This analysis provides a sharp autopsy of Hollywood’s most delusional epic, where star-driven hubris and radioactive negligence collided. It is a sobering look at a time when cinematic spectacle completely abandoned historical sanity for the sake of the box office.
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Talkernate History - The Conqueror (1956)Added:
Hello and welcome to Talking History, the podcast where we, Matt and Max, talk about works of alternate history, alternate history scenarios, and history in general. This episode we're going to talk about an epic film, a truly epic film.
>> From the age of epic films, The Conqueror about Genghask Khan.
>> What the did I just watch?
What the hell was that? Uh >> oh my god.
>> Oh my goodness. Uh and >> wow, >> this is an infamous film. An absolutely infamous film. And uh >> I remember reading about this movie years ago. Year long time ago.
>> I think I was in elementary school when I first heard about this movie. And in my mind, I pictured like some grainy black and white really old movie shot on a shoestring budget. I did not >> poverty row. Yeah. Yeah. Republic pictures that kind of thing. I did not expect it to be like a bombastic colorful cinemma scope super widescreen thing. Uh yeah, you this movie is you probably know but this movie is famous as because it has Genghask Khan as played by John Wayne in the role of a lifetime.
>> The the role he was born to play.
Really?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Mary and Robert Morrison born to play this role. That farm boy from Iowa, the Duke himself.
>> Oh my god. The con himself.
>> The con himself.
>> The great con.
>> Oh, sweet Jesus. This >> Oh man. So yeah. Yeah. Uh >> I mean could there be a more miscast? I mean >> I I really honestly cannot think of anything like it is so absurd. And the way he talks in this movie, no accent whatsoever, which is maybe a good thing, honestly. And he's just doing his standard delivery of everything.
>> Yeah. John Wayne from Enter Western movie here. Enter war the war wagon here.
>> Yeah. Yeah. The stage coach, like all this stuff, it's just >> or or the the fighting CBS.
>> The fighting CBS. Yeah.
>> Honestly, a grenade would have made this movie better.
>> A lot could have made this movie better.
This is a pretty bad film, honestly. It actually is just I mean that's like the first note I would have is like this movie is actually just kind of bad. And not even I mean there are things about it that make it I'm glad we watched it because it's ridiculous and insane, but it's not like a >> so good it's bad. Like if you if you said you had to watch Wild Geese 2 or this movie after seeing both, I'd watch Wild Geese 2 again.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Though I mean don't get us wrong, there were things that we were laughing pretty hard at in >> Oh my god. Well, it's definitely I mean it's worth a watch one time just to soak in the >> Yeah. And and maybe you know maybe maybe liberally hit the fast forward on a certain certain parts of the film, but we'll uh >> talk about pulling the drag shoot on this movie. Holy [ __ ] Sometimes >> Yeah, there's um Oh man. But um but I guess you know we'll just say what happens right at the beginning. So, you know, first thing you're hit with a very ominous sign, a Howard Hughes production.
Oh, no.
And to kind of explain that, Howard Hughes, eccentric billionaire, aviation pioneer >> and film pioneer.
>> Film pioneer. Yeah. Yeah. He his film Hell's Angels, which is about World War I fighter pilots, was at the first Academy Awards. It was nominated for um best picture.
>> I think best picture. Okay. Yeah.
>> I mean, and that was made in like 1927 or 28 and this movie came out in 1956.
>> Right. Right. So, a lot of time has passed since then. And um so some about Howard Hughes. He uh so he was a director of Hell's Angels and then kind of went more in the producer direction of things and eventually ended up acquiring RKO Pictures which was one of the major five studios in Hollywood. RKO >> Colia >> Columbia, >> not Universal. That's what we talked about in the Fighting CBS ones.
>> One of the the major minors. Uh Paramount all those things.
>> Paramount. Yeah.
>> And RKO. They made >> Warner Brothers.
>> Warner Brothers. Those patriotic patriotic Warner Brothers, those big patriots.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But yes, RKO pictures.
>> But yeah, RKO. I mean, they >> Radio Keith Orpheium.
>> Yeah. What a strange name for a company.
Orpheium. Keith. Yeah. Very weird.
>> Well, it comes from a merger of companies from the Keith Orpheium like theater group or something.
>> Yeah. I think that's part of the phenomenon that existed within Hollywood where these big studios owned their own theaters so they could just pump these films directly to them and get pretty much all the profits from them. And it was and then the United States government came in and broke up that monopoly they used to have. And actually Howard Hughes was one of the first movers to agree to this to give up to separate the theaters and the movie making into separate entities.
>> And it's all interesting because obviously you know he starts with the aviation stuff but Howard Hughes is like one of the richest people in the world for you know from about 1925 until like the 70s but he also but his family it was family money and the money was made in >> work tools and drill bits.
>> Drill bits and stuff. Yeah. because his his family owned the patent. So, he's not a self-made man. He was born into all of this. Yes.
>> And that kind of reflects in his work ethic on a lot of things. So, when he was a director, he would just flagrantly waste everyone's times by making them do take after take or like uh he famously directed The Outlaw, which is actually a Walter Houston movie. I believe it's about Billy the Kid. It's a western. And he would force everyone to sit around and wait until he had cloudy skies so he could have clouds in the background of the scene. Wait for days.
Just like the flagrant disrespect for the people who were trying to earn a living. And but to him it was no big deal cuz he would just plop another million dollars on the table out of his pocket.
>> How many drill bits were these people selling? My god.
And I mean that's that's reflected in many of the films he made. And um as a studio head at RKO, he would just just be a nightmare for anybody who was a director. Like there was this film called The Narrow Margin. Good movie, but he did his absolute best to ruin it.
To absolutely ruin it by telling people to, oh, change this in the story. There was a character who's supposed to be a corrupt cop. And it's like, ah, I don't want any corrupt cops in my movies. I want the cops to be good guys. So he's not a corrupt cop. So that subplot is just completely dropped from the movie.
Uh there was a movie called His Kind of Woman with Robert Mitchum and they finished the movie. The the movie was done. John Pharaoh did it and Howard Hughes told him to reshoot a bunch of stuff and he said, "Baby, I'm on contract. I got other movies I need to make. Go get someone else." So he like Howard Hughes impressed some guy and forced him to to make all these changes to add like 30 minutes of Vincent Price scenes because he really liked Vincent Price.
So dealing with this guy was a nightmare. An absolute nightmare.
>> Well, he he was probably mentally ill or had some personality disorder or something. He definitely had obsessivempulsive disorder towards the end of his life. I mean, he was a >> he was basically a shut in. He was very influential. We were not talking about this before we recorded about how he was incredibly influential in the formation and sort of the growth of Las Vegas.
>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I believe he lived in the Desert Sands Hotel and he ended up buying other property. There's a legend that the light from a a casino across the street was bothering him at night.
So, he bought the casino so to move the signs so it no longer shown into his window. That that's probably an urban legend, but that's just the level of eccentricity we're talking about here.
>> Yeah.
>> And he almost never left his house.
>> He was like a shut in towards the end of his life.
>> Yeah. Especially towards the end. Yeah.
And was doing all sorts of other odd things. He maybe bribed Richard Nixon, which may have been one of the things that caused the Watergate breakin. Like I need to see if the Democrats know that Howard Hughes gave me $100,000 or something like that through my brother or something. Yeah. Yeah.
uh just a he's kind of a fascinating guy that I would like to know more about.
>> He is the character of Willard White in Diamonds Are Forever, >> the James Bond movie, is 100% Howard Hughes.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. He's like a shutin billionaire that no one's seen ever or hasn't seen in many years.
>> That's fascinating. I need to I don't think I've ever actually watched that one to be honest.
>> It is definitely the weakest of the Connory.
>> Okay.
>> I mean I like >> not like the great thunderball. No, there's Bill. I actually like Thunderball because it kind of embraces the Bond silliness. The best of them is Goldfinger. And you know, you know what?
I was thinking about this the other day.
You know that Shan Connory is the best James Bond because if you go to someone and say, "Do a James Bond impression.
They do you're a smoosh money penny.
They don't do No one does a George Lenby impression >> or a Roger Moore impression."
>> Yes. Let me dress as a clown and run around East Berlin.
>> The Great Octopusy. What a film. It's definitely the worst. That That has to be >> That's so funny that I went to that James Bond birthday and the first movie you watch is Octopusy.
What are you doing?
>> So, that is probably objectively one of the worst James Bond movies. My god, >> it's so bad.
>> Yes.
>> George McDonald Frasier, shame on you.
Shame on >> That's right. There's a scene where James Bond has to shoot a he's sliding down a banister shooting a check AK-47 and he's going to slide into it has and it has like a protrusion that goes up so he has to shoot it so you know his nuts don't get crushed.
>> Wow.
>> Thanks, Roger.
>> Yay.
>> How would he go on?
>> It makes you miss the hover gondola from Moonrakaker.
>> You know, I guess you're right. I mean, I think I also kind of like the over-the-top silliness aspect of James Bond because Moonrakaker is so funny.
>> Well, if if you're going to go if you're going to do that, Moonraker is the movie you make. You make James Bond in space.
Yeah.
>> You you really you just you just say, "Fuck it." And you go all the way in.
You're either in or you're out. You don't do the weirdo halfway through.
Either that or you make for your eyes only, which is like a very realistic >> Sure. Sure.
>> you know.
>> Yeah.
>> So, but yeah, so Howard Hughes is uh he was the owner of RKO. Um uh uh Fallout New Vegas, uh the character Mr. House is 100% uh Howard Hughes. If you ever watch that Fallout TV show, I bet they'll talk about him in the second season because they imply they're going to go to Vegas at the end of it. But uh yeah, just throwing that.
>> Um so, okay, let's get back to it. RKO Pictures.
>> Yeah, RKO Pictures, a legendary studio.
They made King Kong. They made Citizen Canain, you know, they made some of the greatest films ever made. Uh, >> The Flying Tigers.
>> Flying Tigers. So many.
>> No, The Fighting Leathernecks.
>> The Fighting Leathernecks.
>> Sorry. The Flying Tigers was made during World War II. We're going to try and review Flying Tigers at some point.
>> I would love to see this. Yeah, I'm interested. That's another John Wayne classic, isn't it?
>> John Wayne the Ace.
>> Why not add it to the repertoire of incredible characters he's played like John Wayne the Mongol?
John Wayne the CB. Uh John Wayne the jet pilot. Uh so many so many permutations of this.
>> I know he was so multiaceted in his acting and we get a real it's a real tour div force in this one.
>> Well uh in the 1950s John Wayne John Wayne actually was friendly with Howard Hughes. They bonded over certain things.
Not liking communism was one of them.
And uh they actually had a pretty good relationship and he was eager to enter a picture deal with RKO. And according to what I've read, they were on a three-picture deal. And John Wayne really wanted to make an Alamo movie. He was fascinated by the story of the Alamo. Wanted to be in an Alamo film and Howard Hughes just kind of kept stringing him along saying, "Oh yeah, we're looking for a script. We're trying to find the right story for you." That kind of thing. never ended up happening at RKO. He would make an Alamo movie, which you have seen.
>> Yes. If only I could forget the Alamo.
>> Everyone wants to remember it, but I'm trying to forget it.
>> We should add that to the list. I think that >> we should Do we If we don't have it on there, yes, please. That movie is bad.
>> It It looks interesting.
>> The blunderb part is pretty funny with Jim Jim Buoie.
>> He has this like multi-barrel blunderb ridiculous. That sounds ridiculous. It's >> so bad.
>> Can you believe Walt Disney made a modern Alamo movie? Also, >> it did. Well, that wasn't even the first time it touched on the Alamo because Davy Crockett. Okay. They do Davy Crockett. They did, you can actually watch it on Disney Plus. Wow. Um, they have the two Davy Crockett versus the River Pirates and then Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier. And the end of it is the Alamo and you have Fes Parker fighting with his his Kentucky rifle at the end. Oh my god. And then they did the actual Billy, not the actual. My god, the um what's his name?
>> Oh, uh uh oh my god, >> Billy Bob Thornton.
>> Billy Bob Thornton. Yes, Billy Bob. Old Billy Bob. Um he they did that Alamo movie which was I've seen which is also terrible.
>> That must be what 2006 >> I think it's like 2004.
>> 2004.
>> All I know is at the end he gets captured and he's like something about Aken Yodel or something about Yodelin and then they kill him with swords.
Okay.
>> And I thought, man, couldn't we have done this earlier in this movie and just gotten it over with? This movie is like 3 hours long. Dennis Quaid, I think, is in that movie.
>> Oh boy. Well, speaking of three hours long, uh, The Conqueror is not three hours long, but it certainly feels like it because holy.
>> But, uh, but but so Howard Hughes and John Wayne had an agreement for three movies. no Alamo picture, but what ended up being made was The Flying Leathernecks, Jet Pilot, which is a movie I really want to watch.
>> We're gonna we're gonna do Jet Pilot.
>> I I read about it in this book about 1950s cinema by Foster Hirs, and it's it sounds fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. And then of course this film, The Conqueror, which was the third movie produced but the second released because >> the crown jewel in the RKO.
>> I think it was pretty this is pretty much the last movie that RKO made. I think >> like like legit big movie that they made. They might have made smaller ones and distributed other movies.
>> Well, they got sold, right? Did didn't Hughes sell it?
>> Yeah, Hughes ran the company pretty much directly into the ground. Uh, by the time The Conqueror was made, they were only making one or two movies a year and then it just self-destructed at that point. Like when they were making the movie, Hughes was basically one step out the door anyway. And uh, yeah, it's sad because this movie is kind of the deathnell of this big legendary studio.
>> Huge studio. Yeah.
>> Huge. Yeah. And it's kind of this last harrah for them. And uh actually more Howard Hughes talk here. Howard Hughes really was fascinated by this movie and Jet Pilot and Ice Station Zebra. These were the three big movies for him.
>> And he didn't he like watched them obsessively constantly >> obsessively over and over and over again. He he actually tried buying up every copy he could of The Conqueror and he had like a gigantic stash of them in storage trying to buy every single one he could. Why? I don't know.
Maybe because he was a because this was never released on television or on home video in his lifetime. In Howard Hughes's lifetime for >> it was released in theaters though.
>> It was released in theaters, right? But if you wanted to go watch The Conqueror again, you couldn't see a lot of movies would get reshown on television because their film libraries would get bought out by television studios and they would play them all the time.
>> So uh for instance, Jet Pilot was bought by Universal Pictures. So, Universal Pictures could release it and show it on television, but The Conqueror was under lock and key until after Hughes's death and it was also bought by Universal, I believe. And that's how we were able to buy this DVD today. Finally, the masses are able to watch this gym.
>> Yes. A funny story about Hughes, just to go back. So, >> he owned a local television station in Las Vegas. And I I should also say some of this stuff might just be urban legends. I mean, you know, when you talk about the entertainment industry, people prioritize >> cool and amusing over dry, factual, real, you know, but they would say that Hughes would call up the television station and request movies he wanted to watch because he's up at 4:00 a.m. He believed in something called natural sleep, which is I just go to bed when I'm tired. I don't follow mankind's arbitrary rules of when I should be awake or not awake.
So, it's 4:00 a.m. and Howard Hughes is naked eating ice cream on the phone saying, "I want you to play Ice Station Zebra a second time in a row. And by the way, remember who owns you?
I write the paychecks, buddy.
I station Zebra now.
We're not even done showing it the first time he started.
>> Well, that's the other thing, too.
Literally, like in the middle of movies, if he lost interest, he would just tell them to do something else.
A man with so much money and so much power and so little.
So little discretion.
Well, didn't you say he didn't like drinking though? Something of >> Yeah, he didn't like to drink. He didn't trust people who drank. And that's why a lot of his staff members were members of the Latter-day Saint a Latter-day Saints church.
>> He was also known as Mormons.
>> Also known as Mormons. Yeah. Colloially, I mean, everyone calls them just Mormons. Uh, and he liked them. He trusted them.
>> But they thought of him sitting there in his house naked eating ice cream >> cuz cuz he's not a Mormon. He is not.
But he just found them fascinating and he trusted them. He thought they were people that he could um rely on for discretion and for uh getting him ice cream and candy bars and bringing in his his his urine jars >> because he would also famously only urinate in jars, which again, is that true? I think it's true, but I don't really know. I need to read an actual legit biography of this guy.
>> Well, he also there was a lot about there was a guy who wrote a biography of him that was totally fake.
>> Totally fake. Totally made up. And he insisted, "Oh yeah, I I I met up with Howard Hughes and we talked about it and he dictated all this stuff." And Hughes is like pleading with people from isolation via like press releases that no, I promise this is not true. also multiple there was a there's actually a woman who's still alive as of the recording who claims to have been married to Hughes >> but he cla something about a ship captain married them or something it was >> yeah her name is Terry Moore who was actually born into the Latterday Saint Latter-day Saints uh church she was a Mormon and Howard Hughes befriended her basically told her that he could help her career this is a thing he did a lot an unscrupulous thing uh basically uh convincing young actresses that he could help their careers and he would put them in his movies, which didn't always help their careers.
But Terry Moore, she alleges that he had a ship captain marry the two of them, which if you know anything about the law, ship captains can't actually do that. That's a thing they talk about in movies and and television, but isn't actually true.
>> So, like, is she lying? Did Howard Hughes lie to her? Who the hell knows?
No one really knows.
>> Well, also there was also an issue with his will because because he was this like eccentric figure and he would do these eccentric things. So it's like, you know, people saying, "Oh, well, he left all his money to me randomly." It's like, "Oh, okay. Maybe he did. I don't know."
>> Yeah. Terry Moore, she was able to get a lot of money from the Hughes estate.
Why? Well, because that sounds like something he might have done. So, sure.
Here's a few million dollars. Why not?
It is fascinating. One of those really remarkable figures that doesn't get as much attention today, but you know, you go back to 1965, you know, very famous.
Ultra famous.
>> I really want to check out The Aviator.
>> I've seen it a long time ago, though.
>> Long time ago. Pro when it was in theaters.
>> No, after it came out.
>> Okay. Like when it was on TV.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. All right.
>> No, when they did the radio play.
>> The radiator. Uh >> the radiator. Uh, how is Hughes portrayed in that film? Just >> very eccentric. It's been a long time since I saw it, but I remember I think he he was portrayed as very like, you know, and he and that was the earlier part of his career where he was more famous for the spruce goose for aviation for setting these like speed records before he became kind of like the more stereotyped person. You know, we've been talking about the man living in isolation in Las Vegas with his ice cream and ice station zebra and and all that sort of thing. So, >> I always thought of him as a heroic figure who was laid low by mental illness. That's always what I thought he was. Partly because of the Rocketeer.
That's kind of how he's portrayed in there. He's very positively portrayed.
>> And it wasn't until I was reading about the history of Hollywood and how the crazy stuff he would do with these movies that I started leaning towards maybe this guy is not a heroic figure.
Maybe this guy is kind of I don't know kind of kind of shades of gray and maybe a little bit more >> bad. I don't know. But I'd love to learn more about >> Well, unlimited power.
>> Yeah. Well, exactly. That's the thing.
So much money. You can do literally whatever you want.
>> That's right.
>> Well, let's get back to conquering.
>> Yeah, the conqueror.
>> Conquering good taste is probably >> conquering an hour and a half of my life.
>> It did do that.
So yeah, as we said, terrible miscast.
Everything is m everyone is miscast.
>> Yeah, because it's not just John Wayne.
There's lots of people who are completely wrong for this movie. And probably number two with a bullet is Susan Hayward. My goodness. She's uh Bortai, the real life wife of Genghask Khan, but she's called Tarter Woman throughout most of this movie.
>> Right. John Wayne, who also, by the way, of course you've seen the pictures. John Wayne in a foo manu. I thought he was going to have kind of like the Asian, you know, stereotypical makeup to make you look, but no, he doesn't dragon seed stuff. He doesn't. He just is his normal coloring. He seems to be a little bit skinnier than usual and he's got a ridiculous foo manchu mustache. Every man in this movie has a ridiculous Fu Manchu mustache or beard or something.
>> Oh my goodness. Yeah, the just the people look so silly. Lee Van Clee is in this movie, by the way. Yeah.
>> Yeah. He's ripped.
>> Yeah. We We were He shows up in a scene in a camp scene and there's a guy with big muscles in the background and we're like, "Whoa, that guy really works out."
Oh my god, it's Lee Van Clee.
>> It's the bad from the good, the bad, and the ugly. Yes.
>> Or maybe also the ugly. I don't know.
>> No, I think he's the bad.
>> He's the bad. Okay.
>> But um but Susan Hayward, who looks, you know, I guess Ireland moved to the to Mongolia. She is a white woman. 100 red hair.
>> Yes.
>> A very fair complexion.
>> She might have blue eyes as well.
>> John Wayne has blue eyes. Those they talk about the piercing blue eyes of the con. Right.
>> Oh my god. Yeah. And she's she's just in a diiahous modern evening gown throughout most of the movie. Exactly.
>> Totally inappropriate for the setting >> for a movie that's set in the 11 to 1200s in Mongolia. uh what is now Mongolia. There's a shocking lack of Asian people. Yeah. There's like one or two and a lot of the background characters are paid by I think you said Pyute Indians.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Pyute Indians from the local reservation. So this was filmed in St. George, Utah, which is far southern Utah, uh near the Nevada border. And right outside of St. George, there's a place called Snow Canyon, which is where they shot all the exteriors for this movie. And uh I guess that we should also touch on the other kind of infamous thing about this movie which is that >> but the the other thing this film is really well known for not just for John Wayne being Genghask Khan is the supposition that a large number of the cast was contaminated by radioactive material during the filming of this and then later contracted cancer because of it >> because it was supposedly downwind from a an atomic weapons testing site. Yeah.
Yeah. Yucka Flats.
>> Yucka Flat. Yeah. Yeah. In Nevada.
Nevada. Yeah.
>> And I looked it up. They're they're actually pretty far away. It's like 150 miles or something. But I mean, you know, the fallout carries a long distance. And I read this book called Killing John Wayne, the Making of the Conqueror by Ryan Utilligan.
>> Utiligan.
>> I assume this is like an >> Looks Dutch.
>> Yeah, Dutch. It's got to be Dutch. Um, and they talked a lot about this.
Apparently, St. George in Utah did indeed suffer like a higher level of birth defects and cancers among its populace, especially because the community is mostly members of the Latter-day Saints church. So, they don't smoke, they don't drink, and yet they still had a relatively high rate of cancer. So, people think, oh, it's because of the atomic testing or whatever. And uh there's a lot of that talked about in this book. And I'm just going to say I'm not really convinced that that like John Wayne specifically died of cancer because of this. And like I don't know, anything's possible. Maybe a few people could have been exposed to radiation and gotten cancer. But I I don't know. I think there's better explanations for this for some of the people.
>> This is a good time to put up pictures of John Wayne endorsing a cool mild Camel. Was it Camel cigarettes?
>> I think it's Camels. Yeah, I think that was his his brain. smoked a lot >> and like people smoked a ton back then >> and John Wayne was very famous for being a smoker >> and then for contracting lung cancer not that long after this movie was made.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> He he first got cancer like 15 or so years before he died. Had a lung removed.
>> He was actually the person who coined the term the big C for cancer.
>> Right. Yeah.
>> Which is interesting. And he died of stomach cancer though not lung cancer.
>> Right. Yes. which but smoking is also smoking is basically correlated with every form of cancer.
>> Well, I think he he also did chewing tobacco as well which obviously you know if that stuff goes down your esophagus it can give you >> shouldn't it shouldn't but you know you can get cancer from that that way. So, I mean, I don't know. I think the the major use of tobacco is a little bit more likely to be the cause of the death of John Wayne, but of course, you can't know these things, you know, and it's impossible >> because well, talk not just they filmed downwind from the test site.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Okay. So, they filmed for a couple months in 1954 between I I don't know like May and and July or something like that. May and August perhaps. So, they were there for a few months, but the movie was done shooting and Howard Hughes was looking at the rushes and he said, "I don't like some of these scenes. Let's do them in a studio." So, they decided to do re-shoots on the RKO uh lot. And in order to do this, they sent trucks to Utah to get sand and dirt from the location in Snow Canyon and ship it back to California. Because of course the audience would riot if they saw inauthentic dirt in these scenes.
This is another example of like the insane waste of money that was happening at the hands of this guy.
>> Well, the trucking company was like, "Yeah, sure. We'll drive out. Yeah, you want you'll pay us to drive out to Utah to pick up some dirt?"
>> Absolutely.
>> Sure.
>> And and >> that'll be $20,000, please. Yeah. Sure.
And the author of the book supposes that this may have increased the chances of exposure to something radioactive in the sand and dirt that they brought in. So, you know, again, I don't know. It can't be proven one way or the other. It's plausible it could have happened, >> but that's Yeah, that's definitely the other thing that this movie is famous for was a very a relatively high percentage. Although, again, remember this is the height of like >> Yeah.
>> people smoking in the United States is like the 40s to like the 60s. Like that is the I mean people were smoking everywhere.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean talk to people who remember being on planes where they had a smoking section. My god.
>> It's crazy to think about. My goodness.
Dick Powell, the director. Yeah. He also died of cancer and he was also in smoking ads. He also smoked quite a bit.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh Susan Hayward smoked. They all they pretty much all did.
>> Interesting about Dick Powell. you pointed this out as we're do, you know, doing a little bit of research for it is he started in like musicals. He was like an actor in musicals.
>> Yeah. He was like a pretty boy dancing and singing guy and eventually he was unhappy with his image and decided to become a tough guy. He's in the film Murder My Sweet, which is actually not a bad movie. I I I I enjoyed it. I I liked it a lot more than The Big Sleep, which is the other Raymond Chandler uh Philip Marlo movie. And Dick Pow was the first guy to play Philip Marlo.
>> Interesting.
>> And uh I think The Big Sleep is a is an incoherent mess. It's good for the the aesthetic and everything, but if you want to have a story, it's awful. You have no freaking clue what's going on.
Uh but yeah, Dick Powell. So he he was an actor and eventually he decided he wanted to become a director. And this movie, The Conqueror, was the second movie he ever directed.
>> Wow.
>> It's like, hey, give here's this gigantic one of the biggest budgets of all time for a movie. I mean, it was matt like five or $6 million, right?
Something huge.
>> If you look at the poster of the movie, it says right there, $6 million, two years in the making. It's it's crazy.
>> And wow, where did that $6 million go?
>> That's a great question >> cuz you have Okay, so this it's a Genghaskhan origin story. It's not even Genghaskhan at his peak.
>> He's still Teujin.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And he's the the the chief of the Mongols. And basically this is about his rise to power. He stops a convoy of merketss.
>> Yeah. And the merketss have somehow gotten a hold of Bortai who the Tarters.
>> She's a Tartar princess. Her father murdered John Wayne's father.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> Um but she's going to be marrying Taratee or Targetai who is a merket.
>> Yes. And John Wayne basically you could sum up, you know, this movie is uh where was the note? I had a good note. Yeah.
Moral of the story, John Wayne's dick gets this tribe in trouble.
>> Oh no.
>> Um because uh he he basically takes a liking to her and decides to raid the convoy, capture her, and um that starts off this recrimination. This movie is really hard to follow and it took us way longer than like it's like an hour and 50 minutes long and it took us way longer than that to watch it because it is eminently forgettable at times. The pacing's not great.
>> Yeah. Like it's it it does a terrible job of explaining what merketss are, Mongols, uh >> tartars, which are actually tar tatars.
>> Tatar. Yeah, I think it's Tatar. And I think at some point a European corruption of it was tartar. So I think I think it's actually Tatar, but there's also Tartar thrown in there.
>> Have mercy. This is just But the thing is is that so everyone engages in Yoda talk.
>> Yes. Oh my goodness.
>> We have some choice.
>> Yeah. Let's see. We wrote some stuff down. Uh so okay, John Wayne sees Susan Award, who is a >> outrageously white woman.
>> No attempt to make aation. Oh, by the way, we forgot this at the very beginning. It says, "This story, though fiction, is based on fact."
>> And you know, I got to hand it to him.
But at least you at least you said that >> this story, though fiction, >> is also fiction.
>> It's just fiction in it.
>> Which is very honest because there's so many movies that are like based on a true story. At least this one has the nuts to, you know, say, "Yeah, this is fake, but it's based on truth."
>> But But an example of some of the weird dialogue. So John Wayne gallops up to this convoy where Susan Hayward is being I guess moved to her wedding or whatever.
>> There's a bunch of yurt. There's her yurts being transferred. Love a good yurt.
>> Love a good yurt. Yeah. Beautiful yurts in this movie. The high point of the film. Uh but he talks to I think Tate.
Is Tate in this convoy?
>> Yes.
>> He's next to her. Yeah.
>> So he talks to Tate. John Wayne does.
And he says something like, "This woman is amazing, but I will now leave." And Tate says in response, "Such humbleness sits ill, a Mongol, and Tate is not deceived, but I seek no dispute." Like, what kind of sentence is that? My god.
Just make everything as confusing as possible.
talking about himself in the third person, using words backwards in a sentence, just just, >> you know, ill, the son of Tatai.
>> And and John Wayne, uh, when they get to the top of the hill, he looks down with his with his blood brother, >> Jamuga.
>> Jamuga. Yeah.
>> Played by Pedro Armen. Is it Armenz?
>> Let me look at the way it's spelled.
Hold on.
>> He was a Mexican actor.
>> Pedro Armandares.
>> Armenarez. Yeah. Uh, he says to his buddy, "This tartar woman is for me. My blood says take her."
Wait, I'm sorry. I I did that too dynamically. Let me do it like John Wayne. This tarter woman is for me. My blood says take her. That's the That's his delivery throughout the whole film.
>> Very Yes, he is. That >> flat as a pancake.
And then her her dad, Susan Hayward's dad is the chief of the Tarters and he's Kum Kumlech.
>> Kumchum, I think is his name. Yeah.
>> Or something.
>> It's pronounced the names are pronounced inconsistently throughout the film.
>> Yeah. So, and and John Wayne has a bird.
He's got a falcon.
>> He does. and he looks ridiculous in the and he he later on wears what appears to be like a Mongol uh picklehound and just >> very silly. Um and then uh >> you meet his mom.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So John Wayne goes back to his home camp and meets his mom who is played by Agnes Moorehead who's in super crone mode. She's like charact female character actor extraordinaire of playing old dowbdy bitter you know old women.
>> She's also like seven years older than John Wayne.
>> We looked it up exactly 7 years older.
So >> really not that old honestly. She's 52 in this movie. Something like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but yeah, God knows why she's in this movie but she's uh she's she's uh Genghaskhan's mother. We found out something shocking too while researching this. She was in Dragon Seed.
>> Yes.
>> She was third cousin's wife.
>> Wife. The treacherous third cousin's wife, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Playing a very similar character to this one.
>> No. No. Third cousin isn't treacherous.
His wife is treacherous.
>> His wife is treacherous. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Cuz that's the the hand is stronger for the beating. I can't.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry. Hey, don't worry. I beat her until she couldn't stand anymore. Like, what are you talking about? Third cousin. My god.
Clarence, what are you talking?
I've never seen this side of you before.
It's disturbing.
>> And then you see you see the you see the Mongol camp. There's his other brother, not Jamuga. Although Jamuga is not his blood brother. He's not his actual brother. He's his uh some you see a man bending metal for some unknown reason.
>> Yeah, he looks like Carac. He's like a big fat guy with a bald head and he's just bending metal and feats of strength. It's very goofy.
>> Yeah, >> extremely goofy.
>> Well, they ambush. He takes his troops and they ambush um they ambush the >> murketss. Oh god, it's so hard. We just watched this movie and I am confused.
>> The story is both extremely simple and incomprehensible at the same time.
>> But yes, they uh they attack the merketss and kill them all.
>> Not all of them. They let they let target go. Although John Wayne >> he stabs him in the butt.
>> He does stab him in the butt at one point. Although he doesn't seem to he seems to have no ill feelings from his rear being pierced by the arrow of so who gives a [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. The the speaking in this movie is ridiculous.
>> And so he goes away and there's there's Susan Hayward. There's Bortai and he just rips her shirt off. You don't see you don't you don't Although the other Mongols her eyes kind of widen up a little bit.
>> I'm sure Howard Hughes's eyes widened as well >> watching this the rushes for this movie like Yes. Yes. Hooray.
He's a real sex pervert weirdo. That guy I'll tell you a real sex pest as the British would say.
>> Yeah.
>> They use that term for people who Yeah.
I mean they'll say stuff and it'll be like this person's a >> It's a spectrum.
>> Yeah. It's a sex pest.
>> They're like, "This is a sex pest."
Yeah.
>> You read about something, you're like, "That doesn't really sound like a pest.
That sounds a whole lot worse than a pest." Because you think a pest is like, "Oh, that guy's a pest at work. He's really annoying."
>> Yeah.
>> It's like a a a squirrel in your attic and a grizzly bear in your living room.
You know, the the level of pest.
>> The British have so many good lines. Bin that knife.
>> Yeah, that's a good one.
>> Bin that knife or Kier Starmer is going to bin your [ __ ] life.
He's going to take you and toss you right into the bin.
>> That dry, boring technocrat. I love that the head of the Labor Party, the current prime minister now is Sir Kier Starmer.
Only in Britain would the head of the left-wing party be a knight if >> I love it.
>> He's going to bin the [ __ ] out of you.
him and Richishy Sunnak.
>> That's another un unlikely candidate.
Yeah.
>> For binning.
>> For binning.
>> Well, he did get banned.
>> His ass got banned big style.
>> I watched an interview with Liz Truss the other day. Uh >> she's still around.
>> She's still alive, believe it or not.
>> But no, I was watching an interview with the Telegraph and I don't know, >> I kind of like her. You know, her personality, I guess. Not I I don't know anything about her politics at all, but she >> Well, no one else did anyway because she was prime minister for about 10 seconds.
>> She's kind of a charming woman. I don't I I'm just saying.
>> Well, she's still she's still in parliament, right?
>> I think she is. Yes. Yeah, she was she a she was able to avoid the purge.
>> That's right. That took out so many >> so many. It's tragic.
>> But but it did give us one thing. Nigel Farage.
>> Oh boy. Yeah. Of Clactton now.
>> Yeah. Reform. Yes.
>> It's funny. We recorded that episode and then we said, "Oh, yeah."
>> In a year from now, how >> how how irrelevant he is now. Oh, and then he's he's an MP in Congress suddenly.
>> Congress.
>> Oh, what?
>> Parliament. Sorry. God, Congress. Nigel Farage.
>> But but suddenly he's back on the scene.
Suddenly he's an MP now. So >> that's right.
>> You can never really know.
>> Who else is going to fight the SNP and fight labor?
>> We got to wipe them out.
>> Who's going to stop the Lib Dems? I promise I will eliminate Scotland from the United Kingdom.
The word Scotland will only be spoken of in history books after I'm elected.
The UK will be independent from Scotland.
>> That's right. Yes. Finally, we can escape the grip of those Der Scots.
They did invent Scotch whiskey though, as Arturo says. Oh, that's right. Yeah.
The great Arturo.
>> One of the times I've ever probably the drunkest I've ever been in my life. One of the times was in Scotland.
>> Oh, really?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> That's We won't get any further than that, but yes. I don't really remember.
>> Was it uh Iron Brew? Is that what it is?
>> Iron Brew is um No, it's a soda. It's like It sells more than Coca-Cola there.
I get fried Mars bars. That's a great Scottish invention.
>> Okay. All right. Yeah, >> the bag pipe.
>> The bag pipe. There's so many >> Braveheart.
>> So many great things. Yeah.
>> Yes. Alex Salmon.
>> Nicholas Sturgeon. The Scots had a real trend there of electing people whose last names were fish.
>> Yeah. What's the conservative lady? I can't even remember her name. I think she's out of power at this point. Do you >> The lady on the tank?
>> Ruth. Ruth.
>> Yes. Ruth something.
>> Ruth Davidson, >> maybe.
>> I think so.
>> Straddling the tank gun.
>> Yeah. That's so funny. That's extremely funny.
and playing soccer. Fantastic.
>> Nice. Well, yes. So, here we go. We Bortai's been brought. The implications of this movie are kind of horrifying.
>> Yeah. The uh I'll just come out and say it. I mean, the way they depict women in this movie as just things to be stolen back and forth. Uh yeah. And I mean, it's pretty there's there's a lot of implications that John Wayne's character takes her by force several times throughout the course of this film. And it's not >> and it causes her to love him. That's the worst.
>> Loves him by the end of the movie. She's willing to sacrifice her own father for the sake of the great John Wayne at the end of this movie, which is just absurd.
The whole thing is just ridiculous.
Well, after Bortai has been kidnapped back, these people are singing and they're playing they're playing instruments and they look like like the not the Baronstein bears. What are they like the country bear jamboree at Disney World where the people are like >> they're moving in this highly robotic way and >> the Showtime pizza animatronics?
>> Are they Chuck-E-Cheese?
>> Good old Chuck-E-Cheese.
>> And the instruments are so goofy. It looks like something straight out of the Star Wars cantina.
>> The big >> And then you're looking around the camp and there's a panther.
>> There's a panther. Yeah. That's another infamous thing about this movie is that apparently Susan Hayward was allegedly attacked by that panther on set while filming. It contributes nothing to the movie. It's It's in the deep background a couple times and then there's one or two close-ups of it.
>> Yeah. But uh but yeah, that's uh >> yeah. Oh, and you have some choice lines. Here's a good one. Dance for Teigen. I take you for wife.
>> Please dance for teen. I take you for wife. Like that.
>> It sounds sort of like Kevin in the office when he says, "Why say many word when few word do trick?"
Why say lot word when few word do trick?
>> Yeah, they call this a romance this movie. This is not romance. This is very unromantic. Yeah.
>> Um, >> but also they can't escape from the fact that this was filmed in the American Southwest because a lot of the yurts have like clearly like Mexican or Native American style blankets and clothes. And >> we were laughing so hard at the clearly like hopy blankets and all this other stuff as the entrances to these. It's so silly.
>> Yeah, it's so dumb. Although then then [ __ ] Oh god, I forgot his name already.
Yeah, this is how this is how >> Jamga.
>> Not Jamuka. Jam Jamuga.
>> Jamu.
>> Um uh tardig guy. Tardig for [ __ ] sake. I can't keep this [ __ ] >> This is so We watched this movie 30 minutes ago. What happened?
>> Oh my god.
>> [ __ ] sake. Tardig guy. I think >> if we didn't have >> Tate. Yeah. If we didn't have these notes in front of us, we'd be lost.
>> Tardigrain. Uh >> he he attacks the camp and John Wayne kills him with a lance.
>> Yes. And that it looks awesome, too. He grabs the lance, snaps it in half, and I think throws it at him. He does.
>> Oh my god, it looks awesome.
>> Um Yeah. So they uh but they get chased and then they hide in a crevice.
>> Yeah. And >> and then they love scene happens.
>> So much romance here as she struggles to turn her face away from Jaw kissing her.
>> Yeah.
>> Good God.
>> Lord have mercy. And they come back to the camp and the panther is dead.
>> The panther has died. It's so sad. I couldn't believe it.
>> And then Lee Van Cleiff's character we've got, his name is Shab.
>> Shab. Yeah.
>> Shave.
>> Shabet I think. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Also, John Wayne as we mentioned ear looks quite thin in this. You said something about they like >> Yeah. According to the book I read, he wanted to lose a lot of weight and you know doctors at that time would just give you ridiculous drugs just for tiny little things you're trying to do. So they gave him dexadrine which is a form of enmphetamine. It's very similar to aderall. M.
>> So he was just taking lots and lots of Aderall while filming this movie to the point where you can't see it in any scene, but he was apparently his hands were shaking constantly. God. And but you know, I guess it succeeded in slimming him down because he does not he looking pretty good, I guess.
>> Yeah. For someone who is close to 50 at that point.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Also, so he gets back into and after he gets back into town. He gets back to the yurts. Um >> the boys are back in town. Um, and they he's like, "Where are the centuries?"
And he has the centuries brought to him and they say they were drunk.
>> Yeah.
>> Because they got ambushed. So they weren't the centuries weren't at their jobs.
>> And he what does he say? He says he says, "Hang them." And they they show that really great 1950s acting. They react.
>> Zero reaction.
>> Yeah. He could have said, "We're having milk at the craft table today." And they would have had the exact same.
>> What the script didn't say I should emote at all. So I just, you know, just stood there. you know what do you want from me?
>> Goodness. And they so let's see there's some other good quotes we have here before we get to the next >> uh oh they they talk about having a soothsayer try to predict something and they call him a sooayer like soothing >> like a throat disc soothing soothing your throat.
>> Yeah.
>> With the koala on it. Yeah.
>> Um here's another one. Here's a good quote. She is woman much woman. Should her perfidity >> perity >> sure her should her perity be much less than any other woman? I think he said that to >> he said that to Jamuga because she uses her she has her slave called Jamuga into her tent and she's like hey like you know I can make it worth your while if you like help me get it out get out of here and he's like no no I can't you know and then the attack happens that's when the attack happens and then John Wayne sees him coming out of her yurt and you know because his blood told him to take her something he's really angry at Jamuga and something.
Oh god. Um, >> perity.
>> And they're going to go um going to go to the town, the city of Urgga to meet >> Yeah.
>> Wang Khan.
>> They call him Wang Khan, even though it should be Wong Khan.
>> Yes. Wang.
>> Wang. Like uh big trouble of Little China, Kurt Russell's character.
>> Exactly.
>> Are you out of your mind? Wang.
>> Yes. And And while they're there, uh, Bortai tries to kill him with a sword.
>> Yeah.
>> But he just easily deflects it. Oh, I think you're really you're glossing over the interminable dance scene that happens in this endless dancing.
>> Oh, no, no, no. I'm talking about the first time she tries to kill while they're near the pond.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then like John Wayne scoops up pond water and gives it to her to drink. Like here I have this stale fetted water probably with bones of animals floating in it. Just drink this. And she but and then like she tries to kill him with a sword and he just grabs her and carries her into the tent and they kiss. So romantic.
>> So romantic. Yeah.
>> This is definitely consensual what's happening here. There's nothing weird going on there.
>> And then Max, talk about when they get to Wang Khan's court.
>> Wang Khan's court. So they really they they went back in wardrobe and found like generic Chinese costumes. So there's rice hats, lots of silk shirts and stuff. And Wang Khan appears. He's kind of a portly guy, but the real star >> kind of looks he's got a foo man shoe, too. Of course.
>> Well, everybody, >> he's a white guy with a foo man shoe.
>> All the men do. If only the women had foo man shoes as well. Agnes Morehead with a big f.
>> But Wayne Khan is on his little throne and the one of the funniest characters in the whole movie is right next to him.
His sham shaman.
>> They say shaman.
>> Shaman. Yeah. not a shaman or shaman shaman. Uh, and he's this I guess wizard or whatever. And he looks so silly. He is the silliest person in the whole movie.
>> His eyes are like like he's the only person who's really really squinting super hard. His eyes are basically closed. Uh, and he's he's he's just foo man chewuning foo manchewing up. And this Wang Khan, by the way, is based off of a real person who may have been a historian Christian, which is interesting. Is it one of the churches in the East?
>> Yeah, we we looked up the characters in this film on Wikipedia and were shocked to see, okay, these people are real people. Hun is the name of Gangghaskhan's mother, you know, that kind of thing. So, we admit we don't actually know very much about this section of of history. the pre Gangask.
I I mean the whole Mongol Empire, it is fascinating. We should probably do some history in general.
>> Yeah. Is that it really is a it is a remarkable the world's largest contiguous land empire. But it took a long time. I mean Genghaskhan conquers obviously the Mongols really by the time he dies 1227. His conquest really then extends into probably what's about southern Russia and northern Iran. But that's where it ends. But it's his successors that over the next 50 years or so really expands. to like northern he also conquers parts of northern China around Beijing but not much south of Beijing. It's really the conquest down to the Yellow River and really it takes until Kubla like 50 years later that the southern China is finally conquered.
>> But also by that point the Mongol Empire splinters, right? It does. It becomes the satellite >> because it extends deep into the middle middle east. It gets into Europe. I mean there are Mongol hordes make it to Poland, Hungary. I think as far as modern day Germany. I mean there are, you know, people thought it was the apocalypse and saved only in somewhat by the fact that they Mongol leaders had to head back to Mongolia to elect a new Khan because the old Khan had died. Not Genghis, one of his successors. I think it was Ogodai Khan.
>> Ogodai.
>> But I mean the Mongols. So they but they splinter. You're right. And to the Ilanate, the Golden Horde, which becomes Turkosized and becomes Muslim. Then you have like the the Kublakan. that kingdom, >> the Yuan dynasty >> becomes the Yuan dynasty in China and like very specifically Kubla sought to be seen as like the heir to the previous Chinese dynasty and then they become basically Chinese until they're overthrown by the Ming um what becomes the Ming dynasty and you have like Tamarlain comes later and expands into India uh the Central Asia that's the defining feature of Central Asia >> for a long time >> I got to say that it seems like a baffling choice to make the life of Genghaskhan centered on this tiny little tribe versus tribe war like what what >> well maybe because maybe it's partially because it lends itself better to the scope of the movie they wanted to make they didn't have like CGI to have giant battles but also like by the time they get into full like San Marcan they're pushing into Central Asia like the Mongols were absolutely brutal the slaughter that they brought with them I mean and and here's the thing too by the way in this movie there's a lot of sword fighting and spears and [ __ ] but like really the Mongols are famous for like the recurved bow. I mean they their their tactics, the way they fought, I mean they were almost unstoppable really. One of the first great defeats ever by the Mongols doesn't happen till late in the 13th century which is at analute where the Mammlukes defeat the rear guard of the Mongols at Analute which is in present day Israel kind of near the Sea of Galilee.
>> Interesting. Okay.
>> Okay. But uh it I mean they absolutely devastate huge portions of of Asia, but they splinter because their empire is just too big. And in a premodern communications era, it's just really really hard to control.
>> But it is incredible the blobbing which occurred in such a small amount of time, you know, SM Sterling style. It just it seems totally unlikely and yet it happened.
>> Yeah.
>> In in just a course of a couple decades.
Well, this whole the big sweep of these groups coming off the step out of Central Asia, attacking into Europe and mid the Middle East is very I mean it kind of you had first like the the Goths, the Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogos, >> the Huns, >> Kuns, Avars, Maguars, and then a lot of them end up settling what?
>> Kummanians or uh >> Khazars >> Kummans. Kummans.
>> Kummans. Yeah. In Czechoslovakia.
>> Yeah. It's just these endless these invasions over the step and most of those people end up settling down and eventually becoming like they like just like the Mongol Empire goes from what's pretty much basically a rural pastoral almost hunter gatherer like migratory groups into settling into you know what does Kuba do? He makes them we are the we're the heirs to the Chinese dynasties you know sort of thing like that. So over time, but some of these horde, these like the golden horde was around for a long time, hundreds of years.
>> The Russians even fought against them.
>> Right. Right.
>> And the Russians were invaded a lot by the Mongols, Tartars, groups like that.
And I think that I've I've heard people talk about how that may have some of the way the Russians think about like border integrity and how the fact, you know, invaders from the east, things being invaded and things like that, a lot of that stems from the fact that they were just devastated by many of these invasions.
>> I think Fukuyama made that argument.
Yeah. that it's like the tartar yolk is is a thing that affects the Russian consciousness, but I've seen other people say, "Ah, no, I don't think so."
I think it's it's just an excuse basically. So, but I don't know.
>> Well, whatever version of it, this movie didn't capture it.
>> This movie doesn't capture all kinds of things.
>> But talk about this dance sequence when they go to meet Wang Khan and his really cool assistant, >> his awesome shaman.
>> Shaman Shaman.
Uh, so there's a goofy dance sequence that happens with women in bikinis with what look like, you know, >> potato curls on.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
Curly fries on their heads. Uh, and a woman with feathers on her fingers. You were talking about everything everywhere all at once with the hot dog fingers.
>> Oh my god, what a weird movie. That was a That was a 100% an airplane movie.
I watched that movie on an airplane.
>> But you liked it though, right? Multiple airplanes, too, right?
>> It was actually multiple airplanes. It was fine. It wasn't horrible. James Hong is in it, which is always a good thing.
>> Yeah, he's awesome. He's awesome.
Michelle Yo, I like her a lot.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But it was um it was, you know, it was weird. Um but yes, they say they're from Samarand, the dancers.
>> You can really tell looking at her, too.
>> Yeah. You see them and you think, "God, I think Central Asia."
>> I think Usbekistan, I think. Yeah. Uh >> I think Kyrgystan a little bit more, you know, but that's just me.
>> Just, you know, a touch of Kier, >> but um but yeah, this dance stuff. So, I kind of want to talk about epic cinema of the 50s in that >> with these epic movies, it allowed filmmakers to do racy, risque, sexy stuff that they normally wouldn't be able to do in a movie because they could stand back and say, "Hey, buddy, it's history. All right, we're we're we're just telling history right here. We're not trying to >> This is school.
>> This is Yeah, I'm just recounting what really happened here.
>> This is definitely what really happened.
>> So, you know, you've got like Oh, this movie about ancient Egypt. So, you have these scantily clad women in bikinis, which, you know, that's totally >> Yeah, >> that's definitely how they did it back then.
>> Or like biblical movies like The Robe and Ben, you know, this sort of thing.
You could have like a dance sequence to show, oh, how how terrible those Romans are. Oh gosh, the people in the audience definitely don't like anything about this.
>> This is moral. This is a moral lesson number one. This is not what you want.
>> This is just so bad. Oh, tat. Oh no.
>> But yeah, so this is uh and they do some some wacky dancing. There's scarves involved like a dance of the seven veils salame style. Uh, and I got to say, Salameé and her consequences have been a disaster for Epic Cinema, cuz there is just so many dances in all of these damn movies that go on forever.
>> They love a good throne room scene.
Yeah. Epic movies, cuz that's like the Ten Commandments with um, Ule Brinter.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Uh, I know it's not 50s, but Cleopatra, it's kind of close.
>> Oh my god, we had to watch that in Latin class. What a disaster.
What a true disaster that movie is. My god. Richard Burton of Wild Geese fame.
>> Yeah, almost wild geese, too.
>> Oh gosh, if only. Oh dear. But yeah.
Wow. So, so Tartar Woman aka Bortai is invited to dance for everyone. So, she gets a sword out and does very odd dance moves with it that almost seems like she's trying to stab herself.
>> Yeah, that's what it kind of looks like.
I don't know what the heck's going on there. Um, >> many people in the audience might have thought the same thing as they're watching this.
>> What am I watching? What the hell is this?
>> Or also, could they stab themselves while they're at it, too?
>> Get a complimentary sword from the the theater or attendant.
>> That's right. I'll have a I'll have a sixgallon drum of popcorn and your sharpest sword, please.
And at the end of the dance sequence, Bortai tosses the sword towards Wong Khan and um she's gets imprisoned for it or something.
>> Yeah, she throws it at at I think she's trying to hit um Timujin.
>> Timujin. I know. The names are just I cannot Jesus. Oh god.
>> The names are just oh dear.
>> So but and then he Yeah. So, she gets imprisoned. And then also, while this is all happening, talk about Wang Khan's assistant.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. In the dance scene, you see the assistant eating and it almost looks like he's eating fried chicken.
>> You think it's maybe bread, but it's very weird.
>> Yeah. I'd like to think it's chicken nuggets or chicken tenders or something.
>> Yum.
>> Also, they they dismiss everyone with a gong sound. There's a ton of gongs in this movie. My goodness.
>> Towards the end. God, they love a good gong.
>> Gong heavy at the end.
>> They do.
>> And the the So, the assistant eventually he says, "I want to do a divination to try to see the future." And he we call him the assistant, the Shawman, we should say. The Shawan wants to do a divination.
>> He's going to burn a lamb shoulder bone or something.
>> That's what they said. Yeah. And he does a magic spell and it's just the goofiest thing. He says, "Eny eeny meenie shaka chi."
I see they really did their their homework on that one. Got got a Mongolian linguist in here.
Sim.
>> They really got their cula really really narrowed down. Ali Ali oxenfree open sesame and then as they're heading back um to Mongol territory >> the Tarters led by Kum Kumlick Kumlick >> Kumlech the father of Bortai >> Bortai ambushes them.
>> Yeah.
>> Lee Van Clee gets killed. Damn.
>> So sad. I love uh >> John John Wayne gets shot >> whatever his name was. Yes, John Wayne gets shot.
>> Oh, is it Sha Von? Oh, it sound like Siobhan.
>> Chab. That's >> Chab. Well, who who the [ __ ] cares? It's Lee Vanclee.
>> Leave Ankle Cleaf. Yes. Uh it is sad that he's out of the movie cuz he's awesome.
>> And then John Wayne manages to escape and crawl into a soundstage cave. That very authentic dirt. This the dirt is the dirt is really on display during that scene. It's just gorgeous.
Beautiful. I couldn't It's probably a full star in the rating is is thanks to that dirt right there.
and he's he's wounded and his blood brother >> Jamuka >> Jamuga comes in and I don't know he tells Jamuga to go scout around and Jamuga gets captured and then Jamuka >> no it's no he goes and they get on horses and he and Jamuga are going to escape but then the Tarters attack but Jamuga escapes back and he thinks he sees Jamuga see him and then leave and then he gets captured and then he gets taken to comeick or whatever his name.
>> Yeah. Klick. Yeah.
>> Uh it just just And there's so many people getting captured and then traded and then >> and then >> and then he gets lashed to a yoke.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So So Genghask uh >> Genghaskhan gets >> Timigjin. Timigan gets >> Oh, we can call him Genghaskhan. Oh, >> eventually he will become Genghis. So >> the Chingis >> Ching Yeah.
>> Ching Khan.
>> Universal ruler.
>> The universal ruler. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So he's lashed to a yoke and uh he's forced to to walk in front of the oxen and he gets he gets whipped. So it's like the passion of Genghaskhan is now happening right now.
Mel Gibson says, "Wait, wait, wait.
That's my favorite part, the whipping.
Something that you could have seen back at the Holyland experience."
>> And when get ready for the 3:00 crucifixion.
>> Oh no. Don't forget to go to the gift shop afterwards, >> followed by the fireworks display and and horse riding pony rides. Um, and and uh, Timigjent is then taken back to the Tartar camp where he meets Kumlick, the the leader and >> who poisoned his father.
>> Who poisoned his father? Yes. And >> use a guy.
>> Not tart a guy. Use a guy.
>> Use a guy. [ __ ] >> sake. Use a guy. He's a guy. She's a guy. Who's a guy? I don't know.
>> Use >> use guys. Um, so uh, Timigjin is taken before Klick and Kamlick asks him, uh, how do you want to die, Mongol? And he says, the slow way.
Thus, I request the slow death.
>> Which is kind of what this movie is.
really is speaking speak putting words to truth. John the slow death and uh so he requests the slow death and as they're taking uh John Wayne away >> to watch this movie in a theater.
>> Take him to Detroit. No. As he's being taken away, he says, "For while I have fingers to grasp a sword, your head is not safe on your shoulders or your daughter in her bed."
>> Wow.
>> What?
>> What a hero. What a heroic quote.
>> Truly, this is one of history's greatest heroes right here.
>> There's also a bear.
>> There's a bear. Yeah, they're having like a a hoot nanny. A hoown is happening.
>> It's sort of like what's the difference between a hoot nanny and a hoown?
>> Still haven't figured it out yet.
>> It's a real a a philosophical debate. Uh Komaik's uh necklace looks like a watch chain. I wrote that down. Uh and when Genghis is tied to a post at night, he uh uses his yoke to knock a guy out. And it's like the three stooges and he's >> might as well have the you know the curly >> curly especially. Yeah. The great curly.
Yes.
And then Bortai comes and she wants to free him.
>> Why? I guess he just write he just threatened >> he made a he made a very serious threat against her just a few minutes ago just a few hours ago. And now >> I don't think that people who who wrote this movie understand how human beings interact with each other.
>> Completely bizarre.
>> And then he So he So Kumlick and his friends come they're going to bring the bearer to come I guess torture John Wayne. Oh, that's what was going on.
Okay, now it all makes sense. All right.
>> And then and then he has escaped into the nearby bushes like 5t away. They don't seem to notice.
>> Where on earth could he have gone? And they all run in every direction except the bushes.
>> And while he's escaping, he um he hilariously throws a spear into >> We laugh so hard. We That spear throw is just beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous.
And you can clear if you slow it, if you look it, you can clearly see the wire the spear is traveling on. It's very funny.
And then he goes back to his yurt village, rallies the people, and they're going to go after Wang. They're going to go to Wang Khan to see if Wang Khan will ally with him. But first, he sends Oh, gee. He sends Jamuga and then uh Metal Bendy Brother. Uh yeah, >> I didn't even bother to figure out what his name was.
>> I'll call him Carac.
>> Carac. They send those two there. And then >> we see the city of >> Urgga.
>> Urg. Yeah. We see the city of Urgga and the king uh Wong Khan is in a >> Wang. Wang Khan, sorry, that's what they call him. He's bathing. So he's out.
It looks very silly. He gets up and they in large shirtless muscle men towel him off.
>> No, no, the men don't. They they sit by the door. Women come to towel him off.
Oh, sure.
>> And they're having a conversation and >> the Jamuga and other guy come and they're talking with him and they say, "Well, should we not have this conversation around these people?" When an assistant shaman goes, "Oh, no. They had their tongues cut out. No worries.
Thanks." Okay. Wow. Um and then so he they they end up getting this plot is so bad they >> it really got bad towards the end.
>> Car Carac and Jamuga are imprisoned.
>> Yes. Shaman tells Wang Khan to imprison them.
>> Yes. And the only speaking Asian character shows up. Richard Louu. He's a captain of the guards who says probably 10 lines in the whole movie. But >> 10 words.
>> 10 words. Yeah. 10 lines >> is more like it. But they're imprisoned in this little room. Nightfalls, they escape. They bend the bars. It's like poetry. It rhymes. He bends the bar at the beginning of the movie and he bends the bar >> and Jamuga gets out, but he's too fat, the other guy, and he gets stabbed to death.
>> Poor Carac. Yeah, he's very sad when he died. But yes, Jamuga escapes and he goes back to the Mongol camp. And then Shaman comes and he and and I guess >> John Wayne has rallied the other Mongol chieftains there. There's something. And then >> yeah, he has an emotional Lion King scene where he goes out on a cliff and says, >> "Oh, God, >> father."
>> Yes.
>> May the heavens eat me in my quest.
Give me, man.
What the [ __ ] was happening?
>> Shouting to the heavens demanding men.
>> Compare that to the Conan the Barbarian, you know, Crom, I call upon you. I've never prayed to you before. And this garbage right here couldn't be more different.
>> Oh, sublime.
>> That's absolutely sub. We We were just in awe of the beseeching the heavens scene.
And then Shaman comes and then he says, "Oh, I can infiltrate you into the city." So they let him and John Wayne and some other people >> into the gate. And they just rudely just stab the people as they come through the gate. Um and then and then Shaman runs off and then he stabs Wang Khan and then John Wayne comes in and Wang Khan says, "You know, don't trust Shyaman. He was going to betray you." And then John Wayne goes to confront Shaman who throws a knife at him and then John Wayne kills him >> off screen.
>> Off screen. And then he I guess Wang Khan's generals acknowledge him as their leader. And then they're going to go fight the Tartars >> to go get Bortai, >> right? Bortai.
>> There's some more gongs. There's a lot of gongs.
>> Many gongs are gonged in in the course of the final battle of this movie. So yeah, it's the epic conflict between Mongols and Tartars.
And which which side is which is not clear at any moment while watching it because they all dress the same.
>> The Tarters have the dark uniforms and then the Mongols have the lighter uniforms, but it's still very hard to follow. They have a giant battle where they all uh they have they charge at each other. Um also Susan Hayward's eyebrows are crazy.
>> Yeah. Yeah. They're like they're like >> like going off into space. Whoop. Um and then so they defeat the Tartars. John Wayne kills Kumlick. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And then Jamuga.
>> Jamuga. So it's afterwards he basically John Wayne wants to forgive him. He's like, "Okay, Jamuga, thank you for all you've done." And >> because throughout all the movie they keep teasing that Jamuga is going to betray >> John Wayne. John Wayne does. And he doesn't. But John Wayne many times thinks he has. And Jamuga is so devastated by the fact that John Wayne lost confidence in him that he wants John Wayne to kill him.
And John Wayne's like, "No, please. I don't want to." But I guess he does it anyway.
>> Yeah. He says, "No, no, no." He's like, "Oh, okay. Well, >> don't at least not be blood be spilled or something is what he says." Also, at one point, John Wayne says to Susan Hayward, "You are beautiful in your wrath." I thought that was funny.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And oh, Jamuga calls him Genghask Khan. So, one of the last lines of the movie is, "Finally, he's Genghaskhan."
>> And then he's going to go and conquer the world.
>> Truly the universal ruler. I mean, look at all he conquered in this movie.
>> Incredible.
>> Good taste. Um, some putsy tribes somewhere in the Gobi Desert, which by the way, like the where they shot, like there's mountains and hills and stuff like the Gobi Desert is not as that mountainous as the American Southwest.
>> I looked up a bunch of pictures and it looks Well, it doesn't look like this.
I'll tell you that.
>> Very arid.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Arid, but not like red.
>> Yeah. Red and mountains and all that other stuff.
>> Uh, >> yeah. What a >> what a film. My goodness.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we laughed pretty hard at many parts in this film. There was a lot that I'm really glad we watched it. Finally, we know what this film actually is.
>> Uh so many baffling choices.
>> It's not that It's just not that good of a movie. I mean, it is funny. Yes, it is fun to watch, but like it actually it's it's confusing. And but this movie was not critically successful when it was made, but it actually made a fair bit of money.
>> That's right. Yeah. I think I think Wikipedia said something like I think it said $11 million, which is pretty good except for the fact that it was what five or $6 million. So >> yeah.
>> Well, and you know this is the height of John Wayne's popularity the 40s50s like the I mean this was like the peak of westerns cuz like westerns kind of fall off 60 starting in the 60s but really in the 70s like you know the 1950s like that's everyone wanted to make a western cuz they were cheap and people loved them. I mean also like all we talked about I think in the fly the fight the flying CBS. Oh my goodness.
>> The flying be necks.
the uh the in the fighting CBS about how like because they were they were cheap and people loved westerns so a lot of poverty row studios everyone a lot of the earliest TV shows were westerns this is I guess supposed to be a western I don't know good lord >> I think they were kind of trying to do that yeah >> because basically you could slap John Wayne in a cowboy hat and and make money in in a movie in the 50s >> exactly and it was the heyday of the classical western and once you get to the 70s it's mostly revisionist western Outlaw Josie Wales.
>> Yeah.
>> Then later you get >> High Planes Drifter.
>> High Planes Drifter. Then you later get um Unforgiven.
>> Unforgiven. Yeah. Yeah. Um >> A Million Ways to Die in the West.
>> Oh god.
>> Blazing Saddles.
>> Wagons East. The classics. Yeah.
>> City Slickers.
>> City Slickers 2. The Legend of Curly's Gold.
Uh The Great Jack Palance.
>> Yeah, this movie is it is very funny. I mean, it is worth watching if you like a good laugh, but it is somewhat interminable at times.
>> Yeah, it's not high on the list of most enjoyable films to watch that are not good.
>> I'm glad we w because it is I mean, this movie is I mean, you see the pictures.
There's a very always is like the same picture of John Wayne at the beginning talking to Susan Hayward like he's on a horse and she's in her, you know, >> bed, this bed that she's being carried around in. Um, >> yeah. Uh, I I would say watching this video is definitely a substitute for actually watching the movie. Uh, but you can do it if you want. I mean, it it still is pretty funny.
>> Just you really got to hear John Wayne deliver some of these lines. It's just it's incredible.
>> He just he was just not >> John Wayne could play one character, >> right, >> which is himself.
>> And well, and the other thing, too, is that you can get a good movie out of him. You can get a good performance out of him. You just have to play to his strength. The Searchers, which came out just a couple months apart from this one, >> which is And The Searchers is like you ask like every major director, what's a movie that inspired you? It's like Steven Spielberg and all these other big act directors. They always say The Searchers.
>> And it's funny that like John Wayne's worst movie. Well, maybe his worst movie.
>> I don't know. There was a lot of stinkers out there. We've got a few.
What else? What other ones do we have?
Jet Pilot.
>> Jet Pilot. That's >> the Flying uh the the Tigers. Flying Tigers.
>> But also the Flying Leatherneck if we wanted to. Yeah. I don't know if The Green Berets is a bad movie, but it's >> Oh, yes, of course. That was one of the first ones we talked about. It's gotten pushed farther back in the queue.
>> Yeah.
>> But, >> but like all great British people, you just have to wait in the queue.
>> Or Mick Q. That was a John Wayne movie.
>> Mick Q.
>> Yeah, Mick Q is the name of it. I've only seen the post.
>> Oh, no. It was a Big Jim something.
That's a movie.
>> Big Jim Mlan.
>> That's what we're going to We were going to watch that one, too.
>> Oh, boy. That's like That's not a western. It's not a western, but he's a Huacak investigator in Hawaii trying to find communists inside of labor organizations.
>> That great hero, Joe McCarthy. What an American icon.
>> He uh he filmed a John Wayne filmed a cigarette ad on the set of Big Jim Mlan.
You can see it on YouTube. He's like, "Ah, I'm here on set and I love a nice cool smoke." And he starts smoking and you know, they show a scene from the movie during the ad.
No. Yeah, he's he's good fodder for a lot of these.
>> Yeah, he's good fodder. He's kind of easy to make fun of because he's a little bit of a onenote performance, but he can do good movies. He really can. He There are very good John Wayne movies out there.
>> The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.
>> Yeah, that's an excellent excellent film, but you know, when you do something like >> This is not playing to the Duke's strengths.
>> No. When you do something like he must have done almost 200 movies, >> uh you're going to get bad ones in there, and this is definitely one of them.
This is Well, it's just such a Even at the time, people talked about what a miscast. I mean, my god.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Didn't they want Marlon Brando or someone like that originally for it?
>> That's what I read. Yeah. They wrote the script intended for Marlon Brando, which that would have been crazy. Also, they were so impressed by his performance in Viva Sapata, where he plays Emiliano Zapata. Uh that that could be an interesting film to do at some point in the future. Yeah, that's the one that has that great you used for the Banana Wars for it's a guy who looks exactly like Pfiurio Diaz.
He's like, I'm going to step down. No, actually I' I've decided I'm going to run in this election.
>> We looked that guy up. He married his own niece, Pilio Diaz.
>> Can you believe that?
>> Yikes.
>> The president, your leader. Oh my god. That's just beyond the pale. That's that's that's too far, buddy.
>> Yeah, we should add Viva Zapato. Not.
>> Oh jeez. And just uh this movie is a real Howard Hughes touchstone of his career.
>> Obviously. My god.
>> I really want to learn more about this guy cuz I I just have a fascination with just this person who >> he's that character out of a movie. I mean >> just it's like this is what happened when eccentricity has money behind it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And like the will the will to power combined with ungodly amounts of money >> beyond good and evil.
>> Well, you know, because when you think about like and maybe partially it's because the money was inherited because you think about a lot of people who've like earned like a lot of people who've become very rich like Bill Gates like he doesn't do weird Bill Gates isn't like I'm going to produce western films now.
I'm going to I mean I guess you could argue like the the Jeff Bezos I'm going to shoot myself into the sky in the dick rocket is like kind of a version of this. Um but >> or any of the things Elon Musk does.
>> Yeah. I'm going to vacuum us between cities. The bull remember that was like his plan. He's going to >> or or the the the rocket with the car on it. I mean that stuff's kind of wacky.
>> Exactly. But this is like a more pure version I mean of it because I think that because then you also get people who are super rich like Bernard Arno who's like off some he's the owner of the LV is it LVMH group. He's like he has been the richest man in the world and some is he's he's usually like in the top three these days but he's been the richest man at times. So it owns all these like luxury BL brands. It's this holding company that owns like all these super high-end companies and has investments all over the place. But like you never hear about this guy. He doesn't, you know, Bernard Arno doesn't say, "I've decided to build the world's largest plane. I'm going to buy Airbus and and make a triple decker triplane jet to fly people on. I've decided I'm going to produce decided I'm going to become a movie producer and I'm I'm going to put my my weirdest fantasies on the on screen for millions of people to watch." You just don't get people like that every all the time because a lot of people who've built up their businesses over the time are probably too busy try like Warren Buffett isn't Mr. buffet isn't it's not like I'm gonna I'm going to become governor of Nebraska, you know, I've decided, you know, or something, you know, you don't you just don't see someone do something like that, throw away money like that.
>> Well, I mean, to be not beholden to anyone else, to be beholden to a board of directors, to be personally so wealthy and not have any strings attached to you, to basically just be able to do what whatever the heck you want. Uh it's just >> maybe it's a lesson what happens if you have like unlimited authority and unlimited money and people will just >> you know >> we we all need limits on ourselves. You know if we did whatever we wanted all the time we would have terrible lives. I think we got to go to work every day. We got to mow the lawn. We got to do the things that we have to do.
>> That's right.
>> Uh lead the raid on the tartars, you know, fight the Oh god, I for memix. I forgot their name. I've >> minim Chemicks. Oh, for [ __ ] >> sake. Mech Mech Mech. Uh >> Chem is it >> Cam Cam Loops.
>> Wow. They they really they really It shows how well this movie stuck.
>> The brain rot in in watching this film.
>> Whatever. Who we said it earlier, those people. That shows you how how confusing this movie is. I'm trying to think, but all I can see is Lee Van Cleiff's cool abs. That's That's what's sticking out of my mind right now. I know. I like the panther, too. Yeah.
>> Yeah. The bear. The bear was pretty cool.
>> Shaman.
>> Shyaman and his squinty eyes.
>> He also attempts a Chinese like he tries to talk in the stereot stereotypical like Asian talk.
>> He is the only one who does the Asian accent. Yeah.
>> Everyone else, for good or ill, speaks completely normally. Yeah.
>> Uh except they speak backwards and in circles and in the third person and just as confusing as possible. The the writer of this movie, they talked about it in the book. They asked him, "Can you write a a a movie about the Mongols?" And he consulted the Encyclopedia Britannica for about 10 minutes and got back with him on the phone and said, "Yeah, I think I can do that." Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
I mean, oh jeez. It really shows in the movie.
>> Oh god. Wow. What a what a film. What an what an icon of the movie making industry. It >> really is.
>> So, >> oh boy.
>> Well, uh, this is Matt signing off.
>> And this is Max signing off.
>> Have a good day, guys.
>> Would two lonely hunters dare challenge a market force under Chief Tarotai himself?
Such humbleness sits illong and Totai is not deceived. But I seek no dispute.
This journey is an occasion of joy. I am taking for myself a third wife. A tarter woman timid.
>> I better lie. Dance >> dance. Tarter woman dance.
know this woman. I take you for a wife.
>> She's a woman, Jamuga.
Much woman.
Should her perity be less than that of other women?
A woman of Samuran. I recognize her by the uh >> There are no finer dancers under the heavens.
>> Mina Mina ni ni shaki >> you do well Kumlick for while I have fingers to grasp a sword and eyes to see your treacherous head is not safe on your shoulders nor your daughter in her bed. The way I said >> eternal skies, yes, my father, hear me.
Summon the spirits of heaven to my aid.
Send me men.
Men.
This day I have long awaited.
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