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They Were First In The Air For Summer Wells: Drone Experts Speak Out (LIVE)
Added:[music] You get up in the morning. You aren't sure which way [music] to go. There's one thing to remember. Just follow the pull of your soul.
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[music] There's no place we won't go, my friends. There's no mountain top to [music] hide. We're all just friends here, working hard, standing side by side. Whether [music] scanning in the riverside with friends or crawling through the forest, hope is seen. There is light despite all of the wicked [music] darkness. Despite [singing] all of the darkness I face, [music] [music] [music] hey, welcome everyone. This is not I just shut my door. This is not a evening we usually go live on a Wednesday. We're usually Thursday or Sunday night. So I want to thank you all for being here tonight. Uh this has been a while in the works. I want to thank everyone who's coming in right now. We've got Tian Twister, Sheila Brennan, of course.
Thank you Royal Rockam Robin and Glenn GL Borts for uh coming in here to mod for us. Thank you, um, the reluctant psychic, Jennifer, my wife, for being willing to mod tonight. She's not a tech, uh, geek. So, she's she wasn't she's more into modding tonight than being part of this show. We're going to be geeking out quite a bit tonight. Um, and I'm excited about I'm going to tell you why I'm really excited about this tonight because of the topics we're covering. There's a lot of stuff. Um, let's see who else here. I don't want to miss anyone. Thank you for being here.
Voices on the wall, behind the wall, or on the wall. Jasper, um, I see you.
Thank you for being here.
Oh, I'm so bad at welcoming everyone. I always miss people. Spicy B Joe, Jan, Spam, Bam, thank you all so much for being here tonight with us. Um, Mommy Spicer. Uh, Jean actually our our uh I'm calling him our pioneer of the drone industry, social search and rescue. He's working on his uh audio and video. We were working on it before the show. We decided we're just going to get going. Um because we do have a little bit to talk about at the beginning. I'm going to be introducing you to someone you're going to be seeing often. Uh we also have we're going to have a big announcement at the end of this live. So stick around to the end. We will be talking about several cases with these guys. They are they are the people who folks like Equaarch and law enforcement uh bring in to use the highest tech drones possible to search places using advanced technology not just video but things like um infrared heat sensors all kinds of amazing things. We're gonna talk to Gan is one of the guys who was at the beginning of this I'm gonna call it an industry search and rescue with drones. Um there's a lot that he went through as at the foundation of when uh when drone experts were started doing this. He had fights with the FA with the FAA we're going to talk about where they wanted to stop people from using drones.
He fought with them to make sure that that was not going to happen. Um, and of course Chris, who I'm going to be bringing in here in just a minute. Um, [snorts] Chris has been flying in in the radar here locally. Uh, he has he and Jean have done searches in cases around here. And you guys have not heard of you might have heard of Gan because of the stuff he's done with Equaarch in other on other high-profile cases. Chris, who I'm going to bring in here in a second, has been doing things in the background. He has been searching for summer longer than we have since day one. And I'm going to bring Chris in real quick while Jean's working on um getting his audio and everything working. I'm going to introduce you all to uh Chris. I'm gonna bring you in.
Chris, how are you? Good, sir.
>> Uh fantastic. Ryan, how are you?
>> Good. Thank you for being here. Um how's Jean doing?
>> Um I think uh Gan is still working on his mic. Um, last I checked, uh, he can hear us. He just can't get his mic working. I'm not really sure. Um, >> yeah, >> some people have to connect with both audio and video on the phone. He may have to just kind of put it up on a stand or something that may work.
>> I mean, that that's good enough.
Hopefully hopefully working.
>> Yeah. So, I just let him know to maybe just try to join on his phone and >> that way I mean, you know, may not be best quality, but at least we'll have him here and and you know, we got to have the pioneer of of drone search and rescue in our in our chat today, right?
>> Yes, absolutely. There's so much we want to dive into with him. Um, I want to introduce everyone to to you now. You and I met because you reached out what was it maybe three weeks ago? Two or three weeks ago when we first started talking. [cough] >> Yeah. Um, yeah, we started talking a few weeks ago. Um, and you know, we we talked a little bit about a little bit about the Summer Wells case. Um, you know, um, I've talked to you multiple times. Uh, I'm I've got to know you over over the last few weeks and, uh, you know, I'm real excited moving forward, some of the things that we're going to do. Um, but, uh, just to tell you a little bit about myself, um, is, you know, I started this with Jean. Um when Equaarch came in uh there was uh some private investigators by by the name of CNC Investigations that was working closely with the Wells family u several years ago. Um they were putting in a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of effort.
Um and uh you know they they were able to get Equasarch in here and uh that's kind of where I came along. Um once uh once Equasarch came in, you know, I kind of just uh met up with Equasarch and that's where I met Jean. And uh once I met Jean, uh >> that's cute. I'm sorry.
>> Yeah. Um once I met Gan, it was it was on from there, you know. I I immediately realized that this was something uh this was a a passion of mine. Um this is something that I wanted to do. Um, you know, I I spent hours and hours with Gan that weekend. Um, and we were able to uh, you know, we flew near infrared. We flew um, you know, several different drones uh, throughout Beach Creek and the surrounding areas that weekend with Equarch um, on multiple targets that that had been pointed out by CNC investigations.
And uh so you know as that weekend went on um I I spoke with Jean about you know how could I get involved with this? What what can I do to uh to help my community to help you know when you all are gone?
What can Chris do to continue to help with this investigation? Um so >> because you're you're right here. I mean you're you're local. You're you're you're you're uh ready and able. You're capable of getting out there on Summer's case and on a lot of cases.
>> Yeah.
>> In East Tennessee, right? So, and you have the tools, you have the capabilities, you have the technology. I mean, you've got the training from Gan, right? He kind of take you under his wing and >> he did. Um, >> you know, Jean told me uh I had to give him a ride home to Knoxville. Uh we were we were going to Tyson McGee airport that uh that evening and he you know we kind of had to leave before Equ did that day because we Jean couldn't miss his flight. Um, so as we were on our way, um, welcome Jean. Welcome.
>> Um, as we were on our way, um, and I I kind of want to bring Jean in on this.
>> Jean probably remembers, you know, he told me, he said, Chris, I'm going to tell you now, if you are going into search and rescue for the money, just stop. Don't do it. There's no money in this. This is about helping people. This isn't about making money. This isn't about getting famous. This is about helping your community and doing what you can to bring closure to families. Um me and Jean had some heart-to-he heart conversations on the way to that airport that day. And uh you know, it definitely left me with a lot of thinking to do.
I'm not really sure uh you know if Jean thought that I was going to be uh you know that I would make it happen as quick as I did. But before you know we were you know we were just a few months in and me and Jean were working closely together and uh you know next thing you know we're we're transferring terabytes of data from Tennessee down to Texas.
Gan is searching through pictures. I'm searching through pictures and is every time we could get out to Beach Creek, we were going out there to uh to fly our drones to uh you know, just a little bit more information. The more information we could get, the better. Um so was that when you guys met for the first time?
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> So we're gonna we're gonna get to that.
There's something going on with phone though. I think the the speaker might be behind your phone or the position of your phone is picking up. Let's just see if [snorts] you are you using the mic on your phone?
>> Yes, I am. I >> try turning down the uh speaker if you can. Just a little bit. As long as you can still hear us. That may help.
>> Okay. How about that?
>> I think that's better. Yep. It was just too loud. It was the microphone is picking it up. Looks like it's >> got you. Okay.
>> Perfect. So, we're going to get to every a lot of people in this community uh across the world, honestly. And you you probably recognize, Jean, like we cover other cases. We have covered Summerwell's case a lot. I'm not going to deny that. Like, we just because we're this is our community. This is where we are. That's the biggest case I think in this area. We'll get to that.
We'll get to everything that you guys kind of saw in that case. But I I want people to understand people who haven't uh and we're going to also get back to you Chris a little bit later. We're going to talk dive a little deeper into your plans going forward. But when it comes to Jean, there's a long history.
Um and I got the last few days I've been spending like I knew your name just because getting into the drone world.
I've heard stories from long ago and I then I started reading articles and there's so much you have been a part of and I' I'd love you to give people a little bit of insight into how did you how did I know you were in the Air Force. How did you get into this world search and rescue with drones?
>> Well, um I've been flying something been in aviation for as long as I've been alive almost. I've got pictures of me when I was four years old flying something. And um I did actually went on a couple of search and rescue missions in the Air Force as a volunteer. You know, the military you get volunteered for stuff all the time.
>> But uh uh I really enjoyed that. And um I and my education, my college education is in aviation as well. I'm a fullcale pilot as as well as a drone pilot. So um I decided to go into business for myself uh right after 2003 to 2004 felt that I could contribute to the drone industry the burgeoning drone industry as it was starting out and um that's that's essentially ground zero for me. So, I've been in it for over 20 years.
basically it's an extension of radio control to me uh to go into that business because I saw it as something that was going to really no pun intended take off and uh it it did you know and and uh there was a lot of obstacles thrown up in front of us and one of the things I still I still teach to this day I teach drone pilots um at our local community college and one the first thing I tell them is that being a drone pilot is a lesson in problem solving.
So, uh, you know, you just, uh, have to adapt, overcome, you know, survive, and just keep on going to to get out in the field and and keep birds in the air and looking.
>> Now, you're not you don't just buy a drone and fly it. Like, you actually build drones. Is that correct?
>> That's correct. I I designed I had what started me on that is uh I I had some surgery on my neck in 2000 and I was doing some studying while I was laying down and um started looking at flying wings and uh all the bad habits they had. So I decided I was going to tackle a flying wing and uh I came up with a design and uh engineered it, executed it and started manufacturing it and uh designed all my own CNC foam cutting machines and that sort of thing. And I came up with this this wing that had some really good flying habits. I mean it it was a pretty stable flyer and it would lift a good payload.
>> Oh wow.
>> And um it really windresistant. um actually flew one in a hurricane uh and uh it it worked out pretty well.
So I decided that was I was going to go into manufacturing those.
>> Are we talking about the Are we talking about the Spectra? Is that the one you're >> talking Spectra flying wing? That's exactly it. Yeah.
>> That that So, okay, I've got to share something with everyone because I saw this in the Austin Chronicle and it was that's why I'm telling people I'm telling you all here tonight. The history here is wild. The stuff that Gan has seen, we're not just talking search and rescue. We're talking a guy who who builds these things and has used it for various purposes, sometimes for law enforcement. But here's the Austin Chronicle article just to give you a little peak into this the background of of Gan here. Back in 2004, when aerial drones were still synonymous with Hellfire missiles, I think that's you, right, Jean? Flying a drone.
>> Yeah. Um, top secret military missions.
Former US Air Force medic Gene Robinson was looking for a way to change his change public perception. No longer able to fly a plane himself, Robinson designed the Spectra, an unmanned flying wing aircraft that can be remotely piloted in extreme weather conditions.
More than a decade later, Robinson and his Spectra have been to 30 states and three countries. He's helped break up a human trafficking ring in Tijuana, Mexico. Now, we're going to talk about that one [laughter] because that's fascinating.
[snorts] And traveled nearly 7,000 miles away from his house in Wimberly to search for Genghask Khan's loom. That's wild. Can So, I did happen to find uh an article.
I think it's that one actually at the bottom. I'm going to They give a little bit of insight into that story. I think at the bottom of this article, um, six years ago, Robinson was delivering a presentation to Mexican law enforcement in San Diego about the application of drone technology when the officers were suddenly called out on a case in Tijuana. Eager to help, Robinson and his team tagged along, driving 30 miles across the border into Canada into Mexico to assist the officers on a human trafficking case. Um, what was originally meant to be a series of PowerPoint slides and videos of past missions became an in-person demonstration of Spectra's capabilities.
The officers let Robinson know what two teenage that two teenage girl girls had been kidnapped and they needed aerial shots of the kidnappers. After three flights, Robinson delivered the authorities photos of the kidnappers, their vehicles, and a uniform police officer involved with the track traffickers. He'd given officer every officers everything they needed to apprehend the traffickers and recover the kidnapped girls. That is wild.
>> Yeah, you might say I've been around the block once or twice. [laughter] >> So is there is are there things that this was a really small synopsis of what happened. What was that like? Were you staged like did they know where the traffickers were roughly and you were staged somewhere and you were like just surveillance on on their home or >> No, they they had a couple of probable sites and uh it was interesting because we blew through the the presidential corridor. You know, we the federalis were with us so we didn't have to stop at the border. We just blew right on through. And uh we went to I do believe it's a University of Mexico and they said there's there's a place over there and and I had one of the first live video feeds that you could get on an aircraft drone aircraft and um launched it and uh they told me where to go and they said, "Okay, yeah, you're over the area now." And of course I could see where where it was too. So I started circling and they said, "No, no, no. We don't see the van. It's not there. we got another place we want to go. So come back down, land real quick and uh we jumped in the the up armored vehicle and we took off through the bario and they they put me in this little soccer field.
They said launch and you know go up and we'll tell you where to go. So launched it and they said fly in that direction and they went okay circle right there.
So, I started circling and they said, "Yes, that's the van and I started shooting pictures and uh we're watching the video and cops show up and they get out of the car and they go to the van.
They take something from the van."
>> Oh, wow. go back to their cop cars and they leave and the van is still there and they're doing something and while we're sitting there looking at the video and and I've landed the aircraft, I'm coming in for landing the aircraft.
Everybody takes off running and I have no clue what just happened and uh so we we jump in the vehicle and and they took off. The federalis took off and they ended up nabbing the guys right there and >> and they got the girls they recovered the the missing girl the uh >> in the van. Yeah, they were in the van.
>> Wow.
>> Two Guatemalan girls.
>> That has to have felt so good.
>> I I was well I was like a deer in the headlights. I was like just what just happened? You know, I didn't It all happened so fast, you know. They said, "Okay, come on. We're going to go get some tacos." And I was like, "Wait, wait, you got to tell me what's going on." So, yeah, [laughter] it was pretty interesting.
>> So, uh, Grace Paris. Yes. Uh, both Chris and Jean were around here in East Tennessee when Dave Rider was. You You guys were working all together with Dave, I assume, when he was here, right?
>> Yeah. Dave's a good guy. Uh, I've worked with him a lot and, uh, he's about as conscientious as they get.
And you've worked with Tim as well, Tim Miller. I mean, you guys are friends.
You still Yeah.
>> Yeah. That that's an interesting story, too, because Tim really didn't want to have anything to do with me. He's like, "Yeah, when are you going to do your little toy airplane [snorts] >> and he put [clears throat] me off and put me off and he finally he sent me to Monahanss, Texas." He said, "Yeah, go ahead. This guy's been missing for six months. See see what you can do." And uh we drove Texas, you know, you take off, you drive, and you go forever and you're still not there. So we drove and got to Monahans's right there uh at 4:00 and it was getting dark. So we got one flight in uh then went to another place and got uh two other flights in, went back to the hotel and started looking at pictures and uh I said, you know, there's something in this picture right here I want to go look at first thing.
And we walked out the next morning and I literally walked straight to the guy and my mindset was this is like you got to understand this is my first search with an aircraft.
>> Wow.
>> Because I was walking through the thicket there. I looked over and I said, "Wow, somebody put a mannequin out there. Why do they do that?"
>> And I kept walking and I finally realized what I was supposed to be doing out there. I was like, "That's not a mannequin. And that's who I'm looking for.
>> Wow.
>> And you could see horse tracks where they'd walked literally, I'd say, within 10 yards of him and missed him.
>> So tall. Was there tall grass? Like was he just in foliage?
>> We hatched and and scrub and all kinds of stuff about, you know, head high.
>> Wow.
I um I actually found a video where Tim was talking about you and then they're telling the story on uh let's see the website awesome website the oh shoot I think it was the UAS website SUAS news that website they had they've got a bunch of great documentaries on you guys and this one it's 49 minutes so I'm not playing the whole thing but I found this clip where he's talking about when he called you in and then They talk about I think it's the case you're talking about right here too which is kind of cool. So I want to James contacted our office and I read the email and he wanted me to get a hold of him. thought he could be valuable to search and rescue organization. And I think it was right around the time that we was doing Natalie Holloway search and stuff. And I read his email and I didn't call him. I said, "Okay, a guy with a little model airplane is going to fly around. Tell me all the stuff you can do."
>> How does it make you feel, Jean, when he calls it a little toy model airplane?
[laughter] [gasps] >> Well, you know, we ended up having to overcome a lot of that in the beginning.
that there was no two ways about it. Um >> Yeah.
>> Even to this day there's a stigma that we are out playing. You know that we're out playing with our toys.
>> Yeah.
>> And people don't realize what an effective tool it can be. And that's that's what I tell people now. You're not playing with toys. You are training with tools.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Who's uh who's this guy? Is this you? [laughter] >> He's got hair and the whole nine yards.
I you know don't know.
>> All right.
>> Was a organization out of Houston called Texas Equaarch that we had known about for some time. We contacted them and offered our services to them. Told them that we could provide them with high resolution imagery and we could really help.
>> Then a month or two later he emailed me again. And then 6 months later, Jean actually tried to get a hold of us for probably a year and a half. And then finally, we had a case in West Texas [snorts] and guy was missing literally for 6 months.
Detective called me up and he says, "You know, his family just won't quit bugging me. I know this guy's okay out there, but we're just going to have to do something to shut the family up." So, I thought, well, let me put this guy Jean Robinson into a test. Just see if he's really willing to do something.
So, >> I didn't realize it was a test as well.
So, this was your first one with Equarch.
>> Yep. That was ground zero with Equarch.
>> That's wild.
>> I uh called him up and told him what we had.
>> So, what was that?
Well, I became Tim's best friend after that one.
>> Yeah. Once you proved that you could do what you said you could do, right?
>> And I said, "So, you know, if you want to go out there, they can use our help."
>> We got called and and they asked us to go out and the case was 6 months old and the gentleman had been missing for some time >> and met with the sheriff and the sheriff kind of looked at him and and said something in the words like, "Oh my god, what do you plan on doing with that?"
kind of shrugged his shoulders and walked away. And the very first flight, very first flight that Gene made, uh, he found our missing person's skeletal remains, um, with with a with a drone airplane.
When I got the phone call, I couldn't even believe it. The search coordinator called me up and I said, "Let me let me talk to this guy, Jeene Robinson. He really, Joe, he really really did find it." said, "Yeah, first flight."
>> Well, we drove out there the the five or six hours to far west Texas and set up launched the aircraft and flew three times before.
>> So, it's uh your your first one was this fixed wing aircraft, fixed wing drone, and that was what you started flying with.
>> Yep.
>> Was that the technology at the time? Is that kind of what people used?
Well, there wasn't anybody really doing search and rescue or or any sort of application like this with any kind of aircraft other than large full scale helicopters.
>> Yeah.
>> And aircraft. So, um if there was anything close, it would be the model helicopter, the RC helicopters that look like a real helicopter. And those things are extremely difficult to fly.
Yeah.
>> So, >> so back back then the cops weren't even used to anyone doing this. Like they they looked at you and they're like, "What's this guy doing?"
>> That's just wild. And now you got law enforcement agencies across the country using this technology.
>> Yep. And I'm I'm very pleased to be able to still serve those law enforcement agencies today, you know, by giving them training. And I still do a lot of um uh image analysis work for him, that sort of thing. Uh and and it's it's interesting that video, that interview, that video, I had been up for 36 hours because I'd been to another search and had driven back home and they had set up the interview and I can't remember exactly where we were, but um I was ver barely coherent when I did that interview. So it the fact that it came out as clear as it did is surprising.
[laughter] >> I think there's there's a little actually they go into the next case as well. The Devon Davis I think. Is that that one?
>> Oh yeah.
>> Yeah. Was that was that was this sequentially or was that the next case or was there's a lot of other stuff?
>> Oh now you're gonna get me to lying to you there because um I I don't remember.
But Devin Davis's case really drove home what a resource manager or resource uh uh allocation tool it was because with that case um Liberty County Department of Public Safety and the Rangers, Texas Rangers were out there for six days looking for Devon Davis >> using horses, ATVs, boats. canoes, everything. And Tim called me up Friday and said, "Hey, can you mobilize and come down?" And I said, "Sure." We jumped in, lavos, the big white bus, and and got down there Friday night. I flew at 9:00 in the morning, and uh it was a very difficult site to fly out of the river bottom. And um they were getting ready to uh demob. they were going to shut down and everybody was going to head off. They're going to say, "We just can't find him." And um I brought my wife with me, which that's another story that I need to tell because drones got us together. But um I brought her with me because she is the best image quint in the world. And uh she was in the bus looking at the images from my first flight. And uh I went out and was doing some other flights and she finally grabbed me at noon and she says, "You got to come look at this picture. I I think I found him." So I got to looking at him and I said, "No, it doesn't fit.
That's a that's an igloo cooler." Cuz the mother said that the the child was in maroon raglin sleeves. And I said, "This is just a red looks like a box."
She says, "No, you you you got to go look at it." I was like, "Come on, sweetie. I got to go fly." said, "No, go look at it." And I said, "All right. All right. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. I'll go do it."
And uh we walked out there and there he was. And um it it it shocked everyone because he was so close.
And this is a trend that we saw is that, you know, forest for the trees. He was so close they didn't see him.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He was in a container. Is that what it sounded like? It's >> I thought it was an igloo ice chest, but it was actually a child. And >> wow.
>> And like so many other times when you ask for an eyewitness report, if you ask five people, you'll get five different descriptions of an individual.
>> The child's own mother didn't know what he had on >> because he had on a red long sleeve shirt >> and she had given the incorrect uh clothing colors. Clothing.
>> Wow. I got to do a little business here.
I answer some questions. Yes, Chris and Jean worked together ever since they started on the Summer Wells case. We talked about that a little ear earlier.
We'll be touching on that in a little bit. I'm just kind of covering Jean's background here, but yes, Chris and Jean, do um ever since the Summer Wells case, how do you guys collaborate now?
Is it remotely just training or do you search together?
>> Well, I would uh I would give anything if I could put Gan on a plane up to Tennessee every time I needed him, right? Um but [laughter] unfortunately that's not possible. So um uh recently um you know hurricane Helen had came through our area and uh I I found myself completely overwhelmed. I was one of the only drone pilots that was flying in this uh for for the recovery at the time.
>> Um you know we had uh the air ops and they had some some drones that they were trying to put in the air. I know another drone team was down there, but there was just so much devastation that it was completely overwhelming. We needed so much ground covered and there was so many missions that needed to be uh that needed to be flown >> that I called Gan and I said, "Jean, I really could use your help." Um, and so, of course, Gan was he was ready to help.
and all the way in Texas. Um, you know, I would I would go out in the middle of the night, uh, 4:00 in the morning, something we can talk about as well. Um, and I would fly, uh, thermal, uh, thermal mapping missions. And >> before, uh, before I was, uh, would go to bed, I would send them all down to Gene, transferring terabytes of data uh, down from from Tennessee to Texas >> on uh, dropboxes. Uh, and, you know, I I would take a nap. Jean would uh I'd wake up and Jean would be sending me messages, Chris, you know, you got to tell the team this is this is where they got to look. This is it. You know, >> really, >> we need to put boots on the ground here.
>> Um I would relay that information back to our air operations team and they would send out teams to to look in those areas. And um doing that, me and Jean uh I would say we had huge success in that operation. Um, and of course we did get uh, you know, Equir sent a drone team down a little later in the week. They were able to help as well. Um, so it things did kind of get easier, but without Gan on the other end being able to help, I don't know, there's no way that we could have went through that many images that we could have uh, >> you know, that we could have looked at all those images and decided where to put those boots on the ground. So, I've got >> Would you like to um to kind of go over some of the technology that we used uh to determine uh some of the spots that we were going to put boots on the ground and go look?
>> Yeah. And before you do that, Gene, I got real quick, I got to welcome, we just got [clears throat] two new members, by the way. So, we've got Beth 31 Y5.
Thank you so much for becoming a brand new member. Um we also have Mama 67.
Thank you, too. Really appreciate it. I think people are feeling um encouraged by the type of work you do and the fact that you're coming out, Chris, and actually willing to kind of talk about this technology and the searching. And I would I would love to hear what Chris just asked you, Jean, because it sounded like you're down there in Texas. There's this missing girl in Tennessee. There's volumes and volumes and volumes of these images that you have to process. I have so many questions. Like do you are you number are you getting paid for doing this hours and hours of analysis?
Uh how do you do that? Is there is it like do you have a method of analyzing these images? Do you have you just developed your own protocol over time? I think those are the two things I'm so curious about.
>> Well, what I was in a past life I was a programmer.
>> Okay. So u you know I knew that computers would be the way to look at images and uh I I looked for the better part of 10 years in a way to do some sort of image analysis and uh I got introduced to a company called USRI out of Canada and uh they had come up with a product called locate LC and the number eight.
>> Okay. And um I saw that and uh it was the holy grail that I was looking for and uh I I worked with uh Shane, the guy that uh that wrote the program and and set it all up and uh tested a lot of the stuff with him and uh did some training stuff with him. And later on he came up with a package called RDT or radiometric data tool set.
And I'm not going to go into the weeds on thermography at this point, but uh the radiometric data tool set really took all the voodoo out of thermal imaging.
And uh they would it would process those images at four per second.
>> Wow. which that tool alone increased my productivity wildly of quantum leaps and uh it allowed me to isolate areas of interest based on you know the the research that we'd done and what sort of signatures to look for and I could identify those targets and the software would actually produce a map uh with coordinates so that again you know managing resources When you have boots on the ground, if you can send them directly to a target, you don't waste their time having to scan back and forth and do the shoulder-to-shoulder search. They can go directly to it, clear it, either make the recovery or, you know, we got that question answered and move on to the next one.
So you guys were were you using case details like in this case for example what Summer was wearing the color of clothing. Was it a visual like 4K or high resolution imagery or were you looking for certain patterns that you know in thermal imagery you know you need to look for in a case like this?
>> Okay. Well very different looking at and I'll throw some acronyms out there. Some RGB images that's red, green, blue which is your typical color image. um it will analyze down to the pixel level and uh it's kind of a misnomer. People say, you know, oh, let's let's do 4K video. It's actually lower resolution than a single still image that a 20 megapixel camera can take. So, um, this is one of the things that I've conveyed to Chris, and Chris has has proven this out as well, is that a single 20 megapixel image will give you more data than minutes of video that's at 1080 or even 4K.
>> Wow.
So, I mean, again, that's that's geeking out a little bit more, but um when you get down to it, I I've recovered a sports car underneath the tree canopy because it saw one pixel of red and identified it.
>> Wild. I've always wondered, and that was going to be another question, is how you deal with the the horrible summertime tree canopy. That I guess that's one example. You look for just a little bit of color anywhere in a target zone. Wow.
>> And you know, sure, the the canopy, that's our Achilles heel, right? We can't detect what we can't see.
So, there's a strategy for that. You know, when do you when do you go on those searches? Do you do it uh when the the leaves are off the trees? Do you especially on cold cases. Um, so we've de developed a whole strategy on on when to go out and when to use specific cameras for specific things.
And this is stuff that I've kind of gathered over the years. And I probably ought to do another book, but I haven't because the first one was bad enough.
[laughter] But I mean that that's the kind of thing that we've developed over the years. And Chris has gone out and uh done some stuff. We've done some LAR uh on some cold cases that Chris was very helpful with and getting the u the the imagery that we could overlay on the LAR. It it ended up being pretty inconclusive, but like I tell people when you go on a search, it's still good to know where they are not, if you know what I mean.
>> Clearing clearing areas, right?
So you can start dividing it down and and segregating parts that you know are cleared and move on to the next one and be very thorough with it.
>> So you guys were actually radioing in once you did you conducted the analysis, you sent information back to Chris and you're like, "Okay, here are coordinates the ground resources have to hit." Now, Chris, you were working with the command center, telling them, "Hey, we found XYZ at this spot and then this spot. You got to send a team in and check it out." Is that kind of how >> So, so yeah, I I do want to clarify um and make sure that, you know, we we're talking about because we're talking about kind of two different cases at once. Um, Hurricane Helen, uh, Gene was in Texas. We were sending that data back and forth.
>> Oh, wow. team was coming back and uh he was giving me the targets and I was taking them to uh to uh air ops, the air operations director and we were getting boots on the ground up here in Tennessee, specifically in the Irwin area and uh we we were uh able to help a lot along with the impact plastics. I know that you heard a lot about impact plastics. That's that's uh what me and Gene worked a lot on together was to help locate the victims from impact plastics. Now, when it comes to the Summer Wells case, um, Jean flew up here. This was actually, uh, >> you know, Jean came up here on a plane, landed in Knoxville. This is when I met Jean, and this is where it all began.
Now, there, you know, um, because I was a drone pilot. Uh, Jean was a drone pilot. Uh, you know, I don't know. I could I a drone pilot at that time, right?
>> [laughter] >> But um so I was definitely an aspiring drone pilot, but I had a whole lot to learn.
Um and so they kind of put me with Jean and it was um my job to go around with Jean to kind of um lead him around to the area because I knew the area very well. Um we had some uh some different areas that we were tasked to go to and Gene had some really good technology that he's talking about uh near infrared um and what what near infrared does it it helps us to to detect uh possible disturbed earth um or clandestine graves and uh you know this goes along with some of the studies that Jean's done down at the at the body farm for for several years now. Um, so we wanted to use that technology in the Summer Wells case and and see if there was anything that we could find. Um, we we go out, we would fly these uh these sites and we'd go back to the hotel. And let me tell you, Jean was the first guy. It didn't matter what anybody else was doing, taking a break, grabbing food. Gan was like, "No, man. I'm over here. I'm going to work." and and he was immediately going over the images that that we had flown that day. Um so there were several sites that that we flew. Um we could go into that in a lot more detail. Um and then uh if there was anything of importance, anything that we thought we needed to look at. Um you know, we would uh Gan would report back to the team and they would send the team out the next morning or or whenever to to go look at that. Um I learned a whole lot from Gan over that weekend.
I forgot you had mentioned the uh that you had also worked hurricane Helen Chris. That's right. So, especially the Irwin area and Okay. So, during Helen you guys were helping direct um ground searches kind of gene remotely and everything. Um >> yeah.
>> Was it mostly the impact plastics area?
Did you do other areas during Halloween?
>> Um we mapped out the hospital area. Um we uh all along the uh the corridor there um the I26 corridor that ran through uh Irwin. Um we we pretty much mapped that whole area out. Um it it was a lot of work and let me tell you there was you know this was my first real um real opportunity to work alongside several teams. You know TEMA was there uh FEMA was there. they were um you know they were flying government helicopters in every 15 to 20 minutes and so I had to learn to work alongside these other agencies and yield right away to some of these Blackhawk helicopters that were coming in. So that that kind of extended uh the time that it was going to take um to to get all these images into G.
>> That's right. Because you're flying you're flying low altitude and they're they're just coming right into your airspace, right?
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. And and you know, at that point, you kind of just got to re yield the ride away, come down, continue your flight once they're gone.
>> Yeah.
>> Cuz you know, the last thing you want to do is take the the risk of of losing a drone um you know, causing an accident and uh you know that that's not what we want to do, >> right? That that scenario, Jean, when he said, "So now I understand the situation now. Now we're talking about a flood a flood disaster where people are swept down river and potentially blur um buried underneath thick mud, right? So can you guys walk me through that, man?
Because you got people underground now.
So how what are you looking for and how are you looking for it at that point?
>> Well, you got to know a little hydraology. Uh you got to know a little geology while you're flying all this stuff. Um those are the most difficult times for us really. We we can search and we can point out probable areas, but getting real hard key clues um like uh a colored garment or something like that is very difficult in those situations because even near infrared um that soil has been displaced by water and once the water recedes it's been homogenized if you know what I mean. It's it's all it all looks the same.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's it's very difficult to point at one place and say, "Yeah, I would dig right there." Uh without knowing that, okay, with hydrarology, there's a bend in the river and that's where the deposits would be. or um you know I did some work as a as as a fireman with doing swiftwater rescues and learned what strainers were and what the the things that would snag an individual that was in the water. So, you know, you would point those out and then they would have to actually send teams out to go search those strainers.
So in that scenario, you're right after a disaster. The the land isn't isn't going to help you because it's too like if it was a fresh grave scenario where someone's put you're then you're looking for like a fresh disturbed earth kind of deal if it's right after >> correct.
>> Do you think Jean now that I'm thinking through because there's still not many but there's still some missing missing folks from the floods and it's been about a year. Do you think after time if a I'm trying to phrase things carefully because we are on YouTube, but if someone is underground and a decomposition's happening, do you think over time drone technology could actually detect that?
>> Well, actually, yes. Um, and that's one of the things that we discussed strategy-wise.
Um, with many of the cases that we've worked, cold cases, we are essentially nitrogen-based human beings. And what is fertilizer?
Fertilizer is nitrogen-based.
So if you are underground, if you are placed underground, you will over nitrogenate that soil, overfertilize it basically, and that will kill off the growth.
But then as it starts leeching out, you start becoming that fertilizer again.
And then you'll see opportunistic growth that doesn't normally occur.
The near infrared will pick that out and see that.
And we have we will say our our research at the body farm that we can see a grave that is over six years old. That's the official stance. Okay, that was actually a question in the chat. How many years can you actually detect that?
>> But, you know, unofficially under optimum conditions, who knows?
And part of our strategy is when we have these cold cases, the first thing we want to establish as we're going to go out and look is when is your first bloom in the spring?
>> Okay.
And you want to work that window because if you are in a fertilized area, those will grow first and they will stick out like a beacon.
>> Okay?
>> When you look at them in near infrared, >> when things first start growing, that makes sense because that would come straight up. So you'd have a patch, a significant patch over that area. Wow.
So there's some of the strategy that we've developed on that and I know Chris has has used that in some of his searches and uh you know we got to get with locals and say you know when when do you when do things start buding out?
>> Yep.
Um going back to the scenario the a scenario like in the summer case where you've got someone who just went missing. You don't know if they're alive. You don't know if they're passed.
You don't know if they've been in that in just the past few days potentially a shallow grave or something that scenario. What was your when you and you came here? So you were here boots on the ground, Gene, in that scenario when you're coming up with a strategy with your drones. You guys are like, "Okay, this is going to be our this is how we're going to approach this case." How were you thinking through that? What was your what was your thinking in a case like this where hardly anybody knew anything? She just disappeared.
Well, we start out with virtually nothing, you know, other than hearsay.
And we try to find out the LKP, the last known place.
And if we have a last known place, then we basically draw a circle two miles.
And we try to cover that two miles as thoroughly as we possibly can. Because for instance, in the case that first case that I did for Tim Miller, the guy had been missing for 6 months and he was 900 ft from his front door.
>> Wow.
>> And I can't tell you how many cases that I've been on that the individual was within 100 ft of their last known place and just got missed for various reasons.
Mhm.
>> So that's our starting strategy.
>> You're taking last known location, you're drawing that radius, and then you're literally mapping out all the land. You're doing a mapping mission.
>> Y >> is is your mapping um how about the use of technology? What technology do you use when you get started? Is it always the same or do you choose it based on the case? When I say technology, I mean like high resolution imagery, thermal, you know, near infrared, like do you how do you choose what you use in in a particular scenario?
>> Well, our go-to is always going to be RGB, which is high resolution still imagery.
>> Okay?
>> Because if we do our mapping correctly, we have 100% coverage.
And for example, Google Earth can be up to 18 months old.
You can look at Google Earth and get an idea of what the the geography looks like, but when we do it, it's minute time. It's not real time, but it's minute time. And we get a very good representation of what the geography looks like right now.
So forewarned is forearmmed.
We can tell searchers what they're going to be encountering. obstacles that they could be getting into. So, we use it as a resource management tool initially.
>> Okay.
>> As we're going through the pictures though, if anything pops out at us, for example, if we happen to know what they were wearing and it's something that we can use locate for to to scan those images, we're going to do that for sure.
And then we have to kind of dial in the human aspect of it. ease of access.
If there's foul play involved, typically whoever the perpetrator is, they want to take the path of least resistance.
So, we look at access, you know, what's easy to get into and easy to get out of.
And then one of the things that my wife helped me get ingrained with was trace evidence.
Trace evidence could be a set of footprints through the dirt >> or a car track in a field that doesn't belong or some very benign thing that you would never ever consider out of context with the case.
>> So, you're also looking for things that just don't make sense, things that stand out.
>> Exactly.
>> Okay. Wow.
>> Look for things that don't belong in the image.
What can So, I'm gonna ask I I want to follow up on that, but um the Real Rock and Robin just asked if you guys are willing to speak on this. It's just like I said, a lot of our viewers are really interested in this case. And Real Rock and Robin's asking, "What do you think Chris and Jean, if Summer was near her home, do you think she would have been found due to the massive searches?" I mean, you guys were there, you saw the searches. Do you think with that volume of searches and the amount of effort you put into it, she would have been found if she was within that radius, >> Chris?
>> Um, I think that's a great question. I was sitting here looking at that question before you even brought it up.
Um, >> the thing is is for anyone who's ever, you know, you can pull up on Google Earth and and look at Beach Creek, and Jean can attest to this. You can look at Beach Creek on maps. Google Earth. You can look at it in images, but until you actually get out in this area, there's it's hard to comprehend how massive, how thick these woods are, how mountainous this terrain is, how much area there is to cover. Um, I, you know, I don't want to speculate on anything, but it's I think it's hard to sit and say 100% that every, you know, no matter how many searchers you have out there, Jean said it, you know, not long ago, sometimes you find people right near their homes that that have just been passed up because, you know, it it's it's just a lot that goes into it and and the terrain out there is it's horrible.
>> Speaking of the terrain, so this was June 2021 and if you look at let's actually take a look to just to emphasize Chris's point like it's it's it is crazy. It for anyone who has not driven through that area um just to give you a little bit of insight into what Jean and Chris were up against here. Um, I want to make sure I do Google Earth Pro. There we go.
So, and I'm going to I'm going to pitch this so you guys can see the kind of the elevation. Hold on.
>> A lot of vertical geography.
>> Look at that. Yeah, exactly. Look at that.
I mean, look at that. And so you guys are talking about a radius around this property, all of this all of this mountain side. And so my my first question is this was June and and we had just had we just had that discussion about foliage and how much harder it is with foliage. So does that number one does that change your confidence level about the search during June? Number two, was your strategy did you guys go back at any point when the leaves were gone and try try additional aerial searches? If you could talk about >> Yeah. Um I I would be glad to touch on that. Um so the thing was is when when Equarch left um you know me and Gan we got together uh Jean Gan helped me uh helped me move forward with my organization and get everything up up and started. And at that point I was able to to speak with CNC investigations um and which those are the PIs that was working closely with the wells and uh I wanted to continue to be involved with this case. I'm right here. I'm just a few minutes down the road. So um you know why not continue to work on this case as much as possible? So, I got with CNC Investigations and the goal was to get out to Beach Creek as much as possible. Um, not through not just uh as the summer went on, but when the fall came and the leaves fell. Um, you know, all winter. Um, and we continued to do that um for several years. Um, just continued to fly as much as possible.
Um, and the the biggest thing was fly as much technology as we could um near infrared um RGB and just uh map as much of the area as possible. And sometimes I would send some of those images to Gan and I would call him and I'd say, "Hey, what do you think? Can you can you run these images as well?" Um it it never hurts to have multiple people looking at it, right? And uh so my thing is is uh until summer's found, there's no reason to stop looking.
>> And you know, it breaks my heart that we've went this long and and that we have no answers. Um but as long as she's missing, I I will continue to help.
>> I think what's amazing, too, is a lot of people because you don't hear about it.
You guys see it. Is it CNC Investigations? Is that his organization?
>> Uh CNC Investigations. Yes.
>> CNC Investigations. Uh and you and I'm sure probably others you guys have worked with. People wonder, are people still searching out there? I mean, they we're online, so they see us doing the best we can, but we're not doing probably a quarter of what you guys have been doing out there. This has been since day one, right? I mean, you you and CNC Investigations have been working on this since day one, and you haven't stopped.
>> No. No. Um this uh you know we were in constant contact uh you know trying to think of more areas where we could fly um where we could get get permission to go you know what can we do um and you know fly those images run them through locate that Jean talked about earlier and see if we could get a hit if we could get a hit you know go out and clear it. Um that's the biggest thing.
Uh yeah. So we didn't, you know, no [clears throat] one really heard about it because >> the thing is is at that point there was no reason for me to to run around and and tell everybody uh you know what we were doing. It was all about business and you know the the goal was to find something to find um anything that would help find summer um anything uh anything at all. So, you know, uh, we we did we worked uh we worked together for a long time and, you know, I've got to give them credit that those, you know, the PIs that worked with them, they they've never gave up. They put in a lot of time. They put in a lot of effort. Um, and I I truly appreciate all of the help that that they've put in.
>> So, from the sound of it, you've got Jean is sort of has been your mentor up until now. Gan, have you been as needed kind of helping Chris out with when he hits an area that he's like, "Hey, I'm look in this in this particular case.
Are you still helping him out with looking through uh imagery, doing analysis, stuff like that?"
>> Well, it's on an as needed basis, obviously. I mean, Chris is has learned fast and learned well.
>> Yeah.
>> And uh you know, if if he runs into any snags, of course, I'm always a phone call away and and I can help him. And one of the things that I've advocated from the very beginning of this is that go back and reimage the areas because uh and the buzzword is change analysis.
Um I believe in tech the technology and the development of technology that even an RGB image just a straight old photograph if you take pictures of the same area enough time change analysis will develop to the point >> oh wow >> where we'll see something that comes out may not be obvious to us right now the good example is look at the DNA analysis that has finally started to emerge as a way to solve cold cases.
I think the same thing is going to happen with the imagery that we collect, all of it, whether it's near infrared, RGB, thermal, uh, look at it, you know, and and in and the full context and especially with AI now that it's starting to to come on board.
>> Yeah.
>> We're going to see a lot more data gleaned from stuff that has been sitting there for years. So, do you think in a case like this that it's been five years, but do you think it's worth remapping now then with latest and greatest drones, seeing if there's that the uh the ground analysis that you're you're describing, seeing if you can find it. Is it worth redoing it at that at this point? There's a new sheriff in town, by the way, and so this may be something that he even considers. Um, is it worth it in your professional opinion, Jean, to redo that mapping?
Well, until you bring them home, is it worth it? Well, yeah, certainly it is.
Uh, you reach a point of diminishing returns when, you know, you've gotten you've exhausted everything that you could do at the moment, but >> do you ever forget? I mean, no, you don't.
>> I I should rephrase my question. Do you think that it would increase the possibility of finding something?
Technically, does it improve your odds going over it and over it? Does it improve the odds?
>> Not now.
>> Okay.
>> But it may later as technology develops and becomes more mature to be able to look for change analysis.
How many people thought that, you know, a strand of hair that they held in some evidence file for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years would be able to be analyzed and solve a crime.
But it happened. [snorts] And I think the same thing is going to happen with the data that we collect from drones.
>> That's amazing if you think about it because you're kind of documenting the history of this is evidence. What you're documenting is evidence and then you use newer and newer technology to analyze that evidence. And someday it makes sense because if I'm understanding correctly, the change analysis you're talking about would be you got a patch of a a mapped out area and then you're comparing that three years ago, one year ago, five years a five years ago and actually doing an indepth like detailed granular here are all the differences and that could actually tell you something.
>> It could it very well. Well, >> you have to have a vision that it's going to continue.
>> That's amazing. That's amaz You probably get a lot of anom anomalous data like somebody's put in a new garden, people have built new structures, right? Like you're getting all kinds of noise, but I guess you have to filter out the noise, right?
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> Uh, good question from Kiki. Were you guys uh when you're in the area on this case, were you denied access?
>> Um >> Oh boy, that'd be stretching my memory.
Chris, you're going to have to fill that one in.
>> Yeah. Um I that may be something uh you know, if if we could talk to CNC Investigations. uh they done a lot of the uh the access request um the property request talking to owners. Um I I think they may be able to tell you a little bit more about if anything was denied as far as searching. Um but as far as the the properties that that me and Jean searched and as far as the properties that I've flown since, um I've never been told on any of those properties, hey, we we don't have access to to go here. So, >> okay. And I will tell you all from my experience going in this area and talking to locals. Here's what I've heard that makes me think that Chris and CNC probably had more access is the land owners will say YouTubers, no, you're not going to fly over my property. But one property owner said, I had this guy, he was a professional drone drone guy. I had no problem with him flying. So, probably they had more access than most people. I think locals are willing to help if if your goal if your clear goal is to find that that child doing whatever you possibly can with the skills you have. Right. So, >> Right.
>> Well, having a drone fly over your property is a hell of a lot less intrusive than having a hundred people stomping through your garden.
>> Right. Yep. Yep.
>> Um there was a question from I don't know, you guys don't have to answer this. This is a very recent This is probably for you, Chris, and you you can just say I don't want to comment, but uh have you been in the near near around the Van Hill? Have you done any work around the Van Hill Road area? Because that was the most recent TBI search, >> right? Um with searches being so recent, um you know, it's I I try to uh I try to veer on the the side of caution and and not really talk about um some of those things. you know, some of the the searches that me and Gene did were were years ago, right? Um, so, but searches that are are very recent, um, you know, I prefer not to not to discuss those.
>> Yep. Good answer. I appreciate that.
Makes sense.
Uh, do not ever tell them you have been on Do not tell them you have ever been on the tube, Chris and Jean. Too late.
It's out there. Sorry, guys. [laughter] Me and Jean have been everywhere together. I'll tell you that. I feel like so much.
>> People People said they've seen you on interviews, Chris, too. I mean, you guys have done interviews in the past, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Any interviewer that I do on YouTube, I usually like to have Jean by my side.
>> Yeah. [laughter] [snorts] Uh do you want >> Go ahead.
>> Earlier on in the live, uh Jean, someone had asked about your book. um you know would you like to just quickly give them the name of your book or maybe put it down in the comments or uh so everyone would know what uh what your book is.
Yeah, it was uh I think I wrote it in 2012.
Uh it's called first to deploy and it's my motto today and I still use it and I think Chris has even adopted it. But uh as far as I'm concerned, a drone should be the very first asset to be deployed.
>> Yep.
>> Simply from it doesn't if it's a crime scene, it doesn't taint it. Uh it gives you a high resolution recorded snapshot as soon as possible that your analysis can begin. And that way you know nothing has changed since whoever the person went missing or whatever occurred. So that's the name of the book and that's how I came by it first to deploy.
>> I'm trying to find it. How can people find your book?
>> Uh it's if you look at SQS News, it should be there as well.
>> Okay, great. I'm going to put their link their website's link in the in the comment in the >> You may have to dig for it a little bit, but uh I it's been floating out on the internet for so long. [laughter] I'm sure somebody's got a copy of it somewhere.
>> Well, I found a link in commercial UAV UAV news that may help people find it.
This is a this is a synopsis of Jean's book.
Um, >> and and I will have to >> Oh, no, that's a different one. Have you written other books, too? Looks like >> Well, I've written papers.
>> Okay.
>> But, um, I got to tell you, the first book wouldn't have been readable if it wouldn't have been for my wife.
[laughter] She was my editor.
>> Yes, of course. Um, other cases, is there other cases, Jean, that you I know so one of the I'm sure one of the reasons that it's hard for you to to do that the the level of analysis now. And thankfully, Chris has learned how to do that kind of u, you know, visual analysis of the drone footage because you're busy. I mean, you still search even today. You're still active.
Uh yeah, I generally if I'm called on a local area search, I will go and if it's, you know, if Tim asks me, I I try to go.
>> Is it frequent? Are you working quite a bit?
>> More than I would like. Let's put it that way.
I just notched 70 this past January, and I'd like to slow down a little bit.
>> Wow.
I I got to tell you, I am curious.
You're you're a lifelong you've done this your whole life. This is this has been a passion of yours. You've invested time. Sounds like from the articles I've read, you've invested your own dime like this is something that you invest your own money and time into. Has it been like does it stay like that? Is that just the way it is when you're in this field? You just you have to do it that way and that's it.
>> Yeah. I I keep telling people when I fell out of that tree, I hit a hundred branches on the way down and uh it caused, you know, something bad to happen here. But uh yeah, I I call it collecting heaven points. You know, you you do >> you do it because it's the right thing to do, you know.
>> Would you if you could go back and do anything, would you do anything other than this? If if let's say something else out there you you knew you were you were guaranteed you you had a crystal ball and and God gave you the choice.
I'm going to go do that. You could have made whatever amount of ungodly money doing this commercial thing or you could go down the same road and do it again. What would you choose?
>> Boy, that's a tough question. And I've always kind of not had a rearview mirror.
I just keep looking ahead and I know that uh the technology is going to keep advancing and and that's been my focus and I've been just so engrossed in in helping develop that technology and advocate for drone use that I I don't know anything else.
And you know it's it's kind of a trick question too though because if you think about it the legacy your legacy the amount of you amount of people like Chris amount of people who want to go down that same road and you've laid this foundation that people can learn from technology people can use uh teachings books you know imagine when you're gone how many people in the future are going to find more missing people even more missing people because of the work and the foundation that you've laid. What a legacy, right?
>> I hope. I hope. And you know, I like I say, I've trained a lot of people and and I kind of look at it as six degrees from Kevin Bacon.
>> Yeah.
>> When [laughter] when one of those people find that I've you know, I've taught or I've given some knowledge to it, it makes me feel very gratified. And um it does something to you. I I think Chris can probably corroborate this, but I told him at the time, I said, "Be careful for what you wish."
Because when you make that first find and when you do bring closure to that family the first time, it does something to you that just makes you want to keep doing it.
>> Cost be damned. You know, just go, you know.
>> We have a we have a really good friend.
His name is Vernon Schirtz. He does the same thing you do, but it's with UAV.
It's underwater drones, sonar, things like that. He said the same exact thing.
He said, "Ryan, you wait until you bring that first person home to their family and you're going to get the bug. You're going to get the bug." And it's so true.
And it's uh it's just, you know, you you want to I think I think it's motivating to see your story because it's like what a good place to be at that point to have been able to help that many. If you think about can you even count how many families you've helped in your lifetime find their missing person?
You know, I've been asked that question a couple of times and I I know I've got what I attribute the drones to 30 direct either saves or recoveries.
>> Wow.
And I don't I don't even include what we call trace evidence, you know, where we actually pointed resources in the right direction and they made the recovery test. You know, I'm I'm very trying to be as purist in my data saying the drones actually did this and that's it.
>> So, I mean, that's a start, but how many missions I've been on, I couldn't even guess.
Um after obviously after that first find for um uh Tim Miller and Texas Equaarch, he rode me like a rented mule. I mean I I that I've been up to six different countries now and 37 different states.
[gasps] >> That's amazing. That is amazing. Um, I've got a tough question here for you guys because I don't even know if this is a possibility. I I I'm assuming not.
But if someone is not underground but in concrete, there's nothing we can do from the air, right?
>> If I see a block of concrete, we're going to go look at it. [laughter] >> Does would thermal do anything? Because you you do have gases escaping somehow through the porous material. Do you think thermal might give off some Well, you you got to look at the cure rate of of concrete and it is I think it's called an exothermic reaction that it does produce its own heat and if it is still putting out heat, we're definitely going to go look.
>> Yeah.
>> Because that means it was relatively fresh and new. And then >> that's when your sonar guys and your your folks that can do, you know, um non-destructive testing and that sort of thing come in there with their sonographs and, you know, say, "Hey, there's a cavity in here, so we need to crack this block open."
>> You know what I what I love about talking to people who are passionate about their tool of choice in searching for the missing is that's the tool to use.
You know what I mean? And I agree. I actually agree with you and there's a guy named Butch who's gonna kill me for saying this, but I agree with you with first in because a drone can cover so much ground, the technology, you don't have to walk all that ground. But in in my opinion, the next step if you need to find something, the one thing that can find something in concrete, a dog.
>> Yes. I um Okay.
I have I have a very good dog that uh German Shepherd that his nose is the most incredible thing I've ever seen.
>> Yeah. So, >> is he a working dog?
>> Uh he was. He's not now. Uh he's he's my working dog.
>> Oh, that's amazing.
>> He keeps me sane.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. But Butch man up in Pennsylvania, he's he's helped us start uh training.
Our dog just got certified LA a couple weeks ago. HRD and uh live tracking and watching those dogs, especially the experienced ones. It's some kind of magic. It's partial science, partial magic with that dog's nose and the number of nerve ending factory nerve ending. Oh my gosh, it's amazing to watch out work.
>> Yep.
>> Um Chris, >> yeah, >> I think it's probably about time we talk about your plans going forward. what you want to what you want to start doing, what we're going to start doing. Um, this is the kind of we're going to lead into the announcement, you guys, that I've been teasing along all of all of uh the the promotions for this live. So, go ahead and share kind of plans for what you're doing and uh we'll take it from there.
>> So, I know after this live there's probably so many questions going through people's heads. Um, uh, you know, a lot of questions that people still would like to ask me. Um, I'm going to give everybody the opportunity to do that.
Um, I'm going to be starting my own YouTube channel. Um, for a long time I was reluctant to do this, but I do think that, uh, you know, getting the names of missing people out there, and even if it's on a YouTube channel, um, it is definitely helpful. Um, Echoes in the Mountains is going to be something that uh that you know we we're going to talk about true crime, missing people, um, and of course Summerwell's case and some of my work that I've done on her case.
Um, you know, I I can't wait to get get with the community and uh you know, get to know people and um you know, work with Ryan and uh and see uh continue to work with with CNC Investigations and and hopefully uh you know, to continue to work on Summer's case as well as uh you know, talking on YouTube and and putting out videos for for the community to see.
It's exciting because Chris and I have talked about, you know, people that do that do cover these cases. You all know if you're in the true crime community, it's it's hard to it's hard for locals who if you tell them you're a YouTuber, for one thing, their first reaction is they think about all the YouTubers who will do whatever they have to. They'll post whatever they have to to kind of get clicks and views and they want to make money, right? And so if if you want to do the right thing and you want to cover this field, all aspects of search and rescue, and then you want to talk about specific cases, you know, Chris and I have had a lot of conversations late night about how can we do this ethically. And this is something that on our channel we talk about a lot is you there's some things you just you shouldn't talk about and you don't always know if you shouldn't talk about it. You're not law enforcement, but you have to use kind of like what's in the best interest of the public. What should the public know and what could cause harm? We don't get it right every time.
You have to kind of try to guess and say, "Okay, I heard this from local or we uh or you know, Chris, in your case, certain things that you learn from your flights or you learn from your investigations. I'm sure you may just decide, okay, this isn't going to go on YouTube. It's just something, you know, >> right?
>> Right. Differentiate between the two.
So, I'm excited about what you're doing.
I hope that the people you worked with up until now see uh how well you will do this. It's encouraging to see more people um just kind of tell their story because what you're telling your story about your your search, the future of your search and the work you want to do.
And I don't know what what motivated you. Let's talk about that. What motivated you to to kind of do this?
>> Um well uh you know everybody everyone has a story to tell, right? Um Jean told his story through his book, First to Deploy. Um I want to tell my story through through YouTube and through talking to the community and because not only do I want to tell my story, but I also want to help missing people. That's what it's all about. like I want to help families bring closure uh or bring closure to families. Uh that's that's what it's always been about from the very get-go was to to help bring closure to people who are suffering, they're hurting, you know, they they don't know where their loved ones at. Um, and my hope is that being able to uh to go to YouTube to talk on YouTube uh you know with different creators um and to put out content myself is that um you know we we broaden um the reach and you know we talk about these uh we talk about Leila, we talk about Summer um these are cases locally that you know um hopefully hopefully we can we can help Hey, you know what, Jean? You could help us out here. How many years have you known Chris?
>> Oh gosh. Well, since Summer Wells, >> that's when we first met.
>> So, you've known him for years. You've seen how he works. You've seen what type what type of what man he is. Probably you know more about his his ethics than people who haven't known him for five years. How do you feel? Do you feel like, you know, if he does this, he's gonna Do you feel like he's going to make the right choices and do the right things?
>> Well, first off, I got to give kudos to both of y'all for running a YouTube channel >> because it's a lot of work.
>> Yes. Um, I was going to do that myself years ago, but uh, when I got into it and I saw, you know, as we discussed earlier, those folks that are out there going for clicks and, you know, trying to monetize >> and sullied the name of anybody out there like you guys that wanted to do, you know, the community good >> that it it kind of put me off of my my prime focus. So, I said, "No, I'm not going to do that." But I know that that Chris and I've worked with him and ethically that's probably the most important thing that I could say about him is that he's got good ethics and he understands that there is sensitivities in what we do.
>> Uh there are things that you know unless you're absolutely sure you just don't want to say uh you don't want to give false hope and he has never done that.
he's been a realist uh and an optimist.
You know, obviously you have to be have to have a certain amount of optimism to do what we do. Um because you hope to bring that person home no matter how it happens. And uh I I think that Chris has got that spirit and uh you know if he does something to step out of line, I'll jump out there and spank him.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Thank you, Jean.
>> Yeah. So, there's a mentor here who's going to keep everyone in line. Let's just put it that way. [laughter] So, appreciate that, Gene. And hopefully, you know, along the way, um it's nice to know that there it's always nice to have a a bunch of people who are kind of who are experts in the various fields, the various aspects of search and rescue. So, knowing that, you know, you're available as a resource, too. and and when Chris is like, "Okay, this is a complicated scenario. You're kind of a good resource to make sure that stays on the right path." I think that I think that should make everyone feel better that that the right approach will be chosen and the right analysis will happen on each of these cases. So, appreciate everything that you still do in this field. I hope you continue doing it for a really long time.
I hope you continue doing it for a really long That's when you say, "Yes, I'm going to be doing this for the next 20 years." [laughter] >> Speak, Chris, go.
>> Um, yeah. Yeah, I definitely uh I thought we were talking about Jean.
Yeah, >> I am. I am. I'm talking about [laughter] I was talking about you, Jean.
>> Yeah. Um, I I hope to continue to do this for a very long time myself. Um, I've learned so much from Jean. Um, you know, I I want to continue to learn from Gan and continue to see what his research uh down in Texas brings to uh the drone search and rescue community.
Um, because I I I truly believe what Jean says when he says that uh eventually there's going to be um breakthroughs in some of this uh this research and it's going to help solve cases. Some of them even maybe like Summer's case.
Hey, Jean, if you ever do have a a breakthrough in research or something big like that that you'd want to talk about, just to kind of let people know, please let us know because we're going to be talking about this field a lot and we'd love to we'd love to cover that, too, because that's fascinating stuff.
So, >> I've got a few things up my sleeve that uh I'm working on and uh I've actually uh enlisted or been offered and I'm going to enlist some um help that is a lot smarter than me. Hopefully, we'll be able to pull some of this stuff off. And trust me, if I think it will help even one little bit, everybody's going to know about it. I'll be telling Chris, you everybody that I can think of.
>> That's fantastic.
Thank you again. Thank you for everything you do. Um, anyone who wants to jump on the bandwagon and start, you know, getting on watching Chris's searches, getting on his lives, I'm going to be doing. We're going to be the the announcement was the launch of his channel and Chris and I are going to be collaborating quite a bit. Um, especially at the beginning here. He just put the link to his channel in the chat. The link is also in the description. I also put Jean's organization, a link to that organization in the description. Um, Chris, I am looking forward to the searches and the lives. Uh, more discussions in the future on on your channel, my channel, wherever. We're just we'll bounce back and forth and and it'll it's going to be fascinating. It's going to be a lot of fun. And I can't thank you enough for being willing to to join forces and share what you have learned, what you know, what you can share with the community because in my opinion, the more the marrier.
>> We need more.
>> Agree.
>> I agree.
>> Thank you so much, Ryan.
>> Absolutely. Thank you guys for joining tonight. I will let you drop off. Any last words, Jean, that you want to say to the community?
>> No. Um, God bless you all. You know, that's the main thing. The our maker will provide the truth. All we have to do is keep our eyes open to see it. And uh I wish you and I wish Chris very well. And I'll be happy to weigh in.
I've got an opinion on just about everything. So, >> awesome. Thank you.
>> Let me know if if I can contribute in any way.
>> That'd be great. Thank you. What about you, Chris? Any last words?
Um, just, you know, once again, I I can't thank Jean enough. Um, he's he's done so much so much for me. Um, the knowledge that he's brought to the table. Um, man, I mean, I I could get emotional sitting here just talking about it. The knowledge that he's brought to the table >> is just it it you cannot put any amount of money on that and and I truly appreciate it.
>> Awesome.
>> You're welcome, Chris.
Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Jean. Um, and till next time, have a great night.
>> Good night, y'all.
>> All right.
All right, guys. That uh is the in my opinion, there's so much more we could have dove into when it comes to uh drone search SAR technology. Of course, we had the best of the best here with uh the pioneer of drone SAR technology. Um I'm excited. I'm excited to see where Chris goes with his channel. I think it's going to be a amazing adventure, amazing ride. Uh we're going to go on a lot of searches together. Um but keep an eye on Chris because he's been on he has been on this case since day one and no one can say he hasn't. he's just happening to to go on YouTube now and kind of share his story and uh share the searches and we're gonna uh we're gonna support him um and maybe have Jean on again sometime. But uh appreciate you all being here. I hope I got all the comments. I apologize if I missed anyone. Um coming up, I don't know what's coming up next, you guys. We have so much going on right now, so I can't give you any previews. I we do we are going to have the K9 seminar videos coming up. I've got the first day almost done. So, we're going to do that. That's coming out soon. Um, again, thanks to our guests for being here with us tonight. This was so much fun to talk about talk about this topic and geek out. Um, have a great night everyone.
Love you. Appreciate you. We will see you next time.
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