Muslims Are Winning Because They Have What the West Lost

Added: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]People like to say that, you know, Muslims are invading Europe, to which I always say, no, they're being invited into Europe, not invading.

[00:00:07]>> Would you say that Islam is still the major threat in the West right now?

[00:00:12]>> This is a difficult topic to address because so much mischief has been done in history. That's not appealing because I don't think that is what Christianity really is. They've turned it into that.

[00:00:21]That's one way to actually kill Christianity.

[00:00:24]All right, Raymond, I was very curious to have this conversation with you because we're both in Budapest and uh and I wanted to take that opportunity because a lot of things are happening and your work has been focusing a lot on civilizational clash between Christendom and Islam throughout centuries throughout the history. But right now it looks like our time is dealing with unprecedented challenges in a time we could say that we are in a civilizational vacuum somehow. We we're facing also artificial intelligence, transhumanism, um demographic crisis, a lot of things like that. And would you say that Islam is still the major threat in the West right now?

[00:01:14]>> I wouldn't call it the major threat. And um in fact how things have changed historically are such that um if if we were just to recap history I would say it was a major threat historically to Europe because it really was because it was a stronger it was violent. It was a sort of aggressive expansionist and most of the lands that uh Islam is over today are were originally Christian. All of North Africa and the Middle East were conquered. Portions of Europe were conquered. Spain, the Balkans, Russia was actually under the Mongol, you know, yoke, which was Tatar, Muslim also. So, and there were slave raids that went all the way to Iceland. So, historically, I would say yes, Islam was an ex existential threat.

[00:02:00]>> Today, it is only in as much as it's being made a problem, which is to say that Muslims are not uh invading Europe and conquering and forcing themselves in. they're only a problem migrants and the ones who are problematic in the sense that western leaders are allowing them to be an issue. Okay. So this is why you can look at um you know where we are right now in Hungary and we don't have this issue because all this all that Hungary had to do is just say no we don't want migrants put up a fence and that was the end of it. Same thing with countries like Poland. So I don't see today Islam as an existential threat innately. I see it as a sort of instrumental problem that is uh by the same and so to go to your question about you know transhumanism and all this sort of thing it's it's by the same people too. So the same people who are behind the other issues that you mentioned which are one can say are you know arguably more timely or more um surreptitious and more insidious at least than Islam. It's the same elements who are actually behind that who are behind the rise of Islam in the west and the empowerment of Islam in the west.

[00:03:09]>> So yeah in short I think Islam is an inherent problematic issue for anyone who is weaker than it and lives next to it or lives underneath it and is not a Muslim. This is just the way it was historically and doctrally because Islam is not doesn't believe in equality if you're not a Muslim.

[00:03:27]>> Yeah. But today it's not a strong power uh technologically, militarily, economically, which means the only reason it becomes a problem is when someone makes it a problem. This is why people like to say that, you know, Muslims are invading Europe. To which I always say, no, they're being invited into Europe, not invading. This is very important distinction to remember because a lot of people want you to think the problem is Islam itself. And maybe it is, but now the problem is not Islam itself. It's the people who are making it a problem in the west who are, I assume, not Muslims, you know, these Western leaders, these elites, whoever they are, the globalists who are responsible for flooding Western European nations with Muslim migrants, they're they are the real problem. I often give this analogy and I say, if I'm a zookeeper and I take a lion and I put him in a z a zebra enclosure >> and he attacks the zebras, who's at fault, the lion or me? I think it's me ultimately because I know the difference and I know I shouldn't be mixing these populations, but I'm doing it anyway. So in short, I do think Islam is inherently problematic, but I think the issue today is that it is being made a problem intentionally by the same sorts of people who are behind what you mentioned, transhumanism, all the other things.

[00:04:43]>> You say intentionally, what do you mean by that? Why are they invited and brought in intentionally? What is the the purpose in your view? Well, I think initially a lot of us thought that, you know, these people are doing this because they are liberal or leftist or they believe in these ideals which are, you know, trans transcend cultures and um religion and they don't believe in any of this and they're secular. So, they think all races, all cultures, all religions can mix and everyone will get along together as long as uh you know, they have their material wants and needs. And I think a lot of people, the liberals as they're called, think this way.

[00:05:20]But in increasingly I believe that the people who are engineering this don't think that because they know better because the passage of time has shown that this does not work that this leads to violence and criminality and look what's happening in you know in Britain they had this recent massive march and the native population is just sick and tired of it they say because the Muslims the migrants get so much preference and you can't even you get arrested if you tweet something you know It's it's it's crazy. So my point is if you went back 15 years ago, I would just say, okay, the elites who are doing this are just idealistic ideologues and they don't get it. But after this passage of time, everyone gets it and they haven't revised their decision. They continue doing the same thing and even pushing more and clamping down and like I said, arresting the native populations for showing any sort of resistance or even verbal disagreement. So at this point it's impossible to believe that it's not by design. And then the question of course is well why and what is their motive and that I think is open to speculation at this point uh you know what it is with this idea of globalism.

[00:06:32]Is it just hatred for the the sort of Christian culture of Europe and they want to water it down and just have it you know destroyed? Um it could be as far as I'm concerned. At this point, all of these things make sense. Uh, but whatever it is, it's obviously not it's not that they have the good or the welfare of the people who are living with them. The people that they rule over who supposedly elected them. They don't have their welfare in mind. That's obvious.

[00:07:00]>> Yes, you're pointing to a kind of discrepancy, a gap between the historical facts. Like when you see the history of the Christian minority in Muslim countries like in the Middle East, the very difficult uh coexistence between between Islam and and Christianity and these modern western leaders seems to completely underestimate uh that uh that fact. And so so you you think it's still intentional? Why why would you think why do you think they ignore such a fact? Because they would also have to pay the consequences of that. Well, I mean what you just you just bring an excellent point up, which is, you know, so I was telling you that they're doing what they're doing in Europe even though they see how bad it is for Europeans and Europeans themselves don't like what's happening to their country and the transformation.

[00:07:49]And at the same time, as you're as you're pointing out, I one of my other fields of interest that I work in and write about is the persecution of Christians in the Islamic world. And that is really horrific depending on the country. I mean places like Nigeria, a lot of uh official human rights organizations international have classified what's happening as a genocide of Christians and it really is because if you look at it for the last I don't know since I think 2009 it's something like two Christians are killed every hour >> uh in Nigeria for their faith. Um it might be a different number. It's either two Christians every hour or one every two hours. But either way it's it's a large number. Yeah, it's a large number and the fact is you would think this would be news but they don't talk about it. So this again I think validates my point which is that they are they know better but they are intentionally hiding it because I thought we were you know in America for example we have this thing which is black lives matter because one black man uh died under you know dubious circumstances and it became the end of the world and yet what I say one Christian every two hours is being butchered every single day and I don't we don't hear a word about that so those black lives don't matter. So obviously you know a black life matters or any life matters in as much as it validates a particular narrative. Okay. And the narrative that Muslims are killing Christians is one they do not want anyone to know about for the same reason they don't want people to know that in Europe uh Muslims are creating havoc amongst the people of Europe. So, I'm glad you brought that up because that's even more evidence to show that yes, obviously they know better and they know better because a lot of human rights organizations do petition governments and do testify at hearings. So, this is out in the open, but it's very seldom you'll find a politician or any of these world heads ever acknowledging it or even mentioning it. Even the Catholic pope sometimes comes under fire for not uh you know he'll talk about things and he'll I think he even recently uh just like Pope Francis his predecessor I remember where they said they talked about Christian martyrs and that's good because they highlighted the countries but they didn't highlight who's doing this to them you know which so so even with them you would think uh you know the shepherds of their flock who should be pointing out like the popes historically that you know the the crusades happened because it was the popes were trying to put an end to this sort of thing. So, you'd think they'd at least name the issue, but they don't even do that.

[00:10:20]>> Why would you think they underestimate the problem so much? I mean, if what you say is true, then they would they would somehow put themselves in danger or the the next generations.

[00:10:33]>> Well, >> if you feel like there is an impossibility to make the two coexist in the same land.

[00:10:38]>> Mhm. Well, I think it's uh the people who are doing this are, you know, what you would call the elites. And I think they just see themselves as far removed from any of these problems because they live in their own kind of transcendent world where they will never be impacted by the plebs, the plebians, whether they're Muslims or Christians who are killing each other.

[00:10:58]>> So, I think ultimately um that's that's the case for them. They just see themselves as, you know, utterly removed from reality. And maybe they are you know based on their immense wealth and um you know personal situation but then beneath them there are the people who I think are part of the world our real world who will suffer like you're saying a lot of them but I think uh like I said I think it's this extreme hatred for the traditional Christian culture of Europe >> that makes a lot of these types uh you know like you know the saying where uh the friend of you know the enemy of my enemy is my Yes.

[00:11:35]>> Okay. So, the greater enemy to them is not the Muslim. They could care less.

[00:11:39]It's the Christian.

[00:11:41]>> So, we will ally with the Muslim and be, you know, supportive of and empower them because of our hatred for the Christian.

[00:11:49]>> Why why would you why would you say that Christianity is their core enemy? Why why do they hate Christianity so much?

[00:11:56]>> Well, that's a good question, but um I think because that's the only thing that stands in their way actually. um because historically that was the sort of the the the guiding power. This is a difficult topic to address because so much mischief has been done in history and understanding the role of Christianity and how it led to the development of where we are in what's called Western civilization. I think history has been completely undermined the way it's taught so that you you don't realize the vast importance of Christianity and how it really um how it really sort of permeated everything. You know, I think and that's one of the problems with the modern Christian western kind of Christianity which is just been internalized into an individual faith, some abstract idea, you know, oh, I'm saved. I have a relationship with Jesus, but now I live purely secularly with the world.

[00:12:48]>> It wasn't like that historically. It was much more something about, you know, the culture itself. So I think they know that and in order to you know defeat and destroy and overcome that uh they have to you know focus on always attacking especially traditional Christianity.

[00:13:06]This is why, you know, you don't see this. You don't see an attack on these, you know, megaurches or these uh famous, you know, pastors, okay? They probably get supported because that's they that's okay. You can be part of that Christianity. But I'm talking about the older, more traditional, more um sort of intrinsic to Western civilization kind of Christianity, which still exists even instinctively amongst people. I think that's what they're trying to root out.

[00:13:33]So you're convinced it's all intentional because when you think about that basically the very foundation of our civilization and even what the elite is today is also the result of our Christian civilization. So why would they want to d to destroy it so bad?

[00:13:51]>> Well um because a lot of them I think obviously when I say this I don't mean everyone in the west is Christian or even if they are culturally Christian wants this. Okay. the people that you call the left or however you want to describe them, they don't believe this.

[00:14:07]So, what I'm saying, they a they just don't believe it. Um, and they think this is nonsense because like I said, most of how history is taught today, if you go to public schools in America, well, Christianity has if anything, it was a problem >> until the Enlightenment and now and and thanks to the Enlightenment, we we have the great society we have. That's how people understand it, not what I'm saying. So, I don't think most people get this. Most people because of the way Christianity is taught see it as a problem as something that you know at best we can just ignore um and at worst needs to be actually rooted out. So that's probably what uh drives some of these so-called elites.

[00:14:46]On a related issue, uh there is the question of Israel and the fact that the Israel especially after October 7, the Christian the Christians whether on the conservative world or the more liberal world are very polarized around that issue uh of Israel. And what is uh what is interesting is that even those who in the past used to recognize that Christian minorities were not treated well in uh in Muslim countries like in Syria and it is still the case right now. It tends to be completely uh I I don't know but it's something that I can see and you you you wrote about that I think a while ago about the fact that those who are criticizing very harshly Israel tend to forget about Christians Christian minorities in Muslim countries.

[00:15:40]>> Yeah, this is a very interesting phenomena that I've been watching for a long time. And the best way I can describe it is that it's uh you know imagine a seessaw you know a little kid sitting on a seesaw where one kid goes down the other one goes up and one goes down. This is in for some reason in the minds of people like everyone whether on the left or on the right they just see Israel and Islam not Israel and Iran.

[00:16:04]Okay, Israel the country and Islam the entire religion as on the seessaw which means uh so now it means that Israel is down in so far as international criticism Islam is up okay so now everyone who you know is against Israel or critical of Israel has some feels they have to be on Islam side >> and it's a really strange kind of phenomena because you can you can be against both of them you can be for both of them I don't understand this mentality but due to it like you said a lot of a lot of people are making this weird yeah you know like Tucker Carlson he seems to be the main one I spoke about him recently where you know he'll make criticisms about Israel which I think are legitimate they they should be called out and they as in these criticisms should be made known and a response should be given just like in anything else for example when in Israel they attack uh Christian symbols crosses or spit on Christians well we should know about that and we should talk about it and we should get an answer to it.

[00:17:08]But then so that's legitimate for him to do that. But then he he hops from that and all of a sudden he likes Islam. He he's protective of Islam. He doesn't talk about Christians being persecuted in the Islamic world. And that's what I don't get because when it's all said and done, if you look at the entire globe and what's happening to Christians, I alluded it to earlier, but there's this organization Open Doors and um >> and they they publish these annual reports, world watch list. That's where I got the statistic about the Nigerians um being killed and you know so as you know they have 50 countries and they rank them from the absolute worst to being to be a Christian in to it's still very bad the 50th obviously but not as bad as the first and they go from extreme persecution which is like the first 14 and then it becomes you know I I forget the but extreme is really bad and even if you're number 50 that's bad if you look at the whole list and I I do this every It's usually something like 37 or 38 of those countries are actually Muslim and the extreme the absolute worst which I said are like 13 because I looked at it recently and wrote about it. It was something like 11 were Muslim. Okay. And in those those extremely bad ones, okay, they're basically if you're if you're exposed as a Christian, you might get killed or thrown in jail. That's how bad it is.

[00:18:29]Okay. So for him or and I'm not picking on him but anyone but a lot of people are doing what he's doing which is because we're critical of Israel we now have to suppress uh what's happening anything bad that Muslims do which just >> yeah it's a surprising asymmetry with >> it's a complete ridiculous asymmetry because first of all as I've shown in my book Sword and Scimitar and so forth before Israel came into being for literally 1300 years Islam was waging war on the Christian world. So we don't need Israel to exist or not exist to be able to understand what Islam is.

[00:19:04]>> But everyone now is trying to see Islam through the lens of Israel is bad, therefore Islam is good. And um it's really unfortunate because they should they people need to separate these two from their mind and judge them, you know, accordingly. Um and and if and you can keep them of course connected in as much as Israel is at war with certain Muslim nations, okay? Iran, for example, I've talked about that and how that works. But to, you know, to become to to start thinking, oh, Christians in the Muslim world are okay and Muslims in the m migrant Muslims are okay in Europe because I'm against Israel. That's just a a bad way of thinking. Mhm. And now when I'm thinking about the west and there is an undeniable expansion of Islam in the west and then of course once one has to think about how how to deal with that and what it it is changing a lot of our landscape as well.

[00:19:59]Uh first of all I've noticed also this paradoxical reality that we tend to think like you say that we are in you know you we see Muslims as invaders and and things like that but at the same time what I see and what priests told me is that most of the time when you are very uh open about your faith uh and you really are a Christian although Muslims especially when they are in the majority they tend to despise Christianity But in the west on the on the in the everyday life they tend to respect much more a real Christian living with Christian principles than atheist uh atheist westerners for instance that are only very materialistic or only on social media without any ideals and values. And it's true that some people point to the fact that it's very difficult to integrate young Muslims into a society that has no ideals and no religion and no transcendence. What is your view on that?

[00:21:01]>> No, I agree with that. That's absolutely correct. Um, Muslims Okay. So, it's funny because to Muslims, atheists who tend to be liberal and secular are much more useful to them. So they approve of atheists more because it's good for them, but they have contempt for the atheist because they look at them as just hedonists who have no morality, immoral. I mean, they call them animals often times and they use terms like that. Whereas if they look at a Christian, they know the Christian if if they're being a very conservative true Christian who's uh, you know, not going to be playing doormat for them, they obviously that's not good. But they respect that Christian. So they see the that Christian as you know an obstacle for them. But on the other hand they respect him because because that Christian has many of the values they have. Okay. He believes in God. He has a faith. He believes in morality sexual mores uh you know that the family that sort of thing. So they can at least respect him even though he's he's he's a problem you know. So politically this is why you see all the time Muslims politically siding with the left and you know the Green Party and the liberals.

[00:22:11]They have nothing but contempt for them.

[00:22:13]>> Yes. Okay.

[00:22:14]>> It's just clientalism.

[00:22:15]>> Yeah.

[00:22:16]>> But it's but it's they're exploiting their stupidity. Okay. But uh but if it came down to and this is also why you often see conservatives and Christians who are involved, you know, they'll have a conservative protest and you'll actually find Muslims support of it. In America, for example, lots of Christians always run to Muslims for support when it comes to anti-LGBT stuff because the Muslims are known to be very vocal against it and good for them and the Christians can't do it without Muslim help. So, they like to go and uh you know, unite with them in that sense. Okay. So yeah, I do think uh yeah, culturally, this is the funny thing, Muslims culturally are ultra ultra everything that the most um tradition can ever hope to be. Okay, they're ultra patriarchal. They're ultra-conservative. Um but it doesn't it politically in the West, they vote liberal because that's what accommodates them.

[00:23:10]>> But they respect those who have very strong views, >> of course. Yeah.

[00:23:13]>> And uh that that's that's an interesting an interesting factor. And you just mentioned this masculinity.

[00:23:19]It's really something I should u I I I would like to discuss with you because we have also this phenomenon in the west of young men feeling somehow lost philosophically uh spiritually and then they meet Islam and it's a religion that proposes discipline uh transcendence of course and very strong masculinity and uh and so we have a number of young men converting to even women as well because they they like the fact that Muslim men are more manly and like more masculine >> in in in the way in their demeanor. Uh why why do you think it's happening? How >> how is it even possible in in the West?

[00:24:08]Well, it's happening again. This goes back to the idea that I believe Christianity has been so emasculated and stripped from its original manifestation and to the point that no one today who's a Christian can envision Christianity without thinking of it as being a very emasculated eeminized religion.

[00:24:26]Honestly, um when I and I've experienced this too growing up, um you know, in America because even though I'm of Orthodox background, Coptic Orthodox, born and raised in America, I was very much Protestantized. You can't help it because everything around you is very Protestant. And um the the end of it is that I just felt to be a true Christian, I had to just, you know, I just have to act like a woman essentially. You know, I can never be militant. I can never be assertive. I can never be judgmental. I just have to be uh you know just very passive. It's a religion about being passive and crying and feeling bad about yourself and um and never you know standing up and you get this image. And so if that is what Christianity is, are you shocked that men are not finding it appealing and that men are leaving it?

[00:25:15]>> Uh and and then you bring Islam which does have these natural components, you know, the masculinity. Men are men, women are women. There's no confusion there. Okay. Warfare. Okay. They have jihad. Okay. We Well, and so now the issue though is um the reason Western men would turn and convert to Islam is because they don't believe in Christianity. What what Islam offers is even possible. But actually their own Christian tradition does have it historically. the, you know, for for much longer in history, Christianity was more like Islam in the sense that it was masculine and patriarchical and um very conservative than what we're seeing today. This is more recent what we're seeing today. But historically and and all one has to do is look at the medieval era, the crusaders and uh you know the kings and the way they all lived and the women too were very feminine. Everyone understood, you know, their >> Do you think it was real Christianity in a way?

[00:26:12]>> To me, yes. I think it was very much real Christianity. Actually, I like ritualistic Christianity. I like Christianity that permeates the society more than this. It's some feeling in my heart and just like I I talk to myself and I'm saved. Um, I think that's great.

[00:26:27]I'm not a I'm not um against anyone who does that, but I actually think Christianity was meant to be something that actually permeates and infuses a society, which is the whole concept of a kingdom, you know, then then as opposed to I think that's one of the tricks today, which is, you know, how to strip Christianity out of the world is you convince everyone, no, no, it's about you and God and your mind and uh keep it to yourself.

[00:26:51]>> Okay. Yeah. Well, that's that's one way to actually kill Christianity. But how were the crusades Christians in your view? How would you justify the crusades?

[00:27:00]>> You mean because they engage in violence?

[00:27:02]>> Yeah. Now even a lot of church leaders but in like even maybe not in orthodoxy but a lot of church leaders would would say yeah it was just taken in a historical context >> and it's not something we can justify now as Christians. Why do you what what would you answer to that? It all comes down to one question which is what is just war? Okay. And uh just war is basically the idea which the church the Catholic church um and even the Orthodox church they believe in that concept of course because the orthodox church also went to war all the time but the idea of just war is uh is it just and according to Christian theologians Augustine's one of the the most cited but it even goes back before him who looked at the Bible and looked at Jesus's words and things that he said they concluded that yes warfare for just causes is legitimate.

[00:27:57]and Christian Christian in the sense that it's not uncchristian.

[00:28:01]One of the most obvious ways they pointed to this is they spoke about the centurion where who comes to Jesus and asks for a miracle for his servant. And then you know Jesus usually when he performs a miracle which he did um tells the person to repent of what they what they do you know the the prostitute the the tax collector whoever and uh for this man who was a centurion who's in charge of you know a century of legionnaires who has blood on his hand he didn't tell him you have to go quit the army so for early Christian theologians that was an implicit uh concession that yes sometimes you have to have warfare and there's a lot of other verses actually in the New Testament that that support this uh and we can get into that but the point is that Christians from a very early stage had no problem with warfare as long as it's for a just cause a just cause would be self-defense defending the weak recovering uh conquered territory so when we talk about the crusades all of those were met actually every single one of those uh the Holy Land as I was alluding to earlier All of the Middle East was Christian. It was conquered. Muslims at the time were persecuting Christians horrifically.

[00:29:17]They were attacking, desecrating churches, attacking sacred sites. Okay?

[00:29:22]So, it was seen completely as a just war. So, that's why I don't, you know, I don't for me there was no problem. My last book is uh called the two swords of Christ deals with the military orders.

[00:29:34]So, these guys were actually the most pious of Christians at the time. They were essentially monks, okay, who lived who took vows of poverty and chastity and obedience. And at the same time, they were engaged in extreme warfare. So they had no problem with this because to them actually the warfare was seen as a manifestation of love, believe it or not. And that's how they talked about it for for the pilgrim who was being attacked by the Muslim. And you know for them they had entire rituals and it was important for them for example not to engage in warfare under anger. In other words what they were doing wasn't for revenge or for anger. It was seen again as love and protection.

[00:30:14]>> So uh for me I've never had any problem.

[00:30:16]I don't think in historically the Christian theologians had no problem with just war. And but that's exactly the point. Now they've it's become so hard to envision a Christian engaged in violence and that's because we are materialists. philosophically.

[00:30:32]You know, we who are Christians, even though we claim to be metaphysical and we believe in beyond the physical, when we act this way, when we say the worst thing you can possibly do is physical harm, that just proves we're materialists. But medieval Christians actually, yeah, you don't want to physically hurt. It's bad. But there's even greater things. Morality, the metaphysical world, okay, which is much more important. So that actuated them to warfare. Whereas for us, the worst thing you can do is physical because we're literally materialists, which is synonymous with being atheists. We just don't know it.

[00:31:06]>> Yeah. But that's a vision that is difficult to reconcile with today's world. And when I'm seeing all these young men um seeking refuge with more trad communities, whether in Catholicism or even some >> even some Protestants, they you have a lot more and more men being attracted to these >> movements. And how would you uh avoid a greater separation from these men and the rest of society and and women for instance because there is a crisis demographic crisis and and the lack of connection between men and women. So how how would you address that?

[00:31:42]>> The separation between men and women in the west.

[00:31:44]>> Yeah. It's very Yeah.

[00:31:45]>> You mean the fact that they're not getting married and procreating?

[00:31:48]>> Yes. And there there is this kind of course there are some women that are looking for more uh Yes. maybe some greater masculinity, but it's not a majority. So, how would you address the risk of greater divide between men and women in the West? Well, see that's the problem because what what I'm talking about is, you know, the Islam issue, the the the true Christianity versus the false Christianity. All of this has because they are being wared against and in Western civilization has been stripped from its original mooring um is coalesing into what you're seeing which is men and women don't get married. uh the rise of sexual deviency and uh no procreation and abortion and you know all that mentality that is the net result of what happens to a people when they stop believing in the metaphysical in God in something that transcends the material okay the physical world and um with this is why without going back to those original roots yeah it's it's over I mean you just see what what you just described Exactly. And it's going to get worse and worse. You know, the the drop in birth rates, women and men can can't even get along. Marriages never last.

[00:33:06]People don't even get married. What's the point? It's seen. And it's funny because if you just go back a few generations ago, none of this was a problem.

[00:33:13]>> Everyone got married and they got married young and they had lots of children. They were like the Muslims in that sense that, you know, yes, they got married and they had lots of children and it was healthy and it was normal and sure they had problems, but that's life, right? But now you know it's it's just people's mentality has been so subverted about reality and expectations and stripped away from you know again tradition that you have what you have.

[00:33:39]On a related issue again there is the fact that in the west and in Europe and I've witnessed that a lot on the field as a journalist um the expansion it's undeniable there is an undeniable expansion of Islam across Europe for instance and it's also causing it's also prompting a lot of young men and women to rediscover their own faith and I think it's a very very interesting element in this current expansion of Islam. It's also seems to be creating a kind of revival an awakening of a lot of young um westerners who used to they grew up in a materialistic world uh completely secularized world and somehow the fact that they have many Muslim friends who are so unapologetically Muslims and they live their faith and they do Ramadan >> without any kind of hostility. These young people are saying, "Wait, but it's beautiful that they have roots, that they believe in something, they have transcendence, and they're following some customs, some traditions. Why why can't I do the same? Wait, my ancestors were doing Lent?" And so you have this kind of epidemic in in a positive sense of young men and women on TikTok uh for for instance in France for Ash Wednesday they all proudly displayed their cross on the on the forehead and they were like oh I'm rediscovering land and and many of them when I talked to them they said no because they had my Muslim friends and I got to be jealous because they were doing the Ramadan and and it's something that is so structured and it's discipline and it's something I need and it's so vertical and that's about transcendence. So it's very interesting.

[00:35:29]It seems to be prompting also a lot of like this awakening in in different countries.

[00:35:34]>> Yeah. No, this is a good thing. I think this is in an inadvertent uh positive development that okay, if you're a western person, you were born and raised in the west, you're just going to be conditioned by all those forces which is you have to be secular, keep your Christianity at home, you know, keep it in your heart. It's an idea about you being saved and that's the end of it and don't talk about it. And then you bring these Muslims who are not raised that way and at the same time the western system props them up and lets them do whatever they want and then they expo they express the external sort of manifestation of their religion. Yeah.

[00:36:06]Then western people go you know on the one hand some don't like it obviously but on the other hand they get jealous like you said and they're like wait I thought we couldn't do that and that does look appealing and what about my own tradition? Why can't I do that? So yeah, I think that's actually a good um uh one of the rare but good uh side effects or byproducts of having Muslims actually in the west.

[00:36:27]>> What could be the possible evolution >> dynamic? Yes. In the west in Europe?

[00:36:33]>> Uh you mean based on >> Yeah. Do you think it's something temporary or could could it be something that could it be something lasting >> as as far as like trying to reclaim their Christianity?

[00:36:43]>> Yes. No, I think there's actually a a strong move going towards that very much. Um, especially when people realize that Christianity is not just about some abstract idea and I just don't do anything and I lay down and I become a doormat and I'm virtuous. That's not appealing and uh rightfully so because I don't think that is what Christianity really is. They've turned it into that.

[00:37:08]You know who benefits from the kind of current current Christianity? The current Christianity is accommodating of anything. It, you know, turns the other cheek. It It looks at evil and it says, "I'm not going to judge. Who am I to judge?" Well, you you know who who loves that kind of Christianity? People who hate Christianity because it serves their purposes. And so, I'm not surprised that that's the kind of Christianity that's so popular and promoted and sponsored and everywhere on television and, you know, like I mentioned these megaurch kind of phenomena. Um, >> but it's also a real part of Christianity, right?

[00:37:40]>> What is >> like Uh, you know, >> well, exactly. Of course.

[00:37:43]>> Humility.

[00:37:44]>> Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm not arguing that.

[00:37:46]>> I'm glad you brought this up so no one misunderstands. I'm not arguing that Christianity is revolutionary in that it introduces these topics of humility and modesty and love and tolerance and forgiveness. I'm I'm not arguing that at all. But it's been pulled so out of context. It's been so extreme as if there's nothing else. You know, that that this is it. Okay. I mean, you know, there's a lot of uh Jesus himself who told us turn the other cheek. There's one instance in the entire Bible where he does get slapped. He didn't turn the other cheek. So, you have to understand that there is some, you know, symbolism and and room for interpretation. He actually challenged the man who who struck him and said, "Why'd you challenge me? He didn't turn the other cheek." So, we have to be, you know, smart in how we apply uh this. But what is revolutionary about Christianity is that okay, it came up with these ideas and then it gave balance. And that is for example what chivalry is.

[00:38:38]>> Okay, Islam doesn't have chivalry.

[00:38:40]Chivalry and I don't mean chivalry, you know, in the popular mentality. It's a guy putting his coat on a puddle so a woman can walk on it. I don't mean that.

[00:38:47]That's not chivalry. Chivalry is sort of Yeah. You're masculine, but you you temper your masculinity and channel it into good good stuff. Yeah. So, you do love, you do forgive, and you strive to forgive and you but you don't. But here's the difference. Okay.

[00:39:04]Historically, Christianity, and I can't find anything in the Bible at all that would support the idea that I'm supposed to be tolerant of sin. It's you're supposed to be tolerant of a sinner.

[00:39:14]>> You're supposed to correct them. You're supposed to forgive them. But we live in a society where now it's been turned into, oh, I have to be tolerant of sin.

[00:39:22]I have to be okay with sin. I have to let sin. I have to celebrate sin. Okay?

[00:39:26]No. That is not in any way, shape, or form Christianity. So yeah, I'm all for those virtues, but they have to be in a in a healthy normal balance, which I believe is what the Bible, including the New Testament, teaches. Um, and again, in the context of, for example, just warfare, uh, which applies itself in all sorts of ways. I mean, think about it.

[00:39:48]We, okay, Christians will talk about being passive and and and would so why do we have police? Shouldn't we as Christian societies not have an army, not have police and because they do violence, right? So why don't we because we understand that without that the entire society will fall apart and all sorts of injustices will be committed.

[00:40:07]>> So we have to be a little intelligent and yes, Christianity does have those very positive uh components, but they're being exploited to weaken Christianity today intentionally. Okay. By by not giving them any balance in a in a whole normal system that still still has you know normal way of thinking about the world >> and in in this process of reshaping our societies. I think maybe that's the reason why you wrote your book defenders of the west to bring back some heroic figures uh back to the west and for people to draw inspiration uh out of their lives and their heroicity.

[00:40:47]What maybe if you could just quote maybe two or three great heroes that could really inspire young people here in in in a way that is not anacronic.

[00:40:57]>> Uh what what would be these two or three figures for instance?

[00:41:01]>> Well, I wrote about eight men and honestly they all share similarities. So most of them were either kings or high nobles. Okay. Um you know the king Louie for example, St. Louie and or you have you know Godfrey of Buon uh who was of course the Duke and you have others King Ferdinand of Spain and then here in the Balkans of course you had you know voy voids or governors John Hunyatti and so forth but in all of them what's heroic and what's impressive is because they were high ups and nobles and kings they could have taken an easy life they didn't have to do anything but they actually applied themselves the French king Louie for example went on two crusades and ended up dying in the second one and he was one of the wealthiest kings of Europe and uh he didn't have to do any of this but he and he what would he cite he would cite the suffering of fellow Christians in the holy land or the desecration of churches and this was just an affront for him this was worse than warfare because this was a a metaphysical blasphemy um and an injustice what was happening to fellow Christians so all of them uh you know sacrificed everything they had. Okay.

[00:42:15]And they had a lot to lose. They these weren't peasants who could have you know in their life the way it's portrayed nowadays you know anyone who goes on a crusade a lot of them supposedly were poor and just wanted to go get new lands. So that did didn't apply to these men at all and most a lot of them died doing that. So that is immensely I think um inspiring and heroic to see someone who look at our leaders in the west who are powerful and rich you know they don't do anything they don't go to war they send people to war of course um unjust wars often times so and and all these men also the majority of them were very pious again St. Louie. Um, I guess I'm using him because I know you're French, so I'm >> um I think he's Yeah, he's pretty ideal actually and one of the ones I really like as well. Um, so very pious man who would actually he's the king and he used to do things like feed he would feed the poor with his own hand and take care of them. I think at before he would eat and he would insist on the ones who were possibly I think blind because he didn't want them to know who he was because that would be too flattering and you know he wanted to be modest so he doesn't want them to know so imagine that kind of mentality and very wealthy very powerful and what does he do he goes constantly and risks his own life twice he was the first crus his first crusade he was jailed in Egypt and could have died um and then he was ransomed and then he went again and he and I think one of his sons also died um somewhere in Tunisia or Carthage. Um so but all of these men were the same and very religious and they cited they always cited okay why were they doing this they would site Christian civilization they would site their homes they would site their cultures things that I think resonate with people today you know western people this is why we're fighting for something meaningful um and that's why I think and that's why a lot of people do find them heroic and inspiring >> and would you quote maybe one or two great feminine figures that could be an inspiration both for men and and women like because of the way they lived >> family like like a husband >> a model for today's society for of course the Virgin Mary but maybe a closer example in our history who would you quote for instance who would you mention >> well I'll stick with defenders of the west because I know them and there are families um and in fact Louis again sorry I keep coming to him but I know he was married and he had many children um and very and his mother I think it's Blanch Yeah, Blanchch. Yeah, very pious woman and the way she raised him and her sister was married to one of the kings of the Spain and she was the mother of Ferdinand who was also sainted and you know so you can see in that family very the mothers were very pious. They were so involved in the religious um instruction of their children, both of them, Louisie and and Ferdinand Fernando. And um they were, you know, married, of course, and they had many children. So this to me is the ideal marriage. You know, the man's the man, the woman's the woman, they have a good family, they have many children, the woman's raising them properly, cuz that's very important. Of course, nowadays, people don't think that raising a child matters. You just put him in front of the internet and he's supposed to be raised that way. um as if as if the idea of a woman being at home is is a waste of her time. It's actually very important, you know, for someone to take care of this child and who's going to care more than his mother, I imagine.

[00:45:45]So, yeah, those families and all of those families in fact during that era were very much like that. Um I mentioned Godfrey of Buon and he was the same thing. His mother, I remember reading about how she was very committed to the religious upbringing of all her kids including Godfrey. So you can see a chain, you know, how children are raised and then how they become like these men and women and and you see that here too, how they're raised, that is to say, they're not raised or raised improperly and then how they do become in the end.

[00:46:19]>> Yeah, that's very interesting. Thank you very much for the conversation.

[00:46:22]>> Thanks Sen.

[00:46:23]>> Thank you very much. Bring back the fight.

[00:46:28]Bring back the flame.

[00:46:31]Bring back the fire and the rightous name.