Phala Phala ConCourt judgment | Prof Sipho Seepe weighs in

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]National Assembly speaker to T tootiza has given direction for a process to constitute the impeachment committee to consider the section 89 inquiry process and it follows the constitutional court judgment which directed the national assembly to establish an impeachment committee to probe the findings of the section 89 independent panel report and it found that president Ramaposa may have a case to answer on the theft of foreign currency at his Palapala game farm in Limobbo and we discuss this now with political analyst uh professor Prof. Good evening to you and thank you so much for your time. I'm going to circle back to what the speaker uh said through a statement earlier on in just a moment. But I want us to start with the this development tonight. We are learning the president will be addressing the nation at about 8:00.

[00:00:45]What are your expectations? Well, I think he's going to reaffirm his commitment to the constitution and uh that the party that he leads has fought hard for this democracy and he was a player in the consumer making process.

[00:01:04]So, he'd be the last person to undermine it. So, I think the court had been very clear in terms of what the process should be. Actually when you talk about the conal court it talks about ordering that we submit the following order and then they list a number of things that need to happen >> and I want us to to to you know stay with that because there's a lot of uh you know people who are speculating you know the realm of speculation will always um you know be alive and active during such a time but when you look at the ANC in itself as far as this process is concerned because ultimately it is a process. It doesn't mean that the court delved into the merits of this particular matter when it comes to the handling and from what you've been hearing from different leaders within the organization to this particular point would you say they've all reacted correctly and is this how it's meant to be handled?

[00:02:02]>> Well, first the ANC started by wanting to shield its presidents. You need to understand that when the EFF and ATM made an application, that application was opposed. It was opposed by the president. It was opposed by the D speaker. It was also opposed by the ANC.

[00:02:22]So you can't say when they come out of this the court, they did not come out clean. the the court had ruled against their attempt to try to squash this uh process or h in terms of what the EFF was saying is that their understanding is that the report should have been dealt with by the next step because the whole idea of having a panel that panel serves as a sifting mechanism to try to collect all the relevant facts and information and then they it does not make a judgment whether the president is guilty or otherwise to say based on what we have. This is the picture that we get and that should have gone to the impeachment committee. But the AC used its majority to stop that. So with the court having pronounced itself, it has made it very clear that the next thing that needs to be done is that the report must ultimately be given to the impeachment committee to consider. And how do you see that process unfold?

[00:03:30]>> Well, the speaker has been very clear about how that will how it should happen. First, she's going to initiate the process of the establishment of the committee.

[00:03:41]>> And after the committee has been established, there are a number of things that she has decided will come into play. One, she's going to make sure that the committee is given the >> the judgment of the court >> and secondly, it's going to be given the section 89 report from the independent panel >> and then there will be an engagement but she'll also come up with logistical issues in terms of the program in terms of the timeline in terms of the uh the type of support. Yeah. So you'll deal with that and then the final thing will be ultimately the national assembly must deliberate on what emerges out of the impeachment committee >> and the deliberations of the national assembly are going to be key here because we are back to uh that particular point where the national assembly is important as well when it comes to this particular process. There are some who are skeptical to say that when you concluded the process of impeachment, you send it to the national assembly for deliberations. Some are skeptical of that particular process of the deliberations who are saying you may not be able to get this two-thirds majority that is required. Others are saying you may actually get it and I wonder what you know when you look at parliament currently what is your reading of that? Well, I think um for it to pass once the process has been concluded, you'll need certain members of the ANC to vote with the opposition or those who want the president to be removed and that would be do not come easy. But what members would be guided by will probably emerge through the the process itself.

[00:05:23]You need to understand that the impeachment process is rigorous. It's embarrassing. And um if you one had read the section 89 report, the prison was given an opportunity to respond to the panel and the panel has written as said they received his response to the questions and they found that his answers to be seriously wanting and the chair uh the former chief justice was very clear that in coming to a determination on the grounds of finding against the president. It was said that he has a case to answer. He says you don't drag a sitting president easily into that. You must be meticulous in terms of facts before you. You must have done there must be something tangible that says we didn't arrive at this lightly. And you are talking about people who are seasoned luminaries in law as a former chief justice as a a former and a retired senior judge and a senior council. You are not talking about simply Johnny come lately. You're talking about people who can say this is what we've been dealing with as judges the information to dissect. So they've come to that conclusion. So that the report is very waiting.

[00:06:46]Now the work of parliament is is under scrutiny once again and when we listened to that judgment it was quite clear um you know as the process was then being taken back to parliament that again we are finding this particular institution uh you know really found with some serious questions to answer as far as its old work is concerned. It's a an institution that in the Zonda commission's report for example was also found wanting when it comes to the issues of effective oversight. How crucial will it be for this current speaker and this current uh parliament to then be able to do this in such a way that it is above scrutiny. It goes with its rules to the latter.

[00:07:32]>> Yeah. Well, the political calculus has changed. the NC does not have the majority anymore and uh what you also have you have this GNU the real test is whether members of the GNU who used to be in opposition are going to start doing what the NC has always done shield the president one must also remember that the DA was the first to rush and call a press conference that they going to report this matter to the FBI at that point in time they were very convinced that the president had a case to answer but we should also not underplay the seriousness with which the panel took this matter. There are a number of uh findings and statements that I made. One is that the president was not open about the money that was kept in his house. He was not open about it having been stolen. that only came out after a Fraser reported and when he was asked speaking to members of the ANC he said that these are the proceeds of sale effectively saying I'm in a business of selling and uh cattle or or game but the in terms of the constitution the president is supposed to be focusing on the job he should not be having a side hustle so the already there you already had a problem and in addition you also had this matter handled wrongly by his own people who are supposed to be the VI protection because you are supposed to to have reported this matter and we know that it for 2 years there was a concealment. So the report is very clear around that aspect and it says the here there's a serious violation and if you listen to the language in their findings they say there's a serious violation of the constitution there's a serious violation of the law there's also serious misconduct.

[00:09:44]So these are the things that the impeachment committee will look at the evidence that have been brought for this committee to come or this panel to come to those conclusions.

[00:09:56]>> How much of a test is this for for the GNU? And and one would ask this because the the DA says that it will not defend criminality uh should there be of course such a finding. This is all still in the initial phases because you know that that impeachment process still to come but there is a lot to speak about as far as the dynamics within the GNU are concerned and how how much of a test is this for the GNU and what would be the correct response of the government of national unity? Well, in terms of the the numbers, the president can survive this if all members of the ANC decides to ignore or vote to support their president. But the the damage is not at that level. It will be the reputational damage that will come during the impeachment process if he subject himself to that impeachment process, which it appears that he is likely to. He loves being a president and any leader who takes his party down by 22% share of the vote in any other country they would have stepped down.

[00:11:11]But this president loves being a president. So I don't see him wanting to simply resign as some people suggest. I mean it would be a big surprise. And besides these are issues that will be ventilated within the ANC and we've already seen some members of the ANC speaking about the conduct of the ANC h in that parliament. First you had the president Becky who actually warned them and said you guys are sending a wrong message. You are saying you need to protect the president so much that even when he says he is innocent, you don't even trust him. You would actually decide to close that. Now you have the former speaker and deputy president Balam also saying this matter should have handled been handled differently that the manner in which the handled this was also seriously wanting. You will have the former speaker also uh Misa making the same statement that what happened there is was the ordering a members being ordered and uh we remember how they were reminded that nobody came here with his own jacket. you came through the NC and you when you tore the line which of course you will accept but we also remember that it was the same conal court that directed members MPs to say when you become an MP when you are a public representative you take an oath and that oath is that you going to serve the people of this country and what the ANC has almost done is that you're going to be on our side I'm not saying the other parties will not do the same they'll will do the same but it will go against one of the judgments where that was pent by Muing to say members should vote according to their conscience but we know now that those are wonderful statements and sentiments they don't happen in real life >> profly before I let you go I'm out of time uh let let's talk about the implications politically because either way whichever way this goes there are serious political implications here >> or given that this matter will be handled in a manner that as directed by the consumer court they expect that there'll be an element of transparency.

[00:13:34]There will be element of meaningful engagement with this all these things that were hidden from the public will become matters that the public will say are we being led by people who are highly compromised. is this party or other parties that will support or not support the impeachment process turning a blind eye to possible criminality. So it is a question of as MMA put it either you support the constitution or you support crime. So it will be up to the public to judge and politically they would make their own mark and this is why this process is so important for it to be public.

[00:14:14]>> Prof. Appreciate your time. Thank you so much for speaking to us and just for coming through Professor Cos speaking to