Christian stuck between a rock and a flooded place

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]It is super not believable that Jesus rose from the dead. But you prefer to believe that Jesus rose from the dead rather than believe that Jesus believed that the flood happened >> because the difference is I believe that a lot of it is a representation like I said.

[00:00:12]>> Yeah. Including Jesus rising from the dead. Is that a representation?

[00:00:15]>> I don't believe that's a representation.

[00:00:17]So you pick and choose for the parts that make your worldview work.

[00:00:21]>> KR Imports, how's it going?

[00:00:23]>> Good in you, man.

[00:00:24]>> I'm doing all right. KR, do you believe in a god?

[00:00:28]>> I do. a Christian God.

[00:00:29]>> Okay, great. Thank you for being upfront. Why should I believe in a Christian God?

[00:00:34]>> So for me, um the whole the whole terms of belief in terms of a Christian God would come from and and I know people um have different aspects. I'm not going to Bible bash or anything like that. For me, it comes from a whole systematic um approach to it. So for me in terms of creation the one thing that I think humans battle understanding is and and it's a thing that that's that's our battle understanding is in terms of the creation of matter you know um even if you had a big bang or whatever the case is matter would have to have originated from something a universe if it was created not created >> well it for matter to exist it would be it would have to be created forces have to be creat created me. Why?

[00:01:22]>> Because where would it come from?

[00:01:24]>> Maybe they always existed.

[00:01:26]>> But how would that be? Because it has to be created for it to exist.

[00:01:30]>> Why? Why does it have to be? No, not necessarily. You could have stuff that always existed.

[00:01:36]>> It's it just in in my opinion, it doesn't make sense for things to always exist because it's >> Do you hold the same view about God?

[00:01:45]>> I do. So, um I don't >> So, you don't think God always existed?

[00:01:48]You think God was created?

[00:01:50]No, I I do think he was I do think he was omnipresent and always has existed.

[00:01:56]And I don't know if you ever watched that. Um it was a very nice YouTube video on it. And that's where a lot of it makes sense to me.

[00:02:03]>> If you look at the >> I I'm just I'm just not following that, I guess, because you said that everything needs to be created in order to exist. But you don't think that's true about God. So clearly not everything needs to be created to exist.

[00:02:16]So why can't matter have not been created and just exists forever?

[00:02:21]>> Because you know from my beliefs I believe he created the matter. He created the universe and he is the only thing that is outside of it.

[00:02:29]>> I understand that.

[00:02:30]>> I understand that's your belief. I'm asking why should I believe that?

[00:02:34]>> It's it's for for me it's hard to force a belief on someone. But >> I'm not asking you to force it on me.

[00:02:43]I'm just asking you to give me a reason why I should think it's true.

[00:02:47]>> For for me personally, it's the most plausible thing as a human being to believe in because you see the >> the the whole thing is the the whole if if you look at the world, everyone believes in something obviously um I'm saying the majority of your population believe in a god, a deity um in in whatever form. You know, obviously there's different religions and stuff >> and there's also atheists who don't believe in that, but sure.

[00:03:13]>> No, 100 100%. I'm saying the the the vast majority of people, right? And um for me, it's it it literally uh it gives your life purpose because what what my issue is as an atheist or an agnostic, whatever the case is. Um how do you how do you justify what the purpose of life is? Why are you here? Are you just literally atoms that are meant to exist and die again type thing or is there an actual reason for for your >> I don't think there's a reason I I don't think that there's like some deep reason. I think that what's true is that there is stuff and that stuff organizes itself in particular ways and it sometimes falls apart. Its organization falls apart.

[00:04:04]Like I I just don't know. I I just don't hold the view that there is some deep purpose or something >> because for me right if I can explain my view very quickly I believe obviously in the Christian God I believe he created a universe I do believe like when you're talking about things like Matthew and zombies and things I believe that if someone had the ability to create matter because you know obviously as humans it's we don't understand everything and I agree with you there 100% right >> sure >> I think that I think that as far as our understanding goes you will have different views like you believe what you believe I believe what I believe and >> everybody believe lots of people believe different things but why should I believe that God created why should I believe that the most reasonable belief is that God created everything >> um I I think because it's obviously again in my opinion um I think it's it's it it paints the nicest picture it's it's it's the most plausible the most plausible story for how everything works >> what you keep saying most plausible what makes it the most plausible.

[00:05:07]>> Um, the I'm trying to just >> because if it were true that it was the most plausible story for how the like why the world is the way the world is, then I would believe it because that would mean that it's like the the most likely thing to be true. So, I'm asking why is it why do you think it's the most plausible?

[00:05:25]The the thing for me is it's it's it's accurate with the way the world has progressed and developed and the way science has worked and the way that human beings have understood life in general as a whole >> for me.

[00:05:40]>> Well, >> it gets so many things wrong.

[00:05:43]>> 100%.

[00:05:44]>> So then it's not the most accurate.

[00:05:46]>> A naturalistic view would be the most accurate >> 100%. But again, even with a naturalistic view that you have, there is no um you you you cannot have a full a full understanding of the way the universe works. We know a portion of it. We know the a portion of the way world works. And with science, you can >> in my view, it's better to know some things truly and just not know other things, not know the answer for other questions than to believe some things that are false.

[00:06:18]>> Yeah.

[00:06:19]And so I'm fine recognizing that perhaps naturalism, some form of naturalism is perhaps limited and perhaps naturalism will not get us all the answers, but at least the answers it does get us will be true.

[00:06:30]>> Yes, 100%.

[00:06:31]>> Whereas the answers that you have, the God that you believe in, >> they're just wrong things, >> things that get like explicitly wrong about it.

[00:06:41]>> 100%. And can I tell you >> why would you believe the thing that is go why would you believe the why would you hold the belief system that leads you to the wrong conclusions >> because in my head it is not a wrong conclusion when you were talking >> would you would you say do you think that the flood happened?

[00:06:58]>> I do.

[00:06:59]>> Okay. Um do you understand that that did that that's not like a real thing like all the scientists agree like there is no flood that ever happened >> 100%. Then I know >> so do you think that >> so what reason do you have for believing that the flood happened? Okay. So from my perspective when and and this goes back to what you were talking about now when you when you have an idea that um the Bible is 100% accurate you ask someone do you believe that absolutely everything there happened right I believe a lot of it was a representation so I believe I mean you know even now between Christians you could have 20 people reading the same verse and understand it 20 different ways I can be the first person to say it's not 100% accurate. You're not help. I'm asking you why you think the flood happened.

[00:07:45]>> Yes. So I believe the flood happened because of pure faith because that is what we as Christians were told.

[00:07:53]>> Right. So that's exactly what I mean. It is the case that if you want to be Christian, you want to believe everything 100% then that means that you have to believe that the flood happened which is what's happening right here.

[00:08:02]You believe the flood happened because you want to believe it 100%.

[00:08:05]>> But we know the flood didn't happen.

[00:08:07]This is not a real thing that happened historically. For example, we know that the Egyptians recorded no flood and we have continuous records from the from the Egyptians throughout the period that the flood allegedly happened in like the Egyptians were the Egyptians wrote wrote down lots of stuff and there is no break in their writings that indicate that a civilization was wiped out right that just that there is no such thing which means that the flood didn't even get to Egypt let alone to Australia or South Africa or Argentina right so there so there was no global flood We know this for a historical fact. So what's the so so here you are forcing yourself to believe this thing because the book says it is leading you to an incorrect conclusion about the way the world is >> 100%. And and that's that's a perception. But at the same time this is this isn't this a historical fact right?

[00:08:58]We have records from Egypt.

[00:09:01]No. Agreed. But at the end of the day, were there also not scientists that found what they think to be the ark?

[00:09:08]>> No, there are no scientists that did that. No. There's Ron Wyatt and there's church clubs who have made these claims, but these are not scientists.

[00:09:16]>> Okay. No. Well, then great. Um for me as well if if if you can ask me um about the Bible again I I see it differently in terms of um if you if you think about it as a blank canvas right I believe that there is suffering and there needs to be suffering and it paints a picture.

[00:09:37]So if you if you um watch movies like the prince of Egypt and stuff they actually explain it quite well. They call it like a tapestry with individual threads which paints obviously a bigger picture. So >> I'm stuck on the flood.

[00:09:51]>> Yes. Okay.

[00:09:53]>> You under so so you understand that we have written records from Egypt, right?

[00:09:57]>> 100%.

[00:09:58]>> Okay. So Egypt wrote a lot of stuff.

[00:10:00]They wrote everything down. We've lost a lot of it but like a lot of it we have.

[00:10:04]>> And you can just find written records for basically any century, any any decade that you want. You can find written records in Egyptian recordkeeping. There are a few exceptions like um a lot of the records of Akenatan were destroyed after his uh after his reign because you know reasons but we still have records from that time just not about Akenatan. So the question is how could there be continuous written records in Egypt if there was a flood that wiped them out at some point during their civilization?

[00:10:35]You see, and that's the issue for me from looking at it at a human perspective because yes, there are records of that. There are records of Jesus Christ, the man living, breathing, whatever the case is, right? We can all agree on that. It all depends on your view on that. For me, people official writings although yes, it was documented by various civilizations, different people, etc., it is still a perception.

[00:10:59]It's an opinion. Even today, >> what's the look? Okay. So, is it the case that if a flood happened that it would have wiped out all civilizations everywhere on the planet with the exception of Noah and his family and the animals on the ark?

[00:11:12]>> Yeah. So, that's that's my problem with it. That's my problem with it. You know, um if if I think it's a physical flood that physically flooded the earth, no. I told you that I believe that the Bible is true in principle in terms of a flood may be a representation of something because theoretically you cannot have one family that again repopulated the world and all these animals just came onto a flood etc etc. I don't believe that would be 100% accurate as an event that happened. I believe that it is a representation of a deeper meaning.

[00:11:45]>> But the principle do you do you think that everything that Jesus believed was true?

[00:11:50]>> I do.

[00:11:51]>> Okay. So Jesus believed that the flood literally killed everybody except Noah and his family.

[00:11:58]>> Yeah. Okay. And that's what I'm saying.

[00:12:00]>> So if if the flood literally killed everybody, not just like symbolically or histo or like you know metaphorically, but if it literally killed everybody, if that's what Jesus believed, then that means that you think it's true that the flood literally killed everybody which would have wiped out every single civilization.

[00:12:18]>> Yeah. And and that's what I'm saying.

[00:12:20]It's it's >> don't say that's not what you're saying.

[00:12:22]You were saying that you don't think that you don't think it literally happened.

[00:12:27]>> I I said to you that I think a lot of the things in the Bible were meant as representations, not physical.

[00:12:32]>> Jesus didn't think that the flood was just a representation. He thought it was a real thing that happened. I can show you the verse.

[00:12:39]>> No, that's fine. But at the end of the day, like I'm saying, >> the end of the day is night. Here's the verse. This is Luke 17:26 and 27. Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of of the son of man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

[00:12:58]This is not symbolic. This is not metaphorical. He is saying that there that there will be a thing in the days of the son of man where people are eating, drinking, marrying and being given marriage that's happening in his view that's happening now and that's happening that happened right before the flood and then the flood came and killed everybody.

[00:13:14]He thinks that that actually literally happened. He doesn't think that this was symbolic or a metaphor or anything like that. Jesus thought that the flood literally happened because of course he did. He was a Jew in the first century.

[00:13:25]>> Yeah.

[00:13:27]>> So if it's true that it literally happened, then that means that the Egyptians would have been wiped out.

[00:13:35]>> But they weren't.

[00:13:37]>> 100%. And I do agree with you and that's what I'm saying. I'm not fing that. But at the end of the day, what I'm saying, I, you know, I have a different I have a different perspective on it. I believe in in that whole verse as a representation of of a principle, not in a physical event. So even, you know, the thing is that's in Luke, it's even though Luke or whatever the case, >> there there is references to it in uh there references to it in Matthew as well.

[00:14:06]>> Yeah. Which is fine. But that's what I'm saying. I I still you know the thing is for me and and I I take that back to the reference as in um as different views in terms of perception because you can have five people even even look at at things happening nowadays you can have five people witnessing the same event they will represent it in five different ways. So you will have if you have a war you will have media from three different countries and all three of them you >> instructive this is the these are these are allegedly real quotes from Jesus >> yeah allegedly. But there there's no actual you know >> okay so you don't think that Jesus actually said this stuff >> in in terms of a physical flood. I will battle to believe that and I can 100% agree with you there. I will battle to believe that the whole thing for me >> in in terms of I mean anyone logically to think about it does the entire world flood and have one family that survived etc etc I will battle believing that and I will be the first to agree with you there what what for me in in terms of why I'm a Christian and I believe in that god is the principles that align with it in terms of what it stands for and the values that it stands for and and I think that is the best thing to believe in on the street.

[00:15:22]>> Look, that's fine. You can believe in the values. You can believe in Christian values, whatever those are. My point is is that if you think that Jesus was actually the son of God, then Jesus didn't believe anything that was false.

[00:15:33]And if Jesus believed that the flood literally happened, but you think that that was false, it follows that Jesus isn't the son of God because he's believing a false thing.

[00:15:43]>> Well, he claimed to be, didn't he?

[00:15:45]>> Well, no, that's that's disputed. But the point is is whether or not he claimed it, he believed a false thing.

[00:15:55]>> And and >> and the son of God could not believe a false thing.

[00:16:00]>> Well, I I don't know. And that's I'm not educated enough on that specific topic to >> So, do you believe that? Do you do you believe that Jesus is God?

[00:16:10]>> I do. Yes.

[00:16:11]>> Okay. Does God believe in >> Does God only know true things?

[00:16:17]I think he knows all things, true and false.

[00:16:20]>> Okay. So, well, does God believe false things?

[00:16:24]>> What do you What do you mean he believes it?

[00:16:26]>> Like, you know, in principle, if somebody was uninformed on something, they might believe that 2 plus 2 is five. That would be a false thing.

[00:16:36]>> Yeah.

[00:16:36]>> So, can God believe false things?

[00:16:40]>> I don't believe that he believes false things. No.

[00:16:42]>> Okay. So, and Jesus is God, right?

[00:16:47]in a form. Yes.

[00:16:48]>> Okay. So Jesus doesn't believe false things.

[00:16:51]>> No.

[00:16:52]>> Okay. But Jesus did believe the flood literally happened.

[00:16:56]>> Well, you know the thing that is difficult for me is gospels are are written down as a perception. There's a lot that is fact.

[00:17:05]>> Okay. So then you don't believe so you don't believe the Bible accurately portrays who Jesus was?

[00:17:10]>> Who he was? Yes. Um but >> how do you their perceptions >> they are but but the thing is it's it's it's about building your own picture that you can relate to with it. It's I I don't understand the you know the thing is as well it's like saying how can you believe in your science because you can't actually prove what happened before this time or that time or whatever but 99% of it you understand 99% of it you are comfortable with but you can't >> but we don't know if any of we don't even know if any of the teachings of Jesus actually happened.

[00:17:43]>> Yeah. Well they they're gospels they're perceptions and that's what I was saying for me it's about what you align to yourself.

[00:17:50]>> Okay. So it's not about what's true.

[00:17:52]It it is about what's true. But you know, >> how do you know how do you know anything in the Bible is true if it's just all perception >> because a lot of it was historical fact.

[00:18:03]>> A lot of it was true.

[00:18:04]>> How do you know?

[00:18:07]>> Because it was documented by thousands and thousands.

[00:18:10]>> But it's all just perception, right?

[00:18:12]>> It's not all just taken out the Bible in terms of >> So, so all so all of the miracles that allegedly happened in the Bible, Jesus rising from the dead, that's only described in the Bible. this that's just perception. We don't know that that's true. We can't trust it.

[00:18:27]>> Well, that comes in terms of belief.

[00:18:30]>> Why would you believe something if you don't have any reason to trust the source of the belief?

[00:18:34]>> It's the exact same thing as science.

[00:18:36]It's like saying how do you know there was a big how how do you know there was a big >> I can give you evidence. I can give you evidence, right?

[00:18:43]>> I'm asking for what's the evidence for believing that Jesus rose from the dead, for example.

[00:18:49]The evidence is in terms of physical people who saw him from >> How do you know anybody did? You already you've already admitted that the Bible is not to be trust trusted as far as real things that happened >> in in terms of 100% trustworthy on the events that have >> You don't even need 100% trustworthy.

[00:19:04]You just need any any% trustworthy.

[00:19:06]>> Yeah.

[00:19:07]>> You've already established that. Like look, as far as I can tell, if you can't trust the literal quoting in two different gospels of Jesus describing the days of Noah and, you know, the flood wiping away everybody. If you can't trust that that a literal quote happened, that Jesus said a literal quote, then how could you ever trust that Jesus rose from the dead? People say things all the time, it's super believable that Jesus could have said those things. It is super not believable that Jesus rose from the dead. But you prefer to believe that Jesus rose from the dead rather than believe that Jesus believed that the flood happened >> because the difference is I believe that a lot of it is a representation like I said.

[00:19:47]>> Yeah. Including Jesus rising from the dead. Is that a representation?

[00:19:50]>> I don't believe that's a representation.

[00:19:52]>> Okay. So you pick and choose for the parts that make your worldview work >> theoretically, but I think everyone does that.

[00:19:58]>> But that's not So then there's no justification. There's no good reason.

[00:20:01]Isn't the the thing is it's isn't that the point of religion? You've got to find what what you are happy with, what you aligned to and that you you are you believe in and can follow.

[00:20:12]>> Okay. So, it sounds like you're telling me that there isn't a reason to believe in God. It just is the one that you like.

[00:20:18]It's it's in terms of >> in the realm of science mind like he shatters limits breaks through fears.