Verhoeven’s subversion of fascist aesthetics remains a masterclass in satire that James and Maso dissect with effortless, insightful humor. It is a sharp look at how a misunderstood blockbuster became a definitive critique of the military-industrial complex.
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Deep Dive
Starship Troopers! - Caravan of GarbageAdded:
Welcome back everybody to another episode of Caravan of Garbage where we're talking about classic '90s sci-fi.
>> I love classic '90s sci-fi.
>> Does it get more classic '90s sci-fi?
>> No.
>> Do you don't think there's a better movie from sci-fi in the '90s?
>> Oh, is The Matrix better than this, Mason?
>> YES, IT IS.
>> WOW. OKAY. I didn't know we were going there. Feel free to click off, everybody.
>> Click right off. See if I care. Do it.
>> It's a very good movie. Starship Troopers 1997. Absolutely.
>> Please leave a like.
>> You've had your fill of and now it's time for I'm just making eyes at you from across the room cuz that's what this movie is.
>> Golden people making eyes.
>> A lot of this movie, you know, in retrospect, it's all very CW drama from this era. It's just the oldest teenagers you've ever seen just making eyes at each other. It's like Dawson's Creek if there's an episode where Joey, you know, trips and accidentally shoots Pacy in the head with a highowered rifle, which maybe happened. I don't know.
>> Potentially. Well, most of this cast is from 90210.
>> Hell yeah.
>> And it's intentionally that way because I don't know if you've picked up on this, and we might cover it in this video. You could watch this as a straightup fun action movie. It works on that level like Robocop, Paul Vhov, also.
>> That's what I chose to do. But also, you could watch it on a second level if you I don't know if you pick up on any of the symbolism or anything that's happening at any point.
>> A second level.
>> Yeah. Two thinkings at once.
>> It's like playing Mario, original Mario, and then Mario the Lost Levels. Mario.
>> No, it isn't.
>> It's just like that.
>> It's absolutely not like that. James, you know, I'll go with you on a stupid metaphor for idiots by idiots. But you've gone too far. One subversive >> Mario the lost levels is >> it does because the first mushroom that comes out you're like oh lovely I'm Mario and I love a mushroom. Guess what?
It's a poisoned mushroom.
>> That's not a subversion. That's a perversion is what that is.
>> You're a perversion.
>> Yeah.
>> Did you know though?
>> Yes.
>> Speaking of Japanese things. Oh yes.
>> This is actually the second adaptation of Starship Troopers. There was a 1988 six-part anime.
>> Was there Did they do the robot suits?
>> They did the robot suits. Yes, I believe so.
>> Right. Because this is based on the Robert Heinland novel, Starship Troopers. And in that novel, everybody's in like a mech suit, and they've got like nuclear missiles and stuff. Jumps.
>> Mario again. The Mario Brothers movie.
Subversive.
>> This is a subversion.
>> That's what I'm realizing right now. And I'm telling you, >> subversion.
>> Thank you.
>> Well, Edward Nemire, who wrote this >> and Robocop, >> and he directed the third one. We'll talk about it a little bit. He originally was working on a script called Bug Hunt at Outpost 9.
>> No, he wasn't.
>> No, he really was. And then someone probably pointed out that, hey, isn't this just Starship Troopers? And they went, oh yeah, we'll just option that novel.
>> This sounds like they did everything in reverse. This guy wrote a Starship Trooper script and then something something legal something and he went, "No, it didn't. It's called Bug Hunt on Outpost 9."
>> I mean, Aliens is Starship Troopers, you know, in a way. So maybe he was just doing an aliens because also if you've read the book and I have read some of it in the lead there are scenes taken straight out of it like the school at the start and other bits and pieces but it's very different like the aliens they're more humanoid and they can use technology and have ships and that whereas this it's just like horrible spiders and brains and awful stuff and >> a lot of vomiting of various gases and fluids.
>> Exactly.
>> Onto other creatures.
>> Yeah, that's right. But just what a fun and silly captivating action movie set in the year 2197. Also ridiculous looking movie. The fact that it looks the way it does and a lot of it is just in broad daylight. Yeah, >> it's exceptional. The '90s model work is amazing. Apparently, it was 14 months of building models in total, you know, ships and giant asteroids and whatever and tearing them apart and all of that.
And the bugs look outstanding. Shiny and gooey and snappy.
>> Bug design, especially like the base bug. Yeah, >> perfection.
>> But also like the flaming snot bug and the flying bug. They were right also.
>> Yeah. So, Phil Tippet worked on this. He also did the stop motion input dinosaur movement from Jurassic Park and that was brought over here. So, there are stop motion elements to the bugs. And I think also that's why they look so good because yeah, they they're not quite always photorealistic, but the movement >> and the weight.
>> Yeah. the wait and when you get hit with bullets and you see like bits like fly off them and they like go down on >> that was not that I was not fully convinced BY BUT I THINK >> OKAY WHOA WHOA WHOA SORRY EVERYBODY FEEL FREE TO CLICK off if you haven't already >> that's right click right off see if I even care but I think when they're bearing down on a trooper and you know everything about them is sharp and pointed and heavy you really get the sense that you know one strike from them will just tear someone to pieces and it does and it will exactly >> and it continues to do so >> so this had a largely negative rea reaction when it came out and it bombed and we'll talk about how much specifically, but I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that people went, "Oh, this is beautiful space teenagers who aren't really teenagers."
>> Teenagers.
>> Yeah. And I think it makes people go, "Well, this is stupid. This is filled."
>> It is stupid. And it's filled with stupid actors from stupid TV shows. They look stupid with their stupid golden tans.
>> Casper Vanian, Denise Richards, uh, who else we got there?
>> Michael.
A beautiful teenager.
>> That's right. A not yet fully formed Neil Patrick Harris. His head hasn't settled in yet.
>> What's going on there?
>> He's too young.
>> Jake Buucy.
>> Dina Meyer. Pre Birds of Prey, I think.
>> Oh my god. Birds of Prey, the TV show, but not the movie.
>> That's right. Patrick Mold and RP.
>> Yeah. Really good in this.
>> Mhm. Is he supposed to be a teenager?
>> I think he's maybe slightly older.
>> Okay. All right.
>> But not by much if he is.
>> Good smile though. Liked it.
>> Oh yeah. So, the reason it was cast this way is because Paul Vhovven said that I wanted this to reflect the likes of Triumph of the Will from 1935 where there's beautiful glossy German people.
>> I've never heard of that film.
>> Strutting around.
>> Oh, this strutting around. Sounds appealing.
>> Sculpted faces looking at flags.
>> Sounds lovely.
>> Saluting, having a good time, supporting each other and their government.
>> Where do I get a copy of this? Cuz this was on Disney Plus. Where do I go for the Will? Also on Disney Plus, >> maybe.
>> So, he cast more to that. He's admitted this more than like acting proess because Matt Damon was up for the lead in this. And look, Matt Damon would have been great in this era, but I don't think it would have worked as well if it was Matt Damon because he's not this kind of actor.
>> He doesn't look like a Nazi is what you're saying. He doesn't look like an ideal the idealized version of a Nazi, which many of these actors do, quite frankly.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, we've talked about this before and people said that that's not actually what this movie is about.
>> It is.
>> It is. And also everybody involved with it says that it is also.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> The opening school scene is like, you know what's good? This is Michael Eronside. He's got one arm cuz it got chewed off by a bug or something or it's a slammed in a door in a prequel comic.
>> Every like sort of role model has something horrifically wrong with them.
Their face has been burned off or they're missing multiple limbs or whatever. Some of these must be pre-bug, right? They were always something else anyway, you know.
>> Yeah. So the opening school scene is Michael Ironside being you know what the thing is uh violence and force solves everything actually and that's like a clear indication of what this society is which is basically what if Germany won World War II and it was just fascism here on out and this is like the idealized perfect version of fascism.
Well, also what I what I think potentially has happened in this world because many of these characters are from Buenus Aries, which of course is Yeah. that a lot of that's where a lot of the Nazis went after World War II.
They went to Argentina. So it's like what what I think is probably happened is there was some sort of I don't know popular resurgence.
>> Well, exactly. Also, so Johnny Rico in the book is Filipino. In this he is Argentinian descent, which again is where a bunch of Nazis flew. So he's probably a descendant of Nazis because of where he lives and the way that he looks. And there's things like, you know, you have to have a license to have children. You know, you got to be a certain type of citizen and give back in a certain way. And >> your full voting rights are not given to you unless you've had military service.
>> Yeah. There's a bunch of propaganda where it's like, well, the bugs, they shot an asteroid at you. Actually, >> even though if you look at the map, they're like tens of thousands of light years away. I was going to ask. It's impossible, right?
>> Well, here's the thing. So a lot of a lot of you know conspiracy theories have been built up over the years since this movie came out that many of you know based on the narrative of the movie. One of which is that the attack on Buenes areas is a false flag attack. It was actually by the earth military. This country is >> Denise Richards nudged that.
>> Well yes. So that's the thing. So, so either either the Earth military just dropped something heavy on Bonus Aries or the one of the theories that I saw was that psychic Neil Patrick Harris put a psychic >> put a psychic suggestion into the mind of Denise Richards so that when she encountered or so that she would perhaps miss initially this asteroid and then being surprised by it, she would hit it with the spaceship and that would nudge it to Earth.
>> Yeah. And and and so the idea being, you know, that perhaps Earth forces launched that asteroid from bug space >> to Earth because also like >> it could also be an accident that they went, "Oh, this is a good, you know, we'll take advantage of this."
>> Yeah. But I think that probably that one way you can frame this movie is that it is a propaganda movie made within the Starship Troopers universe, which makes sense when you just go, "Well, >> it doesn't really matter how the asteroid got to Earth. It just did kind of thing. doesn't have to make sense in the context of a propaganda film. It's just the bugs launched this asteroid and now we got to kill them all kind of thing.
>> Absolutely.
>> But yeah, if the bugs did send it, if you again you see a map of the galaxy or solar system or whatever, they're on opposite sides of that. They would have had to have sent that asteroid like tens of thousands of years before cuz it didn't go through warp speed >> to get there.
>> Yeah, unless they knew where there was like a like a black hole or something.
Yeah, maybe maybe they launch it from somewhere closer also because there are multiple bug planets. They can spawn on on different worlds. Also, yeah, the thing about all of this is humans absolutely do not need to be on these bug planets. There is no reason to be there.
>> What? Not even to spread Mormonism. Come on. Maybe the bugs just need religion.
>> So, here's a couple of quotes from Paul Vhovven. We were accused of being neo-Nazis. He also grew up under Nazism in the Netherlands. They couldn't see that. All I've done is ironically create a fascist utopia. And also, the political undercurrent of the film is that these heroes and heroins are living in a fascist utopia, but they are not even aware of it. Again, feel free to >> Yeah. What would What would he know, though? Sometimes he needs to get his wife to read the script. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. Robocop, etc. Well, speaking of that and also Total Recall, which we talked about a few weeks back, this is a very funny movie in moments and not in a gags kind of way, but in the way that there's a guy who gets his head obliterated by a pulse rifle early on, and Johnny Rico's calling for a medic, and his braids are just completely outside of his skull. There's like stuff like that.
>> That's what a medic's for, to push the braids back in.
>> The first landing that they do on Clandathu or whatever one of the worlds it is, it's just a massacre. Like it's it's awful. And Johnny Rico >> again could be a false flag. Could be a false flag. They send in the young guys who get killed and then later they send in the better guys.
>> Yeah, you might be right. It's 100,000 dead young guys. And then the movie is just Johnny Rico taking the place of the person ahead of him who gets killed. It happens like five times throughout this movie.
>> I need a court.
>> You're acting sergeant.
>> You want the job? I'll take it. the outpost defense section though. I feel like that is the best action sequence of the movie because again it's in broad daylight. You get all the different kinds of bugs. They're getting swooped down and beheaded and all of that. You find out that they've been sucking the brains out of people and the whole things are set up. It's really incredible that that whole sequence.
>> You wouldn't think you'd get much info out of a scooped out sort of swizzled around brain though, would you?
>> Probably subversion.
>> Maybe that's what the bugs are doing.
They're just punching a hole in the dude's brain and being like nothing again. I don't understand it. I thought thought we're supposed to get secret info by doing this.
>> Delicious but not useful. God. And that's also the moment of course where Michael Einside gets his legs chewed off in a crater. Now, this went really bad for him cuz he was stuck in that hole in 105° weather. He's quoted as saying, "I [ __ ] my pants. I pissed and I puked."
Cuz he was >> That's almost everything. That's almost all of the good ones.
>> You sure you didn't do anything else, Michael? Pretty sure.
>> Yeah, he doesn't remember filming that sequence. He was completely out of it.
They had to put him on an IV after. Of course, they've got like, you know, lights on him as well to illuminate the scene. So, just hot reflections hitting him. He's in all of that armor. The design of this is great. Like the world and the military equipment and all of that. It's It's really really good. And the bugs, like you mentioned, it's amazing. You get like the big tank bugs, you know, that shoot fire and Johnny Rico blows up one. Swooping bugs. The standard ones are great. Also, the brain bug is just awful. What an awful thing to look at.
>> All right, judgy.
>> Maybe it's really nice.
>> It doesn't seem really nice. It is defending itself.
>> That's what I'm saying.
>> They built the front part of that, so that's all practical and real and heaving and wet. It's horrible. But of course, this movie does have a happy ending, doesn't it?
>> Yes, >> cuz they capture the brain bug.
>> That's right.
>> And Carmon also gets rescued and Neil Patrick Harris shows up and he's in a he's in a nice new uniform.
>> God, it's crisp, isn't it? Everyone looks good in black with symbols and hats.
>> Yeah. Like it is like this upbeat ending, but it's so sinister like obviously because of the real implications and how we even got here and what's going to happen in the future. I I thought about this, you know, at the time and then there is a movie that speaks to this being true.
>> Like did the brain bug allow itself to be captured >> cuz it could have gotten away and then >> false flag attack, >> false flag reverse subversion. Yeah.
>> And then I remembered and I had to look this up though in the third movie which I have seen.
>> Okay.
>> The brain bug plays a large part in that and it's revealed that it's been influencing people higher up in the military.
>> Oh, same guy. Same brain bug.
>> Same brain bug. Yeah. Really? So that's what's >> just chilling for a whole movie and then came back in three. Okay.
>> Yeah. Well, I do want to talk about the sequels, but God, it's just um it's a great movie.
>> Agreed. I haven't se I haven't seen any of the sequels.
>> Well, you can. You shouldn't, but you can. and we'll get to some. But first, we have to do Starship Troopia.
>> Love it.
>> You a fan of this? Yes.
>> This is the trivia section of the show where I tell you everything that you need to know about Starship trivia troopia.
>> Do I need to know >> everything you need to know?
>> Do I need to know any of this?
>> How we How we going over there?
>> Good.
>> This is everything you need to know.
>> I don't need to know any of this.
>> I'll be the judge of what you need to know. Mason, >> it's pushed more important things out of my brain.
>> Like, I guess you don't know.
>> Yeah, it's no way to know. I just feel a sense of loss. Dean Norris is in this again.
>> Oh, Dean Norris is in this, of course.
>> Yes, that's right.
>> Yeah.
>> One of Paul Vovven's faves.
>> Oh, yeah. So, several scenes were filmed of Carmon, Denise Richards, coming to grips with the supposed death of Johnny Rico while also starting a relationship with Xander. However, test audiences they started to hate the character for hooking up with somebody else even though they were broken up >> and he's dead.
>> And he died. It's acceptable. I guess she's not watching the movie though, is she?
>> That's right. How could she not know?
He's still alive. during the live action sequence where Dejanna D shoots and kills Breen Ridge accidentally. You remember that? Yeah, sure. During that scene, >> like like in Dawson's Creek, I remember >> they got married in real life. I'd have a child together, those two.
>> Isn't that fun? You show show that at your wedding.
>> I bet they did.
>> They probably did. For the whipping scene of Casper Van.
>> I remember that being a laser whip, but it's just a regular whip.
>> Me, too.
>> What movie have we seen though where somebody gets whipped with a laser whip?
It must be a movie some like of a similar era, right?
>> Yeah. like a He-Man kind of is a He-Man gets whipped with a laser whip.
>> He probably gets whipped with a laser whip. Yeah, >> He-Man wouldn't get whipped with a regular whip. He wouldn't allow it.
>> That's right.
>> Tio Smoot was trained in using a bull whip by veteran stuntman and second unit director Vic Armstrong.
>> Oh, >> who you might know as the stunt double of Harrison Ford in Indiana Jones. He whipping all day.
>> All right.
>> As we talked about when we covered those movies, but he is he does most of the Indiana Jones stuff in Temple of Doom.
That's pretty much all him when you don't see his face. Do you think maybe he's anytime he like assistant directs something he tries to get a bull whip sequence in it?
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> Absolutely.
>> Wow. But this is Phantom Thread V.
Armstrong. There's no room for a bullhipped scene in this.
>> Well, I think I think maybe Daniel D Lewis would want to learn to do some whip stuff. Also, what if he just snuck up on him and whipped him, >> right?
>> Get that on film.
>> Yes. Stay in method acting mode once you've been a whipped Daniel day. Lewis.
>> He probably could. If anyone could do it. The combat helmets in this were repainted and were used on the SWAT team at the end of the Planet of the Apes reboot from 2001.
>> Don't remember that at all.
>> Abraham Lincoln was there.
>> Yeah, I guess.
>> And they go hot, hut, hot, where's Mark Wahberg? Hot, hot, hot. Speaking of, he was also considered for the role of Johnny Rico.
>> Doesn't work at all.
>> But you would argue that of most Mark Wahberg things.
>> I would, wouldn't I?
>> Anyway, box office on a budget of $110 million.
>> Big at the time.
>> A lot of money. Lot of the time.
>> Yeah. It only made 121. Uh this did not do well and it was also critically maligned. A lot of people being like this is fascism. Yes.
>> Yes.
>> But it's uh >> this is fascism and this is an early example of us thinking that the author portraying that on screen is an endorsement of that when it's clearly not. We're stupid.
>> We're sisll and eert and we're stupid and we're talking in unison.
>> Damn.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> That's a great cisl and eert in unison impression that you've done.
>> Thanks man. RP those guys.
>> Hope it never gets pushed or sucked out of your brain. But there is a theory, a working theory, and Phil Tippet has spoken to this, that this actually underperformed because Mr. Bean did so well, which came out at the same time.
>> Okay.
>> So, kids were buying >> they thought it was a Michael Bean movie.
>> They did. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> So, kids were buying Bean tickets and then going into this >> and that could have accounted for I mean a not insignificant amount of money. I >> probably not like enough to make this profitable.
>> Probably not. It did become profitable enough. where the studio was like, "Well, there should be follow-ups to this." And there is. So, there's a 1999 CGI animated series called Rough Neck Starship Troopers Chronicles, which is based on both the book and the movie.
You might be familiar with this. Got a couple of seasons >> vaguely. Sure. Yeah.
>> There's also two liveaction movies. The second one is directed by Phil Tippet, and he was given a really small budget, and he was like, "Well, if you want me to make this, I kind of have to make this a haunted house kind of horror movie." This is four sequels.
>> Yes. So, there's that one.
>> There's Starship Troopers 3, which is kind of closer to this, and also sees the return of Johnny Rico.
>> Nice.
>> As played by Casper Van, and it has the mech suits.
>> Nice.
>> It's not very good, but it is directed by Edward Newire. And then there's two animated movies, one of which Dizzy Returns because Neil Patrick Harris puts a suggestion in Casper Vanian's brain >> that she's not dead anymore.
>> No, that he's like to give him inspiration. She like Obi-Wan Kenobi's him.
>> Okay. on Mars or something. I don't know. I only saw the clip and I went, I don't like this. But there there's been a number of video games as well, some of which are are pretty solid. Also, you might know this, but there is a reboot in the works which is going to be more of a direct adaptation of the book.
>> Oh, >> and that's going to be directed by and I think you'll like this cuz these things are always suggested and they never happen.
>> Daniel D. Lewis.
>> Neil Blumamp.
>> Oh.
>> Who was of course supposed to do the aliens as his sequel.
>> Supposed to do a lot of things.
>> Yeah. So that was announced in 2025 with him writing and directing again closer to the source material. Probably set in South Africa, probably starring Matt Damon, probably starring Chatau Copley as well.
>> Hell yeah.
>> Uh I'm not super against that happening, but >> it won't.
>> Well, it won't, but also I don't know if a a more direct adaptation of the book is just better than the 1997 version, which is exceptional.
>> Guess we'll find out. No, we won't. Just kidding. It's not coming out.
>> Well, I hope it does because why not, you know? Not because I think it'll be spectacular, but because I like movies.
They call me Mr. Sunday Movies. They say, "Hello, Mr. Sunday Movies."
>> Yeah, but they they call you that, but they don't like your name doesn't suggest whether you love movies.
>> But I know of them. And the most important thing is just seeing and knowing as many movies as you can and having a sort of opinion on them.
>> I mean, a noun being in your name doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about the the noun, does it? I think it probably necessarily does.
>> Henry Ford didn't know anything about Fords.
>> Daniel D Lewis is always around during the daytime.
>> That's true, isn't it?
>> So, you know, something to think about.
And he got whipped.
>> It's true. He did.
>> Anyways, do you want to hit towards next week? It's the last of our classic 90s sci-fi trivia.
>> Yes.
>> People have been debating Mason about what this is. They're seeing this kind of orangey maybe blue poster.
>> Well, that was every poster for a certain period, wasn't it?
>> Well, here's the reveal. It's actually Blue Streak starring Martin Lawrence.
familiar with this?
>> No, it isn't. It's not that.
>> No, it's Fifth Element. We're finally getting there.
>> All right. Okay.
>> I know there's one guy in particular that's going to be very excited about that. Bearing in mind the director is a crook bloke.
>> Also, we're not doing it for you one guy who keeps asking for it. We're doing it for everybody else.
>> You don't get to watch it.
>> That's right. We're blocking it in your region.
>> Anyways, if you'd like to see that early, >> I do.
>> Maybe you're that one guy and you want to get around it and see it early.
>> Yeah, that's true. This is the only way you can watch it. That one guy, >> that famous one guy in the comments.
>> People know him. He is famous.
>> I know.
>> Ben and Lawrence are like, "What's with that one guy?"
>> I'm like, "I don't know. I didn't make him."
>> Anyways, if you head to big sandwich.co, which is like our private Patreon.
There's early videos there. Or you can just head to our Patreon.
patreon.com/mrs Sundaymov. We're in the $10 tier. There's not only videos, we do bonus videos, including we do a comic book club, clickbait podcast, we do video game let's plays.
>> That's right. All sorts of stuff you'll never see on this channel.
>> That's right. You just won't. Also, we have a podcast called The Weekly Planet where we talk movies and comics and TV shows that comes out every Monday if you are interested. Where we talk the movie or TV show of the week and a bunch of entertainment movie hot gossip, don't we?
>> Hot goss. Salacious hot goss. M delicious propaganda for the movie industry, you might say.
>> Very good.
>> But they don't pay us. So why are we doing it?
>> I don't know.
>> We're stupid.
>> For the money?
>> No.
>> Oh, cuz they don't pay us.
>> Yes. I thought you said they're paying us. No, they're not. I thought they were saving up one big check and the check gets bigger every week.
>> And when do we get that?
>> That's what I'm asking you.
>> Anyways, thank you so much to Ben for the edit. Thank you, Ben.
>> We'll see you next week. It's Fifth Element.
>> Agreed.
>> Yeah.
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