|JKL | FUEL: HORNS OF A DILEMMA| PART 3

追加: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]And welcome back to Jeff Kaggi live here at Citizen Television on the bench.

[00:00:04]Today we're talking about a very serious topic. Fuel prices have just gone through the roof. Although EPRA says according to the president, VAT has come down to 8% and now fuel prices have been reduced. You heard some breaking news right here on the bench. So super will be down by nine shillings, diesel by 10 shillings starting from midnight tonight according to engineer Edwin Kenua right here next to me. Right next to him the chairman of the finance and national planning committee in the national assembly. Kuryakimman who's also the MP for Malo. Right next to him Albert Karaka he's the president of the Matatu Owners Association. And on the far end, the man who crunches the numbers, deoro, all the way from Kiharo. Gentlemen, we continue this conversation. And you talk about the G2G, right? And I've got some names of companies. You know, correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:01:01]>> Go ahead, man.

[00:01:02]>> There's Saudi Aramco, there's Abu Dhabi, there's one called an and knock. And then their local partners, one of them is Gulf Energy.

[00:01:12]You've talked about that before. And then B energy as well. And there's probably a couple of others.

[00:01:18]>> Do you want me to tell you the truth?

[00:01:20]>> Tell me the truth, brother.

[00:01:22]>> Are you going to bear it?

[00:01:23]>> Huh?

[00:01:24]>> Are you going to bear it?

[00:01:25]>> I I can handle the truth.

[00:01:28]>> Now, this is the fact.

[00:01:32]Remember all the hubris and all the other PR around it.

[00:01:38]Previously in Kenya all used to be competitive even including the importation.

[00:01:46]But from 2023 a cabal of people sat in a dark room and came up with a program called G toG >> government to government.

[00:01:57]>> That is where the problem actually lies because only side one side is government. Saudi Aramco is the largest oil company in the world actually >> owned by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

[00:02:10]>> Adnok from UAE. So all those represent G which is government. The G in Kenya does not represent any government. There is no government to government deal. It is government of Saudi Arabia, government and UAE versus political patronage versus political profitering versus abuse of power. The people who benefit out of G2G in Kenya are people you have watched today and covered on news. So let's put it plainly that G2G is a cabal. It is a scam for people well positioned in power to freeze Kenyans of money from oil at a line there. And if anyone has conflicting information, I am ready to face them on the bench with Jeff Kyang.

[00:03:05]>> Those companies you have mentioned there are a vehicles of patronage. The people recorded there as directors are a faces go deeper to something called ultimate beneficial owners. And there is no coincidence that the same companies that deals with G2G are the same companies which have taken over Kenyan resources in Truana in oil.

[00:03:31]The same companies for Taloo for Taloo took over their assets almost for a song because of political patronage and that is the fact. It is purely a vehicle for people to make money not out of competition but out of political patronage. Tomorrow let me remind you as you cry in the pump the leadership in this country will be celebrating profits they are making from G to G.

[00:03:59]>> Why aren't you mentioning namely names?

[00:04:01]>> Um >> I don't want to do your work as a journalist and an investigative one for that matter.

[00:04:05]>> So so so >> you don't even to dig deep scratch the surface you see the facts. So just ahead of me two three years finance 23 the house.

[00:04:51]You may not be able to bring out the facts.

[00:05:04]But I remember very well So 23 The floor of the house.

[00:05:58]change sides.

[00:06:03]So hypocrisy from 8% to 16%.

[00:06:23]Section rate up to 25%.

[00:06:35]13% make a decision% 8% 16%.

[00:07:23]Let him deny he was among the people that voted to change VAT on fuel from 8% to 16%.

[00:07:45]distributors.

[00:08:03]Proveid Are you going to give the person importing the oil?

[00:08:52]That full sub was not working public participation.

[00:09:11]market coming to you. That's why I'm insisting over and over with all due respect that when we are facing Kenyans at the very basics, we face them sober for one reason. One is that I wish my good brother is listening to himself talking about consistency.

[00:09:53]>> Let me play the clip >> that in this show today now >> let me play the clip. His opening remarks >> was that you do not need any parliament >> no >> to deal with the pronouncement that was done by the president >> that here in this bench himself same mouth he's now again saying >> that >> so you want to do the work for Jeff you can first do it then I do the >> then let me play let me play the clip >> from 2020 I think he >> we had subsidies this other time we had subsidies that at the time I am the chairman of budget in the national assembly and I want to call to to to confirm to the Kenyan people the subsidy you hear that was there the subsidy in terms of oil the subsidy in terms of I can confirm even the subsidy of oil is being paid by none other than his excellency William and this administration >> what we enjoyed then is postponed subsidies >> enjoyment was then the payment is now.

[00:11:01]As we talk even the subsidy we enjoyed last year 40 billion shillings in subsidies of fuel it is being paid by this current administration and therefore we are not trying to blame anyone but it is responsible for us to tell the Kenyan people where we are so that we also appreciate where we are headed now.

[00:11:26]Kenya and all of us will appreciate where we are headed. higher now very good that you know that's why it it is even laughable Jeff and I'm repeating to my own brother again maybe we'll talk after this show >> that there is some decorum that we must keep on facing >> yeah sure sure >> one let me go back to where I was >> consistency >> sure >> that in the same show he talked about the pronouncement about VAT does not need any parliament before the show is over he has changed >> no no no I 105%.

[00:12:00]>> Yes.

[00:12:02]>> Are you the owner of the show?

[00:12:03]>> I am.

[00:12:03]>> So, please let me talk 100%.

[00:12:06]>> So, the the the the the in the same show he has already changed the clip you have played there.

[00:12:15]>> What does that tell you about myself?

[00:12:16]>> Mhm.

[00:12:17]>> I was the chairman of budget >> who allocated money for the fuel subsidy.

[00:12:21]>> Mhm.

[00:12:22]>> If you listen to that clip, I am actually saying there was no enough money then. But it is during when I was chairman of budget that the money for subsidy was availed. And it is the same thing I'm saying today that the Kenyan people deserve this subsidy because the spiral effect of having very elevated prices in the fuel prices is untenable.

[00:12:44]That's point number two. I was to do an opening remark when we were we were to come back from the break. You are doing Kenyans a great injustice. Jeff, >> how so?

[00:12:53]>> I'm here watching we are watching JKL here. I'm looking at the TV.

[00:12:57]>> Yes.

[00:12:57]>> All of you have fallen into the propaganda of this government that you are now running here that has reduced all prices. Which has reduced all prices? All prices are up from yesterday to today in Kenya.

[00:13:10]>> But this is what we got from >> it is exactly what I started by saying we have a conniving government which has already taken you through the slippery pal. So we are now in this show.

[00:13:20]Yesterday Kenyas we are paying around 180 shillings to petrol. They are now paying over 190 to pay over 195 to petrol. But the live stations in TV are running here that there is there is field decree there is a decrease in fuel prices in Kenya. Please don't fall into those fallacies where you make things so bad that how the government does it. So when you make things so bad then you make them slightly better you want people to close shop and start celebrating. We just committed what we just heard from Ebra.

[00:13:54]>> Number three, >> hold on. Hold on. Wish >> number three.

[00:13:59]>> Guys, had discussions you can be able to conclude and I'm telling you that respectively G2G I want to repeat G toG is a scam and that the beneficiaries of G2G are sitting in high offices in the Republic of Kenya.

[00:14:22]three on the same issue of G2G.

[00:14:25]That is the same fact that the same people in the upstream are the same people in the midstream and the downstream of the oil sector in Kenya, vehicles of patronage. The same people making profits as Kenyans cry today >> out of G2G.

[00:14:45]>> Engineer.

[00:14:45]>> No, no, no. Let me finish. They are the same people who have taken over Kenyan's resources in Ghana. And lastly, you mentioned two companies, not even me.

[00:14:55]>> Can you mention the two local companies right there?

[00:14:58]>> Mention.

[00:14:59]Can I finish?

[00:15:00]>> I'll mention B energy.

[00:15:02]>> B Energy. I want you to check today.

[00:15:06]The second I don't even want it to come from my mouth because I'm a politician.

[00:15:10]Can you read it for people to see? There are two companies you read. One is >> I said Golf Energy.

[00:15:14]>> Second >> B Energy. This is now the fact the one you read first is the vehicle of patronage of the original government as it was from 2022.

[00:15:26]The people profiting from G2G and the margins of oil in Kenya is 17 shillings and they are taking a slice of that and another slice out of the lading cost.

[00:15:37]Those people are a part of this government. Secondly, the second company read it then I tell you about it. BNG.

[00:15:44]>> That company was part of the negotiations of the current hardship.

[00:15:49]When the people of Kenya came out in the streets in 2024 >> and the people talked about the issues they wanted done, the leaders discarded those issues, got into a room, shared the spoils. That is why if you check when that second company was added into the list of G2G was after this mogil of government because it was a reward to the then position and I want you to check who are the people who own that company you have mentioned political patronage profitering out of power and this thing is sinful at best >> engineer I'll get you engineer go on I >> I think I'll I'll I'll speak as a technocrat I will not put the politics that are being discussed on this table uh because uh we saw G2G from day one and we know what problems this country was going through before G2G came in as a system of importation of petroleum. I think when his excellency the president uh was into office, I think even that Saturday he normally gives that example that Saturday before he was sworn in, oil marketers called on him because he was getting briefings from government and there was handover process. But guess what? The first people who wanted to see him were oil marketing companies and they told him we in a fix. We can't get dollars. I have a requirement of $20,000 in a day, but I only able to access at the maximum $5,000. How many marketers do we have? We have 145 marketers. That time it could have been 150. All these marketers because oil cost was being paid in dollars >> because the importer will bring the product. They have paid the supply in dollars. You have to pay the importer in dollars so that he can be able to pay back the supplier. you've opened an a letter of credit. So that letter of credit when the cargo lands here you supposed to pay it within 5 days and we were depending on a sport market and let me tell you Jeff I think we take this matters lightly but the amount of money the private sector spends in terms of oil payment per month is to the tune of $500 million.

[00:18:05]Five private money no government coin in it. So when these guys went to see his excellency they said we can't access dollars his excellencies summoned the entire government including CBK including ourselves as a regulator and as where is the problem and he was told currently the dollars have left the market you know the FedEx that time was very high and you see dollars were being mopped from uh the frontier markets going back to the US so they were in very little demand and because of the system we had then oil had to be paid in dollars. A ship would come to Mombasa and spend 3 weeks. So when a ship is waiting in Mombasa for 3 weeks and you are paying the marriage equivalent to about that $1,000 a day, could you multiply that? You tell me who was being exposed to the high prices the consumer.

[00:18:55]And that's when his excellency requested his team of advisers including other government technocrats, can you give me a solution? And there were a lot of discussions around what can be done. The G2G system like we have here had never been tried and tested anywhere. We are the first ones to do it as a country especially in this region. And I'll come to what has been done in terms of even benchmarking by other countries. We've seen the Malawi, we've seen Burundi come here to check and benchmark on the G2G.

[00:19:28]And basically now uh when that system was crafted then of course there were discussions that went in with the governmentowned companies and here you've mentioned about Abu Dhabi National Oil Company. You mentioned about Emirates National Oil Company which you call Enoch and you've also mentioned about Aramco trading Fujira.

[00:19:48]Those are companies that are owned one is owned by the government of Saudi Arabia, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Then we have a government of uh UA which owns the other two. Uh the question that was being asked because now I'm coming to the companies that they nominated for you to import oil in Kenya, you must have a license. You must be licensed by EPRA ourselves. Those companies were given an option. You either establish a subsidiary here and is licensed by EPRA because you can't bring the oil into the country without a license. And they said that's none of our business. We are suppliers. So the question they were asked then because this is a G2G arrangement, can we then nominate our national oil company? And I'm coming to question of Mishima. Those guys said they have we have we have not dealt with national oil companies, the national oil company corporation of Kenya on a transaction of this magnitude. We don't know them. So they were asked then and actually Jeff what they said you cannot choose a counterparty for us. I am putting a ship worth $100 million into the waters and I don't know my counterparty. What happens if that anything happens to that cargo the performance risk? Who is with the performance risk? And that's when they said if we cannot be allowed to choose a counterparty which we can work with because remember these are the same companies who are supplying under the old system. So they had partners which they were working with and they said I know Jeff in Kenya I've dealt with him.

[00:21:19]I've done his KYC. He cannot default.

[00:21:23]And you see, if I give you an LC and that LC is not honored, I have lost $100 million. Who would you take that risk as an international oil company?

[00:21:32]>> What about Kenya Pipeline Company? Why not use that?

[00:21:35]>> Kenya Pipeline Company is not a trader.

[00:21:37]Their work is transportation of petroleum. In fact, if you look at their license, their license reads transport and storage of petroleum products. They have never traded, >> but it's a receiver. And I'm sure even if you presented the name Kenya pipeline, they would have to go through a vetting process. And from that is when we got letters of nomination from the international oil companies >> nominating three companies. Initially we had a company called Orex Energies.

[00:22:04]>> Mhm.

[00:22:05]>> Uh then we had a company called Galana Energies Limited. Then we had Gulf Energy >> Limited. And then later on three other companies were added where the other company was one petroleum.

[00:22:18]You know they added subsequently in fact even now nothing stops the IOC we call them the international oil company from nominating other people. So they added one petroleum they added a synergy and they also added B energy. This is after the Gen Z demonstrations >> and and and and the adding of any counterparty there is the forte of the IOC because this they sign a supply and purchase agreement that whenever the government of Kenya wants a quantity of oil, you are my counterparty. You will shield me against a performance risk. So they said if we cannot be allowed to choose our counterparties, let this thing die down. And for sure when the G2G came and uh since uh April 2023 we've delivered about over 200 caros under G2G. What my brother is not telling you is that in G2G the freight and premium which used to be a floating figure during the open tender system is a fixed figure. Initially I'll give an example. Initially we had super petrol at a premium of $9750 per ton. Then there was a renegotiation.

[00:23:30]They brought it down to $90 per ton cuz the contract allows us to renegotiate those premiums. Then another renegotiation happened. We are now currently at $84 per ton. If you go to the market today, Jeff, and this is common knowledge. Look at the tender results for Tanzania. They at $250 a ton. That is what you would be buying a a a ton of oil in terms of freight and premium. 250. We at 84. Diesel moved from 118.

[00:24:02]It came down to 88. Now we at 78.

[00:24:06]So the advantage we have of G2G is the fixed premium that we are enjoying now which would have exposed the public to a higher pump price if we were to go to the open market. Of course we know that payment of petroleum products now instead of paying them in dollars you are paying them in Kenya shillings which has basically stabilized the shilling initially because of this artificial demand that was there 150 companies were looking for dollars and the banks thought there's too much demand 150 maybe you are going to 10 banks as an oil marketing company so they think this that demand and the rate kept on depreciating who knows where the rate would be today >> okay let me go Albert before I go to you my cuz I know you want to say something Albert real quick >> that 25% hike where did that come from what >> I think we have a committee within the matter >> this committee of yours man >> and they are the ones who decided committees like you and two people >> what we are saying h can politicians uh because you see the problem we are having here we have technocrats who are supposed to be pushing the issue of the but we can see a lot of interference >> with politicians why don't they politicians let the techno technocrats do what they are supposed to be doing so that we can get good results going forward because uh corruption in this country is killing our economy let's come to the that issue fuel you remember what the president said the cartel we'll want to see those cartel in so that at the end of the day we know this is what is happening we want the president to to weep right now not to wait because people are suffering outside there not only about the fuel go to other commodities is even right now if you go to the supermarket you'll get the the it has gone up because of the fuel because of the hike yesterday walk into the supermarket right now you'll see what is happening when you say that we reduce the the the fair if you go to the spares the VAT is still there if you go to buying of that vehicle the VAT is still there so what we are urging the government they need to do something because our work if you go to other country we are not supposed to be carrying passengers. It's supposed to be the government doing it. But we've decided as private sector to do it. They need to support the the industry.

[00:26:25]>> If you go if you you check around, you'll see the president supporting churches. Why don't he come and support the matter to industry?

[00:26:34]>> Because we want support. Yeah. When you talk about the issue of road safety and you increase the issue of the fuel, you see our drivers will try to move faster so that we can make that money.

[00:26:46]>> Yeah. But don't forget church is nonprofit. You people see we are we if if you go deeper into the to the mat sector right now we are not making profit. Yeah. We are not because you see the the police is there about corruption. Go to the county government of Nairobi. There is still there there is corruption going on. So what we are saying the president needs to keep right now so that as we move on to the election we are not politicians we will be seeing what is coming up because as as businessmen we want to make profit.

[00:27:18]>> Yeah.

[00:27:19]>> Okay. So, so, so Jeff Andry.

[00:27:58]Let me be honest.

[00:28:15]2017 Finance Media 2024.

[00:28:39]Yes.

[00:28:41]So the finance How did he become so intelligent all of a sudden?

[00:29:24]Can you give us a 12? Can you tell us who the beneficial owners are?

[00:29:31]One of the key beneficial owners of increase in fuel prices is Kenya Lightning Company where he owns 26 million shares public domain. So capture Kenya Power Enlightening Company Limited.

[00:30:09]The greatest number of amount of dividends, the most single most paid shareholder.

[00:30:19]>> Can I now come in?

[00:30:20]>> No.

[00:30:21]>> 28 million shares.

[00:30:26]>> Boo. Okay. Can I come in?

[00:30:28]>> Not yet.

[00:30:30]>> I'm going to take a break. Hold that thought cuz I know you want to come in guns blazing.

[00:30:36]>> Oh man.

[00:30:41]What a great conversation. Didding your here, Albert Kagaraka. We've got Kurya Kimmani and engineer Edwin Kenua. We're having conversation about fuel and prices and what's the way forward. Keep tweeting at Kanga Jeff at Citizen TV Live. Check it live takes a break. We'll be back in a moment.