‘Cape Fear’ Episode 8 RECAP: Going Under

[00:00:19]Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[00:00:23]>> I'm Rob Mahoney.

[00:00:24]>> Why are you shaking your head at me already?

[00:00:25]>> I didn't do anything.

[00:00:26]>> Episode 8 of Cape Fear.

[00:00:28]>> It is.

[00:00:29]>> Is that what you want to shake your head at?

[00:00:30]>> No. I'm very happy about this episode.

[00:00:32]>> El tiempo de Dios es perfecto.

[00:00:35]>> Wonderful.

[00:00:35]>> God's timing is perfect.

[00:00:37]>> Always.

[00:00:38]>> Always.

[00:00:39]Written by Alan Page Ariaga, directed by my guy Stephen Williams. He's a Lost director.

[00:00:45]And he also directed the incredible episode of Watchmen, This Extraordinary Being, the Nostalgia Trip episode.

[00:00:51]>> All [ __ ] timer.

[00:00:51]>> Well, what Stephen Williams was uh and I've talked to him a couple times about his his work on Lost and he's like, you know, they always call me for the for the water episodes. So, he he directed a lot of episodes where like people had to be like quite wet and stuff like that. So, like the pool opener of this episode, they're like they're like, "Let's get Stephen Williams in here. We got some pool stuff to do." So, yeah.

[00:01:13]Uh did you like this episode of television, Rob?

[00:01:15]>> so.

[00:01:16]>> Okay.

[00:01:16]>> Did you?

[00:01:17]>> I don't know.

[00:01:19]Um where can folks email us their thoughts on this episode?

[00:01:21]>> I'm so glad you asked.

[00:01:22]>> Yeah, you're welcome.

[00:01:23]>> They can always email us at [email protected].

[00:01:26]But, really you'd be doing us a solid and you'd make me personally happy. If you are emailing us about Cape Fear, the series, email us at [email protected].

[00:01:36]>> Did you see the email we got from our listener, Emma?

[00:01:38]>> No, what did it say?

[00:01:38]>> Uh so, the text is this. Saw this haunted scene while listening to F1 uh coverage this morning and had to share.

[00:01:44]And it's a bag of baby carrots that has been like ripped open and like strewn on the concrete.

[00:01:51]She just like >> It's upsetting.

[00:01:54]>> Pavement carrot.

[00:01:56]And she's like, "Look, a horror movie has happened." And she texts us about it. So, she mailed us about it. Thank you so much. Before I get into some other emails, it has been several episodes since Faith was bludgeoned to death, and yet no mention. Everyone's in jail.

[00:02:12]>> Yeah.

[00:02:13]>> Yet no one cares. The cops are quite busy in this episode, but nobody cares that Faith is dead.

[00:02:19]>> I thought for sure this was going to be the week we got the update, that as all the walls are closing in, right?

[00:02:24]>> Right.

[00:02:25]>> They're going to find Anna's prints because she handled >> Sticky bloody prints.

[00:02:28]>> everything at the murder scene.

[00:02:31]But no, did not happen.

[00:02:33]Will it happen?

[00:02:34]>> Uh Zach institutionalized, Tom in jail, Natalie in jail, but Anna free to marinate in the consequences. So, even if Max Kady knew that her like fingerprints, her sticky bloody fingerprints were all over the crime scene, he doesn't want her in jail. He wants her out and just sort of like >> It's true.

[00:02:52]>> you know, getting pickled in the misery that is uh you know, the brine that he has created.

[00:02:57]>> I don't like that at all. But, even if he does want her out pickling, >> Mhm.

[00:03:02]>> if her fingerprints are all over the place and the cops just show up and do the bare minimum of their job, won't they find her?

[00:03:08]>> I don't know that I think much of the cops that we get to spend time with in this episode.

[00:03:13]>> mixed. On the one hand, the cops are not always great. I would argue way too glib about the whole we just found a dismembered body in a pool situation.

[00:03:21]>> Like the glibest. But, this is a thing about Paul Schneider.

[00:03:24]He's the king of glib.

[00:03:26]>> is.

[00:03:26]>> So, yeah. He is dialed in. He can't dial it down.

[00:03:28]>> Glibbing out with uh with that, you know.

[00:03:31]>> Very much so. But, counterpoint, I would say to this to this point this series wants me to think one thing about Tom, and it is that he is the world's dumbest prosecutor. Like all of his maneuvers in attempting to hide the gun are among the stupidest things that have happened from any character on this show.

[00:03:48]>> I I guess possibly, but I I thought his like quick thinking lie when he was in there and he's like, "Where's the other gun gun, Tom?" He's like, "That pin's been misfiring since day one. I had sawed it off a while ago."

[00:03:58]>> After he fondled the gunpowder residue.

[00:04:01]Like, why?

[00:04:03]>> We just love to touch murder weapons here in the Bowden household. Um all right, so we got a bunch of emails from people. As you mentioned, we're sort of like a few episodes behind in our emails just because of the way we're recording these episodes. Um >> How do you feel about that, being untethered in time?

[00:04:20]>> I'm supportive of you and your work-life balance, and that is why we're here.

[00:04:24]>> I can I can feel the anxiety that we are not responding to emails promptly, and I just want to know I appreciate you.

[00:04:30]>> All right, Donna wrote in to say the Hyundai debate. My two cents is that Anna drives it to demonstrate that she works for a nonprofit. Poor form to drive up to visit a client in a in prison in a flashy car.

[00:04:41]>> It's a fair point.

[00:04:42]>> Okay. But also, you know, if you're like, I've I I want the best lawyer in the world, don't you like and that lawyer shows up in like a Jag, you're like, yeah. My lawyer is a Jag lawyer, you know?

[00:04:52]>> See, here's the thing, my lawyer should have been a Jag.

[00:04:54]>> Not Jag as in the TV show about >> I I would support that. If they show up in a Jag the car, I would think this lawyer is very impractical. They don't understand the maintenance costs that go into a Jag Jaguar specifically.

[00:05:07]>> Jaguar. What's the most practical yet flashy spendy car?

[00:05:12]Would you be like, that person's sensible yet also has a lot of cash to burn?

[00:05:15]>> I feel like it's got to be a Toyota. No free ads, but I feel like it definitely is.

[00:05:18]>> understanding the prompt at all.

[00:05:20]Hayley wrote in to uh to do some eye color debate.

[00:05:26]Hayley's like, "I think Max Katie's eyes are decidedly green rather than blue. In an interview, Bardem said they were meant to look predatory like a panther, but I think their greenness and the green that they are all engulfed in throughout the whole show with the surrounding foliage represents Katie's imposing presence. The green-blue contrast was especially noticeable in the most recent episode, two episodes ago. As Katie starts to infiltrate their family, we see more apparent green with the kids. Natalie totes a green bag.

[00:05:50]Zach wears a green shirt while Tom and Anna both wear bright blue shirts that match their own piercing blue eyes while they walk over to Katie's house to confront him. We have been tracking this sort of like green color coding and and what exactly it means, but um I don't know that I'm willing to conclusively say what color his eyes are. Blue green?

[00:06:09]>> For one, it's hard to tell depending on how each scene is lit.

[00:06:12]>> Yeah, the color grading on this show is >> all over the place. Yeah.

[00:06:16]>> And I I will say from my eye, I don't know that the the coloring around the Bodens has been super consistent. I think it's edged from blue to green back and forth kind of all over the place. In this episode, we get a lot of green for example.

[00:06:28]Natalie very green. Their house is obviously very green. I want to say there's like a the blanket that Anna curls up with on the couch is like extremely almost like lime green.

[00:06:38]>> Well, maybe that means like Max Katie's just taken over.

[00:06:41]>> It's true.

[00:06:42]>> What's the decor like at Melissa & Adam the restaurant that he's trying to get off the ground?

[00:06:46]>> it was tasteful.

[00:06:47]>> Yeah.

[00:06:48]>> Uh >> Elegant?

[00:06:49]>> Elegant, not overly showy, but like also kind of generic hospital lobby.

[00:06:53]>> Yeah, I I thought it was quite generic like looking. Max Katie, I don't like your restaurant. Okay. Brandon says pertaining to the acid trip scene, I too agree this is the best Amy Adams has been all season. I think the whole cast did a great job, but Amy Adams has definitely tripped in her lifetime more than once probably. She absolutely nailed it. Don't ask me how I know.

[00:07:12]I thought Amy Adams was really good in this episode.

[00:07:15]>> The the sort of like drunk Well, maybe just like um you know, under the influence of some sort of substance acting from Amy Adams cuz I think the drunken tearful uh scene with Natalie was really really good. Genuine like actually good. Like from a better show.

[00:07:31]>> Some of the best Anna and Nat stuff we've gotten all season for sure.

[00:07:34]>> Absolutely.

[00:07:35]Uh a number of our listeners wrote in to uh let us know if we didn't already that money means peanuts in Spanish.

[00:07:41]>> love this.

[00:07:41]>> Okay. So, did you know that already?

[00:07:43]>> not.

[00:07:44]>> Yeah, I I forgot.

[00:07:45]>> Despite your impeccable pronunciation.

[00:07:47]>> That's that's a grade school Spanish, and those and like little things like peanuts don't stay with you.

[00:07:54]Also, probably not impeccable. All right. Emily, who's worked as a nurse in the ER for the last 15 years, says, "Yes, they do do some brain surgeries uh with the person awake conscious. The purpose is that the neurosurgeon can ensure that certain parts of the brain responsible for speech, language processing, etc. remain intact while they do surgery. In fact, they have done brain surgery on people having them play a musical instrument to make sure that they don't do any damage to specific parts of their brain that control coordinated movement or other important neurological functions." Um what if you can't play a musical instrument?

[00:08:27]>> I think you just got to plunk it out.

[00:08:29]>> Okay.

[00:08:29]>> They'll give you a little keyboard. You play chopsticks, and you keep it moving.

[00:08:32]>> can do Heart and Soul.

[00:08:33]>> That's the thing.

[00:08:33]>> Yeah.

[00:08:34]>> That's all you have to do.

[00:08:34]>> like a 5-hour surgery, do I have to play Heart and Soul for like 5 hours?

[00:08:38]>> can you bust out Für Elise real quick?"

[00:08:40]Like Moonlight Sonata, you can handle You can handle the melody.

[00:08:43]>> I love Moonlight Sonata.

[00:08:45]>> Well, probably a quite a basic [ __ ] >> I do find this very distressing, though.

[00:08:49]I understand the human brain is endlessly complex. There are by my estimation, countless neurons and dendrites and things like firing off up there.

[00:08:59]>> Dendrites?

[00:09:00]>> I think it's a part of a neuron, so I think that might be redundant, but still, there's a lot happening. I would still like to believe, if somebody's going to be cutting up up there, they know >> Snip and dendrites.

[00:09:10]>> where to not snip, yeah, to let me continue to play the piano, which I don't do.

[00:09:15]>> Um but the viola.

[00:09:19]>> I did, once upon a time.

[00:09:21]Did you Did you hear about like the Mary Steenburgen musical story? Do you know what I'm talking about?

[00:09:25]>> No.

[00:09:25]>> She underwent some kind of Mary Steenburgen, the legendary actor, >> Yeah.

[00:09:29]>> underwent some kind of surgery, Oscar-winning, Oscar-winning in part because of the original song she wrote, had no musical capability, underwent some kind of surgery, woke up with like >> What?

[00:09:40]>> the the music in her head.

[00:09:42]The ability to play music and write music.

[00:09:44]>> What?

[00:09:45]>> This is a real thing.

[00:09:47]>> I mean, okay.

[00:09:48]>> At least she that's by her telling it's a real thing.

[00:09:51]>> has an acting Oscar, is that >> She does, but she also for best original song, I believe. Or at least was nominated. Yeah, sorry.

[00:09:56]>> Okay, wild. Okay, wild. And then Ben wrote in to let us know about uh the popularity of Santeria, paganism, and Wicca in prison populations.

[00:10:05]>> Mhm.

[00:10:05]>> Ben has worked at the Books to Prisons program and and mentioned like cuz I you know, I I knew that like Christianity or Islam or a number of other faiths, like people are in prison, they're looking for, you know, they have questions, they need answers, they turn to faith and stuff like that. But uh this listener was saying that like of the books that he's been asked to give in this in Books to Prisons program that he's part of, dictionary, thesaurus, atlas, legal primer, followed by books on Wicca. So, uh the witches are thriving in prison and and I love to hear it. But then then also a lot of these practices of Satanism or Wicca or Santeria or whatever the case may be are not standard. So, you know, if we're like, "Hey, what is this jailhouse Santeria that he's practicing here?"

[00:10:45]Like that's sort of the point, I guess.

[00:10:47]>> That one's interesting to me because, granted, my understanding of witchcraft and Wicca are pretty limited, but I always think of it as more of like >> about dendrites.

[00:10:55]>> I all about them.

[00:10:57]Uh I think of it as more of like a spiritual connection than a moral framework. Is that misguided?

[00:11:03]>> Um >> Part of the appeal of I understand it for someone in prison is understanding their place in the universe, is maybe looking for redemption through religion, things like that.

[00:11:11]>> But place in the universe, that's absolutely Wicca. That because it's more like naturalistic.

[00:11:16]>> Yes.

[00:11:16]>> But it is absolutely sort of like and and there are divine powers inside of I'm not a witch.

[00:11:21]>> But I Witch-adjacent.

[00:11:23]>> I know many witches and they have they have like, you know, depending on what kind of Wicca you practice, there are like gods that they believe in. So, I think that's sort of like divine order and sort of like certainly the cycles of nature and all of that sort of stuff, I think.

[00:11:35]>> That makes sense.

[00:11:36]>> Uh is part of all of that. A lot of our listeners wrote in to make sure that we knew that when Max and and we were perhaps both blinded by uh the guns on Max Katie when he was cooking up pig pig's ears, but that the soundtrack to this cooking experiment was Steely Dan's song 19.

[00:11:54]>> Yeah.

[00:11:54]>> So, Steely Dan uh very much in our hearts and souls uh this year between Euphoria and this and also 19, what a what a track to pick. You called it, you were right. Romeo did attack someone and it was Anna's shitty dad, Brandon.

[00:12:08]>> Yeah.

[00:12:09]>> Is that who you wanted him to attack?

[00:12:11]>> I don't know that I wanted him to attack. I want better things for Romeo, period. I want him to frolic in the wilderness somewhere and live a peaceful life away from Max.

[00:12:18]>> If the Bodens are successful in eradicating Max Katie from their life, >> Yes.

[00:12:23]>> do you want them to adopt Romeo?

[00:12:25]>> No, these people suck. They're bad pet owners. See many {slash} peanut butter.

[00:12:30]Like even even peanut butter's like, "Get me up out of here."

[00:12:35]>> Um all right, we open with the therapy hour with Zach and Dr. Patrick Fischler, M.D.

[00:12:40]>> Yeah, how'd it go?

[00:12:41]>> He stabbed your dad with a pair of gardening shears. So, this is a nice confirmation for you uh not as like not that you were worried, but like it was not the aforementioned big-ass knife. It was gardening shears, but that was Chekhov's gardening equipment that we saw outside of Max Katie's house uh when the Bodens walked up. There was like that wheelbarrow >> and I was like, "What's that doing there? Is he burying bodies? I don't know." But it but like the gardening shears were right there for Zach to use to stab Tom in the back. So, >> Very effective for stabbing.

[00:13:10]>> Yeah, therapy doesn't seem like it's going great.

[00:13:11]>> No.

[00:13:12]>> We we on this podcast are very pro-therapy.

[00:13:15]>> Of course.

[00:13:16]>> Um Zach doesn't seem to be taken to it very well.

[00:13:19]>> good news is he's in it. The bad news is >> Yes.

[00:13:23]>> he's only kind of in it cuz maybe AI Slop Son is in it instead.

[00:13:27]>> Okay, you're back on possession there.

[00:13:28]>> I don't know.

[00:13:29]I DON'T I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE ANYMORE.

[00:13:31]>> final shot in this episode is him taking his meds, but he's seeing AI slob son.

[00:13:36]>> let me ask you that before we even get that far. Did he take those meds?

[00:13:39]>> Well, I don't know.

[00:13:40]>> There's a bit like did he take them out of the cup and like hide them under something on the table?

[00:13:45]>> I feel like having seen many films and television shows set in mental institutions, we have to come up with a better system than the paper Dixie cup that we just walk away and leave the meds there and assume that the patient's going to take them.

[00:14:00]>> There are too many pillows and crevices on that couch and there's too much stuff on the coffee table, frankly, to just be giving them loose pills.

[00:14:07]>> a pill into >> to at least wait and see if he took the pills or not. That orderly or whatnot did not seem terribly concerned.

[00:14:14]>> It's a very Zach like episode and I'm kind of okay with that.

[00:14:17]>> I like Joey Anders, but like I'm kind of like his storyline isn't going anywhere interesting right now for me. Um and and by the end of this episode like we've got two more episodes to go, if I'm counting correctly. And by the end of this episode it's the Anna show.

[00:14:31]>> I would think.

[00:14:32]>> Everyone else is in an institution or another and Anna's on the road.

[00:14:36]>> think we're going to see some inside those institutions and I'm I'm looking forward to that too, but I agree Zach feels the most deprioritized at this point.

[00:14:43]>> want the Naveen and Natalie ship fest.

[00:14:45]>> Badly.

[00:14:45]>> Okay.

[00:14:47]>> So badly.

[00:14:49]>> Ship fest 2026.

[00:14:50]>> much looking forward to that like full on cage fight whenever it comes. Okay.

[00:14:55]Uh but yeah, like I I think Joey Anders has been pretty good all season.

[00:14:59]>> Mhm.

[00:14:59]>> He's being asked to do a lot here and I he's going for it. I will say it is tough to swerve with the dual personality type acting and still stay on the road. And there are points at which the car is about to careen into the past. And the writing is not helping. Like the you will start to feel like yourself again. Yeah, but what self? Oh, brother.

[00:15:21]>> Oh, boy.

[00:15:22]>> Come on.

[00:15:23]>> Um all right, what about what about dialogue-less sequences like Natalie finding something in the pool?

[00:15:31]>> Pretty good.

[00:15:31]>> Pretty great.

[00:15:32]>> The the leery like looking through the window as she's getting into the pool made me very uncomfortable. Mission accomplished.

[00:15:39]>> But at least she's wearing a swimsuit.

[00:15:41]One of our listeners or someone pointed out like that earlier when when she uh That's not water. When she goes to get a liquor store, she is she is laying out in the sun in denim overalls which is yeah, which is just not But at least now she's in a swimsuit. But maybe she's never going to go back in the water.

[00:15:58]Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

[00:16:00]>> I can't imagine she would.

[00:16:02]>> No, I think that swimming pool is donzo for them.

[00:16:04]>> She's she's a little all over the place this episode, but I think it's a little understandable considering she found a dismembered corpse in her swimming pool.

[00:16:13]>> Can I with full respect for Ray Rollins, a character we we really enjoyed and wanted to see more of.

[00:16:18]>> Yep.

[00:16:19]>> Can I offer up a suggestion for what the card should be on the board for this?

[00:16:24]>> Is it rest in pieces?

[00:16:25]>> No.

[00:16:27]>> What is it?

[00:16:29]>> Shark-cuterie?

[00:16:32]You hate it?

[00:16:34]>> Joe, what?

[00:16:36]Where is the shark?

[00:16:38]>> No, like charcuterie but it's Ray.

[00:16:40]Shark-cuterie.

[00:16:42]>> I thought you meant I thought you I thought you were making a double shark-ray pun. I was like, where's the shark in this? No. Well, it's shark-cuterie.

[00:16:49]>> It's It's shark-cuterie a char- charcuterie board. It's shark-cuterie board.

[00:16:53]>> Shark Yeah, you might be It's kind of splitting the difference on the consonant, honestly. I never thought about it this much, but you may be right.

[00:16:59]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:16:59]>> Shark-cuterie board. Shark- Yeah, it is shark. It is more shark.

[00:17:02]>> Shark-cuterie.

[00:17:04]I'm coming around, but I >> Okay, let's just >> I'm pun-skeptical.

[00:17:08]>> I I know you hate a pun.

[00:17:10]Let's just let it pickle for the rest of the >> Just let it float in the water and see where things come up. This is the best use of the photo neg. uh is is Natalie's thrashing around in the water and and it's all black and she's screaming. I thought that was fantastic. Steve Williams Get the water guy. Looks great.

[00:17:28]It's really pays off. This whole sequence is horrifying.

[00:17:32]I do have logistical questions. Okay, when did the carving happen? Don't know.

[00:17:37]Right. I mean clearly Max had the body close enough or went back for it at some point. I would maybe this is more evidence it wasn't the trunk. I think I'm pro it wasn't the trunk. What if he had the cooler in the trunk and then it suppressed the smell?

[00:17:51]But then he would have had to have chopped it up on site. Yeah. I don't feel like he had enough time to Well, I don't know how long that drug nap lasted, but like take a while. were me having injected a peach, I would not feel confident about the dosage levels, right? And so like I would want to get that body in the trunk as soon as possible. So I would not take the time to chop it up. But yes, the cooler might have helped with the smell.

[00:18:17]I I don't know that I needed to see this, but I do I do find myself thinking of The Americans and specifically how do you compress a body to fit into a suitcase that you can roll out the front door? It requires a lot of cracking a bone. A lot of cracking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in this case it was more chop.

[00:18:31]Yeah. So I can see how it all fits.

[00:18:34]But a cooler is famously like a floatational device.

[00:18:38]So you have to really weigh that thing down to get it to all the way to the bottom of a pool? Well, how about a whole body in inside of it? I think that's enough. Do you wish we got the outtakes of Max just like waiting into the pool at night? I kind of do.

[00:18:50]This and it's just like bobbing back up to the surface. he's a full-time schemer. And I would love to see like him all the times he has injected peaches just waiting for Natalie to get into his car. He's like, "God damn it, it's another [ __ ] Yeah, yeah, fruit is not cheap right now, you know?"

[00:19:06]To to zoom ahead and it's so true and it's stone fruit season, so we are very mindful of this. To zoom ahead to the the shooting incident that happens at the end of this episode.

[00:19:16]>> Yeah.

[00:19:17]>> I'm not a doctor.

[00:19:18]Clearly, if anyone spent time with us covering the pit.

[00:19:23]Do you feel like where Max Katie was like right here, right here, right here is like a specific part of the abdomen where there are no organs?

[00:19:31]Like, shoot me right here.

[00:19:33]>> seem aware.

[00:19:34]>> Yeah.

[00:19:34]>> I mean, he pointed it and then the nurse was like, "Thank god you got shot at exactly this spot because it dodged all your organs." At at minimum, he's >> dumb that he's like, I mean, obviously, he's goading her into shooting him and he's like, "Do it right here."

[00:19:49]If it were me, I would do it anywhere else than the place that this guy cuz I was I was trying to give Natalie some points in this episode. Yeah. Right?

[00:19:57]When she's on the phone with him and he's like he's like, "I don't know. Your parents would do anything to get me back." And she's like, "I don't believe you." And I was like, "Yes, thank you, Natalie. Like, thank you."

[00:20:07]Um And then, you know, she hears what Anna has to say about her experience with Max and she goes over there with the gun like none of his spells uh you know, his charm spells are working on her, but then like he gets her to shoot him and I'm just like, "Natalie, come the [ __ ] on."

[00:20:23]>> teenager. I'm not trying to give her points. I'm just saying of all the people doing ridiculous things on the show, the scared teenager to me is the most believable.

[00:20:31]This whole situation though did result into me what might be in the running for one of the funniest lines of the season, which is when after the shooting when Natalie is getting arrested and Anna's like, "What happened, baby? What happened?"

[00:20:43]>> I missed.

[00:20:43]>> I missed.

[00:20:44]>> I really wish this episode was just called I missed.

[00:20:47]>> Incredible.

[00:20:49]>> So good. I almost wish that was the button. I wish it had been I missed. Cut to friends.

[00:20:53]>> Yeah, let's get out of there.

[00:20:55]I don't need anything else.

[00:20:56]>> 10 out of 10.

[00:20:57]I really agree. So good. Let's go back to earlier this episode. Why go in chronological order? Natalie visiting Naya in prison. They have this conversation. This is a very confusing conversation to me because like at the end Natalie is definitely provoking Nivea and then Nivea sort of loses her [ __ ] on Natalie. Yeah. And then Natalie looks like wounded and I was like, did you not just goad her into that response? I'm I'm so confused. But Nivea's jealous that Max took Natalie to Cape Fear River.

[00:21:26]Also >> And the card earlier this season that was like, I will take you here someday was to her, right?

[00:21:31]>> Correct. To Nivea.

[00:21:32]>> Yeah, so she >> it was found at the maggot tomb so I can only assume that it was for her.

[00:21:37]Natalie and Nivea incest. Here's Nivea's read on this. I didn't get you pregnant, did I?

[00:21:41]>> I think that's got to go on the board.

[00:21:44]I I joined her to the incest card. I didn't get you pregnant.

[00:21:48]>> get you pregnant, did I? Um >> Also, am I crazy or does prison really suit Nivea? She is glowing.

[00:21:55]>> I agree. The bangs are looking fresh.

[00:21:57]>> There's something about it.

[00:21:58]>> Um maybe it's cuz she's not being actively dosed by a like a psychotropic drug in prison.

[00:22:04]>> Um you know?

[00:22:05]>> I don't know what it is. There's just something about the lighting or the like whatever makeup she's able to procure in there.

[00:22:10]>> less unhinged.

[00:22:12]>> She looks alive.

[00:22:13]>> Yeah. She looks properly hinged. Well, not entirely.

[00:22:16]>> Until the hinges come off.

[00:22:17]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[00:22:18]>> Yeah.

[00:22:19]>> Do you think he cares about you? You're just a baby rat for him to play with before he kills it. I really wish she Natalie had gotten like if she's going to provoke Nivea, I wish she had gotten like some actual useful information.

[00:22:28]>> Yeah, one little item of like, oh she said this.

[00:22:31]This will help us understand what his plan is. But no, it's just Well, maybe it's just sort of more like fuel on the fire for eventual shiv fest 2026. That is their meeting in prison. So >> I do think it's fuel on the fire in terms of coming forward to her parents about the gun. Like coming clean about the whole situation, right? So many characters in the show Anne is guilty of this, Tom is guilty of this. Like they'll go barking up certain trees and they'll be rebuffed and then they come and come back and do the thing they should have done in the first place.

[00:22:57]>> Now now's the time >> Yes.

[00:22:59]>> to share with the cops.

[00:23:00]>> are here. Let me tell you what's going on.

[00:23:02]>> now is the moment.

[00:23:03]>> the moment.

[00:23:04]>> Um the scene with Noah and Anna when they're talking about Ray and then Anna like you brought up the cloud the other day.

[00:23:10]Anna remembers the cloud and she's like let's find and not only that later Anna geolocates the Galilee based on the the iPhone data.

[00:23:19]Apple must be loving this commercial.

[00:23:21]>> The real hero is the cloud. That's the real afterlife if you think about it.

[00:23:25]>> Your recent photos album.

[00:23:27]>> Ray lives on in the cloud.

[00:23:29]>> all of us.

[00:23:30]>> Didn't they thought about calling it iHeaven but they said iCloud instead?

[00:23:33]>> hope they did.

[00:23:33]>> Okay, great.

[00:23:35]Uh anything else you want to say about this Noah scene? Do you feel like Noah was properly uh contrite for her involvement in all of this?

[00:23:41]>> No.

[00:23:42]>> Yeah.

[00:23:42]>> No, I do not.

[00:23:43]>> No, I also do not.

[00:23:44]>> Many characters have [ __ ] up but boy did she [ __ ] up.

[00:23:47]>> We get the Detective Grayson, Tom and Anna going to see Detective Grayson. Um Ollie reporting on Tom. We get the footage of Tom beating up Ollie in the bar.

[00:23:56]Etcetera, etcetera. Anything you want to say about this?

[00:23:58]>> Before this Detective Grayson interaction, can we rewind a little bit to the initial the body has been found in the pool, the police show up to the house.

[00:24:06]>> Sure.

[00:24:07]>> Uh First of all, the the Bodens did get that second security camera and it did jack [ __ ] They got alternate footage.

[00:24:15]>> fleeced.

[00:24:16]>> Serious. The off charge on that thing?

[00:24:19]Unbelievable. So, first of all, did zero good.

[00:24:21]>> Yeah.

[00:24:22]>> Then I would say this is the police doing their jobs when Detective Grayson is like do you have any guns in the house?

[00:24:29]In the house where we found the murder victim in the backyard of the pool and Anna gets real snippy about the whole situation and from her perspective, I get it.

[00:24:38]>> The police have been so incurious about anything and now they're finally asking questions.

[00:24:43]>> the body in your backyard. They're going to ask if possibly you have the murder weapon. That feels like a reasonable thing to do.

[00:24:50]>> but like walk me you know to Tom's outrage point later, walk me through the thought process of I'm going to kill someone, chop him up, put him in a cooler, put that cooler in my pool so that someone can find it and then report it to the cops.

[00:25:04]>> I don't think it would happen.

[00:25:06]>> the murder.

[00:25:06]>> think it would happen, but maybe that would be the perfect cover is hiding it where they least expect.

[00:25:11]>> Okay.

[00:25:11]>> I just think look, police work is all about as they say repeatedly ruling things out.

[00:25:16]>> Uh-huh.

[00:25:16]>> This is where you start.

[00:25:18]>> is just asking questions.

[00:25:19]>> doing his job.

[00:25:19]>> He's just asking questions.

[00:25:20]>> his job very poorly, but he is doing it.

[00:25:22]>> Okay. Anything else you want to say about Tom and Anna and Detective Grace and at the at the police station.

[00:25:28]>> I just think Tom is really embarrassing himself with the whole gun situation and the attempt to hide it.

[00:25:34]Uh >> Rob?

[00:25:35]>> Not owned the gun that could be used as a murder weapon in the first place. But it is Georgia.

[00:25:41]>> Given the fact that you and I probably would not have guns in our house in the first place.

[00:25:44]>> Probably not.

[00:25:45]>> Okay, but if we did >> Yep.

[00:25:46]>> and if uh you know, if you had guns and and if your teenage daughter were to use the gun.

[00:25:55]>> You don't know that she did that though.

[00:25:56]You know somebody did it.

[00:25:58]>> If you find the used murder weapon and the cops are already curious about why this body's in your pool, >> Yep.

[00:26:06]>> what are you doing? Rob, what's your next move?

[00:26:08]>> Not sticking my finger on the barrel of the gun.

[00:26:10]>> Okay.

[00:26:11]>> That's that's step one.

[00:26:12]>> Okay.

[00:26:13]>> And if I were a prosecutor of some renowned who would understand that there's going to be a record of me buying this exact gun, I probably would do better than like hiding it in the hamper and then try to subtly discard it in a house that is wired for constant surveillance. Like that security company is turning over that table >> instantly.

[00:26:34]>> Glitchy surveillance?

[00:26:35]>> But no, they installed a new system.

[00:26:36]They're upgraded now. And they got upcharged. I'm just saying there's crystal clear high definition footage of Tom going in his gun safe, getting the gun, and trying and clumsily disposing it. Like that's just that's on tape somewhere.

[00:26:49]>> Tough. Tough. Speaking of stuff that's on tape. Okay, so we get multiple scenes with Anna's shitty dad who reveals his true colors.

[00:26:59]Both her dad, well, I guess Anna fell off the wagon was shoved off the wagon when she had LSD. Was dosed with LSD.

[00:27:07]>> It's true. Not outside her control.

[00:27:09]>> But in this episode, both she and her dad are just like harder and sobriety out the window.

[00:27:16]What's your read on this? Like do you believe that he her dad ever had those like genuine intentions of like wanting to make good with the family or was it always this bid for money from them?

[00:27:30]>> I actually kind of thought it was trying to get closer to the family. Maybe that's naive of me. Did you think >> wanted to watch a Pixar movie with his grandkids.

[00:27:36]>> He just wants to watch Cars 2.

[00:27:38]>> Yeah.

[00:27:38]>> You know?

[00:27:39]>> Yeah. He probably is a Cars 2 guy.

[00:27:41]>> Probably is. Monsters Inc. maybe? Are we the monsters?

[00:27:44]>> Monsters University.

[00:27:45]>> He is a big Monsters University head.

[00:27:48]He's a simple man.

[00:27:49]>> Okay.

[00:27:49]>> He wants two things. He wants to watch Cars 3 / Monsters University with his grandkids. And he also wants $100,000.

[00:27:57]>> I too want those things.

[00:27:59]>> be either one. And today he decides to switch the lever to the other track.

[00:28:03]>> And then he shows up on the news with Max. And you know, there there are many ways in which Max has been exploiting the media. You you clocked it sort of from the beginning this idea of like the celebrity of of murder or stuff like that. But the way in which Max is using you know, media perception all of this uh against the Bodens. Will there be a time that the Bodens figure out how to weaponize it back in his direction? I should hope so. But they're fumble bumbling their way through everything, so I don't know.

[00:28:29]>> They're not very good at it. No, they're really bad at it.

[00:28:31]>> great at it.

[00:28:32]>> He's so good at it.

[00:28:33]>> Well, here's a question about uh Anna's dad, Brandon Devereaux.

[00:28:39]Uh >> Yeah.

[00:28:40]>> Did he get money from Max? Was he threatened by Max? Cuz I would assume money. Well, but part of the other side of getting your leg ripped up by Romeo is his DNA is all over the crime scene, right? Like all over Max's house.

[00:28:54]And he could threaten to turn Brandon over to the police if he does not help him.

[00:28:58]>> I think it's both, right? It's like we've got a significant amount of your flesh and and Romeo's jaw.

[00:29:05]>> There's a whole chunk over there.

[00:29:06]>> Yeah, absolutely. But also like they were so chummy chummy buddy buddy >> Yeah.

[00:29:11]>> that it feels like there was also some money passed hands there.

[00:29:14]>> Actually, what if it was Manny?

[00:29:17]>> No.

[00:29:18]>> It's Anna's assumption this was Romeo's doing. We told you he had a dog.

[00:29:22]>> cat for a dog crime.

[00:29:23]>> trying to blame a thing. I'm just saying there's a lot of there's a lot of claw happening in that in that wound.

[00:29:28]>> That's some real Rob Mahoney behavior.

[00:29:32]All right.

[00:29:33]Tom looks at the photos that Ray took.

[00:29:36]>> Yeah.

[00:29:36]>> Sees the photo of Anna and Max kissing.

[00:29:41]And we get this like very strange sort of like telenovela-esque like like he's looking at the phone and we see the photo that he's looking at. I already knew which photo he was looking at, but >> It's true.

[00:29:52]>> the show wanted to make sure I understood what he was looking at.

[00:29:54]>> only that, we get the very dramatic zoom in to make sure. I I felt a little attacked. Like I like free stream boat is here on the case. I might be out of a job.

[00:30:04]>> Oh, no.

[00:30:05]>> What am I to do if I can't be the only person zooming in on random [ __ ] in the background of photos in TV shows?

[00:30:11]>> I can't believe you just spent like 15 minute besmirching Tom as the dumbest guy alive and then you're like also he's on my beat.

[00:30:17]>> I'm not going to lie, anyone could do my job.

[00:30:19]>> Okay.

[00:30:19]>> It's it's really not that complicated.

[00:30:21]>> All right. So, he's really stuck on this. So, I mean earlier we had had this like we had had them holding hands, we had had sort of this like lovey-dovey like fond memory moment of them.

[00:30:30]>> Nothing rekindles a relationship like >> cleaning up a crime scene.

[00:30:33]>> Planting evidence.

[00:30:34]>> Um it really >> Dear Abby said that.

[00:30:36]>> Yeah, she did. Remind me what you were saying before about like nobody remembers from one episode to the other on this show. It's real sort of Glee behavior for And by the way, I read an article the other day cuz I was looking up because Anna was talking about meeting Javier Bardem and he was just like a handsome restaurant tour and I was like 2009 Javier Bardem, let's go look at him. That's what she was dealing with, right?

[00:30:57]>> Absolutely.

[00:30:57]>> Vicky Christina Barcelona, Javier Bar- >> She is not the only one.

[00:31:02]>> Bardem that pulled Penelope Cruz, that's what she was dealing with.

[00:31:05]>> Canonically.

[00:31:06]>> She was grappling with at the time. But I found an article from him that he gave an an interview that he gave recently that said in 2009 he really tried to get Ryan Murphy. He wanted Ryan Murphy to put him on Glee. He wanted to be ugly.

[00:31:19]But like he couldn't sing, so he wasn't ugly. Anyway.

[00:31:22]Glee storytelling is >> that sliding door slammed shut.

[00:31:26]>> Glee storytelling is if we need something to happen, it has to happen in that exact same episode. So at the beginning of the episode we need to establish that Anna and Tom actually care about each other so that by the end Actually, the middle of the episode when Tom's like, "You did this to me." We are just sort of like, you know what I mean?

[00:31:47]We can be like uh reminded of what was lost here.

[00:31:50]>> You're absolutely right.

[00:31:51]>> But I'm just sort of like this You had a lot of time for them to have this scene or these hand-holding moments or whatever and they're just sort of like hastily cramming into this episode that so that they can be wrenched apart a few scenes later, I guess.

[00:32:02]>> And they do the same thing with her sobriety, too. There's the whole scene about the apple juice, which is actually like kind of sweet.

[00:32:07]>> Yeah, it is.

[00:32:08]>> Uh but it serves there to set up the fact that when she falls off later, you understand the stakes and the impact and all that.

[00:32:15]>> "Here's what you missed on Glee, nothing because we're going to establish it again in this very episode just in case you forgot it."

[00:32:20]>> There just haven't been that many episodes of Cape Fear. And there really aren't There's There's a lot going on in terms of plots and twists, but >> Anna's is sobriety, so you know.

[00:32:31]>> What is Zach's?

[00:32:34]>> Eating toes?

[00:32:36]Fishing? Fishing?

[00:32:38]>> Everyone has a talent.

[00:32:39]>> Fishing and eating toes. All right, Tom and Anna in prison. What did you think of this scene?

[00:32:44]>> I mean, I I kind of get why it's over, or at least it seems to be over for now.

[00:32:48]Uh they certainly don't seem to trust each other. All the the bottom is completely fallen out on their relationship.

[00:32:54]>> so I the thing I really liked about this episode, I will say, is in the Anna and Natalie scene, we get a better explanation for why Anna has kept it a secret not only in her whole life, but in this whole Max Katie confrontation, that Natalie could be his daughter.

[00:33:13]>> Right.

[00:33:14]>> Um it's it's her buried shame that she thought she buried deep enough that it would not come back to her. And I felt so much sympathy for her because like knowing what we know about Max Katie and his like drugging tendencies and and manipulative ways, it's just sort of like he could have injected any given peach that she ate and she had she had these blackouts before she before she met him, but like he seemingly to me took advantage of that.

[00:33:41]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:33:41]>> And like that's you know, [ __ ] sexual assault and that's what she's describing here. That's why Natalie's so perturbed here. And so for to go then zoom back to that scene with Tom cuz when Tom's like "What do you [ __ ] mean you don't know?"

[00:33:56]>> Yeah.

[00:33:56]>> And I'm with you. I'm like Tom Yeah, Anna, what do you mean you don't know?

[00:34:00]And then later she tells us I'm like, "I'm sorry, Anna."

[00:34:02]I'm sorry that I was like on Tom's side in that scene because I understand Tom's frustration. And I understand why Anna is like not ready to talk about it until she is like fully fallen off the wagon and she talks to Natalie about it, but like um I So I like this is like the one time I feel like the show has given us explan- like a a proper human explanation for why someone would be so like withholding and >> KJ for more than just plot convenience.

[00:34:30]>> yeah. Exactly.

[00:34:31]>> I mean, we're getting there. I still feel like we only know some of the story and maybe still not the entire picture.

[00:34:37]Like does does what Anna says about her shame and wanting to suppress it and want it and part of that is wanting to bury all of that shame and Max with it somewhere where it'll never resurface again. Does that sufficiently explain the Max line, you put me away for what she did, which is the thing that Tom returns to?

[00:34:54]>> Really latches onto in this episode.

[00:34:55]>> I mean, it's it just comes right on back up word for word, letter for letter. I think it could and some of it will depend on what the extent of like burying Max really means.

[00:35:04]>> Yeah, to your point, we don't know the full story of the way in which Tom and Anna colluded.

[00:35:10]Like we don't know all of that information, absolutely.

[00:35:13]Um but the why of Anna being willing to not wanting Max to be exonerated but rather wanting him locked away and hidden uh is because it is associated with something that she feels ashamed of even though she should not feel ashamed of it. And then I think that like what the larger ripples of that is what it makes this show about because let's say 90s kid like what is Max kid?

[00:35:37]What does Max Kitty represent this like elemental evil? In the like 60s version, it's like you're you're nice, uh you know, kind, honorable family and this like demonic presence has come to bedevil you or whatever. And then in the 90s as we've mentioned, Nick Nolte has like a a sin, something that he did for sure that isn't nearly on on this level or whatever, but like something that he did has come back to haunt him. And so for this to now be sort of like Anna's hidden shame about something that I don't know all the details of, but I'm inclined to be on her side given everything that we've seen Max Kitty do, like that she's hidden this thing that that if we lived in a better society, she should not feel shame around. And it has come to haunt her. I think that's potentially very interesting story to watch, you know.

[00:36:35]>> Well, especially cuz there's the overlying dynamics. There There's whatever her relationship was with Max that's like awkwardly footed and they're figuring out. It's like she just met this man and clearly they're swept up in something.

[00:36:46]>> Right.

[00:36:46]>> But so she's still trying to figure him out. And then there's everything going on with her just like addiction in general that I think is facilitating these blackouts.

[00:36:53]>> Yes.

[00:36:54]>> And so it's like she's feeling >> shame in a probably several different directions at once in a way that she is trying to make sense of. And the fact that she can't even say confidently that like an encounter happened or at least doesn't with Natalie.

[00:37:07]Like I I completely understand how she would have like buried this within herself to this point.

[00:37:12]>> Absolutely.

[00:37:13]>> you confront the thing that you don't even know yourself to be like 100% factually true because you're living in this sort of constant haze of days on weeks of blackouts?

[00:37:21]>> Yeah. Right. So like blackouts due to drinking and then blackouts potentially also due to being drugged. And like if but my point I guess not that you contradicted anything I said, but my point is like if it's due to the drinking like alcoholism is a disease. And so like that is something I have a lot of empathy around. And then if it is if it is due to being drugged, that's assault. And so it or some combination of the two, these are all things that I like would like the world to have empathy for the people >> Of course.

[00:37:49]>> struggled through this. And often times doesn't and especially in in a in a in a world in a world in a world where like Anna has dedicated herself to this idea of like redemption and second chances but cannot offer that quarter to herself is I think potentially good. I'm not sure that that's the show we're watching, but >> Probably not.

[00:38:10]>> you know.

[00:38:10]>> DNA is there.

[00:38:12]>> Sure.

[00:38:13]>> And I'll say too as far as this kind of gray area we're talking about as far as like what even happened between these two characters.

[00:38:19]>> Right.

[00:38:20]>> This is kind of an adaptive side step too of the Max Cadys of iterations past are like clearly sexual predators. Yes.

[00:38:26]Like have often overtly raped usually underage girls. Right.

[00:38:30]We haven't had any allusion to that kind of backstory here, but if there is like a weird line crossing {slash} sexual assault that happened with Anna while she was under the influence or he was drugging her, that's like a twist on that kind of story >> Yeah.

[00:38:44]>> spun out in a different sort of direction.

[00:38:46]>> say whatever has happened between him and Crystal, I do not feel uh great about that either.

[00:38:51]>> Nope.

[00:38:52]>> Um >> Well, can we talk about that friend because in episode I want to believe it was episode six, we get Max's story about Layla.

[00:38:59]>> Mhm.

[00:39:00]>> Where he is talking and you may remember this is like the big speech about the girl named Layla, the boy she was like tormenting who exacts his revenge. And we get some emails and we talked about it in the episode of like wondering who he is referring to. And he gives Anna a very like, you know what I'm talking about mid speech.

[00:39:16]I The details don't really line up to me to be about his relationship with Anna.

[00:39:21]They still feel like they would be more about his relationship with Crystal potentially, but the fallout, the punishment is like word for word, note for note what he is doing to the Bodens now. Right about like, I want to make you feel the way I felt when like realer realer imagined the injustices that he thinks they have visited on him. And he is trying to make Anna feel as powerless as he felt. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so I I I did think it was interesting to get repeated allusions again in this episode to like people playing with mice or people playing like cats playing with rats and mice as like this gigantic metaphor that won't go away regarding Max, but I do feel like we kind of closed the loop on the Layla story maybe.

[00:40:01]>> So, you think it is Anna?

[00:40:03]>> I think it has come to be about Anna, but the beginning of that story about like the boy like >> just his MO then. This is just like >> that this is a process he perfected with Crystal and is now using against Anna.

[00:40:14]>> His sort of like idea of cosmic justice if he feels wronged by something.

[00:40:19]>> Yes.

[00:40:20]>> When Natalie finds her mom drunk, and Natalie's like, "I know a drunk lady when I see her."

[00:40:26]Uh and she says she'll make her some coffee. Do you think that was Savannah Coffee Roasters?

[00:40:29]>> Except no substitutes.

[00:40:30]>> Yeah, absolutely.

[00:40:31]>> I had it written down. She just She just took cup out of one hand, swapped it to Savannah Coffee Roasters.

[00:40:35]>> I mean, no free ads, but it's got to sober up in a in a quickness.

[00:40:39]>> It honestly worked.

[00:40:40]>> Did it? She took a nap while her daughter went across the street to shoot someone.

[00:40:43]>> Well, but then she had the mother's intuition to jolt up as all mothers do when your teenage daughter has shot someone.

[00:40:48]>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. To recap, 2009 Javier Bardem, this is Vicky Cristina Barcelona Javier Bardem, this is Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian Amy Adams.

[00:40:59]>> Amelia Earhart? Who? Yeah, okay, wow.

[00:41:04]>> Uh okay, before Natalie shows up and does the really dumb [ __ ] with the gun.

[00:41:08]>> Yeah.

[00:41:09]>> Max head injury without any uh observation. This is a question we had previously was like, when he's like, "Oh, my head." in the car and you're like, "Is he just faking it for Natalie?" But we get this incident without anyone observing it.

[00:41:22]>> Yes, but I feel like the times where it does happen without anybody are all strobing lights.

[00:41:27]>> Mhm.

[00:41:28]>> Like in this case, he looks directly into the police sirens and then his head starts splitting and then he sees the vision.

[00:41:34]Max son holy bangs, everyone is here.

[00:41:38]I I thought I thought the one in the car and I still do believe that one is >> immaculate.

[00:41:45]>> Do they not look even more immaculate every time we see them?

[00:41:49]>> Glossy perfection, honestly. Really good.

[00:41:51]>> But yeah, to your point, this one is clearly not fake. He's alone in his own home until Natalie stumbles in with a gun.

[00:41:57]>> Yeah.

[00:41:58]Um all right, what he says to her before he goats her into shooting him precisely where it will not hit any organs.

[00:42:05]"You're about to learn things about the people you love, hard things. You need time to really understand. You will always have me." Like so part of his like seduction tactic of like, "I'm your dad, I'll take care of you, etc. etc. But like I kind of had this moment of of triumph when he says you're about to learn things about the people you love, hard things. Like to your point, we still don't know exactly what Tom and Anna did. But if he's trying to like hold Anna's shame over Natalie in some way or or something like that, like Anna already told Natalie like you have no power here.

[00:42:36]>> Um because Anna already came clean to Natalie about this and also you don't she does not look like the villain of that particular scenario. So like that's like we got a sunshine problem here.

[00:42:48]Like we need to air everything out so that Max cannot have this ability to manipulate and you know, um use secrets as weapons, etc. etc. >> This is the closest that Natalie has come all season to like actually understanding what is happening and operating with that knowledge in a way that is not dumbfounding.

[00:43:10]Even earlier in this episode, she just keeps like earlier in this episode when Max calls her, she just keeps divulging information you should not divulge to someone you're even remotely skeptical of. And here in the end, she shows up with the gun, she's like I don't believe what you're saying, I'm here to kill you to save my family.

[00:43:29]And even then he manages to to like twist her fear into something that he can manipulate and use for his purposes.

[00:43:34]>> Where would you have shot Max, Katie?

[00:43:37]>> I mean, if you're going to shoot, I feel like you got to shoot to kill, no?

[00:43:41]>> But where where do you feel like that is?

[00:43:42]>> I feel like that's in the head or the heart.

[00:43:44]>> Yeah. I would do a head shot. Head shot.

[00:43:46]>> I'm not not not a gunman.

[00:43:50]>> I think it's a head shot.

[00:43:51]>> I mean, you got to be you got to >> Three in the head. Two in the head?

[00:43:54]>> not you better not miss.

[00:43:55]>> Yeah. Not in the side either.

[00:43:57]>> Regardless if you are going to shoot him, here's the thing, don't raise a gun at anyone you don't intend to shoot.

[00:44:01]That's like gun 101.

[00:44:02]>> Don't have guns.

[00:44:04]>> That's real gun 101.

[00:44:06]>> Yeah.

[00:44:06]>> If you do have the gun and you raise it at somebody, be prepared to shoot them.

[00:44:10]>> Okay.

[00:44:10]>> Don't let Max close the space and nearly take it out of your hands and then position it conveniently into his gut where it will hit no vital organs. If your intent is to kill someone, again, not our area.

[00:44:24]>> Where did you get that information? Oh, the Prestige TV podcast. They told me exactly how to kill someone.

[00:44:31]Um all right, Anna goes into Max's hospital room.

[00:44:34]>> Yeah.

[00:44:34]>> Oh, I I should say. So so she I missed uh Natalie gets taken away. Anna goes to the hospital room and say like, I'll say I did it. I want to go back though when Tom gets arrested.

[00:44:47]Um like covering for Natalie essentially, right? Kind of.

[00:44:53]She calls him dad. I think it's the first time she's called him dad. She calls him Tom the whole season, I think.

[00:44:59]And so she calls him dad like right as before he goes out the door. So >> that's going to keep him warm at night?

[00:45:05]You think he's doing all right in prison? He's like, "Oh, man, she finally called me dad."

[00:45:08]>> Step really stepped up this time, you know?

[00:45:10]>> step up, but Natalie really stepped down. She She really blew it.

[00:45:15]>> I just thought I like I've been sort of tracking like does Tom treat Natalie, who's not his biological kid, the same way he treats uh his toe-eating son?

[00:45:26]And there are some differences, but like he went to jail for her to a certain degree, you know?

[00:45:31]>> think he also went to jail because there was evidence pointed specifically at him.

[00:45:35]>> That too, but he's just sort of like, you know, I'll go like, you know?

[00:45:39]>> Here's the thing, if he goes in in there and says, "My daughter took that gun and hung out with Max Katie on a road trip to North Carolina in which he used it to kill Ray, someone who doesn't really go to North Carolina very often, it seems, over there." I just don't think it's going to help his case. I don't think anyone's going to believe him even if he said it.

[00:45:57]>> But he's like, "I have more information and it's this. This is how we can perhaps connect Max K D to this particular crime.

[00:46:04]>> Yeah.

[00:46:05]>> If we know that Ray Rollins was at the Galilee, which is information that Anna has.

[00:46:10]>> That's confirmable.

[00:46:10]>> You know, and like >> speaks to it.

[00:46:14]>> Everyone's sharing all the information we have. I think we could have a case here. I'm not a lawyer.

[00:46:19]>> we can have the inklings of a case, but counterpoint, the murder weapon is in the Bodens closet locked in a safe. The fingerprints are on it.

[00:46:27]>> he got rid of it somewhere else.

[00:46:28]>> Did he?

[00:46:29]>> Well, he's like We got it before they went in to see a detective Grayson.

[00:46:32]>> Yeah.

[00:46:33]>> After the laundry basket, which was just a temporary resting place.

[00:46:35]>> It's true. It's true.

[00:46:36]>> Before they went in he's like, we got to get rid of we got to dump this weapon.

[00:46:39]>> But where did he dump it?

[00:46:41]>> know.

[00:46:41]>> We've already established these two don't know how to do crime.

[00:46:44]Like his whole plan was like, I'm going to go over to Max's house.

[00:46:47]>> Tom some credit and I think like Natalie saying, "Hey, it was I was it was me with the gun." And he's like, "I'll just go to jail right now." Like that seemed very dad-like.

[00:47:00]>> I don't think that's what dads usually do.

[00:47:03]>> Tough. Tougher for me to learn that here on this podcast. Anna's and Max's hospital room. How do you feel about this?

[00:47:08]>> This is a terrible plan.

[00:47:09]>> Awful.

[00:47:10]>> One of the worst plans.

[00:47:11]>> Definitely terrible.

[00:47:13]>> Show up in the one place like your family cannot be seen near this man. He has manipulated your husband into prison. He hates you now.

[00:47:22]>> Yeah.

[00:47:22]>> Your daughter into prison. She may never come out cuz she did shoot this guy.

[00:47:26]>> She missed.

[00:47:27]>> Your son into thinking he is AI slop.

[00:47:30]And your plan is to go into a place with lots of security cameras.

[00:47:35]First try to bargain and then assault this man?

[00:47:38]>> him like he's a murder weapon?

[00:47:40]>> There's There's just so many witnesses. We see so many doctors and nurses acknowledging her presence. It's a terrible plan.

[00:47:48]>> Man, with Tom in prison, Zach taking drugs or not.

[00:47:53]Neveah looking on as Natalie walks in.

[00:47:55]>> Yeah, and can we just to pick up with Where did Where did they leave off?

[00:48:00]"I'm going to [ __ ] kill you. Oh my god, it's going to be beautiful. He's going to tear you [ __ ] people up piece by [ __ ] piece, [ __ ] bitch."

[00:48:09]That was Neveah's last words to Natalie.

[00:48:11]>> Shiv fest. Shiv fest. Um >> How do you think Natalie's like shiv whittling is? Like can she successfully create a shiv?

[00:48:19]>> I think Neveah was born whittling, so I don't think Natalie can out whittle her at any time.

[00:48:25]>> It's more of a nature than a nurture.

[00:48:26]>> Yeah, I really do. I really do.

[00:48:28]Um I'm just curious if like one of the future episodes is called Shiv Fest.

[00:48:32]It's not, unfortunately. But the scar is next week's episode, so I don't know what that is about.

[00:48:38]Uh Okay.

[00:48:40]Tom's in prison.

[00:48:42]Zach's maybe taking his medication or not. Uh the right dosage, who who's to say? Neveah looking on as Natalie walks in. Anna's got a gun.

[00:48:51]>> How many guns does this family own? This one wasn't even in the safe.

[00:48:54]>> This wasn't one of the ones from the safe?

[00:48:56]>> like a revolver. It's a totally different gun.

[00:48:58]>> I There were like four or five handguns in the safe. And then the shotgun.

[00:49:03]>> But the handles all look similar to the Glock, which I think has a different >> there was a revolver in there.

[00:49:09]>> I mean, you are You are a gun guy.

[00:49:11]>> did not read Spray Mahoney yet. Anyway, okay, perhaps this is Anna's girly gun.

[00:49:15]Yeah, bonus gun.

[00:49:16]Uh she's got a gun. She's going to Cape Fear River to the Galilee, which I hope means Juliette Lewis is in next week's episode.

[00:49:24]>> One can only hope and dream.

[00:49:26]>> Do you think when the cops were like, "Don't leave town." Was that like a soft suggestion or was that a a real suggestion?

[00:49:31]>> she listen to anything these [ __ ] cops say?

[00:49:34]>> Just doing their jobs, ma'am.

[00:49:36]>> She's just going to take She's going to take matters into her own hands, and when has that gone wrong for the Boatwrights on this show?

[00:49:40]>> Never a single time.

[00:49:42]Uh but let me tell you the storm is a coming.

[00:49:44]>> Storm is a coming.

[00:49:45]>> The cars on the road are hurtling toward Cape Fear, and that storm is not stopping for anybody. And I cannot wait for a climactic rainy showdown. Thunder cracking in the back.

[00:49:54]>> On the Galilee?

[00:49:55]>> I I would hope.

[00:49:56]>> Okay.

[00:49:57]>> Nearby at least.

[00:49:58]>> it just Anna V Max on the Galilee with the historical storm?

[00:50:06]>> And Crystal's the wild card who Anna believes she has co-opted to her side through some force of plot and magic.

[00:50:13]>> Oh, but she wasn't in the humidor, so she doesn't know.

[00:50:15]>> She doesn't know all about it.

[00:50:16]>> bit relationship.

[00:50:17]>> No, that's that bonds people for life.

[00:50:19]>> Yeah.

[00:50:19]>> I've been told.

[00:50:24]>> Do we discuss this episode of Cape Fear?

[00:50:25]>> I think we did.

[00:50:26]>> Is there anything else you want to say?

[00:50:28]>> Joy, do you have one last thing to bring up? Natalie shirt in the open of this episode. The first time we see Natalie on screen, she's wearing like a off-the-shoulder >> cat shirt.

[00:50:37]>> Cats and flowers.

[00:50:38]>> Yeah.

[00:50:39]>> Um this is the first time all season I'm like that is Max's daughter. That's a style icon if I've ever seen one. You know?

[00:50:46]>> I don't know.

[00:50:47]>> You think You think Anna Anna and Tom are coming up with that?

[00:50:49]>> You You're pro that cat shirt look?

[00:50:52]>> I kind of liked it.

[00:50:54]I liked it as, you know, Natalie following her heart. These are These are the two things she apparently cares about. Well, I guess three. It's like these two and like the ballet.

[00:51:02]>> off-the-shoulder number with a with a cat with a dog on it?

[00:51:05]>> Not me personally, but if you can pull it off, I support anyone who can.

[00:51:08]>> Okay, great. Um I can't I had that cat shirt down as like bad idea, but you're like great idea.

[00:51:14]>> You think that was a You think in the realm of Cape Fear bad ideas that was a bad idea?

[00:51:18]>> Think of a [email protected] if you would like to weigh in on the cat shirt whether or not you think that was the look for Natalie and Anna in that >> the problem? Is it that's a little too 2009?

[00:51:28]>> Okay.

[00:51:28]>> Like wolves howling at the moon or what what's your objection?

[00:51:30]>> Yeah, three wolf moon. I I hate to besmirch my fellow cat people. I don't think cats I don't think pets on apparel is a good look.

[00:51:42]>> Yeah. You think you should be ashamed of your pets and never take them in public or be proud of them.

[00:51:47]>> should like infantilize them in that way.

[00:51:50]>> Infantilize them?

[00:51:51]>> Yeah.

[00:51:52]>> Couldn't it be celebrating them?

[00:51:53]>> I don't know. I just I'm just I support you if you're at home and you're wearing a cat shirt right now. I support you.

[00:51:59]>> sound like she is. She is not supporting you.

[00:52:03]>> I don't like it. I don't like it. Cats on things I don't I don't like it.

[00:52:07]>> I just think people should celebrate their pets and I I think Natalie's bond to Peanut Butter is beautiful.

[00:52:12]>> Mani?

[00:52:13]>> Mani? Well, to her it's still Peanut.

[00:52:15]But I don't think she even knows about the Mani situation. Nobody Here's the problem for Natalie. No one tells her anything. She's just sitting at home, hanging out in the backyard in overalls.

[00:52:23]Nobody bothers to tell her what's going on.

[00:52:26]>> Why did I think peanut was a completely different word in Spanish?

[00:52:30]>> What did you think it was?

[00:52:31]>> I'm going to say a word that's not a word.

[00:52:33]>> Okay.

[00:52:33]>> Is this >> This is podcasting, baby.

[00:52:35]>> Like cacahuete is what I thought peanut was.

[00:52:38]>> Okay.

[00:52:39]>> And manteca de cacahuete is peanut butter and that's butter of cac- I thought >> A peanut.

[00:52:46]>> peanut. So maybe maybe Mani is just like a cute way of saying peanut. I don't know.

[00:52:50]>> Maybe it's like an affectionate like little peanut.

[00:52:53]>> Aw, little peanut.

[00:52:54]>> Yeah.

[00:52:55]You know.

[00:52:55]>> put cacahuete in Google, it just says peanut. So >> Think of a little [email protected].

[00:53:02]>> All right. Uh all right, little homie.

[00:53:03]Anything else you want to say uh about this?

[00:53:06]>> Let's go to the board.

[00:53:06]>> Okay, great.

[00:53:08]All right. Now is the time on this very normal podcast we are going to introduce the new cards that we are adding to our conspiracy board >> Yes.

[00:53:14]>> for Kate Fear. Only two more episodes to go after this. Do you feel like we're going to be able to cover all the cork by by the time we're done here?

[00:53:21]>> the opposite concern, which is there's a lot going on here. It's quite busy.

[00:53:25]We've already had to take some things off just because they've left relevance.

[00:53:29]Characters have been replaced completely.

[00:53:31]>> absolutely.

[00:53:32]>> increasing clarity and I This thing is messy and it's only going to get messier.

[00:53:36]>> eye open?

[00:53:37]>> Always.

[00:53:37]>> All right. You want to start?

[00:53:38]>> I would love to.

[00:53:40]The security system upcharges. They didn't do jack [ __ ] Didn't do a single thing.

[00:53:45]>> You really wanted that car to say useless security systems up-charges, but I was my hand was cramping >> probably redundant.

[00:53:51]>> I didn't get you pregnant, did I? We decided to add some quotes this week.

[00:53:55]Uh, they're in pink for some reason.

[00:53:56]>> Well, then let me add the corresponding quote.

[00:53:58]>> Yeah.

[00:53:58]>> From the recipient of this one.

[00:54:00]>> Uh-huh.

[00:54:01]>> I missed.

[00:54:03]>> Nothing else need be said.

[00:54:05]>> The cloud is here. Don't worry about it.

[00:54:08]Give a corresponding card.

[00:54:10]>> Somehow not the same thing, but adjacent to metadata. Very important in any virtual detective work. Digital detective work.

[00:54:18]>> corresponding card over there. Do you want to play it right now?

[00:54:21]>> Wait, to to the cloud?

[00:54:22]>> Yeah.

[00:54:23]It's the one on top.

[00:54:24]>> Is it the storm?

[00:54:24]>> It's the storm.

[00:54:25]>> You know a thing or two about storms, you know? You've been in this line of work for a long time.

[00:54:29]>> Is that a storm with spoilers joke?

[00:54:31]>> Yeah.

[00:54:31]>> Great.

[00:54:32]>> Are we allowed?

[00:54:34]>> It's allowed.

[00:54:35]>> But the storms are coming. I I hope people batten down the hatches. I hope they get in their storm cellars.

[00:54:40]>> un- >> This this This show is already on and un-battened.

[00:54:47]I hope My only hope when the storm does come >> Yeah.

[00:54:50]>> it's Max and it's Anna and they're in a like in a little ditch under a road holding on to a pipe ever so tightly.

[00:54:58]>> want that Twister action.

[00:55:00]>> do.

[00:55:00]>> Okay, listen.

[00:55:02]Do we remember how to podcast normally?

[00:55:03]>> No.

[00:55:04]>> That's my question.

[00:55:06]>> No, we do not.

[00:55:06]>> Do Are we going to be able to like re-hinge and re-batten this podcast by the time That's So Horses comes back?

[00:55:11]>> The thing is that's already a pretty unhinged show.

[00:55:14]>> It's true.

[00:55:14]>> It could probably use a cork board.

[00:55:15]>> I really miss normal podcasting. All right, the revolver. Gun number three that we're adding to the board. The revolver.

[00:55:22]>> It's an important one. Also important, I mean, potentially a weapon of a different kind, Zach's hidden meds.

[00:55:27]They're being smuggled, at least I think. Do you think?

[00:55:30]>> I think it's more likely than not.

[00:55:33]>> I don't think you're seeing AI slops on if you're on your meds.

[00:55:37]>> Oh.

[00:55:37]>> Okay. maybe this is the last time Zach sees them, but it sure looked to me like he was smuggling them under something on the table.

[00:55:43]>> Okay.

[00:55:44]A very specific region of the abdomen where your organs will not be injured by being shot by possibly your biological daughter who likes cat shirts.

[00:55:54]>> All very normal.

[00:55:57]Maternal instinct alarm clock for one occasion and one occasion only and it's when your teenage daughter shoots an adult man in that specified region of the abdomen.

[00:56:07]>> All right, 2009 Javier Bardem. This is what Anna was working with.

[00:56:11]Tough tough for all of us. And then Crystal scrapbook. This is Rob's suggestion. It's really more of like a a smear of photos on the table.

[00:56:19]>> it's a collage now that I think about it.

[00:56:20]>> Yeah. Her her her vision board of stocking.

[00:56:24]>> Yes.

[00:56:24]>> Um >> I do think it's aspirational scrapbooking though. She's bought all the supplies. She's laid out all the photos. And like many people she has become overwhelmed with the possibility.

[00:56:33]>> going to scrapbook it or is she going to cork board it?

[00:56:35]>> If if she comes up with a cork board in the finale >> I dare not compete with a Juliette Lewis level uh cork board.

[00:56:42]>> You're going to ascend into heaven directly if she has the cork board in the finale.

[00:56:46]>> All right.

[00:56:46]>> Uh as a happy grandfather would be if he finally got the opportunity to watch Monsters University with his grandkids.

[00:56:53]It's all he wants. Let this man watch a Pixar movie. Brandon Devereux.

[00:56:58]>> Brandon Devereux. Last but not least uh Rob did let me have it. Charcuterie.

[00:57:04]>> I think I finally am I'm wrapping my head around this pun. I can't support it, but I do support you.

[00:57:09]>> Thank you. And that's our podcast.

[00:57:11]Thanks so much to Jacob Cornett who's here with us today, Devinaldi, Kai Grady.

[00:57:18]I don't know who else are we thinking.

[00:57:19]>> Gun number five.

[00:57:20]>> Okay. Time will only tell.

[00:57:23]>> Drug injected peaches.

[00:57:24]>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

[00:57:26]>> And many always.

[00:57:27]>> You see the movie You haven't seen the movie Labyrinth. You have seen the >> yeah.

[00:57:31]>> Okay.

[00:57:31]>> You remind me of the babe. Well you remember how he like gives her that like poison peach that causes her to hallucinate? Of course. Do you think this is where Max Kady got the idea to inject the peach? Again, I just want to see the like the ideation stages of all of his various stuff.

[00:57:47]As one does and he's like that's a good idea. I got to get me some peaches.

[00:57:52]Zach is like my brain is now jumbled into a series of movie scenes and meanwhile Max Kady's like actually these movie scenes are pretty instructive.

[00:57:59]Labyrinth is great. Okay, thanks to everyone. We'll see you soon. Bye.