Senzo Meyiwa Trial: Adv Nxumalo Puts Colonel Thoka Under Pressure

Ajouté : 2026-05-12

[00:00:01]Let us go to exhibit double Z in bracket 9.

[00:00:12]In terms of of that uh exhibit, Kennel, who would have been the cell complex manager in terms of the names that are depicted in that exhibit?

[00:00:23]Who who would have been the cell complex manager on the 2nd of July 2020?

[00:00:29]The CSC commander is his responsibility also in that space.

[00:00:50]That would have been That's correct, man.

[00:00:55]>> What was his rank?

[00:00:57]>> Sergeant.

[00:00:58]>> Oh, you sergeant.

[00:01:03]You also told the court in your evidence that the person or the officer who completed the OB register would have been Can you pronounce that surname? Canon is constable.

[00:01:33]Is he the same person who completes the SAP 14 register?

[00:01:38]>> He's completing all the register that for for for for that particular day >> for everything that is coming because there must be references in the OB that he was writing.

[00:02:00]By all registers, it is inclusive of the SAP 14 register. By all registers, it is inclusive of the SAP 14 register. That's correct, man.

[00:02:13]register >> can in my possession I've got the SAP 14 register of Va police station that is the date of the 2nd of July 2020 I will hand it over to you canel I just have few questions arising from the register Can I swap with that one so that I'll be able to reference I'm more interested connected in the highlighted parts of the SAP 14 register. You will see that portion.

[00:03:08]That's correct.

[00:03:08]>> At the bottom of the page.

[00:03:10]>> That's correct. M.

[00:03:14]>> Is it correct that that entry refers to Bani dance?

[00:03:21]>> Is it correct that entry refers to Bhani dance?

[00:03:24]>> That's correct. Mhan.

[00:03:32]What is the serum number located there?

[00:03:37]is number 12.

[00:03:41]>> Number 12.

[00:03:42]>> Is it correct? The date of the entry is the 2nd of July 2020.

[00:03:46]>> That's correct. My July 2020.

[00:03:51]>> What is the time that he was detained there at Vera Police Station or the date of the time of arrival? I'm sorry. He arrived on the 2nd of July 2020. What is the time of arrival?

[00:04:05]is 2022 is 2200 hours.

[00:04:13]>> That's correct. M20200 hours. Is it also correct that his constitutional rights as well as the notice of right number is allocated there?

[00:04:43]That's correct.

[00:04:49]Is it also correct that the notice of rights was issued on the 2nd of July 2020 that is the SAP 14A that's correct.

[00:05:10]What is the time that the notice of rights in terms of section 35 of the constitution was allocated or explained to him in terms of the SAP 14 register there's no time written here but the I can verify to you that there is OB numbers and also So uh the OB numbers that are reflecting there is it also correct Canelon that you told the court that in respect of the SAP 22 that is the property register it will be recorded in the SAP 10 as well as in the SAP 14 register.

[00:06:08]>> That's correct madam.

[00:06:18]10 SAP 13 >> in terms of that register which is the SCP 14 register of the 2nd of July 2020.

[00:06:28]Is there anything recorded in terms of the SCP 202 as well as SCP 13?

[00:06:35]>> There's nothing recorded my lord.

[00:06:46]No, in in respect of the SAP 22 and the SAP 13, there's nothing recorded.

[00:06:52]>> Let's go ahead.

[00:06:54]>> SAP 22.

[00:06:58]>> What does that entail, Canel?

[00:07:00]>> It entails that there was nothing that was brought with the suspect when it comes to the letter.

[00:07:14]Let us now move to another aspect.

[00:07:18]Canel, you told this court that you are conservant with the procedure in respect of the condition of the SAP 10 register. Is it correct?

[00:07:30]>> That's correct.

[00:07:41]the the background of this case as to where Mr. Nani came from was alluded to by my colleague Mr. the Rams bed. But I want to take you to the OB register that is occurrence book of Ctorra North police station. The entry of the 16th the 16th of June 2020. This was a Tuesday.

[00:08:11]The seran number can maybe I must emphasize this canelon that this is the SAP 10 register of Ptoria North police station not Valeria police station but I want to take you to the date of the 16th of June 2020 which was a Tuesday. The serial number is 467 at 2200 hours for the 2 minutes on the 16th of June 2020.

[00:08:52]2020 serum number 467 220022 maybe for convenience sake for you to follow can I start at ser number 466 at 2200 hours sales visited by warrant officer Masella and warrant officer Matang counted two awaiting trials in custody. One male in cell number seven and all male in cell number six. No complaints.

[00:09:28]You understand that can?

[00:09:29]>> I understand it.

[00:09:45]there's a signature of war officer there as well as his first number and then at ser number 467 at 2200 hours 42 minutes in transito this entry is relevant canel because it um deals with Mr. and dance when you arrive for the first time at Ptorian North K station. It says in transito detective detective sergeant muan of national court cases unit with one male suspect on nong case 163 of 10 2018.

[00:10:25]One bongani SAP 14 64 stroke 6 stroke 2020 SAP 14A S1266765 time of arrest 2100 hours with no injuries contact number of Sergeant Moane is uh documented there detained correctly there's a signature of uh detective sergeant Muan under that entry SAP 142 from what you talk about yesterday.

[00:11:24]Canel I could educate that the there are few important things which must be documented in the entry when the uh the person is um detained. You told this court that there must be the name amongst others uh if I remember very well there must be the name the SAP 14 number as well as the SAP 22 number. Is that correct?

[00:11:50]>> That's correct. My SAP 14 SAP2.

[00:12:07]>> Is it correct that from the entry that I've read to you there is no reference to the SAP 22 number according >> from the entry?

[00:12:19]>> Yes. According to our entry, there's no nothing mentioned relating to the SAPS 22.

[00:12:39]It's ser number 468.

[00:12:42]Time is uh 2300 hours. Canel. I'm still with uh uh with you. Canel on the SAP 10 of Pritoria North police station that is now at 2200 2300 hours in the evening or at night. Cells visited by warrant officer Masa and warrant officer Matang counted three awaiting trial in custody. Two males in cell number seven and one female in cell number six. No complaint. The entry is signed by warrant officer Masella as well as uh there is um his first number there.

[00:13:44]When the cells are visited canel, how many members are allowed to visit the cells?

[00:13:51]>> It will be two members in terms of the rank canal.

[00:14:04]Um for instance in this entry uh both officers who visit the cells at 2300 hours are warrant officers. Uh in terms of the rank both u uh uh officers of the same rank can visit the cells or it should be the warrant officer and the junior which will be the concept.

[00:14:25]What is your understanding?

[00:14:26]>> There is no rank restriction in terms of the services.

[00:14:36]2300 hours.

[00:14:52]You also told the court that the cells are visited hourly at hourly intervals. Do you confirm that?

[00:15:00]>> That's correct, Milo.

[00:15:11]at serial number 469 that is a Wednesday the 17th of June 2020 at 000000 that is at 12 midnight sales inspected it says sales inspection held by warrant officer Masen Warren Officer Matang.

[00:15:38]One, three prisoners in custody. Two, two males in cell number seven. Three.

[00:15:46]One female in cell number six. Four cell one toilet inside number one working.

[00:15:54]Five. Cell number four toilet inside number four working. Cell number six toilet inside number one working seven. Cell number seven toilet outside number one working. All cell lights are working.

[00:16:15]Nine. Four cells kills. It is uh signed by warrant officer Masa. There's also the force number of warrant officer cells are also visited under serial numbers 470 at 1 in the morning of the 17th of June 2020.

[00:17:10]Um it is a documented the very same uh as it was in the previous entries that cells are visited by war officer Masela and War officer Matang who counted three awaiting trials in custody. Two males in cell number seven and one female in cell number six. No complaints. It is signed by one officer Masella. There's also the first number of summer20.

[00:18:04]Can cells are visited at I'm not going to go through this whole register for convenience sake but at entry or ser number 471 at 2 hours 13 minutes sales are visited as before as well as in ser number 472 at 300 at 3 in the morning of the 17th of June 2020 cells are visited head and as a consequence nothing is found at serial number 473 at 4 in the morning cells are visited as before the circumstances are the same cells are also visited at seran number 474 at 5 in the morning of the 17th of June 2020 and the circumstances are as before >> I knew 471 4723.

[00:19:29]17th 2020 and then on the 18th of June 2020 which was a Thursday at ser number 516 time is 6 hours 22 minutes that is now on the morning of the 18th of June 2020 was a Thursday.

[00:19:54]Cells are visited by Captain Kubu and Waranda officer Matan and Constable Motabia with eight prisoners in custody as follows. Cell number six, one female.

[00:20:09]Cell number seven, seven men's including one suspect in transit Nonga case 168 of 10 2018. One suspect not yet charged.

[00:20:21]One NP still outstanding.

[00:20:26]Sells clean.

[00:20:29]That entry is also signed by Captain Ku. There's also his first number there. Do you understand that?

[00:20:38]Are we still following Canel?

[00:20:40]>> I'm I'm following it directly. Am I allowed?

[00:20:46]18202.

[00:21:01]Obviously, on the 18th of June 2020, still on a Thursday at entry 5, sorry, at serial number 520 at 8:15 in the morning.

[00:21:34]Investigation out. Detective Sergeant Moane booked out. One main suspect out on Nong Case 163 of 10 2018. One Bongan SAPS 1464 stroke 6 stroke 2020. SAP 14A S1266765 without any injuries. correctly received by detective sergeant Muhammad is also his first number. Are you following? Can >> I follow my law?

[00:22:25]And then on the 19th of June lastly on this canel on the 19th of June 2020 and this was a Friday at serial number 528 at 000000 that is 12 midnight sales inspection held by constable nua Two prisoners in custody, one in cell 7 and the other one booked out for investigation.

[00:22:51]Sells keys in the safe sells registers in the cell prisoners prop property as per SAPS 22 correctly. Um that is uh the entry is signed by um detective conible Neville Funga and there's also his first number.

[00:23:14]to your father.

[00:23:14]>> I'm following all the entry made in my So in summary or in short candidate I've taken you through the dates of the 16th the 17th and the 18th the 19th when the cells were visited that is the puran north police station police for the cells were visited on on various occasions do you confirm that that's correct my lord In the normal cause of events, Kennel, if there is an exhibit, for instance, a cell phone which is found during the cell visit, what will happen to that exhibit or the the cell phone?

[00:24:18]The cell phone will be immediately being recorded in the prisoner's property during the visit.

[00:24:42]Um the names of police officers who had recovered uh that cell phone or the exhibit, will they be recorded also in any registers?

[00:24:53]>> It will be recorded into in the OB entry. That's that's the name that's the name of the the name of the uh police officers who will be uh recording those exit.

[00:25:18]current.

[00:25:20]>> Do you know when will that entry be made? Will it be made at the time when the cells are visited?

[00:25:26]>> It will be made as soon as it is recovered. Not as when the service is visited as the as in when they recovered that cell phone. All right.

[00:25:48]In the absence of any record in the SAP uh 10 register as to who if there is any exhibit uh a cell phone recovered in the absence of such recorder what will that entail?

[00:26:00]>> It means that during their visit or during their uh cell inspection >> there was nothing that they found wrong with the suspect that they had inspected. Fore speech.

[00:26:32]can the states took us through exhibit DD5 sorry DT5 in bracket in bracket Roman fica one which is the section 205 records in respect of uh the number 276091 6890.

[00:27:07]The the state is alleging that that number is uh the number of uh Mr. Dansancy before court. So I'm I'm I'm having here in my possession the section 205 records in respect of that number.

[00:27:20]You you follow? Yes, I'm follow you.

[00:27:36]I'm also can in possession here. It is exhibit DD5. Exhibit DD5.

[00:27:42]Correctly. So kel you were not here but it is an affidavit which was compiled by your former colleague Lieutenant Kennel.

[00:27:53]Sorry not former by Lieutenant Kennel host Edon Host. It also contains the the contact numbers which were retrieved from the number ending 6890.

[00:28:07]Are you still following?

[00:28:08]>> I'm following mad.

[00:28:24]With with that understanding can there's also evidence before the court that Mr. Nans was detained at your police station that is Vera police station on the 2nd of July 2020. Do you still follow?

[00:28:37]>> That's correct. Milo July 2020. So in essence kind of the version of the state is that during the period I'm now uh uh uh taking you with reference to exhibit DD5 in bracket Roman figure sorry in bracket E in bracket Roman figure one in bracket. So in essence can the the version of the state is that during the period starting from the 1 of September 2020 at 1700 hours 42 minutes 30 seconds up to up to the 30th of November 2020 at 2300 hours 15 minutes 25 seconds this this no I'm sorry start from page one of 200 my not it's page one of 200 it is case number it is case number 103127 7.

[00:30:09]It starts from page one. I'm sorry, my start from page one of 200.

[00:30:14]It starts on the 1st of se September 2020 at 1 hour 09 minutes 33 seconds up to page just a moment up to page 142 of 200 at sorry on the 30th of November 2020 2300 hours 15 minutes 25 seconds. So in essence can what the state is saying on various occasions or and times Mr. Nanzi that is now the version of the state Mr. Nani was in contact with some uh persons who appear from the list the contact list in exhibit DT5 Roman figure sorry DT5 in bracket.

[00:31:08]So this communication was between the period of the 1st of September to the 30th of November 2020.

[00:31:17]Do you still follow? I'm following my September 2020.

[00:31:40]142 until 31 November 2020.

[00:31:52]>> I must also mention to you Kenel that the state is saying that is the version of the state that this communication happened when the accused that is Mr. and dance was at Valera police station and the cell name that is a tower is 3 3G Queenswood NGA.

[00:32:12]Do you still follow? I'm still following my queen.

[00:32:30]you your evidence can is that during the the period when Mr. Dans was in detention at Valeria police station there was no SAP 22 that is the property his property that was uh recorded in the SIP 10 register as well as the SAP 14 >> that's correct my lord You also testified that during his period of detention at Valeria Police Station, you you did not receive any information that Mr. Nani was found in possession of a cell phone during the cell's visit or the cell inspection at the time of his detention. Is that correct?

[00:33:21]>> That's correct.

[00:33:34]that will also input the the the date that the police are alleging that the cell phone was found which is the sec 7th of February 2021. Up to that date you did not receive any information uh or reports that Mr. Dan was found in possession of a cell phone whilst he was in dension at your police station.

[00:33:56]That's correct. Ma20 with that understanding in mind and the background can that table to you. What will be your comment then therefore about the section 205 records that the state according to the state version uh uh I've told the court about >> the in terms of my religion the tower >> to make an opinion my daughter to speculate the copies >> yes they're complaining they say you're making submissions regarding evidence which you never hit.

[00:34:57]>> I'm I'm lost. I'm lost. I did not understand.

[00:34:59]>> Yeah. Just repeat the thing. Just repeat your objection.

[00:35:02]>> I did not understand objection.

[00:35:04]>> Yeah. Let him repeat it.

[00:35:06]>> My submission is that Mr. Normal is now inviting the witness to make an opinion or speculations. Okay.

[00:35:14]Thank you my lord. It is not an opinion or a speculation. I'm inviting a witness if he has a comment because there's if he has a comment to comment on the evidence that is before court. I'm inviting the witness to do that. There's evidence before this court. My lord. So I'm inviting the witness to comment on the evidence that is before court.

[00:35:37]>> To be fair to this witness. Did you tell this witness that Mrs. uh it's Mrs. >> Are you feeling him?

[00:35:48]>> Not not filling in. So it's okay about that. The lady the lady they normally call Mrs. Mundis >> Mah that he also made a statement to the fact that he went there and found those. It's fair to tell him that Muan >> Muani.

[00:36:05]>> Yes.

[00:36:06]>> It's fair to tell him that Mrs. Muani says he went there and he herself she found the blah blah blah blah. Are you with me?

[00:36:14]>> I'm with you Milo.

[00:36:15]>> That's it.

[00:36:16]>> I'm still coming to that. I'm basically going there.

[00:36:18]>> The point is we haven't we haven't yet come to that. That's why I'm saying this witness must be told the whole information not drips and draps. Yeah, but what about the objection my there's two constructing versions before?

[00:36:30]There's two constructing versions which were which are mut which the one is made by me because he wasn't even aware of that. Were you aware of that?

[00:36:40]>> I am away my lord.

[00:36:41]>> Yeah, but you never thought to verbalize it like I did.

[00:36:46]>> May maybe maybe I must I must go to where the court wants me to go before I can come. No, you will you will never go where I want to go because I've got a very broad mind.

[00:36:56]>> Mine is still fresh.

[00:37:01]>> Yeah, maybe it could be fresh. I don't know what is is fresh with >> but let me let me for convenience sake my lord let me go there because so that I can reverse uh reverse uh or revert to this question.

[00:37:17]Canel.

[00:37:18]>> Sorry. Just just so that we we all Where is that phone?

[00:37:23]>> Yeah, we we were discussing it. My >> No, no, no. I just want to know this witness must know where that phone is >> so that he can comment.

[00:37:32]>> Canelon, just to be short and and and sweet >> to the point. Do you know where is that phone?

[00:37:38]>> I have no idea of any phone.

[00:37:40]>> Where is it?

[00:37:42]>> Do you know where is it?

[00:37:43]>> I have no idea where is it.

[00:37:46]I thought I had evidence where that phone was. Is that correct, Mr. Baloy?

[00:37:50]Is that >> correct? My my lord, the phone was sent to Midn to Warren officing >> and it was downloaded blah blah >> downloaded the evidence was presented.

[00:38:01]>> So that phone is that phone is leaving and kicking like me. Okay.

[00:38:22]My lord, I don't know how to progress now because issues are being raised whilst I'm I'm still questioning the witness.

[00:38:28]>> No, no, no. Fine. You had you heard I I want to be fair to this witness because he may be laboring under the impression that that phone is nowhere. Is that not the impression you had? That's that's that's the >> that's it. But the point is they say the phone is there and it was downloaded at Middlebe by two experts DVU and some guy called Kumar or whatever.

[00:38:55]So that is the evidence I know I listen to.

[00:39:01]Maybe I'll leave that issue for argument because I will not understand my lord the relevancy of where the phone is in relation to the questions that I'm posing to this witness.

[00:39:11]He know he knows he knows the re You don't know the relevance of knowing where the food No wait. Don't you know the relevancy of where the phone is?

[00:39:19]>> I I've just said it now my lord.

[00:39:22]>> Yeah. Is it not relevant?

[00:39:23]>> It's relevant my lord.

[00:39:24]>> Please m it's relevant.

[00:39:28]>> Yeah. Okay. You can go on.

[00:39:36]>> I see that.

[00:39:37]>> You can go there. No problem.

[00:39:39]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[00:40:24]What's your time, Mr. >> 20? 20 3.

[00:40:28]>> Are we joining until tomorrow? What?

[00:40:29]>> No, there's still 10 minutes uh remaining. So, I can exhaust the 10 minutes.

[00:40:34]>> No, the point is are you going to be finishing today? Oh, tomorrow >> with this witness >> whichever witness >> I doubt if we'll be able to finish this witness at this time. There's 10 minutes remaining before we we knock off.

[00:40:48]>> Yeah. So, let's agend. Okay, we can agend. Thank you.