far as like what we might be able to do to help.

[00:57:03]You know, no [clears throat] judgment from me. You know what I mean? I've been in your shoes or we like uh or well, you know, we are we well away?

[00:57:11]Like you know what I mean? Or or are we kind of close? Like how far how far are we?

[00:57:16]>> [clears throat] >> And then just kind of take a little bit more control over how we inch the conversation forward but just make sure you've got from them at least initially where they're like yes, I want to do this. Like okay? Because what it is telling me if they're like oh if it's an extra $200 like I need to think about it. Like they're possibly [clears throat] not in that resourceful state. Okay. You know? And next time someone says to you like like I mean I could it's just it's a bit of a stretch so I don't know. It's like okay. So it's it's I mean it's a it's a little bit of a stretch. Um like what's what's the problem with that?

[00:57:53]What what what would what's so bad about that? I like that.

[00:57:57]Yeah.

[00:57:58]I could do that. Yeah. But I'll I'll I'll definitely show you >> It's like this entire journey is is you know, it's going to be a little bit of like a stretch.

[00:58:08]Okay. Yeah, that's more of my style. I like that. All right. I'm mindful of like I've got I've got that I've got another meeting in my head and so you know, jump back on and and I mean or if you DM me, let me know I'll be there.

[00:58:19]But I think like cool clips guys too really helpful. You're like cool, here's an example of where this problem happened.

[00:58:26]You know, cuz it's never what we think it was. It's not what never what we recall that it was. You know, we always remember happening a certain way and then we look at it and we're like oh okay, yeah that was a little bit different. Um all right. I've got to I've got to run guys but was that helpful? Did you you know, people with their hands up did you get what you need? Okay, sweet.

[00:58:44]Note down any questions, jump on the next training. Um I'm going to be away for a little bit over kind of mid-December through to mid-Jan um but then I'll be back and we'll get back in with you, okay? Uh all right. Catch you guys.

[00:58:56]Later.