| DAY BREAK | Corruption: Governance and Politics [part 1]

追加: 2026-04-29

[00:00:08]Welcome back. You're watching Dre on this 28th day of April 2026. In studio I have Nelson Harvey who is former president of the Law Societ of Kenya.

[00:00:17]Good morning.

[00:00:17]>> Good morning Sam.

[00:00:18]>> And I have Wilson Suson who is a former nominated member of parliament. Good morning.

[00:00:24]>> Good morning. And you're still waiting for the arrival of Dana Gishen who's the executive director of TISA that is the Institute of Social Accountability and Kaw Wam from Inuka Kenya. And as soon as they're here, they'll be joining the conversation. But early on, I promised you that you look at the front page of the Daily Nation and the headline story there is Gashagua's U-turn. He argues harried impeachment proceedings. So a house resolution sent to the Senate at night. Riad Gashagua who was removed from office as deputy president in 2024 following impeachment by parliament has abandoned his quest to be reinstated to the high court rule his ouster was unconstitutional. Instead the DCP leader is pursuing compensation for the salary and allowances he would have pocketed had he served the first or rather the 5-year term signaling his intent to rescue his future political career as he earns a fat check. The story continues on page four. Governor wanted by MPs of a suspect 14 billion shilling payouts.

[00:01:27]Kakamega Governor Fernandez Barza is among former executives of the Kenya electricity transmission company Kraco wanted by MPs to answer questions in irregular payments of 14 billion shillings in way leave compensation. The National Assembly Public Accounts Committee wants Mr. Baraza to respond to queries raised in an audit including inflated payments and this is of course several years after he left that position to go run for governorship of Kakamega in 2022. Sebastian Saw super shoes and supersonic marathon speed. Our story continues on page 36. They're talking about the shoes that he wore on the day that um he broke that record, becoming the first man to ever run under two hours in a competitive environment.

[00:02:16]Now, from clinics to clo clothes lines, the fragile life of a mosquito net is another story that is on the healthy nation. And um the back page of uh the sports uh daily nation saw super shoe sub to our marathon fit is the details about what we're talking about. Upper material ultra light precisely supportive and engineered to feel weightless. A light strike pro Evo form next gen light strike provo form engineered for best-in-class energy return. New stiffening element. All new carbon fiber infused and a grim um provides a tuned stiffness and increased form amount underfoot is the details about the shoe that he wore and why that technology may have assisted to break that important record that he did.

[00:03:11]That's how the daily nation is looking like this morning and uh of course as people continue today just what an achieve a achievement he has had. I don't know um Wilson Susan if you have any thoughts about um this record-breaking and history making situation that saw has made I I think uh it is very phenomenal.

[00:03:36]Remember Kipog in in Inos supported program did 15959.

[00:03:44]>> Yeah.

[00:03:44]>> And uh Sawe did 15930 which is uh an improvement by 30 seconds.

[00:03:52]>> And I think uh it's something to be extremely proud of. M >> it's a global event is a global occurrence and when I saw yesterday the various global major magazines as a splash on the headline >> of uh of saw I think it is something that we we we really got to be proud of and when I did comparison >> the headlines of our local newspapers uh it was a contrast because We see politics in our papers but in other global newspapers.

[00:04:31]>> Yeah.

[00:04:31]>> We saw SA as a major occurrence that was celebrated by other other media outlets across the world. So this is something that is uh very historical in the civilization uh of humanity and in the sports world and it's something that the country should uh stop for a minute or two. uh to celebrate.

[00:04:57]>> All right. And of course uh still more interesting details on page 35 of the Daily Nation. SA gets 34.5 million shillings in prize money and bonuses for winning, but that could triple to 129 million shillings based on contracts signed with his sponsors. And um they're also talking about what that means. Saw 31 collected a winner's prize package of $55,000.

[00:05:24]That is about 7.2 million. He'll get to share 19.5 million bonus with Ethiopia's Yum Kelcha and of course that continues in tabulation and Diana says good morning Diana.

[00:05:37]>> Morning sir. How are you?

[00:05:38]>> Good. It's good to see you.

[00:05:41]>> Um have you any thoughts about Saw and this record?

[00:05:46]>> You know is morphologically and historically well oriented to comment on matters.

[00:05:53]>> Yes.

[00:05:54]Not just sports.

[00:05:56]>> Anybody?

[00:05:59]And uh I I agree with him entirely.

[00:06:01]>> Yes.

[00:06:03]>> So yours is to echo. Mine is to echo it.

[00:06:06]>> Okay. Diana, any thoughts? I don't know if you can run even if it's running away. You can run away.

[00:06:15]>> I can. No. Nowadays we are not even running away from my safety used to be tear gas. We are no longer running away from tear gas >> but um >> you can run for office >> I am not sure I am not sure I can into an office I don't know I have never run anything um athletically no I am not talented in any way >> um I follow people at the very end when we are cheering >> our athlete it. So I associate myself with so even my president emmeritus has no comment. Neither do I. But well done.

[00:06:59]>> Okay. All right. Thank you so much. And um we're still waiting for KUA but as soon as he gets here he will join the panel. Now this morning I want us to discuss the situation of corruption in the country and several leaders have spoken about it. There are various reports whether it's from the talking about uh uh the bribes that people have to give to even get a job. I think um we at about 85,000 shillings uh to get a job within the public service but also the report by transparency international in 2025 tells us a deeper story of how people who interacted with the police 70% of them who have found themselves in situations of bribery but they're also talking about in the judiciary it actually leads it may not be one of the leading in terms of uh prevalence of corruption but it leads in the amount because on average 18,800 is the money that people who reported corruption cited. But at the same time, you also find there is a a growing prevalence uh in corruption in the education sector now reaching about 55% uh a rise of more than 30% over the last couple of years. Um I begin with you Javi as you look at this because we have reports on a regular basis whe it's annually or every few years but we still struggle to understand how best to deal with it regardless of the laws that we have and the institutions we have.

[00:08:32]How would you describe the challenge of corruption in Kenya?

[00:08:36]I mean corruption eptoomizes the failure of good governance in Kenya in all the three arms of government starting with executive itself which is so imbued in uh in in corruption going to a large extent to the legislature and fundamentally the judiciary.

[00:08:58]In fact, how I wish the ethics and anti-corruption commission will stop concentrating on what we call small fish. This story we are told every day that policemen are corrupt is Policemen uh always just demand 100 shillings from Matus at most if you are in trouble 1,000 shillings. It is incomparable to the 10 million that judges demand is incomparable to the 500,000 shillings that magistrates demand.

[00:09:33]But uh fundamentally it is a systemic problem, one that requires that uh the individuals who put in office be individuals who have passed the threshold of accountability and integrity.

[00:09:50]I mean, I'm not asking that we go to heaven and bring angels to come and and serve here in Kenya, but I'm asking that Kenyans demand accountability and integrity on those who are in office either elected or appointed. That is the basic bare minimum.

[00:10:08]>> Mhm.

[00:10:08]>> That can be pursued to eradicate this malaise that is corruption.

[00:10:13]>> You've said a few figures there that are interesting. The judges will demand 10 million shillings, the magistrates 500,000 shillings. How does this happen and in what category of matters?

[00:10:25]Look, uh we we've had this discussion before. Often corruption permeates most in private matters before the court.

[00:10:36]Matters to do with contract, matters to do with land. Land mostly.

[00:10:41]>> Mhm.

[00:10:43]And Sam, it is not a story that we tell from the emptiness of our head. My phone is clogged with complaints from advocates and litigants on how they've had to pay money to magistrates on how they've had to pay money to charges.

[00:11:04]You know, it may seem like a tell, but it is not a tell. is the reality and it burdens me so much to imagine that somebody will apply to be a magistrate.

[00:11:17]Somebody will apply to be a judge paid from our taxes yet this person demands to be paid tens of millions to deliver justice actually not even to deliver justice to auction justice to the highest bidder. It's a big problem and the admission of the existence of this problem has been made by none other than the chief justice herself. The collaboration corroboration of this uh problem has been made by the ethics and anti-corruption commission. Not so long ago, the ethics and anti-corruption commission wanted to arrest a judge. The judge rushed to court and got an order to stop arrest. I mean a year ago a magistrate was arrested by the ethics and anti-corruption commission with treated money. She rushed to court. She obtained an order to stop our investigations. We have close to seven judges right now with pending cases either before the judicial service commission, the DCI and or the ethics and anti-corruption commission which cannot progress because they have halted this constitutional process. They are fighting corruption. You know corruption fights back.

[00:12:29]But uh it's not limited to the judiciary.

[00:12:32]>> Sure. I mean even I look at today's uh newspapers you can see a governor is being grilled.

[00:12:41]I've seen Gaid though write about the corruption in in in this administration where you have to pay to be employed.

[00:12:48]>> Yeah. There are tells I don't know whether can confirm >> that as soon as we assumed power a few years ago >> people had to be paid to be shortlisted for interviews for certain positions so you didn't pay just like myself poorly that's why you're not in power maybe what was from you as nobody can ask money for I mean they will be highlighted within seconds.

[00:13:22]>> Okay. Okay. Now you have interesting stories. We'll get back to you. But Diana, so reports every other year. Um but still we behave as if we don't understand what you're talking about and that's why and shortly we'll be listening to what the prime cabinet secretary Ma Mudavadi was saying about corruption. But why is it that despite what Nelson Hav is describing here and you'd say it's from um witnessed experiences, I don't want to say lived experiences, witnessed experiences. Why is it that we still struggling to figure out what strategy do we use to deal with it?

[00:14:01]Um I think this this just goes back especially to the Jubilee regime and now Kenya Kwanza that um the then president Kyata said and left it at just an exclamation.

[00:14:20]>> Mhm.

[00:14:20]>> Help me. Um nobody sought to nobody then helped the president. people decided therefore that this will be a country of the rule of corruption not the rule of law and when Kenya Kwanza was um campaigning and I'm glad Javi and so are here they can tell us whether they thought about what to do about corruption because the advisers of the president said it is not something that they will deal with most recently I was on a discussion with the economic adviser to the president who said people who raise issues of corruption are lazy and not innovative.

[00:15:09]So addressing corruption or seeking to address corruption is considered not innovative in this country. Yet corruption is a reason why um the judiciary you know I I would say some don't don't quote those EC figures.

[00:15:28]>> I I attended that launch and I honestly think the EAC can do better.

[00:15:34]They cannot when they are launching a state of corruption report it cannot be oh our bribes moved from 4,000 to 6,000 per bribe. That is not what we are dealing with in this country.

[00:15:47]>> Yeah.

[00:15:48]>> Corruption is the reason that defiled girls and boys are not accessing justice. When their perpetrators walk free, even some of them get into high offices and and so on. It is the reason that our health services are collapsing.

[00:16:06]It is the reason we have pending bills.

[00:16:08]It is the reason um we have the current budget deficit that we do.

[00:16:15]The then president um huru and ec said we were losing 2 billion. The Kenya association of manufacturers said 2024 we were losing 3 billion a year. When you accumulate that it comes to a trillion that is a budget deficit which we are doing. We we now >> you said three billion a year or three billion a day.

[00:16:37]>> Sorry. 3 billion a day. Sorry. Um mathematics can be hard. Uh sometimes three billion a day.

[00:16:44]>> Mhm.

[00:16:45]>> 3 billion a day. 365 is close to a trillion.

[00:16:49]>> Mhm.

[00:16:49]>> So every time right now our deficit has grown. We are headed to 4 billion a day.

[00:16:54]>> Mhm. But we are investing in how to divest, sell IPC or create funds and so on with no proper push to arrest corruption once and for all. When people are in power, the only person who is immune from prosecution for any crimes is only the president.

[00:17:19]>> Right?

[00:17:21]By now we should have seen arrests for the sugar. We were poisoned through corruption.

[00:17:28]>> Are you saying that it's only the president who can be corrupt?

[00:17:30]>> No. No. I've not said only said I've said the only person who is immune currently.

[00:17:36]>> Yeah. From prosecution.

[00:17:38]>> From prosecution and arrest is the president.

[00:17:40]>> But he can be impeached for corruption.

[00:17:42]>> He can be impeached for corruption. Very very correct. And after he leaves office, if he is culpable of corruption, then he must also be prosecuted.

[00:17:54]>> But what we are seeing is EAC, the office of the director of public prosecution, DCI arresting who? Protesters. Those are the people they like to arraign with a lot of drama before courts. Well, the people who are truly killing people every day across each and every sector continue to grow in stature in wealth then they'll come and bribe voters and voters will will vote for them. It is very sad that is where >> um so then because you've been there in terms of you've been in parliament initially you've managed a union and across the education sector ac across politics there are complaints whether are we struggling to deal with what exactly it is >> yes Sam I think this is a very critical topic that the country should stop and and uh engage in a very deep conversation about because our country cannot progress while we still operate within a very deep ecosystem of uh cartels of corruption everywhere and uh as Rley has been put by senior council here.

[00:19:21]>> Yeah.

[00:19:22]>> You find this in all arms of government.

[00:19:25]>> Mhm. It's in all arms of government and if it is in all these institutions then there is little that can be done and particularly when it is in the judiciary because the last point of dealing with crimes uh related to corruption is at the judiciary. But it is at the judiciary where all these efforts are frustrated and I think the judiciary has to sit and reflect within itself. uh some if you look at there's all forms of corruption like if I scan through >> the social sector that I've worked in for example >> if you look at health >> uh every activity within the health sector is about corruption in every in almost basically every institution to the extent that even now the president has confessed and it's a fact that the the the barriers of rolling out an effective UHC are corruption cartels. So indeed so that when you talk of deeply embedded vicious cels in the different sectors is hampering progress in in in every sector both in the social sector and of course in governance I've given you for example in SHA I don't think uh we we can go deep to flag out the facts you know the fake claims and uh fake procurements and procurement officers in almost every government department is is is is an avenue of making kills uh centers of abuses and the president has previously has talked about uh government officers and government officers being incompetent, conflicted and of course ineptitude also in running offices and this is this this compromises governance. I've given about the health sector. Now we are talking about education and you know if corruption uh can take deep roots in the education sector then we have destroyed the very uh pillar of of ethics of growing ethics uh in the society because what it means is that we will be manufacturing and churning out learners who are technically corrupt.

[00:21:50]quote unquote and what do you expect in the daily normal life we'll have a country >> but how does corruption manifest in the education sector >> yeah if you talk about in the education sector I I think a lot has been pointed out uh uh take for example let's speak free education free education funds >> is it giving the value for the child uh in totality we have seen issues within the the the funding aspect We've seen illegal levies. We have seen uh money cannot be accounted at certain points. Those are facts.

[00:22:31]Yeah, there's wastage and deliberate stealing, the deliberate abuse of uh uh procurement processes and uh definitely certain funds cannot be accounted. You see some schools are able to use repair and maintenance installations and build their schools others cannot account for that. So that then >> it's taking root. We've seen even in terms of employment you've talked about that we've seen sale of employment forms for teachers. If a teacher can buy an employment form, what do you expect that teacher to do in future when he rises to the office of management? These are facts that we need to talk about and this is what the president pointed out and I think uh we we we cannot keep talking about this corruption issue as if it is a story for news and it ends with it. But I think as a country we must stop and agree that corruption must end and it must be punished and uh the executive cannot succeed and uh without effective uh uh action from the judiciary and parliament because parliament must develop enabling legislation. Judiciary must ensure that prosecution is done.

[00:23:54]Not just prosecution but timely and prompt. If you talk of the Asian tigers because we are going to Singapore that's a fact.

[00:24:02]>> It's good to go to Singapore. The president has pronounced it's a yes.

[00:24:07]It's a fact. But then we cannot go within the ecosystem of corruption. If we are fighting, if corruption is compromising a pillar like Sha the the insurance the gods of money making within that space the cartels if the cartels are in the in the housing dealer >> because they're also losing within that space if the cartels are in the agriculture sector where you make the ordinary farmer not to afford fertilizers not to afford farm inputs and you concentrate the monop monopoly of agriculture to only the rich and those who have then I don't think we'll be headed anywhere. The moment we slay corruption and make life affordable >> at the last mile end of the user services of uh basic basic needs of Kenyans and government services then that is when we'll go to Singapore and I think that's when we'll go to Singapore that's a fact and and we have seen and we have seen the eviction of cartels in the sugar sector all of a sudden Kenya can almost produce surplus sugar if if if well managed We have seen in coffee almost uh the the the prices of coffee has gone up three times from one from 50 to almost 150 basically because of dealing with with the cartels and uh we can go on and on it is possible to deliver every Kenyan by dealing with this cartel. We must all agree as a country, the country belongs to all of us, our children and our generations to come.

[00:25:45]>> And the only sure way of fastracking the development of this country is to deal with these cartels of corruption very honestly and viciously. So >> now a few issues have come up and I want us to take a short break. You've also spoken about people are buying employment letters. We want to hear more about how that manifests. Who is the seller? Who is the buyer? Is there a middleman? Um how much is it? So that we then know that chain and can start to think about the strategies. Also you at home or wherever you are watching us from. What are your thoughts in terms of the corruption situation in the country because it appears the panel is in agreement that is a big problem and it is if you had to look at uh the delivery of services especially in the social sector in the country. But what would you propose to be the solution uh to deal with corruption in Kenya? You write to us at citizen TV Kenya at sanguku citizen debreak that is onx and you can also text us via 22422. We'll sample some of your concerns and views as we continue the conversation. Stay tuned for that.