Godlogic and 3 Christian Apologists vs 1 Hebrew Israelite | Daniel 7

[00:00:00]Ashin Yehuda, how you doing, man?

[00:00:02]>> Brother, brother, it's been a minute since I talked to you. How you been?

[00:00:05]>> Yeah, it's been a minute.

[00:00:06]>> My favorite Christian in the world.

[00:00:10]>> Shalom. Shalom. Last time we was about Isaiah 49. And I got to say that was one of my favorite conversations with a Christian. I wanted to talk to you about your interpretation of Daniel 7 >> in regards to Jesus being God >> about the uh keshi eline meaning many most high ones instead of just saints of the most high. Um, I'm ready to take a listener seat for a moment because I did do a response video mainly rebuking the people and I obviously given my analysis of the language, but I wanted to hear, you know, where you heard this interpretation like is there any material that I could look at with you today to kind of get where you coming from?

[00:00:57]>> Well, so I was looking at I was checking out the uh the Aramaic or the Hebrew.

[00:01:04]Mhm.

[00:01:04]>> Well, that's that's written in Aramaic.

[00:01:05]So, I was checking out the Aramaic and I saw that most high was plural in a lot of those instances while also there was another instance in the same chapter where it's singular. Like I actually I think it's in the same verse where he uses the singular and it uses the plural again. I think it's in verse 25 if I'm not mistaken. Um or 27, one of those.

[00:01:26]But you have uh so I saw that and I thought that that was like I was like whoa most high is in the plural. Well that would kind of make sense if the son of man who's ruling with the ancient of days um who has the same nature as the ancient of days is also identified as the most high. So it makes sense that the most high would be in the plural there.

[00:01:48]>> Can we walk through it together if you want to put it on the screen?

[00:01:52][snorts] >> So let me see here.

[00:01:55]What was it again?

[00:01:57]>> Everybody else as well. Elijah, I've had the pleasure of talking with you and had the pleasure talking with you. How you doing?

[00:02:03]>> You spoke to Elijah.

[00:02:05]>> Yeah, he don't like me too much, but we had the pleasure of talking. Fearless truth. Shalom. I haven't had the pleasure of talking to you. I don't mean to alienate.

[00:02:13]>> So, you spoke to Elijah and I'm your favorite Christian.

[00:02:16]>> Yeah, for sure.

[00:02:17]>> Crazy. You actually able to finish the conversation. Elijah was like, I don't know why you He's like, I don't know why you doing what you doing. I don't like it. Fair enough. I I'll rub everybody the right way.

[00:02:29]>> I don't remember who you are, bro. No disrespect.

[00:02:32]>> Um, we talked about Deuteronomy 20.

[00:02:36]>> You was on Well, you're on TikTok, Ash.

[00:02:38]>> No, I don't get on TikTok yet. I don't know if I can do it. It's too much going on. Like, when I see how there's so many people that's ready to give an answer instead of just shove and learn, it is too much for me.

[00:02:49]>> It's overwhelming.

[00:02:50]>> So, so what did you want to walk through? uh like how far did you want to walk through just those most high verses or like what what did you want to >> really what I wanted to know um is how much of the context did you observe in relation to the language that allowed you to carefully to to comfortably land at this is indeed talking about a plural of most highs.

[00:03:14]>> Yeah. All so all of it. So in context, it's the context of the rulership of the son of man and the ancient of days uh in that context of them ruling. That's why it made sense for me to have that conclusion when most high is plural.

[00:03:29]>> Gotcha. the the reason why I I shouldn't make an assumption. Um it's it's more so me trying to afford a courtesy, but it was to me it seemed like, okay, the brothers seen that, got excited, it was like, I can't wait to hit somebody with that. And you know, I've been there. Um, but you didn't see any scholars like echo the same opinion on it or look at any commentaries, any linguistic walkthroughs? Cuz I'm I'm asking more out of concern and before I start to walk through my analysis, I just really wanted to see what all you was able to absorb and what all you know about Aramaic and especially Hebrew.

[00:04:08]>> I just saw it in the text, brother. So, if as to just to to get straight to the punch. All right. If you're if you think that I'm wrong on like if Elonin does not demonstrate that there's a plurality of persons who are identified as the most high, if you're if you think I'm incorrect on that in the context, I'm open ears. Okay, I appreciate that. So, the first thing that I look at um before I try to do any type of interpreting of a text, I try to do a background analysis on it.

[00:04:40]>> For example, when I'm looking at a Genesis >> or I get the verse by the way.

[00:04:45]>> You said what?

[00:04:46]>> So, we're in Daniel 7. There's there's a few verses that we're talking about. So, there's verse there's verse uh 22, I think it is.

[00:04:54]>> Yeah. Yeah. And this part might be a little bit longwinded and I'll try to >> I'll try to shorten it up.

[00:05:00]>> Just giving him the verses.

[00:05:02]>> Verse 22, verse 25, and uh verse 27.

[00:05:07]>> Okay. Thank you.

[00:05:09]So the first things I like to do before I will do an interpretation of a text is I try to get a background on it. So we'll use a contrasting text like Genesis. Um where are they getting their material? Because if they're speaking in a community of people, they're obviously going to speak using references that one another would understand. While albeit the languages may differ, they're able to kind of connect through concepts that they can relate in. Um, the same thing with Daniel. So when I look at Daniel and then I look at the people who interpreted Daniel, like the quote unquote Kuman community, you're looking at, of course, apocalyptic literature, how they interpreted it, but you're looking at um heavenly council language.

[00:05:56]So when I look at the heavenly council, I do see a plural of gods there.

[00:06:03]So it's not necessarily an argument for me whether or not there are a plural of gods but the question would be are they all most high. The answer would be no.

[00:06:14]Of course I would look at scholars like u say for example Michaeliser and you know there are many scholars that follow in his view that the council the heavenly council or heavenly court is about 70 deities maybe even more. That's not >> That's the primary view of them and how they look at the heavenly council. The second view is really quick for sure.

[00:06:39]>> So are you saying that Michael Heiser holds the view that the heavenly council is made up of actual gods >> held held the view I would I would say respectfully but yeah he talked about the divine council all the time.

[00:06:51]>> Yeah. But did he because I I I'm aware of his work. Are you saying that he believed that these were actual gods by nature or I think rulers?

[00:07:00]>> Yeah. So, so that that's where we disagree. Um because I it's funny because I actually just had a debate on this idea of whether or not there are multiple gods by nature in the Bible and Michaeliser was a is a huge resource that a lot of people tend to misrepresent. And Michael Heiser is pretty clear when it comes to the heavenly council, when it comes to uh Deuteronomy, it's um I think it's 32 that they try to misuse >> that. [clears throat] But with the sons of God, the sons of God, that these aren't these aren't gods by nature. And the scripture even says that these aren't gods by nature. The only true God is is Yahweh. So the text say God by nature or the people who are arguing their purview are saying God's by nature.

[00:07:46]>> Yeah. So like if you're talking about the text and the text Elohim [clears throat] Elohim obviously we already know is used in many different contexts. Right.

[00:07:53]>> Right. Right. Right.

[00:07:54]>> You can be you can be an Elohim but not be like an actual God by nature. But you can be an Elohim in the sense that you're judging that you have an authority or something like that. You represent God in a way. Right. So that's the sons of God or the heavenly council.

[00:08:09]That's what they're made of is is judges but not actual like truly divine beings.

[00:08:15]Like they're not actual gods. There's only one actual god which is >> very interesting. So I would say that either here nor there. I don't mind that it says that there's multiple guard god.

[00:08:30]So, it's not like really an issue, but I do want to get at the most high aspect of it. Because then when we talk about the heavenly council, what is acknowledged no matter how many other deities are present, one thing that's given up when you deal with the ancient near east is that the ancient of days is the one that heads the council.

[00:08:50]He is the most high one over the council. So, that takes precedent in my interpretation. And the next thing that I would incorporate are the rules of Hebrew. I would look at what the leading philologist would say about how languages can be connected. I want to find the brother, the guy's name. His name is Takamitsu uh Moroa. I don't know if that's how you pronounce it properly. I think it's a Japanese name. That's neither here nor there. But he's one of the leading philologists. And I share his opinion that when you read biblical Aramaic, you should read it with the rules of Hebrew in mind. So are there any indicators in the Hebrew text or the um Aramaic text that say that we should adopt that this is a plural most high?

[00:09:43]>> But no, I I would disagree. I I think that one throughout Genesis all the all the way up in till till Daniel you'll have that the most high is seen as multiple multi-personal.

[00:09:55]>> You'll see.

[00:09:57]>> So I don't want to do that. I want to be technical with the text. Like you know what I'm saying? One thing we get on Christian or one thing we get on Christians about is context. One thing Christians get on Israelites about is context. And I agree that those things are very important. But in order to understand context, I think it's important to deal with the source material. And if you're going to analyze a text to find out if um a noun is a singular or a plural, you have to look at what the verbs are doing. And this is why I bring up like a Genesis. So despite the background material of Genesis, I want to show my example and then we'll kind of pedal it back to Daniel 7 if I may. I'm going go to the blue letter Bible real quick and I'mma pull up Genesis. if you want to put it on the screen that way we can make a show of it. I kind of want to talk about one of the rules of Hebrew and how this can kind of help in the interpretation of a given text because again these are Hebrew speakers using Aramaic and the leading philologist says that this should be the background of our examination of the the Aramaic. So you don't so you don't believe that the son of man is divine like uh one in essence with the father. I don't even know how you are gauging what you're saying. Like I've heard the the sayings, but that's not a good way to prove that that's what Daniel is saying when it says um saints of the most high. Like you don't prove that Daniel 7 and 18 says saints of the most high ones by saying but this text over here says something because I I think it's disrespectful and I believe it's then out of context.

[00:11:39]So I'm a little confused because you're you're talking about interpreting Daniel by using [clears throat] something else >> by using linguistics. So using Hebrew linguistics. So not using concepts but using linguistics. Concepts come in when you study the background. But linguistic rules that that is the the second thing that comes in. So now we're talking about >> this is where this is where I disagree.

[00:12:03]Like it's because it sound I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I and I I think that there's a I guess you're putting too much emphasis on uh I guess uh the the the wording or the ruling and grammar or something like that. I guess it sounds like you're trying to like hyper emphasize that >> rather than what is being said here in the context just simply.

[00:12:25]>> Do you think that's fair though? Like cuz you you put an emphasis on the grammar when you said this means plural most high. So, you know, where does where do we put the ruler to say now you're I'm overdoing it when I'm analyzing how much >> you're saying you're you're saying that I cannot see like you're asking where do I get this idea from?

[00:12:48]>> But [clears throat] I see that most high is in the plural in the language, right?

[00:12:52]>> That that's an actual plurality of persons.

[00:12:55]>> Yes. Because there's >> and then my answer and then my answer to that is well contextually I see that there are two in the context of Daniel 7 the ancient of days and the son of man that are ruling eternally and have authority over all creation. And on top of that, I had we have supplementary this supplementary this concept supplemented by the Torah before when we see another person with the father ruling, having authority, being creator, being identified as Yahweh himself. And so all of that is is consistent.

[00:13:32]>> I respect that.

[00:13:33]>> Come to the conclusion.

[00:13:35]>> I respect that. My my advice would be you write down all of those things and I would I would chalk them up as suspicions until you prove them to be exactly what you're seeing. So I would write them all down as suspicions and what I would do is analyze whether or not the grammar lends to a final conclusion, not an assumption about those are literally pre presuppositions, right? So can we put I kind of want to show why I'm saying this. I know I'm moving a little quick. I'm trying to say a lot real fast. Can we put Genesis 1 on the screen because I want to talk about rules of language?

[00:14:10]>> You want to talk about Elohim?

[00:14:12]>> Yeah, we'll talk about Elohim a little bit and we want to talk about how do we figure out whether this Elohim here is plural or whether or not it's singular.

[00:14:22]>> Isn't Elohim a noun?

[00:14:24]>> It is.

[00:14:26]>> Or it could be >> Elon is an adjective.

[00:14:30]>> That's right. Descriptive. So these are two different things, right?

[00:14:34]>> But there are still rules to how you do it. I want to talk about how you use these rules because the top philologists say that you should take the rules of Hebrew and let them lend to your interpret interpretation of what's going on in the Aramaic as well.

[00:14:49]>> What what what top scholars are you talking about and what like who are these people that you're appealing to as an authority and like cuz like we're we're really you said you're talking fast. I feel like we're dragging it and we're like we haven't even got any point yet.

[00:15:04]>> Well, what I'm saying is I feel like I'm talking fast. I feel like I'm trying to say a lot really quickly. So, I may be rushing past certain things, but the the philologist that I'm talking about right now is Takamitsu Mura Oka. He's an expert in Seemetic languages.

[00:15:23]>> Who are these people?

[00:15:25]>> I just said he's an expert in Seemetic languages. But like what what what is their what are their beliefs? What what school do they come from? Like you know what I'm saying? Who are these people?

[00:15:36]>> Let me see if I could pull that up for you real quick because I think that's a fair question. If his school makes him valid or invalid >> or his and his beliefs as well, like what's his doctor?

[00:15:50]Who are these people? [clears throat] >> Okay, let me see if I can find that on Mr. Takamora.

[00:15:58]So >> just to speed this up, is there is there anything in the context of Daniel 7, brother? Because this is like this is really really slow. Is there anything in the context of Daniel 7 that suggests otherwise that there's a multiple that there's a plurality of persons who are the most high?

[00:16:15]>> No. Nothing at all. Especially when you start to adopt the ancient of days concept because in every philosophy or every ideology or the background that the ancient of days come from which is not the Hebrews the the ancient of days is the most high one preciding over the court.

[00:16:37]And so whether or not it's literal, it's a concept being conveyed and if this vision is using a concept to convey a message, then we should yield to that and then the grammar before we make an assumption about what it's trying to say. So I would say nothing lends to the idea that there's a trinity up there.

[00:16:58]>> Is the son of man also ruling over the council?

[00:17:01]>> No. the the son the son of man is ruling over the whole earth just like any king that the most high anoints is >> he doesn't rule in the heavens as well.

[00:17:12]>> Yeah, he does next to the father but he does not rule over the father.

[00:17:17]>> So I agree. He doesn't rule over the father. He rules with the father. So if he's ruling with the father that means he's ruling over the council too, right?

[00:17:24]>> No, not in Daniel 7. Um, let's go to Daniel 7 and we could go to the part, but I feel like this is getting away from the fundamentals. I feel like >> we're right. We're finally actually talking about something.

[00:17:38]>> This is not fundamentals because you can make assertions about what a text is saying and I really wanted a chance to demonstrate it with you rather than it just be a video about what you said because I wanted to kind of see how you deal with the material. But um, >> respectfully, Ash.

[00:17:53]>> Yeah.

[00:17:54]this whole time that we've been talking.

[00:17:56]We've been talking almost 20 minutes now and we haven't had any of any substance in our conversation. But now we finally are actually kind of getting somewhere when we're talking about the context of the son of man in ancient of days. The entire context surrounding the son of man, right? And then what you said, what you said is important. You're saying that the son of man, he rules in heaven with the father, but at the same time is not ruling over the council. How does that work? That he's ruling in heaven, but not ruling over the council in heaven.

[00:18:35]>> So, let's let's deal with the text. I will read the text and I will show you exactly what I see >> in the text. We'll start in Daniel 7 and 13 unless you want to start earlier up.

[00:18:47]Is that okay?

[00:18:48]>> Where? Wherever, wherever, wherever you want to go.

[00:18:50]>> So I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven, there was one like a son of man, and he came to the ancient of days and was presented before him. So he's actually being dealt with in the council. He's not even presiding over the council. It says, "And to him was given dominion and glory and the kingdom that all >> Wait, sorry. Where do you see that he's part of the council?" So if you if you read Daniel 7 from the top, it says that the thrones are cast down and the council's already in session. So I guess I'll start >> up at nine. It says, as I looked, thrones were placed in the ancient of days took his seat. There's a toss up about whether or not it's saying that the thrones of the kingdoms of the world were cast down or whether or not it's saying that the thrones were sat around the council. We don't have to get hooked on that. But nonetheless, it says the ancient of days took his seat. His clothing was white as snow, his hair like the hair of pure wool. His throne was fiery flames, and his wheels were burning fire. a stream of fire issued and came out from before him and a thousand thousands served him and 10,000 times 10,000 stood before him and the court sat in judgment and the books were open. So you see the council here the court sitting in judgment with the most high sitting at the head. Now when we skip to verse 13 what we see is that the son of man is approaching the council. I beheld.

[00:20:26]>> Where did he approach the council?

[00:20:28]>> I'm I'm reading it now. So it says, I saw in a night vision and behold with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man and he came to the ancient of days. So the most high is sitting at the >> I'm sorry. What were you going to say?

[00:20:43]>> So he's he's not he didn't come to the council. He came to the ancient of days and he's so he's distinct. He's separate from the council, right?

[00:20:50]>> The the No, the council is not over yet.

[00:20:52]So he's coming to the most high who is sitting over the council. He's the head of the council. Everybody else is insignificant in the council until you see the son of man come in. So >> So just really quick. So the council is made up of those who are serving the ancient of days and took their seat in the court. Right.

[00:21:12]>> Right.

[00:21:13]>> Okay. Then the son of man comes on the clouds of heaven.

[00:21:17]>> Comes to the ancient of days >> and he comes to the ancient of days.

[00:21:20]Right. the council is already sat.

[00:21:22]They're in session. They took their seats [clears throat] in the court. Then the son of man comes to the ancient of days. So the son of man is distinct from the uh from the uh council, right?

[00:21:34]>> So So we're not arguing about whether the son of man is distinct from the council. We're we're talking about whether the council is distinct from the ancient of days. Of course, the son of man is distinct from the council. What I'm saying is that when it says that the son of man approached the ancient of days, that does include the council because as you'll see in the latter portions of Daniel when the ancient of days is ruling, he's still ruling with the council right there. So the council didn't go away and then they had another council later on.

[00:22:06]>> We're not saying that. I'm not saying that the council went away, but we agree the ancient of days is distinct from the council. He's ruling over the council.

[00:22:12]He's not part of it. Yes, he is a part of it.

[00:22:15]>> He is a part of it because it's his judgment that ends up coming down.

[00:22:19]>> He says that he rules over the council.

[00:22:21]How can he >> Do you know that there's a head of a council, brother?

[00:22:25]>> So, so, so, so C. So, when you say council, then are you just meaning just the the getting together of them all? Is that all you mean?

[00:22:33]>> Exactly. Exactly.

[00:22:35]>> That's all you mean?

[00:22:36]>> Exactly.

[00:22:37]>> Cuz cuz the scripture does say that he rules over the council. So, I'm just so I'm just making sure like we making we understanding each other. He's not part of the council in the sense that he's one of those council members that that he's ruling over, but he's in the council in the sense that he's ruling over the council. He's he's >> in the sense that as a king has a counsel, the most high has a counsel. He is the most high over everything. His counsel is there as a supporting audience, no more, no less. But what I'm saying is that when he comes to the most high, when he comes to the ancient of days, the council is there with him. So all in all, the king and his court members are having a council. And that makes the most high a part of that because a council is a thing that you have. You can have it uh you can have a council session or you can have a council that you consult with from time to time depending on how the language is being used. context is always going to dictate. What we see here is that the most high is sitting on his throne. The council is in procession and then the son of man approaches. He is not ruling over it if he approached it, right?

[00:23:50]Somebody else is overseeing it. Clearly the ancient of days and it says >> I disagree. Hold on just really quick because when it like let's for example let's go to let's just put this up with Psalm 82, bro.

[00:24:06]Psalm 82 [clears throat] it says God has taken his place in the divine counsel.

[00:24:19]So when God takes his place in the divine counsel in verse one does that mean that he's not ruling over the council?

[00:24:26]>> That means he takes his seat. So like I said, you can have council members, that's your council. But when council is proceeding, that is something that's an event. So what a king does typically is he comes sits on his throne and the council members around him or before him, off to the side, whatever the case may be. The imagery is only important in the sense that the most high is ruling over the council. The son of man is approaching something that's already taken place. He is not the one sitting on the throne as he comes to the throne when he talks to the most high.

[00:25:02]>> Does Jesus sit on the on the throne next to the father?

[00:25:05]>> Yes. But he doesn't have a throne next to the father right here. So we're jumping the gun. This is not context.

[00:25:12]>> It says thrones are placed. Why where why are you saying that the son of man doesn't have his own throne even when later scriptures demonstrate very clearly that Christ has his throne next to the father?

[00:25:24]So it says with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man.

[00:25:30]>> That's crazy too ancient only Yahweh comes with the clouds of heaven.

[00:25:35]>> I mean that's fantastic. But in this particular text staying in context because your question was about the context and my question was about the context. It says that the son came with the clouds of heaven. It didn't say he got off his throne. It saying that he came from afar. And this is a vision about something that happens before he even receives his glory. So I I I would I would definitely recommend that if I finish my analysis of at least these two verses, then you might have >> he can we agree that he has a throne.

[00:26:08]>> He he gets a throne.

[00:26:09]>> Okay. So >> he does not have a throne right here in Daniel 7.

[00:26:13]>> So the son of man has a throne next to the father in heaven. Correct. The son of man currently has a throne next to the father in heaven.

[00:26:22]>> Does who is he ruling over?

[00:26:24]>> He's ruling over everything but the most high.

[00:26:26]>> So that includes the council.

[00:26:28]>> Yes.

[00:26:31]But that is not what Daniel 7:13 and 14 are talking about. It's >> exactly what Daniel 7 is talking about him ruling everything, bro.

[00:26:40]>> Okay, watch this. I'm going to read it.

[00:26:41]I'm not going to go anywhere else. I'm going to read it and then we'll see when he begins to rule over the council because the council still is allowed to pass judgment later and the judgment pertains to him and his dominion. So, um, >> wait, you're saying that the council judges his dominion?

[00:27:01]>> I'm I'm I'm I'm saying they're going to pass judgment and that judgment is also going to pertain to his dominion. It's also >> What do you mean by that? Because I'm I'm not That's not clear. I'm trying to read it. I'm trying to read it and show you, brother.

[00:27:16]>> Okay.

[00:27:16]>> I'm trying to read it and show you.

[00:27:18]>> Clarifiers don't work. All right. So, where where are we reading where the council judges his dominion?

[00:27:24]>> Well, first I'm reading um 13 and 14. I haven't been able to finish that. So, I'm reading it in context.

[00:27:30]>> I'm trying to We know verse 13 and 14.

[00:27:32]Respect. Like I said, we've been talking for a long time and we haven't gotten anywhere.

[00:27:36]>> Well, brother, you keep stopping me in the context. And this is the thing. You cannot jump on any panels and I can't jump on any panels and say people are reading out of context if the person standing before you or sitting in front of you is ready to read the context but you want to jump somewhere else >> like this is this is like I apologize this might not be where you get a quick like snippet or anything like that out of this but it's a meaty conversation.

[00:28:02]>> Yeah. So, it look it looks like it looks like the conversation that you want to have is like it's a it's a super super slow paced conversation to where like for this stream, brother, it's not it's you're not in the right place for this type of conversation that you want to have. So, I'm going to respectfully I'm going to move on to the next person. Not because uh you you disrespect or anything like that, but for the conversation you want to have, it's not for a stream like this. Does that make sense? Got you. Got you. How about this?

[00:28:34]I'll jump to the part that you asked me to >> and then let's see if it builds up momentum. And if it's still too much, then we'll try to schedule a time cuz we supposed to been have a one-on-one.

[00:28:45]>> And I know I know you busy.

[00:28:48]>> Now, you told me to email you and that you would get with uh what's that dude's name? Um >> I don't remember the white guy's name, but he's like [clears throat] uh >> it's okay. So, let's let's get to the let's get to the verge, bro. All right.

[00:29:02]Vers all praise.

[00:29:03]>> Where do they where do they judge his his dominion?

[00:29:05]>> So in verse 25, you see that these beasts are speaking slander against the most high and they're doing blasphemous things. Daniel 7 and 26 says, "But the court shall sit in judgment and take away the dominion of the beast." Right?

[00:29:23]Then we see in verse 27, the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the most high.

[00:29:35]His kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. The context dictates that this is talking about everything under heaven. We haven't gotten to thrones in the sky yet. And the thing is that this is pingponging right off of Daniel 2 where it talks about that great stone that's cut out without hands that comes hits the statue and a great and mighty kingdom is formed.

[00:29:59]>> Just really quick, brother.

[00:30:00]>> Yeah.

[00:30:01]>> So, can we agree that it said nothing about judging his dominion, but they judge the beast who was blaspheing?

[00:30:08]>> Well, it says the court shall sit in judgment and take away his dominion. His dominion shall be taken away. The son of man is not a part of giving this judgment. He is juxtaposed from that in verse 25 when it says he shall speak words against the most high and shall >> we can we agree that the judgment that is taking place is against the beast.

[00:30:31]>> It is taking place against the beast but the son of man is not a part of it. He's not giving judgment. So he's on like so what you have in this uh picture is you have the [clears throat] person that is on trial. The beast is being brought up on trial and then you have the son of man who is the innocent one and represents the innocent ones. So >> on the council speaking to the people that are being judged between the beast and >> his king I got you. I got you. We're gonna have to we're gonna have to we're gonna have to table this and uh I got to move on to the next person. My man >> too. We're not getting anywhere.

[00:31:12]>> All right. All praises. I appreciate you though nonetheless. I know this was a little different from the last one, but hey, I still I still appreciate cuz it was better with than with Elijah and uh Light.

[00:31:22]>> Yeah. Way better.

[00:31:23]>> Still do your thing though.

[00:31:24]>> I'm sure, man. God bless you, man.

[00:31:27]>> Hey, I know.