SNEAKO Interviews The Prime Minister of Malaysia | Anwar Ibrahim “PMX”

Añadido: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]I've heard a lot of great things about you.

[00:00:04]>> You've been here for some time now?

[00:00:05]>> I just arrived a few hours ago.

[00:00:11]Yeah, why do you think the United States has such a strong relationship with Israel? Because I just learned that Israelis are banned from visiting Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken.

[00:00:20]>> We do not recognize precisely because >> You don't recognize Israel as a state?

[00:00:25]>> Well, well, we do it's de facto, yes.

[00:00:27]>> Right.

[00:00:27]>> But but the issue is the justice continue. I mean, how do you recognize state that colonized the other states? I mean, effectively Palestine and Gaza have been colonized.

[00:00:39]>> Yes. You asked me why am I here? It's because right now, although Islam is a fast-growing religion in the world, we are more divided, I think, than we've ever been. And we don't have the same unity when all the same caliphate and then Sunni, Shia, they talk about Hanafi, Sufi, and the Arab states are they said that they're at war with Iran.

[00:00:56]And so right now, I think it's important, especially as an American, to come to your beautiful country, speak to someone like you, and find some unity.

[00:01:03]How do you think the the Muslim world, beyond just Malaysia, how could we find more unity right now?

[00:01:09]Today we're meeting with the Prime Minister of Malaysia, Anwar Ibrahim. So, it's a huge interview, and it's Friday prayer, we're going to go pray. Welcome to Malaysia.

[00:01:19]So, is it true is it true that they they ban Israelis from Malaysia?

[00:01:23]>> Yeah, sure. Of course.

[00:01:30]>> Oh, great.

[00:01:32]Oh.

[00:01:38]That's the car that I drove in Spain.

[00:01:40]So, we're out there in Mallorca with that BMW.

[00:01:51]Stay behind me. Stay behind me. Stay behind me.

[00:01:58]Yo, look at these kids, man.

[00:02:01]Look at the kids.

[00:02:04]Yeah.

[00:02:22]Right at the Adnan's aura. Right at the Adnan's aura.

[00:02:34]As-salamu alaykum. Great to meet you, Dato' Seri.

[00:02:37]Great to meet you. I've heard a lot of great things about you.

[00:02:40]>> You've been here for some time now?

[00:02:42]>> I just arrived a few hours ago.

[00:02:45]>> From?

[00:02:46]>> From New York.

[00:02:47]>> Oh, that's a long >> Long flight.

[00:02:50]Thank you for having me in your country.

[00:02:52]>> Thank you. Nice to meet you.

[00:02:54]As-salamu alaykum.

[00:02:54]>> Nice to meet you, brother.

[00:03:06]>> Join me at the >> I'd love to.

[00:03:08]Okay.

[00:03:12]What's up, bro?

[00:03:13]>> Big boss, bro.

[00:03:14]>> Are you Saudi?

[00:03:15]>> No, no, bro.

[00:03:15]>> What are you?

[00:03:16]>> Jordanian.

[00:03:16]>> A Jordanian?

[00:03:17]>> No, bro.

[00:03:18]>> As-salamu alaykum. Great to meet you.

[00:03:19]>> I'm Hamza.

[00:03:19]>> Hi, Hamza. How are you doing? Sorry.

[00:03:22]>> Can I get a picture, please?

[00:03:25]>> You got me yell that, bro.

[00:03:30]Nice to meet you.

[00:03:31]Thank you so much.

[00:03:37]Hi.

[00:03:38]Hi.

[00:03:40]Hi.

[00:03:41]Hi.

[00:03:43]Sneako.

[00:03:45]I'm from New York.

[00:03:47]Ooh. Where are you from?

[00:03:50]Malaysia. Nice. Good. Dato' Seri.

[00:03:54]>> Yes.

[00:03:55]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:03:58]How do you say happy in Malaysian?

[00:04:02]The town.

[00:04:04]Do you know this? Do you know 6 7?

[00:04:09]Easy.

[00:04:17]I'm from America.

[00:04:20]What city are you from? Kuala Lumpur?

[00:04:23]Yes.

[00:04:24]How old are you?

[00:04:27]Very good.

[00:04:42]Okay.

[00:04:44]As-salamu alaykum. Thank you so much.

[00:04:46]Come in the car. Okay. Okay.

[00:04:48]Come in the car.

[00:04:49]Okay.

[00:04:51]Okay.

[00:04:53]Okay.

[00:04:54]Hey Sasha, let me grab the song.

[00:04:58]Hey, come on. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

[00:04:59]Come on, man.

[00:05:03]Oh, is it just me? I'll just hold this.

[00:05:05]Okay.

[00:05:06]Yeah. That's it.

[00:05:12]>> Yeah, I'm coming in.

[00:05:13]They follow to my office.

[00:05:14]>> Okay.

[00:05:20]Okay.

[00:05:20]>> Ah, as-salamu alaykum.

[00:05:21]>> As-salamu alaykum.

[00:05:22]>> Ooh, it was hot there.

[00:05:23]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:05:26]>> Is it always like that for you?

[00:05:27]>> Yeah.

[00:05:28]And the the kids are >> It's good to speak to the children.

[00:05:32]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:05:35]>> Can I say hello? Do you mind?

[00:05:39]>> All right. As-salamu alaykum.

[00:05:40]>> Hey.

[00:05:46]>> Yeah, I know. Security the way we do it.

[00:05:48]All right.

[00:05:50]Thank you for for letting me in here.

[00:06:04]Is this where I'm looking at Is this where you usually go for Jumu'ah?

[00:06:23]Mhm.

[00:06:30]Yeah.

[00:06:34]Yeah.

[00:06:38]Mhm.

[00:06:43]Mhm.

[00:06:56]Mhm.

[00:06:57]uh bathrooms. Yeah. It's cool to see cuz right now in America there's all this chaos and I can't imagine seeing a world leader like that interact with the people and be amongst his citizens the way we just saw with you. It's it's It's nice to see because there's all this chaos right now in the world.

[00:07:32]Yeah.

[00:07:35]Mhm.

[00:07:43]I can't do that.

[00:07:45]>> Right.

[00:07:46]>> There's just there's the risk one take.

[00:07:48]Indeed. I can understand the concern of the security forces, I mean.

[00:07:53]Beyond them. But then I come You know, I I I don't come from the elite force.

[00:08:02]So, I come from >> Are you from Kuala Lumpur?

[00:08:04]>> Well, originally I'm from Penang in the north.

[00:08:07]>> All right.

[00:08:07]>> Then I grew up here in Kuala Lumpur since the basic here.

[00:08:14]I mean from the student days and then the welfare bodies and student Islamic movement. I've been involved for a long time.

[00:08:23]>> Mhm.

[00:08:24]>> And that have taught me nothing that you need So, there are constraints once you are once you are in the office.

[00:08:32]>> Yeah.

[00:08:33]>> You can you can function as you did when you were in the leader of the society or civil >> Is this your first trip to Malaysia?

[00:08:43]>> First time here.

[00:08:44]>> Oh, good.

[00:08:44]>> I've been to the Philippines when I was 8 years old.

[00:08:47]>> All right. Right. Right.

[00:08:48]>> But I think the Filipinos and the the Malaysians look a little bit alike.

[00:08:51]>> Yeah, usually the Malay stock uh the Malay come from the Malay world or the Malay archipelago.

[00:08:57]>> Mhm.

[00:08:57]>> Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, even Singapore, I mean they all come from the original Malay stock. But go here because in Malaysia we have ethnic Chinese, ethnic Indians.

[00:09:07]>> there's a lot of different ethnic groups.

[00:09:08]>> Yeah.

[00:09:09]It's >> But you seem very loved here. What is the the secret to getting the people on your side?

[00:09:14]>> I You you become yourself. I'm you know, you can see but there's so many there are a lot of people hate me, too.

[00:09:21]>> I would I don't even know.

[00:09:23]>> I know.

[00:09:25]Like like you know, the crisis uh gas and toll >> Yeah, it's going up because of the straight of Hormuz is closed.

[00:09:35]>> us, >> are fortunate because we maintain we engage. So, I last month I spoke to the president of Iran and said and he immediately cleared. So, two of our tankers are already here, arrived.

[00:09:46]>> Oh, two tankers came in from the >> Yes, yes, yes.

[00:09:49]>> So, they're working that people are allowed to get oil from the Strait of Hormuz that aren't working with the Zionists.

[00:09:54]>> Yes, but but now the Americans taking over then there be there's no certainty.

[00:10:00]What is I said President Macron has protected last night to ask me to join that meeting essentially to for the right of navigation.

[00:10:12]But that's not the end of the story. I mean, you should also then express your opposition to any attempt to attack and and as as as the Israelis and Americans did in Iran.

[00:10:26]>> Yeah, why do you think the United States has such a strong relationship with Israel? Because I just learned that the Israelis are banned from visiting Malaysia if I'm not mistaken.

[00:10:35]>> We do not recognize precisely because >> You don't recognize Israel as a state.

[00:10:40]>> No, well well we do it's de facto, yes.

[00:10:43]But but the issue is the atrocities continue.

[00:10:48]I mean, how do you recognize a state that colonize the other states? I mean, effectively Palestine and Gaza have been colonized.

[00:10:57]>> Yes.

[00:10:57]>> You see and so and we oppose colonization in all its form.

[00:11:02]>> Mhm.

[00:11:02]>> And we do therefore cannot condone that.

[00:11:05]There's no indication that the Israel is adjusting to some of its foreign policy.

[00:11:11]>> No, they keep expanding. They go out to Lebanon and displacing more people.

[00:11:14]>> The atrocities you know, unrivaled. It's like the barbaric so barbaric that's called the days of the barbarians.

[00:11:22]>> That's a beautiful machine.

[00:11:24]>> Yes.

[00:11:24]>> It seemed like in the hutba he was speaking a lot about Palestine.

[00:11:27]>> Yes, the hutba he made this reference the need to be united and we pray for the Palestinian and So that he the whole world But this is the state normally do have some influence and uh I think it is good that they did that but it's related to the need for unity, tolerance because the matter is so country a large number of ethnic Chinese and ethnic Indians.

[00:11:59]>> Right.

[00:11:59]>> And some of the tribal groups either animist or Christians.

[00:12:06]>> Mhm.

[00:12:07]I thought this was a masjid it's not that seems like it's your your office.

[00:12:10]>> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:12]>> Oops.

[00:12:13]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:14]>> What do you call this building?

[00:12:15]>> Uh it is it is uh uh uh Prime Minister's office but it's Seri Perdana. It is >> Seri Perdana.

[00:12:24]>> this.

[00:12:24]>> Okay.

[00:12:25]>> Uh this is completed 1998. The day I was in prison.

[00:12:30]>> Yeah, yeah, I heard there were saying that you were in prison.

[00:12:33]>> Many times. Many total of almost 10 and 1/2 years.

[00:12:37]>> So from prison to Prime Minister.

[00:12:39]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:40]>> As gangster.

[00:12:47]>> I have a short time just before the meeting you can probably have some >> love to yeah whatever much time.

[00:12:55]>> But why did you decide to come here?

[00:12:56]>> Because I love I want to unite the ummah. So I'll explain briefly I just came back from Bosnia and before that I went to Medina.

[00:13:04]I want people to be united right now especially with what's happening in in Iran.

[00:13:09]>> But it's not >> Try my best chat.

[00:13:22]As-salamu alaykum. As-salamu alaykum.

[00:13:26]>> You see this, am very to have in having You see the view is beautiful.

[00:13:34]>> It's beautiful here.

[00:13:35]>> And uh that's the view.

[00:13:40]Mosque here.

[00:13:41]>> Wow.

[00:13:42]>> And then there's the Boulevard. Now, of course, sometimes uh we have huge gatherings here.

[00:13:47]Uh we have uh Al-Aqah and the >> And Eid prayer?

[00:13:51]>> Of course.

[00:13:52]The regular uh programs here.

[00:13:55]>> Mhm.

[00:13:56]>> And uh with the Boulevard, they're mainly government officers on the right, housing.

[00:14:02]And housing and the government offices here.

[00:14:04]>> It's absolutely beautiful from here.

[00:14:07]>> It's nice.

[00:14:08]>> Wow.

[00:14:12]>> We just uh had a reception of the welcome the Prime Minister of Australia yesterday there.

[00:14:18]>> Of who?

[00:14:19]>> Prime Minister of Australia.

[00:14:20]>> Of Australia?

[00:14:21]>> Who was here for a a few minutes.

[00:14:23]>> Okay.

[00:14:24]>> Of course, yeah. And then the man in the crisis, everybody is now asking for oil.

[00:14:28]>> Yeah, everyone needs oil.

[00:14:30]>> Oil.

[00:14:30]>> Everyone needs their oil.

[00:14:32]Do you mind Do you mind holding this for me?

[00:14:34]No, you can't.

[00:14:36]Oh, it's okay.

[00:14:37]Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[00:14:41]Yeah, it's live.

[00:14:43]So, what is the main export? Is it Is it spices from Malaysia?

[00:14:47]>> No, ours is um semiconductor.

[00:14:50]>> Semiconductor?

[00:14:51]>> Yes, yes.

[00:14:52]>> It's huge.

[00:14:53]>> Really?

[00:14:53]>> Yes.

[00:14:55]We have because of the number of data centers, AI is new. We traditionally is rubber and tin.

[00:15:01]But that was 50, 60 years ago.

[00:15:04]Then industrial development and uh we shifted now. Of course, we have a toll.

[00:15:10]But only 50% for the state. The government invest uh you know, we have a this premium that we export.

[00:15:17]Uh but the shortage which is we still have to import and we have a refinery here in Malaysia.

[00:15:23]>> Mhm.

[00:15:24]>> For domestic requirements.

[00:15:26]>> Your English is really good.

[00:15:28]Yeah. It's the second language of Malaysia, correct?

[00:15:30]>> Yes, it is.

[00:15:31]>> Okay.

[00:15:33]All I know so far is uh Dato' Seri.

[00:15:36]That's the word they told me to call you. That's how I Anwar >> Dato' >> But, you're humble.

[00:15:46]>> You know, you the kids call me. Some of them call me Anwar Anwar.

[00:15:49]>> Anwar Anwar >> Some call me PMX, but I'm >> PMX >> the 10th Prime Minister. So, the students go PMX.

[00:15:58]>> PMX sounds like a rapper. I had a little bit like DMX.

[00:16:01]>> So, I don't know who started that when I became Prime Minister, then it became PMX, then it became it became I don't know what we call PMX.

[00:16:07]>> So, it's a newer state. It So, it became independent in the '50s, 1957.

[00:16:11]>> 1957.

[00:16:11]>> '57, huh.

[00:16:13]It's very new.

[00:16:13]>> 57 among developing countries in Asia.

[00:16:16]India, Pakistan '47, Indonesia '45.

[00:16:21]So, we were a bit behind, but then we we we managed to, you know, focus on the economy and and the sense of unity.

[00:16:30]This country is generally very peaceful.

[00:16:33]>> Yes, it seems like it.

[00:16:34]>> Yeah, it's by the fact that we have, you know, large number of Chinese and Indian citizens.

[00:16:39]>> You get along. What's the secret to the success? How How do you keep the peace in Malaysia?

[00:16:44]>> Well, I think it's to preach tolerance and and allow them to practice their own religion. I mean, you you can see churches all over, Hindu temples all over all over.

[00:16:53]>> Mhm.

[00:16:53]>> We do allow them, but then Islam is official religion in the country.

[00:16:58]>> But, there's no Sharia in Malaysia.

[00:17:00]>> Uh no. I mean, of course Sharia in a limited sense for Muslims, yes.

[00:17:04]>> Mhm.

[00:17:04]>> Uh in in um for for Muslims and then um uh but what we do do do do gradually people to understand and there's two list priorities I always call fiqh awlawiyat. We have to understand even jurisprudence because go through stages people to understand, to have have this tolerance, you have to accept the democracy. You can't push down the throats of people.

[00:17:31]But, we have to educate that that that is the ideal.

[00:17:35]>> Mhm. Mhm.

[00:17:36]>> Hopefully, inshallah, things will change.

[00:17:38]>> Inshallah. So, would you be the next caliph?

[00:17:41]>> No, I >> You're already loved. They love PM X.

[00:17:43]How about >> I don't have that ambition. I'm just >> PM caliph?

[00:17:46]>> I'm doing I'm doing the best I can.

[00:17:49]Uh I think uh I've I've You know with that all through all the storms.

[00:17:57]>> You got a decade.

[00:17:58]>> And so I let me do my best.

[00:18:00]>> Mhm.

[00:18:01]>> I would say mustatā' the best of your ability.

[00:18:05]>> Yeah.

[00:18:06]>> And yeah.

[00:18:06]>> You asked me why am I here? It's because right now, although Islam is a fast-growing religion in the world, we are more divided, I think, than >> we've ever been.

[00:18:15]>> And we don't have the same unity. We're not the same caliph. Even then, Sunni, Shia, they talk about Hanafi, Sufi, this stuff. And the Arab states are they say that they're at war with Iran. And so right now, I think it's important, especially as an American, to come to your beautiful country, speak to someone like you, and find some unity. How do you think the the Muslim world, beyond just Malaysia, how could we find more unity right now?

[00:18:38]>> We have to engage, we have to educate.

[00:18:41]This is the level of consciousness. They have to understand Islam.

[00:18:45]>> Mhm.

[00:18:45]>> Uh and and not just preach, but you know, it's it's you have to fully appreciate the message.

[00:18:54]And this is what I'm ideally universal uh message acceptance. But you just start somewhere.

[00:19:02]>> Mhm.

[00:19:02]>> The family, the society. This is our education reform, you know, the country would be strong, united, economically formidable to be able to then, you know, preach as an example. You have non-Muslims or even Muslims become rather disillusioned when you see the plight of Islamic states or Islamic Muslim countries.

[00:19:23]>> Mhm.

[00:19:23]>> It's poor, corrupt, it is, you know, marginalized groups and communities and minorities. So, you have a mission. To me, it's effective dawa.

[00:19:34]>> Yeah.

[00:19:34]>> You can prove that we can be peaceful, we can still move by this So, we call our state, our country, my political philosophy is Madani.

[00:19:43]>> Madani?

[00:19:44]>> Yes.

[00:19:44]>> Kind of like in New York, we have Mamdani.

[00:19:46]>> Yeah, Mamdani, yeah. Very close. Yeah, I need to call him Mamdani.

[00:19:49]>> like him? Do you like him?

[00:19:50]>> Yeah, yeah, follow, of course. Yes, I follow. My my my daughter used to be in Columbia University or New York University, yeah.

[00:19:57]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:19:57]>> He said because he's a great supporter of Mamdani.

[00:20:00]>> He's uh he's doing a great job so far.

[00:20:01]But, what does uh Madani mean?

[00:20:04]>> It's from the term city, Madinah of the of the state, um state established by the prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.

[00:20:12]Okay. Which means you have basis of faith, you believe, but there's also a system that is just, that's tolerant.

[00:20:19]Um empower the people, but at the same time, uh you have order.

[00:20:25]And so, I think uh it's an example of how Madinah was constructed as a state.

[00:20:32]>> And And the unity, you said that you allow Hindu temples and you allow others to So, is there any protest? Is there >> Yeah, of course.

[00:20:41]>> This is a democracy. You set up a mosque near the vicinity of Hindu temple.

[00:20:46]Temple, they will protest and they say So, but we say it must be order.

[00:20:50]>> Mhm.

[00:20:50]>> You follow rules. If there is large Hindu Hindu community in that area, you must accept.

[00:20:56]>> Mhm.

[00:20:57]>> And there's large Muslim community and of course, large majority of Muslims, over 65, 64% are Muslims. So, naturally, you have more mosques. But, the Hindus might be allowed to practice their own religion.

[00:21:08]>> Mhm.

[00:21:09]>> Uh churches, too.

[00:21:11]As much as we among the Christians, they also have And in in the provinces where the Christians are there slightly much more say 40 40 50% we have to accommodate. There'll never be satisfaction. There'll be always protest.

[00:21:27]>> Mhm.

[00:21:28]>> Uh So, but you have to accept that fact.

[00:21:32]>> Mhm.

[00:21:33]>> And not easy, I tell you.

[00:21:35]>> Easier said than done.

[00:21:36]>> Well, it looks great so far.

[00:21:38]And I've also heard you that you you met uh Ayatollah Khomeini before he was assassinated.

[00:21:43]>> Yes.

[00:21:43]>> And I think there's a lot of misunderstandings about him, especially in my country in America. They love to say that he's a evil person and he's assassinating people. What was he like?

[00:21:53]>> What?

[00:21:54]Um No, and also the other day then in the days of course I've met I've been there for but a long time ago. The after Khomeini took over and I was one of the >> Right.

[00:22:02]>> earliest delegation.

[00:22:04]>> Uh >> No, no, the the grandfather. No, no, no, yeah, the Khomeini Imam Khomeini the first president. Uh the the uh the the uh original leader. I mean, the original Yeah, Ayatollah, yeah. I met him. It was we went in delegation of long before I joined the government.

[00:22:20]>> Mhm.

[00:22:21]>> Um and then um I met him again, you know, uh successor leader.

[00:22:26]Well, I we don't necessarily agree with everything they say or they do. I tell you, nobody does, though. So, but but I think they should be given a chance. You have to give credit in terms of level of uh education, economic development, the level of technology.

[00:22:44]Yeah, you can have seen in recent time it shocked everybody. I I'm not surprised.

[00:22:48]>> Mhm.

[00:22:48]>> I've seen from places like Qom, Isfahan, and Tehran those days. And I can I can understand they focus on education, research, and science.

[00:22:57]>> Mhm.

[00:22:58]>> Uh >> Yeah, they have a really high education scores and the amount of young girls that graduate in science in Iran is extremely high. How was it in Malaysia?

[00:23:07]>> But we're focusing focusing on I'm glad to say that, you know, we're doing much more with this new government. Yeah.

[00:23:13]>> Yeah. Why I don't know for some reason I had the perception in America that Malaysia they were saying, "Oh, she's going to a third world country." And you see it's it's absolutely beautiful. Why do I have that misunderstanding?

[00:23:24]>> There's you know, the American mindset is very condescending.

[00:23:29]You don't know it's too >> You're right. You're right.

[00:23:31]>> I I used to teach at Georgetown.

[00:23:33]>> Oh, yeah?

[00:23:33]>> For some years, yeah.

[00:23:34]>> What did you teach?

[00:23:35]>> Um governance and and also then part of it being Islam in Southeast Asia just to get them American students to understand the difference.

[00:23:44]But um I moved to most all the universities in the states, you know, the new universities in the few years.

[00:23:51]And but this is general perception. This ignorance of the other.

[00:23:57]>> Mhm.

[00:23:58]>> You see? And I remember it's not only only only you, you know, because when President Trump came I had to host him.

[00:24:04]>> You hosted Trump here?

[00:24:05]>> Yes, and uh and uh um drove him in the in the beast >> Mhm.

[00:24:11]>> from the airport to the city. It's 40 minutes.

[00:24:14]>> Yeah.

[00:24:14]>> And he was huh Such beautiful roads.

[00:24:18]Look at those buildings. They're modern buildings. My god, this is he's just shocked.

[00:24:22]>> So he had the same reaction?

[00:24:23]>> Yeah.

[00:24:25]He's a real estate guy. So he he was extremely impressed >> Yeah.

[00:24:29]>> the building. So I guess you know, because you know, the the the thinking is that once you go somewhere they mean they think that they are some, you know, remote banana republic somewhere.

[00:24:39]>> Mhm.

[00:24:40]>> All right.

[00:24:42]>> Oh, thank you so much. I I appreciate Do you mind if can I take a photo with you?

[00:24:44]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, please.

[00:24:45]>> Yeah, this is great. Thank you so much for your time. Probably took more than You guys say thank you.

[00:24:55]>> Thank you.

[00:24:56]>> Okay, thank you so much.

[00:24:58]>> Okay, dear. All right.

[00:25:03]Thank you.

[00:25:12]I will go to Indonesia in four days after Malaysia.

[00:25:16]It is.

[00:25:18]If you know where to go the best places, we'll see.

[00:25:50]Thank you.

[00:25:52]Thank you so much.

[00:26:18]Thank you so much.