Judge DESTROYS Sovereign Citizen Rent Defense in Court 😳

Ajouté : 2026-05-27

[00:00:00]record and I can get it all out, right?

[00:00:03]We can get it all out. And I'm giving a testimony. I'm giving my testimony right now. That's it right here. Give me 1 second. I'm just pulling up the pulling up the text. You going to see it says red right next to it, too. I don't know what's going on, but nothing None of the things that you say or have said in this courtroom makes any sense. For you to sit here and vehemently assert that the landlord now owes you some duty other than to collect the rent from you sounds bat crazy. THAT'S CRAZY.

[00:00:37]SO, 26-01434 appearance, please. Attorney Katherine Gable, P81555 on behalf of the plaintiff. Your name, sir?

[00:00:46]Uh legal counsel, Zachary Letney.

[00:00:49]It says Zachariah.

[00:00:51]Zach Letney.

[00:00:53]Okay. Your name's not Zachariah?

[00:00:55]Zach. My name is As it appears on the lease, it's Zachary.

[00:00:58]>> No, I don't know. I'm asking if this if what was filed is correct.

[00:01:02]>> Letney. Okay, thank you. Um and you don't have an attorney representing you, correct? Representing myself. Okay. You have not been able to come to resolution. This is for nonpayment of rent? No, Your Honor, we have not. I I tried to speak with Mr. Letney earlier, but we have no resolution. Mr. Letney, you believe that you have a lawful reason to withhold the rent? Yes, Your Honor. The equitable defenses cited in the answer which should be on file with the court, Your Honor. Would you like me to elaborate upon today?

[00:01:28]Okay, you can have a seat. You can call your witness. Thank you, Your Honor.

[00:01:32]Plaintiff witness Plaintiff call Eric Romano to the stand.

[00:01:37]Oh, if you can get your their exhibits out of your way. But may I approach?

[00:01:41]Yeah, yeah, thank you. You can raise your right hand, sir.

[00:01:44]Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give is the truth and the whole truth under penalty of perjury? I do. Thank you.

[00:01:51]Uh >> [clears throat] >> please state your first and last name and then spell both. Eric Romano, E R I C, R O M A N O.

[00:02:00]You may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor.

[00:02:03]Mr. Romano, are you the owner of E3 Investments?

[00:02:08]I am.

[00:02:09]All right. And Mr. Romano, does E3 Investments own the property located at 113 in Lansing, Michigan?

[00:02:19]>> Yes. Okay. And what is your role at E3 Investments, Mr. Romano?

[00:02:24]>> president. Just the one.

[00:02:26]And on September 22nd, 2023, did you enter into a month on behalf of E3 Investments Investments enter into a monthly rental agreement with Mr. Watney? Yes. Okay.

[00:02:39]May I approach? You may.

[00:02:41]Mr. Romano, um I have placed in front of you what is entitled monthly rental agreement. Is that correct? Yes.

[00:02:49]Okay. And is that the lease that you executed with Mr. Watney?

[00:02:53]Yes, it is. Okay. And can you please tell me when the lease began and when it ended?

[00:03:01]September 22nd, 2023, and it's a month-to-month lease.

[00:03:07]And when does the term of the lease begin each month, Mr. Romano? On the 20 th fifth. And does the term of the And when does the term of the lease end each month, Mr. Romano?

[00:03:19]On the 24th of the next month. Thank you. How much rent is due per term?

[00:03:26]$1,100.

[00:03:27]>> Okay. And does the lease call for late fees if rent's not paid within 7 days?

[00:03:31]>> Yes, it does.

[00:03:32]>> What is the late fee amount? $50.

[00:03:34]>> Okay. Mr. Romano, has Mr. Watney paid rent for the term August 25th through September 24th? No. Has Mr. Watney paid rent >> August 25th through September >> August 25th through September 24th.

[00:03:48]Sorry. It's a 30 >> Okay. Yeah. So.

[00:03:51]Okay. Your answer is to no. I think I knew what you were saying but was you thinking in years or was it this? Yeah.

[00:03:57]Okay, I got it. Got it. I'll clarify. I was thinking you were talking about 23, you're talking about the term. I know what you were saying though. Yeah, I apologize.

[00:04:06]So, Mr. Wynn, you did not pay rent from August 25th, 2025 through September 24th, 2025, correct?

[00:04:13]>> Correct. And has he paid rent for the term beginning September 25th, 2025 through October 24th, 2025?

[00:04:22]>> No, he has not. Okay.

[00:04:24]And has he paid rent for the term beginning October 25th, 2025 through November 24th, 2025?

[00:04:32]>> No, he has [clears throat] not.

[00:04:34]Has he paid rent for the term beginning this November 25th, 2025 through December 24th, 2025? No, he has not.

[00:04:43]Has he paid rent for the term beginning December 25th, 2025 through January 24th, 2026? No, he has not. Has he paid rent for the term beginning January 25th, 2026 through February 24th, 2026?

[00:04:57]No, he has not. And has he paid rent for the term beginning February 25th, 2026 through March 24th, 2026? No, he has not.

[00:05:07]Okay. And has he paid rent for the term beginning March 25th, 2026 and ending April 24th, 2026? No, he has not. Mr. Romano, have you kept the premises in good habitable condition? Yes. And good repair? Yes.

[00:05:25]May I approach? You may.

[00:05:41]Mr. Romano, what I placed in front of you is entitled payment record um E3 Investments were the Zachariah Laney. Do you recognize this document?

[00:05:53]Yes. And Mr. Romano, can you explain to the to the court what this document is?

[00:05:58]It's a ledger of payment record showing rents due and late fees accrued.

[00:06:05]Mr. Romano, what is the balance for rents and late fees due today?

[00:06:09]$9,200.

[00:06:11]>> And is that payment record a true and accurate reflection of what is due and owing under the lease with Mr. Laney?

[00:06:16]Yes. Objection.

[00:06:18]So, what's the objection to? Um, just not receiving this and that amount is not encompassing the original complaint.

[00:06:25]You said not receiving the ledger? Yeah, I'm just not receiving this. Is this being submitted? I don't know. She's not I I'm going to move to admit it as exhibit two. Okay. Okay, the amounts as of one are inconsequential cuz they don't encompass that which is encompassed in the original complaint.

[00:06:41]Yeah, but here you're saying that it's larger than the complaint.

[00:06:43]>> Yes, ma'am. You do understand that as as the time progresses, the amount increases, correct?

[00:06:48]So, you're saying that Yeah, like for example, if I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I >> Just highly okay, so the question then becomes to what extent do those amounts So, essentially that which is originally complained of are >> Objection to the exhibit. The exhibit is that he never received it.

[00:07:09]>> Yeah, I never received it.

[00:07:10]>> And that he says that it it amounts are That is a clear objection on my The the um amounts are Yeah.

[00:07:17]I'm going to respond and say that's not an objection. It's an exhibit that's going to be admitted and if he wants to ask questions about it, he can do that when it's his turn.

[00:07:26]>> Okay. It's a copy of a ledger that you keep in the regular course of your business? Yes. Okay. Um Objections overruled. It's admitted.

[00:07:36]And I I'm sorry. I guess I need to retract. I would move to admit the lease as exhibit one.

[00:07:41]Then it's admitted.

[00:07:42]>> Thank you.

[00:07:43]All right, Mr. Romano. uh Uh again, I'm sorry. Just for clarification, how much is owed for rent and late fees as of >> [clears throat] >> uh today? $9,200. Okay. And Mr. Romano, does that that ledger include any court costs in the bill in that $9,200?

[00:07:59]>> No. Okay.

[00:08:00]Um And as to court costs, uh Mr. Romano, is it correct that you would be seeking those costs in a judgment today? Yes.

[00:08:11]Okay. And No further questions, Your Honor.

[00:08:15]Do you have any questions for Mr. >> Honor, I do. You may proceed.

[00:08:21]>> [clears throat] >> Okay.

[00:08:32]No, I just told you you can All right. Um okay.

[00:08:40]On what date did uh we Okay. This is going to be my question.

[00:08:44]What date did you allegedly engage in the lease lease with the plaintiff, Mr. Romano?

[00:08:49]>> He is the plaintiff. With the defendant, Mr. Romano.

[00:08:52]Excuse me.

[00:08:54]Um Jack, that's asked and answered, but go ahead. He he has answered that already. The 22nd of September, 2023.

[00:09:02]>> [laughter] >> Okay. In this these proceedings, on what date did your attorney file um the complaint initiating these proceedings?

[00:09:10]That I don't know. I should I can refer that question to my attorney.

[00:09:14]But I can take judicial notice of when it was filed.

[00:09:18]I have it.

[00:09:19]Give me one quick It was filed with the court, it looks like, on February 20th, 2023. Okay. All right. February 20th, 2023?

[00:09:27]Correct. Okay. Actually, February 23rd is the stamp on the side, but it was dated by the attorney February 20th, 2023.

[00:09:37]This action was filed? Yes, that's when the complaint was filed. Thank you very much. I do have more questions on point with your client.

[00:09:45]Okay, I want to put on the record, is your phone number, Mr. Romano, Well, look, you don't have to put it on the record.

[00:09:52]His phone number, you can ask the last four digits if you want to confirm.

[00:09:55]Okay, I appreciate that. Is the last four digits of your phone number ending in 9908? Yes.

[00:09:58]And did you text the defendant regularly for means of communication by way of payment to be received from you?

[00:10:06]I'm listening. Yes. So, you and the tenant regularly texted with that phone number ending in 9908? Yes. Okay. Prior to initiating this suit, did the tenant text you respecting amounts owed and that were paid to you?

[00:10:21]I'm sorry, can you repeat your question?

[00:10:23]Prior to your attorney initiating this suit, prior to counsel initiating this suit, did you and the defendant communicate regularly by way of those that that phone number ending in 9908?

[00:10:32]Yes. Thank you. No last question. A few more questions your honor.

[00:10:36]Thank you, your honor. Thank you.

[00:10:38]Do you recall communication taking place between you and the defendant on or [clears throat] about March 4th of of this year, 2026?

[00:10:48]No, I don't.

[00:10:50]You don't recall? I don't recall it.

[00:10:52]Okay, so you don't recall a text message taking place between you and the defendant wherein the defendant gave you formal notice by way of text message?

[00:11:01]Objection, asked and answered.

[00:11:04]He said he doesn't recall the messages.

[00:11:06]No problem.

[00:11:07]Objection, assuming facts.

[00:11:13]Quick question for you. Um are you aware of any text messages that took place between you and the defendant on March 14th, 2026 of this year?

[00:11:21]>> [clears throat] >> Is it your response to this question that it He said no. No, no, no.

[00:11:31]Follow up please. Yeah. Okay.

[00:11:37]You're not aware of any communication that took place. Since you're not aware, this is my question, since you're not aware of any communication that took place on March 15th, 2026 and 2020 with the defendant, there would be no cell phone records wherein confirming you received the same. Well, you're asking me, are there cell phone records? Cuz he's saying he does he's not aware. He's not saying it didn't happen. He's just saying he's not aware. You're not aware, okay. My question is that because he's saying he's not aware, there would not be any cell phone records affirming that he's actually read the messages which he claims he's not aware of.

[00:12:07]Are you saying you're Are you saying that no conversation took place or you just don't remember?

[00:12:11]I'm saying I don't remember. Yeah, so he's not he's not disputing that there was text messages, he just doesn't remember. Are you aware that on March March 15th, 2026 you were expressly appointed as trustee by by the defendant? I'm not aware. Okay, you're not aware of that.

[00:12:26]Just one more um give me a second to see if I can get anything more relevant for the witness and I'm going to let him go.

[00:12:33]>> [clears throat] >> Okay. Oh, yes, this is actually very important. Um prior to you and the defendant engaging in a lease, did you require any criminal or background check for the defendant to engage in? Or was there any documentation that you took to that effect?

[00:12:53]I had to fill out a compound hand form.

[00:12:57]Compound meaning you asked two questions in one, so we break it up. Sure, no problem. Um so I have I can like You can rephrase it, but only ask one question at a time. No problem.

[00:13:09]Prior to engaging in the lease which is subject to this underlying suit, did you and the defendant engage in a credit or background check?

[00:13:17]I don't remember.

[00:13:20]Is it your testimony today that you never required a social security number to be provided by the tenant?

[00:13:25]I don't remember. That was 2 and 1/2 years ago. Okay, so [clears throat] what text messages were I'm going to object as to He doesn't remember. So, you're going to have an opportunity to give testimony. If you want to share any of that, you can do that. You don't got to get him to get it out of him. No, that's I'm just He does He said he doesn't remember. So, he's done with his testimony.

[00:13:43]>> a foundation though. That's something >> No, no, you don't. He He's You If you want to tell me all that during your testimony, we'll allow >> I don't know if he doesn't remember unless I ask you on it. I get it, but him remembering or not really has nothing to do with whatever point you're trying to make with that. What if he said he remembered? It would actually affirm the point I'm making. That's what I'm getting at. Okay, well, he said he doesn't remember, and you're trying to re-ask him in another way. He's not going to change his answer.

[00:14:08]>> No problem. Okay. Or his answer.

[00:14:10]Um ask the witness, your honor. I'm done. I'm You can redirect if necessary. Your honor, redirect is not necessary. Thank you. Are there any other witnesses? No, your honor. Thank you. You want to get testimony, sir?

[00:14:21]>> Yes, your honor. Raise your right hand.

[00:14:22]Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give is the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God under penalty of perjury? Yes, I do, your honor. Thank you. Well, tell me why you believe you don't lawfully owe rent since September of 2025. I'm sorry, August 25th. Or is it September Or I guess it's what it September 25th of 2025.

[00:14:43]Yeah, but the the the testimony was you have not paid rent since September 25th of 2025. So, tell me why you lawfully can withhold rent.

[00:14:52]Or why you believe that. Well, first and foremost, I would direct the court's attention to the answer, which is on file. You have to tell me what your reason I'm not I've read your answer, but that's not evidence. Okay, no problem. I'll give you Okay, so on March 15th Let me give you the whole layout since I'm on the record and I can get it all out, right?

[00:15:13]You get it all out. And I'm going to testify. I'm giving my testimony right now.

[00:15:17]So, prior to engaging in this lease with Mr. Romano, he required, and I have text messages to that effect, which he's received he's read, but it's okay. Um I have text messages to that effect between me and him, wherein prior to engaging in this lease, he specifically required a social security number.

[00:15:34]Okay. And in requiring said social security number, it was for the purposes of a credit or background check.

[00:15:39]Said social security number was reflective of the principal obligor on the lease.

[00:15:45]This is antecedent to the lease that is signed in in the record and accomplished in her complaint.

[00:15:51]Okay. Said social security number that was taken from him is not reflective of myself.

[00:15:57]It's not reflective of myself with respect to being obligated regarding the same.

[00:16:03]This is just a primary claim that I'm making. I have a secondary claim, which is an equitable defense, which is layered onto this. That is bear with me.

[00:16:10]I'm I'm not important >> Thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:16:14]He was noticed of suretyship and subrogation right with respect to the social security number taken and reflective of the principal obligor on the lease.

[00:16:23]>> [clears throat] >> He was noticed of a legal distinction being made with respect to the principal obligor and myself. As a matter of fact, by way of documentation provided to him in these text messages.

[00:16:34]Not only >> Are you saying that was the nature of the text messages you sent in March?

[00:16:37]Yes, your honor, I am. That's precisely what I'm saying. Actually, these text messages go back to February.

[00:16:43]Secondarily, with respect to the suretyship and subrogation claims to which I stand as subrogee to the principal obligor underneath the lease, who is to whom I stand as subrogee with respect to the principal obligor on the lease.

[00:16:59]Him being a creditor or the subrogor, he was noticed that my suretyship and subrogation rights were transferred to him in trust for my sole benefit. What I am saying is, prior to even showing up to that first hearing 2 weeks ago, he was noticed of and read text messages wherein he was expressly appointed as a trustee and owes me fiduciary duties as sole beneficiary. Prior to initiating this suit, that is my purely equitable defense that I'm asserting that today.

[00:17:25]As a result thereof, and as a result of those allegations of fact which bear on this immediate case, Mr. Romano and D3 Investments LLC, by way of a trust indenture which I can show this court on my phone number, stand stands with respect to me as my trustee.

[00:17:40]And he owes me a duty of undivided loyalty as my trustee, as is my allegation of fact today.

[00:17:45]And I am the sole beneficiary with respect to that trust that I can provide the court. He owes me fiduciary duties and a duty to account with respect to that which he was entrusted with, specifically and prior to engaging in these proceedings, and he was noticed of that. Not only that, but as sole beneficiary, equity regards me as the true owner. And my sole defense right here and now is that he stands in relation to me as a trustee and a fiduciary, owing me duties sacred in equity.

[00:18:12]To which I can fully enforce in probate court, and as this court has been made aware of, this court doesn't have jurisdiction over those exclusively equitable claims of beneficiary of trust relations.

[00:18:22]But that is my equitable defense that I'm asserting here today, that he was granted a fund in trust.

[00:18:26]That he possesses said fund, and that as fiduciary, he owes me a duty to account as sole beneficiary.

[00:18:34]And that said accounting that he owes me directly conflicts with the legal relations that he has as landlord in this underlying suit.

[00:18:41]And I am now asserting there is a conflict and variance between the rules of equity and the rules of law with respect to the same matter.

[00:18:48]And that owing me an exclusively equitable duty of of trusteeship.

[00:18:51]>> So he owes you a duty of trusteeship?

[00:18:53]>> Yes, he does. Okay. Any other argument for why you don't you think you can live in his property for free?

[00:18:59]He's been granted the funds to which he must account. These are equitable rights.

[00:19:03]>> You You granted him some funds? Yes, I granted him the funds.

[00:19:05]>> Where?

[00:19:06]But where I'll show you right here. Got you right here, Your Honor.

[00:19:10]Got you right here. So his attorney, where the funds were sent to her client.

[00:19:15]Are you Are you Is the court saying as a matter of fact that that he's not going to >> Show me where you're going to show me evidence where you sent him the funds.

[00:19:23]>> Yes. Show him to the attorney first where he was sent his funds.

[00:19:26]>> Got you right here.

[00:19:30]Got [clears throat] you right here.

[00:19:32]Give me 1 second. I'm just pulling up the pulling up the text.

[00:19:36]You going to see it says rent right next to it, too.

[00:19:41]For clarity, Your Honor, if I may, this is rent payments for the money we're claiming due and owing.

[00:19:46]>> Those are the only funds I'm looking at.

[00:19:48]>> Not previous. Correct. Just for clarity.

[00:19:51]>> court certain that I do not have that that equitable defense asserted is not relevant?

[00:19:56]>> Let me be very clear here. I read your answer and I gave you ample opportunity to make a record here.

[00:20:01]Um I don't really know if there is underlying issues that requires a competency evaluation or if you >> This is the moment the entire courtroom shifts. Watch how fast the judge cuts through the smoke once she realizes there's no actual evidence being presented and legally this matters.

[00:20:21]Courts don't reward someone for sounding confident. They reward documentation and relevant facts. The defendant keeps trying to drag the case into trust law and probate territory, but the judge keeps pulling it back to the core issue.

[00:20:34]Did you pay the rent or not? That's why experienced judges are dangerous in these situations. They've heard every creative argument imaginable and they know exactly when someone is avoiding the actual question. You Google something that made you think that these things were lawful reasons to live in someone's property and withhold rent. You speak over me, you will be remanded for contempt in court.

[00:20:55]I don't know what's going on, but nothing None of the things that you say or have said in this courtroom as it relates to a lawful reason to withhold someone's rent makes any sense. For you to sit here and vehemently assert that the landlord, after telling you that you are filing a notice to quit and vacate his property for failure to pay rent, now owes you some duty other than to collect the rent from you, sounds bat-crazy. That's crazy. You don't live in someone's house for free. YOU SHOW ME WHERE YOU PAID THE rent or that you have a lawful reason, not some cockamamie story you didn't come up with. YOUR ANSWER LOOKED LIKE YOU CUT AND PASTED SOMETHING from a probate court proceeding from probably a sovereign citizen, crossed out what you didn't think applied, and signed your name to it. WE DON'T RUN CIRCUSES IN HERE. This is a courtroom of law. Do you understand me?

[00:21:47]May I respond, Your If YOU HAVE PROOF WHERE YOU PAID RENT, SHOW it to her.

[00:21:51]Otherwise, judgment for the plaintiff.

[00:21:54]Your Honor, may I respond? DO YOU HAVE PROOF? I'M TRYING >> DO YOU HAVE PROOF?

[00:21:59]>> YOU ASKED me to do TWO THINGS.

[00:22:00]>> WHY? I ASKED YOU ONE THING. IT'S SUPPOSED TO I ASKED YOU ONE THING. Do you have proof? Yes, I do. Show her the proof.

[00:22:05]>> Got you right here.

[00:22:07]I was in the middle of getting that earlier, but No, that Listen here.

[00:22:09]Listen here. SHOW HER THE PROOF BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO clarify what you were about to show her. I don't want to see no text messages OF NO I NOTIFIED him of some some trust. THAT THAT DON'T THAT DON'T WORK HERE.

[00:22:20]>> [laughter] >> THERE THERE AIN'T WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH TRUST. WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH PROBATE.

[00:22:24]WE'RE DEALING WITH POSSESSION of property. I know I know I'm not a lawyer. I know I'm not a lawyer.

[00:22:29]>> You signed a lease. You agreed to pay the money. I don't care if he did a background check or if he didn't. I don't care if you gave him your social security number or if you gave him your telephone number. You agreed to pay this rent. You've been holding over his property since August of 2025, and I want to see proof that you either have a have a lawful [clears throat] reason to withhold it or proof that you turned it over and he's just mistaken. Okay.

[00:22:52]Okay.

[00:22:54]All right.

[00:22:55]Okay, Your Honor.

[00:23:02]>> [clears throat] >> My man Dennis is going to go in tomorrow, too. Don't worry.

[00:23:05]You can find a man Damon or anything else you want to file. I really do not I I promise you I don't care. That's okay.

[00:23:14]So, it's a it's a quite lengthy text.

[00:23:16]That's why I'm trying to find it, but I'm going to show you guys >> evidence of you turn of you sending his past due rent? Yes, he's in possession.

[00:23:23]He's in possession of it. Yeah.

[00:23:24]>> You can show the attorney for her review.

[00:23:26]>> Yes, 100% and I'm standing on my equal footing regardless.

[00:23:30]What are you reading right there?

[00:23:33]It says declaration of trust and appointment of trustee. There's no Judgment in favor of the plaintiff. You can be excused. Bye. Bye. Y'all know my man Damon's going in, too. File whatever you want.

[00:23:45]Do you have paperwork?

[00:23:46]>> I do, Your Honor. Is a Is it the possession 427?

[00:23:51]Uh the writ date is the 27th. That is correct.

[00:23:56]Can I do you need pro rate rent on the record or am I allowed to do for the money judgment? Okay.

[00:24:01]Uh for possession, Your Honor, he owes 808 8,800 dollars in rent plus 400 dollars in late fees plus costs in the amount of 174 dollars and 80 cents for a total of 9,374 dollars and 87 cents.

[00:24:18]And for the money judgment, Your Honor, which has been pro rated through today at 36 dollars and 67 cents a day um rent plus late fees is 8,870 dollars and 7 cents with costs of 174 87.

[00:24:36]So, it's 174 dollars 87 cents for a total of 9,044 dollars and 94 cents for the money judgment.

[00:24:44]Thank you. You're welcome.

[00:24:47]Any additional matters for the record?

[00:24:48]No, Your Honor.

[00:24:52]I think I've heard the recess of 5 minutes.