NFA Live! Bitcoin in 2026

Added: 2026-06-04

[00:00:02]Hello everyone. Uh apologies for the slightly late start. Welcome to another episode of NFA Live. Um it is uh well looking at the crypto charts. Obviously crypto has been waiting for this moment, waiting for NFA to start uh because they've only just uh started climbing back up again. Um so let's hope it continues. But I am joined as ever by Ben. Hello Ben. How you doing?

[00:00:26]>> Pretty good. How are you?

[00:00:28]>> Good, thanks. Good to see you. And of course Rob as well. Hello Rob.

[00:00:33]>> Hello everybody.

[00:00:35]>> Okay. Uh good to see you. Um and uh Ben has Ben has left the chat. So it looks like it's just you and me, Rob. Um >> Hey.

[00:00:47]>> Oh. Oh no. He's back.

[00:00:48]>> Sorry. I I I heard I heard the stream coming from my other computer and I was like I can't listen. [laughter] >> Okay. Um so uh we are going to uh we're going to launch into it. We're going to do about sort of half an hour or so um talking about some of the things that are that have been on my mind over the past week or so. Um and we will try and take some questions from you guys as well if we have time. But uh we need to address um the thing that is hanging over the whole crypto market at the moment and the the catalyst that sort of sent this uh sent Bitcoin lower and of course the rest of the crypto market along with it. And that is of course uh strategy selling Bitcoin. Not I should say for the first time. They did actually sell back in 2022 I think. But um certainly this is the first time since then. And uh Michael Sailor has been very much aboard the strategy will never sell train. Uh but he has now jumped off that train. Um and so yeah towards the end of last month strategy sold a grand total of 32 uh Bitcoin about $2.5 million.

[00:02:03]So, I want to get your I want to get your thoughts on this one, guys, because uh is this I mean, is selling 32 Bitcoin actually a big deal or is it just kind of a cover up for a market that actually has sort of very little appeal at the moment? Um what are your thoughts on on Sailor uh paper handing uh if you like um and less than a less than a tenth of a percent of his actual overall stack?

[00:02:30]Um Rob, can I start with you on this one? Sure. I think uh and everybody's been hotly debating this for quite some time, but I look at it and I just think to myself, first of all, I'm glad he actually did sell a little bit because when he came out in the uh Bitcoin conference, I want to say it was two years ago, and he said, "You never maybe it's three, he said, you never sell your Bitcoin." And as soon as he said that, I thought to myself, that's not going to go over well because the people that listen to Sailor and think that he is a deity are going to never sell their Bitcoin. And for some people, they're like, I'm going to hold it forever because that's it. That's great. But for some people, they actually want to take a profit because they can't curl up next to their Bitcoin to keep them warm and feed their kids. So, when I heard that, I'm like, uh, we'll see that how how that works out. And then of course as time goes on net then he said you know I shouldn't have said that. I should have said what I meant to say which was you never want to be a net negative seller of Bitcoin. But of course if I say that there's not as much of a punch for that line. So fast forward to a couple of days ago when we learned that he actually did sell. I look at this and I say well at some point you're going to have to sell. This is just the normalization. And the question then becomes, are you selling because there is more selling to be had? Are you selling because of the triple rating that you are missing out on? And you think that you have to actually sell to show people that it's not a Ponzi scheme, even though in all honesty, it really doesn't matter in the long run.

[00:04:00]And then you have to think to yourself, well, what about these dividends? Are you going to actually be able to pay them as time goes on? Of course, people are screaming at me saying, "Yes, absolutely he can." But as a reminder, those dividends, other companies have stopped and reduced those dividend payouts. This isn't something that is outside of the extreme. You've got General Electric in 2018, they cut it by 50%. 3M in 2024, again, 50 to 60%. Raw Greens cut 40% in 2024. AT&T cut almost 70% of their dividends. And now we're going to see probably as it comes that I personally own a little bit of stretch. I just wanted to see what it was. I want to diversify and it's supposed to keep myself at $100 and right now I think it's at correct me in the comments section roughly $94. So it's down a little bit but that's the whole valuation to come back up. I'm the dividend is 11%. Right now I am down I am down roughly four to 6% and um that's where we're at. I think to myself that um I hope this is not I hope this is one of the endings but it is interesting how things play into like a time frame.

[00:05:11]Remember in 2022 when things started to collapse and I'm not saying that micro strategy is going to collapse but remember in 2022 when we had a Voyager Celsius issue around June or so and then everything was fine for a little bit a little bounce and then of course in November what did we get FTX. So, let's see if we can continue this and it's not so bad. But, um I think it's um it is an interesting thing to watch. That's all I have for that one.

[00:05:40]>> Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah.

[00:05:43]It's um I I just want to draw your attention. Let me just add this here because our uh our Twitter team sort of broke this down. It was interesting what you were saying about Stretch um Rob about STRC. Yeah, it's currently trading I think around sort of $95.

[00:05:57]um $100 is par, but yeah, if it goes below 95, then they have to raise the dividend rate by 50 basis points or more. And obviously, if they raise the dividends, then that means uh the cash burden gets larger. Uh which means they might have to sell more Bitcoin. Um or you know, at the very least, they're not going to be uh they're not going to be buying at the same rate that they were.

[00:06:23]Um, so yeah, it's an interesting it's an it's it's an interesting corner uh that they seem to be painting themselves into at the moment. Um, and you do I mean I I I do get what I do get this uh comment tired of these main characters like Sailor. It it does Yeah, it is a bit frustrating when so much of the market seems to be hinging on, you know, one person or one uh company's decisions.

[00:06:49]Um, but Ben, what's your outlook on this? I mean, do you think this is do you think this is a bit of a smoke screen really? I mean, they didn't sell much BTC. I think Sailor said it was to sort of test he was testing liquidity. I mean, do you buy that? Is this are we getting are we getting our our knickers in a twist about nothing?

[00:07:10]>> I mean, I think that's the narrative, right? But a lot of times the midterm year's price drops down into June and then we actually often find a low in June. It's not usually like the low, but it's pretty it can be pretty close to the low. Like last cycle, we dropped to I think 20K in June, and then we just dropped to 15K in November, and then that was it. So, I I think um I think it's a convenient narrative to justify what's happening and people, you know, want to blame something or someone because they're not often willing to take responsibility for their own investment decisions. So, but I I don't how can I how can I fault Sailor for selling when I sell Bitcoin to [laughter] like I'd be the biggest hypocrite to be like, "Oh, he can't sell, but I can." I I think he did sort of put him he he sort of put himself into a box um in in some ways. And I I do think I I do not own uh Strat or any of that stuff. And I one of the main reasons is because I I just think that like everything else in crypto, altcoins, miners, crypto companies, stocks, they all bleed to Bitcoin. And if they all bleed to Bitcoin, I think the treasury companies will probably bleed to Bitcoin, too. And and maybe it bleeds to Bitcoin because they end up having to sell a lot of Bitcoin to fund these dividends and stuff. I I don't know exactly why, but it's not part of And the other thing, too, is, you know, I know there's a lot of people that that claim to understand exactly what's happening uh with all that stuff. But, you know, I it's just too it's just too much for me, you know. I It's just too much for me if I I don't want to get into the weeds of all the all those different products. I think it's just easier. If you want if you want Bitcoin then just buy Bitcoin, you know, like what >> why go buy all this other stuff that is, you know, going to benefit from Bitcoin because in his historically a lot of people have done that again with altcoins and and you know, treasury companies in general uh and I mean Sailor that his company is not as egregious, but a lot of the I mean there's a lot of treasury companies that only exist to extract value from the shareholders. Right. That's bit as I mean a lot of them are down a ton, you know, and I just I think Bitcoin represents the best of the cryptoverse and everything else will eventually bleed to it. And so I don't own it. And the reason I don't is is not because I want it to fail. I would I would prefer that it does not fail. But the reason I don't own it is because in basically because Bitcoin does not need Micro Strategy to survive, but Micro Strategy needs Bitcoin. And I'd rather own the thing that sort of the underlying asset rather than own things that depend on that asset.

[00:09:55]>> Yeah, very well said. Very well said. I I agree. And um [gasps] I think there are a couple of other things worth pointing out as well in regards to this.

[00:10:03]I mean, one thing, and this is something I said in the video we did on this yesterday or the day before. Um you know, Michael Sailor said was saying that they weren't going to sell and we took his word for it. And if there's one thing you really shouldn't do in this industry and probably, you know, most other industries as well, but certainly in crypto, if there's one thing you shouldn't do, it's take someone's word for it. I I kind of feel that's a lesson we probably should have all learned, and if we haven't, then we really haven't been paying attention. So, there's that.

[00:10:34]And I also want to point you in the direction of the fact that of of certain uh ETF outflows as well. I think we are now on the 13th consecutive day of of outflows from the ETF. So, and again, this is something I this is something I talked about in the in the video yesterday. It sort of seems like, okay, uh Sailor is sailor is selling and he said he wouldn't and blah blah blah and strategy is overleveraged or it's, you know, made things way more complicated than it needs to be. But the fact is that uh you know these ETF outflows have been heavy and steady for you know coming on for two weeks now. Um and that I think is kind of the um uh the bigger the the bigger picture here you know okay Sailor uh Sailor is a part of it. I think Sailor is responsible for this kind of downturn in sentiment. um as if it couldn't go any lower. But really, I think the the the the crisis is kind of playing out in the ETF market.

[00:11:40]>> Yes, it is. And it's one of the big ones. Black Rockck, the big bleeder.

[00:11:45]>> Remember, and I've said this many times, when when thematic ETFs are launched, usually over the next several years, they underperform the the market. They underperform the S&P. And I don't think Bitcoin will be any different. That's just the way it usually works. like you know if you look at most thematic ETFs they they tend to underperform for a while. It doesn't mean they won't ever outperform again. I think they I think Bitcoin probably will but usually for the ne for the because if you think about it in order to launch a thematic ETF you have to have a lot of interest and in order to have a lot of interest you have to be coming off of a long bull market right so usually thematic ETFs are launched near the end of bull markets not at the beginning of them.

[00:12:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. Very true. And I do want to draw attention to that comment as well.

[00:12:28]Technically, Sailor didn't sell.

[00:12:30]Technically, Strategy sold. Um, we may need to differentiate between the two.

[00:12:34]Yeah, I I guess if we're I guess we're splitting hairs. I mean, yeah, it's it's strategy that is the uh the seller. I'm sure Michael Sailor uh is still sitting on his personal stash. Um I I would imagine that's going nowhere. Okay. Uh let's move on then. Um I want to talk about some I want to talk about something a bit more non-crypto now. Um, and that's some of these upcoming IPOs.

[00:12:57]We've got SpaceX coming up. Open AAI coming up. Uh, Anthropic recently filed their draft S1. Uh, so they're planning an IPO, too. So, my and we're talking I mean certainly in the case of SpaceX and OpenAI, we're talking uh trillions. I think SpaceX is actually targeting two trillion um which is which is kind of wild. Um, but yeah, we're talking very very big numbers here. So my question to you gentlemen is are you at all tempted by hypeheavy stocks like these or are you just happy to own them uh via your index funds because they are going to go into these index funds. We can discuss that in a bit more detail as well. But I just yeah I want to get your thoughts on on what you on how you see these big IPOs. Is it something that we should be excited about or is it kind of, you know, a bit more hype and really be uh it might be something best avoided? Rob, what do you think?

[00:13:56]>> Well, if you take a look, let me just show everybody this. See, I can throw this up. You can throw up the window.

[00:14:04]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:14:07]IPOs themselves. If you take a look over the last five or so years, we can see that some IPOs do fantastic and some IPOs don't do as well as you thought they would. But going down the list here, taking a look at ARM microprocessors and things like that.

[00:14:22]They IPOed in 2023. The IPO price started at 51 after about a month or so 82. And then and now and of course this is a little bit off because uh it's uh generated yesterday 411 that's a 700% growth and you can take a look at Reddit Circle Corweave also another big one for AI Snowflake Airbnb instart and so on and so forth. You'll notice that recently they've done pretty well as far as IPOs. However, if you take a look at some that were born into one of the uh um big bull markets, which would be Rivian, Coinbase, and Robin Hood. Robin Hood is the only one in 2021 that went from $38 5542 and nine in only a year. Of course, that was because it went right into the bare market. Now, if you would have held it for the whole time, you're up a whopping 115%. But she had to do that for five years. And then Coinbase, [laughter] this is probably why everybody booed their their commercial at the halftime show in the Super Bowl. They went from 250 and then roughly in a year was 160 and they're still down 34%. And Rivian, which is one of the competitors to Tesla, you can see how well it's doing, is down 34%. So these companies that are coming up for the IPO for SpaceX and Anthropic, they might do pretty well, but we are going into I think a relatively big bare market. I know people say, "Well, that's not true because the market just keeps going up.

[00:15:57]Look at the S&P 500. Look at all the AI stocks." Yes, it is. But if you take a look at the revenue that the AI companies are actually generating like OpenAI and Enthropic, the revenue isn't that vast to say that yeah, 1.75 or two trillion, especially Enthropic. So I take a look at this and I say, you know, probably in time it'll do pretty well, but if you just take a look at the last bull run where it actually went to as far as IPOs, I don't see myself getting into that super heavy. But I think uh Ben said this last week, which is uh I don't want to bet against uh Elon Musk and everything that actually happens isn't uh the greatest. So SpaceX might be something to look into, but I just take a look at historically speaking and where we're going. I don't know if the market can absorb that. And maybe that's why gold's down 20%. Because people are getting away from a store of value into more risky ass assets. Maybe that's why Bitcoin's down so much because they're going into more risky assets even though the valuations I don't think it really show that's the great thing. Anyhow, that's I'm not going to be buying heavily. Maybe a little bit, but I don't see this as like it's going to we're going to have a massive inflow and then it's just going to keep going up forever. I think there's going to be a lot of volatility, especially for these ones.

[00:17:15]>> Yeah. Ben, what about you? Are you excited at all by by owning a chunk of SpaceX or OpenAI or Anthropic or any of these other big ones? Are you are you sort of staying on the sidelines? How are you planning to play this one if at all?

[00:17:30]>> It's a good question. Um so I my my guess is what's going to happen is after first of all as far as the valuations of trillions of dollars we have to ask ourselves what's a few trillion dollars among friends when we have to acknowledge that. Uh but the second thing is my guess is that after the IPOs you'll likely have a correction in the markets because it's going to be a massive liquidity event. Historically there is a correction in the beginning of midterm years and the end of midterm years in the stock market. Um, and normally Bitcoin bottoms during the second correction by the stock market in the midterm year like the end of 2014, the end of 2018 and the end of 2022 corresponded to corrections in the stock market. So my guess is that you know the the IPO will launch, there'll be this surge in price and then you'll see it kind of come back down for at least a few months and and then start to head back up. And I would even argue that I I actually tweeted about this recently.

[00:18:32]Imagine all this money goes into these IPOs, they surge, and then they they drop back down and then people are like, "Oh, you know, all this stuff is overvalued. You look around and like where do you put your money?" And and I was like, "Well, there's Bitcoin and it might be at the end of its bare market, you know, four year cycle bare market at that point." And that could be a nice bull narrative that it just hasn't hasn't really had that catch-up trade yet. So, I I do not bet against Elon Musk ever. And I mean, I do own Tesla. I own a lot of like space exploration type ETFs, like thematic ETFs. And when I when I bought that thematic ETF, guess what? It underperformed the market for for like for like the first couple of years. But then the last year or so, it's actually been doing really well.

[00:19:19]So, um I I like I'm pretty excited about the future. I think there'll probably be a a correction after the IPOs. Like that makes the most amount of sense to me.

[00:19:31]and and then hopefully we can kind of continue on after that. But I I wouldn't ever bet against Elon Musk even though I mean even though there are crashes in the market and whatnot, you just have to you know I think you have to be more positive about like what he's doing for the for humanity, you know, like I mean >> he's think about everything he's accomplished and that's not a it's not a person I just want to bet against. Like I want I want him to be successful, you know? Um, I want these guys that are taking on these risks to be successful.

[00:20:04]And people might be like, well, that sounds very different than the Ben I know. But people are comparing it to like altcoins. Like, why why why would I go cheer on someone who's just printing their hundth altcoin and wants to like rug their followers? That's a different thing. They're not providing value to the world. They're not providing value to society, whereas people like Elon Musk are. So, you know, in the short term, it'll probably be a massive liquidity event. you'll see the price likely spike and then probably fall off for a few months and then maybe after that correction I would I would start to get interested. But I do I do think there are a lot of I mean I've talked to a lot of people that have had allocations in space SpaceX for a long time. I think a lot of them are are excited at the opportunity to to cash in.

[00:20:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. It's um yeah it's an exciting time isn't it? because like uh yeah, as you say um Elon Musk is is sort of I mean he's trying to make us a sort of what's the term he used like a multilanetary species isn't he? It's like and and I I guess you could look at the SpaceX IPO as potentially a big early step towards that. I mean, okay, um there's talk about there's talk about building a base on the moon and sending humans to Mars and that both of those still seem like they could be quite a long way away, but yeah, the fact that the first sort of company dedicated to operating in space is about to go public does does feel like a big moment. Um I I also want to I I think this is worth flagging up as well. This is something uh Nick was posting about um recently uh in the wake of the anthropic uh filing.

[00:21:44]And I think this is worth uh this is worth discussing as well because the rules have changed around this. Um and you know this means that these massive these monster companies having these ICOs um will be able to go into uh some of these uh some of these big index funds like the NASDAQ 100. they're going to get fasttracked into the index. Um, and as he says, all all three of them all three of them qualify. And of course, when you're part of an index fund like the NASDAQ 100 or the S&P 500 or whatever it is, then um the passive flows from that are are immense because you've got you've got pension funds, you've got all these other big passive investors that just buy the index. They buy it automatically. They don't wait for they don't try and buy the dip. they don't they just buy automatically all the time. So by ipoing now or you know in the near future I think this is an opportunity for companies like that to capture an enormous amount of value through these passive flows. So I guess anyone watching this uh certainly um you know uh anyone who has a stock portfolio um and is maybe thinking I might I might give these I might give these a wide birth and just sort of see what happens.

[00:23:00]It's like you might end up uh and owning them anyway. Uh you know, just if you uh if you have a pension or if you have a uh you know, if you're um if you have NASDAQ 100 or footsy foot S&P 500 in your portfolio, you could uh you could well be on your way to owning a bit of SpaceX, Open AI or Anthropic, whether you like it or not, which I think is worth bearing in mind.

[00:23:29]Yeah, let's see if uh well that'd be pretty good for those companies. I wonder how the valuations are actually going to going to actually go through. I don't know if you saw that like with uh Airbnb, not Airbnb, Uber and Microsoft, they had to cut everything off as far as their their AI for developers because they were spending too much.

[00:23:46]>> So the return on investment for what you get with AI sometimes isn't the greatest thing, but it's time goes on, it'll probably do just fantastic. That'll be the future.

[00:23:54]>> Yeah. Yeah. the future. The future is coming at us very quickly. Now, speaking of the future, I want to talk about another narrative that I personally find very interesting, but I'm not hugely invested in because uh I'm not quite sure of the best way to play it. So, I'm interested in in your guys take on this.

[00:24:12]Uh green energy um or the green economy.

[00:24:15]There was a really interesting report published at the beginning of this week saying that Britain's green economy is now worth something in the region of 105 billion pounds which is which is quite a lot and um the UK is trying to get towards net zero in terms of emissions and this is enormously controversial uh in back at home in the UK and elsewhere because uh a lot of people say well this is this is killing growth you know we're sacrificing um by not by cutting back on oil and gas we're sacrificing economic growth and etc etc. So this is a very fraugh topic but I'm interested in whether you guys have any particular thoughts on you know investing in green energy because it seems to be the future. It seems to be the direction of travel whether you like it or not. So are you are you know are you is it something you're interested in investing in? Are you looking at particular stocks or ETFs? Is it a trade you'd rather avoid or are you doing it kind of um the other way which is to actually get uh things like solar panels, heat pumps, etc. yourselves? Um Ben, can I start with you on this one?

[00:25:26]>> Yeah, I mean I have solar panels. Um but as far as other than that I mean I have a lot of investments in the uranium sector >> nuclear like the nuclear sector I think is going to grow a lot and some of the the main ETF for that is one called UR and it it's a it's a an ETF that just tracks a lot of that market. So if you don't want to go out and buy one of the individual companies and take on the idiosyncratic risk of that individual company, there is the ETF URA which does a pretty good job I think of kind of tracking the overall uranium market.

[00:26:05]There are some other smaller companies um that I've I've considered sort of maybe adding uh positions in. Uh, I like you have there's I'm trying to debate if I want to actually say them, but there there's a few different ones. You have like SMR.

[00:26:26]Um, SMR, by the way, stands for small modular reactors. Uh, you have a lot of different companies that are are trying to do some stuff in the nuclear industry. And I I would say I have a pretty big investment in in that. Um, again, my background is nuclear engineering, so I might be a little biased, but I also I also think our energy demands are only going to grow, and I think nuclear is going to be one of the ways that we can try and meet those energy demands.

[00:26:55]>> Yeah. And of course, Ben, I mean, I guess if you weren't so busy uh with your with your channel and arguing with people on Twitter, you'd probably be building your own SMR in your in your backyard.

[00:27:07]I mean, yeah, but I mean, a lot of I actually worked on a lot of that stuff in grad school. You had to like design so, you know, like design kind of things like that for various projects and and whatnot. And actually, my dissertation was not on SMRs, but I think two other people in my group, their entire dissertation was on like designing SMRs, like small mod reactors, and I mean doing everything behind them other than actually making it, but computationally speaking, of course. Um, >> yeah, >> you know, designing designing everything. Uh, and and I I mean, so I learned a lot about them, but it wasn't it wasn't my main focus. But yeah, I mean, it's it's hard not to be bullish on and also too, if you think about it, that industry, if it can grow, I think it would really help humanity, you know, if we can because arguably the socy needs are met. It's when the energy needs are not met when things start to go south. And so, yeah, I mean, I I want to bet on on that future of >> Yeah., >> you know, growing our capabilities and and increasing our our infrastructure around around that.

[00:28:22]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. We the the more the more power the better. Um Rob, what about you? Are you are you invested at all? Is do you have solar panels? How are you playing this one?

[00:28:34]>> Yeah. Well, in Puerto Rico, you got to have solar panels or a backup generator because the infrastructure is awful. So, we have them. And I got to tell you, it's like a hit or miss with solar panels. Some do, some months just great, other months not so great. And it just depends on, of course, obviously when the sun is out or not or raining like crazy. But just two things. One of those things was um you know, if we really would have leaned in nuclear power, how much better the world would have been at this point. I mean, look at Germany.

[00:29:01]They had they were having a good gang busters time in the 80s and I think in the 90s and then they sort of just dismantle it. Now everybody has to go into and this is why we're having wars over in Iran because of for freedom.

[00:29:16]It's for oil. Let's be honest. So it's just a big oil conglomerate and that's what's happening. But as far as like uh investments into the the energy sector there was just real quick you throw up the the screen we can get in the Q&A.

[00:29:31]This is when I take a look at this.

[00:29:32]There's a guy and this guy's been pretty popular lately. Leopold Lashen Brener.

[00:29:36]He was a former open AAI employee. This was one of his or his his thesis which is picks and shovels and energy for AI.

[00:29:43]Not so much like the AI of like we just talked about, but like the things like Bloom Energy, Cororeweave, Lumen Holdings, and there's another one uh core scientific.

[00:29:54]And later on he talked about how he's pretty bullish on Bitcoin mining operations. And I was like why why is that? And it's because these Bitcoin miners are pivoting to AI storage and then also for the energy consumption and for data centers. If you take a look at core scientific, you know, Bitcoin mining operation as well in one day, not too great. But if you do, let's say five days, one month, 33%, 6 months, 64% and over one year, you're up 124%. Compare that to the gains of just say Bitcoin.

[00:30:27]That's a big thing. How about iron? The same thing. 5 days, 2%, 1 month, 32%, 6 months, 40%, and 1 year 594%.

[00:30:38]Again, it's a Bitcoin operation, but now they're pivoting to AI and doing both.

[00:30:42]Riot, which isn't their first pivot.

[00:30:44]They've been around since 2003. They were another thing for diagnostic machinery. So, again, not so great. 5 days, one month, 6 months, not too bad.

[00:30:54]181%.

[00:30:56]And so, like these types of things when I look at them, I'm like, well, maybe I just combine both of them. I don't want to invest in the things that I don't know about. So, maybe I would just do that and then kind of have a double whammy. So, that would bring us all back to crypto as I see people in the comment section go, "Why the hell are we talking about green energy? Let's talk about digital assets." Here you go. There's a nice way to loop it back.

[00:31:16]>> Rob, that was absolutely seamless. That was that was real pro stuff there.

[00:31:21]Beautifully done. Um, the best the best crypto companies are the ones that that pivoted away from crypto. [laughter] >> That's the play. That's the play in crypto at the moment. pivot away to something else, preferably AI. Um, yes.

[00:31:38]Well, uh, yeah, the reason we're the reason we're talking about, you know, some of these other topics is kind of, well, if you want a reason, take a look at the crypto charts at the moment. Um, we could get Ben to throw up the social risk uh, charts as well, but I think we'll know. I think we know what they uh what they look like. You know, um, they're in the [laughter] [gasps] >> it's tough in crypto at the moment. So, we need to talk about some of the other exciting opportunities that are happening everywhere because as you have said in the past, Ben, there's always a bull market happening somewhere, >> right? And in crypto and in crypto, there's only dozens of us left at this point.

[00:32:14]>> That's the truth.

[00:32:15]>> Exactly. Exactly. Um, okay. So, uh, well, that is, uh, that is a little over half an hour, so I'm going to let you guys go. Um, but Jents, great to see you. Thanks for joining. And um we will I guess be back again next week. Uh >> Ben Ros. So we will be on Ben's channel next week.

[00:32:39]>> You're muted.

[00:32:40]>> Yeah. Sorry. I was just I was just telling you guys my my top 10 low cap altcoin gems. But that sounds good to me.

[00:32:47]>> Oh, that's the next one. Next video.

[00:32:52]We'll have to um uh we'll have to play it back and and and just lipre uh what you were saying there. Um but uh yeah, well, we'll leave you with this uh comment from my uh colleague Lewis. Um so that's something you can go and research on your on your own time. But folks, uh thank you all for watching. Uh thank you for joining and we will see you again soon. Bye-bye.