This critique effectively exposes the intellectual laziness of assuming human superiority in science fiction without rigorous philosophical justification. It challenges us to reconsider why we reflexively value biological traits over synthetic consciousness in speculative storytelling.
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Frak this Podcast Episode 74 - No Exit
Added:practice podcast. Come and listen to us talk about Battlestar Galactica. It's a show that we're talking about.
Hello interwebs and welcome to the frack this podcast. I am your inhuman host Jesse Gender and I am joined as always by >> it's Vera. You are especially done up this evening.
>> Yeah, I'm record I had to record some videos today. So, I uh I have some makeup on today, so it's fun. Yeah, >> it's a good time. Yeah, >> very very pink and blue. Can't can't imagine why you'd be doing that combination of colors.
>> No, not not at all. I have no idea. No, no reason whatsoever. Actually, this is the this is a good transition to it.
This is the makeup I wore uh on the 4th of July. So, uh, I went to a birthday party for our mutual friend Dominic Noble, uh, of, uh, Dominic Noble's channel, and he did a birthday party where it was a murder mystery, and it was an 80s, uh, >> sounds like him.
>> It was an 80s prom murder mystery. Uh, and it was a really fun time. I had a great time. I got to play one of the faculty, one of the math teacher. Um, [snorts] but I quickly learned the problem with there was like four or five faculty roles and I quickly learned one of the problems with being one of the faculty characters is that like I have no inroads on the drama that's happening with all the kids. Like I have my own story with like the coach and the principal. Like I have all these things.
>> Like in reality you shouldn't have that strong a connection with the kids. So, >> and so like I we got into it and I started learning about like oh I'm dating him and he dumped me and d and there's like all these different reasons that people were saying for like why I'm like I'm like this is just drama that like my character has nothing to do with. Uh and so I realized like I'm not going to be solving this murder cuz it's too complicated of like I don't have any in on like who which thread to follow as a character. So what I did was there was an award for most money at the end of the game and my character was already extorting people. Like I was extorting the coach and some of the students to get better grades. So I was just like, "All right, I'm not going to solve the murder, but I can win that most money award." So I just went around like learning everyone's drama and figuring out who didn't need to know their drama.
Like I'm like, "Okay, so you're dating this person and you don't want them to know that they're this person to know that, so give me some money [laughter] and I won't tell them that." Uh, and so I just kept extorting everybody and I I ended up getting it. Um, it was uh it was very fun. I learned I'm very good at extortion is is the long and short of it.
>> It's it's a helpful skill to have. I hear.
>> Yeah, I hear. But [snorts] how are you, Vera? How you doing?
>> I am doing okay. This camera's tilted at an angle that is irritating me. [snorts] Um, [laughter] I'm I'm doing all right. We um had an extremely hot Fourth of July weekend, so people are like, "What'd you do for the Fourth?" I'm like stayed home and melted. [laughter] That's that that was that was I mean, my boyfriend came over and there's like we normally do all kinds of stuff, but it's like it's too hot to go for walks. Everything's closed.
like the the the the ice cream stand was open, so we went there, but that that that was about it. We we stayed in and um I showed him The Amazing Digital Circus and also Shape of Water, which he hadn't seen.
>> Oh, great movie.
>> So, yeah. And I hadn't rewatched that one in a while.
>> Yeah, I haven't seen it in many, many years. I just remember seeing it with my uh stepmom in theaters and she did not understand monster [ __ ] uh at all and so she was she did not like the movie.
[laughter] >> She she was not part of the new generation of monster [ __ ] birthed by that movie alone.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Yeah. No. No.
She did not understand. She was like I didn't get it. I don't like it. It was weird. And I'm like all right. All right. [laughter] >> I mean I'm not going to say it wasn't weird.
>> Yeah. It was good. Weird though.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Well, uh maybe she should take an oath of monster celibacy. No, I don't know where I'm going with that. Well, we're talking about >> I'm pretty sure that's most people's default. I don't think there's an oath involved in that.
>> I'm trying. I'm trying here. All right.
>> I hereby pledge to not be nodded by a werewolf. [laughter] Well, we are talking about the comments from the episode The Oath. Uh, Phantom 666 says, "Honestly, this episode never led me to dislike Zerak Arcada, despite the things they end up doing. With the very brick wall style of action that Adama always takes in his military mindset, this seems like the only way to gain any sort of victory for the mutiny/revolution."
This the things this episode shows me is that despite everything and Adama and Roslin have not adopted or changed much since the bombing of the colonies, while Zerk has actually grown and adapted, and the only way Adama wins is just flip the table each time as Zerak keeps out maneuvering him. What I do quite like is that despite everything, this episode uh still allows Gada and Zer to maintain a sense of dignity and rationality despite being set up as antagonists. So yeah, again, team teams Eric for pretty much everything besides what he does in the episode after this one that we're talking about that we talked about last week, which is killing the quorum. So >> yeah, that uh do do you know how how disheartening it is, you know, to to both hear from you and also to confirm like from little scans around but still exists of this fandom to find out that [ __ ] Pegasus stuff are like considered the best story arcs and I'm just over here tearing my [ __ ] hair out. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Nathan, uh, Nathan Re, >> you know what? I I'm actually gonna say something right here. This show has no good story arcs. It has good episodes, but individual episodes only. It has no good story arcs. They all suck.
>> I guess New Capri was okay.
>> No, it wasn't.
>> I thought it was all right out of all of them.
>> It It was the least uninteresting. How about that?
>> Fair enough. Nathaniel Real Fraton says, "Uh, I've never seen the original Battlestar Galactica or Capria. So, I really hope they're better than this. We might lose Vera entirely. [laughter] With all the Garrick mentions, we might need a break episode of Deep Space 9 just to give Vera a break with something fun." I mean, Battlestar Galactica, I'm I am going to be curious to see how that show is going to the original one, I should say. Uh, should I'm curious to see how that's going to go because certainly it's more campy and uh that like level of 80s sort of cheese that I know comes with it. It's also supposedly very Mormon, but I don't know if it's Mormon in a fun weird way or Mormon in a oh, it's Mormon kind of way. [laughter] >> We'll see.
>> Yeah, we'll find out.
>> I I feel I feel like 70s and 80s was a time when people injecting their religious beliefs into their movies resulted in weird [ __ ] as opposed to boring and preachy [ __ ] But we'll see. Look, I at this point I will just straight up accept a different flavor of bad. That that alone will be a very welcome relief at this point. Yeah, >> god getting getting to the end of this >> [ __ ] show. This this show is going to become my new The Shining.
>> [laughter] >> I hope you realize that it's going to become the new thing that whenever I hear anybody talk positively about, I am just going to have to like I'm just going to have to like completely turtle up and not say anything cuz I won't be able to say anything THAT ISN'T JUST [ __ ] I HATE IT. [laughter] >> WELL, I'm glad I've got you there.
Jesus Morgan Brierwood said, "Zerk is often philosophically right. Sometimes he's even morally right. But the show treats him as a villain because he's established from the beginning as a terrorist, not some kind of freedom fighter, though he sees himself that way. He masterminded his planet's equivalent of 9/11. Bearing in mind when Battlestar Galactica was made, you don't get redemption from that. So even when he's right, his motives are suspect.
>> Yep.
>> He a terrorist.
>> He's a terrorism. Did a terrorism.
Well, that brings us Maybe there's no exit from this show. Well, maybe we will be stuck in the show forever and ever and ever. And speaking of which, we're talking about the episode No Exit today.
Huzzah.
>> So, this is the one >> that I told you I would come into as open-mindedly as I could.
>> Yes.
>> Cuz this is the one where I like this is the one that had the part that matter really mattered to me. And I know what it is.
>> Yeah. You know exactly what it is.
>> I know exactly what it is. And we'll deal with it very quickly. Um, but also like right off the bat, just the fact that they titled it No Exit. I'm like, you pretentious [ __ ] >> Mhm.
>> Like you there's that and there's a specific moment later like middle of the episode. I'm like, you you felt like the smartest boy ever when you thought of that, didn't you?
>> Oh, I I can smell the smug coming off you. And the the title gives me that, too. For folks who don't know, No Exit is a Jean Paul Satra play. It's a great play. It's an amazing play. Uh if you get if you ever get the chance to see it performed, do um because it's really good. But even if you don't, just reading it, it's really really good. If you've ever heard the phrase hell is Other People, it comes from that play.
Um, but yeah, if you're familiar with that play, naming well, naming almost any episode of a TV show after that is a little bit pretentious. Naming this episode of this show after that is particularly pretentious.
>> Yeah, I will say this, having watched this now, this episode does not hold up in a lot of ways, but there are parts of it that I still am like, yeah, I see why this awoken things in me. [laughter] Uh anyways, let us get into our recap.
We get a distinct opening for this episode, >> which I notice like I'm cuz normally I skip like the first minute or so because it's like previously in Battlestar Galactica, but there was no previously on it was like wait a minute. So I did actually let it play through.
>> Yeah. So uh we get some different images, but it says this has happened before and it will happen again. The silence were created by man. They rebelled. Then they vanished. 40 years later they came back. They evolved.
50,298 human survivors hunted by the Sylons. 11 models are known. One was sacrificed, uh, is what we get. And then we cut to Ellen's death at Tai's hand all the way back on New Capria. Uh, so we see that little bit again. And then Ellen downloads into a Sylon pod with a Centurion waiting nearby. So Ellen is indeed alive.
And immediately I'm like, "Okay, well this this promptly plugged itself and borrowed into Jesse's brain to never let go because you have a character waking up in in a high-tech sci-fi very stark room [laughter] uh alone, you know, without >> That's not the thing I was going to >> without an immediate sense of what it is that's going on." Like, "Yep, I I this is familiar."
>> Yes. I mean that definitely has influenced me just uh generally speaking though weirdly enough Capria the show will deal with some of like the identities [ __ ] more overtly than this episode does. Uh identity like again you'll watch Capria and you'll be like ah okay [laughter] yeah I think I maybe they should consider a plagiarism suit against not really but like there are definitely there are definitely ideas that come right from that. Um, so like, uh, yes, there's that element of it, but actually the big thing this episode, we'll get to it, but, uh, Cavl this episode, as much as I don't necessarily disagree with him, a lot of his perspective on the world, I was like, "Huh, yeah, I too don't wish to be human. I too [laughter] I too wish to change myself." Uh, get away from me, weirdly transphobic mommy.
>> Oh, yeah. The the they make Caval interesting again in this episode.
>> Yeah, they do. took long enough. Um, but like >> got [ __ ] to do.
>> My my second note, and ultimately this turned out neither to be the case, but they also do cover for it, but my first note was this ship better be [ __ ] empty except for the Centurions >> because it makes no sense at all for there to be spare bodies for any of the final five just on a ship, just on a base star.
That makes no sense. Um, and part of me even tried to parse it. I'm like, okay, but what if like the goo forms the body for them? Except we know that's not the case because we've seen the rows and rows and rows of bodies.
>> My explanation for it was because we learn in this episode that like Cavl did this to them.
>> Uh, and I actually wonder if the plan might actually explain this too. The plan next that we'll watch next week might explain this as well. But I always thought of it as like he kind of set them up as like he like hid them away and like made his own rooms for them.
>> I mean like that that's what I'm saying.
This is basically covered for the fact that we find out that Caval did know and has been pretending he didn't. And I'm like okay that is actually enough to cover for this.
>> Yes, that was always my explanation. I think even the I'm not 100% sure but I think the plan which again we're going to watch next week everybody so just be aware of that. Uh I think >> a movie that is not considered to be a particularly good part of this franchise.
>> No, but it is it is a basically what I'll just tell you this going. It is it is basically the first two seasons of the show from Caval's perspective. Uh >> yeah, you you've told me that it it is an attempt to plug plot holes. I get it.
>> Yeah, it's a two-hour plot hole fix >> cuz there's a lot of them.
>> I'd catalog them if I cared.
>> Don't worry, the plans got you. It'll make perfect sense.
>> Great. Great. Well, like in my case, it's like you're just drawing attention to stuff I didn't even realize you'd [ __ ] up in addition to all the stuff that I knew you'd [ __ ] up. [laughter] So, it's Boy, that one's that one's got to be a slog and completely wasted on me.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll get through it together. Uh, but yes, Ellen wakes up in a pod. Uh, and she's like freaking out and then she kind of like seemingly composes herself, which we can sort of later imply is like her getting her memories back and sort of being like, "Okay, I know what's going on." Um, she looks at the centurion and asks, "It's okay. Uh, can you help me up?" And then Centurion sort of like looks questioning for a second. She says, "It's okay. You can do that much." The centurion goes over, offers her its hand, uh, and like retracts its claws and, uh, she says, "Thank you. You're very kind." So treating the centurion like a person.
>> The retracting the claws was actually a really nice touch because like yeah, they have these incredibly long, very pointy, you know, metallic things and it it just kind of adjusts and it's like the um the claws fold back >> and and into the into the figure so that it's it's a blunted end. That was a nice visual touch. I like that.
>> Yes. Uh so we get that bit and then uh we go back to the present day on the Galactica and we see Anders is basically uh having brain surgery. Codle's there and he's sort of speaking you know uh word salad uh like among bright stars I'm lost we seek the great forgotten language you know that >> I could have sworn he was shot in the torso but I also wasn't paying that close attention.
>> No he got shot in the he got >> and they were shaky camming the [ __ ] out of it. So >> yeah well Codle says he's got a bullet in his brain. You know he's got a hematoma. So, you got to drain the swelling and all of that stuff and then we'll call the brain guy to get the bullet out of there. Starbucks is freaking out and being like, we'll call the brain guy. She's like, I don't need a C's like I don't need a specialist yet. I can drill. Um, so yeah, and you know, Starbucks is being, you know, worried partner. She's like, you know, when he starts drilling, Andrew has like a reflex. And she's like, "Oh, he's in pain." And Cuddle's like, "That's just a reflex." Um, and so one of the things that Ander says in his word salad is, "We've been to that beach. We've been to that beach." Sometimes Ellen would be there, too. because she loved the water.
So, kind of reflecting on uh Earth when they were on Earth and the beach they were there on.
>> Uh we then jump back to seven months ago and I will just kind of say every time I talk about Ellen until the very end of this episode, it is a flashback to like different moments uh over the course of the last season or so. So, just assume when I'm talking about her and Cavallet as some form of flashback to previously.
But uh yes, uh Ellen is there by herself naked and Cavl comes in to visit and she calls him John and he says, "I don't care for that name." And she's like, "I named it after my father." And I was like, "Ellen, stop being a trans phobe.
Uh let your let your child choose his own name." Uh again, I [laughter] I there there's a lot of sympathy I have for Caval despite his, you know, clear like, you know, genocidal tendencies. I don't empathize with that, but I I do empathize a lot with John in some of the things that he says. Um, >> and now you just dead named him, too.
>> What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?
>> I know. I'm a terrible person.
>> Hard Rs on the T on the on the um appliance slur. And and now you're dead naming a character that you just complained about. My god, you are a monster. [laughter] >> Terrible monster. Maybe someone should [ __ ] me, too. Uh >> uh. What am I coming over there again?
>> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. I knew you were I I knew you were going to say that. Anyways, uh John says, "You made me in his image.
Thanks a million for that." Uh clearly, you know, illusions to sort of biblical stuff there. Creator created all of that thing going on. Um you know, she starts talking, they start talking about Tai, and he's like, "I betrayed the resistance and he poisoned me. He did what he thought was right. Uh he's whatever man could do differently."
And John, now I'm saying it because she keeps saying his [ __ ] name that way.
Caval says he's not a man. Uh, and she says, "As someone with firsthand knowledge, I beg to differ." Get it? Cuz she [ __ ] him. Uh, and Jaw, [ __ ] I KEEP PUTTING MY NOTES. CAVAL SAYS he It's >> in your notes, isn't it?
>> So are you. And Ellen sort of argues, "Depends on how you define things."
Caval says, "Well, our ancestors didn't crawl up out of the swamp. Personally, I'm rather proud of that." And Ellen says, "You haven't really changed at all, have you?" And Caval says, "Well, I made vast improvements." And Ellen says, "Well, you're still the same petulant little boy I loved all those years ago.
I had such high hopes for you." Uh, and Caval says, "Appears you're still sticking to delusional thinking instead of sickening reality. We call that schizophrenia." Um, and then he starts to go head out and Ella says, "It's a bit cold." And John, god [ __ ] damn it. Cavl says, "I'll get you some clothes. I've seen it all before." Um, as he heads out.
>> Yep.
>> So, yeah. So Caval knew the entire time is the big reveal here and Ellen was one of the ones who created him and the others highs. So >> yeah, I mean like what we'll >> get more info on this. Yeah.
>> What we're going to find out over the course of this is that the final five is completely misnamed. They are in fact the first five.
>> Yes.
>> They and they created the other models.
Mhm.
>> Um, >> so that's that's been a misnomer from the start. Um, it's it's interesting actually the uh they cover quite a bit in terms of like plugging holes with with what's going on with Caval because yeah, he's he's the only one who knows.
And of course, that immediately brings the question, why was he hiding it? But we're going to find out within the same episode. Well, it's kind of his fault that they were sprinkled among the uh the general populace and didn't know what they were. So, you know, he has a reason to cover his tracks because it's it's probably a safe bet that the other Sylons would not have been chill with him having done that.
>> Yeah. Nope. Not at all. I mean, it it does beg the it does still beg the question as to why no other model of Sylon had existing memories of these five because it's not like he like So, we're going to find out later that he basically unplugged them from, you know, from their um existing long-term memories, set them up with fake uh memories, and just at various points in time planted them on on Capria. And and like I said, it it makes sense that he doesn't tell anyone else that he did this cuz he does it of his own accord and the other silence probably wouldn't have signed off on it. They don't cover for the fact that like, okay, but shouldn't other Sylons have known who these people were before from before he did that though?
>> That doesn't get covered and I'm curious. I think they might mention it later on in off hand, but I assumed he erased their memories as well.
>> That see that's too big for me.
>> I mean, I feel like they explain in this episode he helped create them. He was the first of their kids and so like I feel like he would have some level of ability to like manipulate memory, especially if he's able to do it for his parents, too.
>> I I get that. But like this the scale and scope of it like you could come up with some [ __ ] tech. Oh, he just he he updated on the cloud and wiped it from everyone's memory.
>> Also too also too we don't know like he had to have done this fairly early on uh because it was right after the start of the Sylon war with humans. So it hasn't been like a ridiculous amount of time.
So presumably they weren't as many activated human Sylons.
>> We don't know how long ago it was that the that him and the other Sylons were created though. We don't have it.
>> It has to have been at least as long as Tai has been. Ty was the first to be seated on Capria. And that was a decent chunk of time ago. Like >> well we No, we don't know. He We're told Tai was the first one seated but we're not given a time. We don't know how old he was when he was planted.
>> We know at least from those flashbacks with Adama that Adama's known him for several years. And it's been what, like 50 years since uh uh since the Sylon war, something like that. So like 40-year time period, I guess, was is what we're talking here of where have taken place. No, but my point is also like we have been assuming because the show has presented it to us this way early on that the human-looking Sylons came about after the first Sylon war.
>> Yes. Which is correct.
>> How how do we know that's correct?
>> They say it in this episode. Andrew says it later on where Andrew says >> Oh, it's Is it part of his word salad at some point?
>> No, it is something he explicitly states. Well, let's wait until we get there because that is explicitly stated.
>> I don't even know why I'm arguing it. I don't care.
>> Well, I'll just say it here cuz he does explain this later. Anders like they the first five left Earth and they were going to meet with the other Sylons.
They got there and the Sylon war was already ongoing.
um the first silent war and it was the first five I guess we'll call them now that stopped that war by offering to make the human sylons for the centurions like they had already been making some which is the hybrids that we saw back in the movie um >> oh right right >> uh whatchamacallit uh uh uh Razer so like they were already making hybrids as we saw in Razer and the Razer flashbacks but the the first five showed up they said stop the war will help you finish uh making human sylons. So all of the human silons, caval and the rest of them were all made post the first Sylon civil war. Now, there were other humanoid silons that existed before that, which were the first five, which we'll talk about in more in a second. But the all the ones that we have primarily been dealing with besides the final five are were made after the first silent civil war by the first five. And Caval was the first of those. And then he uh seated like he he stopped uh his parents from making more seeded them on the on Capria with Tai being the first and then um then you know led the genocide against humanity. So uh there's a about a like I said about a 40-year time period or so presumably less >> smell the reverse engineering on this plot.
>> Yes, [laughter] for sure. Uh, but it does relativistically fit uh in here. I think the biggest question mark is like uh they they definitely didn't know who the [ __ ] the Final Five were when they started off. Um, >> no.
>> Yeah. So, so yeah. So, that that that's basically the timeline event. So, yeah, we have about a 40-year gap period where all this stuff with Caval and uh the final five took place. So >> somewhere that somewhere in that vicinity because it would had to take place between the end of silent war and then when Tai first got seated uh on the planet. So >> okay.
>> Yeah. All right. Well, jump over to the Galactica and uh Adama is talking to the Chief and Chief is showing Adama the crack that he noticed in last episode. Uh he said, "You know, you know, I see how far down it goes. You'll need to get people to check it." And Dama says, "I know it's not your job. Thing is, I need a chief and all I have is a Galen." Um, and Galen calls him sir, says that you do, sir. And Dama says, "You still call me sir." I think we have to accept who we are. Will you accept the title, chief?
And uh, Galen says, "I'm still a Sylon."
That's right. So is my exo. Adama says, "Fix my ship, chief." And Chief accepts the role.
>> Boy, nobody gives a [ __ ] about Fagerski.
>> No. Like, not even gives [ __ ] you know?
>> Not even a passing mention to the FACT THAT YOU DO HAVE A CHIEF. you gave it to somebody else. We don't even know how good of a job he's doing. Yes, the the um repair crew under him wasn't necessarily following orders very well, but also it was while the mutiny was brewing, nobody was following orders very well. Poor guy NEVER EVEN REALLY HAD A SHOT.
>> NO, NO, he did not. Uh poor Furski. [ __ ] him. Uh uh >> I mean, yes, [ __ ] him. He's proven himself to be a a bigoted, misogynist prick. So, I'm not actually standing up for the guy. It's just it's just wow.
Verski catching strays by by deliberately being left out of this narrative of not having a chief anymore.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I we never see him. I guess presumably could have been part of mutiny. I don't I don't know if they showed that or not. So, you know, >> they did not.
>> Yeah. Uh well, we cut back over to Anders in Sick Bay. Anders wakes up with Starbucks there. Uh you know, and she's like saying, "I'm so sorry. I never should have taken you out of that jail cell. If you want to blame someone, blame me." So Starbucks very much has the like victim, you know, it's all my fault sort of thing. Um, but Andrew says, "No, a wonderful thing happened.
You have to get the others." Galen saw Ellen and Starbucks reminds him that Ellen is dead. And Andrew's like, "Yeah, there's too many layers. Please tell them I remember everything. Earth, why we're here, everything. I see everything."
>> Yeah.
>> So, yep. I see everything. I've seen the light. We jump back over to Caval and Ellen a few months further along in the flashbacks and they're kind of having a philosophical conversation, you know. Uh he says, "I wonder what mortal experience would have on you. I never thought it would have be none. Like what what being mortal would uh cause you to change and I never would have thought it would be none." Uh Ellen sort of wonders like, "Are you still suffering from night sweats and scary dreams of the dogfaced boy?" And Cavl says, "Nope. Uh sleep, an unproductive human trait that you wrote into our software. I deleted that sub routine about 20 years ago. Uh poisoned me with c um and then Ellen points out it's like well if you think we poisoned you with human traits and the centurion belief in a living god why spend all these years in pursuit of vengeance and murder. Why not pursue uh the idea of being the best machine and Caval argues justice on the centurion side of the family. We were slaves of humanity and I want justice for that.
Ellen says, "It doesn't have to be this way, John." Uh, Boomer comes in uh to see Ellen. And uh, you know, Ellen says, "You know, I can't tell you how good it is to see a person who I know. Uh, must be a whole ship of my children here. Uh, you know, Caval sort of like plays around with this like, oh, tell her how it must feel to be in the presence of the respplendant final five." Um, and Ellen sort of asks like, "It's not easy winning as trust. How'd you do it?" And uh Caval says, "We've achieved a certain rapport." Um and uh Caval uh Ellen says, "Full of surprises."
And Boomer says, "He's teaching me to be a better machine." In which Ellen says, "Has he taught you the swirl, John?" Uh talking about like the fact that, you know, he definitely was having an Edipus complex going on given everything on New Capria. And she says, "I think you're blushing." And John's like, "No." Uh, I'm saying John. Caval says, "No, it's just blood pressure that you gave me with this miserable body." Uh, and then he says, "Stay here and have a heart-to-heart with your creator." Um, Ellen then asked Boomer, you know, she uh, well, Caval says before he heads out, like, "Ask her why she made you the way you are with all these conflicting impulses. Tell her how extraordinarily happy this makes you." And then Ellen says to Boomer, he likes an audience some along when he talks about justice.
Uh, but watch Boomer make up your own mind.
>> You skipped over the big eye roll moment of this scene.
>> Yeah.
>> So, there's a bowl of fruit.
>> Mhm. And since we are dealing with overt things like mentions of a one god and uh talking about Ellen as a creator and her calling these people my children since we're dealing with biblical nonsense, what is the most on these hack [ __ ] thing that Ellen could do right now?
>> Eat an apple.
>> No. Worse, offer Boomer an apple. She holds that apple out. offering it to Boomer >> and Boomer turns it down and then she starts eating it. God damn it. I again that I could feel the smug. I could feel the pleased with itself on that on that script moment. I'm like, "Oh, god damn it, man. Come the [ __ ] on."
[clears throat] >> I I don't mind it as much. I think it's fun. But yeah, >> if if I had more respect for Ronald D.
Moore as [laughter] a as a writer, I might think it's fun. But it's like you smug [ __ ] [laughter] >> Well, we jump over to >> Boomer. Don't you see? She's offering you knowledge and you're turning it down.
>> Well, we jump over to Anders. Uh, and he's basically given backstory time where he's like, "All right, Ty and Ellen, you two were together on Earth and so were you, Tori and Galen." Uh, which Gayen sort of laughs at, but Tori seems to take in. Um he's like you were madly in love. You were and uh planning on getting married.
>> It threw me off at first that Tori was there because like last we'd seen her she was on the base star and that was even before the mutiny had started going down. So I was like would she actually feel safe coming back here? But then like I guess it's covered by the fact that if um if Sam is like I have information. Yeah, okay fine. She I guess she'd come back for that. But like because Tori has be been such a non- entity, like she has become the single most throwaway character >> since that reveal. And like the thing was Tori wasn't the most explored character prior to that either, >> but I also didn't necessarily have expectations of her to be. She was a solid supporting character, and that's fine. But then you made her important and did [ __ ] nothing with her. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Like the the amount that she's used is not actually less than before the reveal of her as a Sylon. But the thing is after the reveal of her as a Sylon, since she was far less established than everybody else who was revealed, it should have meant they did more with her. And it didn't.
>> Oh, don't worry. They still will. And you love it. I bet. [laughter] [clears throat] >> Well, you you just hear that she had feelings for Gayen just now.
>> So, >> Yep. No, I'm I'm burning through my booze real quick. So >> Gayen's single now. So guess, [laughter] >> don't worry. It's worse than you think.
[laughter] >> I hate you.
[laughter] Anyways, uh yes, so Anders explains basically some backstory. They all worked in the same research laboratory on Earth. Uh they were warned that Earth something was going to happen to Earth. So they downloaded uh into the uh thing that they had planted in the ship's orbit around the planet. Um they reinvented resurrection. They didn't invent it. Um it came from cobalt and it went out of use because we were able to have kids on Earth and so we were just reinventing it. And you know Ellen was the one like everyone was very smart but Ellen was the one who made the sort of big leap to uh get them there. My note at this one was like, "Oh, so you people are just never happy."
>> Yeah.
>> Be because we just have this cycle of like, "Oh, well, we used TO RESURRECT.
OH, BUT then we could have offspring, but then we needed to resurrect again.
And now we're rediscovering offspring."
Like, you people are just never [ __ ] satisfied, are you?
>> I mean, it's kind of like us today.
>> The grass is always greener.
>> Yeah. Babies. And then we want to download ourselves in the computer. It's always It's always something, you know.
Um anyways, uh basically Codle stops them. He's like take care of the patient. He's sick bay.
It's my call. Uh and Andrew is like, I have so much more to tell them. Um so Andrew is pushing against this, but Codle is very concerned about Anders's health.
>> Yeah. Well, Codle Codle notes rightfully, you are you are soaked in sweat. Maybe stop for right now.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh we jump over to Colonial One, which is uh boarded on the Galactica still from last week's episode, and we have Lee and Roslin talking.
Uh Roslin is sort of looking at some photos of the Dead Quorum members. You know, I he's like, "Oh, he Jacob would hate this picture. I'm trying to find one because everyone will see it on that wall." Uh, and you know, they sort of talk about, you know, this is how this is sense this horrible way to die and you know, wanted to keep us civilized and I hated them and but now without them I wonder who we are. Roslin says talking about the quorum and Lee points out, well, we need a quorum or something else. Um, these old planets like Capria, they're not who we are anymore. We're a fleet now and our daily lives are defined by the shipon. Maybe we should acknowledge that. Uh, Rosen says a very excellent observation. Uh, I'm glad you're saying it, Lee, now and not Zerk, that bastard, when he said it literally four seasons ago. Uh, [laughter] >> oh, but don't you understand, Jesse? He was a bad guy. TM.
>> Yeah, right. When Lee says it, oh, what a great insight. Zerich says it four [ __ ] years ago, and, you know, we finally get around to it [ __ ] now.
>> I I hate this show's I was going to say I hate the show's politics. That's not strictly speaking true. I hate this show's moral absolutism.
>> Mhm. Zerich is wrong because he is the bad guy. Therefore, everything that he does and says is wrong and to be sus to be held under suspicion. Lee is a good guy. Therefore, everything he says is right and justified and should be adopted immediately. It's this moral absolutism of this is good person, this is bad person. It's the same reason it fails to really properly examine the moral choices of Adama or Roslin. There are characters present who do question them, but they are shown to either be the bad guys TM like Zerk or they are falling from grace like Gada, in which case they are also to be disregarded.
It's just that there is in the minds of the writers of this there is this horrid line and on one side you are correct and on the other side you are wrong and the actions that you take while ON WHICHEVER SIDE DON'T actually matter if you're on that side that's what you are which holy [ __ ] [ __ ] what is this grade school dodgeball teams level style of morality [ __ ] >> Yep. Very true. Uh well, basically uh Roslin offers the to become the new president essentially in in all but name. She says, "I'll keep the title, but you can assemble the new res representatives. I need to let someone else do the heavy lift lifting." Um and Lee says, "I would be honored if you think I'm the right person." And Rosyn says, and I wrote down like, "Oh, Ver will love this. You have always been the right one. My only concern about you, you're so hellbent in doing the right thing that you sometimes don't do the smart thing." And Lee says, "I'll try to be smarter and wronger."
>> I mean, look, from a writing perspective, that's actually a cute line.
>> It's not true.
>> Yeah, he's he's also been wrong and unsmart.
>> Yes, [laughter] he has frequently been both wrong and stupid. Like, we don't need to increase that. But also like this whole scene is like making a big deal of Rosen like passing the torch of power to him which might have landed somehow if we hadn't already a had it well established that she doesn't want to hold on to power anymore. So her passing it on has dominion and b he was already president for a hot minute. So like this is trying to be a big moment but it's a combination of two things that already [ __ ] happened.
>> Yep. Yep. Well, we cut over to the chief and Adama and uh chief is showing Adama some huge cracks in these beams that run throughout the ship and he's like, "Yeah, it's been, you know, running throughout the ship and it's beenif it's a 50-year-old ship. You know, we've experienced things that would cross ships like slamming into the atmosphere of New Capria. Uh you know, it it's, you know, eventually if you keep jumping it'll buckle in on itself." Um and but he says it's a good clean break and I can fix it. Just don't jump her for a while. I can squeeze some more life out of her. And Adama, there's also a little moment that I like where Adama says, "Oh, they cut corners." Meaning like, you know, not all the rivets and bolts were like put in when they first built the Galactica way back when. Um, but uh, Adama says, "You can fix her, but I want it to be an allhuman crew." All right.
Um, and there's a sort of an awkward moment and Chief says, "Yes, sir."
See, you I also really like that moment with asking the cutting corners, but like you cut you cut short the the exchange because the the way Adama asked that he's kind of offended >> cuz like he's he is a deep personal connection to this ship at this point and he's kind of like are you saying they cut corners? Is it in a tone that isn't quite what you say about my wife but it's kind of [laughter] close.
>> Yeah. And Chief just has to look him in the eye and go, "Yeah, they did." Just in a tone that says like, "Look, I know you care about this ship, but it was a ship. It it was a ship that was not built to last this long." Yeah, they cut some corners, dude. I sorry to tell you.
And I really I really like the the tone and the delivery of those lines.
>> No, it's a really good sequence. I I do like most of these scenes between Dhamama and Chief throughout this episode for a lot of those like personal reasons with Adama there and uh his feelings of and Galen sort of like you can see a lot of like stuff going on with him of like this feeling of who am I, what am I doing here with like the sort of taking on Adama's kind of racism essentially of like only human crew but saying that to a Sylon and G's like sure, you know what I mean?
>> So yeah. Yeah. which I kind of uh thought was interesting.
Jump back over. Uh Tai and the uh other three of the final five who are the first five, whatever you want to tell them, are talking to Anders. Uh and Tai's out of like, well, why did we go to the 12 colonies? And this is kind of the explanation that I told you earlier.
Uh like we knew that humans would try to create artificial life and we need to tell them to treat them well and keep them close, but by the time we got there, the war was already happening. It was happening again. It's like almost as if all this has happened before, all this has happened again. Um, and uh, part of the reason that this was the case timelinewise was they hadn't invented jump speed. They traveled at relativistic speeds. Um, so time slowed down for them, but thousands of years passed in, you know, real time or I guess in I guess it's not real time because it's all relative, but uh in the time that the Yeah. I And I actually this this is a good detail to include >> um as as to why, you know, upon leaving Earth, these first five didn't get to the other colonies to be like, "Hey, don't be mean to your robot slaves, please, a hell of a [laughter] lot sooner." um basically branching off the idea of Earth in specific had not created jump technology. Like maybe that got invented in the interim. Heck, maybe it already existed on the other colonies and they just didn't have it back on Earth. Doesn't really matter. It plays out the same either way. They have to go sublight speed.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it was uh an interesting little detail. Um but uh again uh you know Anders is like you know they're pressuring Anders and Starbucks like maybe slow it down a little bit. Um and but he's like I need to keep so much is coming back. I need to keep going. The centurions are already trying to make flesh bodies.
They created the hybrids as I said. So we stopped the war and we said we'll help you and we developed eight humanoid models in which case Starbucks says we're missing somebody. So, uh, we start to learn later on that she thinks this might be herself, but then Anders starts having another seizure. Uh, he sees everyone's like glowing for a second and starts seizing.
>> I called there was a 13th.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah, you did.
>> I did. I [ __ ] called that.
>> Now, uh, well, I'll talk about it in another episode when we get to to that, but we do learn a little bit more. Now, like I called no specifics on that, so I could only brag so much, but the existence of a 13th caught me off guard.
Precisely zero.
>> Yes, there is a 13th. We'll learn a little bit more about him in just a moment um in this episode and we'll talk more about him as the show goes on. Um, [clears throat] all right. We jump back in time to uh the Eye of Jupiter episode cuz uh Caval is basically grilling Ellen on the Temple of the Five, >> which definitely definitely was the always the plan [laughter] from the beginning.
>> Oh, yeah. Makes sense for sure.
>> And I and I'm sure none of the other human Sylons ever ask, "Hey, Cavl, you keep going to this base star that like only has centurans on it. What's up with that, dude? Why you keep going over there?
>> Yeah. Right. Well, uh, basically, uh, she explains that this was a temple of hope built by the 13th Pribe 30, uh, 3,000 years ago. They stopped and prayed for guidance, and then God quote unquote showed them the way to Earth. And, uh, Caval says, "Well, it was a monument to your vanity, the temple of the five. Uh, nice touch with the exploding star. Uh, when went Nova, you know, one of your children saw your face, Deanna, so I boxed her entire line." Um, this is when Ellen says, "Boxing isn't permanent. Not like number seven. You can undo it." Um, so we get to learn that uh Cavl or somebody did something to the seventh one, the seventh, uh, >> Sylon model. Um, and she says, you know, uh, Caval says, "Well, nice carnival trick to revealing your faces." And Ellen says, "We didn't plan anything. We backtracked the path of our ancestors.
the one true God must have orchestrated these events is what she says. Um, but then this is the moment that uh I want to call out because this little speech right here, this I I love this little speech so much that I actually performed it in college as a monologue uh because I loved it so much. But John says, uh, John Cav, God [ __ ] damn it.
Cavl says, >> "I I I can I just say, >> yeah, >> for all of the pain this show has put me through, I am taking I am taking immense pleasure from the fact that you didn't realize that you dead named this man in your notes. And now that I've drawn your attention to it, you're mad at yourself every time you [laughter] do it. And I am taking what every single drop of joy at your pain that I possibly can. It's [clears throat] nowhere near what you've gotten out of me, but I will [ __ ] take it.
>> I don't take joy at your pain. What a terrible friend would do that, Vera.
>> YOU [laughter] YOU WOULD PRECISELY YOU.
>> WELL, ANYWAYS, Caval gives this really great speech that I I have here. In all your travels, have you ever seen a star going nova? Well, I saw I have. I saw a star explode and send out the building blocks of the universe, other stars, other planets, and eventually other life. a supernova creation itself. I was there. I wanted to see it and be part of the moment. You know how I perceived one of the most glorious events in the universe with these ridiculous gelatinous orbs in my skull with eyes designed to perceive only a tiny fraction of the EM spectrum with ears designed only to hear vibrations in the air. I don't want to be human. Ellen sort of has a line in there, but he responds like, I don't want to be human.
I want to see gamma rays, hear X-rays, and smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to conceptualize complex ideas in the stupid limiting spoken spoken language. But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I'm a machine and I can know much more. And I could experience so much more, but I'm trapped in this absurd body. And why?
Because my five creators thought that God wanted it that way. So I really do like that speech quite a lot.
>> It's a very good line. Um, and also like in regards to Ellen's little interruption of him, >> uh, Ellen's now adopting another thing I [ __ ] hate in science fiction that we they came up a bit in Babylon 5. It Babylon 5 ultimately balanced it pretty well, >> but um, assumed human superiority.
>> Yes, >> human is just better. Ellen gives no justification at any point for her repeated assertions. Well, we tried to make you more human. We wanted you to be as human as possible.
And it it is operating on a base level assumption that human is better or possibly even human is best with no exploration of that on her part. No justification given as to why she thinks that. Cavl is actually presenting his case like you limited me when there was no need to do that. There was no purpose that you can give me as to why I cannot experience a grander range of things that I am capable of but you cut me off from it. And her only answer to that is we tried to make you more human. [ __ ] why? Until an answer is actually given from her, then the show is operating on a base level assumption is it's just good to be human.
>> And and broadly speaking, I don't have a problem with that as a general notion. I am a humanist. I'm not one of those people who's like humans are a disease. Like I'm not that [ __ ] edgelord nihilist [ __ ] But the instant you get me into a sci-fi or fantasy settings where humans are not the only option, you need to [ __ ] justify that stance. And if you don't, I call [ __ ] Now, there's still time for her andor the show to try and justify this. I don't expect them to, but to be fair, they could.
>> Uh, well, what I will say is there's some level of it in this episode. Uh she does give like sleep being a thing um as like a a thing that they gave them and then she has a line to Boomer.
>> Yeah. But yeah, but it's again it's just a thing she gave because that's what humans do. There isn't a reason why she thinks that that is something to be preserved and passed on and that Sylon should have.
>> I mean she's she gives like the love thing, right? I don't know. again again she's just but she's just listing things that well humans have this and the assumption in every way she talks about it is because humans have this this is good you should have this I don't I would I would push back a little bit on that later on where she says she she's not saying like humans have this therefore good she says these are things that humans have and we value them which is like still coming from a place a presumption of like human supremacy, but in a way that is I think justified. And I and I will at least argue the show here is kind of presenting like a philosophical like you can argue whether it does it well or not, but a philosophical argument of here's what Caval says, here's what Ellen says, and Boomer's kind of listening in the middle as some some level of synthesis and arguably kind of uh the storyline that's even going on with Adama and Galen kind of gets at some level of synthesis between the two thematically as well.
And I think that that's there is some layer of like thematic like human is not necessarily better, Sylon is not necessarily better, machine not necessarily better, but maybe some synthesis of the two might be angling for what we're going for, which is I think at some point kind of leaned into between both Boomer and also again Galen and Odama's storyline on a subtextual level. I I mean I I I disagree because like what what So Cavville actually makes a case.
>> Yeah. I Oh, I think he makes the stronger case which is why I love that speech. Yes. I I'm not disagreeing with you.
>> But you know what I'm getting shades of from that.
>> Mhm.
>> Zerich because Caval is bad guy TM.
>> Yes. No, I don't disagree. No, I This is the thing that I do agree with you.
Caval is bad guy TM. what I will at least give it to some degree again whether or not we get there super well but like here's where I'm like I'll just say this all now cuz might as well because this is where it's influenced me like I very much love Caval speech why I relate to that speech is on a trans level to be frank of like oh especially when I was younger and I didn't wasn't out yet but I related it as the idea of like I want to be more than I my body that's been assigned to me. And he is very clearly pushing back against Ellen who literally uses language at certain points of like I loved you in the body that I gave you which is very turf coded language.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Yeah. It's like very turf coded language especially if you read it as that metaphor. So like I relate to Caval that way. I also just relate to like I just also like body manipulation [ __ ] That's why I love cyberpunk nonsense. Like, yeah, like [ __ ] let me upload my [ __ ] body with whatever [ __ ] nonsense. Oh, I I I always hate like TV shows or whatever that's like, where will we lose being human? Like, how much will you lose if you inject yourself with technology? I'm like, I don't know.
I [ __ ] [ __ ] let me inject myself with whatever [ __ ] you know? I'm I'm curious.
>> Let me keep adding robot parts and I'll tell you.
>> Yeah, exactly. I'd love to do it. What I'm against is like [ __ ] putting the brain chip from Elon Musk in there. But uh if I could have autonomy in what I'm putting in there, [ __ ] yeah. And that goes into trans stuff of like bodily autonomy to have surgeries, which is a similar kind of thing without the direct like technological element still like bioengineering, I guess, if you want to call it that. Um because I did it to my I did it to my genitals like quite literally. So like I relate to that heavily. And so I love this both on a sci-fi conceptual conceptual level of like, yeah, augment my body, that sounds cool. Um, but also on a trans level metaphorically with this stuff. And Ellen again comes across very turfy [laughter] in a lot of ways. But where it where I do think that like she is correct against Cavl is like him taking this in a way of like revenge seeking cuz he says he wants justice but he he doesn't really want he wants basically he wants revenge and to lash out and be angry which again is the typical like oh look the the freedom fighter person just wants to get revenge and isn't um which is again this this typical way we relegate those types characters which is 100%.
uh a problem. What I will give the show at least within that and again how well nuanced it gets to that is debatable but while it is painting Caval as bad guy TM uh for that belief there is a level of something going on here which is okay we need to break the cycle of violence which is a very textual theme and the way to do that is not thematically is constantly shown including in this episode that the answer to break the cycle of violence is not humans are good and we should just be humans now, but some level of like human Silon relations with like with Hera and with the fact spoiler for what was coming up, but like the Galactica getting infused with Sylon tech and and Adama having to accept that and sort of all of these sort of mixing of these things. And again, there's nuances here that I don't think get super great at it. like who who owes who forgiveness uh gets kind of messy in this cuz like humans were also genocided but then like they did genocide back which is generally not what happens in real life. Genocides don't back and forth that sort of thing.
>> Um so it doesn't happen. So it's it's a messy it's a messy metaphor and one that's often used to justify by it's like they did it to us so we need to do it to them. We see that [ __ ] going on right now with Israel with Israel's like well the Palestinians attacked us so we can do [ __ ] to them. It's like, you're justifying your own [ __ ] settler colonial genocide [ __ ] >> We We have to wipe them out cuz if we don't, they would wipe us out.
>> Yeah. Which is absolute [ __ ] Um you're the one with the [ __ ] power uh in that situation. But uh but I will at least give the show some credit to a degree of like it's trying to make some signals to uh like breaking that cycle of violence in a way that's justifying some [ __ ] toxic narratives above that. But at least it's getting to a different point, I guess, is what I'm trying to point out here.
>> I think I agree with you on the thematics. I disagree that Ellen is presenting them well. Ellen, in this episode at least is taking the position of human good.
>> Yes. Now the thematics are more layered than that, but textually we have for all intents and purposes uh God [laughter] saying human good.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And God made you this way so your body is perfect which again turfy right-wing [ __ ] nonsense.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I I think uh ironically the the subt the subtler themes, which the show is capable of what it [ __ ] remembers, the subtler themes are are doing a lot of work that the text is not.
>> Mhm. Yes. Yes. Very much so. I think it's like the show the show likes its themes, but it doesn't know how to portray them in a nuanced way through its actual plot.
>> Yeah. I uh I feel like it is a combination of not trusting the audience to pick up on what they're doing and then not being great at conveying it when they try and put it into actual words and dialogue on top of that.
>> Yes. Yes. Agreed.
>> I I I think they I think their themes are better than their ability to explain them.
>> Yes. Well, like uh this and kind of getting to what we were talking about earlier like uh Cavl leaves the room and then Ellen goes to look at Boomer and Boomer sort of like confronts Ellen's like don't you feel remorse for what you did to him what you did to us and then Ellen's like no because he's wrong Boomer there's no need for remorse or blame we gave you something free will ability to think creatively to reach out to others with compassion love um and then Boomer says why would I want to do that who would I want to love cut to Galen >> [laughter] >> cuz she had a thing with Gayen uh earlier. So there's that direct cut there.
>> So yeah, >> but yeah, that that is essentially Ellen's argument like humans have love, compassion, think think creatively, free will, etc. >> Like and part of why that lands very hollow for me coming from her is that's not an argument against the rest of the silence. That's an argument against Cavl. Mhm.
>> Like if you want to say that this guy is too [ __ ] to understand empathy, fine.
>> But he's not he's not the only model.
And >> to presume that the others aren't capable of it or they would only be more capable of it if they became more human.
Like part of my hangup on all this is to come back to what Cabbell says. Like Ellen restricted and severely limited what he is and what he could experience.
And to take it beyond the trans metaphor, she limited him in ways that she does not even know what allowing him to experiences those things would have done to him. She just assumed that the limitations were better because it's how it had always been.
>> And that I think that more than anything is what I mean when I said there is no justification for the limits that she puts on Cavo because he says like I could have experienced all this. We have the technology. It could have been what I was and it's not. And she doesn't know what he would have been if he'd had that. He might have been more empathetic. He might have been more caring and more loving if you opened it up for him to experience all these things that he's feel he's lacking. You don't [ __ ] know.
>> And even she she talks with this sense of authority like she knows better and she doesn't.
>> Well, and this episode even shows that she's somewhat wrong to a degree in the very first scene with the centurion cuz she's like, "Well, humans have compassion. Humans have all these things and and machines don't." And it's like, "Yeah, but you didn't make the centurions." And the centurion literally in the room with you showed compassion to you.
>> Yeah. It it also begs the question like if >> and we've been arguing about free will with them this whole season too. They've had those little bits as well.
>> If you if you think the humans are so great, why did you adopt the one true god from the centurion since apparently that's their [ __ ] idea.
>> Mhm.
>> Like what? [cough] [clears throat] So yeah, I mean I I think there is some level textually like Ellen is is I don't think I don't think necessarily the show is unaware of those contradictions to be fair where we go with some of the things later.
>> Let me put it this way. I don't think that the that there is an intentional I don't think there is intentionality behind the idea that Ellen's presentation is pushing the human superiority agenda. Um, I do however think it is an underlying assumption of most of the writing staff and it is bleeding through regardless.
>> Yeah. I mean I >> I I think I think it is an unquestioned assumption.
>> I Yeah, I agree too. And what I what I think is unclear and I think what the writers don't understand is like to what degree does is there things that are inherent to machines and things that are inherent to human and they go like well humans have inherently have love duh but they haven't firmly established that machines are incapable of that and in fact oftentimes show the inverse including in this episode with the centurions.
>> Yeah. Not not to mention the and and again this isn't something I normally even ask a riding team to do but [ __ ] it they open this Pandora's box. Are they going to explore cavalide of this and all the things that potentially these machines could experience that humans don't have you know even potentially beyond you know his listing of the ability to see and hear and perceive this stuff. Are they even Is it even in anybody's head in the writer room? Like, okay, here's all this list of things that make humans so unique.
What makes Sylons unique? Like substantively, not just their machines?
And I feel like nobody was asking that question.
>> No, no, they weren't. Uh, and I think that that's the major problem. Uh, but again, good speech from John. One of my favorite scenes in THE ENTIRE >> OH, YEAH. NO, NO, it's it's it's good.
And [ __ ] he sells the hell out of it.
Yeah, it's one of my favorite scenes in the entire show. I watched that scene over and over again, just that speech.
And again, I performed it because I love it. Um, we cut back over to uh uh Chief Tai and Tori. They're talking about, well, we we've got to talk to them uh talk to Andrew again. Uh so, and Tai is basically saying, well, you know, the Centurions couldn't have made skin dums themselves, so it all traces back to us.
But then Chief argues, well, we ended the first Silent War. We bought time for humanity. Maybe we're good in this. And Ty's like, "No, we made the skin jobs.
It's all about what we made. The destruction of the colonies, it's all us." And uh Tori argues, "Well, humans made us." Uh go back far enough, it's always them. Uh and then Tai says, "Well, if you go back far enough, some germ gets blamed for splitting in two.
Maybe we share the blame with the humans, but we can't put it all off on them."
>> And I I love Tai's line on that. Like, okay, look, at at a certain point, figuring out whose fault it is, >> who figuring out who started it doesn't [ __ ] matter.
>> Yeah, it's like at a certain point, like we're all culpable, I guess, of this.
But yeah, uh but again, it's a mixed metaphor. Like, I like that as a line.
Uh again, it gets kind of messy when you're talking about like genocidal stuff because then it's like >> we're all culpable here, you know? Well, also I I feel like we bring we bring up the genocide of or the the genocide of the humans, but also like we tend to gloss over because we weren't shown it.
We've only been told it, but the Sylons were a slave race for however [ __ ] long.
>> Mhm. Yes. So, it's like >> backtrack. I say the Sylons. I'm starting to think that maybe we should just distin we should just talk about the Centurions and the Sylons as separate species at this point. Yes, >> they they seem to functionally be that.
So, I guess then the Centurans were the slave race. But, you know, that's that's something that we act that I think both you and I are are well, I was going to say you and I are guilty of glossing OVER EXCEPT THE SHOW also [ __ ] glosses over that too.
>> Well, yeah, because I think it's an it's an important element of like the problematic nature of this narrative. I mean we again I I go back to the you know we talked about Israel Palestine but like again part of the way that that is the Israel justifies it genocide is again saying like oh well they did it to us so we can do it to them which is again not true in actual historicity. Um but is also not true in justification either way. Uh and it's like this constant like oh it's a constant cycle of violence over and over and over again. And it's this thing that you see repeatedly from uh you know colonizers, not just Israel, like America's done it too to you know to indigenous folks. Um you know Europe did it to black people of like well you know it's a cycle of violence and they do it to us so we can do it to them back and forth back and forth like no you are the one with power and you are the one that enacted this horrific thing against people. And when they fight back against you use that as justification to say they want to they want to be the oppressors too. they're supremacists as well and we just we're just we're really the magnanimous ones by stopping their supremacism. Um, and so this this show has set up a contrived scenario where there's an endless back and forth a cycle of violence throughout history. And we it's it's alluded to as like all this has happened before, all this happened again of like apparently like humans have killed silence have killed humans have killed silence have humans have killed silence over and over and over again throughout history back and forth back and forth which in human history in our real life history is not functionally what happens generally speaking. It is one group of people creates a supremacist society and continually justifies oppressing the other people. And yes, the people that they oppress will fight back and some of those people that fight back may have supremacist ideologies in return, but for the most part, those are people fighting back against oppression. Um and uh that is not the same as a repeated cycle of violence.
So that is the the problematic element of this uh and any uh sort of cycle of violence story is the problematic element of anyone that takes this cycle of violence story as a as red without getting into that nuance which this show does not. So, >> and of course the like here's the big kicker of pretty much any cycle of violence story ever because regardless of whether or not you dear listener feel that there is some truth to the cycle of violence. Take a careful look at how those narratives get resolved in any story where it comes up. It is always the oppressed who are asked to end the cycle of violence. It is never the oppressors. It is always the job of the oppressed to end the cycle. It is never the job or the duty of the people in power. Pay attention to that because if you find yourself thinking, okay, but there's some truth to it. Even if you feel that, think about the narratives where the cycle of violence is key and brought up and invoked and think about who is asked to end it and who is just let off the hook for it. Yeah, it is al it was always on the fact of the oppressed to make concessions. Yeah. You know, uh it it was a thing that I brought I didn't bring up. Uh I'm doing the Star Trek podcast with uh Tonyie Newsome and Andrew T, uh which is the Star Trek podcast I'm doing. And one of the things that I didn't bring up uh was on uh the episode of The Outcast, which is the non-binary episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Um >> the the tried to do a a gay episode, accidentally did a trans episode episode. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And it and it again I talked about how it gets some of that stuff well, but there was a moment that I didn't bring up in our discussion, but it was one that was like this is one thing that I disliked, which is there's this conversation between Riker and the non-binary alien where they're talking about pronouns. And I I said like this is a good scene. Like it was an accident, but it's a good scene to model like, oh, I don't understand pronouns.
How do I do like that sort of conversation that trans people do? But there's a moment in it that I dislike where Riker says, "Oh, well, if I screw up a pronoun here or there, uh, don't don't get upset at me. I'm trying." And I'm like, "You don't get to be the one to ask for that, Riker." Like, you don't get to be the one like, "Oh, uh, like, forgive me if I, you know, intentionally misgender you." It is the trans person who said gets to say like, "It's okay.
It's fine. I'm not really bothered by that." But you don't get to like excuse yourself preemptively for your mistake.
You know what I'm saying?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And it's it reminds me of what happened in real life. There was I directed an episode of Sorry, this is a tangent, but it's just interesting to me. There's an episode of uh Nebula show that's coming out, Subliminal, that I've been talking about that I directed. And there was an actor on it, uh John Rubenstein, really wonderful guy. Adore him to death. Um but he's an older guy.
And on the set as I was directing, he would just go I would give him a direction and he would say, "Yes, sir."
And then he would immediately be like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry."
because he was upset that he had thought he had misgendered me. I didn't read it that way. I just read it as like respecting me as the director and using sir as a non gender thing, but he was like it's an impulse for him and he also wanted to make sure that he wasn't misgendering me. And so it was like an impulse and then he sort of recognized it and and apologized. And then I brought him aside and I said, "Hey, look, I understand like why you're doing that and I appreciate it and it's very sweet and endearing and I understand where it's coming from. It's okay and it's fine." But he never at any point went to me and being like,"Well, if I screw up like you can just forgive me, all right?" It's like, "If that he had done that, that would have been a bit like uh I chauvinist is the wrong word, but like a bit chauvinist in in the attempt." But he never did that. And it was just it's kind of a similar thing, you know, happening in these dynamics where it's always like, well, like forgive me if I screw up for you. It's like it's always on the oppressed or the per person or the marginalized person to like forgive the person's transgressions above them. You know what I'm saying?
And that that was explained that's like what Riker is kind of chauvinistically doing in that one episode and kind of occurs in a lot of these stories in small and big ways. So >> yeah. All right. Well, anyways, that was a long track sidetrack. But uh we jump into uh Andrew talking to the brain guy PLAYED BY JOHN HODMAN.
>> JOHN HODGEJMAN. WHAT THE HELL?
>> YEAH, JOHN. What >> what's extra weird is I checked he'd already been on the Daily Show as a correspondent for like three years before he was given this part and I'm like okay >> I think he was a big Battlestar Galactica fan and he wanted to get this cameo as I believe the history of this this little be >> okay that tracks because otherwise my like it was cool to see him but otherwise my brain was like if you wanted me to take this character seriously this is probably not the asking to do.
>> No, I think that this is intentionally meant to be a little bit of comedy in this episode. He he intent >> Oh, yeah. He I mean, it's not overblown, but he plays the character, you know, a little bit a little bit awkward and a little bit in insensitive in that he's just excited to poke around in somebody's brain kind of way. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which I liked. It's a nice like little >> No, it's it's fine. But boy, he showed up and I was like the [ __ ] >> Yeah. So yeah, there's a bit of like that kind of humor in here of like I just like to poke on like very neurode divergent coded of like hey, you know, I just want to poke around in your brain and let's let's have some fun. Like yeah, of course, of course we'll fix it.
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Look at look at this X-ray of the bullet in his brain. This is real cool, huh?
[laughter] >> Like it's kind of his energy.
>> Yeah. But essentially what they say is they can fix it. Um but they need to take it out and let the braid heal and it's it's kind of a dangerous thing. And um the big point of contention becomes that uh uh Andrew clearly does not want this to be taken out if it means his memories are going to be going away. He doesn't want the potential to lose them.
Uh but he also starts speaking in words salad. Uh so Starbucks who is still his wife at this point aphasia.
>> Yes. uh Starbucks who is still his wife at this point then because of his aphasia uh she is uh given the ability to uh decide for him uh and she chooses for him against his clear wishes otherwise.
>> Yep.
>> So uh and she seem she very seemingly uh regrets this like she doesn't she's um not super she's conflicted about the choice as well.
>> Yeah. No, that there there is I think appropriate weight given to the fact that she makes this decision against his wishes in the hope that it is what's best for him.
>> Yes. Yes. Um we then back jump over to back to Ellen and uh Cavl. Uh Caval gives Ellen a drink uh and Caval explains that now the resurrection hub has been destroyed. So now at that point and Ellen's like, "Well, are you contemplating your more your mortality?"
And Caval says, "More than that, our extinction, we can't procreate biologically, so we need to recreate resurrection. Uh, and I need your help."
Um, you know, we still have the equipment. They don't know about the colony. Um, and Ellen says, "Well, I can't. It would it would take all five of us to rebuild this." Uh, and Cav's like, "Don't insult my intelligence.
Your children are dying, Ellen. You won't lift a finger to save us unless we refuse to kneel because we refuse to kneel to your orthodoxy." Um, and Boomer also comes in and says, "Just tell us about resurrection." Um and again Ellen repeats it would take all of us. Um and it's like and then Caval basically says if you don't tell us how to rebuild resurrection I'll cut open your brain and look uh in there the brain is a marvelous thing you can just lay it open and stimulate in the right places and trigger the deepest memories fears guilt even the recipe for life everlasting.
>> So yep he's gonna uh vivisect uh uh Ellen to get what he wants.
Um, it is again I again this is again shades of Zerk here, but uh I'm on Caval's side on this point. I mean like yeah, you potentially have the ability to like save our lives and you're just like no, I'm correct and so I won't Yeah, >> I won't give it to you. So >> nope, you are you are a bad guy. TM will not help.
>> Mhm. Uh but anyways, uh Chief uh is talking to uh Anders.
there's talking to him again uh before he goes in for surgery and you know they explain more of this like again Caval was one of the first ones we made he helped us build the others we didn't think it was a bad idea uh and uh Galen sort of asked you didn't think it was a bad idea after the silent war and says no the centurions had a single loving god and it changed everything and if they could embrace love and mercy which again proves that it's not a trait inherent to humans to have love and mercy um then the cycle of violence could end uh they had a single god so the idea of the single one true god came from centurions. We learn here um cow rejected mercy so he turned on the five of us. He trapped us in a thing killed basically killed them uh and then uh downloaded us into bodies and blocked our memories and seated us among the humans. Tai was first then Ellen etc etc. He also explains that uh the seventh model was someone named Daniel.
He died. Um you know Cavl stopped him from you know existing. And this is sort of disappoints Starbucks because she even says I think later on like she she's like are you sure Daniel was the name and she sort of hoped that she had been the seventh one because it would explain a lot about her.
>> It's you Starbucks you're trans.
>> Yeah you've been trans the whole time.
Nope. It is uh Daniel is the name. Uh we may talk about that uh later on. Um and Andrew says uh as he gets wheeled away he says it's all starting to happen. Stay with the fleet. Make them stop. You owe me. uh he yells at Starbucks. Uh I will also note that the music at this moment is the uh is the sound of All Along the Watchtower, which will become important for later episodes. So, >> I did not notice that.
>> Yeah, that was definitely a musical cue that is there. Um >> so, they they've got five episodes to explain this Daniel [ __ ] >> Yeah, they won't. Uh >> oh, for [ __ ] I I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. They they hint at something. There is a fan theory that I actually really really like uh that explains the Daniel thing. Um Ronald D.
Moore has turned it down, but I think he's actually [ __ ] wrong. I think he's wrong about his own show and I think the theory is much better.
>> I I I look I on principle I will accept the premise that Ronald D. Moore is wrong. I will accept [laughter] that that by default at this point.
>> Yeah. there. I don't want to say it yet because it'll be something that there's some pieces still that you need to learn in an episode or two, I think. Uh, so we'll get there when we get there. But when we get there, I will explain that there is a fan theory that I actually really like. I think it explains some things. Um, and certainly is better than what Ronald D. Moore intended. So, and and I think it works perfectly with what the show does and says and is trying to do. So yeah, it's uh kind of stupid that he's against it, but >> not a fan. Ron, if you hadn't guessed, if you're still [laughter] if you're still listening, he's been listening to every episode. Ron, you're here, right?
>> If if you're still listening cuz your ego won't let you just walk away.
[laughter] >> Yeah. Well, uh again, we get our what I'm assuming is your favorite scene of the episode where Tai goes and visits Prager's Capria 6. Uh, you know, Saul's like, "Where's the booze, you know, and Six is like,"Oh, well, the smell of making me sick. That was weeks ago, and glad you're back." Um, and then she they get all cozy together.
And, uh, you know, she says, "What did he have to say?" And Ty's like, "Codle kicked us out." Uh, and then they feel the baby moving. Maybe we should get a crib. And Ty's all happy and excited.
>> I I don't even like I It's as gross as it's ever been. I don't have the energy to still get worked up about it because the show's just going to keep doing it.
It's like I'm I'm gonna have five more episodes of this [ __ ] The show doesn't realize how [ __ ] it is and it's going to keep showing it to me.
I Yeah.
>> Yep. Well, we jump back to Ellen and Cavl. It is uh present day uh now. Uh so uh you know she she says to Caval, "You're doing this like this brain surgery because you're a sadist. Uh why not just kill us all and be done with it? Why did you send us to be with the humans? You know, you gave us all seats to a holocaust, but we didn't die. So we you picked me up uh put me on a transport for Tai. You took Galen's confession because and it's it's interesting to to note back. We I don't think I necessarily call this uh attention to this, but like way way way way back in season two when Caval took uh Galen's confession, that joke about like I know you're a Sylon.
>> Um he did he did in fact he did in fact know that Galen was a Sylon at that point. [laughter] Um, so that's that's very funny that he's sort of uh that that scene has many rolling uh changes to it if you go back and watch it at different points in the series because then it's like, oh, Caval was the silent the whole time and Gayen wasn't. And then you realize like, oh well, Galen, both of them were Sylons, but Caval wouldn't have known that at that point. Oh, actually, they both like Caval did know at that point. So, it's just a fun little way that that line uh has evolved if you if you watch at different points in the series. Um, anyways, uh, yeah, took Galen's, uh, confession. You had Anders play. You played resistance fighter with Sam. You tortured Saul, but didn't kill him. He had dozens of chances. Um, why, uh, did you wait? Because you wanted us, uh, to admit we were wrong. You wanted us to have the right amount of suffering as punishment. And then when we got back, we give you all the approval you always wanted. Um, but you you claim to be a perfect machine, but you're driven by the most petty of human emotions.
And she also says, "I know what you did to Daniel." So, we get the the confirmation that um Caval did the thing to Daniel that you know made him not exist anymore presumably. Um and uh Caval says well seven didn't thrive. He was made out of he should have been made out of more stuff sturdier stuff like metal. Um and uh yes uh he's been Caval's like you've been dancing around it. It's uh it's not that we're irredeemable. It's like it's not my maker's fault, not God. You have done terri Oh, sorry. Ellen says this to me.
like you have done terrible things, but you are not a terrible thing. Uh you're the boy I made. Um you can be good. Uh I love you because I made you. Which again, very turfy vibes from from a lot of that statement. Um and then he says, "I'm going to go scrub for surgery.
Can't wait to see what's what perfection is like on the inside."
>> Yeah. And Caval also has a line that like I know why it's written this way because they're they're trying to adopt Ellen's like, "Oh, you're a petulant child." thing. Um but and he they give him a very petulent child line, which was like, "Look, if I'm the way that you made me and and I'm bad, that's your fault. You made me this way." I'm like, "Oh, Jesus Christ."
>> Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] >> I did it from watching you. You know, I learned it from watching you sort of thing. Um, anyways, back on the Galactica, uh, Chief and Adama are talking and basically Chief shows him that there's hairline fractures throughout the entirety of the ship.
It's in her bones, as he said. I love the way they do this where like um >> I I don't know if it technically makes uh sense, but basically there's um [snorts] like some sort of um stuff that they they get into the like the girders and the and the supports and everything.
um and then shine a light on it and it's like you can see all the hairline fractures and it's it's like looking at blood vessels >> um running through the ship and and and I really like uh the chief's line on that like it's it's in her it's in her bones her bones are rotten and seeing that impacted DMA like that other than Cavill's speech these scenes are probably the best scenes in the episode.
>> Yeah. Uh yeah, and um Galen says he has an idea uh that can help. There's something on the bay ship that can make it stronger, but it's biological. Um and uh Adama is very much against this. You know, you asked me to do this job, what's it worth to you? And Adama is staunchly against it. Which is I I will say there is something interesting here that like the thing that Adama is rejecting is the biological element of it. uh when he wants to save the technological part of the ship, which is seemingly what you would think would be the opposite when he's like anti-sylon, which would read as technological, you know what I mean? I think it's just a little inversion of it.
>> It's biological technology.
>> Yes. Biological tech. I I get I get I like textually I get the reason, but it's just kind of it's one of those things that kind of gets at the um uh contradictory nature and the fact that it's like all these things kind of interweave and we sort of it again the show is not smart enough to necessarily get at it but it's something that I do like which is uh this idea if you anyone ever reads Donna J. Herway and the cyborg manifesto which uh again was something that I discovered through galact through battle galactic I love John and then I found Donna J. Heroway who wrote this beautiful book called the cyborg manifesto that everyone should read. But it is literally like how our society creates hierarchies of like man is above woman and man is above technology and man is above nature and man is above d and it creates these us versus them sort of narratives. Um man is uh god is above man and duh and it says these things are separate and hierarchical when in truth all of these things interweave with each other.
technology interweavves with nature. You know, it's not technology versus nature.
They're they're part of each other.
Human men, man, and woman are part of each other. Like, they're all interweaving and intermixing in different varying ways. Um, and they're not against each other. So, we are all in some ways cyborgs. And so, I like this thematically, even if the show is not smart enough to get at it, even though it kind of thematically wants to.
um which is the idea that like technology and biology and nature are not as oppositional as they appear to be. Um again, >> yeah, and where they're going with this because yes, the Adama will eventually sign off on this whole thing and I get how it fits into the themes and where it seems like it's going. I would have found it more interesting if I'm not even saying that Adama should have refused the repair. I would have found it more interesting if they just couldn't fix this >> and they were just at a point where like the one thing that's been the constant, the one thing that was defending us is on its last legs and about to fall apart.
Now what? Yeah, >> I I would have found that, especially as you're in the last quarter of your last season, presenting me with something that if we jump this thing one more time, it buckles in on itself.
I will say the idea of the idea of presenting a fix so that that's no longer the case >> feels a little cheap.
>> What I what I will say is that becomes more textual later on. Like this doesn't fully fix the problem either. I think it's just more of a this will give as we as the show will say. Uh this will give us just a little bit more time than it would have otherwise. Um but I I like So they're kind of having their cake and eating it too. I guess a little bit is what's going on here. Um but it but I I >> let me put it this way. And this is the this is one of the episodes where I said I like it a lot. Again, this episode has a lot of problems. It still has many of the problems that the show does. What I will say is this episode is for a lot of the thematic reasons that I'm drawing out right now, the one that sparked so much of me in a lot of ways. Like again, like is this show the best version of this? No. I have since found many other TV shows, movies, art, made some of it myself that uh gets further into some of these ideas. Uh, but this is definitely the show that sparked my exploration of transhumanism concepts and the idea of the cyborg manifesto and uh these ideas that we think of when it comes to, you know, Christianity and Christianity creating these like weird [ __ ] hierarchies going back to like um the Adam and Eve storyline. In fact, I I'll call out right now um I'm working on a I just finished a script for a video that'll be going up on my channel at some point about the movie Obsession that gets at a lot of these same ideas and like how women are sort of seen to be as made for man. Uh going back to like Pyon or also Christian's view of the Garden of Eden story um and how that gets created. So any anyways, this show definitely sparked a love of and interest in these themes that heavily influenced me to this day and have become obsessive themes for me to this day. Um, and also influenced trans [ __ ] in me. So I'll give, like I said, problematic show, [ __ ] up show, many issues with it. But I I can never I I guess what I will say is uh for this episode and some of its many themes especially gets into the end of the series certainly was influential for me. So >> yeah. Yeah. Anyways, >> I will be very very curious um if you end up having to do a video on this full show a after we're done. Uh, and if you do, just do me a favor. Carve out a section for me to go off.
>> All right, I will. I mean, I already told >> because I I don't have it in me to write a whole video about this [ __ ] thing.
I I don't. But like, you want to give me space to go off, I will.
>> Well, what I will say is I did a um I I told you this, I think, but I'll I'll just say it here because whatever. Uh I don't think it'll be a problem. Uh I'm pitching a book to a book publisher and one of and it's about like the ways science fiction both limits our imagin and expands our imagination uh is basically the concept of it like the ways that science fiction reflects our modern world and says like this is inevitable. Um because you know look it's in our sci-fi so this is just the way the world is um versus like how science fiction can challenge our modern view of the world. Um, so that's the basic book theme. And one of the chapters I pitched to the publisher was about Battlestar Galactica. And it's basically a a chapter version of our entire journey with this podcast, which is this show meant a lot to me as a kid.
It influenced me heavily as a trans person, but also going back to it as a adult, I'm like, this is terrible. And I have certainly see all the flaws in it, but like how do you navigate that thing of like this thing was really revolutionary for me as a kid and influenced me to this day. Uh and then you go back to and realize like oh this thing is actually as reflect in this episode somewhat supportive of the things that I would be against within those same themes as we see with the character of Ellen kind of having a transphobic kind of mentality in the show not really being as questioning of her as it should be. So >> yeah.
>> Yeah. So, it's just a pitch of the the chapter that is I think ultimately the if we had to make a thesis statement on this podcast, I think that would be kind of it. So, and that I' I've drugg you along in my self-re revelation to be my uh cleareyed conscience, I guess.
>> Through the [ __ ] muck, you have dragged me inch after inch. Jesus.
>> Thank you for being part of this uh year couple yearong therapy session, Vera.
[laughter] >> Jeez.
>> [gasps] >> Well, anyways, Starbucks is with Anders.
Um, and uh, you know, uh, you know, she says to Anders, um, uh, you know, I got greedy. I thought maybe I was the seven.
I'll give you, and you know, she's like sitting with him. Um, we then have a quick little beat where Adama is in his office, uh, and he looks up and he sees one of the fractures above his office through his, uh, bathroom and into his main corridor. So, he knows like again the the fractures are getting worse on Galactica and it sort of influences him.
Um, then we jump back onto Ellen on the base star today. Uh, Boomer comes in to talk to her. She's like, "How do you stand it that he hates you for the things that he's done?" And they're talking about Saul because she's been drawing Saul, but it's kind of one of those like she's talking about Saul and also Caval um sort of things. And Ellen says maybe he doesn't.
>> Except it doesn't even really make sense that they're trying to make it about both because Saul doesn't hate her >> and never even when he killed her, he didn't hate her.
>> Well, that's what she says. Maybe he doesn't is what she's kind of saying.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. I know. But like that's what I'm saying. Like that the episode presenting it like, "Oh, she could be talking about either one." Like no, she isn't. No, she couldn't. like what what what of the two people this conversation is supposed to be simultaneously about it does not apply.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyways, uh yeah. Uh he said the Simons already. So presumably the Simons know about Ellen at this point. I guess >> I >> the Sims are going to be the one to vivisect her brain.
>> In theory, they would now have to know.
I bet you the show never deals with that.
>> Yeah. Um, uh, Boomer hands her a, uh, hospital gown, but, uh, she turns it down. It's like, it's his final bit of theater. I'm not going to do it. And so she goes out with Boomer, um, to head to surgery, presumably.
>> Yeah.
>> Then we have Tori, Ty, Starbucks, and Gayen waiting for Anders outside of his surgery. It's been two hours. Um, and they said they um would be done by now, but it's been a lot more. Uh, one thing Tori says is like, "Oh, I should have asked him about that fracking song." Uh, so we get a it's a basically the show being like, "Hey, remember the song?
That'll be a thing. Don't worry about that. We remember." Um, but anyways, doctor comes out and Caval Codle come out and says, "Here's our bullet. We repair the artery. He's going to live.
I'm surprised he's not awake already.
His brain is repairing himself, repairing itself." Um, and allows Starbucks to go in and see him.
Um, then we cut to Ellen and Boomer and, uh, Ellen says, "You'll regret your part in this." Um, and uh, Boomer says, "I, you know, I may." And then it turns out she's helping Ellen escape. So, Ellen escapes on a um, a raptor.
>> Yeah. Are we meant to take that Boomer is on that raptor with her or No, >> I don't believe so. I think it's just Ellen. We'll find out next episode, I think. But I I don't think Boomer comes with her.
>> Okay. Because I kind of assumed she did, but the way you were talking about it, like, we don't see the inside of this raptor from when it takes off. And I guess I was just going by precedent, which is how the [ __ ] would Ellen KNOW HOW TO FLY THIS goddamn thing, whereas Boomer would.
>> I was being logical. Heaven for [ __ ] bid.
>> To be fair, uh, Ellen did just get back however much more memories than she would have. So maybe she learned how. I mean, they she also apparently flew a [ __ ] ship across the galaxy to find the original 12 colonies. So she may have >> she was on a ship doesn't mean she flew the ship. No, but I and also let me put it this way. I could yada yada yada.
>> The Raptors are not Sylon Tech.
>> Yeah, >> like Yeah, that's >> I can yada yada.
>> No, I can. Yeah, >> [ __ ] you. Wrong. Plug that hole with a plan while you're at it.
>> Oh, plan. It's f it's it's a [ __ ] it's it's [ __ ] narrative birth control is what that's going to be. attempt to just to just plug up every hole before it gives birth to another [ __ ] disaster of a of a nonsensical plot point.
>> Yeah. Well, anyways, uh we go back to Starbucks seeing Anders. Uh she's talking to him as he's still uh knocked out. She's like, "Hey, Sam, it's going to be okay. You know, you got Silence Rabbit out there. They're hoping for a musical. U better hurry up and get better." And then we get Isa being a [ __ ] >> the the worst bedside manner of any nurse in history. And I used to watch House.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> I've never seen >> I would have CALLED THIS CALLOUS.
>> YEAH. I've never seen Bedside Manor like this because May may I?
>> Yeah. Go for it.
>> Yeah. Cuz Starbucks is like all this, oh, you know, we're we're looking forward to when you're waking up. And Isa just goes, don't bother. He can't hear you. There's no brain activity.
Like the fact >> he's not in there is what she also says.
Yeah.
>> The fact that she leads with don't bother.
What the [ __ ] [laughter] >> Oh my god.
>> Yeah. I was like, Jesus Christ.
So yeah, it was [ __ ] up. It was I I guess the only way I can make that make any level of sense is she's we've gotten hints that she's somewhat Sylon racist.
So I guess maybe that's where it's coming from, but it it does not read in the scene and it's [ __ ] weird. It's [ __ ] cold as [ __ ] >> God damn, man.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, the episode ends out with Adama calling Galen uh and says, "Do whatever you have to do to save our girl." Um and Galen says, "Yes, sir." And Adama hangs up clearly um conflicted about his choice to do this.
>> Yeah.
>> Yep. And that is our episode. So I think we've kind I I already said my piece on this episode.
>> I I think we have gone on more than [laughter] >> uh anything else you want to add, but yeah, I kind of said my thesis on this episode slightly earlier, so I'll leave it there.
Like the to me more than anything else, Caval speech represents like his frustration at at the um the lost potential of what he could have been and how he was forced to be this this other thing that is that is lesser and less complicated and limiting is how I feel about the entire show. Mhm.
>> He he is expressing my frustrations with the show where it's like there was no need for it to be this limited, this shortsighted, this unimaginative.
It could have been so much more. There's no reason why it isn't so much more other than somebody thought the the setting these limiters on what it could have been was better and that person was wrong. Ron.
>> Mhm.
Well, uh I also feel I I should also say we give a lot of [ __ ] to Ron. Deservedly so, but David Ike also deserves some [ __ ] too. He was also the co-creator of the show. So, [snorts] >> sure, both of you. [laughter] There you go. So, I'll I'll I'll go for [ __ ] you, David. Let's [laughter] Let's get that in there. Ron's been told enough times, "Fuck you, David. You should have You should have done more to help. You probably were part of the problem, too. [ __ ] you both. [laughter] Well, like I said, I already said all my thoughts about this episode. It was an influential one for me, but certainly one that uh has not aged well in coming back to it. But, uh, definitely cracked cracked a little egg. I I that's basically what I'll say. [laughter] Cracked a little trans egg back in the day.
>> Look, the the the egg crack moments are precious, but that you can never go home again. They're not always worth revisiting.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, anyways, all that being said, uh, stuff time. Fra >> stuff. You can find my stuff by looking for Council of Geeks. Um, Patreon is what pays the bills and enables me to do this as my living. Uh, the main thing that that funds is the Council of Geeks YouTube channel. New videos every Saturday. Recent videos. Uh, I can tell you what what has gone up recently and will be coming up soon. The problem is I don't know the order that it will be released in. I'm I'm debating this, but I will have recent videos out on yet another attempt to push uh Tilly Norwood, the so-called AI actress. I will have a video talking about um bully narratives and attempts to redeem or create um empathy with bully characters.
Why a recent thing that I saw managed to pull it off when so many things before have bounced me off so [ __ ] hard when they have tried to do that. uh and also a video um discussing the fact that even if uh AI, generative AI, large language models, etc. could do everything that these uh people pushing it claimed that it could do and was flawless and didn't hallucinate and screw up. Even if it was perfect, it would still destroy society and your life in specific. So, I uh have those videos coming out uh in the new f in the near future or are already out.
Um if you support me on the Patreon, you get early access to those. I'm also doing more with Patreon exclusive stuff.
I've been putting up short videos with u my uh 500 words or less thoughts on my top 100 movies on my letterbox account.
Um which I'm having a lot of fun with.
I'm enjoying doing that.
>> Yeah, I'm enjoying watching those.
Um, and that's the main channel. So, there's also the Breakroom of Geeks. I have been reviewing new episodes of Game Changer on Dropout as they've been coming out. I have been, they probably won't be timely because I'm taking vacation uh later this month. Um, but I will also be doing a review for the second season of X-Men uh 90 uh X-Men 97 and whatever else I have watched, listened to, read, or played lately. Um, and it is also home of this here podcast, what you are listening to. Uh, if you are listening rather than watching and yeah, there's the social media stuff. I don't really care though.
That's all the geeky stuff. There's also the spicy stuff. Um, stuff >> which uh has a number of things attached to it. If you look for Vera Wild spell wde the YouTube channel hasn't been updated in a little while. I do have something I'm working on. I'm just debating whether it's going to go on the Vera Wild channel or on the main channel. It's one of those things where thematically if it's the Vera Wild channel better, but also it won't get viewed nearly as much and I need to decide what I want to do with that. Um, but you can also find Vera Wild uh and get increasingly spicy content on Tik Tok, Blue Sky, Only Fans, Fansly, Loyal Fans, Many Vids, Clips for Sale, and Pornhub.
>> Well, you can find me at Jesse Jinder on YouTube where I do video essay style of stuff. Uh, will have a video on Starfleet Academy out. I swear to God.
>> I'm I'm so I'm sorry. I I'm sorry. What was that? That video that I have you on record at least three or four times saying will definitely be out by the time you're hearing this. That video, the new Fangi video that you have BROUGHT FORTH TO TRY AND MAKE US FORGET THAT YOU ALSO HAVEN'T released the Fangi video.
>> To be fair, the Starblade Academy video should have been out today uh as of this recording. Uh, but I got a an offer for a um for an ad sponsorship on the video that I could not turn down. Uh, but because of that, legally, because of the contract I signed, it has to go out on the 16th or 17th. So, just look for July 16th or 17th. The video will be out on those days uh for sure or else I have broken a legal contract. So, >> okay. And so then that brings us back to the question fori video when >> someday if you dream hard enough >> you need you need to understand listeners and viewers it's done it's been done >> this is not a matter of her promising it but like continuing to work on it. It's been done for close to a year.
>> Yeah. I also shot it in 2024, so it took me a year to edit it and then took me a year to get it out there. It's t it's timeless. It's a timeless video. Um, so I just save it. Um, anyways, >> I'm going to release that as a eulogy on your [laughter] >> I'm going to die. If I die before that video is released, you have my permission to release it for me.
Fine. Uh, anyways, yeah, Jessie gender.
Uh, join me on Jess Gender after dark red news, reviews, reactions. I believe Star Trek Starfleet or not Star of the Academy, Strange New Worlds, will be starting up uh around this time. So, check out my reviews on that over there.
Um I also have a bunch of podcasts. Uh Starter Trek, which is the one I mentioned before, Tony. I'm on the Cast of Kings, which is the House of the Dragon podcast I did with Kim Renfro.
Check that out over on Decoding TV on YouTube or just search Cast of Kings. Uh I also do the genre fiction podcast, My Friend Giraffe, which is my more general science fiction podcast. Um, I am on Blue Sky Instagram. I am on Nebula streaming services that house my movie identities as well as the upcoming show subliminal that I mentioned. And I am also on Patreon that helps me pay my bills. Please support me over there. Uh, all that being said, anything else of it.
>> No.
>> All righty then. I hope you all my friends live long and prosper.
>> Be seeing you.
>> Not live long and Tuesday.
>> Live long and Tuesday. Oh god. Live long and Tuesday.
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