Wait, WHAT? New Bill Would Let People LITERALLY KILL Abortion Providers?!?

[00:00:00]They are really very proactively trying to um shift that overton window and get people used to the idea that it is okay to punish uh abortion patients. If they can't do it with life in prison or the death penalty right away, they'll try to figure out another way to do it. No, they are they are moving to the next step.

[00:00:28]I'm Jane Coen and this is What a Today, the show that's wondering how Vice President JD Vance really felt when his boss declared him the official scapegoat of the Iran war.

[00:00:37]>> President Trump said yesterday that he was going to blame you if the talks with Iran go sideways. Are you worried that he's going to make you the full guy?

[00:00:44]>> Uh, no, not at all. I mean, I think the president was joking.

[00:00:47]>> Oh, honey. Maybe ask former Vice President Mike Pence about what a hilarious guy President Donald Trump really is. On today's show, we talked to Jessica Valente about the next front in the abortion fight and the scary state level anti-abortion legislation you may not have heard about. Before we get into all that, here's what we're following today, Thursday, June 18th.

[00:01:11]>> So, I guess I would say to anybody, any of the critics, is number one, have a little bit of faith in the president of the United States. The idea that he is going to strike a deal that's been bad for the American people. It's preposterous.

[00:01:24]>> Preposterous.

[00:01:26]Vice President JD Vance has the unfortunate task of spinning the new US Iran Memorandum of Understanding or if you will surrenderandom of understanding. And spoiler alert, it's not going over well. That's because this agreement foresees effectively pumping Iran full of money by unfreezing hundreds of billions of dollars held in foreign banks and letting Iran sell oil right away. It does not include a long-term resolution to the Iranian nuclear standoff, at least not on paper.

[00:01:55]So, we went from we're going to destroy your civilization to eh do whatever. After days of will he won't he, the president went ahead and signed theou during a visit to the French palace of Versailles.

[00:02:11]That makes this the second most important document signed there after the treaty that famously ended World War I and paved the way for World War II.

[00:02:19]Trump's memo of Versailles stops fighting for 60 days. So Vance has plenty of time to scramble for a much better final deal. And for Vance's sake, that new deal better be a big improvement because even Republicans think what Trump just signed is [ __ ] Fox News host Trey Gouty said yesterday he thought he was being spoofed after reading theou because of how it benefits Iran.

[00:02:42]>> They're better off than they were before the hostilities began and that should not be the consequence of war.

[00:02:50]>> Another Fox News host, Mark Levvin, tweeted today, quote, "The insanity of those defending parts of theou or major matters left out of thisou is truly stunning. But it's not just loudmouthed Fox News personalities slamming Trump's deal. In a tweet yesterday, Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy called it the quote worst foreign policy blunder in decades. And in an interview with The Hill, Texas Republican Senator Ted Cruz suggested Trump might be getting some quote very poor advice on this deal. Trump fired back today against quote fools who think he hasn't been tough enough on Iran, calling them quote either jealous, bad people, or stupid.

[00:03:30]As someone who opposed this war and dislikes this administration, I'll say I'm having a great time. It's rare that I get to say this, but the Supreme Court today made a ruling that was both correct and hilarious. In a unanimous decision, the court found that the prosecution of a Texas man for owning a gun while also being a marijuana user was not consistent with the Second Amendment. In Justice Neil Gorsuch's majority opinion, he wrote that the prosecution only made sense if you believe that using or possessing marijuana, a drug millions of Americans use and is legal to some degree in 40 states, gave the government the right to take away someone's second amendment rights. I highly recommend reading the full opinion because Gorsuch included roughly four pages on the drinking habits of the founding fathers. his point. Despite the fact that Thomas Jefferson drank four glasses of wine a night, no one at the time would have attempted to restrict his right to bear arms. And so it goes, according to the Supreme Court with a 10 gummy.

[00:04:31]And speaking of green, Washington DC is dealing with another kind. Despite official claims to the contrary, the Lincoln Memorial's reflecting pool remains emerald colored and filled with algae. Yes, Trump promised to drain the swamp. Instead, he put one in the reflecting pool. Earlier this morning, the Department of the Interior tweeted they had solved this problem with, and I am not making this up, quote, advanced nanobubbler technology.

[00:05:01]Yeah, your guess is as good as mine, but DC correspondent Matt Berg went to look and >> still green, guys.

[00:05:09]>> There you have it. Our man in DC on the scene. And that's the news.

[00:05:16]Let's talk about abortion. The 2022 DOS decision that reversed Row versus Wade promised to return the issue of abortion back to the states. But for anti-abortion activists, state level bans haven't been good enough. And more and more states have introduced legislation that would make getting an abortion a punishable crime. In Tennessee, a state with a total abortion ban. Republican legislators tried to push through a bill that would have treated abortion like homicide, making abortion patients eligible for the death penalty under Tennessee law. And in North Carolina, a state where abortion is still legal, Republican legislators recently proposed a bill that goes even further.

[00:05:55]It's clear that anti-abortion activists want to see women who get abortions imprisoned or worse. And with the number of people who have gotten abortions only increasing over the last year, that's a lot of punishment they want to meet out.

[00:06:09]Jessica Valente writes the Substack Abortion Every Day. She has been tracking abortion rights for more than a decade. We talked about why the anti-abortion movement has gotten more extreme and what we can do about it.

[00:06:21]Jessica, welcome back to Why Today.

[00:06:24]>> Thanks for having me. So, North Carolina has been considering a bill that would let voters amend the state constitution to say that life starts at the moment of conception and it would equate abortion with murder. There a lot of layers to how bad this bill is. Can you give us a quick explainer?

[00:06:44]>> Sure. Yeah, there's there's a lot going on there. Um it, as you said, would classify abortion as murder in the criminal code, not just for abortion providers, but for abortion patients. Uh in every state that has an abortion ban, they generally prohibit the prosecution of abortion patients. This would allow the prosecution of abortion patients. um the way that they define abortion and life would make it questionable uh on birth control and whether certain forms of birth control like IUDs and the morning after pill would be considered abortions uh and therefore punishable with life in prison. Uh, and then there's a really interesting, it's not the right word, um, but a really troubling section that allows, um, for the use of deadly force in defense of a fetus, embryo, fertilized egg, meaning you could kill an abortion provider. Um, and that would be legally justified. And the language, as if that wasn't bad enough, the language is so broad that you could also make the argument that killing someone who is driving a person to an abortion clinic, who is lending them money um is is being done in defense of a fetus. And so it's it's pretty much about as extreme as as you can get, but I would just say unfortunately we're seeing a real rise in bills like this, right? Like they're no longer anomalies, >> right? Yeah, I think I've seen bills like this in Tennessee and in Louisiana.

[00:08:15]What What other states have tried to pass legislation that would make an abortion the equivalent of committing murder?

[00:08:22]>> I mean, pretty much every anti-abortion state has has seen a bill like this. I think at last count it was over a dozen.

[00:08:29]They're called equal protection bills because the idea is that fetuses, embryos, fertilized eggs deserve the same level of um protection in the state constitution. um as a as a human being.

[00:08:42]And they're being pushed by this really radical group, this sect of the anti-abortion movement called abortion abolitionists, which is just problematic for all sorts of reasons. Um but they are gaining power like culturally, politically, they have a really unfortunately good political ground game. They have candidates who are running for office. they have folks who have uh been elected to office and and so this is again it's not an unusual bit of legislation anymore. We're we're seeing it every legislative session and every legislative session these bills are getting more co-sponsors.

[00:09:24]We'll get back to my conversation with Jessica Valente in a moment with more troubling ideas that unfortunately we still have to talk about. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a fivestar review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends who are to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Ziatics. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is until I found pre-alcohol.

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[00:11:48]Let's get back to my conversation with Jessica Valente. Now, realistically, this North Carolina bill will not pass.

[00:11:56]I I I think it's interesting because you keep having these moments. Again, interesting, not in a good way. You keep having these moments where these bill is suggested >> and then the legislators clearly get yelled at just enough that they're like, "Oh, well, maybe it's not such a good idea." Um, I think my favorite example of this was a Tennessee legislator who put this forward. His argument was, well, we don't execute that many women anyway, so it's not really that big a concern. When t, you know, that bill was put forward in Tennessee.

[00:12:24]>> Yeah.

[00:12:25]>> But in a moment in which there are more than a dozen states with total bans, >> this tells me that the state of the anti-abortion movement is more extreme than ever. You know, we heard for 50 years or so, oh, just send it back to the states and let states make a decision. And then the Supreme Court did that and it wasn't good enough for them.

[00:12:49]>> Yeah. No, they are they are moving to the next step. This is something that I've predicted. It's something other feminists and and abortion rights advocates have have warned about that they are really very proactively trying to um shift that overton window and get people used to the idea that it is okay to punish uh abortion patients. If they can't do it with life in prison or the death penalty right away, they'll try to figure out another way to do it. There was uh a bill in South Carolina, I believe, that would punish abortion patients. Their um their compromise was to move it from life in prison uh execution to a couple of years in in prison, like two years in prison. And for the first time, a a major national anti-abortion group, Students for Life, endorsed that legislation. Right? So, we are really seeing like the so-called mainstream anti-abortion movement get on board. I reported, I think it was a week or two ago, the Texas Republican Party um explicitly publicly praised and posted about on their social media accounts, abolish abortion Texas, an abolitionist group. Uh they have abolitionist language in the Republican party platform. And so this is happening. Even if these bills don't get passed um right now, they are certainly making moves towards that eventual end.

[00:14:10]And I think that we're moving a lot quicker than than some people probably realize.

[00:14:16]>> Something that I noted in coverage, local coverage from Tennessee and from North Carolina is that the people who are advocating for these types of legislation are generally men. And the people you see online who are screaming at uh the women who kind of lead the anti-abortion movement, the mainstream, it's mostly men saying, "We need to punish these women. They are committing murder. You punish murderers by putting them to death." And when anti-abortion activists who are women push back, there's basically this kind of like this weird, you're not going far enough, you're just, you know, a simple stupid woman. You don't understand what we need to be doing. Is that something you're seeing as well? I mean, obviously, I think misogyny is the underpinning of so much of the anti-abortion movement itself, but there's also a misogyny within the anti-abortion movement towards people fighting abortion.

[00:15:12]Absolutely. Your read on it is 100% correct. Um, these guys are misogynist, ultraright-wing Christian nationalists, right? Like they have a very specific idea about what women's place is. These are the same guys who don't want women to vote. Um, they are certainly not interested in listening to a female leader of an anti-abortion group. I have heard stories from women who tried to join the the abolitionist movement um just to be sort of mistreated and shunned like they don't think women are people. And so it's not hard to imagine that they're not incredibly interested in working with women, having conversations, having political conversations with women. Um they think that we should be home having babies.

[00:16:00]You've written that the abortion rights movement spends a lot of time responding to emergencies, kind of being like, "Oh, this is happening right now. We got to fight it." But it doesn't plan ahead in the way that anti-abortion activists do.

[00:16:12]So if the anti-abortion movement is moving towards abolition, where does the abortion rights movement need to go?

[00:16:19]>> Part of the problem is that for way too long, you know, the mainstream abortion rights movement, mainstream Democratic legislators, they don't take these kinds of things seriously. They think that these are outliers. They think that these are extremists. Like nothing is ever going to happen with this. We need to start taking them really seriously.

[00:16:37]And as you said, really looking ahead 10, 20, 30 years and and doing political work that is thinking decades ahead. I think part of that is really holding Republicans to account proactively and putting them on the record. You know, like pass a bill that says we will introduce a bill uh in your state in the in the the federal government that says we are never going to punish abortion patients. Surely we can all agree on that. Democrats did something similar with um cottifying the right to contraception, right? They knew it was going to pass, but they got Republicans on the record saying that they don't want to codify the right to contraception. Um I think the more that we can be talking about this and holding their feet to the fire, the better. And again, taking it seriously, um I understand I think that there's always a fear of you don't want to scare people, right? especially when there's so much confusion um and misinformation going around about abortion and what's legal and what's not. You never want to send the impression that um you know a bill is somehow a law. Like there's a lot of confusion there for people in these states where they think if you make a video about one of these bills they think oh my god can I go get an abortion or am I going to be you know put um to to death by the government. So, it's incredibly important that we're taking that into account. But this is an emergency, right? Like this is happening now and this is happening very quickly.

[00:18:05]They are electing these guys to office.

[00:18:08]Um the sooner that we can like really get on board and make this a central piece of the movement, the better.

[00:18:16]>> Jessica, as always, thank you so much for joining me.

[00:18:20]>> Thank you for having me. That was my conversation with Jessica Valente, founder of Abortion Every Day. We'll link to her Substack in the show notes.

[00:18:29]Before we go, over on the Love It or Leave It channel this week, they're hosting a two-part Pride special with a few of the most fabulous queer comedians in LA. Drag race winner Mikey Meeks, standup superstar Atskco Okatska, and the legend himself, Bruce Valanche.

[00:18:44]Plus, many more. Check out Love It or Leave It every Wednesday and Friday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:18:52]That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, congratulate former President Barack Obama, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how the Barack Obama Presidential Center, which features a library, park, museum, basketball court, and gardens officially open today like me, Water Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com/subscribe.

[00:19:17]I'm Jane Coen. And in a related note, CNN found today that Obama is the most popular living president and his popularity with independent voters is nearly twice as high as that of his successors. I miss him. Water day is a production of Crooked Media. Our show is produced by Caitlyn Plamer, Emily for Erica Morrison, and Adrien Hill. Our team includes Haley Jones, Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Joseph Dutra, Johanna Cay, and Desmond Taylor. Our music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Caner. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.