Campus Debate at Bristol 17 Year Old Challenges Students on Abortion

追加: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]Mike's there for you, friend. Okay, so I take it you're pro-life.

[00:00:03]Yeah, yeah. What what gave that away?

[00:00:05]Okay. Lovely sunglasses, by the way.

[00:00:07]>> Thank you. Thank you. Well, what's your name, by the way? Uh they call me Young Bob. What's your real name? They call me Thomas. Okay, Thomas. All right, what makes you say that you have the choice to choose whether a woman should give birth or not? Well, the government already say it has a say in whether abortion is allowed.

[00:00:22]So, I'm assuming the inverse can be true, as well. Okay. If the government has say to either pass or block abortion allowances or bans, I'm assuming that, you know, sort of mechanism already exists within society today. So, do you think that the government having the ability to do something makes it morally right?

[00:00:40]Do I think it's morally right? Abs- Well, in terms of of course allowing for abortions wrong, but what I would say is that within the current liberal society that we live in, it would be completely consistent for governments to ban abortion. Okay.

[00:00:55]Why does that make it morally right? It being consistent Is it at conception?

[00:00:58]>> At conception, yeah. Okay. So, have you seen the Charlie Kirk clip of the the dolphin fetus >> You know what? Someone did that I said this to the other gentleman. Someone did that at SOAS University up in debating abortions around the country. And the second abortion stand I did was at SOAS, another woke university. And a Chinese fellow pulled up his phone.

[00:01:30]And he said, "What is this?" Automatically knew it was dolphin. Now, I could hypothetically distort a image in Photoshop of you dressing up like a dolphin, and it looks like a real dolphin. Doesn't mean I have the justification to kill you, though.

[00:01:43]Okay, but let's not talk about that.

[00:01:45]>> Sure. Sure. But let's not dance around the fact that pre- I think it's like the 8 to 10 week phase, human fetuses and animal fetuses have very similar >> you think that just because ultrasounds have ambiguous images, they should be you should be able to kill things?

[00:02:01]Like X-rays look ambiguous. Do you think we should be able to kill people with ambiguous X-rays? I believe you're using the human definition of murder to justify something that >> Human that dying, yeah.

[00:02:10]Yeah, you're using the human definition >> it's a human. Do you think that it's morally equiva- equivalent if I kill you now to killing uh the the fetus of a woman that's been raped? Uh absolutely, cuz there's no difference. I could say to you right now, and [ __ ] it, I am actually the product of rape.

[00:02:29]You're the product of rape? Yeah. Okay.

[00:02:31]What makes me different from you?

[00:02:36]So, I presume your mother chose to conceive you.

[00:02:39]I'm sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

[00:02:40]Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Cho- chose to give birth. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I apologize. Um that there's no difference between you and I. Correct. How does that negate my point? Because you said, "Is it equivocable to say that the fetus conceived of rape and yourself standing here right now is it of an equal moral value to take that life?" I say absolutely it is, because you killing me is no different from I killing you.

[00:03:07]Sure.

[00:03:08]But It's still It's still murder.

[00:03:11]>> Sure, but your example you're you've been birthed in human form. Okay. Well, it's still a human prior to its delivery.

[00:03:18]Like like species, when they have offspring, will beget the same species.

[00:03:23]Like there's no possibility in which a dog will beget a cat. I think that's sort of biologically ridiculous. Mhm.

[00:03:29]Your mother conceived in her womb, and it was a human. It always be a human.

[00:03:35]I think this is a really silly discussion. I mean, okay, in your eyes, killing a 1-year-old, is it the same than killing someone who How old are you?

[00:03:44]18. 18, okay. Is it the same to kill a 1-year-old to an 18-year-old?

[00:03:49]Yes.

[00:03:50]Okay, fantastic. So, stages of development are irrelevant.

[00:03:56]I disagree. Why? Cuz you've just said a 1-year-old is obviously less developed than an 18-year-old.

[00:04:08]I disagree. I believe that pre- Okay, so then So, so we should reduce sentences when killing a 1-year-old compared to an 18-year-old, cuz a 1-year-old is far less developed than an 18-year-old.

[00:04:17]You've already gone through puberty or I'm going to mention I just want to say, women, our body, our choices. No, no, it's not. It's not your body. Well, okay, are you a hermaphrodite?

[00:04:28]Fantastic. How is it not her body? Uh well, okay. I'll give you an example. Uh I'll give you an example.

[00:04:34]When you developed a penis in your mother's womb, does that mean your mother had a penis?

[00:04:39]No. Okay, great, cuz it's your penis, right? Yeah. Fantastic. So, it's not it's not her body, it's yours. So, do you believe that a fetus is self-determined?

[00:04:47]It It's its own individual being, yeah.

[00:04:50]That's completely implausible. How can you have consciousness and self-determine when you're a fetus? I didn't say self-determination, cuz self-determination would necessitate a degree of like self- determine I have a penis a penis.

[00:05:01]>> Yeah, cuz you you have awareness that it's true, right? Self-determination in the way that you're weirdly defining it is just simply having the precognition, the sort of awareness that you possess it. You can possess it without being aware of it. Which is something else differently in its entirety.

[00:05:18]So, so your argument that the fetus possesses its human body it's or its fetus form >> own body, yeah. And that makes it and that makes it Not her body, yeah. Like I'll give you even greater example. Mhm.

[00:05:32]Can I just say one thing?

[00:05:33]>> Sure. Sure.

[00:05:34]A man's never going to be at risk of dying from a pregnancy. So, just because he has a penis >> man. I'm actually originally a biological woman.

[00:05:41]Well, then you're not going to carry a baby, though. So, that's actually >> I was 15.

[00:05:46]Well, you obviously don't have any rebuttal, so you're falling to these hypotheticals.

[00:05:51]>> giving me stupid questions.

[00:05:53]>> Sorry. I have a uterus.

[00:05:55]You don't know that. You're denying my reality. This is the thing. When you when you rely on like questions of experience, I'm just going to lie and say, "Yeah, I'm product of rape. Yeah, I am a woman."

[00:06:09]Yeah, no. It's just that a a trans- No, a trans man I'm a woman who transitions to being a man is not a man. She's a woman. But I still say it, cuz it annoys them. I biologically, yeah. Thomas, you men- Yeah, my name's Georgina, yeah. Thomas, you mentioned you're a Christian. How can you lie in front of the public when you're a Christian? Lying's an inherent sin. No, cuz I'm admitting I'm lying.

[00:06:32]It's not true. I'm coming out. I'm I'm not using it deceptively. And also, God rebuke me if I'm doing it in a wrong way.

[00:06:38]But I'm trying to make a point. Okay. I think that's very anti-Christian. I think you have unexamined faith that you're displaying, but Well, I think you have unexamined faith if you're trying to say that I'm somehow approaching this debate in an heretical way, but then you're debating why abortion's justified. Sorry? You're you're justifying why abortion's okay, and you're telling me what I'm doing is un-Christian. Mhm. Talk about glass house, man. I mean, abortion's completely condemned within the Christian worldview.

[00:07:05]Can you cite some scripture? Uh you have the Didache.

[00:07:08]Sorry? The Didache. Section 20. What's the scripture? Uh the Didache is a document written by the apostles that talks about what is prohibited It's a document written by the to the churches.

[00:07:18]Says abortion's wrong.

[00:07:21]So, you're just saying some document written by churches 2,000 years ago >> my guy. Do you believe in Do you believe in like apostolic right? Yeah, succession, And what does the church say about these things? The people who had a succession from the apostles who knew Christ? That abortion is an anathema. That if you teach that abortion is okay, Mhm. that it it's wrong. Okay, so the apostles also >> if you have an abortion and you are not repentant of it. The apostles also condemned genocide. Is genocide okay? Uh condoned genocide. Is genocide okay?

[00:07:52]Yeah, genocide's not okay, no.

[00:07:54]Okay, so what makes the apostles saying something okay in today's society? Don't you agree >> Cuz they knew Christ, and Christ is the immutable God. So, you're then saying genocide is okay? I'm not. You You've just said two separate >> war theory, but I don't believe in genocide. I don't believe The apostles said knew Christ, they said it was okay. So, how is genocide okay?

[00:08:12]>> it to me? Show it Show me where the apostles says that genocide is okay. Um I always get the pronunciation wrong, but uh God told the uh the people of Israel to go and slaughter the women and children of the of that beginning with M, the Man- The Man- Manakites, yeah. Manakites. They said to take the They said to take the daughters that had not That's Numbers.

[00:08:34]Uh yeah, do you do you know why they said that, though? Cuz those groups of people were accused of adultery, having like disgusting orgies. So, what they would do is they punished the people who have had sex, who have been involved in adultery, and take the boys amongst the men. That's what it says in Numbers 28.

[00:08:48]And the virgin women. Well, why why do they say these things? Well, cuz of course they're not guilty of it, which proves that my God's a just God. Because why would you punish a virgin for adultery?

[00:08:58]And also, that's not the apostles.

[00:08:59]>> You're saying that engaging in sexual activities justifies genocide. No, it's not just It's not Do you understand genocide is ethnic cleansing? If you say excuse the women who are not guilty of a crime, and you don't kill them, that's not genocide.

[00:09:12]Genocide is not ethnic cleansing. The definition is to destroy in whole or in part >> of people, yeah.

[00:09:16]>> groups of people. Yeah, correct. So, if if God was committing a genocide Now, first of all, you're you're you're giving me different books within the Old Testament, and it's not the New Testament. Numbers, Deuteronomy, >> [snorts] >> and Jeremiah. All right? You're talking about different things. You're talking about different tribes of people that were punished by God, right?

[00:09:35]The first case, some Christians give an allegorical approach that simply this is a generalized statement to show the power of God that he's able to take the lives of everyone in within a particular tribe. And in fact, if you read Joshua, the people that God commands to be wiped out actually still exist, and it talks about how you know, the Jews didn't kill all of them. The second thing as well, if it was if it was a genocide, then why would he excuse the virgin women and the boys amongst the men?

[00:10:02]In fact, if you read Deuteronomy, it goes on to clarify how you should treat these women. That you should allow them to mourn for the month of mourning period within that culture.

[00:10:11]>> two together. They were taken into the homes of the male soldiers, and you know what else follows in the scripture.

[00:10:16]Yeah. Let's not go into the political law.

[00:10:19]If you if you can't remarry, so the best thing to do is for a man to take care of you.

[00:10:25]All right. I'm not even going to go into that, but I want to go back to one thing you said. You spoke about perceiving parts of scripture in a metaphoric metaphorical way that God >> Allegorical way. Yeah, sure. Fine. Can you define that quickly? I don't actually know what that means.

[00:10:38]>> Yes, so like it's a language device, right? So if he says kill everyone, it would just be a generalized statement.

[00:10:43]Okay, so I am a Christian. I'm a progressive Christian. You're a You're a Christian and you believe abortion's okay.

[00:10:48]>> I let you finish your point. I'm just clarifying you believe abortion's okay.

[00:10:50]>> I'm pro-choice. I believe abortion's okay. What's the What Ten Commandments include shall not murder, correct? Yeah. Okay, what does What's murder?

[00:10:58]>> Abortion is not murder, but I don't want to debate murder. I don't want to debate that. We were on something. Let's not Let's not jump away from So you were saying that you perceive things allegorical, whatever you said.

[00:11:06]No, I said some Christians do, especially progressive Christians. I don't. Okay. I mean, yeah, fine. What gives you the power to pick and choose what should be taken literally from scripture?

[00:11:17]What gives the government the power to pick and choose what should be taken literally from scripture?

[00:11:21]>> textually, so reading holistically the entire Old Testament. And also reading the surrounding scriptures in ancient Mesopotamia. The reason why is because like for example, with the Genesis account, I take an allegorical approach to the time period of how long it took to God to create these things. Why? Because there are similar creation narratives that have identical reading. So it's obvious that God was just giving this text to then give an understanding that look, within your text it talks about a pantheon of gods doing this. I am the one God and I've done all of these things, which means obviously I'm the God worthy of worship. So you can look at the text in circulation. Yeah. You can look at textually for example, if it says that God ordered for them to all die, and some of them exist later on in the book, obviously means that all people did not die. So it must have been a an exhaustive general claim to then prove the power of God. Yeah.

[00:12:11]Okay.

[00:12:13]I wish that was more succinct, to be honest, but So what church do you go to?

[00:12:16]What denomination are you? I'm Church of England. You're Church of England.

[00:12:18]>> Yeah. So >> is pro-choice. Well, your your your priest should be kicked out of the Anglican Church, cuz the Anglican's position is that abortion is wrong, but it's up to the consciousness of the woman. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:12:30]>> No, but that's different.

[00:12:31]It You're saying Well, how's that different? You just said it's up to the consciousness of the woman. We live in a Church of England It's immoral. You're the heretic. You are a heretic.

[00:12:38]>> No, I'm Eastern Orthodox. We've had longer history in this country.

[00:12:42]I don't care. The king that united the Anglo-Saxon people, he was an Orthodox Christian. We are in an Orthodox country. We're not in an Anglo-Saxon country. We're in It's 2026. Oh, yes, cuz we're being demographically replaced due to mass migration. Okay, we're not even going to go there, but I I mean, we're set to be an ethnic minority by 2060.

[00:13:01]>> Okay, so let's go back to the Church of England's position. What makes you say that it being the woman's pro-choice >> but it's down to the woman's consciousness, it's just sophistry for saying you can have the liberty to choose, but know that the Church's position is immoral and you have to repent.

[00:13:16]What if this woman is not religious?

[00:13:18]Well, then she shouldn't be in the Church of England.

[00:13:21]Okay, that's that that is a valid point.

[00:13:23]I can see that. I can see that. But then what gives the government Like How You're so entitled. You just believe that you should be able to modify the Christian Church.

[00:13:31]That That's exactly what you're saying.

[00:13:33]No. That is exactly what you're saying.

[00:13:35]No, I'm an Orthodox Christian. I believe in the the reading of the scripture handed down to the apostles.

[00:13:41]>> should be taken holistically and you can kind of pick and choose parts.

[00:13:44]>> Holistically gives you the context of how things should be read. Yeah, and that Yeah, there's context to how how scripture about abortion should be read.

[00:13:53]We live in a modern world in which men in that sexual violence rape all the time, and there's context.

[00:13:58]>> I'd actually say rape was more gruesome in the Old Testament.

[00:14:03]>> Fine. Fine. You You You had Sodom and Gomorrah, you know, people [ __ ] young boys. Fine, but population growth like it happens on a more frequent basis. It happens in ways in which women >> more people.

[00:14:14]Yeah, and so you move with the times. I mean, I don't think it should have been pro-life then. Morality is an immutable fact of cuz God is the way, the truth, and the light, right? That's a famous scripture, John 3:16, right?

[00:14:25]Now, that is an immutable fact. If God is identical to goodness, and and God is immutable, then goodness must be an immutable fact. So it can't change.

[00:14:34]>> immutable? It can't change. Okay.

[00:14:38]So So morality is an immutable fact.

[00:14:40]It's not circumstantial. It's not conditional.

[00:14:42]Murder will always be wrong. Do you think there will ever be a situation where rape is okay?

[00:14:48]No. Okay, that's what you've That's what I'm saying about abortion.

[00:14:52]Do you think that's the same with genocide?

[00:14:54]Do you think that's the same with um Yeah. the slaughter of animals?

[00:14:58]No. No.

[00:14:59]So then how are things in scripture immutable fact if you can say now that they're not okay?

[00:15:05]>> you know, we read the New Testament from Christ's revelation, right? And Christ announces in Matthew that all food in the belly is clean. Mhm.

[00:15:16]Okay, I I Let me pose a hypothetical situation to you. Let's take Mary Magdalene, a close follower of Jesus Christ. If she was raped, do you think in your in your honesty that Jesus would have would have wanted her to give birth to that child?

[00:15:30]>> Absolutely.

[00:15:31]You really think that?

[00:15:32]>> Yeah, he he would be very ashamed of the man and ask him to >> that a just God if that child grows up being un- My goodness, woman, you have like a Mickey Mouse voice.

[00:15:42]There's no need to get emotive. Debate.

[00:15:44]There's no need to get emotive.

[00:15:45]>> I've actually like been able to debate I I quite enjoyed debate. As we know, we live in a country of free speech anyway.

[00:15:55]Well, not really. I've been assaulted several times and I've been arrested for hate crimes. Yeah, because you're >> arrested three times for hate speech.

[00:16:01]>> they're illegal and you're enacting a hate crime. But I'm enacting a hate crime by saying abortion is wrong.

[00:16:04]>> Let me finish my point. How do you think a just God reckons with a child being birthed unloved, unwanted, and then going on to >> loves him.

[00:16:14]It's not unloved. I mean, you you you have picked the worst possible religion to justify abortion, because we teach that this world is corrupt. It's distorted.

[00:16:23]It's terrible. You're going to have a terrible time.

[00:16:25]But what awaits you is the kingdom of God. And if you suffer believing in him, you will seek the eternal kingdom of God.

[00:16:32]Christ knowingly um sacrificed himself on the cross, knowing it was incredibly painful.

[00:16:41]So you're suggesting that suffering justifies abortion, especially as a Christian, is the worst like It's the worst thing ever.

[00:16:50]I don't know. I don't clip it. Whoever suggested that. I posted a full debate.

[00:16:53]You can watch it.

[00:16:53]>> jump in.

[00:16:56]He wants to bail out, man. Anyway, pleasure.

[00:16:58]>> It's not bailing out. I could debate with you all day. Well, okay, let's just shake my hand then.

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