The Untold Story of Jewish Football Stars Lost in the Holocaust | David Bolchover

[00:00:00]Tons of millions around the world have been tuning in of course to the FIFA World Cup or even that doesn't even count those that have been going to all the various games. We know there was an exciting face-off of a well-known rivalry between England and Argentina.

[00:00:15]Well, a British author is reminding us of a forgotten chapter in the history also of football, what we call in America soccer. And his new book Digging Deep uncovers the stories of 11 Jewish football / soccer stars whose careers and lives were cut short by the Holocaust. David Bolchover, author of Digging Deep, unearthing the stories of 11 murdered Jewish footballers greats, joins us now from London. Hello and thank you.

[00:00:41]>> Thank you for inviting me.

[00:00:42]>> So, I mean this is quite a a difficult topic I'm sure to to you have to delve in to, but as we are here with the world watching the World Cup, what you know, what's your overall sense of this and and as far as Jewish athletes in general playing the sport?

[00:01:00]>> Well, unfortunately, I think there's only one Jewish participant in this World Cup. There's only one and that is Matt Turner who is reserve goalkeeper for the United States who have now been knocked out.

[00:01:13]Unfortunately, Jewish football was very well renowned before the Holocaust, not so much after it.

[00:01:23]>> So, we you start the book with a fascinating observation. You said if if you ask most Jews to name a great footballer, most would scratch their heads, especially Americans that really, you know, the football soccer players are not quite the famous ones that we get from the NBA and and the NFL for example.

[00:01:43]>> Well, I'm talking now in footballing countries. So, if you ask a British Jew for example, a football mad British Jew, and if you ask the football mad British Jew who the greatest Brazilian player was of all time, they would say Pelé. If you ask them who the greatest Argentinian player of all time, they'd start having an argument about whether it's Maradona or whether it's Messi and so on.

[00:02:06]But if you ask them who the greatest Jewish footballer of all time, they draw a blank. And actually what they probably do is they'd start smiling, even laughing. But what they're doing when they smile or laugh is actually they're laughing at the Holocaust. They're laughing at the destruction of Jewish collective memory after the Holocaust because what happened was that these great Jewish footballers existed in the minds of so many people who were also murdered. And so therefore the story stopped in its tracks.

[00:02:38]>> Wow. So this research took six years.

[00:02:41]You know, A, was there one particular player that was kind of the trigger of this opening for you know, for such a detailed long-term project?

[00:02:50]>> Well, my last book was about Béla Guttmann who's the greatest Jewish soccer coach of all time.

[00:02:55]He survived the Holocaust in Hungary and then he went on to win the European Cup twice with Benfica of Lisbon. And when I researched his life, I uncovered a whole new world, a world of which I was completely unaware even though I'm a mad football fan and have been a mad football fan since since a very early age and I'm also fascinated by Jewish history. I knew nothing about this history but when I read about Béla Guttmann, I uncovered this world because his teammates, his coaches, uh the fans, everybody so many people involved in football in Central and Eastern Europe were Jews and they very much played a significant role in the development of football as we understand it today.

[00:03:38]>> Wow. That is so so fascinating. You also hear how the Holocaust has affected so many sports. I mean you hear stories of boxers. I mean there were a lot of really great, you know, wrestlers, boxers that were many of them had to entertain the Nazis in the camps. We've heard some of these stories. Uh I imagine this spans across many sports, not just football.

[00:03:57]>> Absolutely, it does. And I focused on football for two reasons. Firstly, it's my passion. And to get through a level of research of this degree, as as you say, it took me 6 years, you need to have a passion to finish it. But also, football, of course, is the most popular sport in the world. And what this book enabled me to do, uh other than just telling the stories of these 11 players, because I had to obviously recount their situation in life, their background, and what actually happened to them in the end, I I managed to talk about the history of of the Jewish 20th century and of Zionism and the birth of Israel through through the stories of these 11 players.

[00:04:41]>> Um you know, one thing I've obviously we know soccer, I guess, is arguably the most popular sport in the world. I'm I I can't say that for sure. You will obviously know that. But is Israel kids all dream of being Messi or Ronaldo's here? So, explain the the the feeling of a full circle moment that here we are in Israel. The state country has been born, and there are a lot of promising athletes growing up here as we speak.

[00:05:04]>> Well, I I hope um my dream is to see my book translated into Hebrew. And I hope the young footballers in Israel will appreciate that following in a glorious and rich tradition of great Jewish soccer players. And what I think Israel has been lacking, they have produced very good soccer players over the years. What I think Israel has lacked is that collective self-belief, that self-confidence, that belief that we can do this. And I think if they understand that they are heirs to a great tradition, that will increase their self-confidence and and lead them to more success.

[00:05:39]>> Well, we did just wrap up the Maccabiah Games as well, which was a great for so so many players to come and be in Israel. I mean, there really is a lot of pride around athleticism and a and a resurgence.

[00:05:52]>> Absolutely. And you know, football and sports has a great history among Jews and it really arose with the Zionist movement.

[00:06:03]The Zionist philosopher Max Nordau Nordau came up with the idea of muscular Judaism. He believed that Jews should come out of their religious lifestyle that in the Yeshivot and they should get fit and they should get healthy. They should play sports and learn how to defend their own homeland.

[00:06:21]And that's how it all started and there's a great tradition of Zionist soccer clubs, Zionist sports clubs all over Central and Eastern Europe. And the Israeli clubs now Maccabi Hapoel are the inheritors of that great tradition.

[00:06:34]>> Yeah. One last thing, I know this is kind of a random thing and you know better than me cuz you know football can we count David Beckham as a Jewish footballer cuz isn't he have a he's open about having a Jewish grandparent, correct?

[00:06:46]>> Correct, he is and uh it really I think Jews have scratched around for any any great footballer they can lay their hands on and to say that they're a Jew. I mean, let's face the facts Beckham might have Jewish roots but he's not really a Jew.

[00:07:02]>> But he owns the fact he had a Jewish grandparent though, right? I mean, he's out he's open about it, correct?

[00:07:07]>> He is he is absolutely open about it but there are great Jews in history [clears throat] that we can lay claim to and we should take inspiration from them as well.

[00:07:16]>> Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Such an interesting book and a congratulations. I know clearly a labor of love and I'm sure you're a bit disappointed over the outcome but you seem pretty happy considering the loss to Argentina.

[00:07:29]>> Absolutely.

[00:07:32]There's always next time.