Sports Cards in 2026 - Should We Be Worried? Guest: Andy Albert

Añadido: 2026-05-05

[00:00:12]I want to remind you guys my biggest contribution to the hobby since I got involved is the Michael Jordan hierarchy project. I pulled together some of the biggest Michael Jordan card collectors in the entire world to put together the hierarchy project. It's got [music] 368 images. This is some of the greatest Michael Jordan '90s basketball cards you can get your hands on. These posters are still available. There are only a couple hundred left. Over 700 of these have been sold. All of the details on how you can get into the Michael Jordan card collecting world and get your hierarchy project poster are in the YouTube video [music] descriptions to this video and every video that you see on the Cinjun Cardboard channel. You can also get more details on this hierarchy project poster which is 3TX two foot glossy highdefin on the cinjun cardboard website. [music] The bestkept secret. On the back you've got all the information you need to know and understand everything about these 368 cards. This is the biggest Michael Jordan packods list ever compiled. Get your hierarchy posters now. I ship them in a protective tube, FedEx, with tracking number so they arrive wrinkle-free and [music] in great condition for you.

[00:01:28]>> Appreciate you getting me on this, man.

[00:01:30]It's a blast. Hey guys, Brian with Cage of Cardboard coming at you from the great state of Louisiana. And we have a recurring Hall of Famer guest, one of the OGs, Andy Albert with Indie Ball Card Exchange, card shop owner, massive Jordan collector. Uh huge Greg Oster tag uh collection in Andes. That's all we're going to talk about today is his Greg Oster. I'm just kidding. Andy, welcome back, baby. Uh you got a goat shirt on.

[00:01:58]There's only one goat, Andy.

[00:02:00]>> That's right. That's right. You got That's really funny, though. I got to mention the Greg Oster Tag comment.

[00:02:05]There is a story in our shop about Greg Oster Tag. So, one of my friends, his name is Doug Dick. He comes in every single week. He's a dime box guru. He loves going through the dime boxes.

[00:02:15]>> Yeah.

[00:02:16]>> His good friend who's a basketball college basketball coach, his name is Mark Bailey. He's 6' 11 and he calls him Greg Oster Tag. So, Mark Bailey also comes in the shop and we give Mark Bailey all of our Greg Oster Tag cards just for the heck of it. And that I cannot believe you >> cannot believe you mentioned Greg Oster tag. But shout out to Doug and Mark on this podcast because Mark's also a big Jordan collector too. And uh you know he gets a lot of Greg Oster tags for free.

[00:02:40]>> Completely arbitrary no not planned segue into Greg Oster tag. And there's a story behind it. So >> this is gonna be a good podcast I'm sure because of the Greg Oster tag.

[00:02:49]>> That's a great sign man. That's a great sign. We're off to a great start. Andy we we do no prep on this channel. you know, I'm very disorganized, so this could go in any direction. Um, I'm not really having you on for like a collector spotlight where we specifically talk about your cards and stuff. We've done that, right? And so, um, but you're a great source of knowledge. You've been all over the place. Um, especially recently, a lot of travel, a lot of exciting stuff coming up, but a lot of stuff you just did. So, I kind of want to really just extract some information from you as a as one of the bigger card shop owners in the country and just kind of get your vibe on what's going on in the hobby, what's going on from the business side of it, what's going on from, you know, the collector side of it as well. Uh, then we'll talk a little bit about your MJS, MJS generally, MJ's on the radar, stuff like that, of course, right in the middle uh in in the body of the podcast.

[00:03:38]And then at the end, I want to talk about price disparity between PSA 8s, nines, and tens. And just kind of throw some examples out there and just kind of pick your brain and see if you see what I see and maybe see if we're on the same page or maybe we're not on the same page. And maybe it's uh, you know, you've got a different explanation for what's going on with some of the PSA 10 stuff that we're seeing than I do. So, that's kind of the game plan. That's the structure. Uh, but again, like if we go in a different direction, I mean, just any detour is fine with me. If you hear something or say something or want to talk about something, you just raise your hand. Hey man, I'm going and you're gone, right?

[00:04:11]>> Well, [snorts] shout out to my shout out to my guy RBI crew, Ryan. He calls me squirrels for a reason because I'm so distracted and so disorganized. So, um you know, I I have that nickname. So, I guess Brian, two negatives are going to equal a positive today, right? We're gonna make this thing more fun than ever.

[00:04:27]>> This is going to be so structured. So structured. We're gonna stay right on track. I promise you. Uh all right. Tell me about your shop. Tell everybody where you're at. And I know you've been on here before, but let's just get that out of the way. Get the formality out of the way. Who you are, what you do in the hobby, where you're located, and just kind of give us a synopsis of who you are and what you do in the hobby.

[00:04:45]>> So, Indie Card Exchange is in Indianapolis on the very north side of the city of Indianapolis, 96th Street, um 7035 East 96. Whenever you guys are in town from out of Indianapolis area, come see us. We love it. Um it is a true destination shop. That's what I like to call it. uh try to mirror the kind of Burbank cards, Grand Slam in Tennessee kind of feel where you you only have one shop and you definitely want to come see us because of what we offer. So that's really kind of what we've tried to ingrain ourselves. I personally love being out front and I love what engaging with people that are in the shop on a daily [snorts] basis. So I hate the busy work. I told Brian I'm like super busy right now in the office and I can't stand not being out front to take care of our customers. But you know that's what makes us unique. Yeah, we we really engage and cultivate relationships with a lot of people. We give professional advice. We offer professional grading services on site that we send to PSA if they make the cut. You know, we do kind of a filtration process. Um really focused on singles, really focused on, you know, making, you know, the best decisions for our customers on wax because we know how expensive things are today. So, a little bit of everything, man. But I think what makes us unique is the fact that we actually care about every single person that walks in the door.

[00:05:56]>> Yeah. Your day doesn't end at 5:00 PM. I I can vouch for that because I see you doing stuff and live streams and this and that and selling cards and doing podcasts. Your day does not end at 5:00 PM. I've tried to be very considerate of that and get you during business hours, right? Take you away from the menial stuff that you don't like doing and let you come on here and talk about cards and the hobby and stuff like that, but uh I I've you're like, look, I work my ass off in this thing. But you're the guy out there every time I have you, I'm like, this is the guy that works harder than me by far. So, uh I'm jealous that you do it full-time. I'm jealous you get to kind of communicate and talk about cards all day every day face to face with people. I am not jealous about your uh your hours that you put in though.

[00:06:33]>> You know what they say that the the Bible verse that I live by is to whom much is given much is required. So I mean that's very important to me. I I I feel that I feel that in a good way. I'm happy to take that responsibility, work our butt off, but make a difference.

[00:06:46]>> I love it. And I guarantee you I know for a fact like I have days like this but you have probably have every day where you look up and you're like I can't believe it's been 12 hours.

[00:06:54]>> Yeah. You know what I mean? when you do something you love, you you look up and this podcast is gonna be that way. We're gonna look up and be like, "Damn, it's been an hour. It feels like 10 minutes."

[00:07:01]>> I love it. It's one of my favorite things to jump on and do with you, man.

[00:07:04]It's it's a blast.

[00:07:05]>> Well, look, this won't be the last time.

[00:07:06]You know that. So, tell me about um your perspective of the hobby right now as a local card shop owner. We want to take a snapshot of the hobby. Everybody hears from me all the time. Everybody knows my perspective. I like to bring folks on that have as much or much more experience in your case than I do in the hobby, especially in all of the different demographics. Right. So, I'm tunnel vision, basketball cards, primarily 90, but pretty much basketball cards. You run the gambit, man. So, you're selling Pokemon cards, you're buying Pokemon cards, you're selling buying collections, you're doing live streams, selling stuff on whatnot.

[00:07:37]There's an intruder in the background.

[00:07:38]There's an int.

[00:07:40]>> Okay, I'm just making sure. [laughter] Just a live robbery. We got, you know, we've got the evidence we need.

[00:07:46]>> Are you robbing me right now?

[00:07:48]>> Oh, he's bringing us food. Now, now we're talking. I'm okay with that.

[00:07:52]>> That's right. That's right. So, so give us just give us a snapshot of what you're seeing in the hobby as a local, you know, I say local card shop owner.

[00:07:58]You're a big car shop owner. You're you're the card shop in Indianapolis, the card shop of Indiana. So, give us that perspective, man. Right now, >> I appreciate it. I would say it's I've never seen I always I think I've told people this before. I don't know if I've ever said this on our podcast, but I view success in the shop for us as number of transactions, not dollar amount. Yeah. So to me, success is growing our transaction account on a daily or weekly basis. And we really track that closely. And that right now is at its all-time high. There's no question about it. Um the month of February of all months, the shortest month of the year was our busiest month in the entire history since I've owned a shop 14 years. Like it uh oh, you just froze.

[00:08:47]seeing we're seeing the margins get tighter with tops which is just part of the industry as a whole. Everybody across the board is doing that. But I'm so happy with the number of transactions. I mean I've got literally sticking on my wall in front of me kind of a Wilt Chamberlain style piece of paper of about what's the date that they put on here? But it was about a year ago that they broke our daily record that wasn't a holiday and they were holding up this sign 348 transactions in one day. Um we've since we've since beaten that, right? But I just love that that iconic picture the guys are literally holding it Will Chamberlain style and he got his 100 points. But so to me like that's that's that's healthy for the hobby.

[00:09:25]>> Retention is the next part. Like the retention piece is what we really really focus on because you can get burned out fast in this hobby because you lose money and you lose money and you feel like you're gambling as opposed to collecting. So, that's a really vital piece to me is like how do we ret retain these customers that walk in because we have more first- timers than we've ever had in the history of of the industry in in Indianapolis at least. And I know it's it's kind of a sentiment across the board, right? Um, most people throughout the country are doing the best they can to not only bring new people in, do kind of the fanatics, you know, mantra of 10xing the hobby, blah blah blah, but also retaining those customers because you almost have to 20x the hobby to keep the 10x number sustainable, right? Yeah.

[00:10:07]>> Um, >> so I I'm really happy. Um the you know I'm nervous in a way because we've never had this big of a transition where one company kind of manipulate not manipulates I shouldn't say that but like owns the marketplace in a way that pricing is definitely an issue. Um you know I don't feel good coming out on the shelves with Tops Chrome Hobby Football at $1,000 a box. It just doesn't feel right.

[00:10:29]>> Yeah.

[00:10:30]>> But what would the box have been in 2020, Andy? Just for just for hypothetically I know we didn't have it, but say we did. Well, let's I mean, a lot of people compare Prism and Tops Chrome, right? They're pretty similar type products. Yeah. 2020 Prism Basketball and football, they came out and they were selling for about 250 to 300 a box. Now, they did jump a little bit during the COVID boom, but they still weren't $1,000 a box out the gate, right? And, you know, it also depends on rookie classes. 2020 football is one of the most iconic classes of all time because of the quarterbacks. 2020 basketball wasn't at the beginning because it was like LaMelo and Ant-Man and they were kind of like okay but not great.

[00:11:09]>> They weren't Zion and Jaw. Oh boy, did some people miss on that.

[00:11:14]>> Exact. You're naming one of them right here. I mean, I lost I've lost the most money on one card in of all time on a Zion card. I lost $19,000 on one Zion card. But um it is what it is, right?

[00:11:25]That's part of the game. But my point is is like now we're coming out the gate and pricing is fixed and you're the dealers are paying higher to start. The dealers have tighter margins when they're selling to the customers and then there's multiple waves that come through. Wave one, wave two, wave three that we are continuing to pay higher and higher as long as the demand is out there and they see the secondary marketplace accepting those type of prices. And uh that's the part that I am scared about. I think we do have a correction on that piece of it in the near future. But on the flip side, huge kudos to Tops in the way that they market the product, right? They are they're the most they're the most behemoth marketing team that this industry's ever seen in a good way because they have attractive hits. They have Chase cards that people are constantly going after and will do whatever it takes to get it. So, if that's the case and those Chase hits haven't been pulled, you're going to see demand go up and then therefore price goes up, too. So, it's >> I like it. I'm very comfortable with the way the marketplace is now, but I also know that as a shop owner and as a dealer, we also have to put our eggs in other baskets that we can control to make sure we're taking care of our customers. You know, like I said, grading, consignment, supplies, buying and trading singles in store so that people have kind of that liquid, you know, supply chain that starts and finishes at the card shop. So, um, it's a long-winded answer. I know that. But I would say overall as a, you know, from the health perspective, I give it probably an eight out of 10 when it comes to the health of the hobby right now.

[00:12:52]>> Well, that's good because there was so much uncertainty when we went to it. You know, we were worried about the, you know, the long-term survival and whether or not local card shops could thrive under this new regime that we're we're dealing with here.

[00:13:03]>> Um, and it sounds like they're thriving for sure.

[00:13:06]>> Thriv thriving consists of number of people. it doesn't consist of dollar amounts right now because we do have to have more people in the door in order to cover all of our expenses and our payroll and everything like that.

[00:13:18]>> Well, it's the dollar amounts per transaction that concern me. Like that's that's what concerns people like me in the hobby. It's like uh we know there's a massive influx of folks in the hobby, but >> this is just my opinion.

[00:13:32]>> They're buying at or near the miniature peak. We'll call it a mini peak. We'll call it a miniature temporary peak. So we don't use the B- word, we don't offend anybody. It worries me because what we saw in, you know, late 2020, Q1, Q2, 2021 is, let's just go back to your guy Zion, right? We've got, you know, a lot of people that come in and they are throwing their money at, you know, Cooper Flag or Zion or Wim or J or whatever and they're paying, you know, $80,000 for a single card, $140,000, in Kon Canipple's case, $30 something,000 for Conanipple cards. It worries me when you talk about retention and that being the key to long-term success. It's going to be easier to retain collectors than it is to contain new to the hobby investor types who are only here because they see and hear about the dollar signs, right? Those are the folks. We may not retain them. In fact, those folks I have a suspicion are going to take a right hook square in the nose and maybe they disappear, maybe they come back. I don't know. But there's going to be a lot of folks that are going to uh that are going to have some a rude awakening coming really soon. But the collector types, the kids that are coming in, the kids that are trying to put together insert sets or the kids that are collecting, you know, uh the more affordable parallels and inserts and things like that, I think those that's a great sign, man. And I think that is a big part of the demand. It's not just hot potato investor types that are coming in. You see it, you know, obviously every day working the shop.

[00:15:00][snorts] >> I see both. I mean, like to to compound on what you just said, I've also kind of seen more celebrities enter the scene in this game than I ever have in my life.

[00:15:09]Like COVID time, the COVID time was was more of just a we we perfect storm type situation, right? Everybody's trapped at home. Everybody's got money to spend and cards just took a absolute like leap like a huge leap in the right direction.

[00:15:24]But we all knew that that was going to s not sustain. It was going to kind of fall off a cliff, which it did. 22 and 23. I truly feel like now we're the educators. We're the ambassadors. And I'm working with so many different people that want to get into the game that are on the celebrity status level, whether it's athletes, whether it's, you know, musicians, whatever it is, even here in Indianapolis, that they see it as the best tangible asset that protects them and also allows them to collect what they actually want to go after. So that didn't really happen back in the day. Back in the day, I think five years ago, it was more of just a free-for-all.

[00:16:01]Go get it, have as much as you can, and pray that some of it holds on. And all of us saw the writing on the wall. Now, whole different ballgame that the celebrities and athletes themselves want to go after not only their own cards, but their peers because they see that as a potential money maker down the road, long term, not short term.

[00:16:19]>> Well, that's the question. So, that's the qu that's the burning question. And who nobody's better to answer that question than you because you lived and breathed this deal. So tell me the let's first talk about the differences between uh what we used to call the bubble of quarter uh one 2021 you know March of 2021 April of 2021 when we saw the hobby do a little bit of a detour take a little bit of a reset and then go on maybe a three-year downward journey right I made a video every single day for those thousand days when cards went from way the heck up there to way off the screen down here uh every day I made a video and every day. Not every day, but at least weekly, I would say, I am having so much fun making these videos talking about sports cards in a declining market. I can't wait until one day I can hit the record button and start talking about the positive things that are happening to card prices specifically. And of course, here we are in the last two years has been bananas, right?

[00:17:16]>> Um, what are the what are the differences? Why is this not just 2021 all over again? Tell me why it's not the same. Uh, I think it because there weren't as many advice givers like good advice givers five years ago. Um, five years ago people were doing what they thought was the right, you know, the decision to make, especially when you're coming into the market as an investor.

[00:17:36]Now more people are giving the right advice and not jumping into a certain player yada yada but they're giving the advice to build foundation levels to to make sure you have a concrete foundation down here and then play with a little bit of the the gamles if you will on the on the top end. Make the the guys that are current, the guys that are rookies and and we're taking a gamble on. But there's so much more wisdom in the hobby five years later and the the the cream always rises to the top. You're one of those guys. You're giving the proper wisdom to the people that watch your show. And that's why your numbers continue to grow because you are truly giving the right un, you know, wisdom and advice on single cards, unopen wax, gradability, things like that. That That's why I want to jump on this because I want to do the same thing for our local audience here in Indianapolis.

[00:18:29]And it's happened. I mean, it's not we don't win on every single one, but you look at the macro. That's I don't look at every stock that I own in my Edward Jones account. I look at the macro. Am I growing at 10% or 12%, right? And people were so fixated. Again, you go back to Zion and Jaw. You only wanted a Zion Williamson card and you were going to put all your eggs in one basket. It's different now than it was back then. So, that's what I think. I think the advice giving is better from the people that everyone trusts. And I also think that people are smarter in the way they're spending their money because it wasn't just a free handout like it was five years ago. This is your hard-earned money now that you're actually wanting to to grow.

[00:19:05]>> The target card's different. You know, I remember you remember the flex in 2019, 2020 as we led up to the to the what we then called the bubble. You remember the flex? Look, dude, I was part of it. Like there would be a picture and it would be 48, you know, I remember taking pictures of 40 or 50 Giannis PSA 10 rookie cards base. like that was my flex, right? And and 16 Jordan 86 fleer rookie cards.

[00:19:30]That's no longer what it's about. It's about making somebody say, "Oh, wow.

[00:19:34]What is that?" You know what I mean? Uh and that's sort of uh at least on Instagram. That's the vibe, right? Those are the posts. It's no longer, "Look how many LeBron 2003 tops Chrome, you know, base PSA 10 flagship rookie cards I have." It's I found this LeBron. It's a thirdyear LeBron. It's serial numbered.

[00:19:51]You've never seen it. I'm gonna post it on Instagram and get a whole bunch of likes and wows and start a conversation.

[00:19:56]So, it's definitely different in that way. The one thing that does worry me is that uh if I told you, let's just say Cooper flag in the next five years. All right, I use a Cooper. I think he's a historic prospect. He's going to be great. He's a can't miss for sure. I don't know where he goes, but he's a can't miss. um Cooper flag over the next five years, let's just say starting next year, makes five consecutive first team all NBA teams. Let's just say hypothetically. And let's say he leads his team to the NBA finals. Are his cards going to be worth more in five years or less?

[00:20:32]>> In five years, I mean, I think we have a it's a two-part answer. I think the cards that will be more are those unique cards, you know, the the one of ones, the low-numbered auto rookies from those like top three or four sets. Those will be more. I'm guaranteeing that if he does what you're saying he's going to do, those four three or four type sets, the Tops, Chromes, the, you know, what's going to be probably like a dynasty type RPA, I think, >> golds or something. Yeah. Super elite.

[00:21:00]Yeah.

[00:21:00]>> Big appreciation. I think in the meantime, while he's getting those five allNBA first teams and getting to a championship, the stuff that's the mediocre level or down type stuff will will hit a hit a downturn, right?

[00:21:13]>> Um, >> so yeah, I mean, it's a two-part answer.

[00:21:16]Will it grow eventually if he does what you're saying he does? Absolutely. But the exponential growth is going to be those people that are willing to spend 50 grand on a card and and it turns into a hundred grand, right?

[00:21:27]>> Yeah. And you know the reason I ask you that question, it's not a trick question, but the reason I ask you that question is is Luca Donuch did all those things.

[00:21:35]>> He did every single one of those things.

[00:21:37]>> That's fair.

[00:21:37]>> And that's his chart from 2021 to today, you know.

[00:21:42]>> Yeah. Don't you believe Don't you believe the 2021 blip is completely >> was a completely false?

[00:21:49]>> That's the question is are we in another blip? You know, that's kind of my question is like how much though, Andy?

[00:21:55]Let's just say it's not a blip. Let's say everything is going to go relatively right now. It's not steady up and to the right. It's way up and to the right. But let's say >> we get back to steady Eddie up and to the right. The market's going great.

[00:22:06]You're you 100% agree with you. The demand's going great. Everybody sticks it out.

[00:22:11]>> Uh how much I mean how much is built in is my first question. Like how much is built in for Victor, for Cooper Flag, uh for Conan Nipple for God's sakes who may never be the best player on his team. I mean, how much is already built into those prices? What do those guys have to do if Donuch couldn't do what he did was not enough? The odds of any of those guys doing what Donic did is very low in my opinion.

[00:22:36]>> Um, but you know, God willing, they do it and they stay healthy. You know, are the cards going to be worth more or are they going to be worth 40% like Donuch stuff is?

[00:22:44]>> It just kind of worries me. And and it's funny because I sold all my Donuch in 2020ish, you know, somewhere around there. And I'm back buying Donic right now.

[00:22:53]>> Yeah, >> I sold all my Giannis back then.

[00:22:56]>> I'm buying Giannis right now because their cards are Giannis cards, his Prism color is down 85%. Man, I mean, that's crazy. This is a guy who is if he gets kicked by a horse tomorrow and never plays basketball, he is still a top 20 probably 20 25 player that has ever lived.

[00:23:13]>> Um, so I I don't know. It's interesting.

[00:23:15]I just I just worry there's going to be a little bit of a reckoning because there is a false you mentioned the the high-end products and the big cards.

[00:23:22]Yeah, >> there is a false sense of security that a card serial number 10 is serial number 10, you know, and it's a little bit of funny math if you ask me because, you know, if you look up uh on trading card database, for instance, Cooper flag tops chrome gold, you're gonna find like 40 different golds, you know, you're going to find a mis, you know, if you include inserts and the base and the gold shimmers and the gold, you know, monkey skin and the gold this gold polka dot gold fast, all the gold stuff, you're going to get a lot more than just 10. It just worries me that people have this false sense of security like I've got one of the 10 in the world. You know, >> that's the stuff that worries me and I don't think there's enough education going on about that that funny math.

[00:24:03]>> Agreed.

[00:24:04]>> No, I I totally agree with you. I think the index explosion that you you showed on that spreadsheet or the uh the chart the chart it really was dictated also by the way that people thought that they could buy a base PSA 10. Yes.

[00:24:17]>> And flip their money, right? So >> it is a big influence. Yes. That's the difference now, I think, that we'll not see this like Mount Fuji Mountaintop from 2021 and you're going to see more of a a an eb and flow peak on somebody like Cooper because Cooper's PSA 10 chrome rookie is maybe a $400 card, right? And I think that thing's kind of maxed out personally because there's going to be a ton more 10s that keep continuing to come in. So supply and demand, there's going to be over supply of base PSA 10s and less demand because of that. But it's those high-end cards like you talked about, like not even the gold waves or gold shimmers. It's going to be the true hobby color that the investor knows and has been given the right advice to only go after that kind of stuff. So yeah, I think we're both kind of like in agreement, but we're also just kind of thinking a little differently of now, the peak now versus the peak five years ago is a little bit different in my opinion.

[00:25:08]Um, let me ask you one more hobby shop question, then we'll get down to the nuts and bolts and start talking about some cool stuff, some Jordan stuff. Like from a hobby uh perspective, it doesn't sound like you're having any issues with allocation. I talked to car shop owners every once in a while down here locally and guys that are trying to get product uh any issues with that since the transition tops fanatics and all that stuff. I mean, are you having is it different now than it was, let's say, in 2023 for Andy Albert? How is it different getting the wax to put on your shelves?

[00:25:38]>> So, we're definitely having issues with allocation. I just don't bark about it a lot. So, you don't hear me you don't hear me screaming to the rooftops about give me more, give me more because it just it's reality. Um, you know, the difference for us now as a hobby shop, do we get the product every time it comes out? Yes, because we're kind of a, you know, we're a grandfathered account that's been in business for 34 years.

[00:25:59]>> What we don't get is I can't offer cases to my customers. You know, even my regulars, my big my big whales that like to buy a lot, they are only getting like two, three, four boxes of every product.

[00:26:10]>> Um, unless we don't pre-ell out of it because I have to kind of please the entire >> That's a choice. That's your choice though, right? That's your choice to make sure you Yeah. Okay. That's fine.

[00:26:19]Customer satisfaction is everything.

[00:26:20]>> Yeah. As many as many people happy as we can at a fair price. you know, we we come out at, you know, a percentage under market almost every product that comes out because we want to make sure that they they don't feel like they're getting kicked in the teeth, even though we still have to make some margin on the initial waves of product. So, the answer is yes. We don't get the product we used to get back in the day. You said, you know, what did we get even six years ago, you know, we could get, let's keep using Prism and Chrome as an example, we would get 15 to 20 cases of a Prism product.

[00:26:49]>> Wow. because because we ordered it. We used Panini. We used all the distributors and we would order it across the channel with four four or five different major distributors and we would get what we ordered. Um >> they're gone, right? Distributors no more.

[00:27:02]>> Yeah. Unfortunately, they don't get to sell anything TOPS related. So, we are given an allocation. We have to accept that allocation. If you don't pay for it, you know, you you're you're almost getting scored about what you do and don't pay for and what you do and don't accept, which we accept everything. you know, we're a shop that can kind of handle the lumps when when it's a product that kind of comes out as a stinker, but uh we still we still take everything, but then you play those multi-wave processes. So, will we get more product? Yes, we have to pay more and then we have to charge more. So, it's just um >> it's it's a game and it's, you know, it's a game that's going to continue to progress that way now that the three major sports are under one umbrella. U again, not a negative thing. It's just part of the process, but it is impacting the end consumer because I have probably 20 what I would consider like regular really good customers that I want to cater to and take care of them as much as I possibly can because I don't want them having to go elsewhere, but they almost have to if they want to buy more product, right?

[00:27:58]>> Yeah, makes sense. How many just for example, because I'm coming at it from a position of complete ignorance, like how many cases of I know Tops Chrome football apparently is a big deal. It's coming out or it just came out. What?

[00:28:09]Soon? Next week.

[00:28:10]>> It just came out this week. Yeah. So >> this week. Okay. So how many cases did you get of that if you can share that?

[00:28:15]>> Sure. Our initial our initial allocation was four cases of hobby.

[00:28:19]>> One one case of jumbo and one case of delight is what we got.

[00:28:22]>> And so six cases let's say give or take.

[00:28:24]How many of those? How many boxes you have left?

[00:28:26]>> We got some of the retail too. We got some of the the value blaster boxes and some hangers and stuff. But um >> how many hobby do you have left? the we're we're talking on a Thursday product released yesterday and we have zero jumbo, zero delight, and only one case of hobby left right now. And we and we sold half of our blasters at like the SRP just to help our customers out to get a good $40 blaster. And now they're going for 90 bucks a box. So, it's kind of crazy. But, uh, all of that, all of that's sold out except for pretty much hobby.

[00:28:56]>> Yeah. You [snorts] know, Andy, back in the day, my favorite thing, what last hobby shop thing? I can't stop talking about hobby shops. I think I'm going to open one. Uh, do you want a South [laughter] Louisiana franch? You need to franchise it down here. It would be called Kinjun Ind. It would confuse people. Kinjun Indianapolis basketball card. No. [laughter] >> Uh, I remember walking in to my local card shop, which no longer exists, sadly. And, uh, the thing that I enjoyed most was they would have these uh, uh, like clear plastic display cases and they would have individual packs that you could buy. I could buy, give me two, give me two of those, you know, 1989 upper decks. I'm chasing the Griffy.

[00:29:32]Give me two, you know, 1988. I want the Greg Jeff. Give me two 1988 Don Russ.

[00:29:37]You know, I'm trying to get that Greg Jeff. And you can kind of pick and choose and do a buffet at an affordable price. You can't do that anymore for the very obvious reason that case hits exist. And now no one knows if the case hits in the packs or has been yanked out of the packs by the dealer or by a customer, whatever the case may be. Uh, is there ever a way that we'll get back to that? Because because people always talk about how do we keep kids in the hobby? How do we keep kids in the hobby?

[00:30:02]Well, the only way to get a hobby pack is to buy a hobby box. And hobby boxes, as you just said, for Tops Chrome, maybe pushing a thousand bucks. Like, is there ever going to be a way where they can walk in and do that? Other than going and, you know, putting 1987 Tops baseball packs back in there, you know, is there a way? Yeah, we do have those like little like um vendor pull out things that were you sitting on they're sitting on top of all of our display cases and they're all between like two and six dollar packs right now. They're not hobby packs. They're retail packs, you know, just to be totally transparent. But retail packs of Panini football, you know, you look at Absolute, you look at Don Rust, things like that, you still had a chance at a a Kaboom or a Downtown and cards like that. It's just the retail version versus the hobby version. So, those are still successful and we're trying to cater to every audience, kids, people that just want bargain packs to have fun and and it's it's successful. We do the same thing with Pokemon, right? We have like the Japanese Pokemon and the the lesser popular Pokemon packs that sell between five and $10 a pack. So, yeah, it it's harder. There's no question about it. It's much harder to cater to the the bargain buyers that want to just have fun ripping cheap packs. And uh >> but yeah, we do cater to that as much as we can and it gets picked over very quickly.

[00:31:18]>> Yeah. Um all right, let's get down to business, man. What's the last MJ?

[00:31:22]What's the last meaningful MJ you picked up to put into your PC?

[00:31:27]>> Two of them. Two really good ones. Um >> tell me the first one is the Decade of Dominance Black Diamond green number to 100 MJ. Um got a graded a PSA 9. I bought it in a collection from a guy who we graded for him and he knew that I needed that for the PC so I bought it from him after the card came back. Um the biggest one that is kind of like you and I what do we call them? Ghosts. Is that what I buy from you as ghosts?

[00:31:54]>> See why Card Ladder is the industry leader in sports [music] card data. We know what you want because Card Ladder was created by collectors for collectors. Card Ladder. Join the innovators, not the imitators.

[00:32:08]Yes. Yeah.

[00:32:10]>> Phantom cards. Yes.

[00:32:11]>> Yeah. So, it was a Skybox Thunder rave Jordan that >> stop the 25 >> number to 150. Not the super rave. I >> Okay. Okay.

[00:32:21]>> That might be one I never see in the rest of my life, but I got a rave and it came back a PSA 8. So, there is a major issue with those cards being faked, right? Um, and they're they're re I mean it's it's a real real deal. But the fact that PSA gave it an eight, it's the first one that's gotten graded that high in years through PSA. And now I know it's fully authentic. I The guy again, the guy, >> Were you worried? Were you worried?

[00:32:45]>> No. No. Because the decade of dominance also came from the same person. So, we graded those two cards together and he was willing to sell me both of those at the same time. When they came back from PSA, I knew the decade of dominance was real. The way that the number was stamped on the back of the rave, I felt very confident. I still wanted it to be confirmed by PSA, right? But uh to get that in a PSA 8 and also get the decade of dominance in a PSA 9. Those are huge pickups for me.

[00:33:11]>> Huge.

[00:33:11]>> And uh I had a nice upgrade, too. I got a Platinum Portraits. I texted you that picture.

[00:33:16]>> Yes, of course. Of course.

[00:33:17]>> I officially own a Platinum Portraits Jordan PSA 10. So, I'm one of the 18 on that one. So, I'm pretty excited.

[00:33:23]>> Well, I don't We know where that card's been lately. [laughter] That's right. I talk about that all the time. Uh what's the difference? I've got the Rave number 150 on the screen. What is the difference aesthetically on the front of the Super Rave and the Rave?

[00:33:36]I've never held the Super Rave in my hand ever.

[00:33:40]>> Is there a >> It has that bronze look to it. So, the Rave It's similar to the ZForce one from this from the 9798 set, I'm pretty sure.

[00:33:48]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:49]>> Yeah. So, it's like more of a bronze look and then the stamp on the back is also like a bronze stamp. So, I'm I mean I'm assuming Josh Dawson has one. I'm assuming maybe Nas has one, but I don't know anybody that has a I think Josh has has a super to 25. I we like you talk about the 150s being fake. The 20 the 25 I've never personally seen a real I've never seen a real one. I think Nas says he has a real one. I mean I'm assuming that he's verified it but I've never you know again I'm not the real or fake guy.

[00:34:15]You would be surprised. And it's just because I have a big mouth and I talk about Jordan cards a lot. People think that I'm the guy, you know, reached out, hey, is this real? And I'm like, dude, >> never ever ask me. Anytime I have any question about the, you know, the veracity of any card, I am going to the experts. I am not the expert. So, I always kind of >> I guess I'm an expert because I get it a lot. People walk in almost daily, you know, whether it's a fleer rookie or a star rookie or an autograph in general.

[00:34:42]Like a guy came in yesterday with two Jordan autographs and they were as fake as fake can be. And I just felt bad for the guy. So, you know, you hate breaking the news, but you also don't want them to waste their money on authentication fees or grading fees or anything like that either.

[00:34:54]>> Yeah.

[00:34:56]>> What's the gap? What's the gap in your PC? What's the next hole you need to fill? Like, what's what's on the radar?

[00:35:01]What's the target? You know what I mean?

[00:35:02]I mean, I've got four on my radar and, you know, I don't I haven't seen one for sale in like a year, a year and a half.

[00:35:08]So, what's what's the >> strictly MJ or anything?

[00:35:12]>> Strictly MJ right now.

[00:35:13]>> Oh, man. I'm right now it's just more upgrading, right? I want to turn What's funny on top of it, like it's twofolded, I was planning on buying a few from our good friends at Aquire, Brock and Jesse.

[00:35:25]>> They just bought they bought a collection from a guy. Yeah, Richard's collection. I love Richard.

[00:35:29]>> Oh gosh, >> I can't believe he sold everything, but I'm happy for him. You know, >> I can't believe you didn't call me first. That's all. Richard, the hell with you, man. You should have called me first. [laughter] I would have gone and taken out a second mortgage on my house and it still wouldn't have been enough.

[00:35:42]But, you know, I robbed the bank and then bought the collection. You know, >> I kind of agree with you because there's probably four or five that Brock texted me about that I knew were going to be upgrades for me and I'm I'm already like, you know, pining over them. But on the flip side, family comes first and we decided to purchase a new house and move in the next year or so. So, yeah, >> that the the upgrades on the Jordans are being tabled for a little bit. But yeah, there was there's a few that I'd love to turn from a nine to a 10 or a 95 to a 10 and have some fun with. any card. Like I still would love to have the slam bams eventually because I have the Bams, Jordan. I do not I've never had a slam bams in my life.

[00:36:19]>> So that one's definitely on the radar.

[00:36:22]>> We got We got to talk. We got after the podcast. We got to talk. I got two of them. I got one for you.

[00:36:27]>> Two slam bams.

[00:36:28]>> Yes. Yes, >> man.

[00:36:30]>> I'm looking I got I'm very target right now. I got to get into another card.

[00:36:33]That slam bams is trade bait to get to the to the I need the gold medal fusion.

[00:36:37]I need the two star rubies I don't have.

[00:36:40]Um, >> well, I can't help you on any of those, but man, we're gonna have to talk about slam once this down payment is done and everything gets settled. We might have to have a chat.

[00:36:47]>> Hey, I don't want to make enemies with your wife, man. So, maybe I won't take your call. I don't want I don't want [laughter] any trouble with with Mrs. Indie Indie card exchange.

[00:36:56]>> Mrs. Indie is doing a uh big renovation, which is why we're not moving for a year. So, that's why the money is going to be put towards a uh a renovation on that new house versus >> Yeah. buying another Jordan card.

[00:37:08]Um, what else you've been buying? You know, let's talk about outside the Jordan world. I know you collect tons of other stuff. What What else has kind of caught your attention recently in the hobby? You know, what kind of what kind of cards? Doesn't even have to be basketball. Just anything. What are you putting?

[00:37:20]>> No, for sure. I mean, it's mainly basketball for me just because when it comes to PCing, I mean, like Jordan and Curry are my two big ones. I mean, they're they're 90% of my entire card ladder value of what I have in my collection. Um, but I'm definitely going after Curries. I love anybody out there that watches Cinjun podcast here. I need that 2324 um Curry color blast that has the Golden Gate Bridge in the background and a PSA 10. There's only seven or eight I think on the PSA Pop Report. I missed out. I missed out on the one that sold on Fanatics Collect a few months ago because I fell asleep on the premiere.

[00:37:52]>> Shame on you. You're working too hard. I told you >> I was the high bidder when I fell asleep and I I was trying to stay awake. I couldn't do it. I was so mad. But >> you got a mega bid. You got a mega bid, Andy.

[00:38:03]>> You gotta just throw your mega bid in, man. Make sure you get it.

[00:38:05]>> That's true. I I guess I'm a control freak. I don't know why I don't do that.

[00:38:09]I should probably put mega bids in and just let it ride. But uh that's one of them. Um >> gosh, I mean, football-wise, I think I'm going to go back and grab some cool Pton Mannings. I've got about five of them in the PC that are pretty darn rare, but >> I just think Payton's so undervalued as from a long-term perspective, you know, where yes, he didn't win seven championships like Brady, but he was a stat stuffer and still won.

[00:38:32]>> Where is he on the all-time greatest quarterbacks list? Is he is he two still or has he been passed by Mahomes? I don't know enough about football. Is he three?

[00:38:40]>> I wouldn't put him ahead of I wouldn't put him behind Mahomes yet. No way.

[00:38:43]>> I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know rings and all that.

[00:38:46]>> Pat Pton's probably top three. I mean Brady's got to be number one and then you know people are going to say Montana which I love Montana. Um Payton's probably number three, you know, and you stick Montana at number two.

[00:38:58]>> I feel like Montana's the Bill Russell of football because it's like what do you do with Montana? you know, he played in that era where people weren't throwing for 448 yards, you know, four weeks in a row back then and throwing for, you know, 50 touchdowns. So, it's kind of hor, you know what I mean? It's like Bill Russell's like, what do you do with Bill Russell? Like, he's got he's wins, he's this and that, but it's like what do you do with him?

[00:39:17]>> You know, >> it's just different eras. I mean, I think I think cards that people should go after. Like, I'm >> I'm a big believer I know you loves the star Jordan talk, but I'm a big believer in the Star 117 second year Jordan.

[00:39:28]Yeah. People >> need your base, right? Yeah. it it's the card that PSA will eventually start grading. Um I'm hearing rumors that it's going to happen fairly soon, but even if it doesn't, like >> the true star base card, if you put it >> put it in the mindset of that card 80, that's 8586. That's still a year before.

[00:39:44]>> There only two base card. There's only true two true base cards, right?

[00:39:48]>> Yeah. 8485 and 856.

[00:39:51]>> Both of those cards were still printed before the 8687 Fleer card came out, right? So to me, that's a card that's severely undervalued. you know, compare it to the 8788 Fleer, but two years earlier in my opinion. And that card in in the high grades and nines or higher are heavily investable and so much appreciation. I I'm shocked that the big star jump on every Star Jordan right now. I think it's I'm worried about that being a little bit of an inflation bubble on the non-ookie related stuff, but the star 117's probably the exception to that rule for sure. But I'm kind of worried about like I'm seeing the prices on that 10 card Jordan set from 86 are just jumping like you wouldn't believe, right?

[00:40:31]>> Yeah.

[00:40:32]>> And why? I mean just is everybody >> you can make the argument for Crunch and Munch and Gatorade and maybe Last 11 and stuff like that, but those are >> like you know again all the there I think there's 25 maybe star cards of Jordan like legit ones real ones and >> like you I would assume you would put those 10 as the bottom 10.

[00:40:52]>> Yeah. Yeah. But those are like the best the best of the new, you know, a few of those other the you know, some of those I think should definitely not be the prices they're at right now. But who knows? I mean, the demand's going to outweigh the supply because it's such a short supply of that kind of stuff.

[00:41:05]>> Yeah, >> it blows me away right now. I'm I'm enjoying watching my card ladder index on the Jordan category jump the way >> crazy and it and look and let me share a screen share with you like wait, let me just ask you because I mean you may know this, but like the PSA 886 fleer Jordan, right? I would not call that a low pop card. There's 9,285 of them, right? We've know there's been over uh almost not quite, but in the next month, there will be 50,000 graded Michael Jordan 86 flears. Okay. So, not a not a low pop card. The PSA 8 is sort of the the go-to grade for people with enough cash to make it happen. Um do you know what that card as a pop 9,285 has quietly done just over the last two years?

[00:41:49]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:41:50]>> Yes. percentage >> uh 50%.

[00:41:53]>> Dude, it's almost doubled. Look at this.

[00:41:55]And it look because there's so many sales, it doesn't look egregious.

[00:41:59]>> 691 sales in two years, which is what 730 days. So almost a one a day. Almost one a day.

[00:42:06]>> Yeah.

[00:42:06]>> And the thing is up 92%. It's almost doubled, Andy. That's crazy.

[00:42:09]>> 92%. Wow.

[00:42:11]>> Isn't that crazy? P I mean, you're talking about now it's a $12,000 card. A PSA 9 almost identical. Almost identical, right? One third to pop. PSA 7. Um, and these are huge, huge high pop cards. And and Star is doing even more.

[00:42:25]But look, 90% 90% 90%. And you can scale any of these cards. And so, you know, our our traditional thinking or at least the the current thinking in the hobby is buy the lower pop. The lower pop always outperforms the higher pop.

[00:42:38]>> Yeah.

[00:42:38]>> And this is the same card. None of them are low pop, but like seven, eight, nine. I mean, these are all there's you could go get I could go buy a hundred of these in the next 24 hours if I could click the button fast enough. They're all performing at the exact same rate over the last two years. I think that's really strange, you know.

[00:42:54]>> Yeah. I mean, it's again, popularity versus rarity. That's what I go back when I talk to my customers who want to spend some big money. I said, you know, you've got to combine those two things.

[00:43:02]Rare and rare and popular. The Fleer Jordan is it's not rare, but it's popular. And popularity on that card is the really pretty much one of the only exceptions to the rule in that marketplace, right? Yeah. It's so popular, people just want to have it to stake a claim that they have one, right?

[00:43:19]>> Um you combine rare and popular, and now we're talking when when you've got the new people jumping into this investment world. Those are the advice pieces that I'm giving to everybody is take those two pieces, mesh them together, and you're going to have the perfect perfect recipe. So, >> well, I'm going to show you something that's going to blow your mind even more. And listen, >> I am multiaceted and I am I'm special and this is why they pay me the small bucks.

[00:43:41]>> Yeah.

[00:43:41]>> Look at the 89 Upper Deck Griffy Jr. PSA 9.

[00:43:45]>> Yeah, >> Andy. It's a pop 34,000 and it has outperformed the Jordan 86 Fleer.

[00:43:51]>> I don't >> 121%. Andy bought 3,000 of these on eBay probably over the last, you know, five months or or 15 months ago and made a fortune. This is what worries. This is very reminiscent, Andy, of 2021 type stuff. These were the cards.

[00:44:10]>> Don't you wish card ladder could take an age demographic because of that spike?

[00:44:14]Because it's ef males aged 42 to 52 years old that want to go back and have that King Griffy Jr. rookie card only to say they do. They could care less what they paid for it. They get to have a PSA 9 or PSA 10 King Griffy Jr. And that's why you're seeing that inflation spike because everybody in our age range has the money now to go back and get what they wanted they had they wish they would have had as a kid. And >> double I mean this is double. It's not going from 20 to 40. I mean you're going from 150 to 400.

[00:44:40]>> Yeah.

[00:44:41]>> That's a lot. You could make a lot of money on a card that you could scale so much. It's just crazy to think. I never would have guessed.

[00:44:48]>> No, I agree.

[00:44:49]>> You know that these kinds of cards, you know, the the mid-grade MJ Fleers and the 89 upper deck Griffy's and I haven't you know, I'm sure there's a lot more out there. We're about to look at another one here. Let me just get let me just jump straight to it. I want to show you something. It's, you know, and obviously we know there's two versions. There's this one and then there's the trade card. So, we're looking at we're looking at this one. Not not the trade card.

[00:45:09]This is a PSA 10 Shaquille O'Neal 92 upper deck PSA.

[00:45:12]>> That's rare, right? I mean, like what's the pop report on that?

[00:45:15]>> 357. Okay. So, yeah, it's it's not Griffy and and Jordan, right? So, so pop 357 and that's why it's worth $3,300.

[00:45:24]Yeah. Okay.

[00:45:26]Same card, PSA 8. What do you think that's worth?

[00:45:31]>> 50 bucks.

[00:45:33]>> 20 bucks.

[00:45:34]>> Jeez.

[00:45:34]>> Are you Are you ready for the multiplier? Are you ready for me to tell you what that is?

[00:45:38]>> Yeah. Bring it on, >> Andy. It's the same card, but in different grades. It is a 159x multiplier [laughter] based on one dude who may or may not be in a good mood's opinion on one given day.

[00:45:53]>> Yeah.

[00:45:54]>> All right. Fine. You're going to argue, "No, well, eights are never tens."

[00:45:56]Nobody's going to look at an eight and think it's a 10. Okay, fine. Let's look at the nine then. Okay, I've got a PSA 9 pulled up on the screen. You would be the first one to acknowledge you've done a lot of grading. It is >> It's a I mean, that's a coin toss 99% of the time. We just throw it against the wall and hope that it sticks with PSA.

[00:46:14]>> The PSA 9 is a $150 card, Andy. That is a 28x multiplier from 9 to 10 on a probably indistinguishable alleged flaw on a card. This card right here, I just happened to be looking at this card because somebody was asking me, I had a bunch of PSA 8s and I'm like, I need to sell these things. And I'm like, God, what am I have to sell them for? $12? You know, what am I going to do with these things? And uh so, and that's when I looked at I was like, I wonder what the 10's worth. And you know, and that that's when I saw that disparity. I was like, that's crazy. And I posted on Instagram and I was like, I cannot believe this. Um, to put it in perspective, the Jordan 86 Fleer PSA 10 >> to the Jordan PSA uh 86 Fleer PSA 8 is a 23x, not coincidentally 23x multiplier.

[00:47:01]So 159 for Shaq, 23 for Jordan.

[00:47:06]>> Wow, >> that's weird.

[00:47:08]>> So you ready for another layer of subjectivity to for me to >> you ready for a zinger? Okay. Two sets.

[00:47:14]1971 Tops baseball.

[00:47:17]>> Yes.

[00:47:18]>> 1985 Tops football.

[00:47:20]>> Okay.

[00:47:21]>> What do those have in common?

[00:47:23]>> Uh, incredibly condition sensitive. I know. 71 baseball. Was that the Was that the black?

[00:47:30]>> Yeah, there you go. Bingo. Black border.

[00:47:31]>> Impossible. Maybe there's no Maybe there's no PSA 10s. I don't know.

[00:47:35]>> Well, I think the Shack is that same subjectivity. It's a black bordered card. Fully black background. Yeah.

[00:47:41]Crazy difficult card to get in a 10, right? So, these people are like, "Crap.

[00:47:46]I'm gonna first of all, I'm gonna grade every You have so many people walk in, Brian, with the Shack upper deck rookie card to our shop." Because they see what a 10 sells for versus what an eight or nine sells for, >> we we turn them away and put, you know, shut them down right away because we see a chipped edge, we see a white corner, we see, you know, whatever it is. So to me, that's our issue with this card is that that subjectivity line of we're going to compare the 92 93 Upper Deck Shack to 71 Tops and 85 Tops football because what is a a 71 tops um you know Roberto Clemente in a nine sells for probably six figures, right?

[00:48:23]>> Yeah.

[00:48:24]>> A 85 tops Dan Marino in a 10 is going to sell I guarantee it's a >> thousands and thousands. We just saw this with a um >> I think it was a 86 tops Nolan Ryan which is what like a 20 fifth year card.

[00:48:38]You know, it sold for thousands and thousands of dollars >> because it has that black border at the top of the >> and it was real. You remember it was really soft paper and it was mushy and like you couldn't keep it crisp, you know? So, yeah. It's the got it's the got to have it mindset that those black border cards like if Topps comes out and does a black bordered set with anything in the near future, it's going to be the exact same thing. Even Heritage Baseball when it came out like five years ago, I remember the demand for TENS again because even the brand new printed cards off the most modern technology that exists were not coming back as tens because those black borders always have an issue with it. It's this it's a subjectivity layer that nobody in the industry that is like you and me that have been in it for so many years understands because they don't realize it. But those that shack is a perfect example of that. And the best place to look for that arbit, this is purely investor, right? The best place to look for that buy raw grade flip, that arbitrage is either players like Nolan Ryan's a great example. There's folks out there, you know, they say set collecting is dead, but PC and a certain player is sort of set collecting, especially if it's a vintage player like Nolan Ryan. So there's guys out there that collect Nolan Ryan. They're trying to get every Nolan Ryan tops base card in the highest grade possible, right? So there's arbitrage in those players. Even if you miss and get a PSA 9, PSA 8, if you're talking about the 70s, you're doing great, right? You could be doing great.

[00:50:03]>> Uh, and the other one is those conditions sensitive sets that people are actually trying to complete. You can't, >> you know, usually they're not trying to complete anymore like 300 card sets or anything like that, but if it's a if it's an insert set and you're you get you have access to a raw Carrie KDs uh or a raw Terrell Brandon and you're like, I just looked at the pop. It's only graded four times. There's no tens.

[00:50:26]I know people collect this set. Like I just I got a Carrie KD's Ultra Stars. It came back a PSA 9 and I was like I graded it and I I knew why I was grading it because I thought I was like if this is a 10, I'm selling this for thousands of dollars. I literally thought, you know, and I looked at the nine. I was like this is hundreds of dollars. It's Carrie KDles PSA 9 ultra stars, not gold ultra stars. Yeah.

[00:50:46]>> And it's because people want to put the ultra star set together, so they're looking for the highest grade. And I love that. I love that part of the hobby. I love that kind of niche trying to maneuver in that space from an investor standpoint. And it's always fun to get a card back from PSA. So why not, you know, why not throw a few more at it and see what happens?

[00:51:01]>> Totally agree. Going people going back to finding those goats. Shacks obviously in that goat status was far alltime centers, right? And you go back in ' 92, 93 could have probably been one of the years that was the most mass-produced products of all time, right?

[00:51:15]>> And go what shacks do you want to collect if you're a shack collector? You want that NBA draft pick, number one.

[00:51:20]You want the Beam team, number two. And you probably want that hoops draft redemption that he's in a suit in a PSA 10. Like those are three of the biggest shacks that are out there.

[00:51:29]>> Must have a 10. Like yet that you feel compelled because there's a billion of them. I got to have a 10 or it's not going to matter. You know what I mean?

[00:51:35]>> Correct. Correct.

[00:51:37]>> Yeah.

[00:51:37]>> And then there's probably >> reflect that [laughter] price.

[00:51:39]>> Going back to your Jordan argument, there's 10x the amount of people that are willing to buy that card versus what's available. Even with a PSA pop report of 9,200 of the PSA 8, there's 92,000 people that are probably watching those >> at any given moment. Y'all know >> at any given moment to buy it. And so to me, that's why I mean it'll never go away.

[00:51:59]>> Jordans are always going to outsell everything because of the fact that there's a worldwide audience just pining to have one of those cards.

[00:52:06]>> Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, those are the big three. I I think we don't need to argue.

[00:52:11]Those are the three most collected basketball players in the history of the hobby.

[00:52:14]>> Yeah. Your guy might be four or it might be the big diesel. Who do you think is the fourth most collected player? Era, am maybe I'm missing somebody.

[00:52:25]>> Um, >> and I'm not talking about women. I'm not talking about the this this nons this flipping stuff. I'm talking about collected like I am a collector of this player, you know, maybe not to the grave, but no intention of flipping.

[00:52:38]>> You think it's Curry and Shaq next? Who else could be next?

[00:52:41]>> Curry has to be right after that for sure. I think the demand on Curry >> ahead of Shaq for sure. No question.

[00:52:47]>> I mean, when you've got the greatest shooter of all time versus the greatest one of the greatest centers of all time, like Curry's inarguably the greatest shooter of all time. There's no chance, right? Nobody can argue that point. He is the greatest shooter of all time.

[00:52:58]>> I'm not arguing it.

[00:52:59]>> And and shooting the basketball is, in my opinion, more of an art than dunking the basketball.

[00:53:05]>> Yep.

[00:53:05]>> And Jordan could shoot and dunk. That's why Jordan's in in a world of his own, right? LeBron, he can shoot and dunk a bit. Kobe. Kobe's on the same thing.

[00:53:13]Like those three guys are in that upper echelon. Curry is definitely number four. I think Curry's marketplace. So, let's go back to investment advice.

[00:53:21]Number one, I think you've got me tempted to go back and buy some PSA PSA 9 and 10 Shack draft cards. [laughter] First of all, >> let's get it, baby. Let's corner the market. We only got to buy like [laughter] 12,000 each. We got it.

[00:53:33]>> Why don't you Why don't you wait to publish this uh video for about a week or so, Brian? No, I'm just kidding.

[00:53:38][laughter] But but secondly, I I truly feel like behind that cart, anything rookie curry right now >> is going to be one of those 10x demand over supply situations three, five, 10, and 20 years down the road. That's why I'm trying to buy any cool curries, >> rookies and rare inserts. Like now I'm jumping into that uh ultraviolet category. So I want to go get the ultraviolet curries that I can put in my PC. But um I I just Curry's that guy.

[00:54:04]He's number four for sure. Well, the the difference between Curry and Shaq is really quite simple. Curry looks like a human being. And Shaq is a literally like Paul Bunan. We don't identify with him. Kids don't go in the gym and say Shaq and then do a turnaround and drop step and then touch the ball on their back and then dunk it.

[00:54:22]>> They But they without warming up, without stretching, without shooting a free throw or a layup. They get to about 26 feet and then they twist and heave it from their waist and try to say Steph Curry for three. You know, because he's human. I mean, we identify with him. He wasn't born I mean he was born with a gift don't get me wrong like his hand eye coordination is like off the charts but like he he gives hope to other 6'4 175 pound you know human beings that they could go do that this guy's doing it with what God gave to me and you you know that's what's so incredible about Curry and and just he's freaking pure class like the dude is just pure class.

[00:54:58]He is >> you know what he reminds me of? He reminds me of the modernday Dr. J.

[00:55:03]You'll never hear anybody say, "I hate that guy." Uh, he's always revered as a teammate. He's never chased it. Like, never chased the rings. Never had to.

[00:55:13]But never chased the money, never chased the rings, never got in trouble off the court. That goes without saying. Like, he's articulate. He's a good-looking dude. He takes care of himself. He outworks everybody. Dude, he just checks every single box. And you know what? He shouldn't because he was born a spoiled rich kid. He shouldn't be all those things, but he is. And now you're making me want to go buy some curry stuff and I don't have any curry stuff. Maybe maybe you're just trying to trade me your curry stuff and get one of those slam bams. Is that what this is all about?

[00:55:40]Did you just plant that seed right there?

[00:55:42]>> Oh man, now you're now you're talking. I mean I would trade a Jordan for a Curry.

[00:55:45]That's for sure.

[00:55:46]>> I bet you would. I can't open that Pandora's box, man. I'm already collecting soccer crap. I'm collecting Marvel cards. Dude, I am I have lost it recently. You know, I sold a few Jordans. Got a little money in my bank account and I'm like it's spraying it all over the place. It's crazy right now. It's too hard to sell. It's like it's like gaining and losing weight.

[00:56:03]It's too easy to gain and too hard to lose, right?

[00:56:05]>> It is. Yeah. The older you get it, that gets even harder. Trust me, I can vouch for that.

[00:56:10]>> I think another thing like when we talk about Curry, like as far as like all the attributes that you just mentioned, people are overlooking the baseball side of the world and that guy is Mike Trout.

[00:56:19]I I'm back to thinking like Mike Trout is the guy that's like >> You got to explain it. I don't get it. I don't understand it.

[00:56:26]>> Explain Explain the Mike Trout deal to me. just don't understand it.

[00:56:30]>> Well, first of all, like like when we're comparing basketball numbers, like in baseball, you're looking at wins against replacement average, right? That number, that war number is such a vital number.

[00:56:39]And Mike Tra is still like I mean, he's if you look at the last 12 to 15 years, he's still the highest war of all time.

[00:56:46]And >> why why though? Why when did the you know, because I grew up in baseball, lived and breathed it. I memorized everything. I had every card in the world. I chased I all I did was collect baseball cards. I never heard the word war mentioned once in my life. It was home runs, batting average, RBI, stolen bases, maybe on base percentage. When did war become the beall endall way to measure engage players historically?

[00:57:07]When did that transition happen?

[00:57:09]>> Probably in the last five years or so.

[00:57:10]That's where people But but the numbers you just said, like, you know, home runs, RBI, batting average, trout dominated in those for 10 straight years, right? Yeah.

[00:57:18]>> And because of us being a society of what have you done for me lately?

[00:57:22]>> Yeah.

[00:57:22]>> If it weren't for Otani, Trout would still be discussed. If it weren't for Aaron Judge, Trout would be disgusted.

[00:57:26]And and those guys get all the credit they deserve, right? But you got to go back and look at it like it's kind of like what you're doing with your Giannis' in basketball just because he hasn't had a successful last three or four years. He's still putting up numbers. He's still dominant when he plays. He had some injury riddle issues.

[00:57:42]He's playing for a team that's subpar ever since they won the championship.

[00:57:46]There those are mirror images in my opinion. I I really like the long-term look of buying some good high-end rookie mike trouts down the road. I really do.

[00:57:56]>> And it's it's it's much easier to to dip your toes in the Mike Trout market when you can turn to your left and look back in time and say, "Holy hell, look where it was." That's what I did with Giannis.

[00:58:07]I was like, "This silver prism sold for $48,000 and you're telling me I'm buy for $5,000?" I mean, I got to be closer to the floor than the ceiling. I know that. So get I'm in, man. Whatever.

[00:58:18]Let's take our chances. So what do you think's going to happen with Giannis?

[00:58:21]What happens if, let me just give you a hypothetical, right?

[00:58:24]>> What happens to Giannis Cards if, let's say, a month and a half from now, it's announced, you know, he's out, they part ways, and a deal is made for him to go to the Los Angeles Lakers.

[00:58:36]>> Uh oh. There'll be an instant spike.

[00:58:38]Guaranteed. You if you put him, >> he doesn't have to play a game.

[00:58:41]>> No, he doesn't have to play one game.

[00:58:42]Hype always outweighs performance every time in this industry. We are a hype monster in this industry. So, putting Giannis on LA is going to be nuts. But I think it's going to probably end up being New York or Miami from what I'm kind of feeling.

[00:58:55]>> New York.

[00:58:55]>> Yeah.

[00:58:56]>> I mean, if it's New York though, it's going to be the same spike. There's no question.

[00:58:59]>> No, I know. I know. But I just like as a person who wants to watch a basketball game, I don't want to cheer for New York and I'd have to cheer for New York.

[00:59:06]Maybe I'll just sell them all before he plays his game.

[00:59:08]>> No, you won't do that. There's no way you do that. But no, I I think the Giannis spike's going to happen because he's going to end up on a team that's a high-profile team that has a chance to win a championship right away. You know, we're not going to unfortunately see him come to the Pacers or anything like that, right? Yeah. But uh >> um yeah, I mean, that's another situation. You know, let's go back to the Trout argument. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but like if Trout had gone to the Dodgers or to the Yankees or to the Red Sox or even the Phillies, he's from Philadelphia. You put him on any of those big market teams and I guarantee you his value is 50% higher than what it is right now.

[00:59:42]>> Is it too late? How old is Trout?

[00:59:44]>> He's like 35. I mean, he's it's not looking too late right now. The start of this season's been like back to like five years ago Trout. He's he's killing it right now. Um but on the flip side, you know, probably in baseball, you know, terminology, he's he's at the 70 year old dog years kind of feel right now.

[01:00:00]>> Yeah. We got five minutes left and I want to talk about your Pacers. And I the first question I want to ask you is what does it feel like to be uh a fan and live in a state with a whole bunch of cheaters?

[01:00:11][laughter] >> Um I I think we're going to be fine.

[01:00:17]>> Oh yeah. No kidding. You think you think you think getting a top draft pick and then getting back, you know, one of the 10 best players in the world might help your team.

[01:00:24]>> Uh what's left of your team? I don't even know who's on your damn team because I've been watching the Fort Wayne Mad Ants or whatever they're called play every game for your team.

[01:00:32]You know, it's like Andrew Nimhard, >> uh, his left index finger experienced some soreness, so we're gonna just play it safe and let him play every third game. That dude's good, man.

[01:00:43]>> Oh, he's great. This I mean, so the the uh the tanking situation, you know, I would say my friend who's also a customer here, and I'm gonna get so thankfully we don't have millions [snorts] and millions of people watching this podcast, but the president of the Pacers, Kevin Pritchard, is a customer of Indie Cart Exchange.

[01:01:00]>> Yeah, >> that man is a genius. That's all I can say. Right. We are >> the way he was supposed to. The Celtics didn't and he did.

[01:01:07]>> We are going to be the late 90s Spurs is what is my prediction. Tim Duncan coming in after one one year of tanking because of David Robinson injuries.

[01:01:16]The Pacers if they get number one and they get Debonsa, Tyresese Hallebertton, Andrew Andrew Nemhard, Aaron N Smith, Pascal Seakum. I mean the the opportunities are endless. I am so excited. Every Pacer fan has prayed for tanking over the last 20 games and they've done a good job.

[01:01:35]>> They embraced it. Let me [laughter] tell you, they they you talk about trust in the process. This is capital P process what they just did. But yeah, I I don't let me just tell you what I think about this upcoming draft class. I think there's one camp miss uh and by can't miss I mean can't miss superstar. I think it's Dansa.

[01:01:52]>> Dons. I think he's a campmiss superstar and he would fit in really nice next to Seakum for a year or two and then he is >> probably Seakkum 2.0 and then some.

[01:02:01]That's my that's what I see when I see Deansa.

[01:02:04]>> Darren Peterson scares me to death. And I just don't see it with the Boozer kid, man. I just don't see it. I see I see Al Horford. He I just don't He's not elite athletically. He's not uh like plus size for a center. He's not super quick for uh he can't play a wing or hybrid wing, you know what I mean? I I just don't I think he's gonna be a good player for a really long time. I don't I just don't see greatness. Uh pretty good IQ, but I see Al Horford. I don't know. I mean, a lot of people see, you know, >> you all know that the Pacers, you know, they gave up Benedict Matin to the Clippers to get Zubots, right?

[01:02:38]>> They do. Yeah.

[01:02:38]>> And but they if they get the fifth pick, they don't get that pick. They have to have a top four pick to be able to get what they want. So that's how confident they are with the top three or four guys because they they felt like it kind of drops off tremendously. And yeah, you know, we got we got some info, you know, just to hear that mindset of a Pacers president of what the decisions are to give up that many opportunities at top draft picks just to get the top four.

[01:03:02]Um, knowing >> what those four guys bring to the table.

[01:03:06]I agree with you though, Debba is a check mark. First overall draft pick, game changing by himself. That's me.

[01:03:13]>> I I compare him to a healthy in his prime Tracy McGrady is kind of where I put him.

[01:03:18]>> Yeah. Yeah. He's I think he's more skilled than McGrady. I don't think he's quite as elite athletically. Athletic, don't get me wrong, but I see him more skilled right now than Trace McGrady was certainly as a rookie Raptor. You know, I agree with you, man. And I think he hits the ground running. Like there's no waiting period. Like that's your second best player day one. Like I see that.

[01:03:39]They'll put Seakum at the four, put Debbonsa at the three, Alli and Nemhard one and two and N Smith probably has to come off the bench in that situation.

[01:03:48]Yeah, because Zubots would be the starting center. Think about that lineup, man. It's just insane.

[01:03:52]>> Well, Nimhard would be better coming off the bench running your second unit as the as a scoring point, you know, theoretically. I mean, I think he's better than N Smith, you know, if what just comparing him, but like he would probably fit better as your crazy six-man. Your Ben Gordon kind of come off the bench and scored, you know, 18 a game guy. Um, no, you you've got some exciting stuff in the very near future for the base. It sounds like you're going to keep one of those those top you're going to get one of those picks, huh?

[01:04:14]>> Well, they've got the same chances as two other teams, so hopefully we got a 33% chance of getting the number one pick. So, let's see what happens. I think it's Pacers, um, Nets and Wizards are all have the exact same ping pong balls.

[01:04:28]>> Yeah.

[01:04:28]>> Yeah. I'm excited, man. Indianapolis is very, very pumped about it. We're we're buzzing at the moment.

[01:04:33]>> That's exciting. Well, cool. Well, let's end it on that. That's some exciting stuff. And you got a a bright future for your card shop. Bright future for Well, anything else you want to share about uh the card shop. Anything coming up? You mentioned something really cool that you guys got invited to do. Tell us about that. I'll let you, you know, blare the trumpet a little bit. Tell people how great you are. I'm always telling people how great you are.

[01:04:51]>> I appreciate it, man. Thank you. I mean, two big things I would say. The big one that we just discussed, Indie Card Exchange is one of the eight shops that was invited to be a part of the NFL draft uh coming up at the end of April.

[01:05:01]Um, we are going to be setting up as a card shop, literally like a pop-up card shop and representing one of the divisions of the NFL with trading cards.

[01:05:09]So, we are going to have as many Colts, Texans, Titans, and Jaguars cards that you can possibly imagine. Uh, bringing it to the a basically mini shop on Steelers Field. Used to be Hines Field.

[01:05:21]Now it's what? Acer Stadium, I think.

[01:05:23]But, uh, I'm I'm fired up. I'm very honored that Indie Card Exchange gets to be a part of that. So, we'll have four or five people there representing. And uh the other big thing is >> talking about the Pacers, our main man TJ McConnell, who's a friend of the shop as well, he's coming in and doing an autograph session with his sister, Megan McConnell.

[01:05:41]>> So, she just got signed in a like a short-term contract with the Fever to potentially be a part of the team, but it's a brother and sister combo autograph session we're doing in the show.

[01:05:51]>> I've never heard of such a thing.

[01:05:52]>> It's I'm so excited. It's April at the same time. Reggie and Cheryl, but not, you know, not, you know, they didn't overlap like that. Yeah, >> I would take Reggie and Cheryl to come in for a signing, too. But like, >> no kidding. Yeah, that'd be cool, too.

[01:06:03]>> DJ and Megan, like we might be the only shop doing this for for in the near future, the even the foreseeable future.

[01:06:08]But, uh, yeah, April 27th, we're going to be doing a signing session with them.

[01:06:12]You can get both >> both signatures of both of them for 40 bucks. I think it's worth it. And we'll have And TJ is one of my favorite guys in the entire >> world of of of professional sports. He is a quality, genuine human being. Um, when he says something, he means it, which is pretty cool.

[01:06:29]>> I'm so glad you said that. He's He's also a fantasy god. Like, if anybody goes down, he is a god in fantasy.

[01:06:36]>> He's [laughter] awesome. No, he I nothing but amazing things to say about TJ, and I'm sure his sister's the same way. I haven't met her yet, but uh yeah, April 27th, and then that's the week right after the NFL draft. So, we've got a lot of things going on at Indie Card Exchange.

[01:06:49]>> Uh, one last thing, I forgot to ask you this. You went recently to the um the indust the TOPS industry summit. Is that what it's called? Yeah. Give me give me one takeaway. We don't have time to talk about all of it, but give me one one thing that you came away with saying, "Oh, I like that. I like the sound of that."

[01:07:04]>> Uh I like the sound of it. The the inserts that they're trying to compete with on the new products that are coming out because you know how much of an insert junkie I am and have been since the 90s.

[01:07:13]>> Topps is coming out with some crazy cool stuff in multiple multiple platforms.

[01:07:18]Um, but I think there will be a competitive marketplace where, you know, Topps knows that Kabooms, Downtowns, Color Blasts, Mangas are the the all the rage, right, with Panini. They they're trying to compete with it. And I think the stuff that I'm that I got to see and preview are definitely going to be that.

[01:07:35]I really do.

[01:07:36]>> Wow factor, the shock and all. You like the look of it. It's like, oh, I need to know more about that. Tell me more about that. That's what you >> and rare. Popular and rare. That's what I keep pushing on people right now.

[01:07:46]Combine those two together.

[01:07:48]Man, fantastic. Thanks for joining. Um, I put a script together in two minutes and we could have talked for 14 hours about it. It's just easy every time you come on. So, I I appreciate your time. I know you're busy and I know you got lunch waiting for you, too. So, go eat your lunch. We'll get you back on the channel. And, uh, you better send me a hell of a package for this Slam Bams. I I better become one of the biggest curry collectors in the world.

[01:08:09]>> What's your What's your grades? I'd love to know. What are they?

[01:08:12]>> Um, let's see. I should know this probably since they're two pretty big cards.

[01:08:17]>> Aren't they tier one cards for you?

[01:08:20]>> They are. They're, you know, I've been going through a big old consolidation deal. These two are like I consider them part of my nest egg. I would trade one to get one of the big boys that I need.

[01:08:30]Uh it is an 8.5 and a PSA 6, which I loved.

[01:08:35]>> Nice.

[01:08:35]>> Yeah. Guess Fanatics has a market value on the PSA 6 of 17,000. And I'm like, "Oh, [laughter] I'm upside down on that one."

[01:08:44]>> I think they missed a zero or two on that one.

[01:08:45]>> I think they missed a one is what they [laughter] missed. Exactly. So, uh, yeah. But, uh, anyway, so >> that's awesome.

[01:08:53]>> Thanks for joining, Andy. I'll get you again, man, and keep me posted. And if you ever have any announcements or anything you want to do, you know, my platform is always at your service, man.

[01:09:01]You've always been a awesome friend of the channel. So, we'll we'll try to do it again, maybe even before the national, which I will see you at the national, obviously.

[01:09:07]>> Yeah. I can't wait. Appreciate you as always, man. Definitely a friend of the hobby that I can't do nothing but recommend to everybody out there. For sure.

[01:09:14]>> Cool. Appreciate it. Thanks for joining, guys. Thank you for watching. Uh I truly appreciate it. Keep collecting. Stay positive in the hobby and peace.

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