I Used Superman to Explain Why the Trinity Doesn't Make Sense

[00:00:00]Do you think Clark Kent and Superman are two persons or one person? Why would God turn over control to Satan?

[00:00:07]>> He didn't turn over control to Satan.

[00:00:09]Satan >> Satan put him in the cuff chair. Yeah, sure. So then Satan beat the [ __ ] out of God. It sounds >> Hey, how's it going?

[00:00:15]>> Snap. You actually let me up. That's crazy.

[00:00:18]>> Hey, what's up, man? My name is Ian as well. Just letting you know.

[00:00:21]>> Whoa, that's cool. Whoa. Ian Solidarity.

[00:00:23]Uh, yeah. What religion are you? Um, I don't believe in religion cuz all religions are biased to too many opinions. I'm just straight up relationship with Jesus and just uh just the faith of what he's done in my life.

[00:00:37]>> Spiritual.

[00:00:38]>> Sure. Uh, what makes you think that uh God exists?

[00:00:41]>> Well, let me ask you one question real quick before we get into that. What's your end goal? What's your end goal with these lives every time you're on here?

[00:00:48]>> Um, I think that the end goal with the lives, so there's like a couple of things. Um, you know, I I uh am really interested in truth, the pursuit of truth. Uh, I also love philosophy. It's something that I wish I could do every single day. Um, and you know, this allows me a way to do that. You know, I get to talk about philosophy in a way that is um potentially like sustainable over time. You know, I have ambitions of one day going to grad school and getting a philosophy degree. Doing all of this helps me like monetize my interest in philosophy. Um, it's I don't know.

[00:01:19]There's there's a lot of reasons >> cuz I've realized when I come across lives like this, most of the time the host is very educated with stuff like that and then that Christians that come up to try and defend their faith, they're not as educated with those things and all they have is their faith, >> you know, and so that's kind of where I'm at too because I've heard all the questions you've been asking and how you kind of go deep into these topics and I'm like, man, this guy is smart. Like, he knows what he's doing when it comes to defending his point. But do you think that there's only one do you think there's only one right answer to all of this?

[00:01:50]>> Uh well, yeah. There's going to be some fact of the matter, right? Either God exists or he doesn't.

[00:01:55]>> And what is your I would say personal reasoning, but what what is your reasoning for believing that God does not exist?

[00:02:02]>> There's like quite a few. Um okay, let me make this like super simple. Um the the types and quantity of suffering that we see around us is just radically unexpected if God exists. So, let's say that you and I Whoa, wait. That evil exists.

[00:02:18]>> Yeah, I do. So, let's say that you and I are traveling to a kingdom and we hear that the king is he's he's just and he's wise and he's powerful. But as we arrive at the kingdom, we see the bodies of men, women, and children just strewn about on lamposts. Well, maybe he's not as, you know, maybe he doesn't know about the killings, but then he's not as wise as we once thought. Or maybe he does know about the killings, but he doesn't have the power to stop them. In which case, he's not as powerful as we once thought. Or maybe he does know about the killings and does have the power to stop them, but just chooses not to. In which case, maybe he's not as good as we once thought. Irregardless, we come away with the conclusion, sorry for saying irregardless, but regardless, we come away with the conclusion that, you know, there probably just isn't like a like a good, wise, powerful king that's in charge of this kingdom. Likewise, you know, I look to the world around me, I see earthquake, cancer, you know, some people get raped to death. I just can't help but come away with the conclusion that it doesn't seem like this is the sort of world that's being governed by a good wise powerful God.

[00:03:22]>> So let me let me let me tell you something. The world isn't governed by God. God created everything but now the dominion belongs to Satan.

[00:03:29]>> Why would God do that?

[00:03:31]>> I'm going to just spread the gospel right here. Jesus came to die.

[00:03:35]>> But can be through him.

[00:03:37]>> Wait. Sorry. Before you do that, wait, sorry. Wait. Sorry. Wait. Sorry. Wait.

[00:03:40]Sorry. Wait. Sorry. Why would God turn over control to Satan?

[00:03:44]>> He didn't turn over control to Satan.

[00:03:46]Satan >> Did Satan put him in the cup chair?

[00:03:48]Yeah, sure. So then Satan beat the [ __ ] out of God. It sounds >> No, because God beat Satan 100%.

[00:03:55]>> Then how does Satan control the earth?

[00:03:57]>> And look, bro, if you think about it, like God created humans also with the intention of showing Satan that we can actually be better than him.

[00:04:04]>> We can actually choose to believe in God and choose to believe that he's real despite all the evil in this world. Let me read you a verse. There doesn't Wait, wait, sorry. Before you do that, that doesn't seem to be an explanation. I'm unclear as to how Satan began to be in control of the earth. Like, let's go back to the king example, cuz I think that this is like really elucidating.

[00:04:20]Let's say, let's say that the king has like an evil son, and the king knows that his son is like evil and cruel and then the king for some reason puts his son in charge of the kingdom. Well, in this circumstance too, I would assume that the king is not wise, powerful, and just.

[00:04:39]Hold on one second. Yeah, I know. I get what you're saying, man. I get what you're saying. I feel like as humans, we focus too much on what's evil and we try to kind of just stick to that and be like, why is God doing all this stuff?

[00:04:48]Rather than being like, you know what, reveal yourself to me through the power of your Holy Spirit? And tell me why things are like this. Why the heck do we have to go through all of this suffering, Lord Jesus? Why?

[00:05:00]>> Show me that is But that is like I feel like most people can't bring themselves to do that. You feel what I'm saying?

[00:05:07][snorts] like on their face. Look, they can't.

[00:05:10]>> Hey, Lord Jesus, we were wondering um why would you let kids die of cancer?

[00:05:14]>> You're doing it out of like mockery.

[00:05:16]>> Prove it. No, I'm not. I'm genuinely asking for an explanation. Nope, that's not true. I just genuinely ask people.

[00:05:23]>> So, okay. What? You set up a criteria for how we could figure this out. I met the criteria. So, now you need to pivot and say, "Well, you're you're being disingenuous about it." That's not true.

[00:05:34][gasps] >> But that's the thing. Like look, let me give you a stupid analogy really quick.

[00:05:37]In cartoon things, it's like it'll only happen if you believe. If you believe things will come true, but then there are people that are like, "Oh, whatever.

[00:05:45]Yeah, I believe it." And it never comes true for them. But if you truly believe, you have to believe in the unknown.

[00:05:51]That's what happened to me, man. I was we people who grew up in the church be like, "You got to worship God. You got to go to church. You got to pray." And it becomes like this rule book of like things that if you don't do it, you go to hell. And that's how I grew up knowing God. God.

[00:06:03]>> Maybe we could do it like this because you said you say that you've reached out to God >> and asked him to explain some of the suffering. So I don't know like why does God >> I'm saying that you could do that if you wanted to.

[00:06:14]>> Wait, could you do that and then come back with an answer? So here's what I'm wondering. I'm wondering why God would allow So there's this horrible disease called lean syndrome that causes 2-year-olds to stab like sharp objects into their eyes. They gouge their own eyes out compulsively. Demons exist.

[00:06:29]Sorry. This actually comes about via mutations. The mutations stem directly from cellular anatomy. I'm curious as to why God would design the cellular anatomy in a way that necessitates mutations that cause 2-year-olds to gouge their own eyes out.

[00:06:42]>> He didn't create that.

[00:06:43]>> Okay. Where did it come from?

[00:06:44]>> Satan.

[00:06:45]>> So, he's not the creator of all things as it says in the Bible.

[00:06:49]>> He didn't create sin. Heaused sin.

[00:06:51]>> So, he's not the creator of the human cellular anatomy.

[00:06:57]I mean when God originally created Adam and Eve, those things weren't in the body. But once sin entered the word world through human nature, through the serpent, through the devil himself, all these things came about. And God warned us. God warned us in the beginning that disobedience will lead to that. Think about your mom and your dad.

[00:07:14]>> You know what I mean? If you don't follow the good things that they teach you, now mind you, people have abusive parents, but there are good teachings that a mother and a father teaches you.

[00:07:21]That's how you have to treat God. God warns you if you disobey in these types of ways, these things will happen. Then people go ahead and do it. And then, oh, why is all this bad stuff happening?

[00:07:30]Because of disobedience. In Romans 5:19, it says, "By one man's disobedience, we were all made sinful, but then by one man's obedience, which is Jesus Christ, we were all made righteous."

[00:07:41]>> Again, yeah, a little problem. Uh, it just says explicitly multiple times that God is indeed the creator of all things.

[00:07:47]You know, it says in Colossians, >> my parents, my parents are good.

[00:07:50]>> Sorry, I was just replying to a comment I saw. Oh, okay. Well, um, sure. Uh, in Colossians 1:16, it says, "For in him all things in heaven and earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers. All things have been created through him and for him." In Revelation 4:11, it says, "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created." So, it just says over and over and over. John 1:3, "All things were made through him." Like come on. It says explicitly over and over and over again that God is the creator of all things.

[00:08:26]But is this is human cellular sorry is the is the gene that causes lean syndrome is that a thing >> product is a product of sin.

[00:08:37]>> But is that a thing?

[00:08:39]>> No sin is not a thing.

[00:08:40]>> You don't think that the gene that causes leash nan syndrome exists?

[00:08:44]>> Well yes sin created things.

[00:08:45]>> Does it exist?

[00:08:46]>> But God didn't create the things that sin brought about. Does it exist?

[00:08:51]>> Yeah, of course. Everything exists.

[00:08:53]>> Sure. So then that is a thing, right?

[00:08:55]When it says the creator of all things, that's going to include that. I'm sorry that it doesn't say what you wanted to say, but it does say that God's the creator of all things. So you're on the hook for explaining this one.

[00:09:06]>> I mean, well, when he says things, it's not it's not describing exactly every single thing he created because sin also created things. If you look into the word, sin brought about stuff as well, but God didn't create sin.

[00:09:19]>> Yeah. So, I'll read this verse again to you because I think it's quite indicative. For in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible. Those are exhaustive categories. Come on.

[00:09:31]>> Well, yeah. If you look at just that verse, obviously you can you can twist it and say that every single thing that's bad and good was created by God.

[00:09:38]Yeah. But just look more into the word.

[00:09:40]You'll find more things. Obviously, I'm not going to pull up a random Bible verse that will kind of go against that right now, but there's so much evidence in the Bible that all of these things that are bad, considered horrible, that we look at like, God, why do you create these things didn't inherently come from his design, >> then that's a contradiction. any place.

[00:10:00]Even if you have like a verse that says God didn't create this, then that's just a direct contradiction with the three verses that I cited you that say explicitly in no uncertain terms that God is the creator of all things. If if you're saying God is the creator of all things, but also there are some things that God didn't create, that's just a contradiction.

[00:10:18]>> Okay? So, let's say if God tells you, hey, I give you a good thing and a bad thing. I I tell you to choose the good thing and and it'll be good. Would you just choose good?

[00:10:27]>> Well, if God exists, then I would choose the good thing. If God was like, "This is the good thing. Go choose the good thing." Whoa. This is a total pivot, by the way. Wait, this is a total pivot.

[00:10:35]Let's just get clear. So, do you have I I guess like what's your response to the argument that it's it would be a contradiction?

[00:10:43]>> Okay, look, God created everything and it and honestly, we failed.

[00:10:48]>> Okay, >> we failed and which led to all of this extra stuff. But >> did he create the extra stuff?

[00:10:53]>> The Bible that said God created disease.

[00:10:55]>> Wait, did he create the extra stuff too?

[00:10:56]>> Yes. But all things good.

[00:10:59]>> Oh, it doesn't say that though. It just says all things.

[00:11:02]>> I think there's a verse that says he created all things good.

[00:11:04]>> Yeah, let's see that. I mean, what I would infer from that to be clear is just that all things in the world are good is what the Bible is saying because it says over and over and over again that God is the creator of all things.

[00:11:17]So, if he created if everything that God creates is good and God's the creator of all things, then it would just seem to follow that all things are good. But sure, if you're off the app, I can't hear you. got to come back on the app when you're ready.

[00:11:30]>> Well, you you I'm going to be honest with you, bro. You got a very very valid argument there. And you know, it it'll drive a Christian insane with the way you act stuff. So, I can't let it do that to me. [snorts] I just know that there's so much evil in this world. We have no way to escape it. But there is a way we can. Spiritually, we can. And if you don't want to believe in that, I really respect you for that. I really do. And I find it amazing how you can be >> I just want to know what >> No. Yes. I I look I I I I I'm not going to say I agree with it because obviously there's going to be opposition on here, but [snorts] I'm saying that Bible verse can justify why you have that reasoning of God that it completely justifies it.

[00:12:09]I get it. But personally, if you if you actually are hungry and thirsty for the Holy Spirit to come and reveal things to you because we have so many questions, it will. But it's a choice. That's the beauty in choosing, bro. So, let me read Deuteronomy 31:19 real quick because I've been wanting to read this all life and death.

[00:12:30]>> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. I'm so sorry. Before you read it, I'll let you read it if it's relevant. But before you read it, is this trying to like Is this evidence in favor of God's existence?

[00:12:40]>> I don't I don't want you to preach at me. I want you to give evidence.

[00:12:43]>> Listen, there were people in the Bible that the only evidence they had of God existence were testimonies. I'm I'm disheartened by the fact that you're not saying that it's evidence.

[00:12:54]>> Say that again.

[00:12:55]>> I'm like pessimistic about what you're about to read based on the fact that you won't even say that it's evidence.

[00:13:01]>> Well, do I mean I'm just Let me read it.

[00:13:05]>> Is it evidence?

[00:13:07]>> Yeah, I think it's evidence.

[00:13:09]>> Okay, go for it.

[00:13:11]>> I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore, choose life that both you and your descendants may live.

[00:13:21]>> Well, that that verse itself sounds like God said that he set like curses before you. So, it sounds like God does create evil.

[00:13:27]>> Yeah. God warned us if he disobey if we disobey there will be curses against us.

[00:13:31]>> Okay. That that kind of seems to prove my point >> because when he created the first humans in the earth, there Satan was already trying to plot against them.

[00:13:38]>> Mhm.

[00:13:38]>> He was already plotting on how to destroy the world. So, God is like, I'm warning you, if you do, if you go this route, this will happen. And that goes for every single person whether not nowadays for in history everybody had the right to choose good and evil. Some people stick with evil because it seems kind of easier.

[00:13:54]>> Do you think that that's where cancer came from?

[00:13:57]>> From what?

[00:13:58]>> Like the fall of man. Do you think that that's where cancer came from?

[00:14:02]>> I would like to believe so. Yes. I believe these things.

[00:14:05]>> Maybe you could help me make sense of something. So we have this dinosaur bone that is cancer. It's like a cousin of triceratops. It is bone cancer. It's a bone tumor. You know, maybe maybe it was something that they were consuming. You know, maybe it was the sin. Uh perhaps it was something in the food. But, you know, regardless, we have >> I'm not laughing at you.

[00:14:22]>> That's okay. You could be laughing at it. It's you know, it's funny. It's meant to be a joke. But, um yeah, I mean, we have this we have this bone with cancer. If cancer comes from humans, then how could we possibly explain the fact that dinosaurs had cancer?

[00:14:36]>> I think any living organism can have some type of cancer for sure. I just think humans brought it into existence because we have brains to actually call it what it is.

[00:14:45]>> Oh, wait. You're just saying like humans categorized it.

[00:14:49]>> Humans can speak and say, "Hey, this is cancer."

[00:14:51]>> I agree with that.

[00:14:52]>> Cancer has existed in other organisms before actual intelligence and research and science and all.

[00:14:58]>> Why would God create it like that?

[00:15:02]>> It's like it's like painful for all these animals, right? You know, when your dog gets cancer, that sucks. That's horrible.

[00:15:09]Why would God give all these animals cancer?

[00:15:14]>> He didn't give them cancer.

[00:15:16]>> Didn't he make the world with the ability for them to get cancer?

[00:15:20]>> Yeah. He made the world and he was like, "Hey, if you disobey, this is all going to happen."

[00:15:24]>> But they had cancer before that.

[00:15:25]>> Didn't exist in the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve sinned.

[00:15:28]>> Oh, wait.

[00:15:29]>> So once they disobeyed in God's face, all of these things came about.

[00:15:33]>> Which do you think?

[00:15:34]>> I mean, I like to think, bro, I like to think that God does not play around.

[00:15:36]Like he is a serious god. He's very loving, but he's also very serious and he's also very like true with what he says.

[00:15:43]>> Okay. Which do you think came first, humans or dinosaurs?

[00:15:48]>> Humans.

[00:15:50]>> Oh, I have I have bad news for you. We have like tons of evidence that dinosaurs predate humans by like millions of years.

[00:15:56]>> Okay. So, if you believe in that evidence, why don't you believe that that there's evidence of God being real?

[00:16:01]You've never seen that evidence. You've just read it. Wait, to be clear, I actually do think that there are some things that are evidence for God being real. Like, I think sophisticated versions of the fine-tuning argument probably do provide some level of evidence for God being real. I just think they get massively outweighed by the good arguments for atheism, like things like the problem of evil. Um, so I I think that there is things that I would qualify as evidence for God. Do you think that there's any evidence for atheism?

[00:16:26]>> Uh, yeah. Like what?

[00:16:28]>> Yeah, I think there's a lot of evidence for atheism. It's the the the free will to choose to believe in that.

[00:16:33]>> But like what evidence would you think is good evidence >> for atheism?

[00:16:38]>> I mean I mean I've never been an atheist. I mean I've just I don't really understand how y'all think about stuff.

[00:16:45]But >> okay, >> like the research that you do into science, science is very very good for atheism. uh just biology in general, philosophy, that is all very good things to learn in order to prove atheism may be real in your standards or whatever.

[00:17:02]>> Okay. Sure.

[00:17:03]>> Well, I mean, I think we have like good reason to think that science is pretty reliable and science seems to indicate that dinosaurs existed like millions of years before humans.

[00:17:11]>> Very reliable, but I think people worship science more than they actually believe in God. You know, I think people put their faith into science as a god itself. Oh, I don't think that's true because science deals with evidence. So, so faith as as a thing. Um, faith is like a belief in the absence of evidence. Science deals strictly with evidence. I don't think that there's any faith in science.

[00:17:33]>> People have faith in science. They they they swear by that's the only reason why everything exists is only science.

[00:17:41]>> Well, that doesn't even make sense.

[00:17:42]>> I consider that to be faith. Like there was there's nothing that can shake you out of the belief that science is the reason for everything. That's faith. I guess I don't even think that what you just said is like I don't know like I can't even make sense of that. Science is like a like a methodology for arriving at knowledge.

[00:17:57]>> Science isn't like some sort of thing that causes things. It's literally just how like a like a tool for us to make sense of the natural world. So I'm not sure who thinks that science like caused everything that I I suspect that this is like a straw man.

[00:18:14]Hey man, I'm going to let you have your thing, but honestly, all I can say is that, oh man, Chad is about to roast me for this. As a drug addict for all my life, trying to stop on my own, the only thing that brought me out of that was calling on Jesus' name in the name of the in the power of the Holy Spirit.

[00:18:30]That was the only thing I was changed in one night. That's all I could say. And that's going to be my argument. Jesus can set anybody free if you really go and pray. if you really believe like that like because you're very smart and I have no other way of really defending my point other than my testimony because there were people in the Bible that only had their testimony. They were dumb as a brick. You know what I'm saying? So it's like when you say I just realized, bro, when you say the name of Jesus to people, they freak out. But you mentioned Buddha, they're like, "Oh yeah, Buddha's cool. Krishna. Oh yeah, Krishna's cool." Why is Jesus so hated?

[00:19:05]>> Why is he so hated? because that people did for him in the Bible. Just the name itself, why does it bring so much nail themselves to the cross?

[00:19:16]>> You know what I'm saying?

[00:19:17]>> No.

[00:19:18]>> Why do people in Hollywood do that? Why do artists like the baby and Oliver Tree, rest in peace? Uh uh uh what was another one? Tupac, why do they nail themselves to the cross and mock Jesus?

[00:19:27]Why not mock Buddha? Why not mock?

[00:19:29]>> Did Oliver Tree nail himself to a cross?

[00:19:32]>> Yeah, look in the the music video. um um hurt at the end. He was nailed to the scooter as if it was a cross with nails in his hand. It was like a big scooter and he was acting like as if he was on a cross.

[00:19:43]>> I see.

[00:19:44]>> Like it was a crucifixion. It's It doesn't have to be a cross, but it's a >> Don't you guys literally Wait, sorry.

[00:19:47]Don't you guys like literally wear like a cross around like all the time constantly?

[00:19:52]>> So, personally, wearing a cross, if you're not a true Christian and you wear a cross, that's kind of like blasphemous in a way because the cross itself is a way of killing in general. It's not before Jesus died on it. It was just something that they used to kill people.

[00:20:06]But the reason people wear it is to remember Jesus himself. It's like wearing a cross isn't going to like be like I you know I rebuke you and and you put it on someone's forehead and cast out a demon. No. Like all that Catholic stuff is kind of crazy. Like Jesus on the cross himself as a white man with crowns on his head. That's a form of idolatry >> because you can't you know what I mean?

[00:20:23]It's a little bit different. But when a true relationship with Jesus is is above that. It's very spiritual. is very spiritual because I I've I've came across sorry before before we move past this point.

[00:20:35]Uh I think that there's like probably like a reasonable explanation for um I don't know like people who would use like cross-based imagery which is that it has like cultural significance.

[00:20:43]There's like a specific message and story that's associated with it. You know for example like you can um you can be invoking like various pieces of mythology. You know, you can invoke like King Midas from the story of like the Midas touch without actually believing that it was like a real story.

[00:21:00]>> Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Yeah, you know, people have that. You can you can believe that 100%.

[00:21:07]>> Oh, also they all live in like a Christian country. So, let's say that they are mocking. I mean, you know, the reason why they're doing this instead of mocking one of the other religions is because they're here or this is like the most prominent religion.

[00:21:18]>> Also, like the mass murdering of Christians, which is not being talked about on the news right now. They're killing mill like hundreds and thousands of Nigerians in Nigerian Christians right now.

[00:21:28]>> Yeah, that's too Yeah, of course you shouldn't do that.

[00:21:32]But why?

[00:21:34]>> That's something that brought me closer to the Lord Jesus. Bro, >> wait. You know, they're doing this in like a lot of places, right? like they're they're murdering like lots of people of lots of different religions in like lots of places, you know? There are places where like Muslims are getting murdered, places where like Buddhists are getting murdered. What was um what was the I mean there's like all that tension between um like Hindus and Muslims around like like Pakistan or in India for example like people will go and kill each other on on that basis.

[00:22:09]I mean, yeah, that's kind of radical, too. You know, in a way, I think all killing of anything spiritual they think is spiritual is very radical in itself.

[00:22:16]>> Yeah. I don't think that you should be killing people for the religions.

[00:22:19]>> Yeah. I mean, I guess the only argument I have is that it's real to me. You know, I can't really tell you that you can that you have to believe, >> but you can actually try.

[00:22:29]>> That's what I'm saying. Like, you can actually try. Like, have you ever have you ever like been hurt in like a church setting or by a Christian? like what led you that that didn't really because sometimes I talk to people >> not until I started debating but no >> okay >> no I just became convinced that the belief was false like somebody presented me like a what I took at the time to be a logical argument against the belief I don't think it still works but at the time I thought it was compelling and then I I decid I changed my mind on it you know um you you said something interesting with your story that the reason why you believe is because this was like this was like the only way that you were able to overcome come addiction, which I think is great. I think it's awesome to overcome your addiction. Um, you know, when I was a kid learning how to ride the bike, the training wheels were the only thing that could stop me from falling over on the bike. Um, but then eventually I gained my balance on the bike and it was time to take the training wheels off.

[00:23:24]>> Yeah. So, do you think riding a bike with training wheels and without training wheels is the same as quitting drugs? So the the analogy that I'm trying to draw here is that I think that religion can stabilize your life if your life is in shambles. Um but I think after your life is stabilized.

[00:23:39]>> It's not religion. It's just the name of Jesus.

[00:23:42]>> Wait, sorry. Did you try the other religions?

[00:23:44]>> Um I looked into them but nothing really kind of fulfilled me more than like the name of Jesus and actually calling out to you.

[00:23:52]>> Which religions did you like?

[00:23:54]>> Huh?

[00:23:54]>> Which religions did you look into?

[00:23:57]>> Uh I studied a little bit. I didn't I don't really remember anything I studied from it. I just kind of looked into like the the Book of Mormon is kind of like similar to Christianity because they do believe in Jesus, but it's like weird rules. Um just like Muslim, my friend tried to get me to be Muslim one time and you know it it's just >> I don't know man.

[00:24:16]>> I think all of these there are stories in all these religions in my mind was Jesus. Like something just kept coming to me about Jesus and God and Jesus and God like and I didn't even try to open myself up to these I was forced in the church. I had to get baptized at a young age. I didn't. So, I left because I had this this like, you know, why do I have to believe in this?

[00:24:35]Why is this being forced in my life? But then one day, I was just so tired of certain things. And by I tried to give up on my own. I so many times I tried to be like, you know, I'm done with this today. I'm quitting. I'm not going to do this. And then it will come back and hit me harder or and then one day, literally in one night, I don't know how to explain this. I was like, "Jesus, if you are real and you are the God that you say that you are, come and change my life right now and reveal to me what I need to change." And it's like people call me delusional now. I've lost a lot of friends because of this. And I'm not even trying to like I wasn't even trying to force them. I'm like, "Hey man, I gave my life to Jesus. Boom. Not my friend no more." And in the Bible it says people will hate you for my name's sake. So it's like when all these things come to come h like happen, you know what I mean? You never read that Bible verse that that people will hate you for?

[00:25:20]>> I have I have no clue. Like I hear the reverse quite a bit where Christians lash out at like atheists. Um I will never lash out >> or like Well, yeah. Right. Like I don't I don't know. If if somebody stops being friends with you because you're a Christian, then that person's like weird. Um also that's just like statistically unlikely, right? Like there are just way more Christians than there are atheists.

[00:25:43]>> This person would have to be friends with nobody.

[00:25:45]>> Me a lot, bro. The name of Jesus. People would try to come to me and I would get so mad, bro. I would get so mad. I'm like, "Why are you telling me about that dude? like he's just some guy, he's just some dude or he's just like some religion and something. But like when I actually just tried and I was like, you know what, let me see since everybody's talking about it, since I see people be saved and changed overnight and and bro, like it happened and I just don't know.

[00:26:06]Like I can't just tell you like, hey, that you got to do it, bro. You got to do it. This is the only way, you know, I can just tell you that this is what happened to me. And it's it's the best decision I ever made. Regardless of how much money I've been making recently, regardless of sicknesses around the world, regardless of things, like everything happens for a reason. And I think God allows things to happen in this world so [clears throat] that we can choose good in the end. You know what I mean? Like >> the reason why that's uncompelling to me is because I don't have some catastrophic problem that I need God to fix for me. Um I there's nothing for me to call out to God.

[00:26:40]>> You needed him to fix or you wanted him to fix >> that I want him to fix. Like I don't need or even like need him to fix. Like I didn't have any sort of problem like this that I would need to call or want to call out to God. Yeah. I've like prayed before and nothing happened.

[00:26:53]>> You prayed before but haven't prayed continuously.

[00:26:56]>> Pray I'm sorry. How how long am I expected to pray for? How how many times did you do the Muslim prayer?

[00:27:02]>> Never.

[00:27:02]>> Yeah. Not a single one. How many times did you do like a like a Buddhist meditation or like a Hindu prayer?

[00:27:08]>> Uh never. Yeah. Exactly. People do it though and it's they just go right back to drinking and smoking. So I don't know how to explain that.

[00:27:15]>> Same is true of a lot of Christians by the way. But yeah.

[00:27:18]>> Yeah, it's true. It is true with a lot of Christians too. But it's like you know a lot of religions Christianity religions leave out the Holy Spirit. And this is something that I was always realizing. They only just talk about God. They don't mention Jesus. They don't mention the Holy Spirit. But when you bring those other two names into the picture, it changes because it's like God is all three, right? You heard about the trinity. The Bible doesn't mention the name of the trinity, but God is all three in one.

[00:27:43]>> I I have questions about the trinity actually.

[00:27:45]>> I I actually don't know how to make sense of this at all.

[00:27:48]>> So >> yeah, >> think about it like this. So the way that we determine like the number of things we can count like the the number of the number of things that share an essence. So okay, this has like the essential features of a pen. So that's one pen. This one also has the essential features of a pen. Two pens. This also has the essential features of a pen.

[00:28:07]Three pens. We have three pens because we have three objects. These objects all have the essential features of a pen.

[00:28:13]Three pens. So we have the father who has the essential features of God. The the Holy Spirit who has the essential features of God. Um and and then we have the son who has the essential features of God. It just seems like that would be three gods.

[00:28:29]>> No. Well, think about it. You're a son, you're you're a brother, and you could be a father, but you're all in one person.

[00:28:34]>> Okay. So, you're a son. you. Oh, wait.

[00:28:36]So then the father is the son.

[00:28:38]>> Yes, I believe that the father is the son and the holy spirit.

[00:28:42]>> Because look, in order, look, if you want to think of it this way, in order for God to relate to humanity and actually show himself, he had to come in human form and that was Jesus.

[00:28:53]>> Okay. Um, unfortunately, you just projected the trinity actually.

[00:28:59]>> How was playing?

[00:29:00]>> So, the trinity the trinity holds that it's three persons, one god. But you're saying that it's all all the >> We can be three persons in one.

[00:29:10]>> Just the same person. So it's it's not person. I'm a brother to someone. I'm a friend to someone. I'm a son to someone.

[00:29:18]I can be a father to someone.

[00:29:20]>> Do you think um we can be four persons in one person?

[00:29:23]>> Do you think Clark Kent and Superman are two persons or one person?

[00:29:28]>> That's just identity.

[00:29:30]>> Yeah.

[00:29:31]It's like pretty clearly like one person.

[00:29:33]>> Well, yeah. Clark Kent technically.

[00:29:34]Yeah. To other people, he's one person and then to someone else.

[00:29:37]>> Yeah.

[00:29:38]>> He's another person because of identity.

[00:29:39]But that's just like >> so be one person.

[00:29:45]>> Like the father, the son, and the holy spirit under this criteria would just be one person.

[00:29:50]>> Be one being. Yeah.

[00:29:52]>> One person. Like these aren't like the father isn't like a different person.

[00:29:55]>> God isn't a person. Like the Jesus, his form of Jesus was a person. Yes. But Jesus is still God.

[00:30:01]>> Okay. His is a Wait, are you are you saying it's like a mode of God?

[00:30:08]>> A what God? A motive?

[00:30:09]>> Like a mode of God? Like God exists in like different modes?

[00:30:14]>> Well, if in the Bible he said he made man in his own image, he can come down as a man and show himself.

[00:30:20]>> Okay, sure. Then this sounds like a heresy. So here's um the heresies in question is called like modalism, which states that you're saying that it's like three different modes of God. Um, like for example, if you were to say like, well, we have this puddle and this puddle can freeze, but it's still the same puddle or it can like thaw out, still the same puddle. We could evaporate it, you know, still the same puddle. Um, that's that's called modalism. It's a heresy. That's the problem with the trinity is that there are there are like a handful of ways that to me I would be able to make sense of it and they're all heresy. Like for example, I could understand if what's being said is that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are parts of God, but not the entirety of him. But that's partialism. Like I it's just a mess.

[00:31:02]>> Well, don't you think parts make up an entirety?

[00:31:05]>> Parts do make up an entirety.

[00:31:08]>> So, I mean, then then that's what it is.

[00:31:10]>> You don't want to say it makes you think of it like that >> because then I It's You just commit yourself to heresy.

[00:31:18]>> I mean, I get what you're saying. I get I get what you're saying, man. you have a you have really good points.

[00:31:24]>> But I just, you know, I like to think of it as that like God is the one being that has always been there and he has a power and he has a form that we can relate to and they're all one thing. You know, if that makes any sense because God can't God himself had to become human and people I heard I saw somebody say so did Jesus pray to himself. Jesus had the characteristics like every single one of us. So maybe Jesus in his human form didn't know he was God, but when God sent him down, he is God because he lived a perfect life.

[00:31:58]He died and rose three days later.

[00:32:00]>> Yeah. Like catastrophic issue there. I I'm glad that you brought this up, too, because this is like in addition to the Trinity not making sense. I think like the hypothatic union, the fact that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human. I think that the hypothatic union is like complete gibberish. Like I actually I think that this one's like maybe even more cooked. Um, you know, God's all knowing.

[00:32:20]>> That's Yeah. Yeah. God's all knowing.

[00:32:23]Jesus is 100% God. So, Jesus is all knowing. Humans are not all knowing.

[00:32:27]Jesus is 100% human. So, Jesus is not all knowing. So, >> it is very confusing. It's both all knowing and not all knowing. It's just a direct contradiction.

[00:32:37]>> It is. But, and it is very confusing, right?

[00:32:41]>> I think it's like an impossibility probably. It's I think it's worse than confusing. It's like strictly false.

[00:32:49]cuz the I feel like the spiritual aspect of things our human minds can't comprehend. You know what I mean? So like yeah like you know Jesus to people is just fiction is like oh he was just a man this and that. But like like I said like opening up to it and actually feeling a change and actually feeling his presence like that overrules all the intelligence that someone may think they have.

[00:33:13]>> You know what I mean? and all the research because it's beyond our human comprehension. It is. It really is like God himself, if God really is the God he say he is, which I truly believe and he did create everything and he started and he was always there, always has been. Like we're here, right? And we have the choice to choose like, hey, he's not real. I'm going to do all this research and I'm going to make sure that I can prove that he's not real. I'm going to make sure that every Christian that I talk to, you know, like disprove like he finds I find ways to disprove it so they can believe me. You know, we we can do that. You know what I mean? And it's just like if God really did exist, really does exist.

[00:33:54]Like we will never know that unless we ask him ourselves. Like I don't know where I was really going with.

[00:33:59]>> Yeah. I mean I prayed but then nothing happened. So I don't know. Like I've done the things that you've said that I should do to find God and I just don't find God. which leaves leads us I'm so glad uh you keep on saying like new things which leads us to like more problems with the religion this leads to the problem of >> divine problems with religion there's a lot of problems because humans created religion God didn't create religion like there are so many contradictions in every religion like bro you look at Christianity you got Baptist you got 7th day Adventist you got Pentecostal bro it's confusing but when you dumb it down to just Jesus himself that's when everything starts to make sense >> you know what I mean but and it's and it's personal relationship. Like I can't I can't come out here and teach you what I feel.

[00:34:41]>> Can I have a relationship with someone if I don't know that they exist?

[00:34:47]>> You can um That's a good question. You can have a rel You can't have a relationship with someone if you choose to believe that they don't exist.

[00:34:54]>> Well, wait, but let's say I I'm just not sure whether or not a being exists. Can I have a relationship with them? Like, can I have a friend if I don't know that that friend exists? Or like a girlfriend if I don't know that that girlfriend exists?

[00:35:06]If you don't know they exist and you have problems with it, obviously no you can't have a relationship with him.

[00:35:10]>> Yeah. Exactly right. So I don't know that God exists so I can't have a relationship with him. If what God wants is a relationship with me, he needs to make his existence known and then from there I can decide myself whether or not I want the relationship with him. But I can't have a relationship with a being if I don't know that they exist.

[00:35:28]>> You can allow it. You can allow him to reveal yourself to you. God is not just going to come and swoop you off your feet. Why wouldn't he make himself known?

[00:35:37]>> How am I supposed to call out to the being that I don't know exists?

[00:35:41]>> Well, if you don't know exist, you can choose to believe. You can choose to believe. Like, if there's not a fly on the wall and you don't see a fly on the wall and be like, "Hey, I choose to believe that there's a fly right there and it never shows up." Like, you have the right to believe that. You can do that with God.

[00:35:53]>> But why wouldn't God give me sufficient evidence?

[00:35:56]>> You believe in oxygen. You believe in space, but you've only seen it in textbooks.

[00:36:00]>> You've only read about it.

[00:36:01]>> The reason why I don't believe in God isn't because I don't see him. Yeah. If every time you breathe, you believe you're taking in oxygen.

[00:36:07]>> Yep. I can like literally feel it.

[00:36:09]>> I can't feel God the same way. You treat God the same way, though, bro.

[00:36:12]>> I can't feel God. I can feel the oxygen.

[00:36:15]You know, I could buy a telescope and look into outer space.

[00:36:19]>> I see all these objects in space like the stars.

[00:36:23]>> We can we our human nature can shut ourselves off from God.

[00:36:28]>> We have the ability to do that. But it's all about dying to yourself. It's all about denying what you think and allowing God to be like, "Hey, take over." But some people are so much like I'm not saying you, but there's a lot of people that are filled with like a lot of pride and be like, "I got this. I know what I'm doing."

[00:36:42]>> That certainly is your presupposition.

[00:36:44]>> Huh?

[00:36:45]>> That certainly is your presupposition. I don't think that accurately maps the experience, though.

[00:36:52]>> I mean, >> you're you're basically saying that I'm like choosing to not believe in God. I have no evidence for this thing. Like how how can God reasonably expect me to believe in him if I don't have any evidence for his existence?

[00:37:03]>> Well, I have like barely any good evidence for his existence.

[00:37:07]>> When somebody was like, "What is this stuff we're breathing? How can I study this stuff and figure it out?"

[00:37:12]Obviously, oxygen, you know, they found ways to just pull it out of thin air and study it and know what it is. Right. And but they went through lengths to try and figure out what this stuff is that we're breathing in that keeps us alive.

[00:37:25]>> Yeah. But we know that we're study. They didn't just stop at one one study, right? They kept going and going and going until they be like, "Hey, this is oxygen. These are the components that it's made of." Boom, boom, boom. If they stop, if they just went, "What is this stuff?" and then just kind of stopped right there and never kept going, they would have never found out what oxygen is. It's the same thing with God. If you pray one time, >> you're literally not giving Wait, sorry.

[00:37:47]I'm so sorry. Can you give the example of how I have like a feeling of God? Cuz I have a feeling of breathing. I know that oxygen or that there's like something that I'm breathing in because I know that I breathe. I can feel me breathing. I don't have anything like that for God.

[00:38:00]>> God is like questioning the stuff around you.

[00:38:03]>> I Okay, that's nonsense. That sounds like a gibberish statement saying God is just when you question the things around you. Like I don't even know what that means.

[00:38:11]>> Well, kind of like just having evidence of things that humans can't create. Like where did this stuff come from? You know what I mean? Arguments for that of science. And I've heard you talk before about all that. But it's like people who didn't have science back then, right?

[00:38:25]>> You know what I mean?

[00:38:26]>> Yeah.

[00:38:27]>> It's like they would have they would be like where did all this come from? So they would go to a higher power like who created all this? How do we create this this tree? How do we make a seed that grows this plant from the ground? You know what I mean?

[00:38:38]>> They were pretty famously like wrong about most of their beliefs by the way.

[00:38:42]>> Who is who is >> like a lot of the ancient peoples pre-science like a lot of their beliefs were just not even in the same ballpark.

[00:38:50]So the thing with science, like science updates itself over time, right? It it casts out bad science in favor of good science, but there's a a remaining like underlying structure that connects specific phenomena together um that stays intact over the various transitions.

[00:39:08]So it just seems like the ancient peoples who did mythology and tried to explain things with mythology were wrong and very wrong. And they were so wrong in fact that we don't even take anything that they believed in to have any sort of significance anymore at all in any way, shape or form. Whereas like science for example is something that disproves itself but then it shares an underlying structure with like previous science.

[00:39:36]>> Okay. [snorts] So do you think like let's say if the world goes another thousand years from today, do you think that everything that we figured out they would be saying the same thing about us? I think it's going to share the same underlying structure.

[00:39:48]>> Okay. Okay.

[00:39:48]>> That the broad connections between the phenomena are going to remain the same, but that like the specific like >> I don't know like the specific details that fill out the structure are going to be different.

[00:40:03]>> Okay.

[00:40:04]Okay. I just think, you know, like people have a lot of questions and we're trying to figure something out. Like I feel like you're on these lives to try and actually prove that God is real.

[00:40:15]>> Oh, I I think that that's unwise.

[00:40:18]>> You're searching for something, but maybe you're not. But personally, I feel like there is something tugging at you to be on this live every day. Obviously, maybe you make money from this and you, you know, this is something that you do, you know, with your with your life, which I really respect. But the fact that you have this interest to know what Christians think and how they can defend their point and how they can prove that God is real, you're looking for something.

[00:40:46]>> Um, yeah. I mean, you know, I'm interested in like the philosophy of it, but do you have anything else?

[00:40:52]Otherwise, I might move on to the next one.

[00:40:53]>> No, I mean, just I I I will never stop believing in Jesus because of my personal experience. It's all spiritual and that's really the best thing I can give you, man.

[00:41:02]>> Okay?

[00:41:02]>> You know.

[00:41:02]>> Hey, thanks so much for coming on up here.