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Prosecutor Grills Son Of Gas Station Owner Who Killed Teenager — Entire Cross-Exam
Added: 2026-05-30

487 views121:38:17MeghannCuniffOriginal Release: 2026-05-29

This video demonstrates how a prosecutor cross-examines a witness to test the consistency and credibility of their testimony by highlighting contradictions between their current statements and prior statements, questioning their memory and perception, and challenging their version of events through detailed questioning about physical details, timelines, and actions.

[00:00:01]Scott, as a child, you were 23 years old, correct? Uh, >> yes, sir. In >> 2023, you were 20 years old, correct?

[00:00:08]>> Yes, sir.

[00:00:09]>> And at the time, you were a student at USC. Is that true?

[00:00:12]>> Yes, sir.

[00:00:12]>> And you had already graduated Hammond Academy, correct?

[00:00:16]>> Yes, sir.

[00:00:17]>> Okay.

[00:00:19]>> Uh, if I ask any questions that you need me to repeat, I'm happy to do it.

[00:00:22]>> Okay.

[00:00:23]>> You had graduated Hammond at the time?

[00:00:24]>> Yes, sir.

[00:00:24]>> And that is a private school here in Colombia, correct?

[00:00:27]>> Yes, sir.

[00:00:27]>> And you swam on the swim team, correct?

[00:00:29]Yes, sir.

[00:00:30]>> Did you get any college scholarships?

[00:00:32]>> No, sir.

[00:00:32]>> You were 5' 11", 200 lb at the time, correct?

[00:00:35]>> Um, around that.

[00:00:38]>> Yeah. Have you mentioned before under oath that at the time you were 5'11, 200 lb?

[00:00:43]>> Yes, sir.

[00:00:43]>> Okay. Uh, how much do you weigh now?

[00:00:46]>> Um, 185.

[00:00:49]>> Okay. So, you were significantly bigger at the time.

[00:00:52]>> Significantly.

[00:00:54]>> 15 lbs bigger.

[00:00:55]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:00:56]>> Okay. Uh, at the time you were working at your parents uh, Sher Gas Station at 7441 Parkplane Road, correct?

[00:01:03]>> Yes, sir.

[00:01:03]>> And they had owned that store about 10 to 12 years at that time?

[00:01:06]>> Yes, sir.

[00:01:07]>> Okay. How long did you work there?

[00:01:09]>> Um, well, I came to help uh, for I guess since we opened.

[00:01:19]>> You were familiar with the stores. Is that true?

[00:01:21]>> Uh, yes sir.

[00:01:22]>> Okay. And uh had you become aware of the crime of shoplifting in your time working in the store and being around the store?

[00:01:30]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:01:32]>> All right. What is shoplifting?

[00:01:34]>> Uh someone stole something.

[00:01:37]>> Okay. And that happened more than once in the 10 to 12 years your parents had owned the store as of 2023.

[00:01:43]>> Uh yes sir.

[00:01:44]>> Okay. Had you developed a policy or had your parents developed a policy in dealing with shops?

[00:01:52]Yes, sir.

[00:01:53]>> Okay. In 2023, uh you were studying computer information systems. Isn't that true?

[00:01:59]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:00]>> And your father was familiar with computers and computer technology as well. Isn't that true?

[00:02:05]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:05]>> He had actually taught small college as far as uh lessons in computers, correct?

[00:02:10]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:11]>> Isn't it true? Computers can do amazing things.

[00:02:14]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:14]>> Okay. They can um help with DNA extraction and going through millions of propositions. Isn't that correct?

[00:02:23]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:24]>> Okay. Um they're able to um synthesize uh surveillance systems and um produce high quality videos. Isn't that correct?

[00:02:35]>> Uh they can.

[00:02:37]>> Okay. And you you yourself and your parents at the Shell gas station at 7441 Parkane Road had a very sophisticated surveillance system. Isn't that true?

[00:02:45]>> Uh, yes sir.

[00:02:46]>> Okay. And you were able to identify shoplifterss with that system, were you not?

[00:02:51]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:52]>> Okay. And you had a wall of shame above the cash register. Isn't that true?

[00:02:57]>> Yes, sir.

[00:02:58]>> What is the wall of shame?

[00:03:00]>> Um, there's pictures and descriptions of um past uh shoplifterss.

[00:03:08]>> Okay.

[00:03:12]Can I ask states 44? Stephanie, >> do you recognize the wall of shame in states 44?

[00:03:18]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:03:38]Andy, while she pulls up, what is the purpose of the wall of shame?

[00:03:42]um to show who and what they stole.

[00:03:48]>> Okay. What is the purpose of showing who and what stole or who stole and what they stole?

[00:03:56]>> Uh to show other customers.

[00:04:00]>> Okay. And to show law enforcement?

[00:04:02]>> Um they can if they come in.

[00:04:05]>> Okay. And if somebody steals and makes your wall of shame and they come back in, are you able to identify them?

[00:04:12]>> Uh me myself or >> anyone? Why would you have the wall of shame? Why would you have a picture of the shoplifter up is to identify them, right?

[00:04:24]>> Uh it can be >> So if you recognize somebody who's on the wall of shame and they come back in, what do you do? Um, what I would do would be, >> what is the score policy at 7441 Park Lane Road, Shell Gas Station in 2023?

[00:04:41]What is the policy if somebody who's on the wall chain comes back in the store?

[00:04:45]>> Um, I would ask him to uh to leave.

[00:04:53]>> Okay. Now, uh you see all the people on the wall of shame in 2023?

[00:04:57]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:04:58]>> Okay. How many of those people did you chase?

[00:05:01]>> Did I chase?

[00:05:02]>> Yeah, >> I none of them.

[00:05:04]>> Okay. Uh, >> you don't remember chasing any of those people that sold?

[00:05:08]>> I did not chase anyone.

[00:05:10]>> Okay. Uh, I see a number of other pictures here of people. Do you see the lotto tickets right there? And I don't know, Stephanie, can you zoom in on this?

[00:05:22]What's that guy? What's he doing there?

[00:05:24]right there up under the monitor with the cash register.

[00:05:30]>> Um, probably the same thing as the the same as the other pictures.

[00:05:35]>> Okay, Stephanie, can you zoom out, please?

[00:05:40]Scroll over to the You see the clock on the wall there?

[00:05:47]Zoom in up under that camera.

[00:05:50]You see that, Andy? Who What are these people?

[00:05:53]Uh, it' be the same thing.

[00:05:56]>> What? What's the same thing >> as the the other pictures?

[00:06:00]>> Okay. So, you agree with me that you have a sophisticated surveillance system in there that is capable of generating high quality pictures of people you suspect of committing a crime. Correct.

[00:06:13]>> You want me to >> to me it wouldn't be the highest it wouldn't be high quality, but it's enough to see their face.

[00:06:22]You don't consider these videos we've been watching high quality.

[00:06:27]>> Um, they can be higher.

[00:06:30]>> Okay. Well, what? Maybe not movie quality, >> but you can see their face.

[00:06:35]>> Okay.

[00:06:36]And there's nothing to stop you guys from taking these pictures and sending them into law enforcement.

[00:06:44]Correct. There's nothing to stop you from doing that, is there?

[00:06:46]>> No, sir.

[00:06:47]>> Okay. And, uh, you certainly know how to use 911, right? Yes, sir.

[00:06:52]>> Okay. And um you've done in the past, correct?

[00:06:55]>> I have not.

[00:06:58]>> I could have sworn when your lawyer was up here, you were talking about a 911 call. I could have sworn I heard your voice on a 911 call. Did I imagine that?

[00:07:07]>> I thought you meant before that.

[00:07:09]>> You've used 911 before.

[00:07:11]>> Yes, sir.

[00:07:11]>> And you use 911 to get law enforcement involved. Correct.

[00:07:14]>> Yes, sir.

[00:07:15]>> And you use 911 when you see something illegal going on. Correct.

[00:07:19]Uh, yes sir.

[00:07:21]>> Okay. And you use 911 to get law enforcement who's paid to do their job to come help, correct?

[00:07:28]>> Yes, sir.

[00:07:28]>> Okay. So, you know how to use it?

[00:07:30]>> Yes, sir.

[00:07:31]>> How do you use 911?

[00:07:33]>> You dial 911.

[00:07:34]>> Very easy, right?

[00:07:35]>> Yes, sir.

[00:07:36]>> Okay. And you have a phone, correct?

[00:07:37]>> Yes, sir.

[00:07:38]>> All right. Now, in 2023, you were working behind the cash register, correct?

[00:07:43]>> Yes, sir.

[00:07:44]>> And cash register is raised up a little bit higher than the rest of the floor, correct? Yes, sir.

[00:07:49]>> You got a pretty good view of the fort and the surroundings, correct?

[00:07:52]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:07:54]>> State 68, please.

[00:08:00]>> Who is that uh fell right there with a hat on backwards in the North Face pullover?

[00:08:05]>> It's me.

[00:08:06]>> Okay. And uh what are you looking at?

[00:08:09]>> Uh the young man.

[00:08:11]>> Okay.

[00:08:12]Uh, I'm just looking to you see right over there to your left, there's another picture of some other people on the uh, isn't that some more people right there that you got pictures of? Right.

[00:08:31]>> I'm even looking right here. Andy, you see these people here? What did they do?

[00:08:35]Or did they stop left or why would you have a picture of some people back here?

[00:08:39]>> I'm not sure.

[00:08:40]>> Okay. Okay. But you have pictures of customers behind the counter, too.

[00:08:43]>> Uh, we did.

[00:08:45]>> Okay. And Andy, look right here. There's some more people right here that you got pictures of, >> right?

[00:08:52]>> Yes, sir.

[00:08:53]>> Tell me about this gadget right here.

[00:08:55]This tablet to your right. What is that?

[00:08:58]>> It's um it shows if a person who is in the system.

[00:09:06]>> What? Tell me about a person in the system.

[00:09:09]So, they need to be entered.

[00:09:14]>> Explain what you're talk what you're talking about. Use your words.

[00:09:17]>> Okay. Um, so all I know is that their picture needs to be entered into it.

[00:09:22]>> Whose picture?

[00:09:24]>> A anyone. It can be.

[00:09:27]>> If I just went and pumped gas there, you put my face in the system.

[00:09:30]>> No, sir.

[00:09:31]>> Whose face do you put in the system?

[00:09:33]>> Uh, there are employees. My face is in there. There are shoplifterss.

[00:09:39]>> Okay, tell me more about that. Tell me more about the shoplifters that you enter into your system and then you you have access to them from that tablet.

[00:09:47]Tell me how that works.

[00:09:48]>> Um, so if they are in the system, they uh and they come into the store, >> right?

[00:09:54]>> Then they will pop up on that tablet.

[00:09:59]>> Really?

[00:09:59]>> Yes, sir.

[00:10:01]>> Okay. So you you have facial recognition technology at 7441 Parkland, the Shell station your family owns, correct?

[00:10:10]>> Yes, sir.

[00:10:10]>> And that is rather sophisticated equipment, correct?

[00:10:13]>> Oh, yes, sir.

[00:10:14]>> Okay. So, any of these people who have shoplifted in the past, committed the crime of shoplifting, if you review your camera, go back and you realize the snicker bar is gone cuz it's missing from inventory, right? You can go back and review the camera and you can say, "Aha, this person stole the Snickers, right?"

[00:10:35]>> You could. Yes, sir.

[00:10:36]>> You could do that. How many different camera angles you got in that store? Do you even know?

[00:10:39]>> I wouldn't know.

[00:10:40]>> When you You would agree with me. That's a lot.

[00:10:43]>> All right. Yes, sir.

[00:10:44]>> Over 20. Correct.

[00:10:49]>> Yes, sir.

[00:10:49]>> Okay. So, you can get multiple different angles of the person's face, correct?

[00:10:53]>> Uh, yes, sir. Most likely you can see what kind of shoes they're wearing.

[00:10:57]>> Yes, sir.

[00:10:58]>> You could probably identify what kind of shorts or pants or dress they had on.

[00:11:02]Correct.

[00:11:02]>> Yes, sir.

[00:11:03]>> You could identify the top they had on.

[00:11:05]Correct.

[00:11:05]>> Yes, sir.

[00:11:06]>> And then you can even zoom in to like look at different graphics on the shirt or whatever they have. Correct.

[00:11:11]>> Yes, sir.

[00:11:11]>> You could look for different identifying characteristics of the clothing they're wearing.

[00:11:15]>> Yes, sir.

[00:11:16]>> You could zoom in on their face.

[00:11:17]Correct.

[00:11:18]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:11:18]>> And then you could put it in the facial recognition technology. Correct.

[00:11:22]>> Yes, sir. And then if they ever came back in, you would get an alert, correct?

[00:11:26]>> Yes, sir.

[00:11:26]>> Okay.

[00:11:28]>> You could do all these things with the technology they had at 7441 Park Lane, could you not?

[00:11:34]>> Uh, you could.

[00:11:36]>> Okay.

[00:11:38]Now, uh, you have been trained, you have gone to school, um, and been trained and your father has to identify shoplifters, have you not?

[00:11:52]trained to identify them?

[00:11:53]>> Yeah.

[00:11:54]>> Uh I had not I was not trained.

[00:11:57]>> You weren't?

[00:11:59]>> No sir.

[00:11:59]>> But you know how to identify one correct?

[00:12:02]>> Uh if they are acting weird to me. That is >> what is acting weird to you.

[00:12:10]>> If they keep looking up at me.

[00:12:14]>> Okay. um they keep uh walking around the store wandering around and uh if they keep, you know, checking the pocket or something.

[00:12:25]All those combined.

[00:12:27]>> I'm even thinking about times I've gone into a store and left my wallet in the car, walk around for a minute, and then I walk out. Would you put me in your um database if I did that?

[00:12:40]>> Uh I would not. Would you consider me weird?

[00:12:44]>> No, sir.

[00:12:46]>> What if I have my hands in my pockets?

[00:12:48]I'm dressed like I am now. And I walked around and looked around and I couldn't find what I was looking for. So then I just walked out. Did you tell me my pockets?

[00:12:58]>> Um, no, sir.

[00:13:02]>> Why?

[00:13:03]>> You didn't touch anything.

[00:13:05]>> Okay. But I have my hands in my pockets.

[00:13:07]I'm looking up at you. I'm looking down.

[00:13:10]Let's say I did. Let's say I took some waters out and I put them back.

[00:13:14]Would you chase me?

[00:13:15]>> Uh would it would depend if uh I could see what you were doing. If I couldn't see, then I wouldn't know what you were doing.

[00:13:25]>> You could see what Cyrus was doing, could you not?

[00:13:27]>> Not completely. No, sir.

[00:13:29]>> So, you weren't sure?

[00:13:32]You weren't sure.

[00:13:34]>> Uh I believed he had pocketed something.

[00:13:39]>> You believed he had? Yes, sir.

[00:13:41]>> Okay. Why did you believe that?

[00:13:43]>> Because of the things that happened in the store.

[00:13:45]>> Okay.

[00:13:47]>> So, he had his hands in his pockets.

[00:13:49]>> Yes, sir.

[00:13:50]>> Okay.

[00:13:52]Testified. You watched him when he walked in.

[00:13:55]>> Uh, I saw him walk in.

[00:13:57]>> Yeah. So, he put his backpack down.

[00:13:59]>> Yes, sir.

[00:13:59]>> Correct. And then, um, the defense offered defense six and you said, "Yeah, that's how he looked when he came in."

[00:14:06]>> Yes, sir.

[00:14:07]>> Okay.

[00:14:08]If he had a bulge in his pocket when he came in, why would he have a bulge in his pocket when he left? This is your exhibit.

[00:14:15]>> Well, I was mainly just seeing him put the backpack on the >> under direct. You told the lawyer that this is how he looked and this is what you saw when he came in the store.

[00:14:29]>> Uh, yes.

[00:14:30]>> He clearly has a bulge in his pocket when he comes in the store. Why would he have a bulge in his pocket when he left the store?

[00:14:36]I was not focused on the bulge when he came in.

[00:14:42]>> You just testified that this is what he looked like and this is what his pocket looked like when he came in.

[00:14:48]>> Uh looking at the picture. Yes, sir.

[00:14:51]>> You identified this as being him, how he looked when he came in.

[00:14:56]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:14:58]>> Okay.

[00:14:59]If I ask you again, if he had a bulge in his pocket when he came in, why would you harass him and say he's got a bulge in his pocket when he left? You see what I'm saying?

[00:15:08]>> I did not notice the bulge when he came in that day.

[00:15:15]>> Okay.

[00:15:18]Then you talked about Yeah, this is the bulge I saw that he had in his pocket. This is your exhibit that you just introduced through the lawyer.

[00:15:28]This is >> in the picture I see.

[00:15:30]>> In the picture I see the bulge.

[00:15:32]>> Okay.

[00:15:33]>> You see any water bottles in this pocket?

[00:15:35]>> Uh I cannot see in the pocket.

[00:15:38]>> Why you identified something black in a bulge in his pocket? See that?

[00:15:43]>> I I did.

[00:15:46]>> But the reason this is an evidence is cuz you identified it through your lawyer.

[00:15:50]>> You don't recognize this from 10 minutes ago.

[00:15:52]>> I mean I see like the shadow of the pocket. Yes, sir. Do you see a water bottle in his pocket?

[00:15:59]>> I cannot see into his pocket.

[00:16:00]>> What do you see in his pocket there?

[00:16:03]>> I >> All right.

[00:16:04]>> Sorry.

[00:16:04]>> Can we do There's clearly something black in his pocket in the picture. States number five.

[00:16:25]I'm all disappointed that Do you not see something black in his pocket?

[00:16:29]>> To me, I just thought that was just the shadow of a pocket.

[00:16:32]>> Does it look like a water bottle to you?

[00:16:35]It >> does not.

[00:16:36]>> Okay. All right. With all the surveillance systems they have at 7441 Parkland and with all the technology and facial recognition. Okay.

[00:16:50]Couldn't we have hung this 14year-old boy's picture up on the wall of shame?

[00:17:04]>> Couldn't we have done that?

[00:17:05]>> Well, you could have put his picture >> Yeah. on the wall of shame with all those other people, right?

[00:17:11]>> Couldn't we have done that?

[00:17:12]>> We You could have >> What would have stopped him from doing >> nothing?

[00:17:18]>> Nothing.

[00:17:20]>> Okay.

[00:17:21]Is there anything that would have stopped us from going back and printing all these pictures up of the boy with the white Air Force Ones, the black Nike joggers, the red child's play hoodie?

[00:17:37]He never covered his face, did he?

[00:17:40]>> He did not.

[00:17:40]>> He never put the hoodie on, did he?

[00:17:42]>> He did not.

[00:17:43]>> Uh, we've got hundreds of steel shots we could provide to law enforcement. Could we not? Uh, could you you could >> you could Is there anything that stops you guys from doing that?

[00:17:54]>> No, sir.

[00:17:55]>> Okay. And how long does it take to call 911? How I mean, how many seconds does it take, you think, for you to hit three buttons on your cell phone?

[00:18:03]>> Um, a second.

[00:18:07]>> One second.

[00:18:10]>> Is there anything that stopped you on that day from using one second of your time to dial 911?

[00:18:17]Uh, >> nothing stopped me.

[00:18:21]>> No. And you know how to use 911 cuz you've used it before, correct?

[00:18:25]>> Yes, sir.

[00:18:25]>> You used it on that day, correct?

[00:18:27]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:18:27]>> Nothing stopped you from using it?

[00:18:29]>> Uh, no, sir.

[00:18:31]>> And you certainly have a cell phone that's capable of connecting to 911, correct?

[00:18:35]>> Yes, sir.

[00:18:35]>> Okay.

[00:18:37]But we didn't do any of that on this particular day, did we?

[00:18:41]>> Um, not until after.

[00:18:44]>> Yeah, it's a little late after, right?

[00:18:48]Um, >> Andy, think about it. I'm asking you.

[00:18:57]Could we not? If we suspect this 14year-old, how many would have did you think he took?

[00:19:05]>> I'm not sure.

[00:19:06]>> How many do you think he took?

[00:19:08]>> Maybe just one.

[00:19:09]>> One. How much in the year 2023 does a bottle of water cost at 7441 Parkland Road in Richland County at the Shell Gas Station operated by the Child Family?

[00:19:21]How much does one bottle of water cost?

[00:19:23]>> I'm not sure.

[00:19:26]>> You don't remember how much they cost?

[00:19:28]You work the cash register, right?

[00:19:30]>> Uh I did. Okay.

[00:19:31]>> 98 cents sound about right?

[00:19:34]Yes, sir.

[00:19:34]>> Let's just round it up to a dollar. A dollar sound right?

[00:19:37]>> Yes, sir.

[00:20:15]think you took $1 worth of merchandise from your store?

[00:20:20]>> I did think that. Yes, sir.

[00:20:21]>> And you were certainly >> uh I believed he had taken it. Yes, sir.

[00:20:27]>> You were strongly believed enough where you uh left your account. You left the cash register and ran after it. Correct.

[00:20:34]Yes, sir.

[00:20:35]>> He yelled at you. Soft spoke of the day, right?

[00:20:38]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:20:40]>> You weren't softspoken on that particular day, either.

[00:20:43]>> Well, I I just called out to him.

[00:20:46]>> Okay. You used your voice, right? You >> I'm >> It's not difficult to hear your voice in those videos, is it?

[00:20:53]>> Uh, no, sir.

[00:20:54]>> Okay. Um, your dad, he ran with you, correct?

[00:21:00]>> Uh, he was behind me. He ran with you, correct?

[00:21:05]>> I would not I I didn't know what he was doing behind me.

[00:21:08]>> He ran with you, correct?

[00:21:10]>> You know, I asked the answer.

[00:21:13]>> He ran with you. Correct.

[00:21:17]>> Uh watching the video, I saw him behind running behind me.

[00:21:20]>> He ran with you. Correct.

[00:21:22]>> He ran as he doesn't like the answer.

[00:21:29]>> Sorry.

[00:21:30]>> Go ahead. He ran with you, correct?

[00:21:33]>> Uh, yes, sir. Watching the video, I saw him running behind me.

[00:21:36]>> Okay. And you taught to obey your father, correct?

[00:21:43]>> Uh, yes sir.

[00:21:46]>> Do you understand my question?

[00:21:48]>> As in just >> Were you taught to obey your father?

[00:21:53]>> Uh, yes sir.

[00:21:54]>> You were not taught to disobey your father, were you?

[00:21:57]>> Uh, no sir.

[00:21:58]>> Okay. So when he yelled to you, "Andy, stop. Do not do this." You listened to him, didn't you?

[00:22:04]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:22:06]>> Huh?

[00:22:07]>> Yes, sir.

[00:22:07]>> So when he yelled that that day, you stopped, didn't you?

[00:22:12]>> When?

[00:22:17]May 28th, 2023.

[00:22:21]That's That's what we're talking about here today. Yes, sir.

[00:22:24]>> Remember May 28th of 2023?

[00:22:25]>> Yes, sir. You remember when y'all ran out the door after that 14-year-old boy?

[00:22:30]>> I I walked out the door.

[00:22:32]>> Okay. We'll watch a video here in a second. But you remember when you exited the store with your father after the 14-year-old boy?

[00:22:39]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:22:40]>> Okay. And you remember right then when your dad said, "Stop.

[00:22:44]Stop. Andy, let's stop right here." You remember when he said that?

[00:22:47]>> No, sir.

[00:22:48]>> Cuz he didn't, right?

[00:22:49]>> He did not.

[00:22:50]>> He didn't say that.

[00:22:51]>> No, sir.

[00:22:51]>> And if he had, you would have obeyed him cuz you obey your father, right? I would have stopped.

[00:22:58]>> But you guys continued running along up spring to correct.

[00:23:04]>> Um, >> well, so I saw him.

[00:23:08]>> Wait, wait. Okay. Well, if you need to explain the question, I was just asking you continue to run up spring towards >> after he started running. Yes, I ran after.

[00:23:19]>> When did he start running? Um, so I had gone to the count the corner of the store >> and I hear my dad come up behind me and call out, "Hey, >> right."

[00:23:31]>> And then I see him, the young man, he turned and then turned back around immediately and started sprinting down.

[00:23:38]>> Okay.

[00:23:38]>> And so that's when I started to run.

[00:23:41]>> Okay. So that that was after y'all went around the corner.

[00:23:45]>> Let's see. I kind of slow down at the corner. Just >> Stephanie, can I have stage 16? The clip or clip 16.

[00:24:26]This is the young man that you were talking about, correct? The red shirt.

[00:24:30]>> Yes, sir.

[00:24:30]>> Okay.

[00:24:37]>> That's you watching him, correct?

[00:24:39]>> Oh, yes, sir. There's your father already making his way towards the front door. Correct.

[00:24:45]>> Yes, sir.

[00:24:48]>> Okay. And your mother left too, correct?

[00:24:52]>> Uh in the video. Yes, sir.

[00:24:56]>> Okay. Who is manning the cash register right there?

[00:25:00]>> No one.

[00:25:01]>> All right. Who's this gentleman?

[00:25:03]>> A customer.

[00:25:04]>> Okay. Uh, is it common for the whole child family to leave their gas station and their customers inside the store?

[00:25:13]>> Well, I'm not I wasn't completely sure what my parents were doing, but I exited the store.

[00:25:19]>> Everyone left over $1 of water. Correct.

[00:25:25]>> I I I left because I thought you stole something.

[00:25:28]>> Okay. And your dad, as you saw, was right on your heels, right?

[00:25:33]We're running >> in the video.

[00:25:36]>> Your is your monitor working right now?

[00:25:37]Yes, sir.

[00:25:38]>> Okay.

[00:25:39]>> All right. Press play.

[00:26:17]Okay. You guys are right together, are you not?

[00:26:20]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:26:23]>> I see. I I see that. Yes, sir.

[00:26:25]>> Yes. Is that yes or no?

[00:26:27]>> Yes. Yes, sir.

[00:26:28]>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:26:30]Uh Stephanie, can I have clip 20 from slide four and tell me uh before we watch this, tell me what you said you just walked out of the gas station. Is that what you you said earlier?

[00:26:41]>> Yes, sir. I walked out.

[00:26:42]>> You just walked >> and then I walked to to the count corner.

[00:26:45]>> All right. How would you describe what Cyrus Carmarmac did when he walked out?

[00:26:49]Was he walking or was he running? When he when he left the gas station >> out the door, he was walking >> rather casually, was he not? Uh, >> you could say that.

[00:27:01]>> Okay. Was he looking over your shoulder or anything like that or?

[00:27:03]>> No, sir.

[00:27:04]>> Just kind of casually left the store.

[00:27:06]>> Yes, sir.

[00:27:07]>> And you two just bust out, correct?

[00:27:11]>> Uh, I I was just walking out then.

[00:27:14]>> You were walking out?

[00:27:15]>> Yes, sir.

[00:27:15]>> Okay. Press play, Stephanie, please.

[00:27:31]That's walking to you?

[00:27:34]>> Yes, sir.

[00:27:35]>> That's walking >> for me? Yes, sir.

[00:27:37]>> You typically walk that fast?

[00:27:39]>> Okay. So, when you get off the stand, you're going to walk that fast to your seat?

[00:27:43]>> Uh, it depends on what I was doing.

[00:27:45]>> Okay. What were you doing there?

[00:27:47]>> I guess it would be a a brisker walk, but I wasn't running out the store.

[00:27:52]When did you start running?

[00:27:54]>> After he ran.

[00:27:55]>> Why is there anything wrong with him running?

[00:27:59]>> Uh, well, I ran because I I thought he had stolen something and I wanted to see where he was going.

[00:28:06]>> Okay. How far were you going to chase him, do you think?

[00:28:12]>> I'm not sure.

[00:28:13]>> Just >> going to see where he was going.

[00:28:16]>> A mile. What if he What if he had run a mile? Would you have kept chasing him with your dad? Um, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what I was doing.

[00:28:26]>> I'm just You don't know at what point you stop chasing a 14-year-old?

[00:28:31]>> I don't know when I would stop.

[00:28:34]>> Um, let me see state or sorry, clip 21, states four, please.

[00:28:41]You remember when his shoe fell off as he was running? Remember that?

[00:28:44]>> I did not see that.

[00:28:46]>> Okay.

[00:28:46]>> You didn't see him running with one sock and one shoe?

[00:28:49]>> No, sir. I didn't notice that.

[00:29:11]Okay.

[00:29:13]Is that what you're describing? and he was walking around the corner and then y'all start yelling at him and briskly walking towards him and then he takes off running.

[00:29:20]>> Uh just my I just hear my dad call out hey to him.

[00:29:26]>> That's what made him start running when y'all were back behind briskly walking towards him. That's what made him start running.

[00:29:32]>> Um I I I kind of just slow down to a stop at the corner. I wasn't walking at him.

[00:29:38]>> You slow down to Okay, let me go back.

[00:29:40]Let's watch it again cuz I didn't see that. Go to clip 20 of states four and let's watch Andy stop as he goes to the corner.

[00:30:10]>> All right. When did you stop? right there. I didn't see it. I missed it.

[00:30:13]>> I I slowed down >> at the corner.

[00:30:16]>> Okay. And then he started running. And every time you see somebody run, you you feel compelled to run after him, right?

[00:30:24]>> Uh I did. I Well, I believe he had stolen something. So, I ran to go see where he was going.

[00:30:32]>> Okay. U let me have clip 24 of States for Stephanie.

[00:30:48]And now what do you call? Y'all are really briskly walking there, are you not? That's a really brisk walk there.

[00:30:54]>> Well, he he's running off screen. So that's when I started running after he started.

[00:30:59]>> Okay. You're running now?

[00:31:00]>> Yes, sir.

[00:31:01]>> That's running.

[00:31:02]>> You're no longer briskly walking. You're running now, right?

[00:31:05]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:31:06]>> And what's your dad doing in that video?

[00:31:08]In the video, he's also running.

[00:31:09]>> Okay. And is he saying, "Andy, let's stop. Let's do not leave the parking lot. Let's stop right here."

[00:31:15]>> Uh, I did not hear that.

[00:31:17]>> Okay. He didn't say that.

[00:31:18]>> No, sir.

[00:31:19]>> Okay. And now the boy lost his shoe. Uh, you know, your mother went and picked it up from the scene, right?

[00:31:25]>> Uh, I learned that afterwards. Yes.

[00:31:28]>> And he's running so hard he comes out of his shoe. You know that now, right?

[00:31:32]>> Yes, sir.

[00:31:33]>> Okay. You don't dispute that, do you?

[00:31:35]>> No, sir.

[00:31:35]>> We saw the video, right?

[00:31:36]>> Yes, sir. And he's running so hard his cell phones fall out of his pockets.

[00:31:41]>> Correct.

[00:31:42]>> He throws them out.

[00:31:43]>> Okay. Well, you said before they fell out, did you not?

[00:31:47]>> I know you're saying he threw them out today. Have you ever thrown cell phones on the side of the road?

[00:31:52]>> I never.

[00:31:53]>> Okay. And he didn't either, did he?

[00:31:55]>> No, he threw them. If I showed you a video from your store the day of where you said they fell out of his pockets, would you still deny that?

[00:32:07]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:32:08]>> Okay, your honor, you need to um refresh the memory of the video.

[00:32:14]Let me ask first if this will help refresh your memory.

[00:32:21]Read this and tell me if you deny it you said any of those things. Don't say it out loud. Just read it. See if you refresh your memory.

[00:32:40]>> Okay.

[00:32:41]>> Do you deny saying that?

[00:32:42]>> I do not deny saying that.

[00:32:44]>> Okay. So, you don't disagree that the day of um you said these things flew off of him. You never said anything about him throwing anything. Um, in that moment, at that moment, yes, sir, I did say that.

[00:32:59]>> And this was the day of.

[00:33:01]>> Yes, sir.

[00:33:02]>> Because why would anybody throw their cell phones out? Does that make any sense to you?

[00:33:06]>> I would not know.

[00:33:07]>> No, because they didn't he didn't throw them. They flew off of him cuz he was running so hard.

[00:33:12]>> No, sir. I saw him throw it to the side.

[00:33:15]>> What did you Do you want me to read what you said? Would that help?

[00:33:19]>> Well, >> or would you want me to play the video for you? Would that help? I'm just telling you what I saw.

[00:33:25]>> Okay. I'm asking you what you said on the day it happened.

[00:33:29]>> Okay.

[00:33:29]>> You never said that he threw him. You said >> he dropped it.

[00:33:34]>> I did say things flew off of him.

[00:33:36]Correct.

[00:33:37]>> You said it went flew like he threw it.

[00:33:42]That is what I meant.

[00:33:43]>> That's what you meant. Okay.

[00:33:44]>> Yes, sir.

[00:33:46]>> He threw his shoe off, too, didn't he?

[00:33:48]>> Uh, I did not see that myself.

[00:33:53]Okay. So, at the time you're saying uh he dropped his phone, two things flew off at you.

[00:34:02]>> You don't disagree with that?

[00:34:04]>> Uh, I did say that.

[00:34:06]>> Okay. All right.

[00:34:09]And matter of fact, you chased him and you stopped and looked at him, >> right?

[00:34:17]>> At what point? Oh, at what he threw, you mean? All right, listen. I'm only going to be talking to you about May 28th of 2023. So, if you ask when, I'm talking about this date when 14year-old Cyrus Felton died. So, is that clear?

[00:34:36]>> Yes, sir.

[00:34:36]>> Okay. When you're chasing him, his shoe comes off, two cell phones come off of him. You stop and look at him, do you not?

[00:34:43]>> Um, so I slow down to for like a second and I glance back. I don't see a phone, a water bottle. All I see is trash. And so I turn back around and continue to follow him.

[00:34:58]>> All right. Would it surprise you to know that you had previously said that you stopped and looked and noticed there were two cell phones on the ground?

[00:35:08]>> Uh, you said that.

[00:35:10]>> Do you disagree that you said that?

[00:35:12]>> I don't remember saying that.

[00:35:13]>> Would it help you if I refresh your memory?

[00:35:15]>> Uh, yes sir.

[00:35:29]You stopped to look at what he had dropped. Correct.

[00:35:33]>> Try to see what he had thrown yesterday.

[00:35:35]>> Okay. You You do agree with me then. And you stop to look.

[00:35:39]>> Well, it it wasn't like a full stop.

[00:35:41]>> What was it?

[00:35:42]>> I slowed down. it. So in the video you see me full sprinting >> and so I slow down.

[00:35:50]>> Okay.

[00:35:50]>> To see >> and I don't see anything. So I turn back around and keep going.

[00:35:53]>> You didn't see the white shoe right there?

[00:35:55]>> No sir.

[00:35:56]>> Or was it selfish?

[00:35:57]>> No sir.

[00:35:58]>> One was white though, right?

[00:36:01]>> The phone.

[00:36:02]>> Yeah.

[00:36:03]>> Uh I'm not sure.

[00:36:06]>> You remember your mother collecting them and bringing them into the gas station that night?

[00:36:10]>> Um I remember her saying that. Yes, sir.

[00:36:13]Okay.

[00:36:15]Now, whenever he go whenever Cyrus goes uh Stephanie, let me have 17.

[00:36:41]You recognize this to be 7441 Parkland Road?

[00:36:45]>> Yes, sir.

[00:36:45]>> Okay. And under this approximately here is where the entrance of the store is.

[00:36:51]Correct.

[00:36:52]>> Yes, sir.

[00:36:53]>> Okay. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when Cyrus leaves, he rounds this corner and goes this direction. Correct.

[00:37:01]>> Yes, sir.

[00:37:01]>> Okay. As you guys come around the corner at a pace with your dad yelling, >> he takes off sprinting, does he not?

[00:37:11]Uh my dad calls out to him, "Hey, that's it." And >> takes off sprint, correct?

[00:37:17]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:37:18]>> Okay. Are you able to see these two um posts right here? The two white posts from the black car?

[00:37:23]>> Yes, sir.

[00:37:24]>> Okay. Cyrus ran around those and took this cut through, correct?

[00:37:28]>> Yes, sir.

[00:37:30]>> I'm sorry.

[00:37:30]>> Yes, sir.

[00:37:31]>> Okay. But you and your father took this uh direction.

[00:37:39]>> Yes, sir.

[00:37:39]>> Right. Yes, sir.

[00:37:41]>> Okay. His shoe came off somewhere in this vicinity. Correct.

[00:37:45]>> I do not believe so.

[00:37:48]>> I think it was earlier.

[00:37:50]>> Okay.

[00:37:50]>> Judging off the video.

[00:37:51]>> Somewhere here then.

[00:37:53]>> Um maybe a bit further back.

[00:37:56]>> Somewhere here.

[00:37:57]>> Yes, sir.

[00:37:58]>> Okay. Cell phones were found in this general area or where did you stop to look where he had >> is still in the parking lot.

[00:38:06]>> I'm sorry.

[00:38:06]>> Is still in the parking lot.

[00:38:08]>> The cell phones?

[00:38:08]>> Yes, sir. Okay.

[00:38:10]>> When I saw him throw them is up like before that sand uh path.

[00:38:18]>> All right. Somewhere right here.

[00:38:20]>> Yes, sir.

[00:38:21]>> Cyrus takes the path. Correct.

[00:38:23]>> Yes, sir.

[00:38:24]>> And does he immediately cross over Spring Tree?

[00:38:27]>> Uh he's kind of running a diagonal.

[00:38:30]>> All right. How about this?

[00:38:32]>> Straight to the uh scene.

[00:38:34]>> Is that it?

[00:38:35]>> Straight to where the scene was.

[00:38:36]>> So, he's running in the middle of the road.

[00:38:38]Yes, sir.

[00:38:39]>> Okay. And that is a fairly heavily traveled road, correct?

[00:38:45]>> Yes, sir.

[00:38:46]>> Cars pretty fast up and down that road, correct?

[00:38:51]>> I'm not sure.

[00:38:52]>> You've never noticed people speeding up and down that road?

[00:38:54]>> No, sir.

[00:38:56]>> All right. Uh, but it is heavily traveled, right?

[00:38:59]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:39:02]Cyrus, you and your father run directly across with no disregard for cars coming or going. Did you not?

[00:39:09]>> Uh, I did not see any cars.

[00:39:11]>> You didn't You didn't even notice the white Honda that had to slam on it brakes to keep from hitting you guys.

[00:39:17]>> I did not notice. No, sir.

[00:39:18]>> You didn't?

[00:39:19]>> No, sir.

[00:39:20]>> Okay. Uh, because you were focused on chasing the 14-year-old. Is that correct?

[00:39:25]>> I was focused on seeing where he was going.

[00:39:27]>> Okay.

[00:39:29]Springtree Road is a very straight road.

[00:39:31]Correct.

[00:39:32]>> Yes, sir. Um can see a great distance down this road. Correct. States 15th Street.

[00:39:39]>> No, sir.

[00:39:42]>> 15.

[00:39:44]All right. Spring Tree is a straight road. Correct.

[00:39:48]>> It is straight.

[00:39:49]>> Okay. And it dead ends eventually.

[00:39:51]Correct.

[00:39:52]>> Yes, sir.

[00:39:53]>> What are these apartments right here?

[00:39:56]>> I'm not sure.

[00:39:57]>> All right. What are these apartments right here?

[00:40:00]>> I'm not sure.

[00:40:01]>> Are there any more apartment complex beside these two?

[00:40:04]>> Uh, I'm not sure.

[00:40:08]>> But it dead ends.

[00:40:09]>> Yes, sir.

[00:40:11]>> All right. So, what's the purpose of sprinting after Cyrus if you merely wanted to find his direction of travel?

[00:40:19]Don't we already know the direction of travel without even leaving the property? Well, it is a dead end for uh a car, but not for someone on foot.

[00:40:29]>> What does that mean?

[00:40:30]>> You can go anywhere.

[00:40:31]>> Where can you go?

[00:40:33]>> Anywhere.

[00:40:35]>> Where could he go besides the apartments? I don't understand.

[00:40:40]>> You could you could go through it. I don't >> All right. Where can anybody go besides those apartments? There's There's only two apartment complexes to go to before you hit the dead end, right? Well, you could walk another direction, not on the road.

[00:40:57]>> Explain that. I don't understand.

[00:41:00]>> Are you trying to say you could go through the woods?

[00:41:02]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:41:03]>> Okay. So, were you prepared to chase him through the woods?

[00:41:06]>> Um, um, I don't know.

[00:41:11]>> I just Do Do you know like at what point your dad and you stop or do you just chase him for eternity?

[00:41:19]>> I I don't know. I was just the only thing I was thinking was see where he was going.

[00:41:24]>> Yeah. And get that bottle of water. Got to get that bottle of water, right?

[00:41:28]>> No, sir.

[00:41:29]>> Okay. Don't we know which direction he went? I mean, if the cops show up and we know how to call 911. We've established that. You say, "Officers, this is the guy you're looking for.

[00:41:44]This is the guy you're looking for." And he went straight up Spring Tree. Not too many places he can go. He can take a right or a left.

[00:41:53]Oh, by the way, we got his backpack.

[00:41:57]We got his shoe. We got two cell phones.

[00:42:01]Shouldn't be too hard for you guys, >> right?

[00:42:07]>> Well, I did not see the phone. I did not see a shoe.

[00:42:11]>> But you know, you are a computer information systems graduate or whatever you are. You know intimately about computers and you know about the capabilities of your surveillance system, do you not?

[00:42:24]>> I know that we had his picture.

[00:42:26]>> And you know about the wall of shame, do you not?

[00:42:28]>> Yes, sir.

[00:42:29]>> And you know how to call 911, do you not?

[00:42:31]>> I do.

[00:42:32]>> So why do we check I You want to find his direction. I know that's what is that your explanation? You want to find direction of travel?

[00:42:38]>> Yes, sir.

[00:42:41]>> We got videos that showed his direction of travel.

[00:42:44]>> You say he didn't go to Park Lane. He went down Spring Tree.

[00:42:49]You can tell officers just direction travel, right? You never even have to leave the property, do you?

[00:42:54]>> You could I I I could get more details more detailed on where he went because the the even though the road is straight >> Uh-huh.

[00:43:04]>> It goes up a little bit so you can't actually see down the road. There's a little hump.

[00:43:09]>> It's your testimony that you and your father had to chase up there to see specifically where he went so we can get that dollar bottle of water. Is that your testimony?

[00:43:18]>> Well, I was go I was running to just see where he was going.

[00:43:22]>> Why do you have to run on that straight road? The boy has one shoe on.

[00:43:27]>> I mean, can't you do that brisk walk you like to do?

[00:43:30]>> Well, I was not thinking that at the >> What were you thinking?

[00:43:36]>> To see where he was going.

[00:43:39]>> I'm going to ask you I'm going to leave it behind after this. But when you stand 20, please >> 20.

[00:43:49]>> 20. Yes, ma'am.

[00:43:52]When you stand right here, >> you recognize this to be the drive of your gas station?

[00:43:58]>> Yes, sir.

[00:43:59]>> You can see right up the road, right?

[00:44:03]>> Um, at my height, I would not be able to see all the way down. Let me ask you something. Do you have >> I see you're wearing glasses. Do you have issues with your vision?

[00:44:16]>> Um just a little bit.

[00:44:17]>> Okay. And and do you have trouble um perceiving things even with glasses?

[00:44:24]>> Uh no sir.

[00:44:26]>> You don't?

[00:44:27]>> No sir.

[00:44:28]>> So with your glasses you have good eyesight?

[00:44:30]>> Yes sir.

[00:44:31]>> Okay.

[00:44:33]>> You see this car right here Andy?

[00:44:35]>> Yes sir.

[00:44:36]>> What what what apartment complex are they with? Um that first one.

[00:44:41]>> Okay.

[00:44:41]>> And then how many more up the road?

[00:44:44]>> I'm not sure.

[00:44:45]>> All right. Well, it dead ends, right?

[00:44:47]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:44:48]>> So, if you're standing right there, you can see him take a left in that apartment complex, right?

[00:44:53]>> Yes, sir.

[00:44:54]>> Okay. And if he keeps going, you know there's a dead end, right?

[00:44:59]>> Yes, sir.

[00:45:00]>> And you know there's only that other apartment complex on the right up there.

[00:45:04]>> Uh yes, sir. So, if you stand right there, stay in your parking lot of your store at 7441 Park Lane Road, you can go ahead and roll out that first apartment on the left if you pass, right?

[00:45:17]>> I could. Yes, sir.

[00:45:18]>> Okay. But if he turns in there, you can say officers, he went up there, took a left, right?

[00:45:23]>> Yes, sir.

[00:45:24]>> And by the way, we got his face, too, right?

[00:45:26]>> Okay.

[00:45:26]>> And by the way, we got his cell phone and shoe, right?

[00:45:29]>> Yes, sir.

[00:45:29]>> Okay. Now, you following me still? If he kept running past that driveway, then you could narrow it down, too. You can say, "Uh, Mr. Police Officer, he kept running past that first complex and the next one is up there on the right, right?"

[00:45:45]>> Uh, I could have.

[00:45:48]>> Okay. Are you tracking my question? So, my my question is, why do you need to be right up on him, jogging beside him the whole time?

[00:45:57]>> I did not plan to be right on him. But you were >> because he tripped.

[00:46:02]>> So you watched a 14y old boy with one shoe.

[00:46:08]You suspected of stealing $1 of water trip and fall. And you didn't just turn around and say, "Dad, let's call it a day. Let's just go back. We've done too much already."

[00:46:21]You didn't do it.

[00:46:22]>> I did not do that >> cuz you're right up on it. And you said that in your statement, right?

[00:46:29]>> I was right up on >> I was arms length away.

[00:46:32]>> Okay. You still didn't notice he was only wearing one shoe?

[00:46:35]>> No, sir.

[00:46:35]>> He busted his butt pretty bad there, didn't he?

[00:46:38]>> His butt. No, >> he busted his shins up, right? I mean, he was down like on his stomach, right?

[00:46:45]>> He was on his He was flat and I saw something in his hand. Okay, this is state 78.

[00:46:58]Okay.

[00:47:00]And you hit pretty hard. Okay.

[00:47:04]And uh are you familiar with a tack light?

[00:47:11]This is stage number six. Are you familiar with the tack light?

[00:47:14]>> Uh yes, sir.

[00:47:23]remember that on the ground?

[00:47:24]>> Uh, I did not see it myself, but >> Well, like you were standing there with the officer when he identified it being there after the fact.

[00:47:34]>> I thought they were talking about a red thing on the floor.

[00:47:37]>> But you you didn't see that other time.

[00:47:38]>> I did not see that.

[00:47:40]>> All right. Well, let me see stage 35.

[00:47:52]You saw his shin just now. How what he did to himself after that fall.

[00:47:56]>> Uh I did see that.

[00:47:57]>> Okay. And it was a it was a fairly he he bit the I mean he hit the ground pretty hard, did he not?

[00:48:05]>> Uh he did fall flight uh flat on the ground.

[00:48:10]>> Okay. That was right about here where AA is. Correct.

[00:48:15]Uh, I believe it was a bit further out.

[00:48:20]>> Okay.

[00:48:22]Do you see AA?

[00:48:23]>> Yes, sir.

[00:48:24]>> You realize that's an attachment to the pistol he had on him?

[00:48:27]>> Yes, sir.

[00:48:28]>> Okay. Do you have any explanation cuz you were the closest one to him, correct?

[00:48:33]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:48:34]>> All right. He had to have hit the ground right here for his det uh optic, his flashlight to come detached and come to rest right there. Right. You didn't throw her there, did you?

[00:48:46]>> I did not.

[00:48:46]>> And that's not yours, is it?

[00:48:48]>> No, sir.

[00:48:48]>> And that doesn't go to your dad's gun, does it?

[00:48:50]>> No, sir.

[00:48:51]>> So, that is where he fell, correct?

[00:48:54]>> From my memory, he fell a bit uh further, a bit after.

[00:48:59]>> So, I >> You were closest to him.

[00:49:02]>> Yes, sir.

[00:49:03]>> How did that get to be right there, then? Did you move it?

[00:49:06]>> Then he maybe when he took it out.

[00:49:10]>> When did he take it out?

[00:49:12]>> I don't know. But when he was on the ground, it was already in his hand.

[00:49:16]>> Okay. Do you think maybe when he hit the ground, it came out of his pocket? You think that's possible?

[00:49:23]>> I'm not sure.

[00:49:24]>> Okay. He hit the ground pretty hard, did he not?

[00:49:30]>> He did.

[00:49:31]>> You were right there up on He hit the ground hard, did he not?

[00:49:38]>> Uh, he did.

[00:49:39]>> Okay. And he's already lost his shoe.

[00:49:41]You understand that?

[00:49:43]>> Uh, okay. Yes, sir.

[00:49:46]>> Do you understand that?

[00:49:48]>> Uh, >> you want me to watch play the video again for you?

[00:49:51]>> No, sir.

[00:49:52]>> We know he lost his shoe cuz your mom brought up your store, right? You were there.

[00:49:56]>> Yes, sir.

[00:49:57]>> Okay. If I ask a question, you don't understand. Just ask me to repeat.

[00:50:00]>> Well, I I didn't know he had didn't have his shoe on.

[00:50:03]>> I didn't ask you that.

[00:50:04]>> Okay.

[00:50:04]>> We understand now he lost his shoe, correct?

[00:50:06]>> Yes, sir.

[00:50:07]>> Okay. We understand now that two cell phones had flown off of him in his haste to get away from you two. Correct.

[00:50:15]>> I saw him throw it. Yes, sir.

[00:50:18]>> But at the day you said it flew off of him. You didn't say throw. Correct.

[00:50:22]>> Uh that day. Yes, sir.

[00:50:23]>> Okay. I know you want to say the day that he threw him, but I'm talking about May 28, 2023. You said two things flew off of him.

[00:50:31]>> Yes, sir.

[00:50:31]>> All right. So, we now know that in his haste to get away from you, he ran out of the sneaker and now he's running up the road with one shoe on. In his haste to get away from you two, he has dropped two cell phones. Cuz who do you know that throws cell phones away? You never know anybody like that?

[00:50:48]>> I do not.

[00:50:49]>> Okay. So, two He's running away from you so hastily. He comes out of the shoe, drops two cell phones, but you two continue to chase him. Correct.

[00:50:59]>> Uh, yes, sir. Okay. Continue to follow him.

[00:51:03]>> Follow him.

[00:51:04]>> All right.

[00:51:05]>> Why do I choose that term?

[00:51:07]>> Chase and follow.

[00:51:08]>> Chase.

[00:51:09]>> Are you comfortable when I say chase him?

[00:51:10]>> Yes, sir.

[00:51:11]>> Okay. You continue to chase him and then the boy, the 14-year-old 114 lb boy hits the ground so hard and you're hovering over him and the light has he hits so hard that that light has come off of his gun.

[00:51:28]Why not just run back to the shell station at that point and say, "This is enough. This is This is We've gone way too far over a dollar bottle of water.

[00:51:38]Why didn't you and your dad do that then?"

[00:51:40]>> So everything was happening fast.

[00:51:44]>> Yeah.

[00:51:44]>> So I caught up to him >> and I see the gun.

[00:51:48]>> Okay.

[00:51:48]>> And then it's pointed at me.

[00:51:51]>> So >> how many times did you see?

[00:51:54]>> Oh, okay. Well, I want to get to that.

[00:51:57]Who did you tell that day that he pointed a gun at you?

[00:52:01]>> I did not see the exact word.

[00:52:05]>> What am I doing right now?

[00:52:06]>> Pointing at me.

[00:52:07]>> Yeah. It's a very simple word, is it not?

[00:52:11]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:52:13]>> Okay. You never say pointed. You never used the term aim, did you not?

[00:52:18]>> Or you didn't, did you?

[00:52:19]>> I did not. I did motion it pointing. You >> never said point. You never said aim.

[00:52:26]You said he pulled a gun. I saw a gun.

[00:52:29]>> Yes, sir. I said those things.

[00:52:31]>> Okay.

[00:52:35]>> English is your first language, correct?

[00:52:37]>> Yes, sir.

[00:52:37]>> Do you even speak Cantonese?

[00:52:40]>> Uh, only a little bit.

[00:52:41]>> Only a little. Do you understand the term point? You use it all the time. Do you not?

[00:52:45]>> Yes, sir.

[00:52:46]>> Do you understand the word aim? Correct.

[00:52:48]>> Yes, sir.

[00:52:50]>> Did anybody stop you from using those words that day?

[00:52:53]>> No, sir. They also did not ask me.

[00:53:00]>> Did you have trouble volunteering that very important piece of information?

[00:53:06]>> I the first thing that came to my mind was he I he pulled it and then I just point I pointed with my hand.

[00:53:12]>> He pulled Could it have come out of his pocket when he took that violent fall to the ground?

[00:53:19]>> I believe he took it out. Could it have come out of his pocket when he took that violent hit on the ground that dislodged the flashlight from his gun?

[00:53:28]>> I'm not sure.

[00:53:29]>> Could it have fallen out of his pocket after you chased him 130 yards and he hit the ground, wounding his shin, dislodging that light from his gun?

[00:53:39]Could it have come out of his pocket at that point?

[00:53:43]>> It could have.

[00:53:44]>> Okay.

[00:53:47]>> You never saw it before he fell.

[00:53:48]Correct.

[00:53:50]the gun.

[00:53:54]>> You never saw that gun before he fell.

[00:53:56]Correct.

[00:53:57]>> Uh, no, sir.

[00:53:58]>> All right. It's the first time you're even aware of it is when you're right on top of him and he's hurt himself and he's lying on the ground face down.

[00:54:06]Correct.

[00:54:07]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[00:54:08]>> And where's your dad?

[00:54:10]>> I'm not sure. He's behind me.

[00:54:13]>> Two to three feet behind you, maybe.

[00:54:14]>> I'm not sure.

[00:54:15]>> Would it surprise you? You said before that he was two to three feet behind you.

[00:54:19]Um, I don't remember.

[00:54:23]>> Would this surprise you?

[00:54:25]>> Do you deny saying that?

[00:54:27]>> Uh, I don't remember saying it.

[00:54:29]>> Do you deny saying that?

[00:54:32]>> I don't I just don't remember saying that.

[00:54:34]>> Do you deny saying that he was 2 to 3 ft behind you?

[00:54:40]>> I'm not sure.

[00:55:28]Okay.

[00:56:06]How far away you think you were from him when he fell to the ground when you first saw the gun >> from young man.

[00:56:18]>> Yes sir.

[00:56:18]>> Um more than like 10 ft maybe.

[00:56:29]>> Okay. Your dad was 10 feet >> 10 feet from >> I was from him or >> you were 10 feet from sirens when he fell >> when he tripped?

[00:56:39]>> Yeah.

[00:56:40]>> Yes, sir. He was ahead of me.

[00:56:41]>> Okay. But then you got right up on him is what you testified to.

[00:56:44]>> Yes, sir. And then I got up to him.

[00:56:46]>> Okay. You right up on him is I think what?

[00:56:48]>> Yeah. Arm length. Yes, sir.

[00:56:49]>> Okay. Arm length. How far was your dad from you at that point?

[00:56:53]>> I'm not sure. I did not look back.

[00:56:56]>> Okay. Would you say do you remember saying that he was maybe 5 to 10 ft from Cyrus?

[00:57:07]>> At what point?

[00:57:09]>> Um, do you remember giving an interview saying that?

[00:57:13]>> At what point was he at 5 to >> when when Mr. Cyrus Carmarmac was lying on the ground and you see the gun?

[00:57:20]>> Oh, uh, >> your arm length. How far is it?

[00:57:26]I'm not completely sure.

[00:57:28]>> Let me see if you >> recognize making your statements here.

[00:57:47]>> Okay. Did you deny making those statements?

[00:57:49]>> Uh, I do not deny.

[00:57:50]>> Okay. So, you previously told uh or indicated that your dad was 5 to 10 feet away from him and you were maybe 2 feet from him when you first saw the gun.

[00:58:03]>> Uh that is what I said.

[00:58:07]>> I'm asking you I mean >> Oh, I I >> Do you remember giving an interview with Mr. Jordan, investigator Jordan?

[00:58:13]>> So, I was told by Mr. that I can only say what I saw >> that that day and I did I did not know my dad was behind me. I do not know.

[00:58:25]>> Okay.

[00:58:27]Remember in investigator Orton Jordan, how many feet do you think your dad was um from Cyrus that you had to guess?

[00:58:35]Yeah. I'm going to object to give the last word guess and we told him not to speculate.

[00:58:42]We approach him.

[00:58:46]What's up?

[00:59:11]ask you how far if you had to guess from Cyrus was your father. You don't deny him asking that, right?

[00:59:19]>> You don't deny saying it'd be like 5 to 10 ft.

[00:59:22]>> You don't deny that?

[00:59:23]>> Yes, sir. I would be guessing where he was.

[00:59:29]You would have seen him. How could you have guessed a distance if you didn't see him?

[00:59:33]>> I did not see him.

[00:59:34]>> Well, you just testified a minute ago with your lawyer that when you saw the gun, you looked up, turned towards your dad, and said, "He's got a gun." Did you not testify with Mr. Kent about that?

[00:59:46]>> I thought the question was when I was next to the young man, I saw the gun.

[00:59:52]>> You saw the gun?

[00:59:53]>> Yes, sir. So then I >> Go ahead. So then I uh I see the gun and it points up at me.

[00:59:59]>> So I put my hands up.

[01:00:01]>> I see he has a gun >> still facing.

[01:00:04]>> And then then I back I'm backing up at this point and then I turn and I see my dad.

[01:00:10]>> Oh. So now there's a lot more time than I thought between these events. So now your testimony is you're right up on top of him. He's falling. Okay. Stop me if I'm wrong. Okay. I I'm just trying to repeat what I think you just said.

[01:00:25]>> Okay.

[01:00:26]>> You're right on top of him. You see a gun. You don't know where your dad is right now. Correct.

[01:00:31]>> Yes. Correct.

[01:00:32]>> So, how many seconds does it take for you to go whoa back up? Back up and say he's got a gun.

[01:00:37]>> Um, well, it' be he has got a gun and then I turn to where you are now and tell my dad he has a gun.

[01:00:45]>> He's got a gun.

[01:00:46]>> When you're looking at your dad, how far away is he from Cyrus who's still on the ground? 5 to 10 feet. Um, I'd see closer to 10 ft. 10 ft over.

[01:00:55]>> Okay. Wonder why you said 5 to 10 when investigator Jordan asked you that.

[01:00:59]>> Um, my I learned that my uh perception of feet, how far long a feet foot was was wrong.

[01:01:09]>> Okay. So, over three years, you've learned about 12 in and what it means to be five or 10 feet. You've learned distance is better over three years. Is that what you're saying?

[01:01:20]um after I explained it.

[01:01:23]>> Okay.

[01:01:23]>> So, let me get this right cuz I just want to be clear. He's still on the ground as you're running backwards.

[01:01:29]>> Uh no, he's getting up.

[01:01:31]>> Okay.

[01:01:31]>> And that's when he points the gun at me as he's getting up >> and still running. He continues to run.

[01:01:37]>> Uh he does continue to go forward. Yes, sir.

[01:01:40]>> Okay.

[01:01:41]And so I guess that must mean that he's doing this.

[01:01:48]>> Uh, not behind him because I'm I'm not backing up straight backwards.

[01:01:54]>> How are you backing up?

[01:01:55]>> Since I was running full speed, >> I slow down. I I'm maybe arms length away. And then then I see the gun and I start to back up and I start to go out this way.

[01:02:07]>> Okay, Stephanie, I have stage number 26.

[01:02:14]All right, J. Can I have the witness just step down just explain >> real quick?

[01:02:36]You recognize what we're looking at?

[01:02:37]Stage 26.

[01:02:38]>> Yes, sir.

[01:02:39]>> All right. Show us where he And I want you to as best you can put the tip of that on the exact spot where he fell.

[01:02:47]>> Um, it would be right here.

[01:02:51]>> Okay.

[01:02:52]Right there. And that's about where that tack light was found. Correct.

[01:02:56]>> I believe put me where you found right there.

[01:03:01]Okay. And you're right up on top of him.

[01:03:04]I'm sorry.

[01:03:05]>> Go ahead. You're right up on top of him when he you see the gun right there.

[01:03:08]Yes, sir.

[01:03:09]>> Show us the direction you backed up in.

[01:03:11]>> So, I come in and I back out this way.

[01:03:15]>> Why would you back up further towards the road instead of back to safety where the park lane road is?

[01:03:22]>> Uh because my momentum is taking me out this way.

[01:03:25]>> Well, your momentum, you said you stopped right over him. You're right on top of him. How do you have momentum if you were in the stopping position?

[01:03:31]>> Well, I didn't come to a full stop. I I came in slow down and I see the gun and then I start to come out this way and then so I turn around here and I see my dad and then >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, slow down, slow down.

[01:03:48]He hits the ground. How long was he down on the ground?

[01:03:53]>> Um, maybe one or two seconds.

[01:03:56]>> One or two seconds.

[01:03:58]And you're right on top of him is what you testified to, correct?

[01:04:02]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:04:04]>> Yes, sir.

[01:04:04]>> Okay.

[01:04:06]>> Right on top of him while you're moving past him or I don't understand cuz I understood that you stopped right beside him. You're an arms length away from him is what you said prior.

[01:04:14]>> Yes, sir.

[01:04:15]>> Okay, you stop.

[01:04:16]>> So, I I Well, I came in and then I mean I didn't come to a full stop right here and then start to go. Well, if he's on the ground. Okay. So, you're explaining he hits the ground, you just kind of keep running past him.

[01:04:29]>> I keep coming up here and then he starts to get up.

[01:04:32]>> Okay.

[01:04:33]>> And then he points the gun at me. And so I continue that.

[01:04:40]>> And if he's pointing the gun at you, he's trying to move this way. Why are you backing up in the same direction he's moving? I don't understand.

[01:04:49]Why not go back this way? You just approached a man with a gun. Why are you backing up in the same direction of travel as he's going? I don't understand.

[01:04:58]>> Well, my momentum is just taking me that way.

[01:05:02]>> But you already said you stopped right beside him when he hit the ground.

[01:05:05]>> Well, no. I didn't come to a full stop.

[01:05:07]I don't >> All right. So, let me let me get this straight. You're running forward here, correct?

[01:05:12]>> Yeah. Full sprint.

[01:05:13]>> Okay. Okay. And then you slow down and suddenly you're back. How do you do that?

[01:05:19]How do you go from sprinting forward to backpedaling without stopping?

[01:05:23]>> Can you demonstrate that?

[01:05:25]>> Uh, sure.

[01:05:28]>> You can you can go from a dead sprint to a back pedal without stopping?

[01:05:32]>> Well, no. I slow down.

[01:05:35]>> Okay. So, you can go from a sprint to slow down to backpedal.

[01:05:38]>> Yes, sir.

[01:05:40]>> Can you Do we have enough room for you to do that? I've never seen that done.

[01:05:43]No.

[01:05:44]>> Is that something you practice?

[01:05:47]No.

[01:05:49]What >> you're describing is a full sprint, slow down, and then suddenly you're backpedaling up the road.

[01:05:55]>> Is that your testimony?

[01:05:56]>> Yes, sir.

[01:05:57]>> Okay.

[01:05:58]Cyrus is trying to get up, but he's continuing this way, correct?

[01:06:03]>> Yes.

[01:06:04]>> And do you remember? All right. So, when you back up here, you don't deny that you said you turned to look at your dad and said he hasn't gone.

[01:06:10]>> Yes, sir.

[01:06:11]>> Now, put the point where your dad was standing when you first saw when you turned around, look at your dad. up here and I can see he comes up around this spot.

[01:06:19]>> Okay, he's right about there. That's about where that casing is from.

[01:06:23]>> Okay.

[01:06:23]>> And then Cyrus up already on his feet and out this way.

[01:06:28]>> Okay. Cyrus is continuing trying to get up that way. Yes, sir.

[01:06:31]>> And it's your testimony that as he's running, he's doing that to you.

[01:06:34]>> Yes, sir.

[01:06:35]>> Okay. And you're running with him kind of I mean, he's running that way. You're backing up with him.

[01:06:41]>> Uh, yes, sir. But kind of like going away from him.

[01:06:46]Okay. Well, you just said you're when you're backpedaling, you're going up Springtree away from Park Lane, right?

[01:06:52]>> It' be this way.

[01:06:54]>> Okay. But you're still are you going towards Parkland when you're backing up or up closer? Oh, >> yeah. Just I'll be going up uh Spring Tree.

[01:07:03]>> Okay. Well, that's what I'm asking.

[01:07:05]Cyrus is going up Spring Tree, too, right?

[01:07:08]>> Uh yes, sir.

[01:07:09]>> Okay. And you're going up Spring Tree, correct? That's what you just said.

[01:07:12]>> Yes, sir.

[01:07:12]>> All right. So, he's running and you're backpedaling beside him. He's he's running with a gun the whole time.

[01:07:17]That's what your testimony is, right?

[01:07:19]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:07:20]>> Okay.

[01:07:23]You can have a seat.

[01:07:25]So, um, your dad is standing in front back there going, "What the hell is going on?

[01:07:31]Why is my son backpedaling with this guy aiming a gun at him?" Right.

[01:07:35]>> Uh, I'm not sure what he was doing.

[01:07:38]>> Have you ever seen anything like that before?

[01:07:40]One man running down the road aiming a gun at somebody. Another guy jogging beside him.

[01:07:45]>> Um I mean there would be about like there's a good distance between us.

[01:07:54]I'm not like right next to him.

[01:07:56]>> Okay. How So how far did you back off of him at that point? Um about maybe 20 ft away now.

[01:08:12]>> 20 ft away.

[01:08:13]>> Going away from each other.

[01:08:14]>> Okay. But you're both moving up Spring Tree away from Parkland.

[01:08:19]You >> up Spring Tree and away from each other.

[01:08:22]>> Okay. And there's trees in between you and Cyrus at this point, correct?

[01:08:26]>> Uh yes, sir.

[01:08:27]>> Okay. And he's trying to he's trying to get towards those apartments, is he not?

[01:08:32]>> I'm not sure what he was.

[01:08:33]>> Which direction? One more time, Andy.

[01:08:35]Which direction was he going? Was he going towards Park Lane or up Spring Tree?

[01:08:39]>> He was going up Spring Tree.

[01:08:40]>> Okay. And what what's at the end of Spring Tree?

[01:08:44]>> Uh some apartments.

[01:08:45]>> But is there any doubt he was trying to get away from you two?

[01:08:49]>> Uh I don't know what he was thinking.

[01:08:52]What he was doing.

[01:08:53]>> Was he running towards you or away from you? I was going running away from him >> now that he's pointing a gun.

[01:08:59]>> Let me ask you, I'm going to make this real step by step.

[01:09:02]>> Okay.

[01:09:03]>> When y'all left the shell station, >> was he trying to get away from you two?

[01:09:08]>> Uh, I'm not I'm not sure why he ran.

[01:09:13]>> Did he ever stop and ask to shake your hand?

[01:09:16]>> No, sir.

[01:09:17]>> Did he ever run towards you?

[01:09:19]>> No, sir.

[01:09:20]>> Okay. He was running away from you, right, Andy?

[01:09:24]Um, I I can't speak for him.

[01:09:33]>> Was he running towards you?

[01:09:36]>> No, sir.

[01:09:36]>> Was he running away from you?

[01:09:39]>> Um, >> it's not a hard question.

[01:09:41]>> I guess not to me. Yes, sir. He was about He was >> He was trying to get away from where you were. Correct. Uh, >> it could be.

[01:09:51]>> It could be.

[01:09:55]You and your dad are yelling at him and running after him.

[01:09:58]>> I did not.

[01:10:01]Outside of the store, I did not yell at him.

[01:10:02]>> You yelled at him in the store?

[01:10:04]>> Well, I called out to him, "Hey."

[01:10:07]>> And your dad yelled to him when he got out of the store.

[01:10:09]>> And my dad called out, "Hey," to him.

[01:10:11]Yes.

[01:10:11]>> And he ran away from you.

[01:10:14]>> Okay. Yes, sir.

[01:10:15]>> I know. I'm asking you. This is your chance to answer my questions. And they're not hard, are they? Um, >> he ran away from you and your father, did he not?

[01:10:27]>> He did run away from me.

[01:10:29]>> Okay.

[01:10:30]Thank you.

[01:10:32]>> Okay.

[01:10:32]>> At any point did he turn and engage with you? You understand that word?

[01:10:36]>> Uh, he did not.

[01:10:37]>> Okay. At any point did he stop and turn towards your dad and pull out a gun in the store?

[01:10:44]>> Towards my dad? No, sir.

[01:10:45]>> Did he do that to you in the store?

[01:10:47]>> No, sir. Did he do that when y'all chased him into Spring Tree? Did he turn around before y'all left the parking lot and point a gun at you?

[01:10:54]>> No, sir.

[01:10:55]>> But you continued to chase him though, didn't he?

[01:10:57]>> And you actually called up to him the first You called up to him twice is what you said in your statement roadside, right?

[01:11:03]>> Oh, yes, sir.

[01:11:03]>> What does that mean? What was the first time you caught up with him?

[01:11:06]>> I'm not completely sure.

[01:11:08]>> Okay. So, how so you catch up with him and then he keeps going, then he falls and then you catch up with him again and that's when the gun thing happens, right?

[01:11:17]>> Uh, yes, sir. He pointed the gun at me.

[01:11:19]>> Okay. And you said he fell. He took one to two steps after he got shot and fell down.

[01:11:25]>> Yes, sir.

[01:11:26]>> Okay.

[01:11:27]>> Or Yeah, he kind of ducks to the ground and stays on the ground.

[01:11:30]>> Okay. But you testified he took one to two steps after he was shot and fell to the ground.

[01:11:36]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:11:37]>> Okay. Let me see states 32 please.

[01:11:39]Definitely.

[01:11:45]>> So where we see sirens here pretty much where he got shot, right?

[01:11:50]>> Yes sir.

[01:11:53]>> Or what >> it that's when I see him and he takes one two steps and then falls.

[01:12:01]That's not where he got shot. Right there.

[01:12:03]>> Yeah.

[01:12:04]>> Okay.

[01:12:05]>> You must have got shot somewhere in here. Right. If you take one to two steps and then pause.

[01:12:10]>> I think it'd be a bit further left.

[01:12:14]>> Aren't you taking big steps?

[01:12:16]>> Well, it's not exact. I didn't look at him immediately. So, there could be steps before those first two steps I saw.

[01:12:24]>> Your testimony before was he got shot, took one maybe two steps, and then failed.

[01:12:29]>> Do you deny that? U my testimony is I I saw my dad fire a shot and I turned to him and I see he takes one two steps and >> you g statements before >> sir.

[01:12:47]>> Oh sorry what >> have you spoken with investigator Jordan?

[01:12:51]>> Uh yes sir.

[01:12:53]>> Did you not tell him he took one maybe two steps and then fell? Uh, I believe I did.

[01:13:01]>> I I I believe I did.

[01:13:03]>> Okay. Are you changing your testimony today for any reason or do you stand by that statement?

[01:13:08]>> That's exactly how he answered the question. We're mischaracterizing what the witness said. He answered it exactly as um the solicitor just asked the second time.

[01:13:17]>> Oh, not the witness.

[01:13:21]>> You previously said he gets shot, takes one, maybe two steps, and then falls.

[01:13:26]doesn't get back up. Right.

[01:13:28]>> Um I I did say those words.

[01:13:31]>> Okay.

[01:13:33]So tell me then about where Tell me when you stop where he was when he you remember him getting shot.

[01:13:43]>> It would be about there.

[01:13:45]>> There.

[01:13:46]>> Yes, sir.

[01:13:46]>> Okay. So that's one two steps. He must have really been moving.

[01:13:52]He must have been moving pretty fast trying to get up that hill. If that's one to two steps carried him that far, right?

[01:13:58]>> Um, well, there would have been more steps before the one or two that I saw.

[01:14:07]>> Listen.

[01:14:08]>> Okay.

[01:14:08]>> Your prior testimony, I want to be very clear. Talk slow. Your prior testimony was this. He gets shot, takes one or two steps, and falls.

[01:14:19]Do you deny that?

[01:14:20]>> No, sir.

[01:14:21]>> Okay. We're clear on that now. We don't have to go back and forth on that anymore, do we?

[01:14:26]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:14:27]>> Shot one or two steps false. We're clear on that.

[01:14:33]Are we clear on that?

[01:14:35]>> Yes, sir.

[01:14:35]>> Okay. Let me ask again.

[01:14:40]This is where you didn't move him, did you? After he fell to the ground, did you did you drag him anywhere? You >> No, sir. Just flipped him.

[01:14:47]>> Okay. Well, then this is where he came to rest, finally. Correct.

[01:14:51]>> Yes, sir.

[01:14:52]Where was he shot? If it's one or two steps away, >> tell me when.

[01:15:04]>> It would be around there.

[01:15:05]>> Okay. Look at that. Look at that, Andy.

[01:15:08]>> Yes, sir.

[01:15:08]>> You're a You're a uh I don't know, division one level swimmer, right? What do you do? The 150 meter >> division? Not division one. No, sir.

[01:15:17]Just high school academy. You were a swimmer there. All state. Yes, sir.

[01:15:22]>> You're familiar with distances, right?

[01:15:24]>> Um, in yards.

[01:15:26]>> Just yards.

[01:15:26]>> Yes, sir.

[01:15:28]>> You're familiar too with my stride being what it is when I'm walking, but when I'm sprinting, I'm taking a lot bigger steps.

[01:15:34]>> Oh, yes, sir.

[01:15:34]>> That he was really moving.

[01:15:37]If we are to understand that he shot right here and that's one or two steps away, he must have been sprinting up that hill.

[01:15:51]I mean, from that point, it was now one or two steps.

[01:15:56]>> That's right. Well, no. I thought we were clear on that. We already said one or two steps after we shot up. We already cleared that up. I thought >> I mean, I I just been explaining to you what it what it was.

[01:16:09]>> Yeah. I thought we were clear. He got shot, took one or two steps, and fell.

[01:16:12]But maybe we weren't.

[01:16:16]Okay.

[01:16:46]One or two steps. I fell at this point.

[01:16:49]How far out into the road are you?

[01:16:51]You've already must have You're backpedaling up Spring Tree. I remember that. How far up in the middle of Spring Tree are you?

[01:16:58]>> Um, so the two the two lines in the middle of the road. I'm about on the right about past a little bit.

[01:17:08]>> Can I see states 26 one more time, Stephanie?

[01:17:15]All right, we talked about this is about where he fell. The jab was about right there when he fired the shot. We know he comes to rest and passes away somewhere right in this area. Correct.

[01:17:32]>> Correct, Andy.

[01:17:33]>> Um, no. It'd be a bit further down >> down to the left.

[01:17:42]>> Is that right? Uh, and then to the left more to >> the left. Okay. Or there.

[01:17:46]>> Uh, it would be around there.

[01:17:48]>> Okay.

[01:17:50]And so, um, he was shot in his back. You know that, right?

[01:17:54]>> Yes, sir.

[01:17:55]>> All right. He's right here. Okay. When he's shot, you're aware now.

[01:18:00]>> I would be at the double lines.

[01:18:03]>> Okay. You've had a chance at this point to somehow get all the way back up here. How long did it take you to backpedal all that way?

[01:18:16]>> I'm not sure.

[01:18:18]>> Okay.

[01:18:22]How long how many seconds or how much time do you think passed between when you saw he had a gun, you start backpedaling, you yell to your dad, he's got a gun, you're still backpedaling, and then your dad fires a shot. I mean, how much time was around 10 seconds.

[01:18:54]>> 10 seconds.

[01:18:55]>> Okay.

[01:19:01]>> When did Cyrus fire that gun?

[01:19:05]>> Uh, he did not.

[01:19:07]>> He had 10 seconds to fire the gun and he didn't.

[01:19:11]Um, well, you said from when he fell to the ground >> to when he is shot.

[01:19:16]>> Yeah.

[01:19:17]>> 10 seconds.

[01:19:19]>> Yes, sir.

[01:19:19]>> Okay. So, in 10 seconds, he hits the ground. He's getting up. He's aiming at you, but he's continuing to move forward and you're backpedaling with him up the road. And 10 seconds of this is going on. Your dad's just watching from behind that you're yelling gun. And that all happens like within 10 second period of time.

[01:19:40]>> Yes. And then when I after I see the gun, I say, "There's a gun. There's a gun." It's probably 5 seconds now.

[01:19:48]>> Okay. 10 seconds from when he hit the ground, you see it. And then he shot.

[01:19:54]>> Yes, sir.

[01:19:55]>> Okay. And then that pistol laid on the ground the entire time. And I mean I I don't know if we need to watch it, but the body cam footage, it shows you and your dad kind of just walking around the scene and hanging out as law enforcement roping off the area and everything. You remember that?

[01:20:13]>> I was not walking around the scene.

[01:20:14]>> You don't remember if I showed you some body cam footage? I mean, they taught me on the side of the road. Do you remember that?

[01:20:19]>> I stayed out away from the scene.

[01:20:22]>> Okay. Well, I'm just talking about But you were right around where the tack light and the shell casing were found, correct?

[01:20:26]>> Yes, sir. And you know, people are walking up and down the road and all around the scene. Do you not remember that?

[01:20:33]>> Uh, I do remember that.

[01:20:35]>> Okay.

[01:20:36]>> And the Taurus pistol laid right there beside those trees the entire time.

[01:20:40]Unless somebody else moved it. Did you ever get to see move beside your dad?

[01:20:44]>> Uh, I did not see it at all after um it was tossed to the side. Even though it's right there, right there by your feet >> when it's tossed.

[01:21:00]>> Right there.

[01:21:01]>> I was going to man.

[01:21:05]>> Okay. And then later after he shot, your dad throws it out there kind of near where you were standing.

[01:21:11]>> Um, no. It was off to the side and I went over to uh the young man.

[01:21:18]>> Okay. It's found right there. on. Have you ever seen this before? Yes, sir.

[01:21:23]>> There's a pistol right there and you guys are all walking around when law enforcement shows up.

[01:21:27]>> I'm in the parking lot or I'm in the parking lot. Yes, sir.

[01:21:32]>> You're all over the scene in the body cam walking around. They interview you down here by those two poles.

[01:21:37]>> I stayed over I did not walk around the scene.

[01:21:41]>> Um Andy, one second.

[01:21:54]Well, a minute ago too, you testified that um as he's trying to run and you're backpedaling up with him, your dad says, "Drop it." He says, "No."

[01:22:06]Remember you testified to that, Mr. When when have you ever said that before?

[01:22:10]>> Mischaracterization. That's not what the witness testified.

[01:22:13]>> I'll let the witness correct.

[01:22:18]>> What did you say? Did you not misremember that?

[01:22:21]>> Um, so what I said, my dad said.

[01:22:27]>> What? I >> just correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I heard earlier uh your dad, you told your dad he's got a gun.

[01:22:34]>> Yes, sir. Your dad said drop and Syrus said no.

[01:22:39]>> No.

[01:22:44]I said I heard my dad say that where he said drop it. Drop it.

[01:22:49]>> Yeah.

[01:22:49]>> And my dad said no.

[01:22:51]>> It was my dad that said that >> and then he fired the shot.

[01:22:56]Why did you were so sure of it that day that you left your possession at the cash register and you ran out of the store?

[01:23:12]You were that certain, were you not?

[01:23:14]>> Yes, sir.

[01:23:15]>> Okay. Well, I I mean, I walked up. I did not run up to the store.

[01:23:19]>> We're not going to get back in.

[01:23:20]>> Okay.

[01:23:21]>> You briskly logged. You ran what? I'm not going to get that.

[01:23:26]But you were certain enough you lived.

[01:23:30]We did that.

[01:23:32]You ran after that boy. You were that certain he had stolen where you >> uh I believed it. And when he ran, that's when I I really believed that he had stolen something.

[01:23:45]>> And you were dead wrong, weren't you?

[01:23:48]>> I did learn that afterwards.

[01:23:50]>> You were dead wrong, weren't you?

[01:23:53]I was wrong.

[01:24:00]>> There was nothing to stop you or your dad from calling 911 if you thought he had taken that dollar or what it was.

[01:24:06]Nobody stopped.

[01:24:07]>> No, sir.

[01:24:14]>> You had time to go back and review the video footage and realize you hadn't taken that water bottle, did you?

[01:24:25]You could have looked back at the video and reviewed it and realized he didn't take anywhere, could you not?

[01:24:33]>> It's either I do that or go see where he was going.

[01:24:37]>> Okay.

[01:24:39]But if you would have reviewed it, you would have realized I didn't have to labor the victim.

[01:24:44]>> You or your >> I was not thinking that.

[01:24:46]>> I'm not blaming. I'm just asking. Okay.

[01:24:49]Okay.

[01:24:51]There was nothing to stop you or your father from going back, reviewing that footage, and taking the time to do that, and realize he hadn't stolen anything.

[01:25:01]There's nothing to stop that, was there?

[01:25:03]>> Nothing.

[01:25:04]>> Okay.

[01:25:06]I'm not trying to, >> but there really wasn't anything to stop that, was there?

[01:25:11]>> No, sir.

[01:25:20]And he could have taken the pictures if he had stolen. Let's say he did.

[01:25:30]I could have put him up on the wall of shame.

[01:25:33]We could have sent him out to law enforcement. And if this young man had taken that dollar bottle of water, we could have punished him, right? We could have. We could have done that. We could have blasted his image out and said, "We're looking for this man. He's suspected of stealing a bottle of water." And we could have helped law enforcement try to identify him, right?

[01:25:55]We could have done that.

[01:25:57]>> Could we go out to see to help see where he was going?

[01:26:08]>> That's all.

[01:26:09]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[01:26:13]That's all.

[01:26:31]Andy, you have been on the stand for a while and I know it's a little stressful.

[01:26:38]I want you take a breath for me. I want to ask you some questions and first I want to go and you know I guess it's hard getting peppered with questions and make sure your memory is perfect from 3 years ago. Is that a fair statement?

[01:26:51]>> Yes sir. And the first thing that you were getting yelled at about was that you had never given a statement about throw seeing him throw something. You remember those questions that they're like, "You didn't say this. You didn't say this. You didn't say this." You remember that?

[01:27:04]>> Yes, sir.

[01:27:05]>> And if not mistaken, there were four times where you were asked, you were asked on a bodywn camera.

[01:27:14]>> Yes, sir.

[01:27:15]>> Uh in store.

[01:27:19]Then you were interviewed and then you had formally given testimony all about something being thrown. You remember that?

[01:27:25]>> Uh yes sir.

[01:27:26]>> So first let's talk about on scene and when we're on scene with a bodywn camera like the first time you see highlighted what you told the officer.

[01:27:43]>> Uh yes sir.

[01:27:44]>> What' you tell the officer on scene? Um, he had threw stuff out at the corner right there and he was running back down this way and I caught up to him once and then he kept going.

[01:27:55]>> So, first and suggested that you didn't see it and didn't see it, but on scene first time one time he threw something.

[01:28:02]Yes, sir.

[01:28:03]>> Right.

[01:28:05]>> And then they talked about an interview in the store. Do you remember that?

[01:28:08]>> Oh, yes, sir.

[01:28:16]Looking at line 28 in store. What did you say in store?

[01:28:21]>> Oh, I saw him throw something out at the corner down there.

[01:28:25]>> It's number two.

[01:28:28]Second time now.

[01:28:37]Then they ask you about a later interview.

[01:28:42]You want me to do an interview with law enforcement? They were asking you about >> just read that.

[01:28:49]>> Started sprinting. Just myself.

[01:28:52]>> Yeah. Read it to yourself.

[01:28:55]Remember in that third time now you told law enforcement that you saw him throw something?

[01:29:00]>> Yes, sir. Is >> that a guess?

[01:29:02]>> Yes, sir.

[01:29:15]And then you formerly testified a fourth time under oath.

[01:29:20]Do you remember that?

[01:29:21]>> Yes, sir.

[01:29:22]>> What was your testimony then?

[01:29:25]>> I read it.

[01:29:26]>> Yeah. Go ahead.

[01:29:27]>> I get to the bottom of the parking lot before the road and I had seen him throw two cell phones out and so I stopped to look.

[01:29:34]what he had thrown.

[01:29:36]>> And so when you were being asked questions just now on crossexamination, you kept trying to tell the solicitor, I said he threw these, remember?

[01:29:44]>> Yes, sir.

[01:29:44]>> And you were just saying, no, you didn't.

[01:29:47]>> Is that is that a fair statement?

[01:29:48]>> Yes, sir.

[01:29:49]>> I just show you four separate times as close to the incident. So, you were correct in what you were saying.

[01:29:55]>> Objection.

[01:29:57]Sustain.

[01:30:00]It is hard being up there being cross-examined about your memory. Is that a fair statement?

[01:30:04]>> Yes, sir.

[01:30:11]>> The Celestro was asking you a lot of questions, but one of the things that were clear on there was a gun pointed in your face that day.

[01:30:18]>> Yes, sir.

[01:30:22]questions were being asked of you and I don't embarrass or so forth but there's questions asked to you about how you were running and came to a stop first I want you to tell the jury again what happened from the point in time when you were running and caught up tell the jury again so I caught up to so he had fallen on this um a flat and so I was running Um, full speed and I catch up to him.

[01:30:52]>> Let me stop you right there.

[01:30:57]>> Flat.

[01:31:00]>> Just flat down. He's on his stomach.

[01:31:02]>> Yes, sir.

[01:31:02]>> Which way? Can you have him facing you or Let's have him facing this way. Ju just for example purpose. Lay flat that way. Correct. Just flat down. Sorry about the seat.

[01:31:10]>> Okay. And so he's laying flat down.

[01:31:12]Correct.

[01:31:12]>> Yes, sir.

[01:31:13]>> And you said you were running up to him.

[01:31:15]>> Yes, sir.

[01:31:16]>> And then what happened? You slowed down immediately. I slowed down coming to the curb.

[01:31:21]>> Uhhuh.

[01:31:22]>> And then I see there's something in his hand.

[01:31:25]>> Uhhuh.

[01:31:26]>> And when I get closer, um, and he he's starting to get up.

[01:31:31]>> And he points the gun over at me.

[01:31:33]>> All right. And so you're going So the question of course from the solicitor, how can you stop and start going this way? And you were talking about momentum.

[01:31:40]>> Yes, sir.

[01:31:41]>> So it's something like that, right?

[01:31:43]>> Yes, sir.

[01:31:44]>> Wow. That's seem impossible.

[01:31:47]>> No, sir.

[01:31:50]And so your testimony is you're going full speed.

[01:31:55]Someone starts to stand up and then your momentum cuz you see what's going on.

[01:32:05]>> Yes, sir.

[01:32:06]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[01:32:11]>> Did that seem possible just now?

[01:32:13]>> No, sir.

[01:32:25]Was a gun pointed in your face?

[01:32:31]>> Yes, sir.

[01:32:32]>> How did it make you feel that day? All this other stuff, all these back and forth. How did it make it feel when a gun was pointed directly in your face?

[01:32:39]>> I was terrified.

[01:32:40]>> Terrified that what was going to happen?

[01:32:43]>> That I would die. And what did you do?

[01:32:45]Who did you yell to?

[01:32:47]>> I yelled to my dad.

[01:32:49]>> And what were you yelling to your dad?

[01:32:50]>> He's He's got a gun. He's got a gun.

[01:32:55]>> And your dad, wherever he was, what was he yelling?

[01:33:01]>> Drop it. Drop it. And no.

[01:33:06]>> And what was Cyrus doing?

[01:33:08]>> Pointing it at me and running. That is about right. Yes, sir. Thank you. No further questions.

[01:33:17]Cross.

[01:33:20]>> Who put you and your father in that position?

[01:33:24]>> Who put you and your father at that location on Springtree Drive?

[01:33:29]>> Um, I put myself there.

[01:33:33]>> Okay. Who put your dad there?

[01:33:35]>> Did you drag him along? Did anybody make your dad go up the hill 130 yards from your store, leaving the cash register unmanned? Who made him go up there? 130 yards away.

[01:33:48]>> Uh I I can I say what he >> Who made him go up there?

[01:33:57]>> I I don't know if I can though.

[01:33:59]>> I'm asking you a very Did you make him go up there?

[01:34:02]>> I myself did not make him go.

[01:34:06]>> Was he up there against his will? Did somebody drag your dad from his office all the way up that road to where Cyrus Carmarmac was shot and killed?

[01:34:18]>> Uh, no sir.

[01:34:21]>> Who drugg him up there?

[01:34:24]>> I would say just himself.

[01:34:26]>> He ran himself up there, did he not?

[01:34:29]>> That's what I would have thought seeing.

[01:34:32]Yes, sir.

[01:34:37]Is there a reason you can't answer my question with a yes or no?

[01:34:40]>> Because I was told I can't testify for someone or say >> you can say everything you saw and you know to be true.

[01:34:48]>> Okay. Yes, sir.

[01:34:49]>> Okay. And the judge will correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I've always understood a witness testifying.

[01:34:56]>> Do you have any reason to believe that your dad was up there against his will?

[01:35:00]>> No, sir.

[01:35:01]>> Okay. He voluntarily ran up Springtree Drive to where Cyrus Carmarmac was shot.

[01:35:10]Correct.

[01:35:11]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:35:12]>> Correct.

[01:35:13]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:35:14]>> And nobody stopped him from calling 911 to your knowledge.

[01:35:18]>> No, sir.

[01:35:20]>> Nobody stopped him from printing up these pictures of Mr. Belton. Correct.

[01:35:27]>> To my knowledge. No, sir.

[01:35:28]>> Nobody made him leave the Shell gas station that day. Right.

[01:35:34]>> No, to my knowledge. No, sir.

[01:35:39]>> He did it on his own with his own free will. Correct.

[01:35:45]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:35:46]>> The shooting doesn't happen if everybody stays in the Shell gas station that day.

[01:35:50]Correct.

[01:35:52]>> Everyone. Yes, sir.

[01:35:55]>> It doesn't happen. Correct.

[01:35:58]>> Uh, yes, sir.

[01:36:01]I'm correct in saying that. Is what you're saying?

[01:36:03]>> Yes, sir.

[01:36:04]>> Shooting doesn't happen if everybody stays put in the Shell gas station.

[01:36:07]Correct.

[01:36:09]>> Yes, sir.

[01:36:10]>> Thank you.

[01:36:14]>> Anything else briefly?

[01:36:18]>> It doesn't happen that Cyrus doesn't put a gun on you either. Correct.

[01:36:21]>> Correct.

[01:36:22]>> Thank you. No further question. But >> you don't even know there's a gun if YOU STAY IN THE GAS STATION. THAT'S NOT RIGHT. NO, >> YOU DON'T KNOW HE'S GOT A GUN IF YOU STAY PUT IN THE SHELL GAS STATION.

[01:36:41]CORRECT.

[01:36:42]>> UH, YES, SIR.

[01:36:45]>> I'm correct.

[01:36:46]>> Yes, sir.

[01:36:46]>> Thank you.

[01:36:52]>> All right. You step down, sir.

[01:37:02]All right, I think now is a good time to break for lunch. Um, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to break for lunch. Y'all, uh, again, don't discuss the case. Don't do any research, anything of that nature. Um, avoid any media publications with regard to it.

[01:37:17]And we will, let's just I know we got a little housekeeping. We're probably going to do um start back.

[01:37:26]All right, enjoy the lunch.

[01:37:34]>> Why is All right. Anything from the lawyers for the lunch?

[01:38:07]>> Nothing on behalf of Mr. All right.

[01:38:11]Thank you, sir.

#law and crime #court tv #rick chow #murder trial #stand your ground

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