Deception in marriage often stems from taking a spouse's sins personally, which causes offense and positions one to fail in their God-given role of supporting and submitting to their partner. Many men unknowingly build their identity around performance, success, and self-reliance, which creates a false sense of security while slowly drifting from God's design. The enemy exploits isolation by preventing men from building community, which is essential for accountability, exposure of lies, and spiritual growth. True restoration begins when individuals surrender their plans, identity, and expectations to Christ, recognizing that their marriage is a relationship to be stewarded rather than their identity. Healthy community provides the accountability needed to break free from deception, while isolation allows pride and unhealthy patterns to thrive unchecked.
From Deception to Restoration | Restored Wives | Host Desiree McVicker
Added:There is such a true intentionality [music] to destroy your bloodline.
And it's [music] in knowing that now I've gained such a deep respect for my husband because I used to take his sins personal.
>> And that's where the enemy wants us is to take your spouse's [music] sins personal so that you sit in offense so that you you get out of position. So if I'm constantly in offense [music] because of his struggles, his sin, I cannot do what I was designed to do, which is help him, to support him, which is submit to him, [music] right?
>> And that's where the enemy wants us.
>> Hello. We are [music] back here on Restored Wives and I'm so excited because we have husbands at the table today.
>> Yeah.
>> Welcome >> to the table, fellas.
>> Glad to be here. We've had both of your wives >> at the table, different shows, different um episodes, but super excited to have you here.
>> Yeah.
>> Introduce yourselves, how you got connected.
>> So, my name is Derek U leader of Restored Husbands. Um I got connected because my wife is in Restored Wives >> and um I just loved what the Lord was doing in her uh through you. And so I decided, hey, I need to I need to I need to get some of this. And so here we are.
get some.
>> Yeah, get some of this. I like that.
Yeah.
>> Uh yeah, my name is Dimmitri. Um really it was just God. I mean things opened up. I say this all the time. You guys had child care.
>> Yes.
>> And uh where we can have um our kids in one place and we can actually focus um and be present. Uh we're in another group that was that was awesome, but we're the only ones with kids. And so it took away a lot of our attention. And so when this thing opened up, uh my wife moved from the digital format of Restored Wives to in person. Um and then I knew Derek and um I think I invited one dude and we pulled up and the rest is history. So uh not been very long but very fruitful.
>> Okay. So both of your wives are in Restored Wives in person, virtual, now in person.
>> [clears throat] >> And what I love, not just from you both, but other fellas in the group are like, I'm here because I saw fruit in my wife.
>> Yep.
>> Can we talk a little bit about that?
>> Yeah. I mean, I would say uh and you know, Deji said all the time, uh fruit is undeniable.
And I know for our marriage, you walk through some pretty hard seasons, but I just noticed uh I remember when my wife said she was going to this Restore Wives thing on Tuesday nights. I think it was it was on Thursday, I think, at the time. When whatever it was, it was No, it was on Tuesday. And uh she was like, "Hey, I need you to I need you to just like be home and take care of the thing, and I'm going to go do my thing." It's like, "Cool, go do your thing." And um after one meeting, I just started noticing that she started showing up a little differently at home. And it was small little things >> um that she was doing, but it caught my attention. And then I started saying, "Well, what is this?
>> Whatever this is, like I need you to keep going because I just I just I just she just showed up differently and it caused me to show up differently >> because of what she was doing." And then so yeah, I mean, like I said, I just after seeing what it was doing in her, I said, I it's not just about her, it's about me. I need to focus on myself.
There's something I need to I need to surrender. I need to grow in. And I said, "Hey, it's time for me to to step up and lead and and go do what I need, you know, go do what I need to go do."
So, >> I love that.
>> Yeah.
Because truly it speaks to the authority of a wife, right? I my tattoo big on my back scripture would be 1 Peter 3 wonders.
>> And it literally speaks to the authority of a wife and her her ability to draw her husband to Christ without a word.
>> And so truly trusting that in her submission to you, >> it has done a thing within your home.
And then you're seeing the fruit of that which is doing a thing. So like this stuff is real.
>> Yeah.
How did like I know that you have a similar like similar sentiments about you saw fruing your wife. What does what did that look like?
>> I mean we're we're being real on the pod >> all day. Real raw.
>> Real on the pod. I like that. Yeah.
>> Real on the pod. Um well um initially I think she just wanted to get into something seeing restored wives. I think that my wife and I at this point when she when she joined we're in a good place um there uh there was a lot of chaos and anarchy and um disruption from me in the past which I think that we um had recovered from. And so when she said I'm in restored wives I was like but I thought you were already a restored wife right? Um, and so, uh, initially I was like, "Okay, well, as long as it's serving you." And I had laid down a lot of yeses and chose a lot of nos so I could be at home and give her the ability, right, coming out of the season of grief and things like that that that she had been through, that we had been through as a family.
>> Um, so anything that she went to, I was like, "Run, do it. Enjoy. Get what you need." Um and uh the fruit show my wife and I um we we're on minute to minute. There's not really always a lot of time to decompress and connect. And so um when whenever we do it's um it's more about you know how was your day, how was the family and the kids and things like that and kind of uh business related. But uh there was one time that uh she told me she was like she told a story uh about how um women are supposed to submit not only themselves but their bodies to their husband, right?
>> Um and we're talking sexually, right?
That got my attention.
>> I was like, "What' they say?" [laughter] >> Oh, that we walked through and restored lives.
>> I was like, "Let me record you."
[laughter] >> I lean.
you woke up, right?
>> We go to all the places.
>> What [laughter] are we talking about?
So, I started to lean in and I was like, "Okay, tell me more." And so, she just was saying that um that yeah, man, that sex is a weapon. Um and it should be used uh to draw your husband closer. And um and I was like, um, okay, you need to keep going this route. I didn't even know that it was that fruitful where it would actually bless us in that way. Um and and and just begin to see just the power of of of intimacy in marriage and teaching my wife that um >> and her teaching me that.
>> And I sat back and I was like, "Yo, this is amazing."
>> Yeah.
>> And so that was the first time I seen fruit that I could actually pull off the tree and bite. You know what I'm saying?
>> I like it.
>> We know what you're saying.
>> Good stuff. That was good stuff.
>> So, um so after that, I uh I knew it was powerful. created space, bathe the kids, all the things. And then again, um, as soon as there was an opportunity to open up, I know Derek, >> um, I know the men that are leading, and I was like, >> let's go.
>> I love that.
>> Yeah. Let me add something. So, you talked about, uh, the scripture that you would that you you you always say, what is it? Stand 10 toes down on >> stand 10 toes down. First Peter.
>> It's interesting. So, my wife, she never asked me to join. She never said, I need you to do this. Uh she mentioned >> it was happening, >> but she never said like, "You need to join." She was just like, "Hey, we're we're doing this thing."
>> And I was like, you know, we I've been in I've been in church for a long time.
We have tons of men's group men's groups, but nothing like >> what I thought I would experience.
>> Um and I'm just so thankful that it wasn't like a pressure thing like this is something that you need to come to or that we need to do together. She was like, "Hey, they're offering this.
>> I'm going to do my thing."
>> And she never even told me what day it was on. She never said, she just said, "This is what they're doing."
>> Um, and the Lord just impressed upon me like, "You need to go do this." And so, I'm just I'm just happy that it was, you know, again, going back to your scripture without a word. I mean, >> there was there was no urging, no prompting, no uh, you know, there was no carrot dangled. What if you do this, I'll do that. It was just like, hey, >> this is what's going on.
>> That's good.
>> And she left it at that.
>> And and and there's something about that sales pitch, right, >> where it's >> I'm not selling at this point. I'm sharing with you. I'm sharing. And so, you know, the best experience is a bot experience. And so, with their time and experience, they were able to kind of showcase that >> and curiosity there. But the fact that we weren't prompted, we weren't told or you need to get right.
>> It just made I I'm not I'm not We always speak in generalities or we us. I'm going to say me.
>> Yeah.
>> Um that drew me into wanting to see it cuz I was like, >> let me go see what's shaking over there.
Yeah. You know, so that was that's a very good point, bro.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think we're told that we're wrong all the time. [laughter] >> Yeah. We're we're always told that, right? Uh even in like church, it's like, "Oh, you're wrong." You know, it's always you're doing something wrong.
That that thing. So for like I know you're talking so for our wives not to necessarily say you need to go because you're wrong or you're doing something wrong. Just mention it.
>> Plant the seed >> and here we are.
>> I love And what's driving that is that these two beautiful women that you're married to have walked oh so heavily through how to surrender.
>> And that piece of it is why they weren't driven to like manipulate or control a situation or do a thing right when >> uh they both have opened up that that in the past those were struggles.
>> Yeah. And so, um, >> surrender is >> something that we progressively walk through daily and it shows up in these ways of where, oh, I wasn't forced to do a thing or with and her understanding her identity in Christ >> and the authority that she has because of the of Christ in her >> allows her to stand 10 toes down on first Peter and understand without a word just through my posture, my respect, my submission to my husband, it's going to do a thing in my home. M.
>> So to hear that like you all are experiencing fruit of that.
>> Yeah.
>> It's like innocent bystander fruit.
>> You know what I'm saying? Third party.
You know that bullet wasn't meant for you. Stray bullet fruit.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.
>> I love it. You know, >> bring men to the table. You're going to hear about bullets and guns.
>> We're in Texas.
>> Did you say [laughter] all that? You say all the time like let let God be God.
>> Yes. And I think when we do and sometimes I mean we can we can all be guilty of trying to try to manipulate situations and make things happen.
>> But when we just when we say the truth and let God be God and let him do his thing, it always works out better.
>> Oh man.
>> Always does.
>> I like that.
>> Release that pressure.
>> Yeah. Say the truth.
>> Say the truth.
>> The truth though now. Yeah. Come on.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's good stuff.
>> Stand on that.
>> Yeah.
>> And they're constantly challenged as are are you all right in in James 1:22. be doers of the word, not hearers only deceiving yourself.
>> So like we can know these things, but for them to actually >> walk it out in their homes, walk it out in their marriages, and then to see the fruit for them also deepens their faith >> as they walk. And so >> I commend you both for your Yes.
>> leading, joining.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> First week we were like, "All right, uh, can you jump on this panel on stage at this podcast launch, Demetri?" And you're just constantly >> That was wild. make yourself.
>> It was strong though.
>> I mean, it was good. It was so good.
Yeah. I thought it was >> again, I thought it was Holy Spirit led and >> I didn't feel like I'm trying. I didn't stri I didn't feel like I was striving, you know, >> trying to deliver a word. I was just like obedient, you know. So, thank you for the opportunity to be able >> Thank you both. Such great feedback. And after that happened, the Lord was like, "Okay, yeah, bring them to the table."
And I'm like, "Huh?" Say what?
>> We don't have a logo. [laughter] Okay. Yeah.
>> And just >> this conversation is going to impact nations.
>> Mhm.
>> It's going to shift bloodlines.
>> Let's go.
>> And I know that from the warfare experience because of your yes to today.
>> The command of how the Lord has had me sit with him differently for this conversation up until today. I can only fathom what's going to come of allowing the Holy Spirit to do his thing here.
>> Come on.
>> With that said, I want to get into talking about the identity crisis, the deception that not just men, us as wives in different areas of our lives, in different seasons have walked through. I know for me this is my second marriage >> and I looking back there was a certain level of deception that I had there was a certain level of deception that I chose to operate in to make me feel that what I was doing was justified >> the divorce >> my divorce >> I deserve >> these are the you know all of the things >> I'll never see the change I'll never be able to trust I'll like And looking back, I was so deceived into believing what I wanted because it satisfied my flesh, >> man.
>> And so to be and and fully looking back, I I truly believed everything in my world at that time.
>> Like every all of my thoughts, all of my feelings. I was being guided by my emotions.
>> And the lies now that we know they're lies because now we know their truth. We know truth. So now we know how to discern a lie. Looking back, it's like, >> who was that?
>> Yeah.
>> Like, how did she get to that space mentally, mindset, heart posture-wise?
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz one thing that we're talking um about in the gathering is that we can convince ourselves that our hard posture is hard towards another person and we're justified in that, but we have a soft heart towards God.
>> Yeah.
>> But you only have one heart.
And so we will outwardly pray like, "Oh, well Lord, soften his heart or soften my heart towards this person, but that heart posture is between you and God.
Everyone else is just a recipient of your heart posture between you and God."
>> Wow.
>> And to know that my heart was so hardened towards God.
>> Wow.
>> And that's the only way that you operate in certain um areas of sin is because you have to literally harden your heart in a way that resists and rebels the Lord's instruction.
And so in now knowing that I know all of this stuff, it's it it was so easy for me back then to be like, well, he did this thing, my ex-husband. And so I am justified in getting a divorce because of what he did.
>> Yeah.
>> Versus leaning into forgiveness, leaning into love, leaning into all of the truths, right, that we know now. It's sometimes I just sit back and now I under I can understand the level of deception and empathize for those that are walking through being bound being deceiving in a deceived way because I was there.
>> Talk to me a little bit about the most deceived place you've ever been.
and what that looked like.
>> The most deceived place I've ever been is um sex, money, power, >> SMPP. I mean, I think this was something that was instilled in me as a as a young teenager. Um and that's how I was raised and brought up. Um and it governed my whole life. I live from high to high, you know.
um and extremely deceived. Um I was the type of dude I was like, um yeah, we already have a kid. We live together.
What's the point of getting married? And it wasn't even a a spiritual covering thing cuz I wasn't saved at the time. It was more like, yeah, it's in the way of building a business and it's going to be a distraction. Like, we'll worry about that down the line. [clears throat] and not even understanding like it's causing um anxiety in my wife because she knows that there's a back door.
>> Um and so just deceived just not knowing the word. Um not having any uh accountability or community that would call me up. Um I was the best of of my team and I thought I had a good moral compass >> and so I was extremely deceived. I was in the world um for for a very long time. Um and uh that deception led me to um leaving my family um back in 2022.
Uh I just walked away and uh I just lived the life I wanted to live. We moved here from Cali. I was like, I'm going to take care of all the bills, but I'm going to go do me.
>> [clears throat] >> And um at the height of deception um this is what you want. You deserve this. You didn't cheat. You walked away.
>> Um that was the biggest deception. Like okay, I didn't cheat. I left.
I'm a man. I'm a man for that.
>> You know, not not even looking at man co-parenting.
>> Yeah. um potential remarry other kids.
Now she's leaving them to be with me. I want to be with my brothers and sisters.
I didn't never play the tape forward. Um and so um man to the point of I was ready to take my own life.
>> Um because when you listen when you create a bed that when you have to lay in a bed that you've created >> Yeah. There's no one to blame but >> but me, right? And so um this a horrible place to be. And um and all that deception and all that stress, anxiety, um self-pity, um regret, you know, it eats at you.
>> And so I'd much rather have been dead >> than to um And that's how the enemy works.
>> Yes. the perversion, the deception, the buying, you know, buying my subscribing to my own BS >> and isolation.
And now I don't have any resources. I don't have any people that can speak into me because um it's confirmation bias. I could just continue to do what I want to do. Um and anyway, that finally led me to um getting saved. M >> so the deception I like I mentioned it just it started as a young in and carried all the way into my mid30s.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I would say um the lack of honesty with me. So uh I've heard before you know you can lie to other people >> can't lie to yourself. Can't lie to God.
>> Uh you know what the real truth is. A lot of times people don't know what the real truth is and for me it was >> because this is my second marriage. So highlighting what someone else did as justification sort of like what you said to divorce but not looking at my contribution to it.
>> Um and what happens is when you don't do that >> you fail to address the areas that you need to address. So, you just bring all that stuff >> that you did not deal with in that relationship to this relationship.
>> And so, um, you know, you talked about, you know, buying your own BS that you're selling. I mean, it's, >> hey, I'm I'm good. I'm perfect. I'm justified. You know, look at what this person did to me.
>> Blah blah blah blah blah.
>> But not really taking full accountability for what I did >> and who I was.
>> Yeah. and the, you know, the stuff that I brought to the table. Um, and really looking in the mirror and saying, would I want to be with somebody who's like me, >> man? Come on.
>> So, the deception was, you're perfect, you're great, you go to church, you give, you serve, you are a great guy.
And if you're if you're not careful, you'll start to listen to that from other people.
>> That'll and that will puff you up, too.
Mhm.
>> And then and then you start to get them on your side.
>> So So So now we're building a whole army of people who are just doing nothing but puffing you up.
>> Uhuh. And it's it's pride and it's all that stuff, right? So that was my deception, not really dealing with who I was, who I am, >> right?
>> The issues that I need to fix.
>> Wow.
>> And that just it just followed me. Those very same issues. There were no new issues. It was the same stuff.
>> Same data.
>> Same data.
>> Wow.
>> Same stuff. Follow me this next time.
And if you don't deal with it, right, it's just gonna continue to follow you.
>> And I just I just want to affirm you, man, like that actualization, the realization where you actually have that wakeup call.
>> Um, >> you have two choices, right? Like, man, I could do something about this.
>> Ah, I'll change the channel.
>> Yeah. just go back to that programming and and and personally I I know that you can be a very galvanizing person.
>> So when you said I brought people on my team and they were yesing me like yo that's a dangerous place to be.
>> Yeah.
>> And um I appreciate you sharing that man. That's that's uh that gave me some revelation. That's powerful.
>> Oh I can I can build a team.
>> We all can.
>> I can I can build a team. And the danger is building a team to take somebody else down.
>> Yeah. M >> and or to keep you in a place.
>> There it is.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Because that's that's really what we do.
The people that are co-signing, they don't know you.
>> Yeah.
>> And I stand behind that. The same work that the Lord wanted to do within within me in my first marriage, followed me to my second marriage. And it's in his graciousness that he allows those things to happen >> because he wants us reconciled back to him.
>> So he's like, "Okay, now you're faced with a choice. So, you going to keep running? Are we going to be on third, fourth, fifth marriages, or you going to turn around and do the work?
>> Whoa.
>> And here we are, restored husbands, restored wives, right? And such a deep respect for my husband now.
>> Um because truly, you know, Romans 8:28, all things work together for the good for those who love the Lord, who are called according to his purpose.
>> A lot of times we'll say that scripture and like trying to encourage people, but in truly understanding it's for his good. It's for his purpose, not mine.
And through turning back and doing the work, I realized that men are attacked very differently than women.
The identity crisis that happens in deception with us all looks different for husbands and wives.
Talk to me a little bit about what did that identity crisis in that deception look like for you?
Well, um, and I'm I'm I'm talking about some previous circumstances here, but there's a lot of comparison. We have to be really, and I'm look, I am not the social media basher. Uh, that's not me.
But we have to be very careful because sometimes we will look at what somebody else is doing >> and say, "Okay, their family is further ahead. They are further ahead. Their money is further ahead.
>> Blank is further ahead.
>> Well, what am I not doing >> to to get there?"
>> Wow.
>> And then we'll start to cheat to try to get there, >> right? or, you know, we will start to do things that we shouldn't be doing to get us to a place where we feel like we need to be because of something else that we saw, right? And it it could be someone that we idolize a good person.
I'm not necessarily saying they're a bad person, but >> for me, >> it's it's making sure that I am okay with who God has called me to be.
>> And that may look different than what he has called you to be.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And we are we are truly a body.
So we're all needed >> and he's given us all different gifts.
But if we're not careful, we'll start to idolize or really look at what somebody else what he's gifted somebody else to do or what space he's given them and saying, "Oh, well, I should have that too." Well, let me start to do some things so I can get there.
>> And then that's when the problems start because you're operating outside of his will.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Can we pause?
>> Yeah. that making sure that you are okay with who God has called you to be >> not who you want to be.
>> Yep.
>> Which in a world that tells you focus on self.
>> Yep.
>> Your wants, your desires, your plan, your timelines, >> that's huge.
>> That's that if you were to follow me, Jesus said you were to deny yourself, right? Die, all of that, >> pick up that cross daily >> and follow me.
That's huge. If we even just did that, >> how much it would solve, how the perspective shift being okay with who God has called you to be versus who the world is telling you you need to be versus who you want to be.
>> People live and die never understanding that concept.
>> Yeah. And I think I think it's hard especially for men because most of us are ambitious like we have it in us to to want to conquer a hill to want to go >> build a business to want to go build do and build and do and that's >> that's good but is it healthy ambition right and is it God so >> so for those of us that are are are smart guy right so it's like making sure that we actually submit this plan that we've come up with our head to God >> like >> that part Man, >> I like I I think this is you, God, but I want to Let me run this by you cuz this may just be me in my own head.
>> That's like what we were talking about in Psalms.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. 100%. It all be in vain.
>> All of it.
>> All be made. What was it? Psalms 127.
>> Five chapters or five verses you said. I was like, "Yeah, I wrote that down."
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I got to read it. It was just so good.
>> Bring that up. [laughter] >> Yeah. That's blueprint.
>> Was it 127? That's uh schematics. Before you build anything, we should check with the the architect.
>> Okay. So, it says Psalms 127:1, "Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain."
>> Yeah.
>> Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. It is in vain that you rise up early and go to late and go late to rest, eating the bread of anxious toil, for he gives to his beloved sleep. uh >> like >> everything you think you're doing and that was me too, right? Like build a business, create this brand, like all of these things completely out of alignment with the Lord's will.
>> And I I let me enter. It could be something good.
>> It could be something good.
>> That's the tough thing. It could be something and and as men, it's like, okay, take care of your family. Do you know these are all good things, but it's like you're toiling for no reason.
>> Your self that selfish ambition >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. will lead you down a road and you get there and you're just like, "How did I get so far off?"
>> Yeah.
>> It's that heart posture.
>> Yeah.
>> It's that resistance and rebellion >> that gets us down a road where then, and this is how the enemy works cuz he's so cunning.
>> Rolls out rolls out the red carpet, pursues self. I deserve, I can justify all of these things.
>> And it feels great. And then when you are so bound in that sin, spiritually sick to a place where you are operating in deception that is impacting others to where you can't even see yourself.
>> Yep.
>> Then he you start to see yourself and then he weighs you down with shame and guilt and all of the things. So it's like come out and play and then I'm going to shift this thing on you.
>> Next thing you know, >> and that's how he works.
>> Where's Demetri and Derek?
>> What happened to their family?
>> Yeah. Um, so going back to what you said, the identity crisis, right? Um, man, as a man, you you mentioned it, ambition, success, protection, provision, these are all >> well, protection and provision are good things, right? Uh, that I believe a man should provide.
>> Sure.
>> Um, and so the identity was performance.
>> Yeah. I'mma perform.
If it's got to be, it's up to me. I'mma bet on me. [clears throat] >> Um, you live in America. Go get yours.
Right. It's the land of milk and honey.
Go take it. Um, as long as it's legal, ethical, and moral. [laughter] >> Yeah.
>> I can go make a million. I can go do all the things. And I can go set my family up for success and change generational all the things. Um, when I think about that, the performance. Um, yeah. Okay. Look, babe. I know we're beefing right now, but >> I'm just go bury myself in work >> because hey, listen.
I'm not out in these streets.
Um, I'm I'm building our business. I'm I'm working.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Um 8 10 hours go by, got stuff done, but my family's all the more worse.
>> And so it's like, and then here comes the the deception of, you know, this false propping of like, don't they see I'm working hard?
>> I pay all the bills in here.
>> Um what do you do now? The scorekeeping with my own wife, >> what do you do? Like, >> okay, I Okay, I'm dealing with all different walks of life. you have the kids, it can't be that hard. And if my wife leaves me alone for 4 hours or more with those kids [laughter] when you coming home, yo, this is crazy. This is so hard. [laughter] >> I love you. Massage your feet. Whatever you need.
>> Oh my god. Um and so just sitting in those seats, allowing my wife in this season to go, right? and and and just to get um around people and in community.
>> Um I've been able to sit in those seats and it's like, man, this is way harder than any business. Yeah.
>> This is way harder than >> chargeback sales, moving people. And so anyway, the the uh the identity crisis was performance. But here's what I've learned and this is a testimony for somebody is that the more I worked hard and strived and pushed and and all the things like man it I felt like I was doing something I was like that guy in the blocks >> just trying to get out the blocks. Man, I had a little bit of effort, but when I started to rest and surrender and really take that thing serious, all of a sudden, this supernatural momentum and multiplication began to happen in our business, and I'm just sitting back like, man, I'm not even working that hard. I feel like I got I got to do some more.
>> I feel bad now. Like, and so anyway, that was >> and always has been such a um identity crisis >> for sure is the striving and the performance, >> you know. Yeah. Let me let me add something here. So, I just thought about this, but also uh another deception is it's all on me.
>> Yeah. Oh, boy. Right. Because that's what we're taught. You're the man. You got to do >> if the if something happens, it's on you. You got to fix it.
>> You got to you you got to you got to you gota >> and then it becomes like a weight.
It's all on me.
>> Right. And and I I I want to I want to help some husband. It is not >> right.
>> It is not. Um so so your so your wife and her kids who God has blessed you with >> Yep.
>> they actually belong to him.
>> So so is actually his responsibility now. He will use you as a vessel. Yeah.
>> Right. But he's the ultim he's the ultimate source.
And so when we free ourselves of that, then that can it can alleviate a weight.
At least that's been on me in the past is okay, if I don't make it, >> if the credit score is not X, if I don't have this amount of money in the bank, if I haven't built the business to this, like, well, then I failed because I'm failing my family. And it's like, okay, well, have you submitted these things to God?
>> Right.
>> Right. Because again, he's the source.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And he's also going to give you whether it's an idea or whatever, he's gonna provide those things to you to get you to where he wants you to be, not to where you think you need to be.
>> Yeah.
>> And >> from a wife's perspective, >> a wife now that's in Christ, >> we were created out of a divine need.
There was to be a helpmate. Mhm.
>> And so anytime we are not able to do the thing that we were created to do where there's resistance and push back of like no I got it I got it. We >> Oh wow.
>> We are like I don't know how to do the do the thing I was def designed to do >> and >> convicted.
>> Okay. Now when I say now in Christ, right? Because we all have had a journey.
We have to as wise be careful because our tongues are sharper than any >> double-edged sword, right? Sharp as a double-edged sword.
>> And so in understanding this world is lying to us.
>> Yeah.
>> There's this false perception and pursuit of the soft life and this happiness and I should be in Dubai on a clear canoe and all. [laughter] >> We didn't even know where Dubai was on the map until it came Instagram thing.
It's an understanding that that is that is a lie in this life. We were created to help.
>> Yeah.
>> You were created to cultivate us, right?
So a woman is a multiplier. You give us a house, we make it a home. You give us sperm, we'll make a baby. Like we are multipliers, right?
>> But the world has shifted the role. So now you have wives that are like, I should be, you should be doing this. I should be able to have this life. And so you're beating the person that you should be helping. And then so on then once you get to a place where of like okay well now I understand my role and my charge as a wife your man is like but you've you've done the opposite for so long and now I don't trust >> Yeah. Oh man.
>> And being there and then like Right. And so it's now it's like but now he won't let me do my role and he's like well you weren't trying to do your role before you know and so you go through this thing of like >> identity crisis.
>> Everybody everybody >> bro Let me let me tell you something. I and my wife who will watch this will tell you she tried to help me and I would not let her.
>> I wouldn't let her. She tried like I'll never forget like early on in the marriage she would she would you know and it she would just drop little hey you know you need me to do X or maybe we should do Y with your business or you know maybe we should do this like oh I got it. Sound counsel. Oh I got it.
Don't worry about it. Oh I got it. I got it. So so the other side of that is like let her be your helping. Let her do what she was created to do.
>> Yeah, man.
>> She is not Let's go ruffle some feathers. She does not exist >> to make you sandwiches and have sex with. That is not the only like >> come on.
>> That is part of the job description. Not the only That is not the only That is not the only. And so >> like she's, >> you know, and that's that's going to mess with a lot of people's view of of of of roles, but that's she's to be a help. So let her help you, you know. of course come correct with the help >> and let her help you.
>> In order to be helped though, >> a man has to be >> forthcoming and vulnerable and honest and and and not carry everything as well.
>> Uh a friend of mine >> um >> man, a friend of mine >> said, "Bro, she's your rib."
>> I was like, "Write that down."
>> Yeah.
>> And he goes um he goes, "You guys are one. You can't" And and again, the scorekeeping, right? um was a big thing and sometimes we still do that, you know, and so it's like whatever she's doing is is building you and whatever you're doing is building her.
>> Yeah.
>> And then he said, >> "What are you doing when she's not watching to build her?"
>> That's good. That's strong.
>> And so that's the that's the that's the honesty and vulnerability we have to have is, you know, let's just say and I'm going to get authentic here and real is what if I what if I slipped and watched something online I'm not supposed to? Yeah. Am I taking that back to my wife and saying, "Babe, I fell here."
>> Yeah.
>> I need you to pray for me. I need you to hold me down.
>> Um or am I bottling that up and never sharing it and now it's coming out sideways or in other ways and now she's battling demons that she wasn't even intended to fight >> alone.
>> Um because we are one flesh. And the same thing is said to be true about my wife. if if she has some anxiety or resentment or bitterness or something like that and and I'm what's going on.
>> Mhm.
>> Talk to me, right? Tell me. And I got it. Okay, bet. Well, then without that transparency and whatnot, um there will be no authentic help. I think that's what James uh 5:16, >> right?
>> And talks about basically um telling your brother and sister the real what's that can come along and support you.
>> Yep. Yep. Um, and so I just want to touch on that, bro.
>> Yeah. No, that's good stuff. Yeah.
>> You know, it's that believing that the Lord cannot hear our thoughts just as clear as he can hear our words.
>> Oh, come on.
>> Because we've all been there, right?
Whether it's thinking the things and like, "Oh, I can control this. No one sees this."
>> That's where the deception is, right there. Um, >> hold on. There's a scripture. I think it's in 1 Corinthians.
Yeah, 1 Corinthians, what is this? 3 20. It says that the Lord knows the thoughts of the wise that they're feudal.
>> So let no one boast in men for all things are yours. And it's like, well, first let me start it. So 1 Corinthians 3:18, it says, "Let no one deceives. Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
And then it talks about the Lord knows the thoughts of the wise and they're feudal. So we are convinced into thinking that like just because it's not coming out of my mouth >> just because no one else sees it >> that it can go unchecked.
>> When the L when the Lord searches our hearts, what does he find? Right? And that's why it's so important to make sure that we are storing up this word, storing up truth in our hearts because whatever's in our heart is going to expose itself eventually. It's just a time of time and place, right? And so in knowing that what I just said about like we're deceived into thinking the Lord doesn't know our thoughts just as much as he can hear our words. walk me through some of those places, those thoughts where you're just like, I got this.
>> Yeah. I think um so one of the things I I I really railed against when we first uh cuz when we got married, I was like, we got we need to find a church for us.
And then there was this, oh, let's join this marriage connect group. And I was like, "Ah, I won't do that."
Because in real community where, you know, it can be recreational, but in real community, that's where things get exposed >> because the wives become friends, the husbands become friends, and we're all going to each other asking for help. I need prayer for X, Y, and Z. And that's where things start to get exposed. M >> and so um it's what the enemy was trying to do was saying stay don't get in community because when you get in community that's when people will find out who you really are and that you guys really struggle with because again you know we all look so polished and and nice on the outside.
You you said it earlier people don't really know who we are. They don't know the struggles our our spouses do, >> right?
>> But people that are watching us right now they they don't they don't know who we are, right? They don't really know who we are. But when you're not in community, that's when you can that's where you can act the fool and the deception is high, right? So for me, it was I don't and you know, I used to I used to hate marriage counseling.
>> I hated talking to people. I don't want people to My big thing is I don't want people to know our business.
>> No be in our business, right?
>> I don't want them to be like I don't like why >> I don't want to open up to people.
>> Why why do they have to know that? Why why do they need what they gonna just going to tell somebody else, right?
Right.
>> It's the enemy. the enemy because even Jesus himself had had had a community.
He surrounded himself with people that he was authentic with.
>> Uh even look in a garden, he was authentic with them people. So community is so important for me. It was >> let's just go in our little bubble after church. Let's go home >> and we'll fight >> behind closed doors and nobody will know, right? Um and that's when things started to blow up for us was >> dude. Wow.
>> Was the isolation.
>> That's good.
>> Yeah.
>> An isolated Christian is a >> What' you say?
>> An isolated Christian is a dead Christian. A dead Christian.
>> Say that again. An isolated Christian is a dead Christian.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> Wow.
>> We were meant for community.
>> Um and I'll tell you the um >> it's funny. I thought of something. I thought it was pretty hilarious. is like, "What if you're in a group, everyone's being authentic and vulnerable, and you just be that one that one time you got too authentic and vulnerable." Oh, group's up, and you're the last one to share.
>> Well, wait, I can't. Let me explain.
Right. Um, >> I love those moments.
>> Yeah, >> I love those moments where we can be authentic and real. And oftentimes, my wife's stomping my foot like, Right. And so I think um I don't I don't really I think that everything in my life can be um obviously with context it can be [clears throat] learned from and taught from um because I'm willing to be coached and talked to. Um and so I think that that's uh >> something that we've grown in. But I'd say if we would go back to um the things that the proclivities are the things I try to um hide um manh the self-crafted curated image of um I'm a selfless I'm selfless >> I'm selfless. Uh let me give you an example.
>> [clears throat] >> Man, I'm doing this for my family.
I'm I'm I'm I'm not around my kids as much as I like to. I'm working hard for the family. If I do this for the next three to four, five years, man, this my ticket off the island. Then we could go, >> no, bro. You're doing this for you.
>> Yeah, >> you're doing this for you. Um >> there's a trauma obviously that I'm trying to run from of, you know, different things that happened as a kid.
I never want to be broke or poor, lights cut off or anything like that. Um, but if I don't if if I'm dealing with that today because if I don't deal with that, it'll pop up as and it'll be just so just um it's almost insidious, right? the way it creeps in left unchecked, left unconfessed, left >> um um unauthentic with my heavenly father, you know, and so those are the thing that is the thing for me >> is I'm not selfish, >> right? In actuality, a lot of the things I do and how I move >> can be very selfish. I think we all deal with in a sense and I think the freedom in community is learning that I am not by myself. You say it all the time. We take attacks so personally.
>> Oh man.
>> And it's like I look in a room and I'm like, "Oh, you you got that too. You struggling with that too."
>> Okay. It could be in in varying degrees >> or from varying, you know, different experiences, but it's all kind of centered around the same thing. So it's like, wow. like we can support each other, we can help each other, we can be there for each other, we can pray for each other, we can give resources >> uh uh to each other like actual real >> and yes, prayer is a resource, but there like there are things that that have worked for you in this area that I'm struggling in and you can tell me >> I've been two steps up the road. That's it.
>> You can Yep. Yep. [clears throat] Yep.
Hand the baton to me and let me let me try what you did. Right, >> man. That's what community brings, >> dude. Yes.
>> Because uh we we all deal with generally the same thing, I think, as men.
>> Yep.
>> In varying degrees, >> we we we struggle with the same thing.
So, it's just it's it's knocking down that wall of shame and feeling isolated and feeling alone because it's like >> you're not the only one.
>> No. Yeah.
>> No. It's like >> I have a question for you.
>> Is that okay?
>> Absolutely.
>> Come on. Let's let's fire. Real on the pod.
>> Keep it real on the pod. Why do you feel that men in community is so much stronger than women in community?
>> Why do you feel like for instance, and I know because I hear my wife, but like men in community, it's deadly >> in a good way, right? Because I mean the dudes just have this thing where it's like >> I got you, bro.
>> Yeah.
>> It's all good.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, and it's kind of like there's this there's this energy where one dude cries, one dude say like we come around that guy, right? Um I've been in rooms where I'm like the woman's crying, nobody's coming to her. They're just like [laughter] and so is this I don't know what is the disconnect there where men in community is is prevalent is strong.
We're doing our 6 a.m. workouts. We're eating in the morning all the things and then we see women just and I want to say this is a bad word but caddyy or like selective or they over there I'm not gonna be like why do you feel that is why you feel there's such a big disconnect between men and women in community? I don't believe that there is a disconnect in men and women in community. I believe that there is a difference in what that looks like and that's because of the motivation.
And so with restored wives, with restored husbands, >> we're very intentional. We will never be a marriage group.
>> Yeah.
>> Restored wives meets in one building, restored husbands meets in another. And there's purpose for that because when you're sitting next to the person that you're married to, you're not concentrated on you, you're concentrated on them. Right. Yeah.
>> I've been in marriage counseling with my husband.
>> We've gone through like four or five therapists and it's like every time >> I'm looking at how is he responding?
What is he going to say?
>> We were subscribed homework. Did he do it? You don't care. All of the like none of the work is here, right?
>> And so >> men and women in community look different. The restored wives community is so strong because of the level of commitment to that community, the level of commitment to yourself and showing up. Now the not psyching yourself out the generalization in society is that women can click and get catty and do all of the things and that exposes an identity crisis if you don't know who you are. So you believe you have to keep up a facade to do a thing within a group to portray a certain person.
>> Yeah.
>> Men also battle with that. Right. So this is a humanity issue. The thing is men in community looks different in strength because y'all are the head.
When a man is submitted to Christ, when a man is falling in order and in alignment with who God has called him to be as a husband, the house will stand.
>> It be running, >> man.
>> Yeah. Zipping. And we can >> all cylinders [laughter] >> when you're the head, right? Which is why you're attacked so differently.
>> And there is such a true intentionality >> to destroy your bloodline.
>> And it's in knowing that now I've gained such a deep respect for my husband because I used to take his sins personal.
And that's where the enemy wants us is to take your spouse's sins personal so that you sit in a fence. So then you you get out of position. So if I'm constantly in offense because of his struggles, his sin, I cannot do what I was designed to do, which is help him, to support him, which is submit to him.
Right?
>> And that's where the enemy wants us. On the flip side, a man that is taking his wife's sins personally and or does not have the wife in position the women are going to come from my head for this, but when you're not when your wife is out of alignment and out of position with who God has called her to be, that affects you.
>> Wow.
>> And so, not displacing responsibility on a husband.
>> Sure.
>> Speaking from a place as a wife. So when I'm out of position, I can no longer be who God has called me to be in my husband's life. And we will all we all want to show up, right, as as wives of like, oh, I can help do the tangible things. I can cook. I can help you build. I can all but where are the wives that will war for their husband's minds?
>> Because that is where the battlefield is.
We want to tap out when it gets to struggling with pornography, struggling with addiction, struggling with depression, struggle, right? That's where we want to tap out.
>> Married the wrong one, >> right? [laughter] >> That's where the the the mind goes because the enemy is making sure that you see your wife as an enemy, >> that you're taking her sins personal. And when I say sins, that's the little to the big, right? I'm not talking about like in society we want to amplify infidelity and amplify addictions, but being out of alignment, being in disobedience >> is a sin.
>> Yeah. So when you are out of position, your wife is out of position, whatever that looks like, the way that she's loving you, the way that she's weaponizing sex, the whatever fill in the blank, you begin to take that personal.
>> And then you begin to look, okay, enemy like the deception I deserve you. Like she's not who can support me. She's not the right. And so that's where we get so blinded and you start to then it's crazy. Hold on y'all. There's a scripture that's like pounding in my head.
>> Got to let it out.
>> That I literally just read last night and I was just like, "Wait, what?"
>> Hold on.
>> Okay. So, it's it's James 1:14 through15. It says, "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire."
>> Yeah.
>> Then desire when it's conceived gives birth to sin.
>> Yep. And then sin when it's fully grown brings forth death. Right. So it's it's a process. It's not just a >> right.
>> It's those compro small small compromises to lead that lead to the big death. Right.
>> Yep. Yep.
>> And so it's in understanding that's the deception of the enemy of I am justified in moving the way that I want to because someone else is not doing what they are called to.
>> Yep.
>> Right.
from the little to the big, from infidelity to the I'm going to just zone out and go to work, eat, go to sleep, like not be the man who God has called me to be, not be the woman who God has called me to be, right?
>> Yeah.
>> But we got to get real like all of those things. Disobedience is a sin. Yeah.
>> Regardless of how justified you feel in your disobedience, >> it's a sin. And so going back to your your question, men in community wages war in the kingdom of darkness in a way that nothing else will.
>> Come on. Wow.
>> That is why the attack is so heavy for the head.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. If we were in war, which we are in a very real spiritual war daily. We were in a physical war.
>> Pop them in his head.
>> We're not worried about the peons in the front. Like we know we're going to take them out. There's a crew that's headed for the >> general.
>> That's you take out the general, you've won the war.
>> Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Y'all are the generals.
>> And so this is where we have to get very real with understanding. It is so difficult and it looks so wild for men to be in community, especially disciples of Christ community because there's so many walls that the enemy has put up.
>> Yeah.
that most men have not that most men are not in a place in their identity.
>> Most men do not understand their identity in Christ which will not allow them to enter into these doors and show up in a way even if they're not fully confident in who they are in Christ yet.
But there's so many walls. You don't need this. Yeah.
>> What can they tell you? What can somebody that's not in your situation tell you about your wife? You live with her. Like all of the the the lies, right?
>> It's huge. It's very major. Very true.
>> And women are naturally nurturers. We naturally live in community. And it's easier for us to seek help because we were designed to help.
>> So we understand the language of help >> whether we do it right or wrong. We understand that's our language, right?
Which is why we leave y'all with our kids and then we come back home at 4:00, they're probably still in pajamas, right? It's like we were designed to nurture and to do those things very simply. And >> as you all were designed to be providers and cultivators, right? The uncheckedness on both sides is when we're not in alignment with doing it God's way.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is why you can have someone, right? The word tells us, "What is it for a man to gain the world and to lose his soul?"
>> You, y'all can naturally do a thing.
>> But at what cost?
>> We can naturally do a thing, >> but at what cost?
>> And so that's where that's why the strength in men is just so different.
And I know again so many women are going to come for me. But you were called to submit to Christ as we were called to submit to Christ. But we are called to submit to you. There's order. The Lord has >> laid out the order.
>> The problem is we're resistant to his order because of pride >> because of selfish ambition and because of who the world has told us we're supposed to be.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> A submitted wife is not a weak wife.
>> Yeah.
>> A submitted man to Christ is not a weak man. Mhm.
>> There's order and there when you are under the Lord's authority, the level of protection and provision attached to that is something you will never be able to give yourself on your own.
>> Yeah.
>> Both sides.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good.
where in that identity crisis when you're looking back at your life I know for me like there are certain periods where I was like I was completely deceived or there I was on my way to that level of deception in your worst level of deception that state of mind what were what was the enemy telling you and how what made it okay daily for you to live in that space because it's a mindset thing Okay. What mind that deceived mindset? What made living there okay? What did you tell yourself daily to make what you were doing justified?
>> My satisfaction was was uh my satisfaction was what was most important.
>> What I wanted was was was most important. Didn't matter who it affected. didn't matter how long I was gone, you know, from doing stuff, uh, what time I arrived at home. Like, it did none of that mattered. It's all about what I want to do, [laughter] you know, because I had good reasons, right, >> to do. So, it was it was it's so funny.
Um, you know, even even if you if you go back to Genesis and you look at, you know, what happened in the garden, it's all it's all disguised and good. The way that the enemy comes at you, >> he comes at you with this shiny, oh, this is good, right?
>> Well, it's not it's not bad.
>> Yeah. It and it it it never it never comes out that way. It's always like, oh, it's a it's an innocent coworker or it's a whatever.
>> It's a perversion.
>> It's it's always this good thing, right?
So for me it was, well, I'm doing good.
You said it earlier. I don't want to steal it, but I'm doing good. Um, and it doesn't matter who it affects or what you say. I'm going to do my thing because this is what I want to do. This is what I feel is best. Never consulting >> God in any of it.
>> But it was, well, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a man.
>> I'm providing.
>> Yeah, bro.
>> I'm serving.
>> Yes.
>> This is ministry.
>> Oh, like one of the biggest >> deceptions God is okay with you saying with you pulling back and saying, "I'm not going to do X because I want to I want to go serve my family." He's completely fine with that.
I use the ministry >> as a way of saying, "Let me check out >> and be gone."
>> And I used the job and a career and dollars and all of this, >> but it was it was all selfish.
But what I kept hearing was, "Well, Derek, it's fine. It's good.
>> These are all good reasons."
>> Yeah.
>> You know, you're not presenting any anything wrong. Nothing's wrong with it.
Well, it was it was all wrong.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh so, I mean, that was it for me.
>> Dang.
>> Let's talk about good things aren't always God things.
>> Yep. Yeah.
>> And morality doesn't equal righteousness.
>> And and leaning on the Holy Spirit, understanding the Holy Spirit's timing >> and understanding when you're supposed to be doing certain things. There are certain seasons where it's like, okay, this is not for you in this season.
>> Stop going slow.
>> It's a good thing. It's just not a God thing.
>> Okay, so let's talk about the things that aren't good things, >> but feel good.
>> Oh, man.
>> I mean I mean >> because like we all day with that one.
>> We uh can we, you know, we're not crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> The flesh is strong.
>> Sure.
>> It's fast >> every day. Yeah.
>> And so even if I'm not doing okay, I'm not doing a good thing, but it feels good.
Right?
>> How did you get to the place where you are killing your flesh? Right? That denying yourself, picking up that cross daily, that's a killing your flesh, dying to yourself daily in your deepest deception. What were the lies that were fueling you that kept you operating in submitting to your flesh because it felt good even though you know it wasn't good?
>> I mean, nobody will find out.
It's your secret.
You're, you know, you're you're doing all the things to keep it hidden.
>> You're striving so much to keep it hidden. She won't find out. They won't find out.
It's all good for me, right?
>> That's good.
>> Um, which of course never ever happens.
>> It It always gets exposed.
>> We always know.
>> They always know, right? They always know. Uh, and it's funny, sometimes they know, but they don't know. But they know.
>> They they they may not know the thing.
>> You said a lot, right?
>> But they know.
>> Yeah, >> they know. They can they can they can sense.
>> I'm I'm going way off. When When you've become one, >> there is no way you can be going through something and she not feel it.
>> Facts.
>> She may not 100% know what the but she knows it's something off. I I feel it in her spirit >> cuz you're one.
>> Y >> you're one. So there's there's if you you know if you cut off if if you cut off one side like the other side's going to know like you're it's one body. Yes.
Right. This is not two complete separate entities. It's one body. So >> for me it's like oh well if I don't say anything and if I hide it right >> man she ain't going to know anything about it. It's like she knows.
>> The enem is crafty that way.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um just wanting to feel good.
all the time. Um, >> and okay, I feel like we're like dancing around the rim.
>> What was it saying?
>> Let's go to Yeah, let's go to the places.
>> Yeah, >> because there's husbands that are listening that are like, >> "What are you saying?
>> What?" Yeah. What are we talking about?
All right. I got you. I got you.
>> Let's go deep. So, um, always at least known who God was and would feel, um, remorse, uh, uh, regret when I would do things like sleep with women, uh, watch porn and masturbate, um, do drugs, um, party. And I'm talking about party, um, and I'm talking about friends, I'll give you an example. It's again it was that from high to high.
>> The high to high was the enemy would say you deserve to feel you deserve to experience this because your life as a child and as a young adult was robbed.
You didn't have time to experience. Mhm.
>> I took care of my brothers, my mom, single mom, raised three boys, and uh I I did I you can't go to my city and not you and Dimmitri was down for his family >> until I was 25.
Um and then once everybody was in college and my mom was set up, just went on a bender.
I just did me, right? And so I would say 10 years um almost 10 years of just doing whatever I wanted to do. If that was um multiple women in a week, that's what it was.
>> Yeah.
>> If it was again like name the experience, I'm there.
>> And so because I was exper I was I was so caught up in what are we doing this weekend? what am I doing from day to day? I never the the the the the sweet sin was um I'm just going to feel good and never processed all that back there.
None of those emotions, none of the things that happened to you. Um and I ran from myself and uh I'll give you an I never forget when God was like, "Why do you why are you spending all your time?" It was as clear as day. I was sitting at the house.
My friends didn't come over. There wasn't anything to do that night. And I was just by myself. I was like, I could either play PlayStation. Um, I could watch this online or I could drink. And I was just numbing out, just numbing, right? Never wanting to feel. And God was like, "Man, you don't have a women problem.
You don't have a drug problem. You don't have an alcohol problem. You have a problem with yourself.
And until you actually sit with yourself and you find me, this is going to continue to perpetuate in your life.
>> And um I heard him as clear as day. And that and that was the beginning of me actually coming back to Christ for real.
>> Wow.
>> Right. So I would say that that was how the enemy Yeah. He's lure me with fun. I think about like Pinocchio >> when those kids went and they all became donkeys like they went to that fun land and they all died as donkeys because they were just smoke. They were doing the things that was my life for forever >> until I actually looked within and found Christ and found my source.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I think with me um so when I first when we first got married second time um I I had an issue with sharing >> simple things like phone passcode, >> you know, location, bank account. That was the huge thing for me. M >> and I would, you know, say things like, "Well, like what do you what do you need that for?"
>> Like, "What? Like, do you not trust me?"
All the while knowing, this is crazy. All the while knowing I was doing things.
And And that's why we want to hide it because we're doing things that we don't want our spouse to know about.
Big, small, doesn't matter.
>> There are things we don't want them to know about.
>> Yeah. There's a there's a that we want to cover something up. So, we'll say, "Hey, let me not give you my like what do you need my passcode for on my phone?
You don't trust me?"
>> Manipulation.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Flipping of like you're insecure. Like putting the insecurities >> putting it back on them when it's really >> projecting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Exactly.
>> So, so, so we struggle we struggled through that for a long time.
>> Um, now obviously I was doing that for a reason, >> right? Come on.
>> Because nobody if if if there's no reason for you not to do it. I know it's bad English, but you just give it up. No big deal. Here you go. You know, >> cop pulls you over to say, "Can I see your license?" Sure. Here you go.
>> I don't have any warrants.
>> Yeah.
>> Hopefully I know. Right. So, here you go. You can see it. It's It's right there. Phone's right there. Right. And and and I used to do things like I don't want my phone to be out because I don't want her to go pick it up >> because I don't want her to see that relationship. Right.
>> And and and here's and let me let me go there. And it's not even necessarily a physical cheating. It could just be >> it's an emotional.
>> It's an emotional affair. It could be somebody that you're talking to that you just should not be talking to. You're a married person. You just shouldn't be you just shouldn't be chatting with with you know whoever all the time. What are you chatting about? Right?
>> What are y'all talking about?
>> Right?
>> Like what for this this is supposed to be your best friend. This this woman that you married your wife that should be your best friend. Why are you telling this other person something that you haven't told your wife? Right? So it's all those things. It's it's it's the deception. It's the it's the let me hide.
>> Let me put my phone away. Let me let me let me let me make it to where it only unlocks when my face is, you know, it's all of that. It's all No, I'm serious.
It's it's it's um Okay, we have two separate bank accounts. Why do like What do you need to say in my bank account?
>> What do you need? Do you need some money? Let me send you some money.
>> Dang.
>> Why do you Why do you need to look at like why do you need access to my account? Do you not trust me? Do you not trust that I'm making money? Do you not trust if I have something I wouldn't give it to you? Again, it's the it's the projection.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So, it was all of those things.
It was the social media stuff. It was And I was definitely living way too loose at the time.
>> Yeah.
>> Way too loose. Way too loose. Had way too many female friends. Had way too many people I was talking to. Again, a lot of it.
And here here's here's the trick of the enemy. What the enemy will say was, what the enemy will say is, well, what you're doing technically isn't wrong >> because you guys aren't really talking about anything bad or that person has never said they liked you or you've never told them that you were interested in them, right? But that's how it that's how it all starts.
The enemy is so crafty. He puts this little bitty thing out there and it turns into something much bigger. Right.
So for So for us, it was just the initial >> Yeah.
>> Hey, you we're going to be married, but my life, my social media, my phone, my all of that's all. You can have everything else.
>> How many men struggle with that?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Where they this is mine, this is yours, for better or for worse, but this is my side. You stay over there. I'm going to give you everything you need. This is mine.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. But but we have to be real and ask well why like why am I saying that?
>> Yeah. 100%. You you are not sharing all of you and it's not true intimacy and um and I mean >> I I got to live an old lifestyle.
>> I I won't share this name, but I'm pretty good friends with this uh with this pastor and he told me he says, "I'm very rarely alone." um they're at a very large church and so there's ton of women there. So he says I'm very rarely alone without my wife.
She only stands with me or she's around or I'm around somebody else.
He said he said she knows what I like.
She knows what I think is attractive and she will actually come to me and say I know you saw that checking. I know you saw >> that's how the relationship started. Now he He he he can freely admit things to her as as he should. I know this is kind of controversial. He can freely admit saw this.
I'm struggling with this.
This came up.
>> Mhm.
>> But there's there's there's so much um intimacy and freedom. Like I'm sorry, intimacy and in in being free and being honest. We think of intimacy as really just physical and it's not. It's not just that it is we are literally being bare vulnerable with each other.
>> Now we have to create environments where that's welcomed >> and a lot of times we have not. So that's something we got to surrender.
>> And and hearing you the intimacy that they have is because of the intimacy they individually have with Christ.
Because when you are not in a place where you have deepened your relationship with God, idolatry typically enters the picture.
>> And so everything your husband or your wife is doing is making or breaking you, whether that's their sins or the great things, right? And so you don't get to that place of intimacy in a marriage without individual >> relationships that have true intimacy with Christ because only there there's no one in this planet that calls themsself a Christian, a true disciple for Christ that can sit in a place with the husband or their wife and they can talk about things like what you've mentioned >> and not take it personal. Yeah.
>> If they do not know their identity in Christ. That's right.
>> Because what ends up happening is everything you do or don't do because I of idolatry and I'm in >> I'm in a place where I don't even know I'm idolizing you.
>> I take it personal.
>> Yep.
>> So if I find out you're addicted to porn, if I find out you're talking to other women, all of these things then now say everything about me because I don't know who I am because who I am is who you are.
>> You say things like I'm not enough, >> right?
>> Why is he talking to somebody else?
>> What am I not doing right? Like all of >> I don't look I don't look whatever. Yes.
Yes. Yes. But yes, >> so it's also why restored husbands, restored wives, this ministry is built the way that it is because if we are not made whole in Christ, >> Sure.
>> Right. David, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want, translates to, the Lord is my source, therefore I want to nothing. If you do not understand that your marriage is nothing more than a relationship to be stewarded, >> it is not your identity, >> you will never get to a place like that.
>> Yeah.
>> Therefore, will constantly keep you out of position. I don't know who I'm in Christ. You don't know who you are in Christ. Nine times out of 10 at that al altar we've idolized ourselves. So I need a You hear things men say things like I need a woman to be my peace. I need a man to give me the soft life.
Right. It's like >> both of you are looking for things in a person that only God can give you.
>> Yeah.
>> And peace is not in the absence of trials and tribulations. It's in the midst of.
>> And so you're looking for things always outside >> not just your wife but outside of Christ. Yeah, >> cuz that's right. Husbands and wives, they they just get on the scene. I don't care if you're married for 65 years or you're married for two years. Y'all just got in each other's lives, right?
>> In totality.
>> And so it's I have to deal with me. I have to deal with the lack of intimacy between me and God.
>> Yeah.
>> Always.
>> Always first. And that dictates how we show up in every relationship to a marriage to how you deal with people in the grocery store. Sure. Right.
>> Sure.
>> In those places of deception, right?
We've talked about cheating. We talked about addictions.
How did the enemy turn you away from your wife? How did she did she become the enemy?
Or did she be what did she become in those places where I'm battling these things in this marriage?
I'm deceived into believing these lies.
I'm justified in my behavior because of things I'm allowing myself to believe.
Who was your wife in your eyes, in your heart at that time?
>> Yeah, I could answer this. Uh, my wife became somebody I didn't know anymore.
You don't understand me.
>> Hey, you don't understand me. Um, you're not the woman I used to love. You're not the same. Um, and really I'm wanting her to do gymnastics on me like I'm watching in porn, right?
So, she didn't change. I found another place >> and substituted that and now I want that. Right? I open myself up to those different things with my eye gates or um >> I want her to understand me and hear me, but every time I go to her, she's critical. Now you're like my mom. Right now you turn into my mom rather than my my girlfriend or my wife. Those are the ways that the enemy would pin me against my my wife. um to where now it's we're adversarial.
But you say you want to help me, you want to love me, but why are you coming at me so critical?
>> Yeah.
>> Especially when I was honest like you're not safe. So it would be you're not safe, you're critical, and you're not the woman that I initially fell in love with. And now um now she's looking like an opposition rather than um my you know my rib. And then it becomes easy to start looking around and wanting to do other things. And whether that be an emotional affair, a physical affair, >> um checking out of the relationship, passive aggressiveness, isolation, >> um somehow I just feel like we aren't meant to be together. And he sews that seed of doubt.
>> Um and so all of that, that's how the the enemy work with me. Um, yeah, with my yes and my partnership with what I believe he's doing. Uh, because I'm not taking it to God or the source or even really keeping it real with my wife.
>> Yeah.
>> What did getting to the end of yourself look like? How did you break through that deception? Like how what was your >> Yeah.
Yeah. Just to answer your question question real quick. Um, for me it was exposure. So you told somebody what we're walking through.
>> You're you're trying to make me look bad.
>> You're supposed to be my help meat. You ain't helping me.
>> You're hurting me.
>> Help me.
>> Yeah. Help me.
>> And that's the deception.
>> Yes. Yes. When when So funny. The exposure is actually a blessing.
>> Facts.
>> Yeah.
>> We don't I wasn't looking at it that way. I was looking at you're trying to make me look bad because you told my friends, you told my pastor, you told this, you told that person.
>> You're just trying to get back at me.
You just want to seem perfect >> cuz you're not talking about you talking about me. So, you want to seem perfect.
You want to seem like you're good and you want to throw our business, my business out there. And now I got these people looking at me crazy.
>> Yep. because of what you told what you told them. Right?
>> So, uh that was the answer to your first question. Now, your second one was what again?
>> When you're at the end of your >> When you're at the end of >> So, it's when I realized I could lose a really good thing.
>> What made you realize that though? When did your eyes open?
>> That's good. I [snorts and sighs] I don't really remember the moment, but it's so funny.
>> What the what the enemy does is he tries to make you think that there is better.
There's better out there.
>> Grass is greener. Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> There's better. There's better. There's better. But when I really start to look, not like be with other people, but when I started think about it, I'm like actually really have a good thing. M >> she's actually a really good woman.
She's actually for me. We actually have a great intimate life. Like she's a really good mom. She's And I started thinking on all those things. And I didn't make like a physical chart, all the things. But mentally, I started going down this and I'm like, "Wait a minute. There is somebody who would be really happy to be with her. Why am I not happy to be with her?
I need to I need to I need to start looking at her and seeing her how God sees her. She's an amazing and I hear all her girlfriends talk about this. All her girlfriends, you've said it. She's an She's amazing. And I'm like, why why don't I think that? It's a it's it's a literal change of perception.
>> And stop demonizing your spouse and looking at all the bad stuff that they do because uh you aren't that great either.
>> That part >> you aren't that amazing either. Like you you you got some stuff too.
>> Yeah.
>> Like and and and we we hate to look at ourselves, but it's like bro, you're not perfect. You are not God's gift to women. You are not the perfect husband.
I know we all think we are, but we're not. So, look at the blessing that she is. Look at how amazing she is. Focus on that.
And when I started to see this is a good woman. I do not want to lose as a woman.
I need to get myself together.
>> It was it was a realization >> when I was at the end of myself. I I'll just I'll just touch on that. I mean at the top of the the statement is very real is that again I I make generality and I make it personal because I don't want to be general. I want to be personal. Right.
>> So most men most men wake up right before they lose everything >> when their woman is about to move on.
That was my case.
>> Yeah.
>> That was 100% my case.
>> Oh no. Mine too. Mine too.
>> Right. So, and so, um, when I was at the end of myself was my wife started to work out ferociously. She started to Hold on, let me back up. When my wife when my wife when my wife had to raise our oldest daughter on her own and uh we live in two different places and [clears throat] she would she would let she would she would let me have the uh the room cam in my apartment so I could see my daughter sleep and I was so selfish that I would still go out and I'd come in I so first of all I [clears throat] would come the next day and pick up my daughter to play with her. You got you got her. She ready, you know. And and my wife was so kind. She just heap coals on my head.
>> And uh Co, our daughter Ka was always dressed, always pristine, hair done. And I could very well be coming off a night where I was up all night, eyes red. I think if I, you know, brush my teeth and I looked apart, like she can't tell that I've had a long night. She [clears throat] knew. And and I would spend those those times kind of just with my daughter during the day and then whatever. Um, and then at night I'd watch her wake up three, four times a night going in there, taking care of my daughter, putting her back to sleep.
There were some times where she crawled in the crib to sleep with her. And I'm watching this like living a life that didn't I was just being single and just doing what the hell I wanted to do. And I'd watch her and I'd be like, "This is such a good woman."
But no, I I I walked out. She never took me back. I don't want to restore this because of the trust droplets that have to drop in because trust pours out and it drops in. And I don't want this process again. I don't want to do this.
it's easier to do this than just wallowing in pride and just being a boy, immature. And at the end of myself, my wife started to say cool things like, you know what, [clears throat] I never take you back. That's done. That's over with. And she started to level up. And she mentioned like, I think I'm going to start dating cuz we had such a great friendship.
And she'd say, "We'll be great friends. will always have a great relationship for her.
>> Not because I need you.
How did that maturation process happen?
My wife found God >> in her darkest place when I wasn't helping. I wasn't being the man I am today. She would just cry and find God every day. As soon as Cole come around the corner, wipe her tears, show her what a woman was supposed to look like.
She did that for like a year and a half.
And the Lord built her up. And I watched her go from this person who needed me, who was dependent upon me, that I was her I was her idol and I was like, I want her back. I need to have her back, right? Um that was when I was at the end of myself. And so, you know, um on this podcast, I'm going be very vulnerable and telling that's that's not the way to go about it.
>> And that was terrible. But from that loss and seeing her level up, um, the Lord was reckoning us back together because nothing I could ever do or anyone could ever do would give her that glow and that confidence, that confidence and all the things that she was doing. Um, and I'm telling you, supernatural things like, "How are you awake? How are you how I watched you?
I've been watching you." And um, I think that's what what romanced me back to Christ. And um and when I was at the end of myself and I was willing to literally take my own life, she said, [clears throat] "If you want this family even have a chance, cuz there's no chance. I I don't know if I'll ever be with you again or touch you. I hate you.
You got to at least be come back to God." And that's what that's what drove me through Hope City stores.
And yeah, if it wasn't for God in her life, that first Peter, she didn't even know she was walking it out.
>> She had no idea. That's all she could do. She had no >> Yes.
>> Her she was dependent on God.
>> Um I watched my wife become who she is now. And um and that fruit, man. That fruit.
Yeah. Uh you just reminded me of something. I I wasn't even thinking about this, but so um my uh wife is really good. She's really close to my oldest brother. So my oldest brother is 12 years older than me.
>> Mhm.
>> Um he like a dad to me. Have my mom and dad are still married. Love my dad. He's a great dad.
>> But I have like a bonus dad. Um my oldest brother.
>> Cool.
>> Uh and he's great.
>> Smart guy. great husband, great father, great man. Um, >> he inspired us to go to college. Like he's he's he's that he's that dude.
Respect him completely. Um, lean on him a lot. Call him. Um, so I'll never forget when my when my wife found what she found, she got in a car. We we fought. She got in a car and I didn't know where she went because we weren't sharing location at the time.
So, I didn't know where she was.
>> Yeah.
>> She drove straight to my brother's house. She knocks on the door. He opens the door. She's crying and she just unloads to him.
And um I had to go to a hotel cuz she kicked me out of the house. So, I was in a hotel for a couple days. He texts me.
He says, "Hey, I need to meet with you."
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was working um doing some stuff and I was like, "I can't meet this day. I can't meet that day." I was really trying to avoid the conversation with him. We finally go to a restaurant in the Heights. Uh I pull up, he's already there. I walk in. Um he had ordered his food and waiter comes by and he says, "Hey, what do you want?" And I order my food and we kind of eat. We're just kind of shooting a breeze and just kind of small talk.
And then he kind of slams his hands on the table and he says, "Hey bro, what are you doing?"
And he confronted me. so hard on all these things that nobody had ever confronted me that difficult on. And it was in your face. He was loud. He was to the point. And he was like, "Dude, you're screwing up. You're going to lose your family."
And nobody had ever come at me like that >> ever. But I needed that tough dude, you're about to lose everything if you don't straighten up.
>> Yep.
And I think what the enemy does is one of the reasons why he tries to keep us out of community >> is he wants us to avoid that confrontation.
>> He wants us to avoid that. And it's funny sometimes sometimes we try to hide behind prayer because because there's no physical per you know you know you know what I'm trying to say. Sometimes we try to hide behind that God will put people in our lives to directly confront us about stuff. Mhm.
>> And when I tell you it was the hardest conversation I've ever had in my life, wasn't a long conversation. It was the hardest, most in-your-face, realest conversation I ever had. And I made excuses >> and I had good reason >> to be in the place that I was. And he said, "Bro, that's that's an excuse."
>> And I would come up with another one, legitimate stuff. He'd be like, "I understand that's an excuse."
>> Yeah.
>> Come on.
>> It was the confrontation, the in your face, you got to change. And if you do not change, this is going to happen.
>> And it was that day. I lied earlier. I said >> I I said I came to myself. I didn't. It was confrontation that got me there.
>> Come on. It always is.
>> It was confrontation that got me there.
And it was through somebody that I respected and I loved >> who was so disappointed. He was disappointed and he was brutally honest with me.
>> Like there was no sugar coating it. It was no, oh, let's pray. Like no, it was like brute I can't even can't even say the words that he said to me.
>> It was that hard.
>> That's what I'm talking about. And I think as men and as women, we need people in our lives who are not afraid to unashamedly say, >> "Okay, you're going down a road and if you don't turn around, you are going to screw this up."
>> How does God speak to us? Three ways, right?
Through that, >> which most men and women don't pick up, >> guilty.
Number two, Holy Spirit, which is cultivated by this >> and Christians. Yep.
>> Man, a isolated Christian is a dead Christian. And it's it's man, it's those conversations where thank God that then you're in your word.
>> Yeah.
>> A little bit more than me at this point in time. Um, can I ask him a question, >> please?
>> Dude, I I want to honor you >> for telling the real and obviously, you know, not sugar coating it and and keeping it real. I know how much you respect your brother, >> man. Can I ask you because I get excited for that, you know, because >> man, how fired up are you to be that guy for somebody else?
>> Bro, let me tell you, man. Um, we we do it's crazy. So, this ministry, I talk to men all the time and I see the I see myself in them. I guess that's the way I want to put it. I I I was there. I was in the place when they're talking to me about what they're struggling with, what's going on in their marriage. I was like, "Ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh. I know what it's like cuz I was there."
>> Yeah.
>> Like, "Let me help you." Like, before you go too far, let me help you.
>> Yeah.
>> Let me help you. Let me if you and and I have some guys that say, "You just don't understand." I had one guy tell me, "We're about to sign the divorce papers." I said, >> "Okay, cool. I still need you to show up on Tuesday night."
Yeah, but we're going through this. I hear you. I hear you, bro. Cuz I've been there twice >> two times. I've been there.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I get it. There there there is nothing that you can tell me that I have not heard or have not gone through or have not done. Zero. I got you. If you can just walk alongside me and it it's not me. I'm lit. I'm just a vessel. Like I am not >> just show >> like I am not perfect. If you would just walk alongside us, I promise you, you'll get to where God wants you to be quicker than what I did. Because I we were we were we were on the line. We were on the line. I was in a hotel room. She was doing her thing. We were on the line. I promise you, we can get there. But you got to do the work, man. Just got to show up.
>> You gota That's the first thing is you got to show up.
>> Yep.
>> You got to show up. You got to let God be God, but you got to show up. Mhm.
>> And um I think the enemy, I'll say this again, I've said this five times, but he he definitely wants to keep us isolated because he doesn't want that confrontation.
>> He doesn't want somebody to look at us and say, "Bro, I hear you. That's wrong." Yeah, it's good.
>> Can we talk about the isolation?
>> Yeah.
>> Where you're not alone, >> but your [snorts] friend group has changed.
>> Oh man, that's a season, >> right? Because as as a wife, >> yeah, >> and I I speak from a place as as a discerning wife, >> when your husband is walking through anything, whether that's health, mental battles, financial challenges, >> we just see differently.
>> Yeah.
>> Let's talk about how you surround yourself with people, how you can still be isolated, but in the midst of many.
>> Yep.
>> What did that What did that look like?
>> Say that again. how you can be surrounded, how you can be isolated but still surrounded by many.
>> That's really good.
>> Yeah. I have a a friend group, I'm still friends with them to this day that I I cannot talk to every day. I just can't.
They don't believe what I believe.
So, I had to develop this is one of the reasons why we had issues, right? So, I was not developing that group of people that could hold me accountable that did believe what I believe.
>> Yeah.
>> Intentionally.
>> Yes. But one of the best things for a married couple to do to do is to surround themselves with stronger married couples. You need to have married friends.
I had we I had a lot of single friends.
>> Yeah. No. Can't do it.
>> Can I, bro? It's like what?
>> Can't do it.
>> You're surrounding yourself with people that aren't that aren't >> an association and a best friend to um >> we're not even we're not even the same stage of life. So, so there are things that you just don't get. I'm going to bring this up on the pod. We have had people that come to us that are they say they're legally married.
>> Oh, shoot.
>> And it's like, >> man, >> common law.
>> I'm sorry. Common law. That's what I meant.
>> No, I'm just I'm just eating.
>> No, I mean that that that's what they say. They say we're we're you know, um cuz we've been together for four and five years. Yes. All that stuff.
>> We're not even in the same space.
>> We're just not like I I I I I I I want to be there for you.
We're not even in the same space.
>> We don't have the same covering.
>> So the the blessings that come the blessings that come with this, you don't, bro, you don't have access to that.
>> You don't have the same covering. You don't have the same charge.
>> It's >> it's different.
>> We our responsibilities in the kingdom are different.
>> So why would you surround yourself, right? Why why would why would your your major friend group be people that are not? And again, I'm not saying you can't have friends that are single, but what if if if >> they're not friends though that you walk and do life with? They're just people that you've known that share a common past, but you're probably not going to share a common future.
>> That's the thing.
>> And if we're not careful, we start going back to that past. we start going back to that past >> because it but it's easy, right, for people to say Christians, I'm not speaking to them until he's speaking to us, the body, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Well, Jesus surrounded himself with people that weren't perfect and like he could be in the midst of tax collectors and all of the people that weren't perfect. So, like, >> oh man, that's a slippery slope.
>> Let's talk about that cop out. No, for sure. That's a copout. Well, I give you kind of my side of the story. The Lord began to move in my life in such a way that my homies just understood Yeah, D's out the game. All right, let's move on. And my homie, I I'll talk to him sometime like, "Bro, you were we were the A team. I got the B team now."
And he tells me about going out with these guys that, >> you know, and I'm just like I just laugh. I just laugh with him. Like, yeah, bro, that's terrible. Anyway, what's going on with you? Calling him to a higher standard, man. Man, married life, bro. It's awesome. It's not that.
Trust me, it's not that. Um, and and that came from a community of men that were like, "Hey, you've been with Kate a minute. When you put a ring on it >> and every Sunday, >> like, yeah, I get it." Okay. But just calling me to a higher standard.
>> Um, and showing me what cuz I never was raised around men that were actual fathers and dads.
>> Never.
>> It's like that's lame, >> strong, >> bro. I'mma give up all for that. Nah.
>> But to see that actually happen, this dude is cool. he's honorable and has great integrity. He can sleep on the pillow at night. So, I started to move into that role in my circle, which was really weird. It was really it was it was unique. Um, and so [clears throat] I I believe because I was actually walking and doing the same thing and I was congruent, people began to start saying just and then that's the Lord though, that's the Lord's anointing is where because you asked that question, you know, that that isolation. It's actually it just happens in it just happens on its own where people start my my homies would just start to see it and then [clears throat] because I started to have kids, they were like, "Yeah, all right. you talking about your kids, man.
I'm out here doing whatever. And so, uh, they became the friends. Here's the thing. The friends that really wanted to be in my life became curious.
>> They weren't turned off or or judging.
Oh, really? What's up with Z? What's up with Koa? And so, those are my friends I'm still rocking with. Even if they are still single and whatnot, right? There's fruit there. But the ones that are still doing the same things, um, serving flesh, doing things, they've naturally fallen away or I've told them, "Bro, I can't talk about that with you anymore, man." And to be honest with you, there was really I didn't really have any friction. I didn't really have a like, oh man, I'm missing my boy. It just didn't happen for me. Maybe I'm rare.
>> Yeah. Let me take it a step further. So, what the enemy will do >> and then we'll come back to your question because that was a good one.
Like how do you kind of >> let me take this one step further. So what the enemy will do is he will make you feel isolated. He will say you don't have anybody. Oh, now you're a Christian. You ain't got nobody. You by yourself.
>> It takes intentionality to create to to form that circle of people.
>> You've talked about it um off camera, but like the things that you do, the groups that you have, you have to >> like things don't just happen. You have to put you've got to put some work into it.
You want a great marriage, you got to put some work into it. You want healthy relationships with a you want to develop a tribe, >> you got to you got to be intentional about it. So like you can't just come to church and leave every every week.
>> Can't do it.
>> Consumer Christian >> can't do it. You can't just slide in and slide out. You can't you have to intentionally >> plant roots.
>> You have to >> Yeah.
>> Um to with people that will call you higher, with people that will call your stuff out, with people that will say, "Hey, bro. This is a blind spot for you.
I know you don't see it, but I just want you to be careful about this.
>> And Derek, here's the biggest misconception.
Most men, let's just say men, okay? Um, [clears throat] >> they think when they get into a group, people are automatically going to call you out because they're Christians.
>> You still have to have relational equity to show up to even have for them to even feel like they can speak into you. So, >> it's not even it's the intentionality.
[clears throat] >> I would say you just show up.
>> Mhm.
>> And the Lord moves cuz you show up and then and then you're known and people begin to know you and now they can speak into you and there's an intentionality of actually sticking around.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. I don't think you have to be intentional to to build a group. And this is just from my experience. I just showed up. I signed up for the group. I I'll serve. What am I gonna do? Hold the door? No big deal. Right.
But it's like you told the boys, man.
It's just showing up. Yep. And then all of a sudden when you're intentional and you're actually coming out of your shell, then then I can have something to speak into because because I know you and that's the part that people can still hide in. Right. I was in the group though, >> right?
>> I was there Tuesday night.
>> Yeah.
>> But are you intentionally taking those layers like an onion off?
>> Right. Because because what's important, I'll add this real quick, Dez, is I mentioned blind spots earlier. So >> yeah, >> like that's what we're here to do >> is to help each other see things that we can't see.
>> Mhm.
>> You can um you can hurt yourself and have a scar that's on your hand that you forgot that it was there because you look at your hand every single day. But when you surround yourself with people that may say, "Hey, you you may not realize this. You've done this to me before. You may not realize this, but watch your X. Watch this. Just want I just I just want you to be aware of this thing. M >> that is the Holy Spirit that is God in his graciousness >> moving on somebody to say I need you to go talk to this person about something that they don't even realize >> could be an issue or is an issue they don't even see it >> that's God that's the hope that's the Holy Spirit working through this person.
So that's why community is important because it helps us in ways that we don't even know in areas that we don't even know is an issue.
>> Right. It it helps us.
>> It's so vitally important for us to get around people >> that want the best for us.
>> And the best.
>> It's not always feel good. It's not always the quote unquote fun thing. It's not always what pleases our flesh all the time. I mean, >> it very rarely is.
>> Very rarely. Very rarely.
>> We were talking about We were talking about We were talking about fitness earlier.
>> Yeah. Um, I was talking to one of our pastors um um about uh he's he's a jack dude. You know exactly what I'm talking about.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and we were talking about um his his eating regimen >> and he was saying he eats a certain this certain thing and I was like that didn't taste good. He's like I don't I don't eat it because it tastes good.
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> I eat it because it is good. It's good for me. That's why I consume it because it's good. He's like I stopped eating for taste a long time ago. Now, if you if you look at him and look at me, >> that's so >> if you look at him and look at me, you'll be like, "This is what I want over here." He was like, "I I I stopped I stopped trying to satisfy my pallet a long time ago.
>> It's all about what it does for me."
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> Y'all, this conversation is We're going to have to split it into two. There's so much that we've talked about and so much that we still need to discuss. So, we're going to take a break. Thank you for joining us. Share this conversation with a wife or a husband that's [music] married. They don't have to be going through something today, but trust there's something here that they can find value in and that will impact [music] their marriage. Join us for part two of this incredible conversation.
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