Beyond: Two Souls with a Therapist: Part 3

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:01]Ah, hello friends and welcome to part three of Beyond Two Souls with a Therapist.

[00:00:10]It's great to have you here. Thanks for continuing to make this playth through part of your day, week, months, life, all that fun stuff. Leave a thumbs up to let me know you like it. Leave a comment to let me know what you learned or any other thoughts that you have. I do ask again that you not please just don't post comments that are about well here's what the other thing that happens is like I don't really care what the alternative paths are. We live with the ones that we take. Uh but I am glad to have you here. I'm glad that you're uh engaging this playthrough and I hope you continue to do so. So let's see what's going on here with Jody in the waiting room.

[00:00:54]Dear Dr. Whoever, thank you for your letter of March 20th at spring.

[00:01:08]See, this says something, but this might be easier to read.

[00:01:15]Maybe not. Man, why can't Why is that stuff unreadable?

[00:01:20]I don't like when that stuff is unreadable. All right.

[00:01:24]What's up, Jody?

[00:01:26]>> Stop it, Iden. It's your fault we're in trouble, so cut it out.

[00:01:31]>> He's replacing Dr. Matthews. He's the one who's going to be taking care of me from now on.

[00:01:37]>> He seems really nice.

[00:01:39]Go on. He wants to meet you.

[00:01:42]Go on, hurry up. I'll be right here.

[00:01:48]>> Man, I think I feel like it'd be better if she walked her there. It's not the terrible thing that she's not doing that, but like, you know, get up and walk your daughter there. Be the secure attachment.

[00:02:00]>> What's up, guy?

[00:02:02]>> Jody, he's waiting for you.

[00:02:11]>> Psychic energy lab. Purpose: Create a mathematical model constant with conservation of energy.

[00:02:22]The fact scientists cannot detect radio waves or other known means of dismission.

[00:02:41]Just either such a thing could not exist. It's done by some physical process unknown to science.

[00:02:51]Frontal lobe temporal. Okay, so you got the brain. A little question mark going on there. The white lady scene at Branchbrook Park.

[00:02:59]We're just going to get a little feel for the environment here.

[00:03:05]What's up, brother? What you reading?

[00:03:20]Jody just awkwardly sits there with All right. All right. I'll go.

[00:03:38]I love the mo cap on her. It's so good.

[00:03:40]Hello, Jody. Come in.

[00:03:48]My name is Nathan.

[00:03:50]Nathan Dawkins.

[00:03:52]I thought it would be a good idea for us to have a little chat, get to know each other a little better.

[00:03:58]That is if it's okay with you, of course.

[00:04:04]At a boy. Good. Now, I will say this.

[00:04:10]If you're going to say that, you know, this whole idea of like if it's okay with you, of course, you better mean it.

[00:04:19]Because if Jody says it's not okay with me, and he goes, "Uh, actually, too bad.

[00:04:23]You got to sit with me." That's not good. So, if you're going to say if that's okay with you, of course, and Jod's like, "I actually am not really vibing with it." The best way you could build rapport with her in this scenario would be for him to then get say, "Okay, that's understandable." get up and go to mom and say, "Hey, she's not in a place to do it right now. Let's try it again later." And then say something to Jod like, "All right, let's try it again tomorrow or whatever." If you actually mean it. Because like when you lie to kids about their autonomy and then you take it away from them, that's pretty that you don't do you don't build trust with them when you do that.

[00:05:02]University of Red Yeah, whatever, dude. I'll sit down.

[00:05:12]>> Jody, my job is to study strange events and then try to explain them like the things that happen around you.

[00:05:28]Right, Journey?

[00:05:37]Your mother tells me you have an invisible friend.

[00:05:45]>> I think she probably would stay silent here.

[00:05:49]>> I can understand if you don't want to talk about it, but if you did, I could help you figure it out.

[00:06:01]this friend.

[00:06:04]Has he been with you a long time?

[00:06:07]>> Okay, so that was good. I I This is I I have to give credit where credit's due here to some of the writing here because these are the types of interactions that you could totally botch and make unrealistic and then it would drive me nuts um watching this. This is actually pretty good. So, um, when you're talking to a kid about stuff like this, you really have to be aware that you're talking to a kid. And he is obviously highly academic about this stuff.

[00:06:43]But he has like a six-year-old child sitting in front of him who likely is likely is experiencing distress around this, but you don't even know for sure because you don't know her. And one of the worst ways to engage a kid in that's like this old, really anybody, but like a kid that's this old in a foreign context like this, is to come off as if you know her and you know what she's going through. Like that is that's not going to feel good for the kid because you're a stranger.

[00:07:18]So him feeling this out and and saying things in very simple language about that she can understand about like I I my job is to figure stuff out that's weird and you got some weird [ __ ] going on and your mom told me this. Soon as he says your mom told me you have an invisible friend. Jody knows he knows something. Now she's not making all these calculations. Just to be very clear like a kid's not going to be sitting here making these calculations.

[00:07:42]I'm talking more about how you want to handle this if you're him as if you're an adult cuz I'm guessing there's not any children watching me right now.

[00:07:50]So, what he's doing is he's feeling this out properly. He's he's engaging her in simple language. He's acknowledging that he knows that there's some stuff going on. He is not making too many assumptions about her experience of it.

[00:08:05]But he does say, "If you want to talk about it with me, I can help you figure it out." which may or may not be true, but that's cool. But then the way that he handles this is really nice. Instead of taking her silence and going completely verbatim on, okay, well, I'm just going to, I guess, acknowledge that it's not here, he starts asking open-ended questions about it in a just very nice, simple, conversational way.

[00:08:32]And that's to engage a child like this is a great way to get them to start talking because he goes, "So, well, you know, so when this thing like talks to you, does it to you? Does it talk to you or uh you know, geez, when it's uh when it does something you don't like, how is that?" Because kids still don't really possess the adeptness in interpersonal exchanges to like overread this and try to figure out where he's going. Like Jody is not sitting here going, "Okay, what's his angle?" Okay, he works for a university or he works for the government and the government has an agenda and that agenda can that be is that an agenda that can be trusted? I don't know. I watch a lot of Fox News. I mean, like then you you sit there and you start trying to deflect and play chess.

[00:09:19]Jody ain't playing chess here.

[00:09:23]Jody's not really even playing checkers.

[00:09:25]Jo Jod is taking the items out of the box if you want to use like a developmental metaphor for this. And so you handle it this way. And I just I really like the way that he's dealing with this. He seems he has a child himself as you can see in the picture.

[00:09:41]I'm assuming this is his child and his the baby mama on the photo on his desk.

[00:09:46]So he probably has some experience talking with children. You can see it.

[00:09:48]And this is written well. I I have to give credit to how he's navigating this and how this was written because he it would make sense that Jody might open up a little bit here. I'll be interested to see how Aiden or Iden uh reacts to this since you were born.

[00:10:13]>> Is he a ghost?

[00:10:20]I it's fine. I I don't have a huge critique here, but like he's getting intense now, which the reason I'm pausing this so much is because the way he was going about this was good, right? He got a nod from Jod, which means you're getting in there.

[00:10:42]So now you don't want to get more intense.

[00:10:49]You don't want to make this about you, which he's probably doing a little bit because he's he's I'm sure he's freaking out and getting all nerdy. Yeah, exactly right. His science brain is taking over.

[00:11:01]He's getting nerdy about this. He's like, "Oh my god, I got a Yes. Oh, here it is. I have everything. I I wrote a dissertation about this. This is my whole academic life. I can get an R1.

[00:11:13]Like he's you hijacked by all that stuff. So you got to be mindful here.

[00:11:16]You're still engaging with a child. So what you do is you stay casual because this is what was working.

[00:11:22]It was working that you were casual and you're just like being in real conversation about it. Doesn't freak me out. I can talk about it like it's nothing. Everybody else in your life talks about it like it's the scariest damn thing ever.

[00:11:35]And so his building intensity here around it is not good. Probably because Jod's going to feel a level of defensiveness for Iden and doesn't know if she can trust him. And that intensity as she starts to let the guard down may go okay, but I wouldn't I wouldn't be putting chips on it. So he needs to be careful because as soon he says it a ghost. You're getting intense, brother.

[00:12:02]First of all, this mean like asking that question means that Jody understands what a ghost is relative to the way that you understand what a ghost is. That's not great. Asking that level of closedended question about something that's really subjective in a lot of ways is not going to be helpful. He would have been better off instead of coming forward. He'd have been better off either like laying back, dropping down, you know, getting a little bit more on her level, softening, saying, "Oh, man.

[00:12:31]He's been around a long time."

[00:12:34]Uh, what what's he what's he like? Have you ever seen him?

[00:12:41]And we all see different thing. I'm sure people have thought like like you just you get very conversational about it and you read her body language and you feel her out.

[00:12:49]Adults hijack [ __ ] like this all the time because they get way too far into their adult brains. They they get too sucked into their interests >> or a spirit of someone who passed away.

[00:13:08]>> I've made my point, but like don't feel it out this way. Ask her to describe it.

[00:13:12]You got a lot of time to do the science here, dude. Open-ended questions going to go a long way.

[00:13:24]Can you draw him for me? There you go, Ada boy.

[00:13:40]And she's got the like scratches on her arms. Holy [ __ ] probably best that he doesn't ask about that. He's not a therapist. So, if you're sitting here going, "Well, god, she's got scratches on her arms. He should be You don't necessarily need to inquire about that." Um, which it sounds a little bit weird, I'm sure, to hear me say, but you don't know necessarily where those are from or what they are, and he's kind of got to stay in his lane on this. He's like, "Oh, scratches." because it may make Jod upset. Like you she you're you're getting her to lean in here and you want to take that for what it is.

[00:14:18]You kids in general when they start to give you something particular if they're reserved, you don't want to step on the gas. You want to just keep that accelerator going exactly the way that it's been going. You do not want to put more juice into it.

[00:15:03]Oh, that's cool.

[00:15:05]>> Mind if I take a look?

[00:15:06]>> Nice.

[00:15:17]I genuinely I can't emphasize enough how important that was. His respect of her vulnerability is massive here.

[00:15:31]Not because Jod understands all of this, but because he does. She made that drawing and he has the insight to look at that and say she chose to do that for me on request.

[00:15:45]I'm going to allow her the ownership of that drawing and recognize the vulnerability of this and ask permission to look at it. That is awesome. So many people in this scenario would just grab the drawing as if they're entitled to it because she's a kid and she drew it and I'm the adult here and I know what No, him slow playing that and asking for permission. It's it's a absolute acknowledgement of the fact of like, hey, Jody, I'm not a person who's going to just try to control you here. I respect you and I respect that this is vulnerable and you don't know me and so you you might say like I like I appreciate you letting me look at it like I wanted you don't have to say like I wanted to make sure I asked because I want to resp.

[00:16:29]when he says to her, "You mind if I take a look?" It's it's a tiny little nod to her autonomy here. Because if she draws it and she looks at it and she starts to feel a speck of vulnerability and she goes, "Actually, no." And she takes the drawing away, that's fine. That's fine.

[00:16:43]You've hit some sort of limit. There's a vulnerability there. It's all feedback.

[00:16:47]It's all information. You don't take it personally. But to act like there's a sense of entitlement around that, way too many adults do that with kids. And it's what makes kids feel like they don't they can't interface with their environment. in a meaningful way because everything's owned by the adults and you can take it away at any time or if I do this thing then he's not this is a great example of not stepping on the gas and it's beautiful genuinely beautiful I would if I was behind the observation window on this I would be jumping up and down for joy it's fantastic so this thing is your friend and he's connected to you with some kind of cord.

[00:17:35]>> Ask her to describe it, right? We talked about this. God, man, we're just every Ask her to describe it. So, Jody. Okay.

[00:17:43]So, I see a I see this figure and it looks like it's attached to a little girl. Who is this? Like, can you describe this for me? And if she says if she shrugs her shoulders, then you can start taking a shot. But ask her to describe it. What he's doing is not bad by any means, but if you want to take this to the next level, engage her around it.

[00:18:03]>> Is he here right now?

[00:18:05]>> Ooh, nice.

[00:18:10]>> Can you tell him to do something?

[00:18:12]>> Oh, buddy, don't encroach on this.

[00:18:19]Well, maybe he'll show up later after we get to know each other a little better, right?

[00:18:27]>> Nice.

[00:18:30]>> Careful.

[00:18:30]>> Did Did he do that to you?

[00:18:40]>> No, that was the monsters.

[00:18:47]You better stay level here, bud.

[00:18:53]Oh, I want No. Let's have a conversation about that. NO.

[00:19:00]OH, come on.

[00:19:09]Boo.

[00:19:12]That's so important. You wouldn't end the inquiry there. I get that is probably a device that's used to push the plot along, but oh, come on. We were doing so good when he laser beamed on the arms. He's got to be careful. I want to see how he handles that when she says, "No, it wasn't. It was the monsters." Again, if he can play that, cool. It's huge. He's like, "Oh, the monsters.

[00:19:42]That sounds scary, especially if they're able to do that to you. Can you tell me about you? I appreciate that you told me about Iden. Would Would you be willing to tell me about the monsters? Would you maybe be willing to draw those? That seems really scary that they could do that to you. You take it seriously if you're in his p if you're in his space.

[00:20:05]I have to imagine when you see scars like that on a trailer, it completely changes the question dynamic. It doesn't have to. At least not in a way that is readily apparent to the child.

[00:20:14]Um, yes it does, but not in the ways that people think. So if if a child has bruises and markings, oh god, I got to be really careful about how I talk about this because it's a ridiculously complicated thing.

[00:20:36]um you don't automatically assume that it's because they're being subjected to abuse, but you also don't assume that it isn't.

[00:20:49]What you do as a therapist is your your antenna go up and you make a mental note of it and when you start asking other so he's not a therapist so it's not his responsibility to ask but if he was a therapist your antenna go up and you ask other questions that invite the opportunity to see patterns that may or may not indicate that what happened is related to abuse. Kids are not good at holding on to a giant long messy story that is gonna hold, you know, the abuser safe. Like genu like generally if you ask the right questions around these things, you're going to get an answer because kids can't keep their story straight if they're trying to make a story or they'll eventually just tell you like the truth in their own way.

[00:21:52]The worst thing that you can do as a like professional or even really as an adult if you see something like this is freak out and get super intense because when you do that you freak the kid out and now the kid doesn't understand why this there's this raise of intensity. But if they realize it's because of like whatever markings or whatever, what they're not g a kid is generally not going to go, "Oh, thank God you're taking this as seriously as nobody else is, cuz I've been wanting to talk about how dad's been hitting me with a belt for the last like that's not how this is going to go. What the kid's going to probably do is freak out and be like, the fact that you saw this and then you freaked out means I need to ensure that you don't see it.

[00:22:39]like I'm gonna wear long sleeves next time or I'm gonna whatever. Like you you got to be really really careful not to jump the intensity of that. You feel it out. You're casual. You you act unaffected by it. You talk about it in the way that you might talk about something else, right? You you you get comfortable with the kid and then maybe you say something like, you know, I see those scratches on your arms like where where did those come from? And see what the kid says. And then if the kids's like, "Oh, I was, you know, I was playing on the playground and I fell."

[00:23:12]You go, "Okay." You can ask more questions about it without being like, "I doubt that. Sure, it wasn't your dad." You go like, "Oh, like what what were you doing when you fell?"

[00:23:23]And if the kid actually fell at the playground, they're going to answer those questions without any problem. If the kid is bing at your follow-up questions that you're asking very conversationally in the same way that you would ask them if the kid fell at the playground, a kid very easy, very quickly you're going to start to realize, oh, okay, so it's not because you fell at the playground.

[00:23:44]And then you start using a bit of what you know about assessment as a therapist that I'm not going to go too far into right now because I I want to get through more of the game. But then you that's when you can start digging a little bit. But you it changes your questioning so that you do an assessment to get information you need to get. But the kid should not feel a shift in that tone of the conversation at all.

[00:24:07]If that makes sense.

[00:24:16]It's an art.

[00:24:20]Oh, this is brutal.

[00:24:32]It won't be for long.

[00:24:36]>> Just long enough for them to find out what's going on.

[00:24:38]>> Please don't leave me here.

[00:24:41]>> Just for a couple of days.

[00:24:44]You'll see. Time will go by fast.

[00:24:46]>> Susan, we need to go. There's no reason to drag this out.

[00:24:52]God. Oh, brother. Oh, gosh.

[00:25:00]All right. We're have a little conversation about Philillip in a minute here, but uh All right. This is brutal for everybody.

[00:25:13]For everybody. Buddy, can you please pick a spot?

[00:25:18]This is brutal for everybody.

[00:25:21]Um, we'll start with Jody, if these are your attachment figures and they are who have been consistent, reliable, and stable for you and they have been the ones that have been meeting your needs, which is likely what they are.

[00:25:45]Having your proximity to these people and their availability severed is immensely distressing from an attachment standpoint.

[00:25:56]Jod will survive this. She will be fine.

[00:26:00]But in this moment, it is going to really suck. Even if they're not the best parents ever, like even if they're mediocre, this is brutal because kids need stability and familiarity and routine.

[00:26:18]And this is an unbelievable disruption to all of those things.

[00:26:25]That said, it doesn't mean we don't do this. Like there are time, one of the hard things about being a parent is that there are times where you have to make decisions that your kids are not going to like because you know it's in their best interest and you know they're just going to have to deal with the distress.

[00:26:41]Doesn't mean you have to be a dick when it happens. Doesn't mean you have to go there, well because I know better. But it there are times you have to do that.

[00:26:47]It's like when you have a when you have a pet, right? My cats don't want to go to the vet. They don't want to get in the cage and go in the car and go to the vet. They don't want to do that. But we got to go get your teeth cleaned, buddy, because I don't want you to have rotten teeth and infections.

[00:27:05]So, you're going to meow and you're going to hate yourself and you're going to get angry at me and that's fine. Uh, like because I know that what I'm doing is in your best interest. It's the same thing with children. Like there are times where you have to do things with children that they're not going to like. I think one of the issues that you see um from like a generational standpoint with a lot of millennial parents is their distress tolerance for this type of thing is very low. Uh and you'll see sometimes where parents won't make good decisions on behalf of their kids because their kids are distressed even though it's what's best for their kids and will make bad decisions as a result of that. So, if you're a parent or if you're a new parent, you need to be mindful of this that like just because your kid is distressed about something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it or doesn't mean you should back off of it if you know it's in their best interest to put them in a position to have to do this. I actually could make an argument that having Jody go into a residential treatment like this because of what she's dealing with, which is outside our realm of understanding of reality, is a completely understandable thing. Makes a lot of sense. probably necessary in some ways but really sucks first and foremost for Jody, second probably for mom and uh distant third obviously for Philillip.

[00:28:23]So acknowledging to your daughter that this is hard and then digging deep into your own distress tolerance to recognize that it's not your respon it's not your child's responsibility to make you feel better about the fact that you're doing something very difficult here is paramount for this situation.

[00:28:47]So stop. So it's like Please don't make me stay here. You You Jody, I know this sucks. If I was you, I wouldn't want to stay here either. I I'm sure you're going to you're going to be upset with us for making you do this. I can totally understand that. This is really tough.

[00:29:15]We will be available to you in the ways that we can. Some of what she said is great, right? Like it's only going to be a couple days. It's going to go faster than you think, but these are all platitudes that aren't going to really sink in meaningfully for your kid. Like, it's not going to make Jody feel better right now. But that's okay. Some of this is just this has to suck for Jody.

[00:29:37]So, enter Philillip, whose way of coping with this, if he is in any way distressed by it, is to distance himself. Basically, no reason to blabber this science experiment. We're let's uh let's get out of here. The sentiment itself is actually not bad, right? Like eventually you do have to get up and leave. You do have to go. You do have to subject your daughter to this if you've chosen to do this. You know, I mean, you could also take her out of there, but then you you're going to take her out of here and not do this, then you better be willing to deal with Iden. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. You can't take your kid out of here because she doesn't want to be here and then be a dick to her about the fact that this paranormal thing is happening. So, you either have to put her in here and then be empathetic to how horrible this is for her and be as available as possible knowing that you're dealing with the Iden issue or take her home and deal with Iden. You don't get to take her home and then not deal with Iden. It's not part of the cards. And this is one of the things I as a therapist have to say to parents all the time. Like, you can't have your cake and eat it too. So, take your What do you want? You want to bail out of this and then keep dealing with this? Then you don't you don't get to [ __ ] about it. Or do you want to do the hard thing and change the behavior and be distressed for a little while and then come out the other side not dealing with the issue that you were dealing with when you came in here? Take your pick.

[00:30:53]People don't love that, but it's the reality of it. So, what mom's doing here is okay so long as she doesn't expect Jod to manage her emotion around this.

[00:31:01]Philip would do well, I think in particular, to also get on this level and say, "Yeah, I get it. You know, I know this is he can believe that belaboring this is a problem. But again, you don't make it about you as the adult. You make it about your kid. Yeah, Jody, this this sucks. You know, me and your mom, we've made this decision and it was a hard decision to make because we really love you and we want you to be at home, but we also want to get this figured out and we can't figure it out.

[00:31:26]These are the people that can help you.

[00:31:28]And so, we'll be available for calls and stuff like this. We'll be back in a couple days. We're not leaving without we're not we're not leaving you here forever. Um, we love you and we realize this sucks and we also see this as being the best thing for you. If he could get on our level and do that took what, 15 seconds for me to say that, not, hey, let's warm up the car and get the [ __ ] out of here, man. We don't need to blavor this. That that sends a terrible message to your daughter. Sends a terrible message to your wife and is just genuinely not helpful.

[00:32:00]And I get he's distressed. He wants out of this. He doesn't want to be dealing with it. He's probably scared.

[00:32:05]I can empathize with that, but the way you engaged here is harmful for your kid.

[00:32:14]>> Be brave, darling.

[00:32:17]>> You're strong.

[00:32:19]>> I know you're strong.

[00:32:34]Keep walking. Keep walking. Yep. If you're going to go, you got to go. There you go.

[00:32:44]I know it's hard leaving your home and your family, but here we have a better chance of understanding what's happening. We can find a way to protect you.

[00:32:58]Nobody can protect me.

[00:33:11]Oh. Oh, man.

[00:33:17]Oh. Oh, the mo cap on this is so good.

[00:33:24]He probably should have left it at we know this is hard to leave your family and we're going to try to get this figured out. But then focus on the thing that matters most. The thing like this is where you have to take kids seriously and like take a second to to to understand their perspective on things.

[00:33:44]For Jodie, the most distressing thing in her life right now is this immediate moment. It's not Iden.

[00:33:54]For her parents, it's Iden.

[00:33:57]Maybe for Mr. Nathan, it is, but it's not the number one issue for Jod.

[00:34:06]They're not here because Jod said to her parents, "I need to talk to somebody about this." They're here because her parents brought her here.

[00:34:16]So, if you're Nathan and this girl's parents just walked out and she is going to be in a new environment that is completely sterile right now.

[00:34:27]Your main concern is to empathize with her and say, "How about we make this space more comfortable? This room sucks.

[00:34:36]Let's figure out a way to make this room Jod's room. How's that sound? Give her some direct control in a moment where all of her control has been stripped away. Make it about her. You'll get her buy in on the back end of this. But if you treat this as like, you know, the paramount reason that we're here is because you're dealing with a paranormal thing and we're going to get that figured out, Jody. We're going to protect you. her saying nobody can protect me is less of a I realize it's in like a creepy six sense kind of thing, but like it's more about her being I think probably defensive about like that's not my problem right now.

[00:35:19]I've resigned myself to this thing being around me. My problem right now is my parents just left the room and they're dropped me off here for multiple days with people I don't know in a room that has absolutely nothing familiar to it to me. That's my problem. So you attend to the immediiacy of that problem for the child and then you start to get their buy in on things. But he has to be the one. He has to be the impetus for this.

[00:35:44]A thing you're going to a pattern you are going to hear throughout this entire playthrough from me is that you as the adult are responsible for understanding all of this stuff. You are the one that is responsible for keeping all of this in mind because your kid's not going to do that. All Jody cares about right now is I drew a picture. I told him about Hiden and now my parents bailed on me.

[00:36:05]So, is do I if I the more I talk about Iden, the more do I get locked into this dungeon? Like, what's the deal? You have to attend to her right now. Make it about her and her immediate moment and the problems that she's dealing with, not about the stuff that, you know, it's my job and my it's my creed to figure out the paranormal. Like, nobody gives a [ __ ] about that right now. Nathan, you got a little girl sitting in a sterile room without her parents.

[00:36:29]>> Your belongings are in that bag over there. Cole and I are right next door.

[00:36:35]If you need anything or if anything's wrong, just call and look to them right away.

[00:36:40]Buddy. Okay.

[00:36:43]Oh god.

[00:36:46]Jesus. This is really hard for me. No.

[00:36:51]No. Hey, your parents just bailed. We're going to bail, too. We'll be right here.

[00:36:56]It's putting too much responsibility on her. Too much. Hey, your shit's in that bag. Take it out. Put it wherever you want. We'll be over here. No, no.

[00:37:08]You're making so many assumptions about what Jody wants or needs here.

[00:37:15]He says, "Let's figure, you know, let's grab your stuff. Hey, we got a room that's got a bunch of decorations in it.

[00:37:21]How about when you get your stuff out of the bag, which I can help you do, you let me know. Do you want me to leave the room or do you want me to be here with you?

[00:37:30]I'm willing to do either one. How about after we get your bag unpacked, we'll go over to the decoration room. You can pick some stuff out that you want to use to make this room a lot more yours.

[00:37:40]That kind of stuff, man. Or yeah, like let's have a we're going to have like a tea party or a pizza party or something.

[00:37:48]Me and Cole are going to we're going to go grab some pizza. We eat some pizza.

[00:37:50]You want some pizza? We'll eat it in here. like start making some good associations with this space for him to just be like, "All right, yeah, that sucks. Your parent left. Uh, we're going to leave, too. Call me if you need me."

[00:38:05]You can't just tell people, particularly children, that you're reliable. You have to show them. You have to show them that you take them seriously. You have to show them that you're that you understand them. You You can't just say to a kid, "I'm reliable. I'll be here.

[00:38:22]They're going to look at you like, "I don't know that.

[00:38:26]I don't know that." Adults won't even look at you that way generally.

[00:38:31]Like, okay, yeah, sure. Thank you for being the proxy for me even having to be here. I wouldn't even be here if you didn't exist.

[00:38:40]This is how the kid's thinking about it.

[00:38:43]because of you and your little experiments and your little knowhow about whatever the hell's going on for me. My parents just bailed on me and I have to sit in this freaking room without a window or what? Like it just you you are responsible for making this comfortable for her. You don't have to overdo it and put it all on her, but get yourself involved here rather than leaving the room, dude.

[00:39:08]>> Good night, Jody.

[00:39:10]Oh my god.

[00:39:12]Good night, Jody. Sleep tight.

[00:39:18]Jesus. Terrible. Terrible.

[00:39:22]Absolutely horrible.

[00:39:39]This is not the type of environment you leave a kid this age in and then it expect them to just figure it out by themselves with all this stress. This is seriously like my blood pressure is high right now watching this. She's a goddamn video game character. And I'm sitting here like, "Oh my god, if I was running this place, I would lose my mind if I found out that this happened.

[00:40:09]Absolutely would lose my mind." And if you're sitting here watching this going, "Well, Dr. Mick, what are they supposed to do? They they got a job to do, man.

[00:40:17]Can't she just suck it up?" No.

[00:40:21]If your job is to work with children or children are a component of how you're going to do your job, you better [ __ ] think about this stuff. Like I don't have a lot of empathy for adults that treat children this way.

[00:40:40]Like if if if you're going to invite children into your life, you damn well better be prepared to treat them the way that they need to be treated. Jody didn't ask to exist.

[00:40:51]This is act genuinely I'm I'm so passionate about this. This is genuinely why I do not have a child in real life and will never have a child because I know what it takes to have to show up for a kid in a meaningful way and I don't want to do it. So I've decided with my wife I don't want kids because I don't want to do this stuff.

[00:41:15]I don't want to have to be this attentive to to a child. I don't want to have to cultivate all these things in my own personal life. So, I don't bring a kid into it because it wouldn't be fair to them. If you're going to work in a context where children are available, you it is your responsibility to respond to them in a meaningful way and understand what their needs are because the kid doesn't know. The kid didn't ask to be here. It's she she she has no autonomy to do anything about this in any kind of meaningful way and this is this is going to create absolute chaos in her head and all sorts of problems if it's not handled properly. So I don't give a [ __ ] what you have to do for the rest of your day, Nathan. cancel your goddamn plans for the next two hours and make damn sure that this girl feels some sense of control over this space that she just got dumped in by her parents.

[00:42:11]That's your responsibility right now.

[00:42:13]Because if you don't do this, she's not going to participate meaningfully. She's not going to just she's not going to knock on your door and go, "Uh, Nathan, uh, I'd like to talk about Iden now."

[00:42:25]Nope. What you've really done, because she already acknowledged that Iden's with her, what you've really done is increased her alliance with Iden and she's probably going to be more protective of Iden because Iden is going to be the consistent entity that's with her throughout all of the distress of this. Parents bailed on me. Nathan just walked out of here. You know who hasn't left? Iden.

[00:42:49]And so when people are telling me that they want to protect me from Iden because they don't understand it and they hear monsters and they don't really do anything with it, I don't want you to protect me from Iden because Iden's the one thing that has transcended every context and adversity that I've ever been through. Iden still shows up.

[00:43:08]So I'm going to protect him with my life because all of you are handling this poorly.

[00:43:14]So th this stuff like I when I like when I worked doing all of these observations of children, the place that I worked in was amazing about this. They would recognize some of the distress the kids were feeling unless we were very specifically observing distress upon an adult leaving the room, which was done in a very controlled way.

[00:43:36]The responsiveness of adults to children in this capacity where they're in like a foreign environment until they habituate to it has to be consistent and reliable and warm and on their level and understanding of what their desires are and respectful of their autonomy and all these sorts of things.

[00:43:53]You know, this is why you do things like let a kid decorate their locker however they want, letting them, you know, have a a name tag that they designed on their desk. Why you like you give kids the capacity to do this and then they they feel more involved with their environment and like they have control over it which is something that all of us want to some degree but kids have such an inductive basic understanding of that like I just you involve yourself in decorating this room.

[00:44:25]You involve you show her I care about you and I like I'm not going to say I want to protect you from this. It's like, let's this is an environment you're going to be in. Let's get it set up properly for you.

[00:44:38]I want this to be a place that you feel good about.

[00:44:43]It's your room, not our room. It's your room now.

[00:44:48]And after I leave, after we get it decorated, you know, there might be some times that we pop in, but by and large, I'm going to knock before I come in. I'm going to respect that this is your space. You start having those conversations.

[00:45:04]Kids are not lab rats.

[00:45:10]Just it's really hard for me to watch, man. And there are people that do. There are people that work in work with children and do like experiments with children that become somewhat distant and callous about the children they work with. And I I don't have a lot of respect for that. There was a professor at Virginia Tech that comes to mind in particular.

[00:45:27]>> Time, Jody. Your pajamas are on the couch.

[00:45:30]>> All right.

[00:45:32]Find somewhere to change.

[00:45:34]>> Oh, hello Joe. This is me on the loudspeaker telling you it's time for bed even though it's sunny outside.

[00:45:43]Jesus. Oh, man. Gh.

[00:45:49]Time to find somewhere to change clothes. Now, this said, all of this said, children aren't super fragile in a way. Like I it makes it sound like children are ridiculously fragile. Jod will figure this out. Kids are resourceful. Kids are kids are strong.

[00:46:03]They are resilient. Jod will figure out how to make this work for herself because she has to. She's she's got to survive the space. So just because everybody's bailing on her doesn't mean that she's going to wilt and die. It just means that you're probably going to start cultivating a sense of self-reliance where she's going to be like, you know what, nobody shows up for me. I don't trust that people are going to attend to me the way that I need to.

[00:46:25]So I know who I can rely on. It's myself.

[00:46:29]And what that turns into down the line, if you watch my attachment lecture, is uh I when I'm distressed, I don't turn to people. I turn to myself. I become incredibly self-reliant. I only trust myself. I ain't going to give you any quarter. We get we we get in an argument or we have a tiff or I got some challenges going on. I ain't going to open up to anybody else because I can't trust that they're going to meet my needs. They're probably going to bail on me. So, I'll figure it out myself.

[00:46:57]That's fine. Bet. I'll figure it out myself. You have enough of these experiences, that's what starts happening for a kid. And it's amazing how early on kids learn that stuff.

[00:47:07]But this is how you get dismissive attachment in adulthood.

[00:47:22]>> Hope they haven't put cameras in here, too.

[00:47:26]>> Yeah, no kidding.

[00:47:36]God.

[00:47:40]Okay, so got the PJs on.

[00:47:53]Get my stuffy.

[00:47:56]Thank God I have that.

[00:47:58]>> Come on, Bunny. Let's see where we're going to sleep tonight.

[00:48:12]It's a video game. You can't think of everything. I don't expect everybody to think of everything.

[00:48:20]But I have to imagine Jod's parents bring her in for an intake. They start telling Nathan what's going on.

[00:48:29]There's no way they didn't talk about what happens at night.

[00:48:35]This happens at night. The monsters show up. She gets freaked out. She wakes up from nightmares. We deal with this stuff at night.

[00:48:46]So, okay, bedtime.

[00:48:49]If you know that this is a time that is traditionally incredibly stressful for her and when this stuff shows up and now she's in a new environment and you've heard her specifically say that Iden's here again, how do you not engage her in a conversation about like, "Hey, Jody, you know, we know nights have been tough and now we know that you're in a you're in a new space."

[00:49:13]Um, what what can we do to, you know, is there anything that we need to be mindful of or anything we can do to to make this space more comfortable for you to sleep in given that, you know, nighttime's been a struggle?

[00:49:26]What do you need? I see you got you got bunny gruff, you got a flashlight. What else can we provide? Are you even ready to go to bed?

[00:49:35]You just like how you just say, "Okay, now let's immediately go to bed."

[00:49:41]It it it it this is just wild, dude.

[00:49:52]So either, you know, it's probably that it's a video game and you're not going to come up with everything. But if this was real life, I'm looking at this going, "What the hell kind of assessment did you do here?"

[00:50:04]She packed a stuffed animal and a flashlight. That should tell you a lot of stuff.

[00:50:09]Let's figure out where to sleep tonight.

[00:50:13]Where do we feel most safe under this table?

[00:50:24]She Okay, so she she knows she's being observed, which is also intense. Like, oh, they got cameras everywhere.

[00:50:34]Doesn't even feel like nighttime.

[00:51:06]I'm going to turn off the light now.

[00:51:08]Good night, Jodie.

[00:51:09]>> Wait, >> can you leave the light on in the hall?

[00:51:15]I don't like it when it's dark. Sure.

[00:51:19]How's that?

[00:51:23]>> Good.

[00:51:24]>> Good night.

[00:51:27]>> Night.

[00:51:34]Oh my god.

[00:51:40]What are we What are we doing?

[00:51:44]What are we doing?

[00:52:01]Cole, ask her. Jody, I realize it might be a little bit weird to talk to me or hear me talk via this microphone. Would you rather me talk to you like this or would you rather me pop in and and see you in person at night like this?

[00:52:16]I just it would I it this just wouldn't be hard to do that.

[00:52:21]And if she says to you comms are fine, then great. If she says I'd like you to come in here, please, then please do it.

[00:52:29]Love God do it.

[00:52:34]But jeez, what a horrible experience to have as a child. I mean, this genuinely >> Don't be afraid, Eden. We're going to have a good night's sleep and nothing is going to happen.

[00:52:49]>> So, she feels some sense of responsibility for taking care of Iden even. I mean, she also has I mean, she's doing a little kid version of like kind of projecting fear onto Iden, which I don't really need to get too far into the weeds on, but that it's kind of sweet, right? Like she's she's have she's going through it right now with this and she still feels some sense of wanting to care for Iden. Probably gives her some sense of control and power here.

[00:53:13]cuz she's got like none.

[00:53:24]How you would be able I just Oh god, I can't sleep. Iden, I think I need a story.

[00:54:34]Oh, what do we got here? Is this the Indiana Pacers?

[00:54:39]Oh, no. It's Is that Xavier and like West Virginia?

[00:55:04]We got Xavier.

[00:55:07]>> Got to be West Virginia, right? Maybe I'm wasting so much time trying to figure this out. But okay, so that's the loop that it's on. That's awesome. I think that's cool that they have that in there.

[00:55:35]What's in the microwave?

[00:55:42]We have the shampoo dispenser outside of the shower. Interesting.

[00:56:16]Huh?

[00:56:46]Good job staying up on your observations here, Cole. Oh boy.

[00:56:52]>> Oh [ __ ] >> Get help. Iden quick.

[00:57:01]Jesus, dude.

[00:57:04]Hey, buddy. Wake up.

[00:57:08]What the Holy hell, dude.

[00:57:48]Cole, let's get to work, huh, bud?

[00:58:14]Yeah, don't worry about it, Cole. Don't even try to go in there, bud.

[00:58:21]>> I've got Jody.

[00:58:24]Get a doctor. Hurry.

[00:58:30]>> It's okay. It'll be all right now.

[00:58:34]Hiden isn't scared of them anymore.

[00:58:45]>> Yeah, we'll be right around the corner.

[00:58:47]We'll protect you.

[00:59:22]I mean, look, some of this, right, we we have to deal with the paranormal element of this, which is not realistic.

[00:59:31]So, I'm not I Nobody's got their a kid in there getting rooms trashed with TVs and their kid thrown around by paranormal objects. So, this part of it doesn't really feel relevant. Like, the part that's relevant to this to me is just how poorly set up this is.

[00:59:50]Like genuinely, if I I I don't know how much more I can blavorver this point that this is just horribly poor structure to put around a child, let alone anybody.

[01:00:10]You know, people talk about how annoyed they get with dealing with red tape that makes things difficult.

[01:00:20]And sometimes this is how it has to be.

[01:00:22]Like if you have a certain standard for if we're going to have people that are at this place that are dealing with this that's going to be distressing to them, we have heavy protocols in place to try to ensure their safety and comfort. And you can roll your eyes all you want because these are people that you know it's not your own daughter. You can depersonalize it. You can separate yourself because this is what we do with humans that we don't have close personal relationships with. I mean, it's easy to objectify people that you don't know personally, but if you're an academic and you're doing human subjects research and you just decide to set [ __ ] up like this, it's just terrible. Like, this is just a horrible environment. To me, the better analog for this is like if she was at home and you're going to you're going to say things about how responsive you're going to be.

[01:01:09]This is why I say like saying to kids you're going to be responsive doesn't do [ __ ] It doesn't do anything. You have to show them. You have to show them that you are consistent and reliable, that you are able to meet their needs. That if you're not available and they make a bid for your assistance, you will respond. You have to show them that.

[01:01:32]If you are a person that expects children to give you the benefit of the doubt, you're engaging children wrong.

[01:01:38]You earn the benefit of the doubt with children.

[01:01:42]Adults, it's a little bit different, right? Like we can give people the benefit of the doubt because we understand how complicated things are and we have a general level of autonomy.

[01:01:51]But when you're talking about a kid, kid doesn't owe you the benefit of the doubt. Kid doesn't owe you trust. The kid doesn't have to feel safe off the bat just because you say, "Oh, I'm safe." No, no, no, no. And in the best case scenario, if you're a person that shows that a child that you're consistent, reliable, and that you'll meet their needs, you create a level of secure attachment that makes it easier for them to explore their environment autonomously as they get older because they've internalized that you're reliable. It's safer to explore because I know that I've got a backs stop. It's when kids don't have that internalized sense of consistency and reliability of their caregivers that they start to have to figure out the alternatives. I either have to look out for myself or I have to overly meet other people's needs in order to matter to them. That gets more in the anxious attachment. I have to make sure you're okay because then you'll make sure I'm okay.

[01:02:44]or it just gets so chaotic that you end up having what's called a chaotic attachment where it's just a push and pull and closess of distance are all over the place. Again, watch my attachment lecture. I'm not I'm not going to make this a secondary attachment lecture, but if you want to know more about what I'm talking about, you should go watch that. Uh here's the worstc case scenario of this and I hate that I have to talk about this but it's it's genuinely important I think because people will sometimes wonder like okay well how do kids get like abused by um you know people outside of the family or within the family or whatever. And it's because people there in that we're talking very small margins here but there are people that know how to use this to their advantage. people who adults that know how to groom children for trafficking or sexual abuse or whatever know exactly how to use this to their advantage. They if you look at grooming it's essentially being consistent, reliable, stable and incredibly attentive to the needs of a kid because then you create a safe you create safety and then the abuse violates that safety but it makes it very confusing for a child because they trust you but you hurt them and it's like wait a second I don't understand like this person understands you.

[01:03:59]They'll even make excuses for you in some ways because you've cultivated that sense of safety and stability.

[01:04:05]So people at their absolute worst that abuse children and adults will do this and it because it works. So you want to use it for good. You want to create the sense that you are the consistent reliable stable attachment figure because then your child won't seek it outside or won't get won't necessarily get I'm not talking about you know do this or else your kid's going to get sexually abused by a clergyman. Like I'm not saying that like but what I am saying is that kids become more susceptible to outside stability if you yourself don't show up.

[01:04:37]So this is like where teenagers become more reliant upon their like their peers instead of turning to you in times of adversity even though they really want to be you want to be the parent that your kid is willing to call when they're in the shitterter.

[01:04:50]Uh, and if you don't cultivate that, then they're not going to they're going to call their shitty friends or they're going to stay in a dangerous situation because they think they can handle it themselves or whatnot. Like, you can cultivate this stability as a parenting figure such that these other influences don't affect them in this way. But like that's how important these things are for kids.

[01:05:15]So, if there's nothing else you take away from watching this video and this episode, let it be that your reliability, consistency, stability, and willingness to get into a kid's mind and understand them and and engage them meaningfully and give them some sense of control in moments that they don't have it is deeply important to facilitating the well-being of your child.

[01:05:43]Jody is going to be, if I had to guess without without knowing where this game is going to go, if I had to guess what's going to happen here, uh, Jody is going to become highly self-reliant and secondarily reliant upon Iden. I'll bet you anything if this stays the way that it is, when Jod becomes an adult, she ain't going to need nobody. She's gonna very much be a I my emotional needs will not be met by anybody. I am in lock step with Iden and I don't trust people because I'm either being observed or used or seen as a proxy for X, Y, and Z.

[01:06:25]And it's going to create a level of independence that may actually be it may feel okay for Jod but may actually not be totally great because if she has certain level of relational needs, she's not going to have the skills or the trust to meet them because nobody in her life has been consistent and reliable enough to show her that that's something that's available to her except for herself. The one constant in my survival is me. And I she might uh you know depending on how long she's here, she might form some level of attachment to uh to like Nathan if he continues to respond somewhat well or they get this figured out and her parents come back and then you would have to teach her parents how to be responsive to her. Like that's is like this doesn't just go away because you figure out what Iden is and then send her home. And this is the big mistake that a lot of parents make when they send their kids to therapy.

[01:07:22]They think if you send your seven-year-old child to talk to a therapist by themselves, it's going to make a difference. No. Because as soon as your kid finishes that session and goes home, they go right back into an environment that's got a whole equilibrium that you continuously maintain. So, as a parent, if you want to see behavioral changes from your child, you have to be willing to cultivate a change in the system itself.

[01:07:40]And you are the biggest component of that. And this is why I genuin genuinely refuse to work with any kid that's under like 10 years old by themselves. Like absolutely not. I once in a while might talk to your kid, but as a parent, you damn well better be ready to get involved because if we are talking about some sort of change in behavior or we're trying to we're trying to make something happen, you have to be in lock step with this process and be willing to facilitate whatever that is in the environment at home. You have to be willing to change your reinforcement mechanisms. You have to be willing to set things up and respond in a way that's going to be meaningful for your kid because if you're not willing to do that, then it's not going to do anything or it's going to create wider gaps between your kid and you because they're seeing stuff happen in this context but not at home.

[01:08:29]You know, parenting and raising children is ridiculously difficult and there's a lot involved with it and it's relentless, but it's also what you sign up for when you bring kids into the world.

[01:08:41]You know, I'm glad that Nathan got into the room and is like holding her, but she's not. You'll notice she didn't move, right? Like she just let him do that, but she didn't like bury herself into him like, "Oh, thank God you're here, which from an observational standpoint already suggests that Jod is engaged in more of a self-reliance and looking at Iden. He's not scared of the monsters anymore.

[01:09:04]He just beat the [ __ ] out of him because you guys didn't.

[01:09:10]And so, yeah, you'd sit here and try to comfort me, but like I'm good, man. I've been dealing with this [ __ ] my whole life. My parents haven't shown up for me in this at all. They've been [ __ ] to me about it or they've negated it. You know, you said you're going to protect me. Said you're right on the other side of the wall. I just got thrown around the room. I'm battered and bruised. And then you show up and say, "Oh, everything's going to be okay.

[01:09:32]I can't rely on you. You didn't show up.

[01:09:41]And as the last point that I'm going to make here, um maybe I've talked about this already in the playthrough. I've talked about so many things I can't remember. I'm going to be redundant every once in a while. This is why uh the cry it out method. Actually, this is probably the best analog for this. Um, this is the video game paranormal equivalent of the cry it out method of sleep training. When your kid is like too young to understand what you're doing, a kid that's is the age of Jod, it's a little bit different. But this, if we took this as like a kid who's maybe up to say like three or four years old, probably like three years old or so, cry it out.

[01:10:23]especially for a newborn, like an infant up till like especially like to two years old is not good because when your kid wakes up in the middle of the night and they're distressed and they're crying, what they're trying to do is say, "I have a need that needs to be met." It's the equivalent of Jody getting thrown around the room like this. And if you don't show up as a parent when your kid is experiencing it, you're no different than Nathan and Cole here.

[01:10:48]Uh people like to talk about the cry it out method as well. Your kid has to learn how to self-regulate at some point and you have to learn how to deal with the distress of your kid being upset in the middle of the night and they have to learn how to get themselves back to bed.

[01:11:01]Not when they're super young. Your kid has to get to a point where they can conceptually understand that you're not responding to them for a reason. and they can understand that reason when they wake up in the middle of the night and are distressed and want you and you don't come in. If your kid does not conceptually understand that, then you are cultivating the same kind of response here that Nathan is resp.

[01:11:37]So, yes. Is it annoying to wake up multiple times in the middle of the night and go respond to your child?

[01:11:43]Absolutely. Does it make it harder for you to work in the morning because you're super tired? Absolutely. Is that what you signed up for because you're a parent? You bet your ass it is. So, I get kind of annoyed when people talk about doing sleep training by way of cry it out with like infants and one-year-olds and even two-year-olds because it's like your kid waking up distressed and you not responding isn't teaching them other anything other than you're not reliable. That's all that's all you're teaching them. That when they're distressed, you're not going to show up.

[01:12:18]It's not the only thing, right? like it gets counterbalanced like during the day and stuff, but you really need to be mindful of that of your responsiveness because this is what a you know a one-year-old is feeling this type of thing when they wake up super distressed in the middle of the night. This is what their experience is like, which is kind of why I like the way this is represented. So, consistency and reliability in your response to children is key.

[01:12:41]All right, we're at an hour and 12 minutes, and that feels fine for me to have this be a shorter episode. We talked about a lot of stuff. Uh, this is going to be slow bake throughout this playthrough. Um, so I'm going to end it here. Well, I'm rather air on the side of short rather than long. So, thanks for taking the time to watch episode 3.

[01:12:58]I hope you enjoyed it. Uh, there's so many things to talk about in this game.

[01:13:02]It's going to be outrageous. I genuinely think this is probably going to be the most nutrient-intens playthrough we do.

[01:13:08]I I just don't know how it can't be, especially with all this early child development stuff. So, I hope that listening to me is good. I I hope that you feel like you're learning something.

[01:13:19]And if you're a parent, it's really hard, but you got to do it. You got to show up. It's what you sign up for. If you don't think you can sign up for all the stuff I'm talking about, don't have a kid.

[01:13:31]Uh, all right. So, uh, if you like this video, leave a thumbs up, leave a comment down below. We'd love to hear your thoughts. If you're binging, click on the next video. And even if it's just to watch the first minute of it, it helps with the algorithm. Uh, if you can hype this, I don't know if it's even still a thing, do that. Those of you that financially support these streams, thank you very much for doing that. And, uh, if you're waiting for the next episode to come out, we'll get it out as soon as we can. Appreciate you all immensely. You matter. See you on the next one.