Grief Is Just Love With Nowhere to Go | With Michala Banas

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:03]Welcome to the Cracking On podcast with Sarah Roberts and Sam Frost. This podcast is all about life's big messy moments and how you just got to crack on with it. You may know today's guest from Mloud's Daughter's Upper Middle Bogan and she's now appearing in Blue Murder Motel or you know, you can probably catch her on like the 90 plus productions she's worked on since she was literally like five. She's also just become a writer, a director, and an intimacy coordinator. In this episode, we talk about grief, reinvention, and what it means to give yourself permission to do the work that you actually want to do. Please welcome our beautiful guest, Michaela Bamis. So, firstly, you wrote Packed Away. It's a short film that is airing at Flickerfest, and your dad stars in it.

[00:00:47]The short film is all about grief and masking grief. and how Sarah and I sat there afterwards just in shock.

[00:00:56]>> How wild it is that you've filmed this and wrote it and then your dad passed away. Can you talk Can you talk about that? Like look at my arms. I got goosebumps.

[00:01:06]>> Wild.

[00:01:07]>> It is wild. It's a weird old life is a weird old thing sometimes.

[00:01:11]>> Crazy.

[00:01:12]>> I think um I made the film for sort of two reasons. one, my best friend had passed away um a couple of years ago now, but I didn't, you know, I was navigating grief in a new way that I'd never really experienced. You know, I lost grandparents and things like that, but not someone I mean, she was like my sister. We'd had 35 years of friendship and um yeah, so it was a new kind of territory for me. I didn't know what to do with it. So, uh that was one element of making this film. And the other element was I'd always wanted to make something with my dad. My father was an actor when I was born obviously before that and then became a director and writer screen uh mostly screen and I had been intimacy coordinating for ages at that stage and was missing acting and I rang him up and was like missing acting do you ever miss acting and he said all the time and I went and I didn't expect that response from him and I went oh wow okay and then I you know we finished our conversation and I hung up and I said to my husband Toby I really want to make something with had like imagine like we get to act together that would be so cute.

[00:02:18]>> I just want to make a little thing that's ours, you know?

[00:02:21]>> And that was the kind of those two things with a sort of impetus behind it.

[00:02:27]And then I dreamed the film basically.

[00:02:30]>> Wow.

[00:02:30]>> Wow.

[00:02:31]>> Yeah. Well, I sort of had all these weird things came together. My best friend's um family were getting rid of her clothes and I had a sort of feeling about that. I was sort of wanting a couple of items and a bit, you know, about her clothes, weirdly.

[00:02:45]>> Yeah.

[00:02:46]>> Um, my husband had said to me something about clowns and we were moving and packing. So, there were boxes everywhere. So, all of those sort of three elements, the clothes, the boxes, the clown. Um, I don't want to spoil the film for people, but um, they all sort of came to me in this dream. I got up and I wrote it in about 15 minutes. Just spashed it out.

[00:03:07]And I had this gut instinct to contact uh Finn Samson, who is my co-director on the film we directed together. I said, "I've got this idea." He said, "Send it to me." And he called me like 10 minutes after he got the script and was like, >> "My grandfather's dying right now."

[00:03:22]>> Whoa. I'm going through this in a weird way myself. This is meant to happen.

[00:03:27]>> Yes.

[00:03:28]>> And so we made the film. And and then Yeah. A couple of months ago, my dad passed away very unexpectedly. He was not unwell. uh was a big shock. Still is a big shock. Um so how incredible I got to make this thing.

[00:03:44]I wanted to make just a thing for us knowing one day I would want to watch it back. Not thinking that that would happen so soon. Absolutely never thought. He was very healthy, very well, very vibrant person. And so um for him to to die was like what? Yeah.

[00:04:06]>> But now I have this beautiful little >> momento, I guess, keepsake. Very special keepsake of him and I. And it was his last performance >> and he never got to see it, unfortunately. But um >> yeah.

[00:04:20]>> Oh, look. My covered in goosebumps. I think >> Sarah and I talk about these things all the time. Both of us have experienced grief very close to us.

[00:04:30]>> It's tough.

[00:04:31]>> It's one of the hardest things to go through. And then yeah, as we said, we we sat there after we watched it just in, you know, in shock that that that you had had that experience afterwards. And sometimes I think I would be curious to know your thoughts >> as you know, someone who is creative, you're writing. Um, and do do you think this might be a bit waw wa and I love >> Oh, I'm all about wawa.

[00:04:58]>> Let's go waw wa. Let's do it. I walked in the room, there's sunflowers here.

[00:05:02]And I my my favorite photo of my father is him in a field of sunflowers. And I was like, "Oh, dad's here."

[00:05:09]>> So, and I saw a big thing of sunflowers this morning. And I stopped and took a photo of it. I went, "Oh, dad's with me." You're like, "Hello."

[00:05:16]>> But the thing that we we can't get past things like I I'll share my example and then I would love to know if your thoughts on it, right? So, just before my my stepdad raised me and then he suddenly passed away. like just super.

[00:05:30]Anyway, >> I'm sorry.

[00:05:31]>> We have Oh, wow.

[00:05:32]>> Yeah, it's awful. I mean, >> we have this video of him >> and he was saying things in it and he didn't know he was very well and he didn't know that he was going to pass.

[00:05:42]And he's like, >> "No matter what happens in life, I promise you I'm always with you." And he goes, "It doesn't matter where you are.

[00:05:49]It doesn't matter what it is. I promise I'm always there." And that's our last little capsule of him. And we're like, >> I'm only laughing cuz like, yeah, of course.

[00:05:59]>> And I got inspire like inspired for some bloody reason to write him this long ass letter saying how thankful I am for him.

[00:06:07]And I was like, I know I was a piece of [ __ ] teen. I had, you know, >> were come on.

[00:06:12]>> Like, and I was like so sorry. And I was like, the person my sister and I are today is all thanks to you. And like every And then like he died and and we're like, >> wow. So he he got that you got to give him >> I got to give him the letter.

[00:06:24]>> Wow.

[00:06:25]>> And then we have this time capsule video of him saying that and you just go >> what?

[00:06:30]>> Yeah. Wild. So here's a weird one.

[00:06:32]>> Love it.

[00:06:33]>> Um sadly 2 weeks before my father passed away, his mother, my grandmother passed away.

[00:06:40]>> Oh.

[00:06:41]>> At 98.

[00:06:43]>> Incredible. Incredible. but she passed away and he went to New Zealand which is where I'm from where he grew up >> um to see say goodbye to her. He got to say goodbye to her and then um help with the funeral arrangements >> and I spoke to him a few times and he was in a really like dad's pretty busy. He's a bit like me, like stuff going on and he is high energy and he was really peaceful and I had some really nice FaceTime conversations with him because I was filming and I couldn't attend my grandmother's funeral and I was >> really really >> [ __ ] devastated that I couldn't be there for him >> and be there to say goodbye myself. But >> of course, he works in my in our industry and and understood and it was not a problem. And I felt very okay that he was okay and the rest of my siblings were there. And uh the following day after her funeral, I had been filming that the day of her funeral, he called me and I had slept in and missed his call. And there's a voicemail from him that is really beautiful that says just calling to say and my dad's uh you know mid70s English, >> not so much one to >> you know express himself. did got better as he got older, but he he was like, um, I love you. I'm Please don't worry that you weren't here. You were with us in spirit. Um, you just this really beautiful voice message. And I was like, I just want to say I love you. I love you. I love you. Like a bunch of times and hung up. And I got this voicemail and I went and I emailed it to myself.

[00:08:18]>> Which I have never done and I don't know why the [ __ ] I did it.

[00:08:23]>> Yeah.

[00:08:23]>> But I did it. It's the last voicemail he ever left me. I had no reason to. But I just went, "That's beautiful. I'll want that one day."

[00:08:31]>> Yeah.

[00:08:32]>> And then like a week later, >> I these phone calls. Yeah.

[00:08:38]>> Yeah.

[00:08:38]>> Isn't that crazy? I don't know what the word is for that.

[00:08:41]>> I don't know what it is either.

[00:08:43]Something super magical. Well, there's a reason there's not a word for it cuz it's so >> un untenable and and yeah, a bunch of little things. He didn't know he was going to pass away. instead of pulmonary ambolism, you know, like this was not a thing. He was like, I think maybe. But he also did a couple of other things that were like, huh?

[00:09:02]>> Yeah.

[00:09:03]>> Yeah.

[00:09:03]>> That's interesting.

[00:09:04]>> It's so fresh and raw, but do you feel him around at >> at the moment? Like I know you have spoken about sunflowers and >> are there any ways that you've been working through your grief or remembering your father through >> It's so funny. I fluctuate. You know, I think that's part of grief. Sometimes I'm like, "This is a sign and he's with me." And other times I'm like, "Fuck this. He's not here. This is [ __ ] They're not signs. This is a lie. I'm making this up to make myself feel better." You know, and I swing. I just swing from one to the other.

[00:09:39]>> But then yeah, I I was um I caught up with a friend and had been it was quite soon after his passing and she said, "Can I take you out for lunch? You up for that?" And I said, "Yeah, yeah, okay." And she's a big believer. Rebecc Rebecca Gibney. Beautiful human being.

[00:09:53]>> Perfect.

[00:09:53]>> Love.

[00:09:54]>> How can you not? She's one of the best human beings. She contacted me every day for weeks after his passing.

[00:10:01]>> Like really, >> and said, "Don't reply. I'm just checking. I'm thinking about you."

[00:10:07]>> Anyway, she's a big believer in in that he's with me and that people who pass, you know, they they're there with you in one way or another. And we were going out for lunch and I'd been talking about him and I was just like, I I just need something. I'm desperate. I'm desperate.

[00:10:23]She's like, it'll come. It'll come.

[00:10:24]It'll come.

[00:10:25]>> And I said, let's walk to lunch. And we walk down the street and a 10 or 11 yearear-old boy was walking towards us with like a big tray of lollipops. And he was like, "Do you want a lollipop?"

[00:10:35]And I said, "Oh, what are you selling them for?" Like I thought it was a charity thing. He said, "No, I'm just giving them to people."

[00:10:41]>> I'm like, "That's sweet."

[00:10:43]>> He's like, "Would you like one?" And I said, "That's a really kind thing to do." And I could see, I think it was his mom just sort of hanging back behind him. I said, "I'd love one."

[00:10:51]>> And he gave one to me and he gave one to Beck. I said, "Is it okay if we give you just can I give you a hug? Is that all right?" He's like, "Yeah, yeah." Gives me this hug. And I smiled at his mom and she smiled and he walked away. And there was a little thing stuck to the lollipop. And Beck looked at hers and said, "Oh." She goes, "Oh, have a nice day." And um mine and I'd just been banging on about how I wasn't coping, you know. And I was like, "Oh, that's so sweet." And I looked at mine and it said, "You have totally got this."

[00:11:18]>> Yay.

[00:11:18]>> And and she went and Beck looked at it and went, "Ma, I looked at that tray and every single one of the stickers said, "Have a nice day."

[00:11:26]>> Wow.

[00:11:27]>> But you got this one, you know.

[00:11:30]>> Yeah.

[00:11:30]>> I don't know. You just But I I've been filming in Queenstown the last uh month or so, and I'll be back and forth the next couple months. I've been filming a show called A Remarkable Place to Die Down There, which my father wrote. But I was down there. My dream has always been to go to the Northern Lights and I was down there um very recently >> and there was a little thing saying you'll be able to see the Aurora Australas tonight if you have a little look around. And I was like, oh yeah, yeah, sure. And we'd been on night shoot. And I was tired, but my body clock was sort of late.

[00:12:03]>> And I ended up popping my head out at about 1:00 a.m. and went, "Huh, I see something." And I took a chair out. And I ended up sitting out there for over an hour while the entire sky went green and purple and pink and rippled above me and and like it looked like spotlights shooting up into the sky. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

[00:12:31]>> And then I saw two shooting stars.

[00:12:36]>> I think I saw two more out of the corner of Maya, but I definitely saw two. And I just cried and cried and cried. And I if nothing else, you know, I just thought I wouldn't be here >> in this very spot at this very point in time if it wasn't for dad.

[00:12:55]>> Yeah.

[00:12:56]>> Isn't that nuts? writing this show, me ending up playing this character. I auditioned to play this character and then they it was last season. I just did a guesty and then they brought her back cuz they liked her so much and like I just wouldn't have been awake at that hour >> sitting out and like like I just poked my head out and I thought, you know, I don't know. At least I know that wouldn't I wouldn't have witnessed something like that if it wasn't for him. I believe that they guide us constantly and you know it's been a fair few years since we've lost our special people and always you you feel them.

[00:13:29]Sometimes you have moments where you're like I haven't felt you for a while and then something will happen and you just go oh there he is.

[00:13:36]>> Oh yeah.

[00:13:36]>> It never goes away which I think is really special and you don't want it to but it hurts >> but then >> it's like a nice hurt. My husband said that my husband lost his dad oh 12 years ago now and >> and I just have been going not going to hurt >> and he said it's just a different kind.

[00:13:56]You'll smile at the memory of them instead of feeling this >> this for me it's still shock and >> oh yeah >> complete heartbreak. Someone described it to me as uh the tax you pay for loving someone so much.

[00:14:09]>> And that really resonated with me because I just every time when I felt like I was like in the depths of it, >> if I thought about it just being love, I was like, "Wow, like all this salt that's pouring from my eyeballs, it's just love. It's all the love I had for my brother." and and and I I've started to realize I kept apologizing and I'm like, "Oh, I'm not apologizing for >> grief and love, like they're intertwined and and yeah, yeah, if I end up in tears today, that's good." And and >> um I'm learning a lot about myself and I'm learning a lot about love and I'm learning a lot about grief and life and it's sort of >> it's overwhelming, but it's it's and it's hard, but it's beautiful. It's so many things at once. It's wild.

[00:14:55]>> Absolutely. I think the way you described it before like a swing >> was a brilliant description cuz sometimes for me it felt like waves like you're just in waves like and the wave was going to take you out and then you come back up and you're okay for a little bit and then you go back down or or like a um someone else described it to me as wearing a cape >> and sometimes you just want to hide behind the cape and then other times it feels like it's all sparkly and shiny and you can conquer the world.

[00:15:18]Superowered.

[00:15:19]>> Yeah. or sometimes you want to just whip people in the face with it cuz you're so [ __ ] angry.

[00:15:24]>> You just don't understand why these things have happened.

[00:15:27]>> I think I will say for anyone else that's going through grief, the the one thing I heard recently and I went, "Oh, yeah."

[00:15:34]>> Is whatever you run from chases you.

[00:15:38]>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:15:39]>> And so I've really kind of leaned into it >> and allowing it. And um I think that's true for any kind of stuff that you're going through, whether it's grief or breakup or depression. You know, there's very complicated stuff out there, but >> but the more you face and lean into >> somehow the easier it feels a little bit.

[00:16:01]>> Yeah.

[00:16:02]>> I'm I'm not going to run from it cuz I think I that's not good for me anyway.

[00:16:06]>> Catch up to you. Yeah, that's right.

[00:16:08]>> Can you share one of your favorite memories with you and your dad?

[00:16:12]>> Oh, I love this. The beautiful thing about the film I made is that I recreated childhood memories, >> things that he did. A lot of kids called him Magic John when we were kids and he would >> do little magic tricks and things like that. So I've recreated them in the film that people won't know that, but that's kind of why I made it was like, "Dad, do all the things that you used to do when we were little."

[00:16:34]>> How great you got to relive that again.

[00:16:36]Like go back to being little Michaela >> with your dad. I have so many good memories with him. Um, I grew up with my dad. My parents broke up when I was four and I lived with my dad the whole time.

[00:16:48]I never lived with my mom after that.

[00:16:50]So, um, I have an amazing relationship with my mom and she's an incredible person and yeah, but it's a very unique sort of circumstance. I think >> I got to take him to the Helpman Awards when I won a Helpman award.

[00:17:02]>> That's pretty cool. Yeah.

[00:17:03]>> And Kate Blanchett came over and like hugged me and he was like, "Dad's never like he he wasn't starruck, but and he again he wasn't one to say, "I'm proud of you. Well done." I knew it. I could feel it.

[00:17:16]>> But he went he looked at me, he went, "This is a big deal." And I went, >> "Thanks."

[00:17:21]>> I was like, "I know." Like I was freaking out. But because we both worked in this industry and that was our connecting point was work and and and >> what we where we were at and what we were doing. And so I think whilst it feels egotistical and a little bit the award wasn't it wasn't so much winning an award it was this moment of recognition that he could celebrate that with me was really cool.

[00:17:45]>> Yeah. That's really special.

[00:17:47]>> Yeah.

[00:17:49]>> Is that how you got into acting through your dad? Like did you start were you inspired to act or >> I think so. He was running a theater when I was born. He was the artistic director and running a little theater in Wellington called Downstage Theater. So we grew up backstage in the theater in the workshop. You know the smell of sawdust to me is a workshop theater workshop. You know what I mean? So I think there was Yeah. I mean we were around the theater >> from birth for me.

[00:18:15]>> And then of course I mean I did my first feature film when I was five and I Oh >> yeah.

[00:18:21]>> Yeah.

[00:18:22]>> That's so young. Most 5year-olds like I don't know what color it is.

[00:18:26]>> Was that your very first acting job?

[00:18:28]>> Technically, no.

[00:18:31]>> Before you started working before you were five.

[00:18:33]>> My first acting job. I was in a television commercial when I was one and a half. Two, maybe nearly two.

[00:18:40]>> A baby star.

[00:18:41]>> I was dressed as a Kiwi cuz it was New Zealand and it was a political campaign ad and my brother was in the ad with me, but I don't I don't know that that counts. But it was a professional television commercial. On my first speech film when I was five and I remember >> dad asking me if I wanted to do it and telling me I didn't have to or if I didn't want to sort of thing. I remember him really being kind of like giving me autonomy, real autonomy over those sort of things because I think he was like, "You don't have to be an actor. There's no money.

[00:19:09]>> This is, you know, there are better things you could do." But I remember going, "Oh, no. I really want to." And it was a full-on film. I had a gun pointed at my head. I got tied up, abducted, you know.

[00:19:19]>> Well, that's pretty traumatic.

[00:19:21]>> I knew it was pretending like I was having a >> ball. Um, and the woman who played my mother in that film, I'm still in I've reconnected with and in contact with, you know, 40 plus years later. But um yeah, I think I think him being in the industry certainly gave me access to it and I understood that it was something you could have as a job cuz a lot of my mates who are actors were like I didn't even know you could do that as a job to XY Z, you know.

[00:19:47]>> So it was never like a thing we were made to do. It was it was accessible to us but certainly not pushed on us in any way.

[00:19:54]>> And when did you realize you could make people laugh? Because you are hilarious.

[00:20:00]Brilliant come meeting timing and like we uh were absolutely cracking up.

[00:20:04]Obviously you've been a household name forever. Um but like when did you go I think I'm pretty good at this.

[00:20:11]>> I was definitely I think as a at school maybe at school I was definitely the class clown kind of typical >> silly idiot kid. I don't really remember a moment and like I don't really remember a moment going I want to be an actor because I sort of always just did you always kind of I was so young when I was working and doing that for a living.

[00:20:31]I just remember going >> knowing I never never wanted to stop doing that and I still >> I still you know wake up when I'm going to work. I'm excited like I still feel like that honestly and I don't take it for granted. I'm so grateful that I get to do what I love. I know a lot of people don't get the opportunity to to do what we do and and so I I do try to sit in a place of gratitude and and acknowledge that for the last 25 years I haven't had a normal job like that's pretty amazing and and um but yeah I just always knew that's what I wanted what I wanted to do. We obviously love Upper Middleen. Who doesn't?

[00:21:10]>> I'm so curious when it comes to comedy shows like do you get much improv in or is it all pretty much scripted?

[00:21:17]>> Depends. They're always different.

[00:21:19]>> Um, Upper Middle Bogen was script very scripted.

[00:21:22]>> Word word perfect.

[00:21:24]>> Really?

[00:21:24]>> Yeah.

[00:21:24]>> So all those sea bombs and all of them were >> written. Yes. Yes. She was that was it.

[00:21:32]It's good writing.

[00:21:33]>> How fun that you get.

[00:21:34]>> It's good writing. That show is really well written. Um, some shows there's a lot of improv. It really just depends with with that particular show. I mean, comedy's rhythm and timing obviously, but scripted comedy is really, you know, if it's written well, there's a specific rhythm to things.

[00:21:51]>> And so adding words and changing things can mess with the rhythm and can mess with the comedy.

[00:21:55]>> What they did a lot on that show was let us keep going at the end of the scene.

[00:22:00]>> Great. So, there was an element of us playing and mcking around, but I always wrecked it cuz I always laughed cuz it was it was Glenn Robbins most of the time doing something. I'm like, I can't even I can't. You're just, you're the funniest person. He was amazing actually because I grew up watching Glenn Robbins, you know, the best.

[00:22:18]>> He's incredible. And I remember sitting next, we had a two week rehearsal period with that show as well, just creating the family dynamic and finding out the tone and all those really key things, which I think is why it worked so well cuz we shot it really fast. But I remember sitting next to him, one of my complete comedy idols at the at the table on the first day and we were reading all the episodes and during the audition process, the note that kept coming through was, "We want Amber, my character, to be warm, cuz she's really harsh. Be warm. Be warm. too warm. So, I was trying to sort of soften her a bit and warm her up and like make her not so harsh. And I was like, I don't know if this is working. And I said to him, "Is this working? I don't like Can you like what do you reckon?" Like I was just [ __ ] it. I'm just going to ask him. He's like, "Do you really want my opinion?"

[00:23:06]I'm like, "Um, yes, 100%."

[00:23:09]>> And he said, "Can I tell you I think you're a really warm person naturally.

[00:23:14]That's going to shine through no matter what. So, just put your foot on the accelerator." Oh, isn't that great advice?

[00:23:20]>> That's a fun note.

[00:23:22]>> And cuz I hadn't quite found her. I was trying to make her nice. He's like and warm. And he's like, you are really beautiful compliment. You're really warm.

[00:23:31]>> It's in there. Just go for it. And so then I just went and she was there. And he's like, >> you've hit it. And they were like, there she is. And I'm like, oh, there she is.

[00:23:41]I don't have to play warm. I just let my warmth come through and just go, "Fuck you." And bang, bang, bam, bang. and all I and and I actually realized that my approach to every character I play, even ones like her that people consider a [ __ ] or, you know, harsh, I always look for love. Like, where's the love? What are you know? And she loved her family so fiercely. It came out in this way.

[00:24:05]But if the love's there, people will go, I [ __ ] LOVE HER, YOU KNOW?

[00:24:09]>> And people go, "That's my auntie or that's my sister." And it's that's the biggest compliment, you know?

[00:24:13]>> Totally. I think we've all got a bit of Amber Wheeler in us. I certainly do.

[00:24:16]Anyway, >> Oh, she wasn't far from the surface, mate. Trust. But >> I want to know. Okay. Were the burps scripted and cuz you can Well, from when we watched it, like it seems like you can burp on Q really well.

[00:24:29]>> No. Did you just have reflex at the time or >> I do get reflex, but I can't.

[00:24:34]>> Not on Q, babe.

[00:24:35]>> I try to hide it on the mic. I >> No, I get reflex. I get reflex a lot, but not on Q. It's I'm obviously not bad at faking a burp. I would make the face and do the uh the movements. Um but the actual burps, we once in an afternoon, the entire crew um at lunchtime got big bottles of soft drink and they just held a mic out and everyone took turns.

[00:25:03]>> That is brilliant.

[00:25:04]>> And so they just Yeah, I'm not joking.

[00:25:06]And they just grabbed all these burps.

[00:25:08]And so I'd go like that and they'd put the sound in.

[00:25:12]>> That's brilliant.

[00:25:13]>> Cuz we were practicing at home. We were like, we could only do like little ones.

[00:25:16]>> No. Yeah. Yeah. I can't fake, you know, some people can just swallow air and do it. I can't do No. Hopeless.

[00:25:21]>> That is so clever.

[00:25:22]>> So I'm just faking the the appearance of a burp and they put the sound in and they were all pretty much scripted. But that is actually how I got the job >> because So tell us how you got the job.

[00:25:34]Okay. Sorry. Let me wiggle in my chair.

[00:25:36]Initially, initially I got the script and initially they wanted me to audition for um Annie Maynard's character Bess who is this the lead of the show um the anise the test who was adopted. They wanted me to audition for that role and I said oh and I read the script and I was like I really want to be and I was like can I audition for that and they went no no we just want to see you for this one. I just kept getting feedback that that might have been cast or that was off the table.

[00:26:05]And so the day of my audition, I've never done this before and haven't done it since, but I went I rang my agent. I was dressed. I've learned all the lines.

[00:26:13]I was dressed like an antheist. And I rang my agent and I said, "I don't think I should go in." And she went, "What?"

[00:26:20]And I went, "I really want to play Amber." And she was like, "I'm we've come back a few around this. We've circled around this a few times. Not not going to happen." And I said, "I think if they see me play best, they won't think I'll be able to do Amber."

[00:26:33]>> Great.

[00:26:34]>> And she said, "Well, but that might that role might be gone." And I went, "I I just I just have this feeling that I shouldn't do it." And she went, "Okay, I'll I'll call casting and tell them you're not coming in." And I was like, "Okay, bye." And I got the phone and was like, and freaked out. And I get this email saying, and this is two months later. And I thought, "It's gone. It's over. I've missed out." An email going, "Would you like to put a self tape down for Amber?" And I did. And I remember when I read the script two or three months prior that she had burped, but there was no burp in the audition scene.

[00:27:06]>> Oh, good one.

[00:27:06]>> But I popped one in.

[00:27:08]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:27:09]>> And Robin and Wayne, who created the show, said they watched my audition, the second they saw me burp, they were like, "Well, there she is."

[00:27:15]>> That is so something about, you know, actors are always like, "Yeah, how do you make it more interesting?" I'm like, "You can't just do something random. It has to be true to who this person is. It has to be true to the story." So even though there was no burp scripted, I put it in because I knew from reading the full script that that's what she did. So I went, "Oh, that's who she is. That's where she sits." And and that's what kind of got me across the line.

[00:27:39]>> Yeah. And it also goes to show the importance of trusting your intuition.

[00:27:44]>> 100%. 100%. I I I really for a brief moment regretted that decision. And look at what happened, you know.

[00:27:53]>> Yeah. You advocated for yourself. Well, and actually you do that now too with intimacy coordinating for other actors.

[00:28:00]>> Yeah, I I Yeah, a little bit. I've stepped away from intimacy coordinating over the last year because I've um pleasantly been very busy as an actor and and now there are a lot of really great intimacy coordinator practitioners around when I mean I was the second person in the country to to become an intimacy coordinator when I did it six nearly seven years ago. Um, so I I sort of helped integrate it into the into the industry here, which I'm really proud to be a part of. And now that there's so many great practitioners, I go, well, that's okay. I can step away from it and look at, you know, directing and writing and performing and and you know, and yes, do that still sometimes. But um, >> yeah, that's been that's been a goodie.

[00:28:43]It's been a really >> big shift in our industry, I think.

[00:28:47]Important. I was saying to Sarah, I remember a time where I was really creeped out. I was really uncomfortable with this person and the director instead said, "Sam, just have fun with it." And I was like, "But I'm >> I don't feel comfortable to have fun with." And I just remember being like, >> "Okay."

[00:29:05]>> Without revealing anything you don't want to reveal, could you pinpoint what it was that made you uncomfortable or it was just a general feeling?

[00:29:12]>> It was just a general feeling. And I had I'd had intimate scenes with other cast members before and felt totally comfortable. It was just this particular person, >> but I just remember the feedback being not helpful whatsoever. Instead, it made me like freeze up more.

[00:29:26]>> And you know, if we had an intimacy coordinator, I think that that would be super helpful.

[00:29:31]>> But yeah, and you've had experiences. Is that why you decided to do it or >> It was just one of those things where they brought um Eater O'Brien who's one of the founders of the workout from the UK back in 2019 2018 and I saw that she was holding a seminar and I went what is that like legit and I were like I want to see what this is about. And when she sort of said I'm like a stunt or fight coordinator but for intimate scenes I went oh my god why have we not had this?

[00:30:01]And so then me being the mouth that I am went back to the union and was like, "We need this." And then they ended up saying, "Well, she thinks you'd be great and we've got sponsorship for you to go to the UK and train with her." And I was like, "Well, NO, I DIDN'T MEAN PEOPLE. We need but you know, shut up and you know, put your put your money where your mouth is a bit, but yeah, in my tw you know, in my 20ies, I remember being on a show called Always Greener and uh we were shooting the pilot and my character was sassy." uh wore a lot of very skimpy clothing which I was totally fine about. I was comfortable with my body in that way. Um but I had to uh in the pilot be making out with my boyfriend in the car and then get out.

[00:30:42]The camera would follow me. You couldn't quite see him. They hadn't cast him because this was the only scene with the boyfriend in the pilot. So they just got an extra >> Oh, on the day >> just grabbed a guy, this poor guy, >> and put him in the car and just said, "So you guys make out and then you get out of the car." And he looked >> terrified, of course. And I was like, "Hi, I'm Michaela. How are you?" I don't remember this poor boy's name. And he was like, "Um, how do we like what do we do?" And I went, "Just put we'll just put our mouths together and move our heads around. Keep your tongue in your mouth. I'll keep my tongue in." But like I sort of had to tell him how to do a screen kiss.

[00:31:21]>> Yeah.

[00:31:21]>> And he was like, "Okay." I said, and I was like, "Are you okay?" He's like, "I just haven't done that." And I said, "I'm sorry." You know, no one no one came and spoke to him. It was just awkward.

[00:31:29]>> Yeah.

[00:31:30]>> And he probably thought he's just walking in the back of shot and now he's kissing you in a car, >> kissing the lead, you know, one of the leads and like what is this? And you know, and everyone's looking at him and he's expected to know what to do and that's not actually his role or his job or his >> little uncomfortable things like that.

[00:31:43]Lots of those. Fortunately, nothing traumatic, but a lot of people have had some very difficult, uncomfortable, traumatic experiences, some people have never worked after, you know, there's famous stories of people who have had really traumatic experiences on set and never worked again.

[00:31:59]>> Yeah. Wow.

[00:32:00]>> You know, so whilst you know, most of them are just uncomfortable, we just don't, it's a workplace. We just want everyone to be comfortable, you know, like we're comfort, we want to make sure no one's going to get hurt in a fight scene. Let's make sure no one is uncomfortable or hurt in any way, shape or form in an intimate scene.

[00:32:16]>> Absolutely. You know, have you had much push back from directors when you've been working with them on >> set? Not really. Not really. I think I think my experience has been varied.

[00:32:26]When it works and it's embraced and it's used well, it's wonderful. Um the push back is sometimes from performers and and sometimes the push back there's no not overt push back but there's a lot of box ticking that happens. So you get hired to sit and police. They think you're they think an intimacy coordinator sits on set and polices everyone.

[00:32:48]>> I'm like no no I'm a choreographer. I'm you know it's not I need rehearsal. I need to, you know, so it's it's still sometimes misunderstood and misrepresented, which is frustrating.

[00:32:59]>> If you come into a situation where two actors, like one actor is really keen to have an an intimacy coordinator and one isn't, is that how you sort of work through that with them?

[00:33:07]>> Yeah. You go you you go go for the, you know, safest option. And so if someone wants support, they get support. And and I've, you know, one of my first jobs, I worked with a very famous American actor and he was like, I don't need it. I don't need it. And the actress wanted it and so I supported her as best I could.

[00:33:25]He did not want to engage with me.

[00:33:27]>> Wow. What What is with that?

[00:33:29]>> Yeah, >> that's so tricky.

[00:33:31]>> It was tricky and it was uncomfortable and I did the best I could. I was just so new to it and I didn't have the support I needed from the director either. So, it was a really difficult situation. So all I could do was the best that I could do in the situation, which was support the actor who did want me there >> and try to engage as much as I could with the person who didn't want to engage with me, but be present and be available to the other person. It's it sometimes it's really difficult.

[00:33:57]>> Yeah, it's crazy because you're right.

[00:33:59]When you do stunt scenes, it's not like uh one actor can say, "Oh, I'm going to punch." And the other person doesn't want to be involved. It's a it's choreography and it's like a dance.

[00:34:07]>> Well, you don't punch each other in the face.

[00:34:09]>> No. Absolutely. Why are we going? We'll just figure it out. You wouldn't give two actors a sword each off you go, guys. And action. We'll just we'll just Oh, actually action. We'll be over here.

[00:34:17]You You're not going to do that. It's unsafe cuz we don't want anyone physically hurt cuz then they can't do their job. Why do we allow people to be emotionally or mentally or physically hurt in intimate content? So, some of the push back as well is, "Oh, well, it kills the spontaneity and this and that." I'm like, >> well, there's no spontaneity in a fight scene.

[00:34:36]>> Yes.

[00:34:37]>> Right. We can't cuz it's unsafe. But you can be spontaneous. We can be we can do a total totally improvised scene, intimate scene, if you know what the boundaries are, if you know what the parameters are. So, we just have to establish that and then it's go to town.

[00:34:52]>> Yeah.

[00:34:53]>> Knowing that the other person is comfortable with what you're doing and vice versa.

[00:34:57]>> Cuz so often we go, "Oh, I'm happy. You do whatever you want."

[00:35:00]>> Well, because my husband gets that one a lot cuz he's so lovely and so easy to work with. So, a lot of women used to say to, "Oh, you can do whatever you want. I'm fine." and he's like, "Well, then I have to make all the decisions >> and I'm, you know, it's just so uncomfortable." So, have a conversation, work it out. And if you want to improvise and have spontaneity, we can still do that. So, we're not killing spontaneity. We're just giving it boundaries.

[00:35:25]>> That's right.

[00:35:26]>> And sometimes you people do want to push themselves outside their boundaries. I worked on a film with a very famous actress and got an had a meeting where the producer said she won't do any nudity where I we're fine with that but there are shower scenes there is intimate content and sex scenes but so whatever she wants to wear is fine. She had never worked with an intimacy coordinator before which was surprising to me considering how well known she is and how much she had worked. I had a Zoom meeting with her and she went oh my god if you're going to be there great.

[00:35:57]She went topless. She did full nudity because I was there and she felt supported and safe and suddenly free to do that and that's what the character would do >> and she'd never really done that stuff before because >> not given a situation where she felt like I can just have the freedom >> to step into this role in that way >> was very cool.

[00:36:20]Do you have some crazy audition stories of like any fails or >> crazy jobs that you We've got a few crazy jobs that we did that we I mean we could bring up, but you tell us yours first.

[00:36:34]>> I want to hear yours.

[00:36:36]>> Okay. Okay. I used to have to dress up uh as uh I guess characters, but you know the type of characters that don't usually show their face like suit work.

[00:36:47]I did work like a mascot I guess. Yeah.

[00:36:49]Yeah.

[00:36:49]>> And uh Oh, so sexy. Stinky stinky suit.

[00:36:53]>> Oh yeah, they smell great. They smell great. So uh this one job that I did, I was working for Coohl's and I was doing this with my best mate at the time. So we really wanted to be together. So I was like, I'm going to be the S because my name's Sarah. So I had my face sticking out of an S and my hands like waddling. I couldn't couldn't walk properly.

[00:37:14]>> Uh couldn't hide either. And she was the E so that we could hang out together.

[00:37:18]Yeah.

[00:37:19]>> And uh we were waddling around dressed as the E and the S and then an exboyfriend walked in >> and I couldn't hide >> and I was like wow really made it in life.

[00:37:32]>> Really?

[00:37:33]>> Like when you see an ex, you like want to look hot and you like want to look the best version. You're like a [ __ ] S. Are you kidding me?

[00:37:41]>> It's always the way.

[00:37:42]>> And I was like yeah I'm an actor. He was like oh what do you do for work? And I was like, I'm an actor and I was just the essential you were just a supermarket mascot.

[00:37:51]>> I when I was a teenager, I had some job.

[00:37:54]I worked for I got fired from Toys R Us.

[00:37:58]>> Why? Because >> because they gave me the price tag gun and my job was to go down the this aisle and price tag everything. And I'm like, that's pretty boring. So, I'm going to try something else. And so I did moon hopper races with all the kids up and down the aisles. You know those inflatable balls with the ears on just fanging it up and down moon races like moon hopper races with heaps of kids. I've got heaps of kids involved >> and was fired for it. And I was like but I'm selling the product cuz kids were like mom I want one of the I thought I was doing a real service for the company but they didn't see it that way. So, I was things like that where I was like, "Oh, okay." But then I've done embarrassing auditions. I crawled around on the floor pretending I was getting in a bath for a commercial. Like, like they didn't even have like they didn't even have props. I just was like, "Hey, just pretending I was in a bath like on the floor." I'm like, "This looks ridiculous.

[00:38:59]I look ridiculous." I also did a lot of reading for um a show that had a lot of intimacy in it and like you would walk in the room and there was a mattress on the floor and I was a reader with all these men like half on top of me just crazy crazy stuff.

[00:39:16]>> That's nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wild in my >> You would have so many nonPC stories to tell cuz you've been in the industry for >> I'm also super non PC. I've got a mate who found out I was an intimacy coordinator and was like, "You're the most inappropriate person." I was like, "Mate, you should see me when I put the intimacy coordinator hat on." Very different part of me comes out.

[00:39:35]>> One thing that we love asking all of our guests here is something What is something that really cracks you up?

[00:39:40]What's something that makes you laugh?

[00:39:45]>> Fart noises.

[00:39:47]Not the smell. I can't I don't want fart noise. Really?

[00:39:51]>> Yeah. If you played a fart noise or if one of you farted right now and I could hear Oh, forget it.

[00:39:56]>> Really? That is >> Oh, they're funny. Farts are funny.

[00:39:58]>> It is so funny because I not often like imagine like if I just >> That would be great, wouldn't it? It's so human. I think like everyone does it.

[00:40:12]My husband makes me laugh too. I should have started with him from my husband makes me laugh. We make each other laugh a lot. We are such idiots.

[00:40:20]We're such idiots together. It's the best. So we Yeah, he he makes me laugh.

[00:40:24]>> And if I can make him laugh, that's the be. Like I feel like I've won the lottery.

[00:40:30]>> But far awesome.

[00:40:32]>> Such a great >> I love that so much. Okay, something else we do on this show.

[00:40:36]>> We finish it up with a fortune cookie to crack open and it's going to predict your future.

[00:40:40]>> Oh, bloody hell.

[00:40:42]>> They're very accurate.

[00:40:43]>> I want to rumage around to the bottom.

[00:40:44]>> You can go for it. My little gross my hands.

[00:40:47]>> It doesn't matter. Dig deep. It's fine.

[00:40:48]If it says you've totally got this, I'm gonna >> expire. Oh my god, I'm going to need my glasses. I'm an old blind woman.

[00:40:55]Gratitude >> is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.

[00:41:02]>> H 14237363612.

[00:41:08]Guys, >> lot of numbers. Get out everyone.

[00:41:13]>> Thank you so much, Michaela, for coming in to the two of you forever.

[00:41:17]vulnerable.

[00:41:18]>> We love you both.

[00:41:18]>> Yeah, we love you.

[00:41:20]>> Thanks.

[00:41:20]>> And we're excited for you.

[00:41:21]>> Thanks. Me, too.

[00:41:23]>> Me, too.