Senator clashes over trans pregnancy laws in explosive hearing

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]A biological male can't become pregnant.

[00:00:02]But the grounds of pregnancy includes potential pregnancy as well as pregnancy.

[00:00:08]>> But if they can't become pregnant, how can you then become potentially pregnant?

[00:00:13]>> It's about the unlawful treatment by the employer.

[00:00:17]>> Uh thank you Ms. Cody. If I could also or Commissioner Cody continue [laughter] uh with questions. Uh and in particular in relation to we're interpreting the law. The law this is the good news about this estimates it is literally as Senator Roberts has just said the changes in 2013 where the definition of male and female on the basis of biology was removed um has led us to this position. Um in your amicus submissions in relation to the Tickle and Giggle matter is it correct that you treated pregnancy protections in section seven as available to trans women?

[00:00:57]>> No, Senator. Clearly trans women cannot become pregnant. The discussion was around technical uh dis- meaning of the pregnancy and potential pregnancy and meanings within the Sex Discrimination Act.

[00:01:12]>> Okay. So, you weren't advocating for pregnancy protections for trans women on the basis that they can't become pregnant.

[00:01:21]>> The words relate to uh potential pregnancy that is included within pregnancy and that was the discussion.

[00:01:31]>> So, you're not advocating that trans women can potentially become pregnant though, are you?

[00:01:35]>> No, Senator.

[00:01:36]>> Yeah, because they're biological males.

[00:01:38]So, you can't obviously uh become pregnant.

[00:01:44]So, in terms did you ask the Federal Court to extend pregnancy protections to people to transgender women?

[00:01:54]>> Senator, not from my recollection.

[00:01:56]>> No, so I'm asking you what I just said the status of your submission.

[00:01:58]>> submissions we talked about the meaning of pregnancy and potential pregnancy and how that may apply.

[00:02:04]>> So, can I ask how do you see that applying in the act currently to trans women?

[00:02:15]>> Trans women, if someone is uh who applies for a job, for example.

[00:02:21]>> Yes.

[00:02:22]>> And it is a trans woman and she may be asked whether or not she intends to have children and if she replies, yes, I do, and then doesn't get the job because that employer doesn't want to employ women who uh may be of childbearing age, then she may have been subjected to unlawful discrimination on the basis of potential pregnancy.

[00:02:49]>> I I'm very confused.

[00:02:51]A biological male can't become pregnant.

[00:02:54]>> But the grounds of pregnancy includes potential pregnancy as well as pregnancy.

[00:02:59]>> But if they can't become pregnant, how can you then become potentially pregnant?

[00:03:05]>> It's about the unlawful treatment by the employer.

[00:03:09]If someone is treated unfairly on the basis of pregnancy or potential pregnancy, then that is unlawful discrimination on the basis of pregnancy.

[00:03:19]>> So, if a bloke came in and they said, are you going to have children?

[00:03:23]Which is the same question, really. And he said, oh, yeah, maybe.

[00:03:28]Are you saying that he could also claim that ground?

[00:03:33]>> If he didn't receive the job because >> But they can't get pregnant.

[00:03:37]>> No, no, not a man who is seeking uh a position, then it's not going to apply to a man.

[00:03:45]>> Well, how They're both biological men.

[00:03:47]It makes no sense.

[00:03:50]A biological man do you you you stated for a biological man can't get pregnant, am I correct? Because if I'm not, I've got to go back to school. I seriously do, cuz I missed that lesson in biology.

[00:04:01]I went to a convent school, the nuns may not have told me about it.

[00:04:05]But you said a biological man can't get pregnant.

[00:04:08]>> That's correct, Senator. But someone who is a trans woman may be assumed to be pregnant or to be able to be pregnant.

[00:04:18]>> So what stops a man putting on a dress, walking in, and claiming the protections? He's now a woman. You've admitted that.

[00:04:25]>> That would be up to a court to decide whether or not it was discrimination on the basis >> the No, no, and with all due respect, yep, it is the absurdity of the law yet again, uh which shows again the law does need to be changed because for the record, biological men, doesn't matter what way you cut it, you cannot get pregnant. And quite frankly, it is an insult to women who actually are discriminated on because they want to have children when they biologically can get pregnant. But the good news is what we're proving today is the law needs to be changed.