Archaeological investigations on Oak Island involve careful soil analysis, artifact dating, and historical research to uncover the island's complex history, revealing that artifacts span multiple time periods from the 1600s to the 1700s, indicating multi-occupational use of the lots rather than a single treasure-hiding scenario.
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Good evening everyone. everyone and welcome to the Freeman Files here on the JFree 906 podcast channel. Oh, Seth Bridges, I tell you what, we are so excited tonight because we have Fiona Steel. Yes, >> Shard.
Shard.
Yes, we do. All right. I'm so excited.
I've been thinking about this show for such a long time. Fiona, thank you so much. You're still muted. Uh, thank you so much for joining us on the show tonight. I really appreciate it. I know that you said uh a while when we had you on during one of the review shows I kind of getting your feet wet with us and all of that. I know you promised to come back and I thought I hope she really means it because I really wanted to come back. So, thank you.
>> I'm thrilled to be back here. This is great. I get to get to chat with everybody finally.
>> Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, we're uh we're really excited. Thank you folks for joining us here tonight. We appreciate it very much. And as I always say, if you don't mind, uh, if you haven't done so already, please consider subscribing to the channel and click on that notification bell so you know that we have new content coming out, uh, you kind of get a little notification from YouTube. And if you like the content of what we do for you here tonight, uh, and our special guest, Fiona Steel, give us a thumbs up on that. It really helps out all the with all the YouTube algorithms and all that. Oh, I saw I saw uh, the Fiona Steel fan club here a few minutes.
Oh, there it is.
Yes. Yes, indeed. Oh my gosh. Had to put the uh Oak Island shirt. I didn't put it away uh because, you know, the the season premiere here just a few weeks ago. Uh I'm sorry, the season finale just a few weeks ago. And uh I I didn't put it away because I know we're going to have some more shows like this throughout the summer months. And so I'm really happy about that. And thank you, Seth, for joining tonight. Appreciate it.
>> Oh, I couldn't miss it. I'm in the Fiona fan club as well.
>> Yeah, >> having you on was was definitely one of the highlights of the season for sure.
It was so fun. And uh like someone in the chat I saw they said I think they said they respect and trust you and it's such a I agree. You know >> that means a lot. Thank you.
>> Yeah, absolutely. You know, and that's something too, Fiona, that we uh I've said it before, uh jumping right on top of what uh um Seth just said there, that you know, the integrity of the entire team of people there. Um you know, Rick on down, especially Rick and Marty on down. Um we just feel the integrity of all of you and that team is so high. Um that, you know, when we get people questioning, you know, oh well, they're just faking it. they're just dropping coins around to find or whatever it may be. It's like no. Uh-uh. Absolutely not.
Uh I've met these many of these folks in person and no, they would not do that.
And so uh thank you for bringing that up, Seth, because that's a valid point.
>> Yeah, it is. It's it's a challenge that we have. We we we always worry that people perceive that we're doing this just for a show and no, we're in fact when I was hired, I had no idea to even be on the show. I really just wanted to dig. I knew there was a show, but I just wanted to to be a part of it all and and to be able to work with Lear and and then all of a sudden day one there was a camera put in front of me and it was like what? So, no, I don't we don't do it for the show. We we do it for for the history and and we really it's just been exciting and when you talk about the team, it is a really good team.
Everybody goes to their own strengths and I think that's what brings us all together as a as a cohesive unit.
>> Yeah, absolutely. And I think the the addition of true archaeology on the show with you guys, you and Leard and the team, I think that is fantastic. And that's something that just simply had to happen. Um because you know, and you you you said it a moment ago, the history of it.
>> And there's so many of us out there, and I I may have mentioned this when you were on with us before, but that the thing of it is is there's those different camps of people involved in in this. And there's those that just want treasure, treasure, treasure, treasure.
like Marty, when can we pick up that B8 boulder?
>> Can't we just pick it up and start digging with the excavator? No, no, no, no. But um there's those that want just treasure and some that don't want the treasure. They want the history. And me, I want both. I mean, I do want them to find some treasure or evidence that there was treasure, but it's the history that I'm really excited about. Even though I hated it in school, I love it now.
>> Yeah. Oh, no. I I think bit by bit we're changing little parts of Nova Scotian history or adding to it. That's probably a better way to put it.
>> Yeah. Getting getting to as a history lover getting to see the web of history and all the connections that Oak Island is connected to and all the offshoots, you know, and the things I've learned from uh different types of plants and fibers and and different time periods, you know, the you know, it was so much fun. I would have never thought that it it spanned so many different generations and different parts of the world and and it's so fun and really >> it uh it's been so great this community that Jeff's created as well because it's I know people that live in that area and I get to interact with Tom who's like you know I see him proud and you know of like his home to learn all these cool things. He's like I didn't learn get to learn this in school. So, it's really fun. Uh, you you you absolutely are changing not only Scotian history, but North American history. And >> and I don't think it's like a big thing to say like you really are. It might seem like you're not, but you truly are.
And you're you're a big part of it.
>> And and it's what I find really fascinating is that we also were able to not just piece the archaeology together with the history, but we also have an archives. like I don't know if many people know we have the nonprofit on the side and and I actually run the archives. I'm the archival curator. So we get the privilege of going through lots of really old documents and and a lot of it has to do with the money pit of course and the searchers but uh so there's two sides to that. one, I'm I'm learning more and more about about the searchers and the people involved and what happened on the money pit side, and that's not my area of expertise normally, but I'm becoming a lot more wellversed in it because of the archives and reading these wonderful old documents, but then we also have the historical research on the side. And when you put that together with the archaeology and we start looking at the artifacts we're finding and piecing it together with the history that we're researching it, it it just brings it alive.
>> It does. Mhm.
>> I mean that we talked about a presentation that I had done um a while back and and a lot of that was is is just really opened my eyes to how integrated everything is and the people involved um with the search particularly um and and going back to some really good history from the 1600s and it's it's tying it all in um emphatically.
Yeah, we're going to talk about that too a little bit. And that was uh yeah, when you did that presentation for us uh at the Oak Island conference last September and you went through that, I do want to touch on it. I know.
>> Sure.
>> You were you were hurrying so much because I know you were trying to leave Lar, but he was enjoying himself just sitting there listening. Was funny to to watch him just sit there and listen to you. But but it there's it's so involved and I I I know we would be here for a couple of hours if we uh or two three hours if we went through it all. But maybe we can touch on some highlights of it in a little bit here.
>> Um that but that's amazing story. Now you talked about the lab and some of the nonprofit um is that the uh and I'm going to blow these letters the Os there's two acronyms really. is the Oak Island Archives and Research Organization. So that that's that's our nonprofit and under the umbrella of the research organization, we have our lab and that's the Oak Island, it's OM is Oak Island Materials and Archaeological Services. So Emma, of course, is and and Jill are very instrumental in in running the lab. Um, and they're they're a part of the same building that that I work in that we all work together.
It was really the four of us and and we have another lady Karen who you don't see on camera ever and she works there as well. She she's my assistant and and she does a great job in going through the documents and things. So yeah, another team another team that you just don't don't see behind. Yeah. But see, that's the beauty of what's happening here. And look how it's evolved from from a couple of guys, couple of brothers showing up, you know, after, you know, Dan Blankenship and working with him and starting to, you know, you look go back and look at season 1, episode 2, 1, two, three, four. Here they are out there with some shovels and a backhoe and they're, you know, messing around in the weeds trying to find a where to put a bore hole down. I mean it was in and it's it's evolved from that to becoming quite an important u hub of activity for Nova Scotia and Canada alto together. I mean you have so much happening there um that is historical for the area as well as Canada in general and for North America for that matter. I mean it's evolved into this huge thing now and that's just it's wonderful. I think it's absolutely wonderful what you guys are doing there.
Um, let's step back just for a minute.
You mentioned, you know, when you first got there, um, I did want to touch on that a little bit. How did that all come about? How did you get to be part of this wonderful thing you're doing on >> That's a great question. Um, well, here's something weird about that. When I grew up as a little kid, I knew when I was in grade six that I wanted to be an archaeologist. It was it was a thing. My dad and I joked about it all my years. I I went to a private school had had really strange courses. So I I I took Latin from grade seven to 13 and you know universities it was all strange stuff. So I I was always immersed in that world. And in my kitchen growing up there was always this poster of Oak Island, one of those old purple ones from probably the 1960s. And it hung in our kitchen forever.
>> That's funny.
>> I don't know why and still to this day don't know why my parents ever had it because I don't think they were ever on Oak Island. They lived in Ontario at the time. Um, now fast forward, I um being in in Nova Scotia, there's not a lot of opportunities uh for for archaeology in general, unless you're doing cultural resource management and things like that, government work. Um, so living so close to it, I I thought this is crazy.
Why am I not applying to to go to work there? So, it was during COVID, actually, it was and they had just shut down everything. And I I' met a I knew somebody that worked on the island. It was just a friend of mine, but I didn't know he actually worked there. We met in the grocery store one day, had this this ridiculous chat of catching up about what we were doing, and he he told me he was working on Oak Island. I loved him, went, "What do you mean you're working on Oak Island? I should be working on Oak Island." And we joked about it in in the grocery store and he said, "Well, why why would you not apply?" And I went, "You're right." So, I I sent a letter um to to Blair with my resume, but that's when it was co and uh and he said, "I'd love to work with you." and and but it took two years. I finally got an email back two years later going, "Sorry it took me so long to get back to you." And I was just howling going, "Yeah, okay, Larry. No, no problem."
Anyway, he said, "I have a position.
Come on and join us." So that that's literally how I joined it. But I really thought I was just going to be working with him in the the background and doing archaeology. I really didn't think I was part of the show. It just didn't occur to me.
>> It was a little >> Yeah. Yeah. you know, but but it's great because um as I said, we get to bring bring history to the world and I'm I'm really proud that we get to do that.
It's it's I consider it an honor and a privilege.
>> Yeah.
>> I I you know what and I'm and I'm so glad that you are too because it it like I mentioned about the history part of it, how important it is to and you when I was talking about that, you look at the chat there and there's a lot of people uh longest job interview ever.
Yeah. a lot of people jumping in and agreeing that that's what really keeps them going about this entire EV, you know, yes, we want to see them find some treasure, but man, it's this uh it's the rewriting of history books here that really gets to me. Or no, I I guess filling in the blanks, filling in many, many blanks in the history books that >> really gets me excited about this. Um uh I wanted to ask about your you know, when you first came to the and I, you know, I went over this with Lear. I've gone through it with several people actually uh when they come on for the first time from Oak Island, but I asked Leard about it. Larard said, "Yeah, he showed up in the island in shorts and tennis shoes, ended up having to borrow a pair of boots and jumping in a hole, figure out what this hole was all about." And it was a funny story. What was it like for you when you first got there? I mean, you said you didn't think you were going to be on camera. So, what was it like your first couple of days there?
>> Um, it was actually great. The first couple of days were brutal because we had to clear out lot five. It it was it was a forest literally with branches that would poke you in the eye as you walked by. Um so I TV wasn't really discussed or the show pardon me wasn't really discussed as much although I knew it was. So I was just doing um brunt work clearing brush because we we all we do everything that needs to be done. You know it's not it's not a a very pretty job. Sometimes we're dirty.
>> I have a whole crew that comes in and does all that work?
>> No, you would think that. No, it was us.
No, we we did it. The whole archaeology team there was we had a bigger team that that that first year. Um and uh and so I was dirty and mucky and wet. And then it was the very next day we went down to lot five and we were looking at the big feature. We call it the big feature. Um um the one that's now, you know, fully exposed, right?
>> And but at that time it was it was a hole in the ground. There was nothing to see. You had no idea what it possibly could have been. There was a few circles. Um, Robert Young had lined it with in an artistic way with with some rocks around the outside and and all of a sudden we were looking at this feature and Rick and Marty were there and and Lar and myself and some other team members and they were we had us all lined up looking at the hole to as looking at what we were about to attack and and and Rick just looked at me on and that's when the cameras all came out and Rick looked at me goes, "What do you think this is?" And I I was flabbergasted going, "What are you asking me for? I just got here." You know, you know, what do you say to that?
It's You have hopes as to what you think you're gonna find, but at that point, we were really just trying to figure out what we were looking at before we got into it.
>> Yeah, that's amazing.
>> So, yeah, I know. Yeah, it was. And you look at those circles, we used to call it the circle feature >> uh on lot five. Now, it's become the foundation feature on lot five. Um, but yeah, you know, and they were, you know, it was funny because we were watching them measure it and it was 13 feet.
>> Oh my gosh. Same measurements as the original money.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's Robert Young playing tricks on us.
>> Yeah.
>> And he continues to this day. Yes.
>> Yeah. He was really proud of that lot.
>> Danny Hener talking with Danny Hener and saying no, no, he had pictures of of uh Robert Young actually setting that up.
uh with the you know the putting the you know pictures of him putting the stones around you know in that circle.
>> Yes.
>> Um so you know knew right away that that's not what uh how it was. But then it starts to get uncovered slowly but surely the stones start to peel away and we start seeing this foundation feature come out. And you guys were finding artifacts that were kind of, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they spread out over a long time period? These uh art, you know, even up to the most recent ones you found kind of a long a broad er uh uh era, aren't they?
>> Yes, very much so. In fact, it it really confused us because many of the artifacts go back prior to when anybody ever owned any of the lots on Oak Island, and realistically, it shouldn't be that way. um unless somebody else was there before. We also had the issue that many of the artifacts were very jumbled up within the the very um first part of the feature that we were starting to uncover, which was literally in the center of of the the structure. Um it was we were getting confused. It didn't have proper strategraphy because a lot of the soil had just been backfilled from the surrounding environment, but we didn't know that up front. So you're seeing things that that might have been from, you know, 1740, then you've got something else that might be the 1780 kind of range. And it's like, h how how can this be what normally you would think the law of superposition you you should have the older artifacts down below, but that wasn't necessarily the case. So it took us a while to a few years to really properly start figuring out what we were actually seeing on that lot. And every year when we get more and more information, it just the picture just keeps building and building. And now here we are today and we've got a a much better sense of what we think went on there.
>> So it's >> Are you allowed to talk about that at all? This much better sense. I mean I it looks like a a foundation of a building or and I think it was referred to as being added on to or repaired at some point along the way. What what can you share about I don't want to and I and I apologize folks when you're listening out there. We have to be very very careful what we talk about here because obviously Fiona can only talk about what has been aired. We're not going to ask her about what she's doing right now or if there isn't even even is if there's going to even be a season 14. We don't even know yet. But what can you share with us about this feature? I mean, you know what you know about it now?
>> Um yeah, let's talk about some of the basics of it then. The the feature itself now it took us a few years to fully uncover it. I mean, we had most of it uncovered the first year, but we were still finding little bits of extra pieces as we went on into into the the next year. Um, you can really see that how crudely built it was. And that was that's a little strange. You would think anybody trying to build a structure, you would you would do it properly and, you know, build it so that it was very tight. And that was one of the first observations that we had was that this structure looks really old and and we were not sure that the artifacts themselves were matching the age of the actual structure. That's um that's a big eye opener. You know, you would you would think that it they should match.
Um we also found out that as we were as it was getting larger and larger as we were uncovering it there is another section kind of to to the west side um where where you see the semi we call it the semic-ircular portion of it little feature that whole area does look like an addition it it's it's structurally a little bit tighter. You can see the rocks are a little bit smaller. They're they're they're put together a little tighter. So um it looks like there yes there was an addition which which can happen of course with buildings we all need extra space for whatever reason. Um so looking at the architecture itself it it we're I I have to be careful with some of this because I don't want to say that it's one thing over another but you can certainly see hints of um almost hints of a Acadian like architecture.
I'm not saying it is Aadian. That's not what I'm saying at all. It's just got it's got hints of the way that it was built. you know, you where where you would have a whole pile of boulders put on each other like maybe maybe three stacked three or four high rocks and then you would that type of foundation you would either have a post and lentil.
So you'd have a a big piece of wood coming across and you would have post coming up from there. Sorry I talk with my hands a lot. The post would come up and you would fill in between the post to to you know with moss or or seaggrass, anything that you had at hand to kind of pack it in. and it looks like it was built possibly in that kind of of style. So, which is an older type of style. However, as I say, when you look at them the the mean dating of the artifacts in general, that's not fully supporting what we think we're seeing in the the structure, the architectural structure ourselves.
>> Yeah. So, that that was, you know, the first eye opener that we saw. And the second thing when you look at the artifacts as I said um that the Oak Island really wasn't settled properly until say 1765 era. It some of the lots were granted out before then for some fishing rights but you know Gford and Smith but realistically the the earliest lot owners should be from 1765 onwards.
But we're getting artifacts that are that are earlier than that >> and each year we're getting some that are >> earlier and earlier in little bits. We call them outliers or in a sense because that doesn't really fully represent what you're seeing. If you look at the mean range, date range of the artifacts themselves, they do kind of fit in with the occupation. They they really are mid700s to the to the late 1700s. That's the majority of the artifacts that we get, which which would make sense, >> right?
>> But it also shows us, you know, then then you can kind of relate that back to the people that, you know, were the lot owners at the time. Um and and on that note, some some of that history of the lots themselves was lost. The the all of the deeds aren't available. Sometimes people didn't record their deeds. There was a fire at one point in the Chester um land registry. So some of the documents have been lost as well. So we had to piece a lot of that history back by by various other ways. looking at people's death certificates, birth certificates, looking at their deeds, going through literally line by line of deeds trying to figure out was there a structure on on the lots or um was it willed to somebody, you know, and that's how we started kind of piecing together the actual history and and lot ownership which wasn't allowed us to then paint a better picture of what may have happened there. But it's these outlier artifacts that have been really fascinating and and starting to give us a bit bit of a picture that we now really think that it was it was multioccupational. It wasn't just built for one family or one a group of people that that were there. Um it it has a bigger history than that and and that was really confusing for the first few years because we couldn't make sense of it. But now it's starting to to make a bit more sense.
>> Wow. Yeah. So, and I have a question here uh that Linda had put up. I just popped it back up for you, Linda. Uh does the volume of rocks similar size and density saying say anything about the structure itself? Like I and I'm assuming that uh she's talking about like the type of structure it is like a bunk house or a a kitchen or uh I mean does that play in there?
>> Um I I think you got to look at the artifacts more so as as to to the function what was going on there. But yeah, you do have to look at at the way that it's designed as well. And and certainly we can see that there was a basement or seller like area. Um and and you can tell that there the there was larger rocks within the the very main portion of the of the structure itself.
And then that that addition that I referred to was was smaller, tighter rocks. So that's that's a a a bit of a hint and key into how it was it was um designed or or built. However, yes, we can we can tell that we know that there's a set of stairs that goes down into a cellar. We had a hard time trying to find where the front door might have been. I think last year I think we've we're starting to to get a better idea of where we think that might have been now and piecing that together. Um I like to do artwork. So I' I've kind of been drawing playing around with some drawings and re renditions of what I think the structure might have looked like.
>> Oh wow.
>> Yeah. I mean, we don't show people that and it's not something that that um that I've brought forward other than Lar and I play around with things and and we we look at what where you know where where do you think windows may have been, doorways, you look at where the majority of the nails and the glass may have been found. Those are indicators. Um or they should normally be indicators, but keep in mind we still have that problem of a lot of the artifacts being jumbled together when when the feature was filled in at a later date. So, it's it's it's not it's not so black and white.
And I think that that's the one frustrating thing. On a normal regular archaeological site, you should be able to tell exactly where the windows were.
Um or look at the the number of nails, the types of nails that you're finding to were they were they architectural nails or or are we looking at shipped nails, you know, nails for different purposes, that type of thing. And that's a bit of a challenge for us because a lot of it has been um jumbled up. But that's one of the main reasons that we're now working outside of the feature and we've been, you know, looking in what we call the yard area because the artifacts that you find in the yard are going to be in proper strategraphy. They should be what we say in situ means they should be where they were dropped and and and then the soil would build on top of that. So we get a bit of a better picture when we look at the artifacts outside of the feature rather than the ones that were found inside of the feature.
>> Yeah. a cat's ask in there. Do you think Robert Young jumbled in any of it before he circled it? You know, kind of.
>> No, you know, I think we were we lucked out that Robert Young didn't fully find that feature. I think he knew something was there. He was an incredible notetaker. He was um very meticulous in in his finds. He's got a a website that um you can see if you look up Robert Young and and you see the artifacts. He would actually have these little tent pegs that had numbers on them and wherever he found certain artifacts, he would pound these tent pegs into the ground and you can see the number that we that corresponds with the artifacts that he has listed on his website. So he he was very very detailed and he took a lot of time but um unfortunately he when he died he hadn't fully done his work.
it was to our benefit in some ways because um I think I think part of he he was a very artistic man and when he lined that feature with rocks I quite frankly think that he was he was kind of trying to deter people from thinking it was something else so by designing it as an art form instead people looked at it as an art form not as a as an actual archaeological feature that might be below it and I don't think he fully found I think if he had thought that there was a feature there he would have done a lot more digging >> probably. So, yeah.
>> Yeah. I think he just missed missed it.
Like when there's one area we we questioned whether he had taken a little bit of an excavator to just one bucket scoop out. There's just one one portion of the feature that you can tell has been kind of removed.
>> And and I think he just missed it by like like maybe a foot. That's it. If we had gone that foot over, we may, you know, we may not have found what we found or it may have been um it may have been destroyed a little bit.
>> Oh, wow.
>> Kind of did us a favor by not digging fully in.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was a blessing for the archaeological uh investigation today cuz like you said if >> uh and it's so fascinating listening to you talk about you know as you're getting to know you know going and picture I'm picturing you know the archaeologist it it doesn't always make for great television. I mean, I know everybody here would would watch a live stream of you guys, but it really is it's so much better to know the story than to just dig in with a big, you know, to do it really fast and in one big dig with a big giant scoop. You're not going to get to know the story of it like you guys got to know. You know, not only did you, hey, you know, what's up with these dates and then you find out, oh, this was all backfilled and then you, you know, the that difference between builds and time periods and and where's the door? we're not going to know those things. So, it really is to the island's advantage and and the viewer as well.
Like you guys have added so much to the story. Honestly, the archaeologists have saved this TV show the last two seasons in my opinion.
>> Um, so yeah, it's so it's so fun to hear you talk about it because I you know, you really are it's almost like you're I don't know. Do do you have those moments? You probably do, but like do you like when you are you like I'm the first person touching this since the person who dropped it?
>> Oh yes, we get so excited about stuff and like we have to tone it down a little bit. If you could actually film my normal reactions when I find something cameras are on us a lot, but they're not there 100% of the time. And and I mean we joked how I say shark when I find things. Well, yeah, that happens.
You imagine other things that we find and we high five each other. are so excited and and we literally think that like who was the last person to touch this? What were they doing?
>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. In their shoes as as to >> Yeah. Were they having a bad day because they're like I dropped it, you know?
>> Yeah. I can't find it. They're so special to me.
>> Yeah. A coin. You think back then when you lost coins, they they probably missed those. You know, >> that was huge.
>> Yeah. It was a big deal. So, every little find is is important. And when you talk about um the excavators and things like that, Yeah. We we're we're I'm personally not a big excavator fan because we're soil readers and and if you if you scoop something out we are you're because you're looking at the texture, the consistency, the colors of the soil because when you get to different layers like we we do soil profiles in our walls. You you that's not something that would ever be shown.
But we we have to keep really accurate records of where things were found and what layer in the soil they were found because that's going to paint another picture. And again, the strategraphy within the feature itself was almost non-existent in parts, which is why it was all jumbled up. But now that we're in the yard area or we, you know, all the other areas surrounding it, you can see the the colors in the soil. In fact, the stairs that I found in the cellar, the >> it was uh the soil color was the same.
It was the texture and consistency. And as I was traveling, there were softer areas and then there was more firm areas. And as I was going down, it literally selfcarved itself.
And and I and I kept thinking, this is there's like a ledge here. Well, here's another ledge here. And then you look at the artifacts were were not on the stairs. They were on the sides of the stairs with the rocks. So you could tell that this was a a entrance to a cellar.
You could see clearly see the rocks where they were starting to to patent on the left. and and if if we hadn't have of have of have of been able to travel slowly through that area, I would never have found the stairs.
>> Um so yeah, so when you if you were to take an excavator just because the soil looks the same, you would have lost that information. We would never have known that there was a set of stairs going to the seller, >> you know. So so it's it's really important to take our time and do things because um too much information can be missed. So yeah, we we probably frustrate people to all ends because we do >> yeah, he's wonderful and he's really good with an excavator, but it's it's uh we got to put the brakes on sometimes and and uh or or just, you know, educate. We have to educate people as to why we're doing things a certain way even when they don't want it to be done a certain way. Tom and Seth and I have gotten very good at watching uh you know you know when the when the show is on and there you guys are talking about something you found or whatever uh or or just you know talking about the feature itself uh I look at the other faces I'm looking in the background I'm looking at Gary's flags I'm looking at you know what might be in the background and I'm also looking at faces and it's funny because when when you see Marty starting to talk about you know well how long is can we up or whatever. And then I look at your face and you're kind of like, uh, yeah, we gotta we got to go slow, Marty, you know.
>> Oh, that's >> remember they weren't they weren't used to archaeology for a long time. They were used to using excavators and and and just finding things certain ways.
Um, and they're great with the excavators, don't get me wrong. And sometimes there is a place to use it.
You'll see sometimes we do bring them on site um because we might want to peel back a top layer because we need to get to um the the right the area that's going to be rich with artifacts.
>> Keep in mind Nova Scotian soils and especially on an island our deposits are not that that thick like we may only have this much space if you can see that that could be our archaeological layer.
So if you take an excavator buck and take that off and you go down below you you've missed all that information.
>> Yeah. So they they it probably has taken them a while to kind of um come to terms with that. Um >> it was a couple seasons back when they were uncovering the the road in the swamp and they got to the stone platform I think is when Rick started helping.
Was that with Aaron Taylor? Uh Jeff was that during his >> I'm sorry I was writing a note down.
>> Is Aaron Taylor the name of the archaeologist?
>> Yeah Dr. Taylor, I remember Rick got in the mud in the swamp and he was using a tri and at first I think he was saying you know it's a little frustrating at first but I've really come to enjoy this little tin he said it's like a tiny I forget his words it's like a tiny investigation or but the way he worded it was really like uh he was delighted you know he was finding all these little things and he came to he seemed to come to appreciate that that approach uh I remember >> yeah you know it's kind of funny too because people are like you know uh when whenever the cameras go away, we don't know when that's going to be, but when the cameras go away, if you guys are still there working, the archaeologists are still there working uh on the island and still bringing up artifacts and finding new features and stuff, we do want that webcam, 247 webcam, so we can watch what you guys are doing and see you get all excited about something you did. We may not be able to see the thing you found cuz it's in your palm of your hand so far away, but you know, there's a lot of us that would like to tune in and watch once in a while and see what's going on with that kind of thing. So, keep that in mind.
You know, someday in the future when the cameras go away. Uh, go ahead. Sorry.
>> I think it'd be fun to have a GoPro on a tree just just sitting there, you know, and you could you could fast forward it and you see all sorts of strange things, but >> Oh, man. It would be awesome. Yeah. I feel like this has uh opened up a a lifelong fascination with Nova Scotian history that I'll never let go of. And as someone from San Antonio, Texas, if not Broke Island, I don't know if I could have ever said that.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I would I don't know. There's so much history, you know, there's it's like TV. People are like, "What are you watching?" I'm like, "I don't know.
There's so many." It's like with history, you know, what part do you want to zoom in on because the stories are endless. And uh >> it's so funny. I know that the people of Nova Scotia, I have to say, are some of the nicest people I've ever met. I I know Christine and I, we're going to be making our fourth trip up there this year, next month, June, for >> the uh the Oak Island Conference that's coming up here next month. But uh but I love coming back. I just do. The place is beautiful. The people are great. Uh and I think this is this is going to be a good time. Now, I want to because there's there's I have a couple more questions about lot five. Uh, and then we'll talk a little bit about lot eight and then hopefully we'll have enough time to to discuss some of the, uh, uh, some of the other stuff, you know, the the the searchers, the information.
>> Um, but I did want to mention too, uh, you mentioned artwork a little while ago and I and you said talking about making a picture of the lot five structure. Um, we do have and I do have some of your work that you have your painting uh pictures of your paintings and I know that you're doing this for a very special uh foundation and I'd like to talk about that just for a minute here.
Uh, it's the Makea-Wish Foundation. Is that correct?
>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. That's uh it's our charity of choice on the island. It's something that's been very dear to me.
Um I was instrumental in bringing it back as our charity of choice. Um yeah, the Makea-Wish Foundation is is an organization that grants wishes to children living with critical illnesses.
Uh it's in fact my son was a recipient of a wish um many years ago. Um many people probably don't know this, but my my son passed away from cancer at the age of 16. He was 15 when he got sick.
So previous to to me working with this organization, I did a lot of work with with kids cancer research. Um, in fact, I I biked across Canada because I didn't think people would take me seriously in trying to raise money unless I did something crazy like that. So, that's where it's it all started. It was the year after my son passed away. I just felt that there was too much of a need to do to do something to to raise more money. So, I started with that, but now I'm I I can't do the same kind of cycling and and that I that I used to do. So, my my charity of choice has now changed to the Makea-Wish Foundation.
So, I decided what a better way to to contribute to it is it's I love to paint. It's just a it's something that I do on the side. So, I' I've recently just launched a website. Um it's it's rock art dot rock artcards.com.
I like to paint rocks. I have a thing about rocks. And so, yeah. So, so some of the paintings or the images that you that you would have seen probably are the are the images that from the greeting cards that I'm making now. and and a portion of the sale of every card is going to the Makea-Wish Foundation.
So, I'm hoping that more and more as time goes on, I have a lot of overhead costs right now that are that are a part of it. So, as those those overhead costs go down, I can contribute more to the charity. But, yeah, that's what Oh, yeah. There's there's one of my paintings that's um that's a local they're all local pictures or paintings of of local areas in Nova Scotia, the surrounding areas. Like, I'm looking at these now. Yeah, that's just in First South. Um, so yeah, that's I'm that's what I'm doing now on the side. So I I paint things, make them into greeting cards, and my hope is that that people will support us in supporting a good charity. So it's uh it's just a passion of mine that I' I've had for probably 10 years now on the side in my fundraising.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I know that uh and I saw these I saw these uh pictures here of the uh the beach rocks. Uh, and I I mentioned this to you in the pre-show a little bit, but uh, Christine and I were just up uh, walking the Lake Superior shoreline and we were picking up rocks and stuff like that and looking for uper lights. Uh, and did find some, by the way, we did find a few. Uh, but when I saw this picture, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, it looks just like the rocks on the Lake Superior shoreline up in the UP." And, uh, Craig, I saw him uh, donate. Thank you, Craig, by the way, for donating to the show.
Appreciate that. I just saw that somebody else did too. Mark, thank you Mark. Appreciate it. Um, but you know, and and Mark is up or uh I'm sorry, Craig is up in the UP right now and I don't know if he's ever looked for uper stones or uper lights, but anyway, these are fantastic. They're beautiful. They are >> pictures. You do a fantastic work here.
Um, and this is so nice and the charity I know is near and dear to not only you, but also I think it's to Rick as well, right? I mean, he's done some stuff with this last year. I think I remember seeing some pictures.
>> Yeah. No, he he's he's been really really supportive of that. In fact, he he does some picture frames. He makes things for our gift shop. Um and and a portion of those proceeds have been going to Make a Wish as well. Lar does the same thing. It's the three of us really really try to do what we can in in promoting the charity. Um it's it's just so important. Kids often, you know, can you imagine a kid living with a life critical illness, they they don't have a lot to for for excuse me, they don't have a lot to look forward to sometimes when they're middle of dealing with it.
So, if you can give them just a little bit of hope, it goes a long way to to somebody who's really dealing with with something, the whole family can benefit from it.
>> So, yeah, it's just something on the side that I just really believe in.
>> And I when you look at these rocks, to me, every rock has a character.
>> Oh, absolutely. Like it's it's a life.
Every rock has its own life and and I don't know that's that's why >> I know I I we literally have sitting right over here next to me is a fivegallon bucket uh that's pretty much full of uh stones that we picked up up in Michigan. Uh we did find some uber lights too. As a matter of fact, I think I have a I have a quick little picture of those as well. This isn't about my stuff. This is about Fiona's stuff. But anyway, I did Yeah, there's one there >> with some uper lights that we found.
That's only about half of what we found.
And that big one's about the size of a grapefruit. Uh and it wasn't covered as you see, but the smaller ones were were really cool and some blue ones too in there. But anyway, um so you know, it's funny because we do we do collect a lot of rocks. So that those pictures uh paintings were really special to me. But I also know that during our Oak Island uh conference that we have coming up next month, we are also uh NOTA uh metal detectors has given us a um I don't have it in my hands yet, but it's coming a uh a special giveaway. We're going to be doing a raffle for it and the proceeds of that are going right to you and the foundation um the Wish Foundation. So >> that is so incredible and so appreciated. Wow. We're we're gonna make make some kids wishes come true.
>> Yeah. I I know that Lorraine Leblanc, she was very adamant about wanting to help out with that and I said, "Let's do it. Let's let's get on board and and do what we can for it." And I really appreciate that. Uh we do have I saw that. Yep. There is Linda putting up a rockartcards.com and uh there's a link for it also down below in the description of tonight's show. There's a link for it there as well. uh if you'd like to uh you know now are you selling these cards on there that you just buy you can buy all the different >> No yeah I'll we'll ship anywhere in the world. Um that's the whole point. It just took a took us a while to kind of build the website and and get it up and running and we we just literally just launched it this last week. So you guys are the first to actually know about it.
Uh >> great.
>> Yeah, it's exciting. And and I think I've got some paintings that I'm donating to to the Oak Con as well. So they'll that'll be available to you as well.
>> So >> you're gonna sell out, Fiona. That's what Andy said.
>> Jeff, I think I think you need to I think you need to invite Fiona back to talk about her bike ride one day. I want to know more.
>> Oh, I know, right?
>> That was exhausting.
>> Like you rode your bike across Canada.
What? Like >> Yeah. No, I literally did. I was I joined a team a team of cyclists to do that. And the funny thing is I hadn't been on a bike since I was 18. I I I don't know why I thought I could do it, but I did it. I trained for a year. It it was it was a lot and we were doing an average of uh between 150 to 165 kilometers a day and for for a month straight because it took us that long to get across the country. Um but it was an incredible experience. So yeah, I'd be happy to talk about that.
>> Yeah, I'm kind of free time now, >> right? I don't have the time to do it now. That's the problem.
>> Well, of course, we don't know what's going to happen this summer, but you never know. I mean, you might be busy.
So, >> yeah. But uh all right, Leard and Eric, what does that say? V.
>> Yeah, they've done bike rides.
>> Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep.
>> I don't know how to say his last name.
Sorry. But yeah, I'm familiar remember Eric talking about or Lar talking about his.
>> Go ahead. What was that?
>> Sorry. I was just I'm talking about Lar.
I remember him when he was on He was talking about it with you >> on one of your podcasts, his bike ride.
>> He does it every year, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah, he does. He's been great in raising money for for for the found.
Well, he did it for a different church, but it was all cancer research, >> so it was great.
>> Oh, yeah. There's some uh Christiey's talking about uh my grandson was four and his younger brother was two when his uh Makea-Wish trip uh was gifted. Uh he wanted to go to Disney World and uh Yeah. So, give kids.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, the the wishes can come in many forms, too. It's not I mean trips and things are great because they the kids really need to kind of get away from from their treatments for a while because >> my son's wish was very different and I hope it's okay if I share it.
>> Absolutely.
>> He was uh he was very very ill. He had leukemia um and was pretty well in hospital for probably about 11 months.
He didn't get a lot of time to come at home and and he he kept for he kept he knew about the wish and he wanted to do something but he wasn't able to go on trips. he wasn't able to leave the country because of his illness. So his wish w was a very very different type of wish once he was told he was paliotative. Um he his wish was actually to bring my my younger brother and his family from BC to come and be with him when he died. So it's a really come very very different kind of wish but it was a really loving thing that they did um because we didn't have a lot of time when when we found out he was going to pass away in the end because we didn't really we never believed that he would.
Um, we only had about 10 days from the time he died. So, that the Wish Foundation was very quick. It was New Year's Eve and they literally, it was a big snowstorm coming and they got the last flight out of BC to to fly my brother, his family here. They put them up in put them up in a hotel and and paid for their meals for for like a couple of weeks while so that they could be here during his paleotative times.
And and I'm forever grateful for that.
It was an incredible I wouldn't have been able to to support them during that time because I had taken I had to take time off work for a year to to to you know to to live at the hospital with him.
>> So it was it was a very loving thing um on on both ends for for my son to actually want that as his wish but also for for how quickly the the foundation came to the table and made everything happen seamlessly that we didn't have to worry about a thing. So I'm I'll I'll always be forever grateful for that.
Yeah, it's a good charity and I'm and I'm glad you're a part of it and I'm glad we have a chance to help out as well.
>> Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it very >> Thank you for sharing all that. That's very personal, but yeah, thank you for sharing.
>> It really means a lot. And um uh yeah, I see there's Lorraine in there. Uh yeah, with her comment there, too. So, yeah, we we're going to do what we can to really help out. So, all right. So, now let's uh let's jump back over to lot five just a moment. I wanted to ask you and and again I have to be very careful and you might have to be careful on your answer on this but looking at the artifacts that you found and there's been so many Venetian beads and all these different things that you found on lot five in that main feature what do you think has been one of the most uh surprising to you that you are allowed to talk about is there can you pick out like one or two that are really >> artifacts >> yes >> well I probably yeah there's there's probably numerous ones that are surprising to me. Um I gotta think about make sure that that things have aired.
>> Yeah, I know. If that if this puts you in a weird spot, we'll just >> I'll I can think of a few of some of the irons. Okay, that that's one thing. Some of the irons I find very very fascinating because we because we have this wonderful lab we're able to do a little bit more intricate um analysis on some of the irons and some of the irons that that we have found >> not just the regular nails and things have actually come back you know dating from the 1600s late 1600s early 1700s you know anywhere 1680 1720 I mean that's ballpark range and and again an outlier because that shouldn't be there people tended to keep things some things for a period of time and yes, you'll repurpose some things, but to find irons that are so pure. Um, and we were when we did some analysis on them, we were on a few of them, the we were actually able to get some close matches to the same irons at Sir William Fipp's birthplace site, which means that these irons came from the same source. It doesn't mean that they came from Sir William Fipp's house. It just means that they would have gotten them from the same source. And that's not that common to to be to be able to be very specific. So some of those finds I've been very find very very fascinating because that actually also coincides with some of the historical research that we've been doing which which we can touch on at any point. That was fascinating. I think some of the other finds that I've been finding really fascinating is some of the artillery and and military items that we find. Um just when you look at um we have tons of musk balls. We find things like that, but we found this really piece of grapeshot, you know, things like that. You you you probably saw uh I think on the last one we talked about a mini cannon that that some of those types of when you start getting artillery and things like that. That's not a normal person that would have those kinds of araments on them. And I find that can tell a bit of a story as well. We know there's privateeers in these waters, piracy as well. Um, so but but a normal person living on an island would not have that type of artillery, right?
>> So those kinds of things I find fascinating because you have to open your eyes. You have to be open-minded >> about anything. I'm not really big on a lot of theories. I'm very practical and I like to look at the facts. Lar is very much the same.
>> Yep.
>> But some of the things we found, we go, "Wow, we got to think about this and we got to think about that." And and so we're we're very careful to keep our minds open about anything that we're finding.
>> Yeah. I saw a couple people bring up the folded coin. I don't think you guys found that there. I I think uh was that found in the >> That was Gary. Gary found that doing the metal detecting and it was really close.
Yeah. It was it was just way back when, remember the lot lines prior to 1765 didn't exist, right? So if you if you're finding something that that's quite old, it didn't nobody differentiated between what lot it was found on. Even if it might have been the border between lot four, lot five, that that's where where that was found.
>> Um, but here, think about the lead paste jewels.
>> Those are fascinating. We we found three of them already. You you think if somebody lost one that they'd be worried about it, but the fact that we found three with and and they weren't that far away from each other, you know, maybe maybe a matter of 10 or 15 feet between them. When I think about >> some were found within the feature, another one was found kind of more in the yard area. But those are really interesting items because that's um that's the type of thing that a normal person shouldn't have, right? Um royalty or or people that that had um royalty is probably not the right word. People with with more money with higher means would have been the type of people that would have had that type of object. Um like even when you think of um royalty, I mean that that is one of them. They they tended when they traveled they didn't want to bring their their high-end jewels with them. So they would make reproductions and that's where a lot of these lead paste jewels came in from.
>> That makes perfect sense.
>> Yeah. They they would they still wanted to be glittery and they wanted to show their status um but they didn't want to lose lose their their precious jewels.
So that paints a picture of what type of person and the status of the type of person that might have been there as well. So those again are and why would you have a high status person on an island in the middle of the Atlantic >> unless it was something important.
>> Yes. Exactly. Very important. Yeah.
David Niss, there he is. Mr. Author himself. Uh, and of course, he's going to ask the question about plant material. Uh, are they actively taking samples of plant material, fiber, in these constructs?
>> Uh, I think it depends on where we are on the island. If you're referring to lot five, not so much because the there really wasn't a lot of plant material that we were finding within the feature.
Um, but we always look for seeds. Seeds and things can be very telltale. Uh, they're they're in in historical times.
You have to think people lived very differently than we do now. And when they came overseas or they came from afar, sometimes they did bring plant matter with them. And that can be a really telltale sign of of where somebody may have come from if you can find plants that are not native to the area that are growing in the environment. In fact, there there's a fellow called Jonathan Fowler. It's not Jonathan Feller, sorry. He's from St. Mary's. Another another um Oh, I'm his name's um Erskin. John Erskin. He he is he was not an archaeologist, but he he has spent a lifetime of his work studying plant material more so in the Acadians and and the valley in Nova Scotia. And he can actually tell where an an old Acadian homeite might have been because of the plants and the the the types of plants that are growing in the yard. And he will say that was a homestead. and and he knows why. So, we do look look out for that type of thing.
Certainly on other lots more so than lot five because lot five has been well trampled and we're just we're not seeing the same things there.
>> But but that's a really great question.
>> Oh, Barbara just ordered a card or ordered cards.
>> Oh, thank you so much. That that's >> web the site is easy to check out, too.
All right.
>> Oh, great.
>> Check. All right. Good deal. All right.
It's already working for you. All right.
So, before we leave lot five, uh I would be aiss if I didn't mention uh the the feature the the uh the modern well that was not a well. Uh or at least I don't think it was. And I know it hasn't been fully excavated yet, but um when I saw uh Marty and Gary go over there and lift off that plywood and you see those 4x4 posts going across there. I'm like, "Okay, this is a well. What is this?" And then finally we got a look at it with all the leaves and everything cleaned out of it.
And I was like, "Well, wait a minute.
There's only stone on one going across one side of it. Wouldn't a well have the stone all the way around?" I mean, what what I know I know you can't say too much about this yet, but >> Well, it's funny that that's that's a feature that we walk by all the time.
Um, but and and we've we've always had interest in it. I don't want people to think that we that we don't, but you have to keep in mind that we only have so much time and we've spent so much we've dedicated so much to trying to figure out what the other feature is that this has kind of been something that we'd hope to get to. Um, and now that we're, you know, we we really only had a few days in it at the end of the season to to to really start looking at it. But we we yeah, it was always called the well, but that's because that's what Robert Young called it. And Robert Young again put that circle of stones around that that structure as well. The same circle that he put on the the big feature um which which is the rectangular feature. Now there was a circular feature. Um he did the same thing there and we were always curious about it. So um >> yeah I it's the well not a well.
>> Well it's not a well. Yeah. Exactly.
>> Well it's not the well.
>> Oh my gosh. I can't wait to see, you know, and I and I've been known to say this on the podcast many times as we went. Yeah, stay tuned, Lisa. Exactly.
Stay tuned. Um hopefully if there's a season 14, we'll get to see this thing fully excavated. But, uh, one of the things that I, you know, and I say on the podcast, you know, when we're going through the episodes, was that I, if it were me, and again, I know that time is of essence, so you only have so much time and so many people to do the work, but I would go from lot three all the way to lot eight, nine, and I would go through every little feature I could find in there to see if we don't have a village of foundations in this area because It just seems like in in the tie between some of the uh dirt materials between lot five and the money pit matching and you're kind of like okay if you had people working even the people that were doing the work in in the swamp area to build the road to build the platform to build all the different features that we've seen in there and the money pit itself Nolan's Cross >> you're going to need a team of people you're going to need a lot of workers now these people got to eat they got to sleep They got to have somewhere to, you know, worship maybe, you know, so there could be a village hiding underneath the ground that you guys haven't even found yet. So, >> yeah. And and we because we concentrate on, you know, certain areas at a time.
Uh it's it's it's frustrating a little bit for us because we would love to dig up the whole island, but as you say, it's a big island.
>> 142 acres, something like that. And um and geologically it's very different from one side of the island to the other. And the money area we don't we tend you don't see a lot of archaeology up there because a lot of it's been um blasted with with dynamite and bulldozed over the years from various searchers.
So a lot of the integrity of that part of the artifacts and you you would just wouldn't get the same information as we do from the other side of the island.
>> But yeah, no we um we would love to be able to do more and we just don't have the the time um and the manpower. So, it's it's just a matter of of of persevering and while you're young.
>> So, we have to we have to pick and choose what we look at and and uh sometimes you don't remember you don't see the features. They're they're hidden in the ground and time time and and moss and everything hides things. So, to be able to find things is is not always easy. I mean, the whole story about how we found lot 8 is is a a story in itself. And um >> let's segue right over there.
>> Sure. I may as well. We weren't looking for lot 8 when when when when it was found. We were actually looking I had done a lot of research as as we felt that there may have been a foundation on one of the other lots. So, we were scouting for for going and you literally literally walking through the dirt and looking looking in under the brush to see if we could see anything that was standing out.
>> And we Lar was the one who found lot 8.
But what what wasn't the boulder that he was looking at? It was actually this really um strange appearance of these rocks kind of to the south end of the the bold boulder. And he was and he as he was walking >> looking for this other thing that I had researched he saw this debris field what I'd call it debris field. It was just this whole area. It was quite widespread of these rocks that just didn't look right. And so it wasn't we weren't looking at the big boulder. We were looking at these rocks in front of the boulder. and and and you know he thought you know this could possibly be evidence of a of a seller or something like that and that was what interested him in that particular area and then he brought us over as a team and and then the work progressed from there and it of course is turning out to be something not a seller not what we thought it was at all and it's been incredibly eye opening >> something absolutely so different from anything else on the island and pretty well anything else in in Canada for that matter better. It's It's really becoming something. It's It's got a life of its own right now.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. It's been so fun for speculators like me because, you know, it's like like you said, there's and Lar said it too. You know, he's look he's I think I think in one show he said, you know, and I know it's I see a clip, right? I don't know the full context, but he said, you know, I can't find anything in North America like it.
>> Yeah. No. And and it's very true. It's it's it's a work in progress.
I think that's it's hard because people think that the minute we look at something we're going to have answers right away and it it doesn't work like that. We need we need and when keep in mind when we're in our digging season too, we're doing really long days. We got 11 hour days that we're working on.
But and you don't doesn't leave a lot of time at the end of the day to do your proper research. So a lot of that research is really done in the winter time, the winter months when we're looking at other things and doing our analysis and artifact curation. All of that uh doesn't take place necessarily uh on the day that we're finding something. So things are slower in our world. Um >> yeah to be >> yeah it started off with you know and we saw that a little bit of that progression as it went along. Uh Marty, I'm sorry, Rick uh was taken over there by Leair and looking at all that moss covered all the jumble of rocks that were around the one end there uh on the south end as you said and um you know and he said it just doesn't look right and I'm just curious about all this and then started cleaning all the rocks off and lo and behold now you start pulling them out and then to actually find and this is what really fascinated me and I think a lot of people as well was the fact that this boulder This lot 8 boulder was being suspended up off of the ground a little ways to where you were able to put a snake camera underneath it with ease and look at the you know because there was a space underneath there.
>> Okay. So, that right there is like, why would this thing be being held by the rocks that went around the outside, keeping it from laying fully on this bed underneath it?
>> That was the first thing.
>> Oh, it was I agree. It was very eye opening to see that. You you think a a glacial erratic, if that's what you want to call it, we have a lot of them in Nova Scotia. And if you think about it, they really the way that they kind of get deposited is is they're they're they're on the ice literally will carry these rocks as they go and when the ice melts, they they sink and they should be literally in subs soil. They should be in in situ and they should be touching the ground. So when we when as we were excavating and realizing that this was not the case that we that that itself we we couldn't understand why that why it was and when as you say you could get the camera underneath once the boulder was lifted as you've seen you could actually tell that there was lift it was leaning on one side on on kind of the east side you could see where the pressure was within that mosaic pattern of rocks that we uncovered underneath.
You can see the imprint on one side on on the east side but not on the left side. So that was one observation that there was all this space underneath which is not normal at all. Plus you could tell that there was an an area of about one foot where the boulder was back a foot than where it should have been in its place because there was a a total definition of soil that look that could have been manplaced in front of it. Um, but it all it had the imprint of where the boulder should have been sitting, >> but the boulder was a foot backwards.
So, how do you get a boulder that large?
You know, I think it was like 40,000 pounds that that's that's moved um that's sitting on this beautiful cradle area of this what I love to say mosaic rock.
>> Yeah. And like you you nailed it. It was beautiful. It's a beautiful mosaic that you guys uncovered and it just blows my mind. You can move a rock if you need it to mark something, but to go to that trouble of creating that and then to place the rock to where all that is preserved, not just while you were moving it, but for hundreds of years afterwards.
>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No. And and the camera the cameras were were just an extra bonus. But when we were looking and using these cameras, the problem one of the problems we had is that you you c we couldn't tell the magnification size of of what we were looking at. You know, this was just a camera that like a little Milwaukee camera that you kind of look at. Like we were actually taking coins and holding the camera up to try to get an idea of the size of of what this object would look like looking at it this way versus underneath because we couldn't tell the objects that we were looking at. We couldn't tell how how big or how small they really really were.
They they weren't true to size. So, it was a little confusing for us. But just the fact that we could get something underneath it and and trying to figure out how far underneath we could get it.
>> I think that alone was blowing us away.
>> Yeah, it was blowing all of us away, too. And I and I know I'm going to be a little careful here. I saw a couple of of uh comments pop up on the screen that Linda put up. Um because we did see some speculation that was shown on the program about, you know, when the camera was in there, we saw something that looked like a little pearl or saw something that looked like uh gold colored dust or something in there. A little Can you speak to any of that at all? And we saw many bags, many bags of >> Oh, I took bags of dirt.
>> We kept everything. Um, they all called me the soil hoarder because I I don't think it was any any big like we normally when you take a sample of soil to the to the lab for analysis, you're you're doing something that should only be like this big. You don't that much.
But but but remember we were looking um one of the other viewers had mentioned plant materials. We're looking for everything. We because there was such a lack of artifacts, you have we have to look at the natural surroundings itself and and what else could we be looking for? So we're looking for seeds. were looking for anything that we had a we had a flotation table set up so that we could try to find anything of this debris, but there's so many samples that that we're we're still going through them. It it's it's a work in progress.
Um so it's we don't have all of our answers with with with all of this.
We're we're still like we work all year round. So we're still doing even during the winter, we've been working on on a lot of these uh the samples as well and and there's still more to go through.
But some of what we were seeing on the camera wasn't what we were seeing in in reality, you know, and and I think you you kind of saw that. But but >> um but we're not finished yet with it all.
>> But but yeah, I know that they mentioned the pearl. We we didn't see a pearl.
What we thought thought was a pearl was something else because of the magnification. So there was a little bit of that. Um, I think I think what you what the viewers probably saw um we also thought was what we were >> but it's but it's not until the boulder was lifted when we were starting to really see what was underneath and as I said we're still going through a lot of those samples.
>> Great. can't wait to hear, you know, and I think that that was one of the things that was mentioned. Uh I think Lear mentioned it that he was so surprised that the area this the sample that what you were what you were able to go through and what you excavated your way through was pretty much artifact free, which is data in itself.
Um, >> and that that was really astounding to me because whoever was doing this was very very careful not to drop anything or leave anything behind apparently. But the undertaking of this entire project and and whether you find, you know, underneath there, we know that it the show ended. The last thing we saw was was Scott Barlo putting the hammer drill down through there with like a three-foot bit on it and he was going through um and the fact that there was no slate. That's what that at least that's what the show portrayed to us that he was not hitting slate down over there and yet you were already deeper than the excavation that Marty had done with the backhoe. uh he went alongside there and he did that. He did a couple scoops and and then you know started getting some I'm gonna say shards of the uh slate underneath and he said he was scraping along as he was you know so he knew he was hitting the bedrock there but yet >> three four feet over you're deeper than that already and there's no slate.
>> Yeah.
>> At least not from the drill going down >> again.
>> We we scratch our heads so many times thinking are we crazy? like is is this geologically possible for this to be natural? And there there was just too many indicators to to say that it's not natural, right? From we talked about that that area of rocks that was in front of it to the to the south end of it.
>> Well, as we were removing those rocks, one of the key things that was was a real eye openener is that we weren't finding soil. The soil had been removed.
So, we're getting rocks with voids. And as you remove the rocks, when I was standing in front of the boulder at one point, I was 4t 10 in down from the soil line of the where when you look at the boulder, you could see a staining around the the bottom of the boulder. That's where the natural soil lines would have been. Well, I was 4t 10 feet down and I hadn't removed soil. I had only been removing rocks. So, you could clearly see that that that that's not normal.
You would expect a soil accumulation.
You're not just going to have hollow areas in some parts. Um, and and you could also tell where the cut lines were. Remember I talked about being soil readers. We're looking at the colors of the soil. And as we remove the rocks of the south end and this big debris field of rocks, >> you could clearly see where the soils had been cut down into to create this this channel like area, this one thing.
So, we knew that wasn't natural.
>> Um, there were so many things I could go on and on about that the things that were were not natural. Um, and there were different types of rocks, too. It wasn't just like one geological deposit of one type of rocks. We were getting gray wacky. We were getting slate. There was bits of granite. All natural to the area. We were look we're were looking for rocks that may be unnatural. It wouldn't make sense for me for somebody to be bringing rocks from another area, country, or that doesn't make sense. And and that wasn't the case. But um but still, you could tell that it it's geologically not natural just and that's just one area of the feature. There there's so many more areas that that I could talk about too that were also proof that that we think that this was touched by man. Um >> well I think you know I'm I'm convinced already and I haven't even seen it uh other than on TV. But I mean seriously you look at it and you guys are and and Rick was down there at one point and he was trying to get that one rock loose and he was yanking on it and Rick's a strong guy, you know, I mean >> and he could not pull that rock loose.
that had to be pried loose later on.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and and and the mortar. Thank you.
>> And it looked like these things were mortared in there.
>> Yes.
>> I mean, is that still the understanding today or >> Yeah. You you could clearly tell that these rocks were had been placed in certain areas and when I'm referring more to the cradle area which was underneath underneath once we had lifted the boulder and there was kind of three types. I'll call it a mortar like material. I don't want to call it mortar because mortar would imply that you know like you could buy a chemical compound and you'll mix it up and make it. This this kind of was it it feels like it was uh they were taking making use of the natural environment and and and creating a mortar like substance that could be used to keep things in place. And there was three different areas or three different types of this which can also allude to different times when that this was being done. I'm I'm not saying this was done over a 100 year period. That's not what I mean. I'm just meaning that that you know they use different materials. But the materials when we looked at it through in the lab and because we analyze everything. We we took samples of the mortar um and it seems like this was natural substances from the local area that had been reer like mixed and used up to be used as this material. Um, we tried, you know, we did samples trying to look at whether any of this might have matched the money pit, whether it matched the mortar like materials we had at lot five. Because going back to lot five, keep in mind we found that um the maroon till which was a 99% match to to the the till that you find only geologically at the other side of the island deep down uh was down in the money pit. It's something that's that's found at least 65 to 100 ft down down in the earth and it's not natural to that side of the island. So, we were looking for similar things. We are not finding quite the same thing. It doesn't match the maroon till, but certainly we can say that that this material had been repurposed um repurposed naturally and used in different areas of the feature.
>> Yeah.
>> To to keep the rocks in place. It was very evident, >> man. It's and again I go back to that what I said earlier about the whether whether or not it it uh ends up being nothing underneath there at all. Then that would almost have to tell me that the rock was placed there as a marker stone or as some sort of a marker or something for someone and they didn't want it to move and so they put it that way on purpose. But whether it's that a grave site underneath there, a tunnel entrance underneath there, if you dig down and all of a sudden you find a layer of of oak logs and then you find another one. I mean, whatever you find underneath this doesn't ma well, it does matter, but it still says that somebody thought that this was important enough to go through all the work that they did to place it there. Just so >> yeah, >> it blows my mind that they that they did that. So it was important, very important to them to make sure >> that it just this way.
>> And considering how far back some of the dates >> that could this thing could possibly reach back to, it was so meticulously and carefully put together. No, not you could never use the word crude to describe this construction. So, you know, they I I feel like they must have been thriving on the island to be able to even like put the resources towards this. You know, these >> you know, yeah, people thriving is the right word, but they were very different. They we we can't think of a people in terms of how we think today.
Their their reasons for doing things in the past were very different from things that we would do today. And I also think that people in in older times, they had more time. um they they they were methodical about the way they did things. I think sometimes with the light right leverage and things you it probably doesn't take as many people as you think to do uh if you have enough force and >> I'm not saying fulcrums and things. I'm just meaning that you'd be surprised as to what maybe a group of people could do um with with we just can't relate to it because it's not something that we would do. But I do think it was very purposeful. It was very intentional and I think it was it was too important um to do quickly and I think that's why we were taking our time with that lot eight Boulder you know I think people would have loved us to have just taken an excavator through to see what's underneath it but boy do you think it's information we would have lost and I'm very protective of that boulder because I think it's so important that I don't want to lose information from it and and it it just needs to be approached very carefully and and we're also you know bringing in other resources and we want geologists and other other people um to take a look and you know we're not just going to guess at this >> right >> and that's the beauty of what you guys do there too. You're not guessing.
>> No, >> you think well it could be this or it could be but we want to dig into this a little further and see what we find and lead us to a conclusion. And I love that about your approach. Yeah, >> because remember, we get put on the spot a lot when when when we're when there's cameras in front of you and people want answers immediately and we we then sometimes we're wrong in what we say.
Sometimes we think it's one thing, but then we then three days later we we've found something else that that that you may not see or the cameras may not necessarily show and we go, "Wait a minute, we got to rethink this a little bit." So, that's that's constant with with any of the features that we find along the island.
>> Yeah.
>> I I I got to bring this up. It's been uh mentioned by a couple of people in the chat here about GPR. I know that Yan Frankie has been out at the island and he's done he did uh some GPR work down in the uh uh the bore holes, the PVC pipe bore holes in the in the money pit and um but you know and and I don't know if he's done you know it's not it hasn't been aired that he went around the island and did work anywhere else. But is that something that you can Well, how do I approach this question without putting you on the spot? Um, is that out of the realm of possibility to have somebody do GPR work around this thing to see?
>> We look at all technologies. Um, that that's really important to us. We don't want to leave literally leave any stone unturned. However, sometimes it's not always appropriate to use certain types of of of methods um like that because geologically if there's a lot of rock that gets in the way that can you're not going to get the results. That's got to be part of it. Also, you got to look at the topography when you're in an area that's really uneven. Um you need to have very the best results are going to be from a a something that's not sloped or not undulating. um you can't get proper results with certain techniques.
So we can't use all types of techniques on on this feature. So we have to look at other resources as well which which which I can say yes we will certain we do and we certainly will and have looked at other types of um of of excuse me things that we can look at to to to find this out. I didn't answer that very well. Yeah, different types of science.
Yeah, we're we're always doing that.
It's just that you may not see it. And if we don't use it or if we don't refer to it, there's a reason that we don't refer to it. It's not because we're being ignorant, don't want to do it.
>> I wouldn't think that in a minute because I know that and that's that's one of the things that come up quite often. You know, I get questions like on this podcast here when it's all done and people are watching it after the fact. I get a lot of comments. Most of them very, very favorable. I will get the one on there going, "Why didn't they do this or why didn't they do that or they should have done this or that?" And the thing of it is is you probably have done this or that. We just didn't get to see it because we get to see about 1% of all the filming that is done throughout the entire season. So they decide and and I have to say our our friends over at Prometheus are very good about their special editing uh that might lead to certain lead you to believe certain conclusions or take you down a certain path when in fact that may not be exactly what you all feel as a team. You got a path that you feel is going and it might not be what they think. So they're going in a different way. I mean, it's >> no control over editing or anything to do with the show. Uh that we they they're never going to take our opinion on what what you know people want to see or what they're going to show. We have Yeah. zero control over that.
>> Yeah.
>> But look at lighter. We look at everything.
>> Yeah. Good. And I have a I have a a friend uh Pete Kelsey. He's uh works for the Secret of Skinwalker Ranch TV show.
Uh well, he does a lot of work. I mean, he's been featured on there, some of his LAR work, and he does absolutely fantastic LAR work. I'd love to have him out on Oak Island and fly over his drone and fly over and and just Well, I know the island has been light. I know that's been done already back in like 2018, 2019, something like that. They did LAR.
Uh, but he does multisspectral cameras and everything else from his drones. I think it would be really really good to have him come back and do it again but or do it on Oak Island for sure but um okay so we're getting close on time. Uh I did want to just ask you this too. Um whether there's a season 14 or not which we really don't know if uh what what's what's an area whether there's cameras there or not. What's an area that you look forward to getting back into this season or this year?
>> Well could if you could do it. There's there's always work that's still undone.
I mean, obviously there anything that we've started and haven't finished, we would still like to continue with. Um, but there's also other areas of the island that we've always had our sights on and we would like to explore that as well. So, that's a really hard question.
>> Stay tuned.
>> Yeah. Yeah. There's there's lots to look at and as you guys even said, we'd like to look at every lot. So when we look at certain bits of history, the history will sometimes lead us to sites that we want to look at, but not always.
Sometimes it's a visual. As I said, like >> yeah, >> lot eight boulder particular perfect example. I don't think I ever would have found that. Lar had really eagle eyes to find >> what what you know that debris field.
When I looked at it initially, I went I'm not so sure that that's what this is. Um but he really saw something in it. So kudos to him for having such eagle eyes.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, okay. So, we're we're like I said, we're getting close on time. So, let's just tease because I'm gonna I'm gonna Well, I I was going to say I won't beg, but I might beg a little have you come back one day. I know that uh you know um you know, your time is precious to you. And uh so we'll just see when when that possibility comes that we could have you come back because I know that this uh what we talked about your presentation that you did at U Island convention uh or conference last year was really really cool. Can you just give us a few highlights in the remaining minutes we have here to talk about >> sure that presentation really the connection with these people? Um yeah, sure. It's a hard one to do very I know I know but no but it I think what was really fascinating and it all started from really from lot five and some of the work we were doing and I think I mentioned some of the medals that we were finding um and I found really intriguing and we kept getting hints of Sir William Fipps and and that that kind of kept striking a chord for me because I'm again I'm not a big theorist. I like to go with with um facts and science and but but at the same time remember I run the archives and I started getting into historical research and as I was doing so um Scott Clark has a really good book about this called the Odyssey and and I and I I talked to Scott a bit and and he had me um we and I had had some conversations about some of the main players that he was seeing on Oak Island. And then when I was starting to do my research and starting to put two and two together, it turned out that Sir William Febs, of course, my area of interest, um, his right-hand man was Captain Andrew Belchure.
>> Yep.
>> And it turns out that that Captain Andrew Belchure is related to every single one of the searcher families that have been um a part of the search on Oak Island since 1803. like literally they were so intertwined the families like there's the Lynn family, the Archabald family, uh there there's more of them that that that they that they're all related and I I didn't clue in initially how related they were. And it came right to the fact that Anthony Vaughn, one of the original um person one of the guys who who found the money, >> he's actually married into that family.
He was Nelson who was a third cousin to Simeon Linds and Simeon Lind was the one who formed the first Onslow company that of searchers that started looking on Oak Island. So they had insider information and the fact that all of these searchers are related to Captain Andrew Belure just makes me feel that somebody knew something and I don't feel that you're going to lead your family astray with information. Not that many. I I have charts of all of the inter relationships with the people and I can't remember how many families in total generations generations of families. Yeah. And it's not just the families of the searchers.
It actually is other political figures too that they were related to like the Prescott family. Um who was a big mover and shaker in on in Nova Scotia. Oh boy, there's there's so Jonathan Belchin Jr.
Well, gosh, he's related to the Belchures as well. you know, they they were um he was part of the the governor.
He worked under Governor Charles Lawrence. There there was more because you won't have time for it all, but even some of the financial backers, Sir William Fipps, um the the Monk family, the Monk family ended up being um coming being descendants as well, and they were one of the ones that were related to the the families when they were doing the original surveying of Oak Island. the the one of the monks was was under the toutelage of of Charles Morris who was one of the big surveyors. They were there was just there's too many relationships even to the fact of of Sir William Peril who was who was s Captain Andrew Belchure's um who okay Captain Andrew Belchure was Sir William Pipp's right-hand man. Well, his financial partner because he used to do a lot of um trading and things he was big into the shipping industry. Well, his partner ended up being the the person who financed and backed the the attack against the fortress of Lewisburg. Like there's Yeah, there are so many intertwined people that all had to do with Oak Island in the end. Like too many that I could possibly even name um that that Wow. You you can't ignore that. And and I just don't feel that these people would have been so heavily invested financially, time, and generations of families like in like Frederick Blair. He he was in it. U Blair was in from the 1800s right through 1951. He was a part of it. And I I just Yeah. It's it's it's really insidious.
>> Yeah. And they are all uh you know, Freemasons. Masons. uh you know I mean and and that you know Scott and that book that you mentioned from Scott Clark is >> hand I've got I don't have I'm obviously mobile here and I don't have my copy with me. It's actually in storage right now but >> I've got I don't have as many Post-it notes in mine as as Tom >> Tom right >> Tom's got it but it's a great reference material. It is awesome >> uh in that respect. So yeah, when you say that they all knew something uh important about Oak Island, yes, I believe they did. And that just adds more validity to the fact that there is something there or was something there.
I maybe still is. But you know, and Marty mentioned this, I think on the season finale or just the last couple of episodes, he made a comment where he said it might have been the one with Matty Blake even after the show, the uh behind the scen, you know, or uh u drilling down that he did where he mentioned Marty had made a comment about searchers before the searchers. Okay, 1795 money pits found, >> but he said something about searchers before that. And that's something that I kind of leaned on a little bit too because it almost seems as though there because of the artifacts that you guys are finding from the late 1600s that somebody might have already been back there and looked for a treasure or something. And >> yeah, I think we need to come back and talk about this because there's a whole convention with Robert Melvin. And if you get me going, I'll go a little tangent about that. Robert. And of course, he's the owner of lot five and lot eight.
>> Oh, >> he had two, five, six, seven, eight, uh, 12. He owned lot 19 on the other side of the money pit. He he had a couple of other ones. I think 22, 29, and maybe 30, 31, I think. Like, he had so many lots. And that's a whole other separate topic on its own. and he was there during all of these digs that we're talking about and the features that we've been uncovering. He was a big part of all of that.
>> I'm so conspiratorial. You're making me think like, okay, are these people there because their family was like, "There's treasure we need to uncover." Or were they there because their family was like, "Go embed yourself in the hunt.
Make sure they don't uncover the treasure. It's our duty to hide it." And then I have a question for one last thing. Were you like looking, you know, this would have been me ad at work the next day like, "Hey, what's your grandparents' names? When did they die?"
You know, like were you looking into the genealogical records of some of your co-workers to see if there's any connections?
>> Charles.
>> Yeah. A lot of local names. Yeah. Many of these people that came here, you know, in the in the 1700s when during the plantars and when when they were um when under Governor Lawrence when they were had this big settlement resettlement after the Acadians were expelled. Many of these family names still exist here and Melvin was one of them. And yeah, we have to come back and talk about Melvin point because he was here before he ever moved here. He had other ties to this area. And it was very interesting that he purposely came back to this area and purposely bought more and more lots on Oak Island. And this was a man of of of gentleman means. He had he had money. He didn't need to be spending as much time on Oak Island as he did, but he did for a very particular reason. So >> there you go.
>> That could be a whole show in itself.
>> I'm Well, you know what? And I and I have a feeling that you're going to be really busy pretty quickly. And uh you know I don't know when we can have you back but I tell you what we have to we have to have you back. Uh when whenever you are free and you have some time you can fit it in somewhere. You just let me know. Okay.
>> And I will let everyone else know and we'll do another show because there's so much more. Oh Fiona, this has been fantastic. I knew that having you on what what an education, Seth. I mean do you can you imagine?
>> Yeah. This has been fantastic. such such a treat for for us and I feel like everybody in the chat it's like we're getting to sit down with someone that we feel like we know on the TV show, you know, and now it's like it it it solidifies all those good warm feelings we get from you and your castmates and your co-workers. It's like, okay, you know, it's you're a real person and you share our excitement. I mean, obviously this is your job, but it's it's so it's such a treat to see your love and your passion and to get to know >> just everything else you're doing and your own personal from your personal stories to your professional life. Thank you so much.
>> Yeah, thanks for that.
>> Yeah, folks, again, uh for those of you who might have missed it, uh we had a couple pictures of some of uh uh Fiona's paintings and we do here I'll I'll just put them up here real quick again. Uh here's one of them here. there. These are uh on available on uh her website.
It's um >> rockartcards.com.
>> Yeah, rockartcards.com.
Uh she's selling these cards with these paintings on them and it's for the Makea-Wish Foundation of Canada or Wish Foundation of Canada.
>> Um the proceeds are going there and uh yeah, and so check it out. Uh there's a link for it down below in the chat or in the description of the show. You can click on that, take you right there. Uh, thank you. Uh, Linda just put it back up on the screen there for you guys to check out. Um, it's going to be a great thing again this year that she's involved in. And, uh, and we're going to try to help as much as we can during the Oak Island Conference that's coming up here in June. It's all sold out. I wish we had more tickets, but h stay tuned because there might be another one next year, so you never know. And we might have a bunch more tickets available for that one. So, uh, are they watercolors?
Somebody's asking, are they watching >> acrylics? I like to paint in acrylics.
>> Yeah, that's Christina does too. I You can actually Well, you can't see them.
It's too dark and there's several of them behind me that she's been working on. But, uh, yeah. So, you guys you two are going to have to talk when you when you get to see you again in June. So, >> I would love it.
>> All right. Well, thank you, Fiona. Oh my gosh, this has been absolutely wonderful. I thank you for taking time out of your day to share it with all of us. Uh it's really fantastic. I'm I'm so >> It's my pleasure.
>> Yeah. Can't wait to have you back on, folks. I hope you've enjoyed uh the evening we've had here with Fiona Steel uh and talking about the Oak Island and all the different lots and all of that.
Uh well, thank you very much, Joanne. Uh appreciate that, John. Thank you for helping support the show. Appreciate it.
Uh we uh again, uh thank you all so much. If you like the content of the show we did here for you tonight, consider giving us a thumbs up. Uh, and after the show is done, it takes a little bit of time and on your phone if you would. Uh, there's also the new hype feature that you can use. We really appreciate that. Tell a friend, get this podcast out to as many people as possible so they can all share in the information that we just learned from Fiona tonight. Again, Seth, thank you.
Fiona, thank you. Linda, thank you for moderating once again. And all of you, thank you for being here. And we'll catch you next time right here on the JFree 906 podcast. Good night, everybody. Thank you. Good night.
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