'A Serious Man': Coen brothers craft the Jewiest film of all

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-30

[00:00:07]Welcome to the Times of Israel's The Realm, bringing you all the Jewish entertainment news and movie reviews a Jew can use. I'm your host, Amanda Borchel, Don from Jerusalem, joined by our movie maven, Jordan Hoffman, straight from New Jersey.

[00:00:24]>> Hello. Thank you for having me. Thank you for the listeners once again. It's great to be back. We We were off last week. We had a week off and um I don't know if you did anything exciting during that week off or I can't remember what I did, but I feel like it was exciting.

[00:00:39]But uh >> yeah, I had a great station. I visited many places in my wonderful Jewish homeland that I hadn't been to for quite a while. And I had a great time. Yeah.

[00:00:50]Friends and family. you were you were saying that you were going to maybe try to check out Cesaria because there's been some changes there since you were last there. You know, in the year 1000 BC there were some changes, but uh what were the new changes that you saw this time?

[00:01:04]>> Well, actually, I hadn't been there for probably 12 years or so. And the whole port area has been redeveloped and there's a big visitor center. I was there with my son. My eldest son was out of the army for a few days. And so we hung out together and had an amazing meal on the uh port sea, you know, front view at a place called Cheeky Carlos. So they are not paying us, but it was an amazing pizza and probably the best salad I've had ever. And the coffee >> Yeah.

[00:01:37]>> to die for.

[00:01:38]>> Wow. Okay. Well, this just in. Cesaria, of course, is right kind of in the north on the Mediterranean. A very historic spot. The Romans that's named after Caesar, right? I mean, that's uh >> That's right.

[00:01:50]>> And our prime minister lives there.

[00:01:52]Another good reason to >> Yeah. Go say hi. Go ask him how your where your taxes are. So, that's good.

[00:01:58]>> That's right.

[00:01:58]>> All right. Well, that's great. I'm glad you had I I can't I honestly don't know what I did last week. I I know what I did do is I I sneezed a lot. The pollen count is out of control right now for the listeners. uh that are in the northeast of the USA, you know what I'm going through. I got my box of tissues right here. My Claritin is pumping through. It's it's been a wild time.

[00:02:19]Just you're sneezing wherever you go.

[00:02:21]But that's part of life. But the other thing that went on in the world of entertainment was the Can Film Festival in the south of France, which happens uh every year um with the exception of 1968 and the exception of 2020. Uh and I have been to this festival many many times.

[00:02:36]I've covered it for TOI and other outlets, but I did not go this year. Um, which is fine. Um, you know, you can't be everywhere every year. Um, there weren't too many films that were of particular direct interest to uh, as we like to call it, the Jewish experience or even uh, or certainly there were not any Israeli movies in competition this year. Um, there weren't even that many Israeli, sorry, there weren't even that many Jewish movie stars. Usually there's a, you know, a Scarlett Johansson or a Natalie Portman or or Ben Stiller shows up, but I don't think off the top of my head. I'm sure there were a handful, but nothing nothing uh other than the fact that they did give an honorary award, an honorary palm to Barbara Stryand, who is, you know, I mean, that makes up for all the lack of the others. There's no no one bigger. No one more special, no one more divine. But uh she didn't come.

[00:03:34]She she accepted the award via via satellite. She's, you know, she's 82, 83. Let her She's living in all the way in Los Angeles. She going to make a schle all the way to France to pick up yet another award. She's got plenty of awards. She doesn't need another one.

[00:03:51]Um, >> you know, Jordan, one of the things I did do on my station is pick up the Barbara Stryson autobiography that you recommended to me. You said it was 900 pages of perfection.

[00:04:03]>> It's very funny. It's a very funny memoir. And did you finish it or is it you still I think I'm in 197 something right now.

[00:04:12]>> You've got to watch. She hasn't even met James Brolan yet. But it is a very very very very funny memoir and and uh even if you >> if you're not uh someone who cares about every single thing she it's very detailed. She has quite a memory.

[00:04:26]>> Very detailed.

[00:04:28]>> Very funny. But I will say you've already made it past my one of my favorite parts of the book which is that the time she had her one singing lesson.

[00:04:36]Say what you will about Barbara Stysan.

[00:04:38]She's a very good singer. No one can deny this. you can find her to be a little maybe full of herself or whatnot, but she is a very very good singer and she never took a lesson. She took one lesson and she stayed for about five minutes and said, "You don't know what you're talking about." and left. And that was >> wonderful. So, it's such a great scene.

[00:04:57]>> I also love her very detailed depictions of things she's been eating everywhere she goes. Love it.

[00:05:04]>> Yeah. Goldenberg's peanut shoes. She loves gold. Can you get those in Israel?

[00:05:07]Goldenberg's peanut shoes.

[00:05:08]>> I don't even know what they are. Really?

[00:05:12]Well, the next time you're in the USA, and I know you have plans to come to the USA, please stop at the local Walgreens and get some Goldenberg's Peanuts. I'm assuming you can get them all over the USA. I know you're going to be in the Midwest. Um, you could certainly get them in the New York, New Jersey region.

[00:05:28]Goldenberg's Peanuts are, and they sound Jewish because they are. They are truly the greatest of all the candies. Uh, I think they're top level. You know, Snickers bars are up there. Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Goldenberg's Peanut Chews are are marvelous. In Britain, you have something called the Star Bar. And in Canada, you have something called the Wonder Bar. Same thing. Can't get those in the USA. That's one problem with America right there is that, you know, Trump's got to get working on that. But the Goldenberg's Peanuts Barbara loves and so do I. So there you go.

[00:06:00]>> She talks about Kishes and all sorts of different things. It's it's really it was such a good setup actually for the movie. We are going to discuss it this week.

[00:06:09]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, after um many many months of talking about it, we're going to discuss the Cone Brothers, A Serious Man. And when we announced this uh podcast series and we took some suggestions, it was in the first round of Well, you're going to have to do a Serious Man, right? And >> first, second, third, fourth, fifth round.

[00:06:28]>> Everyone has mentioned it and and it is in fact um one of my favorite movies of all time. I haven't talked about this with Amanda yet. I'm hoping that she liked it as well. I also think it's one of those movies that that um rewards repeat viewings much like The Shining or 2001 of Space Odyssey. You learn more about the film every time you see it.

[00:06:48]And I have some of my own wacky theories about it. Um but I guess the number one question is Amanda, what did what did you think? Can you tell me if you enjoyed the film having seen it for the first time?

[00:07:01]>> I will tell you after the break.

[00:07:09]And we're back. I'm Amanda Borcel Dan here with our movie maven Jordan Hoffman and we are talking about a serious man.

[00:07:16]Now Jordan, before I answer your cliffhanger question, >> yes. Yes.

[00:07:20]>> I just have to say that I really like the Cohen brothers movies. Though I have to say that since uh 1999, since I moved here, I haven't really been following them. But before I made Aliyah, I loved Bart and Frink and Fargo, Blood Simple.

[00:07:37]And some of my fondest memories of university are going to be Place in Bloomington, Indiana, drinking Long Island and icy little mini pictures and watching Cohen Brothers Marathon uh movies. And so I was already, you know, predisposed to like this film, but I had no idea what it was about.

[00:07:58]>> Sure. Okay. Well, I I'll give a little background. So, first of all, yes, Serious Man is uh written and directed and produced by Joel and Ethan Cohen, who are not twins. A lot of people think they are twins. One's a little older, and they have been making movies since the the late 1980s. They are still making movies now, although they have split. The brothers have uh they're no longer together. No one really knows why. Um and and honestly, the quality of their work has depreciated significantly since they split. Um they need to get back together. and uh they were making movies that were sort of very hard to define uh other than the fact they were all extremely clever and they oftentimes get lumped in with the rest of the sort of early 1990s American independent movement filmmakers like uh uh Quentyn Tarantino or um um Steven Soderberg uh and and honestly that is not really what their aesthetic is. Their early films were financed uh independently, but their their other influences are much more antic. Uh their their their big collaborators in their early years were guys like Sam Ramy uh who made these wonderful weird horror movies like Evil Dead 2 and their first cinematographer, a guy named Barry Sonnenfeld, who later went on and made um uh the Adams family and also Schmidadun. I interviewed him for Schmidon for for Times of Israel, who also is a much more cartoony. So although they do get lumped in as sort of these cerebral um very sort of uh maybe even um intellectual independent filmmakers, they're more into like cartoons and Looney Tunes. That's kind of their their secret sauce there. Um but uh as time marched on, they made these really incredible movies oftentimes about crime dramas. Movies like Fargo that you mentioned, Miller's Crossing, which is a play on um Chicago gangsters. And then over time their their stars started to rise and they made an adaptation of the book No Country for Old Men which won then the Academy Award >> and it was whoa. Yeah. Really good movie. Uh where unpredictable a little bit on the violent side. So what happens in Hollywood is if you win the Academy Award you get to do whatever you want next. That's the rule. You get the blank check so to speak. So, their next film was something that um actually is not as celebrated by critics, but is really, really good. Something called Burn After Reading, which is a very funny comedy about the CIA. And that movie made a ton of money, hundreds of millions of dollars. And so, they had the double blank check. You're allowed to do what usually what happens is when a director or directors in this case win the Oscar, they then do their passion project, which makes no money. In their case, they they reversed it. They did something very commercial and made a boatload of money. So they had the blankst of blank checks ever to do whatever the hell they wanted. So finally they made this film called Serious Man. And if there's one criticism about the Cohen brothers work up until this point is that their their films tend to be very stylized and very caric caricaturish. There were not it's not so much about them. They are not autobiographical filmmakers. And this is the first time and the only time they've ever made a movie that is a little bit about real life. Still put through a a lens, a very strange lens, but this movie is the closest thing they have to to a memoir film. It's set in in 1967, very specifically 1967. We're going to get into why that's important in a moment. It's set in 1967 and the main character is not not the main character, but in a way the character that counts is a 13-year-old boy about to have his bar mitzvah and that represents them because they that they were that age.

[00:11:42]So, we're seeing the movie through through their eyes about a son whose father is going through problems and um you know, it is set in the Midwest.

[00:11:52]They're from Minnesota. Midwestern Jews are a different breed of Jew as we as we know. Amanda can attest to this. And um it's set in a in a specific environment that's very very mid mid uh what do they call it mid-century modern architecture.

[00:12:07]Everything's very flat. Everything's very rectangular. Um the color palette and it's the world that they grew up in.

[00:12:13]So that is kind of their thing. And the other thing which does come from reality is when they were boys and when they were bar mitzvah, the big deal is that you would be invited to speak with the big rabbi. In this case, he's called Rabbi Marsh. And that would almost be like the prize. Like you're going to see you're going to Oz. You're going to see the Wizard of Oz. And and that was a thing. And all the boys would be terrified. this 900-year-old man who's in a dark cavernous room filled with chachkis from the old world is going to have a conversation with me. Oh my god, what's going to happen? And that's taken from a reality and you can see how that's just enough. That's just a kernel of how to tell this film. So what is the film serious man? It is a stew of great Jewish texts plopped into 1967 in in Minnesota. Uh >> the way Jordan Yes. The whole thing starts with a quote from Rashi, right?

[00:13:10]Okay. The great, you know, biblical commentator among other things. Great bibl, you know, rabbitical deciser. He's a huge huge figure in Judaism, right? So that's already really weird. Okay. And then the the movie, does it start in English? No. Why would we do that? Let's have you know five 10 minute scene gripping but extremely bizarre scene intettle yiddish. Yeah.

[00:13:38]>> Okay. With a debuk like a possessed rabbi. Maybe question mark. Maybe not.

[00:13:43]>> Yeah.

[00:13:44]>> Very weird. Very weird.

[00:13:45]>> Um by the way go to go through the times of Israel archives and you'll find uh that I actually interviewed the actor who plays the divic in that in that film. So for a different project. He is a Yiddish scholar. So I talked to him about a Yiddish project he was working on. Um uh so yes it opens with the quote from Rashi which is a very important quote. The quote is and I wrote it down.

[00:14:05]The quote is basically uh the summation of the quote is take it easy. But I receive with simplicity everything that happens to you, which is a very funny thing to say about this movie, but it is a very funny thing to say to Jews in general because it if that is the rule, receive with simplicity everything that happens to you. It the the lead character in this film does everything but that. He does everything the opposite. He questions everything.

[00:14:31]He drives himself crazy and he probably gives himself stomach cancer as a result, but we'll get to that. Um uh and and this is this is why the movie is a great great great comedy. Um received with simplicity. So after this opening prologue, which the Cohens have referred to as the cartoon before the movie, a little horror movie thing that may have relevance to the rest of the film, it may not. It's open. There have been there have been great scholars that have tried to connect the little prologue of the film which is set in the is like a kind of a ghost story and then you plop into 196 and you 67 you meet our main character who is Larry Gobnik played by Michael Stillbar who is a modern-day Job and it it it actually does map quite well. If you reread the story of Job and apply it to this film, you will find that it follows, you know, Job has three conversations.

[00:15:28]And in this movie, he speaks to three rabbis because he's trying to find answers. He is a he's a man on a quest.

[00:15:35]He's doing what Jews do, which is question question God, question life. In fact, he is a a scientist. He's a math professor at a college, which by the way, the Cohen's um father was a physics professor. in this he's a mathematics professor and you >> I think he is a physics professor but >> is he a physics okay yeah >> yeah yeah but he uses the math because the math you can prove and the physics is theoretical and the math proves the physics >> right and they have these shots these wonderful shots of him in front of these enormous blackboards with >> double decker blackboards filled with tiny you know formulas and he's like squatting as he's putting them it's amazing >> which are completely meaningless and then ultimately He even says, I mean, he's talking about things like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and the theory of Schroinger's cat. And he ultimately says, you get all this and you don't really know the answer, but you will be responsible for it on the midterm, which is, you know, that's a quote as good as Rashi as far as I'm concerned. Um, so he has these issues.

[00:16:37]Um, and then suddenly life starts giving him trouble. His he becomes uh he it's not a onetoone. He does not get hit with boils, but his brother gets hit with boils. Uh his brother who's sort of an extension of him and his is lost his marbles a little bit. And he too is working on something called the mentaculus, which is this he's got this formula he's working on which he thinks is going to solve issues and he's caught he's probably what it is is he's a gambler and he's be he's trying to cheat at cards or something and and he's on the run from that. his wife starts stooping around with another guy, which is bad enough, but then you meet the guy Sai Abelman, and he's the biggest schle in cinema, and all you can think is what does she see in him? Uh, he's got one >> this this actor, I feel like I've seen him so many times before. He's brilliant.

[00:17:26]>> Oh, he's wonderful. Yes, the actor uh who plays Sai Ableman is um Yes, he's been in a 100,000 movies and um >> he's been in Woody Allen movies. He was in um he was in Shiva Baby and I love him to death and of course I'm blanking on his name. His name is of course Fred Melamemed and Fred Melamemed is is marvelous. Um and then of course he's got his neighbors. He's got sort of a quasi Nazi on one side and then he's got uh Jezebel Tentress on the other side and it's it's all very remarkable. And then the other sort of Jewish text in this is Kafka. I mean, he he's decided that in order to solve his inner woes, he has to try and speak to to the big rabbi and he can't get in. And this is this is the equivalent of the the man sits before the law, which is a short story that Kafka inserted into the trial um where you can wait and wait and do anything and you could even bribe just so you can say at least you tried to bribe and you will not be allowed in to see the law. Uh the the the punchline of this is that his son, who's just like a kid who wants to get high and listen to rock music, um his son does get in and waste the opportunity because he doesn't care. But the father, which is symbolic of a lot of stuff if you want to get into generations of Jewish assimilation and whatnot, but the father um you know, there's the first rabbi who he sees who's a young man who is just rambling about parking lots. Um, press pause here because the actor was so perfect. And this is the guy from um that Sheldon uh television program. What's it called?

[00:19:02]>> Oh, uh, Big Bang Theory.

[00:19:04]>> Big Bang Theory. Right. Okay.

[00:19:05]>> So, you've got >> So Jewish. So Jewish.

[00:19:08]>> Really really funny. And then so that's the first the first consultation. The second rabbi is um a little older and also rambling and he tells a shaggy dog story about the Goyy's teeth. And the Goya's teeth is like an eight and a half minute sequence in a serious man that is I think the funniest section of film ever made and it's about a a a gentile who goes to a dentist and he discovers that he has Hebraic writing in in his teeth and it drives the dentist needs to know why and of course there is no why.

[00:19:44]It's just because and it's all set to psychedelic rock music, Jimmyi Hendris specifically. Um, don't try to find that specific version of Machine Gun anywhere online.

[00:19:56]It is a bootleg version that the Coins had access to, but there is. So, there you just FYI that >> I feel like this is a very deep cut.

[00:20:05]>> I spent I spent a lot of time trying to find that. Um, and then of course there's the Rabbi Marshack who he is not allowed to see. Now, there's another aspect of this film which I've thought a lot about. you know, what is this movie really really about other than a man being perhaps tormented by God or plagued by God like Job? And I think actually, and this only came to me on like the fifth viewing.

[00:20:31]>> If you watch it again, >> how many viewings have you had?

[00:20:33]>> This one I probably seen at least 10 times. I mean, I think I mean 2001 of Space Odyssey I've seen 20 times, but this one I've seen at least 10 times. I think if you really start to look at this, you can you can figure, well, when does this movie take place?

[00:20:49]The movie takes place very specifically in 1967, which by the way, they break the rules.

[00:20:55]His son orders a rock record through the Columbia Record and Tape Club, which becomes another like devil chasing his tail. And he wants the money for the album Santana Abrais, which is very funny thing to say. When Larry Gothics on the phone goes, I don't know what Santana Abraasis is. Arais is a Gnostic theory of like trying to know the unknowable. Arais didn't come out until 1970, but the Comb brothers had to put it in there anyway. It was something that is too perfect. So, but the movie does take place in 1967.

[00:21:24]>> Wait, how do you know that, Jordan? I did not pick up on that.

[00:21:26]>> Santana Braas, like what year it came out.

[00:21:29]>> That the movie is in 1967.

[00:21:31]>> I I believe they say it at some point. I think that I think they say it and there's other context clues. Um, and I I would have to refer to my notes as to why I know that's from 1967, but I'm pretty sure that's that's in there. Um, but of course 67 is important uh in your part of the world is that is when six day war was. Um, in the Gapnik house you will find in the background there is a framed painting of uh the whailing wall, right, which was not prior 1967 a Jew a Jew could not go there. It was it was a I mean wasn't it locked off I mean wasn't in in the old city were they not allowed to go in uh to go there at the time or was it like walled off from them or >> I mean it's on again off again right from 1948 until 1967 it was not accessible but before 1948 it was and >> right right well what I meant was if the you know if they bought this painting in 1962 when they moved into the house the wall represented a place they could not have access to Is that fair to say?

[00:22:34]>> Yes, I suppose so.

[00:22:34]>> Yeah. Yeah. Because it wasn't until the ' 67 war that the access to the old city changed. If not, you're blowing my mind here. I think that's that's the that's correct.

[00:22:44]>> No, no, that's for sure. Between 1948 and 1967, however, I mean, there was obviously a place in, you know, Jewish tradition. Of course, they call it the Whailing Wall. Oh my god, you would be stoned for that here. But no, I'm just kidding. The Western Wall, the hotel, let's call it. But sure.

[00:23:00]>> Well, my grandmother called it the Whailing Wall. So, you know, that was the nick and that's probably what these characters would have called it as well.

[00:23:06]These very American characters.

[00:23:07]>> It's quite possible.

[00:23:08]>> So, if the film is set in ' 67 and if that painting has been in their home for 5 years or whenever they moved in, it represented sort of another place where they could not could not have access to.

[00:23:19]So then the the the point I wanted to make is this. The color light blue, which is represented on the Israeli flag, is a recurring motif in the visual look of of this film. It comes up several times. You see it um in various objects throughout the house, various pieces of Judeaica in the house, the same shade of blue. You see it on the first rabbis's uh office. It's the the famous blue box from the Jewish National Fund. And then you see it in a scene of a with a character who kind of comes out of nowhere and you never see again.

[00:23:54]She's at the beach and she >> I totally know what you're talking about. And I remember thinking as she was speaking she had this blue headscarf and a blue outfit. I mean, I didn't tie it with Israel, but she was very I mean, she actually, frankly, looks like one of my neighbors. And so, I was like, "Oh, you know, >> she I to me I feel that." And she is the one who when Larry is is is is in strife and doesn't know what to do. She suggests that he find solace in in faith. And she suggests that he goes and consults uh the rabbis and even says, "We have this this faith to fall back on. Uh use it." And she is a and and and and so to me she represents making aliyah on a positive aspect because she is wearing the color blue which represents Israel in this film I feel and she is suggesting to him that he should stop being so hung up about things in the new world in America and look look look look for another path.

[00:24:56]She also is wearing leg braces.

[00:24:59]>> Yes. And I think this represents to me um Jews after the Holocaust that are, for lack of a better expression, licking their wounds, still trying to heal. And I uh other than that, she's just a woman in leg braces and you have to figure it out for yourself. It's never explained.

[00:25:16]And then the other time you see the color blue is the antagonist of the film, the rotten schle Sai Ableman who wears the same color and he is an aggressive, manipulative, nasty man, >> an Israeli.

[00:25:35]I believe that he is meant to represent, you know, 1967 is when the settlement movement happened and the Cohen brothers are American Jews probably from Hollywood that probably think that Israel made some missteps after 1967 and that he represents one path and she represents another path and they are all wearing the same color that you see in the JNF box and the rabbis. Uh uh so that only hit me on the fifth uh viewing, but I'm pretty sure that that is exactly what that's supposed to mean.

[00:26:09]And that that is what the movie is ultimately all about because the prologue is set in the old country in the stethole. The bulk of the film is set in America and then uh where is it heading? I mean he's trying to head you know where what is the next step for the wandering Jew? It would be to go to Israel and figure things out there. The last image of the film of course is a cyclone. There are a lot of images tornado tornado cyclone. Okay. But there are there is a lot of the um the Wizard of Oz in this film as well like when he goes to see the rabbi and the boy sees the rabbi and the rabbi has nothing to say. The rabbi just repeats rock lyrics to him and says be a good boy. So that's a lot like the you know the Wizard of Oz has nothing to say and the Wizard of Oz although the book was not written by a Jew the movie was produced by a Jew. So that as far as I'm concerned the Wizard of Oz is a Jewish text um for the sake of this argument. So you have Kafka, you have the Wizard of Oz, and you have Job all swirled up in a stew. And then the the music of course is um uh Somebody to Love by the Jefferson Airplane. The Jefferson Airplane were a more Jewish than not rock band. Marty Balon's real name was like Michael Rockman or something. And uh Yor Macau in his Jewish. A lot of the guys in the band were Jews. And I think that's picked by by design. Also, the rabbi gets the lyrics wrong. The rabbi when he repeats the lyrics at the end, he says, "When the truth when when the truth is found to be lies and all the hope within you dies is what he says." The the lyrics actually are when all the love within you dies. But he changes it to hope.

[00:27:38]Why?

[00:27:39]>> Hatikva.

[00:27:41]>> Really? Is that the answer?

[00:27:43]>> The national anthem of Israel. Hatikva.

[00:27:45]The hope.

[00:27:46]>> There you go. Okay. That's why he changed it. That's why the chang.

[00:27:49]>> Okay. Listen.

[00:27:50]>> We just broke through here. If any of you are professors of complate, complate professors, please weigh in on all of Jordan's unified theory of everything for this particular movie. In the meantime, we are going to go to a short break.

[00:28:11]>> And we're back. I'm Amanda Barcelon here with our movie maven, Jordan Hoffman, dissecting right >> a serious man. Pincers. We have the pinsers out this time.

[00:28:21]>> Well, I mean, you've I feel like you all you've done is added more fuel to the fire of my theory with that with that change of the lyrics. I've always wondered why they changed the lyrics other than be funny. And that leads to my next big point. So, I feel this movie is a very rich Jewish text uh more so than most films ever made. But it's also a comedy. It's just laugh out loud.

[00:28:42]Before you move on, I just want to say when my husband and I were watching it last night, we finished watching it and I turned to him and I said, "I think this was the most Jewish movie I've ever seen in my life, including all the Israeli films I've seen in my life. This was hands down the Jewiest of the Jewy Jewey Jew Jew films ever."

[00:29:02]>> 100%. You'll get no argument for it. Is the most Jewish film ever made and certainly non-Jews can enjoy it and many non-Jews do enjoy it. And it did. So that was my question because he and I turned to each other and we're saying, >> you know, so much of this is what we call inside baseball. Not only do you have to be Jewish, you have to actually understand what happens in a synagogue.

[00:29:23]You have to understand, you know, Jewish tradition in order to get all of this.

[00:29:27]And I mean, not to put you down, Mr. Jordan Hoffman, but uh it is apparent to me that you haven't always attended the synagoguy.

[00:29:34]>> Sure. That's true. Yeah, >> I think there are probably levels of this film that even you didn't get because it's such, you know, related to the, you know, the prayers and the way that the the services roll out.

[00:29:47]>> How in the world did they get to go see this film?

[00:29:52]>> Well, that's why I said it's the blank check film. They were allowed to do whatever they wanted after winning the Oscar and after making a lot of money.

[00:29:59]Um, the producers just said, "Here you go. Do what you want. Come back to us in a year." Um, the movie was a modest success. It wasn't a huge blockbuster, but it did get nominated for several awards. It even was nominated for best picture, believe it or not. It didn't win obviously, but it was nominated at the Oscars.

[00:30:15]>> Blows my mind.

[00:30:16]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, by that point there was sort of like they were so um respected that it was almost like, you know, they've been nominated for best picture so many times and they'd already won one. It was almost like a shoe in like like Meryill Streep's always going to get nominated. They're at that point of their career. They were sort of a shoein. Um, you know, to answer your question, how how would um, you know, I I enjoy being that's what I love about movies, specifically movies from other cultures, is being immersed in a culture that I don't know. So, when I see a film um, uh, you know, when I see a film from Africa about African cultures that I know nothing about, I'm like, "Wow, this is incredible." Or, you know, I really love Indian movies because I I'm I'm not Indian and I I I learn things from Indian movies. Hopefully, I'm learning the truth and not learning fake things.

[00:31:03]So, I think that there are people who with open minds who would see this film and and really like it. You know, anti-semites would not like it very much, although they may laugh at uh like the brother character is kind of a a little bit of a stereotype and you know, they might laugh at him. Um but but yeah, the other funny thing you mentioned about the synagogue is that's the only time you ever see Larry Gopnik happy is when his son is being bar mitzvot. It's the only time he ever smiles and the only time he and his wife share a moment of happiness. Um, it lasts for two seconds because then she tells him that the reason he's not getting tenure is because Sai Abelman is writing is is trying to undercut him.

[00:31:40]She it's the whole thing. But, uh, yeah, that's the only the only the only time where where he's feeling good about himself is is there, which is why I think that the movie is is so important and so good. Um, but but yes, the thing is this. It is first and foremost a comedy. It's really, really, really funny, and a lot of it wouldn't work if it wasn't for the visual design. Forget my wacky theories about the color blue representing Israel. Just the the visual look with the mid-century modern architecture, the costumeuming, and the performances. Fred Melamemed is Sai Ableman. He did become and still is something of an internet meme. like he he is, you know, still used on the internet as a reaction gif, you know, that face, his his snarl. Um, you know, uh, and and he is the serious man of the title, you know, he is respected in the community and really he's just a and, uh, a slob and nasty and mean and yet for some reason, you know, and even in death, he's a pain in the ass because he dies and Larry has to pay for the funeral for some reason and we don't know why. So it's >> it's just, you know, the thing to do.

[00:32:48]>> Yeah. Exactly.

[00:32:50]>> Yeah.

[00:32:51]>> So listen to him.

[00:32:52]>> Yeah. I I think that's part of what makes it work is that it's something that clearly these guys were working on for a very very long time and poured their heart and soul into the script to make every moment as rich as possible.

[00:33:04]There's just a lot of very very there's no wasted characters. I mean the rabbi secretary just what she's wearing and how she walks and how she clears her throat. There's the older sister who's not in it that much, but when she is, she's screaming and yelling and she's locked herself in the bathroom and whatnot. It's very very funny. Um, there's just a lot of texture in this that is I think, you know, a nonju can simply just laugh at the uh the the silliness of it all. the use of music, the sexy neighbor, the angry neighbor, the the Korean student who tries to understand un concepts that are not understandable and wants a good grade and tries to bribe uh our main character and and won't allow it. And then his father tries to his father is right.

[00:33:51]This is defamation. It's very funny. It is just as inscrutable as everything else. I think it's just a funny movie.

[00:33:57]So, I mean, it has sustained. It's now uh it's 20 years old. The movie came out in I believe 2006. So in my head it's still like a relatively recent film, but it's now been around for quite a while.

[00:34:07]And I think it >> is so old. Dread.

[00:34:10]>> I know it's ridiculous. Um I mean I do remember seeing it for the first time and thinking, you know, wow, this this could be like one of the all-time greats, but like gee, I got to give it some time and let it simmer. Because a lot of times you do, you come out of a movie that's good and you think, wow, I just saw a masterpiece that's going to last forever. And then a year or so passes and you're like, isn't that good?

[00:34:30]I mean, you look at the movies that have won uh won a lot of awards in the last five years and you go, "Yeah, it was good. It was good. Was it a masterpiece?

[00:34:38]Is it going to stand the test of time?"

[00:34:39]And I think this one really really really will. And I don't I I I there there there have to be some non-Jews who like it as well, otherwise it wouldn't be so fondly remembered. But I do think that if um you know if you know these characters like you me like you mentioned the younger rabbi is somebody who who you recognize the middle rabbi who tells the story of the goyy's teeth.

[00:34:59]I mean, that's somebody that that I and when he's telling the story and he's on the phone, he goes, "Hello." I mean, it's just it's just >> it's just very uh >> it's all so perfect.

[00:35:10]>> You know, the sanctuary of the synagogue for me, it was very familiar having grown up in the Midwest and, you know, being with these people. And in fact, you're talking about the houses and how they're of their period. I I mean I lived in a house very similar looking in Indianapolis and you know all the neighbors around could have been Jews and it was just so perfectly executed. I thought this film >> Yeah.

[00:35:35]>> which is why when they go into the >> the rabbis chambers and it's the only room that is not rectangular and round.

[00:35:41]It's got crevices. It's got weird stuff under glass. It looks like something from an from Lord of the Rings practically. And to the kid it really is from another world. I do know that one little production aside that really helped uh the film which is when uh they they found the location they wanted to shoot at and like a few weeks beforehand there had been a really bad storm. So a lot of the trees had to be yanked out or cut down which was very lucky cuz it made it look like a newer community with younger plants and not trees that had been there for a while. And that was a real and it's funny because the end of the movie is about a big storm. So, it really was like the hand of God helping the production design on this film by saying, "We're going to make it look even younger and a newer and fresher community that doesn't quite feel like reality." And um yeah, I think I think that's part of it. The the look of the film as well, everybody's glasses and everybody's what they're wearing, whatot.

[00:36:35]>> I mean, just looking at pictures of my dad, he had those glasses, those Larry Gopnik uh glasses during that era, which is basically when I was born, you know, I was born a little later. And you know, you talked about the tornado and having grown up in Indiana or at least from age 10 in Indiana, >> tornado drills and tornado warnings were a real real presence in our lives. Like whereas here in Israel, we have drills for, you know, bombs, missiles.

[00:37:07]>> Back in Indiana, it was for tornadoes.

[00:37:11]And it it was just really uh amazing seeing the kids, you know, know what to do, not kind of know what to do. And the Hebrew school and obviously >> the Hebrew school, >> the Hebrew school, Jordan Hoffman, how more perfect can you get with this Hebrew school and I'm sitting next to my husband who is a biblical Hebrew scholar, right? And he was just laughing his head off watching this scene. So good. So good. it it's so I'm I'm I'm guessing then for the grade on this one you're you're you're pretty pretty positive on this one. Um you understand why the minute we announced this podcast this was one of the first that many of the listeners said we really should should take a look at and uh it's worth seeing again and again. I mean you will notice you'll just notice more jokes first of all because it's a a high concentration of jokes in there but you know you that's when you start to get into these weird theories of what these things represent because it is an open-ended film. You don't know you, you know, you don't know what the opening dick scene has to do with the rest of the film unless you come up with a theory. Uh you >> I have a theory. Do you want to hear my theory?

[00:38:16]>> I do. Yeah. That's what this is all about. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:18]>> I mean, I only watched it once, right?

[00:38:21]So, I don't know if I'm like uh you know, credited enough to speak about it.

[00:38:27]But my theory is this that the rabbi Marshak >> is the same Dibbe character meaning he didn't die. Yeah.

[00:38:36]>> He continued on living centuries >> and he now sits in this you know cavernous >> rabbi's office in Minnesota.

[00:38:46]>> Yeah.

[00:38:47]>> And you can't get access to I mean it's possible. I mean sure why not. I mean that would be that would certainly make a lot of sense. And so he doesn't really have any specific wisdom to offer, but he can shroud himself. He knows how to be a mystery, which is why he won't allow Larry to see him. And when the son does go see him, he has nothing really to say. I I mean, I think that sort of is, you know, the other thing. You can drive yourself crazy trying to put math on the blackboard and figure out the meaning of life through mathematics. you can do like the brother and lose your mind a little bit and try to come up with a theory on how we don't really know what he's doing whether he's trying to win at cards or whatever. We just know that he's miserable and probably not a righteous man. Um, but what does Rashi say? Rashi says, what's the quote again? The receive with simplicity everything that happens to you. So, I mean, the answer is right there on how to live a righteous life is to chill out. Don't push the river, it flows by itself, as they say. Um, but it's easier said than done. Lord knows I have my issues with that and I think everybody does. You know, I think uh I don't know anybody who doesn't struggle with that very simple commandment of just let everything be cool. And those who do really listen to it, they never get anything accomplished. They just stay at home. They get high all the time. They never do anything. So there's got to be a balance somewhere. And I don't know what that is.

[00:40:09]>> So yes, insummation. fullthroated. Not bad for me. No question. Obviously from you as well. I think it would be not bad plus+ plus. Maybe we need our own uh category for for this particular film. I don't know. But uh Jordan Hoffman.

[00:40:26]>> Yeah, >> we are hopefully going to do something next week that we have never done before on the realm.

[00:40:34]>> Yeah, I know. We're gonna experiment.

[00:40:35]We're gonna try to get a guest on the show. Um because next week um well I say not next week, it's soon thereafter um is when the annual Israel Film Festival happens in New York City at the JCC Manhattan up there on I believe it's Columbus and 79th or 80th or so.

[00:40:55]Wonderful place. If you've never been, even if you don't live in New York, it's worth visiting. And that is sort of the epicenter of um of a a certain strain of Jewish life in New York City. And also um it's kind of a kickoff for this festival which has been going on for years of um a kickoff of a year's worth of Israeli movies that then pop up at other festivals and then eventually show up on streaming services. Um it's it's um the Israel Film Festival. Uh, I believe the full name is the Israel Film Fund Festival because it is that fund that is involved in the production of these films that we talked about a little bit with the controversial movie Yes. from a few weeks ago. Um, and basically if a movie is going to play at this festival, it's going to eventually show up. If you live in Atlanta or Boston or San Diego or something and there's a Jewish film festival there, the movies that play here will likely show up there at some point. So, it's a good starting gun or it sometimes is like the last stop on on the tour of the country and then when they show up on on streaming services. So, we picked two um kind of at random actually. We picked three and then you watched one of the three and you said that one's no good.

[00:42:08]So, I haven't seen that one yet. I'm going to put that on a side. Don't >> Yeah. Well, you just said it was like a kids film and then we consulted with the programmer and he was like, "Yeah, yeah, we programmed that uh mostly for kids."

[00:42:18]That So, we're going to watch uh two of the titles um in advance of our conversation next week with a fellow by the name of Isaac Zablaki. And Isaac Zablaki has been working at the JCC Manhattan for a very very very long time. He is sort of the the man in charge of all of the film programming there and which includes this festival.

[00:42:36]It includes um something called the other Israel film festival which is the festival that we've covered a lot for times of Israel because it's a fascinating festival um that uh is mostly something that most people would say does not exist uh people who don't pay attention to to the real world uh minorities in Israel. So it's about Muslim voices living in Israel, Bedawins, Drews. I've seen movies made by Drews Drews people. Um it's marvelous and uh that happens once a year in November. Um, and uh, he also does just the day-to-day. So, he's a cool guy and he's somebody that if if you live in New York and have been to the JCC to see a film, he's the guy that's always introducing it and he does the Q&A after and um, he's someone that we've worked with over the years quite a bit. So, we're going to patch him in and he's going to tell us a little bit more about the festival. In fact, he may even correct me from everything I just said when I just tried to summarize it and he might say, "You kind of got half of it wrong." Which is not out of the ordinary. and then uh you know he he will and then he'll let us know what to look forward to this year. Um now you might say, "Hey, I don't live anywhere near New York. I'm not going to this festival." Like I say, these movies, this is a kind of a sneak peek of movies that will be making its way around the country and eventually on their way to >> You know what I heard? Tell me. Yeah.

[00:43:51]>> If you make it in New York, Yeah.

[00:43:54]>> you can make it anywhere. I heard that somewhere. I mean, they wouldn't lie.

[00:43:57]Catchy.

[00:43:58]>> Frank Sinatra wouldn't lie to you. You know, there was a little bit of a I don't want to say controversy, but there was Frank Sinatra was in the news recently on social media because um you know this well you probably know this and most of our listeners, Frank Sinatra was a great uh fan of the Jewish people and was very helpful to the the state of Israel and actually did help get money to the pre-state of Israel much like the films we were discussing Exodus and um uh to cast a cast a uh cast a giant shadow. In fact, he's in Cast a Giant Shadow. He has one of the funnier scenes. And um you know, there are people online that whose job it is is just to talk about how how Israel is terrible. That's all they do. They make a living out of this. It's one hell of a way to make a living. So, somebody said somebody tried to quote cancel Frank Sinatra from the grave. said, "Did you know that Sinatra smuggled arms or smuggled money into uh the the hands of the Hagana in 1948? Did can you believe that? Think about that the next time you listen to Sinatra at the bar, that dirty Zionist swine." And then Nancy Sinatra, his daughter, was like, "Yeah, sure as hell he did." My dad was great and started sharing all these articles that that were like, you know, I'm a, you know, this is one of his things that he was proud of. And everybody was like, "Oh my god, Nancy Sinatra, holy she's evil. Look at her." So it became a thing. And she's like, "Yeah, think what you want about me, pal." This is my one of my dad was very proud of this thing.

[00:45:27]So >> that's right. And these army boots are made for walking.

[00:45:29]>> Yes. Exactly. Exactly right. By the way, I am I am paraphrasing what Nancy Sinatra said, by the way. She didn't exactly say that, but Nancy Sinatra, who is on social media, caught wind of this little scandal and said, "It's not a scandal to me. This is this is my dad's history. If you don't like it, >> Yeah. through Teddy Collik who was the longtime mayor of Jerusalem. They had quite the connection. Yes. Yes. Yes. We know about this.

[00:45:51]>> They do know that story. But but the internet didn't know. And the the sort of the younger uh crowd who is uh perhaps a little bit u being fed some prop some anti-Israeli propaganda once in a while on social media. I don't know if you've heard, but there is some anti-Israeli propaganda. Uh there's also some pro-Israel propaganda that may sometimes go a little bit over the line.

[00:46:10]I think propaganda in general is something you need to weed through yourself. But I did think it was funny that Sinatra's daughter uh came into the conversation and said, "Not only do I not deny the story, it was something my father was very proud of." I thought that was pretty funny.

[00:46:24]>> So, Sinatra makes several appearances in the Barbara Streand uh autobiography.

[00:46:30]And I think Jordan Hoffman, I'm going to call out to our readers and ask them to recommend to us >> their favorite Barbara Stryson movies because now that I'm reading about everything she ate while she made them, I feel like we should watch them, too.

[00:46:45]>> Yeah. Well, I know, but you've said time and again you don't want to do Yentel on this show.

[00:46:49]>> Yes, I do Yel.

[00:46:51]>> Yel is wonderful. And when you get to the chapters on Yentle, you'll see why we need to talk about it. I am boycotting Yentle for one reason and maybe when I read about her making of Yentle I will change my mind. I am keeping it open. Okay. Okay. Keeping it open.

[00:47:07]>> But it's because >> Mandy Patinkin is an amazing singer. One of my favorite singers ever. And he doesn't sing in Yentle.

[00:47:20]>> The only other singer in Yentle than Barbara Stryson is Amy uh Irving. Right.

[00:47:25]She doesn't sing anything.

[00:47:26]>> She does. She has a and that's about it.

[00:47:29]Like on a Friday night, she's going >> Well, that's that's not She's humming to herself while she's putting on her shoes.

[00:47:35]>> Blowing the candles or something. I think >> that maybe doesn't count. All right, that's a good point. I never noticed that, but you will see why Barbara didn't want to sing herself and she had to to get the movie made.

[00:47:44]>> All right, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. But anyway, listeners, please, if there are any Barbara Stryson movies that you feel like we should be watching in the nearish future, please let us know. Write in.

[00:47:55]>> And also, which is your favorite Barbara album? I like the French album, Juma Pel Barbara, which she talk >> I heard all about that.

[00:48:01]>> Yeah, that one's really good. You should listen to that in the card later today.

[00:48:04]That's a re that is probably my favorite um of her. I mean, some of the stuff in the 70s and 80s, of course, a little schmaltzy for my taste, but the earlier stuff when she's doing classic American standards, the Jerome Karn songs and whatnot, I find them to be very good.

[00:48:19]And when she's singing in French, a language she does not understand, uh, is is is quite good. So, and you learn all about it in the 900page book. Much like Larry Gopnik uh with the ma mathematical formula that never ends. Much like the rabbis in, you know, reading reading the Talmud over and over again, you can read Barbara Stryisen's memoir.

[00:48:39]>> I am >> years and years.

[00:48:41]>> It'll take you forever. It's a very lengthy lengthy uh lengthy text, let me tell you.

[00:48:46]>> Good stuff. All right, Jordan Hoffman, it's been a pleasure as always and I look forward to next week and our guest >> our special guest. Yeah, >> a special guest. So, thank you so much for joining me.

[00:48:55]>> Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Times of Israel's The Realm. Please check out another installment next week.

[00:49:01]If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode or recommendations of Barbara Stryson movies or albums, please send an email to podcast at timesofisrael.com.

[00:49:12]This episode was produced by Ari Schlack. Until next week, shalom.