Explaining ORTHODOXY to Lifelong Catholic - Fr Stephen De Young, Alex Sorin

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]Have the last 60 years of Popes brought unity or disunity to the Catholic faithful at a practical level?

[00:00:10]Last 60 years has been a disaster.

[00:00:13]Exactly. No disorder. Yes.

[00:00:15]>> Right. On a practical level. 1965 The decisions of the Popes have brought disunity to the faithful.

[00:00:23]>> Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

[00:00:25]>> Okay. So, just having a Pope doesn't guarantee there's going to be unity and everybody's going to be on the same page, right?

[00:00:32]>> [laughter] >> Jim, what's on your mind, Jim? Thanks for calling in.

[00:00:36]Yes, thank you. Um I just got on.

[00:00:41]Just listen for last 5 or 10 minutes.

[00:00:44]Uh-huh. But pardon my uh ignorance.

[00:00:48]>> [snorts] >> Sure. Um well, I I suppose I should give my background.

[00:00:55]Uh lawyer, semi-retired, and a historian.

[00:01:01]Catholic, pre-Vatican, pre-Vatican, too.

[00:01:04]I didn't know that was an option, but thank you for calling in, counselor. I too am an attorney.

[00:01:09]Oh, that's your bad luck and my bad luck.

[00:01:12]>> [laughter] >> Thanks.

[00:01:14]>> If you If you always say if you really hate someone, detest someone, tell them to study him or study law.

[00:01:23]>> [laughter] >> And that's a sin in in itself. Yeah.

[00:01:27]Anyway, I look I I'm not a theologian.

[00:01:31]I'm not a biblical scholar by any stretch of the imagination. I'm from Sydney, Australia.

[00:01:38]And as I said, I just came across your I think very interesting and I want to be enlightened in your your theology. I don't want to argue theology. I'd like to the conversation to take from a historical perspective.

[00:01:58]Uh >> [clears throat] >> and challenge you from history. Now, I see Father Stephen De Young. Now, are you a Again, I'm just asking questions. Are Orthodox or what is meant by >> are we are Orthodox.

[00:02:13]>> Orthodox priest, yes. All right. In Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, Ethiopian Yeah, I'm in the Romanian jurisdiction. All right.

[00:02:24]Yeah, for me it was like when I the the history that I did study, it's the church of the first 1,000 years was very synodal. And yeah, all of the paid the Bishop of Rome was very important, but all the patriarchs were very important.

[00:02:39]And I see the structure of a pentarchy, not the kind of, you know, monarchical structure where we see it's just like one man at the top of the church. Through the second thousand years, I just see the Western Church just has reform after reform after reform. You have the Gregorian reforms, the and then you have the Protestant Reformation, and then you have the Tridentine reforms. Vatican I was another form type of reform with the ultramontane church and that party kind of taking over. And then Vatican II again was another ecclesial renovation. So, I just see reform >> [laughter] >> another reform.

[00:03:17]So, in the Orthodox Church, it's just it's the same thing as the church of the first thousand years. Well, well, if you say Orthodox, uh correct me historically. Terms 1054, does that ring a bell?

[00:03:33]The Indeed. first schism.

[00:03:35]So, if Well, not the first one, but a big one.

[00:03:38]>> Well, well, there's all these uh you know, church fathers. I'm not going into this.

[00:03:44]Augustine and cetera and cetera. That's the old theology, the City of God and Thomas Aquinas and various church fathers, which we acknowledge or some of us don't acknowledge. Again, I'm an ignoramus as it comes as it comes to theology or biblical studies. So, I'm not attacking or or not That's a wrong word to attack. I mean, I'd love to be enlightened.

[00:04:12]That's >> Yeah, I just I just wanted the church of the first 1,000 years was the So, so I look at it if I can use an analogy, Sure. the trunk of the church is Catholicism.

[00:04:27]And if I can simply say, and this is a Protestant Oxford University book, the history of all the Popes ab initio to date, 270 whatever, anti-Popes, Popes, and so forth. We we have a Pope.

[00:04:52]No, you have a Archbishop with the Romanian, Serbian, Greek, etc. You do >> Pope of Alexandria is referred to as a Pope. Oh, you what? Yeah, I'm not going to that. What I'm getting at, all all the other churches, whatever, Protestant, we can go right up to 2026, is branches of the trunk.

[00:05:18]And the trunk, talking in history, too.

[00:05:21]Not theology. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. Yeah, I know. Theology.

[00:05:26]And it's written in Oxford University the the dick theology.

[00:05:30]Christ. There you are. Theology.

[00:05:34]No, no, no. No, I'm telling you historically. Historically.

[00:05:37]Our Lord Jesus Christ History, man.

[00:05:40]Right. Our Lord Jesus Christ in person appointed the first Bishop of the church. The very first one.

[00:05:48]Right? And and who was it and in what city?

[00:05:55]What What What What are you trying to say? I'm I'm >> you a question.

[00:06:00]All right. What city?

[00:06:02]>> know, like Our Lord Jesus Christ after the resurrection Yeah. Right.

[00:06:08]>> And you can verify this with any Roman Catholic book of church history.

[00:06:12]He appointed What do you mean?

[00:06:15]>> the very first Bishop ever appointed to the church. That was his brother, St. James in the city of Jerusalem. That's right. All right. Well, yes.

[00:06:23]>> Right.

[00:06:23]So, the place where the church grew from is the trunk, right?

[00:06:29]So, the church of Jerusalem is the trunk.

[00:06:32]Jerusalem [laughter] is the trunk.

[00:06:35]We agree. We're in unison.

[00:06:37]So, the patriarch, the Bishop of Jerusalem, >> [laughter] >> the 187th successor of St. James, is an Orthodox patriarch. Well, that's Where do you get that claim? W >> I You just agreed to it.

[00:06:52]>> Where's your patriarch of Jerusalem?

[00:06:54]See, you're talking about the death of Jesus and his resurrection after the Easter. And you got the different calendar, 14 days behind. But I'm not going to history. I'm all Yeah, this is the initial church. And they roam Led by St. James in Jerusalem.

[00:07:10]Well, it doesn't mention Orthodoxy.

[00:07:13]>> And they go out Yes, true. Ethiopia, Levant, they go to Greece and Rome.

[00:07:22]They go to Alexandria, they go to Rome.

[00:07:25]And [clears throat] they establish churches.

[00:07:27]>> [laughter] >> And all of those branches, and this big branch that is Rome, this is big branch that is Rome, and a big branch that is Antioch, and Jerusalem, And all got crucified.

[00:07:40]>> Jerusalem is the root.

[00:07:42]Was Christ crucified at Rome or in Rome?

[00:07:44]What does that prove about Orthodoxy?

[00:07:47]That's my question. I'm saying Rome is a branch.

[00:07:51]Antioch is a branch. The trunk is in Jerusalem.

[00:07:54]>> Alexandria is a branch.

[00:07:56]>> [laughter] >> Right? And in 1054, Rome left all the others. Oh, well, I don't know about that. Constantine did not leave Rome.

[00:08:09]Constantine was in 325, man. No, no, no.

[00:08:12]I'm talking about No, I know that. Yeah.

[00:08:16]That's right.

[00:08:17]I'm talking about I'm talk I beg your pardon. I'm talking about 1054.

[00:08:23]Yes. Yeah, also Rome left all the others.

[00:08:26]All the others remained in communion with each other, and Rome left that communion. With each other? No, it was unison church. There was no schism up to 1054. Schism.

[00:08:39]And then Rome left.

[00:08:42]Rome broke communion with all the other ones.

[00:08:46]Uh Is it 1055?

[00:08:51]In 1055, was Alexandria in communion with Rome?

[00:08:56]Yes, it was.

[00:08:57]>> No, it wasn't. Yes, it was. Not anymore.

[00:09:00]No.

[00:09:01]No.

[00:09:04]I said 1055.

[00:09:06]Well, that's after the schism, as I understand.

[00:09:09]>> Right. Was Alexandria in communion with Rome? No, no, but Was it in communion with Jerusalem? Yes. Was it in communion with Constantinople? Yes. Was it in communion with Antioch? That is not But where was the church found? Where did first Jerusalem >> Jerusalem. Just listen. What about What about Peter?

[00:09:28]The Apostle Peter being crucified in Rome.

[00:09:32]Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't that Peter was martyred in Rome. Doesn't that ring a bell? The the martyr upside down and being crucified.

[00:09:40]>> St. Peter also Where were all the Where were all the first Christians being slaughtered Jerusalem, Antioch, Yeah.

[00:09:50]No, no, no.

[00:09:51]They were killed everywhere. That's Roman Empire. Eastern and Western Roman Empire.

[00:09:57]That's not the city of Rome. No, well Eastern and it's all all roads lead to Rome, not Constantinople.

[00:10:07]That's amazing.

[00:10:08]>> the point. It's Eastern and Western Roman Empire.

[00:10:11]>> what Wait, no, no, no. What do roads have to do with No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I You're being very technical and and and literal by saying roads. 1055 >> no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 1055 Who invented roads?

[00:10:31]1055 Constantinople 1055 In 1055, all of those ancient churches were in communion with each other. None of them were in communion with Rome. Meaning Rome left that communion. I like this dialogue. I Are you going to tell me that the Beatles left Pete Best? Is that what you're going to tell me? Father Stephen Beatles left Pete Best? I don't agree. I don't agree. It doesn't work with a lawyer. You know, Alex could probably vouch for me. Mate, that argument, please. I think Father Stephen is the most powerful on this panel. Now, can I ask you of course he is yeah in terms of theology and biblical studies most certainly. I I I concede your honor. Also The question to you is Father Father Stephen if I can say uh the the I came across Could you Also he has the best beard.

[00:11:25]Yeah, exactly.

[00:11:27]I I concur your honor.

[00:11:29]>> [laughter] >> He is the best I I wish I had one like that.

[00:11:34]Well, I presume you're being an American. Now, you're being an Orthodox.

[00:11:40]No, I'm talking about uh Father Stephen.

[00:11:42]Uh The way how your your journey into uh I assume I presume. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Into Orthodoxy or more specific Unitarianism.

[00:11:56]Cuz I'm an ignoramus as it comes to Unitarianism, which I understand it's very vague, very pedestrian. It is There's no Trinity. No, I I debated uh a few hours ago I I don't want to argue cuz I don't know anything about it. You know, I I'm not a theologian. Please, please, please. I plead.

[00:12:17]I'm kindergarten in terms of theology.

[00:12:22]How do I say? I'm not going to go If you could elaborate, explain to me the the ignoramus that I am, please. I wish I could.

[00:12:30]>> I I want to learn. I want to learn.

[00:12:32]I wish I could, but every Unitarian has a different position.

[00:12:35]>> a Unitarian. We're not Unitarian.

[00:12:38]Yeah. You Oh, you're Oh, right. Oh, I didn't know that. I I believe in the Trinity. Yeah. Oh, good. Thank the Lord.

[00:12:46]>> Yeah.

[00:12:47]He was debating someone who doesn't.

[00:12:50]Yeah. He was. So, it's good. All right.

[00:12:53]Ah, Father Stephen said it. Now it's official.

[00:12:56]>> [laughter] >> I know there's a lot of Americans in particularly sort of migrating from various Protestant churches, including Catholicism, into Orthodoxy. And I know that Please correct me. The Not the problem. That's the wrong word again I'm using.

[00:13:14]totally different uh expressions or definitions.

[00:13:19]Uh It is a [clears throat] national church.

[00:13:25]Orthodoxy is split up. They haven't got a pope.

[00:13:28]They've got various archbishops of various countries and regions. There's a Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox and cetera et cetera.

[00:13:37]Uh What do they call it?

[00:13:39]Well, archbishop if I >> Yeah, patriarchs, archbishops.

[00:13:42]>> patriarchs, yes, yes. Well, which is as many How about calling them Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:48]That's what I'm getting at. So, there's no unity in in this in in that sort of argument. Well, they're all in communion with each other. Yeah, well, this is the problem. In every church, as you know, and you and we've got at least one confessed lawyer, which is Alex. Yeah.

[00:14:04]And I should say and I should say this is why I'm I said ab initio that I am a pre-Vatican II.

[00:14:13]The beauty about my beautiful Catholic Church is Latin.

[00:14:17]Do you know why Latin?

[00:14:19]I'll tell you.

[00:14:21]It is a dead language.

[00:14:24]And we know that Bible has been translated from Hebrew to Greek and from Greek into Latin et cetera et cetera et cetera. And the beauty about Latin as I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:14:37]It is a dead language. A dead language does not extrapolate.

[00:14:43]For I'll give you an example.

[00:14:45]Uh there's a famous uh English case when I did law, criminal law. And there was a After the war, there were two criminals who were robbing a a warehouse 48 49 just after the war. And one of them One had a gun.

[00:15:00]And they were trapped in a building. And just to cut the long story short coppers or bobbies, English bobbies, cornered them. And they were right on top of the roof. Not midnight. Just imagine all those chimneys, you know, uh a London fog et cetera. And they were hiding and they they couldn't escape, of course. And and one of the guys said "Hey, Johnny, let him have it." And the guy with the gun fired and he killed the bobby.

[00:15:28]So, both of them were up for uh you know, murder of a police officer.

[00:15:35]So, one of the one of the people I It's a famous case. I don't got it here.

[00:15:39]Everybody knows about it. You can Google it.

[00:15:42]One of the thing is when I said "Let him have it." I meant "Let him have the gun."

[00:15:48]And the beauty, getting back to theology in Catholicism, having a pope all the disputes about the language. For example, let's talk about gay.

[00:15:59]40 years ago, there were people "Let's be gay, boys." What does gay mean today?

[00:16:02]If they say "I'm gay." Whoa.

[00:16:05]Are you transitioning? Maybe.

[00:16:10]See, etymology of the word changes. And the beauty about Catholicism and I don't agree with Pope Francis or the current pope as I said, but I'm still a loyal Catholic. And I will >> What about Leo? What about Pope Leo the 14th?

[00:16:26]>> I do not. You know, there's He's sort of liberation theology. He's He's taking your Latin mass away from you. This is true. Exactly. I agree with This is true. Yes. And and and and you know, Novus Ordo, it is bogus ordo. But again, that's I still get I'll try to go to Latin mass.

[00:16:46]But that's I agree. I concur. I I'm not against that. And this is the the issue.

[00:16:51]There's been a lot of antipopes. I'm not saying they're all saints. Only when they speak in cathedra.

[00:16:59]As we all know what that is.

[00:17:01]But the last pope was about a century ago when he said in cathedra that Virgin Mary has assumed bodily and soul into heaven. It's a theological doctrine.

[00:17:14]And again, I'm not going there.

[00:17:17]And [clears throat] and and I don't want to This is It's 7:00 here in Sydney, Australia. I just, you know, Friday evening. And I'm having my chardonnay.

[00:17:28]And enjoying your uh conversation. I hope I haven't taken over the stream. But I'd like you to enlighten me. I'm not here to you know, uh I like to conduct a sort of a Socratic civil argument or discussion. These days people can't discuss anymore. They you know, they you know, they're so radical left or right or whatever in theology or That is true. philosophy, they just, you know, they just want to get a knife or a gun and shoot at you.

[00:18:00]Which is so sad. [clears throat] But anyway.

[00:18:02]Yeah. And I I and I Again, getting back to the issue. The beauty about the Catholicism or pre-Vatican II is is is that the ultimate definition in terms of theology, in terms of doctrine, is after various studies and bishops and arguments within the church. And this is the problem with Orthodoxy because you've got various patriarchs totally independent. You always have arguments within the church, within the family, within a society, within the city, whatever you want to call it.

[00:18:37]And no there's no finite definition to settle an argument.

[00:18:44]So, each each Orthodoxy, that's the weakness as I see it.

[00:18:52]Uh >> [clears throat] >> in terms of theology. Now, I I hit the mark in terms of argument.

[00:18:58]Oh, the weakness is in or or all Protestantism. Protestants since Martin Luther still call themselves Protestant.

[00:19:07]They're protesting about what? About effing time to STOP PROTESTING. NAME YOURSELF, for crying out loud. Six 500 really 600 years after the event, there's about 300 or 30,000 denominations. And this is the problem.

[00:19:24]Each Each in a particularly in America.

[00:19:26]It's a big problem.

[00:19:27]>> you go Any any pastor, so-called pastor, says "Oh, look Oh, I don't agree Again, going back to the text, remember the the the the argument I said about the two robbers, let him have it." The other argument was "Let him have it. You shot the guy." No, I meant "Let him have the gun." [clears throat] Ambiguity in interpreting the Bible. And everybody says, you know, "Read the Bible and you got a hotline.

[00:19:53]Hello Jesus, how are you?

[00:19:55]I I read the Bible. I'm talking to you.

[00:19:57]I don't need the pope or the bishops or anybody. That's the problem.

[00:20:01]So, do you understand where I'm coming from?

[00:20:04]>> Yeah, agree agreed about Protestants.

[00:20:06]>> Oh, shut up. I'll shut up or I'll blow my head. Yeah, well agreed about Protestantism, but I think you're speaking on a theoretical level and I want to speak on a practical level. Go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:20:16]>> Right. All right.

[00:20:17]>> On a practical level have the last I don't even have to do 100.

[00:20:25]Have the Have the last uh 60 years of Popes brought unity >> just want to make a comment about that person made a comment you eat they right. It is Friday evening. I'm I'm relaxing. So, yes, I I apologize for my rant.

[00:20:42]>> Oh, sorry. But you're good.

[00:20:44]Is right? Have the last 60 years of Popes brought unity or disunity to the Catholic faithful at a practical level?

[00:20:55]Last 60 years has been a disaster.

[00:20:58]Exactly.

[00:20:59]>> That's Novus Ordo. Yes.

[00:21:00]>> Right. On a practical level >> 1965 >> the decisions of the Popes have brought disunity Ah. to the faithful.

[00:21:08]>> Yes. Yes, absolutely.

[00:21:10]>> Okay. So, just having a Pope doesn't guarantee there's going to be unity and everybody's going to be on the same page.

[00:21:17]>> [laughter] >> Yeah. No. Right. Now, well now hold on.

[00:21:20]Now, hold on. Yeah, go ahead. Yes, sorry. On a practical level okay?

[00:21:27]I celebrate the liturgy in an Antiochian church, right? Antioch in Syria.

[00:21:33]The patriarch of Antioch is in Damascus.

[00:21:36]Mhm. Alex goes to a Romanian Orthodox church, patriarch in Romania.

[00:21:41]Bucharest. Bucharest. That's right.

[00:21:44]>> [laughter] >> Right?

[00:21:46]We celebrate the same liturgy Mhm.

[00:21:50]every week. Same scripture readings.

[00:21:53]Absolutely.

[00:21:53]>> Same hymns. Mhm.

[00:21:56]Right? [laughter] Right now, the So, on a practical level of the faithful who are just going to church Mhm.

[00:22:06]I would submit to you that we have a lot more unity on that practical level than Roman Catholicism does at the parish level.

[00:22:16]As post post Vatican II >> Post Vatican II. Right. Absolutely agree. I would say yes.

[00:22:22]>> Yeah, so that's So, to me it's the the structure doesn't guarantee. I think what helps in our case is that for someone to make a major change like to the liturgy like comparable to the Novus Ordo Mhm.

[00:22:36]you would have to get all of the patriarchs to agree.

[00:22:41]Mhm.

[00:22:43]Cuz if one went off and did it on his own, he would be schismatic. Schismatic, yeah.

[00:22:48]>> Right. He put himself outside the church. Right? So, you'd have to get everybody to agree.

[00:22:53]And it's really hard to get [laughter] a big group of people from different countries, different backgrounds, different situations to get them to all agree on something like that. Yes.

[00:23:04]>> Whereas, if you can get into the Vatican, you've got all the levers there to start pulling to start making unilateral changes, right? Start cutting back on the Latin Mass, to start doing all those things.

[00:23:18]You just need one person to get in as Pope who has an agenda.

[00:23:22]Right? And they can create a lot of chaos. This is true. For the faith.

[00:23:27]>> is We had many antipopes, you know, very corrupt. But this is not the point. At the point being is is is Catholics and this is the belief that the Holy Spirit unites the church being the one Roman Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. And it is only when you uh challenging the doctrine of the Catholic And that's what's so hard modern Catholics, a lot of them, and the synodal, as you know. And what does that mean? It's I still don't know exactly.

[00:24:06]>> Yeah, I don't think they know. I don't think anybody knows what it's going to turn out to >> Well, well, this is if I can put it as I see it as a humble humble you know, nostalgic Catholic looking at the past and and and yearning for my Latin Mass and the beauty about Latin, 2,000 years of tradition. You know why I love Latin?

[00:24:30]Because Satan hates Latin.

[00:24:34]Just one reason. Forget about theology.

[00:24:37]I love Latin and I don't speak Latin. I I I was taught Latin and Greek in in my high school by Christian brothers here in Sydney. Uh but anyway, that's gone many years ago.

[00:24:52]And what I'm trying to say you're absolutely correct.

[00:24:56]And this is the divergence with the Catholic Church and it's various so-called modernists. You know what G.K.

[00:25:03]Chesterton said said? He's a great English convert into He's a wonderful writer, too. He's a very >> Yeah. Look, I've got most of his books.

[00:25:13]I've got a huge library.

[00:25:20]into various books.

[00:25:23]Nice.

[00:25:24]Anyway, uh I'm [laughter] a lawyer and theologian and so forth.

[00:25:29]a few times.

[00:25:31]But anyway, what I getting back to the issue of of of Catholicism uh it was a cardinal mistake what should I John the 23rd did in 19 '62 to '65 with the thing. That's my uh a lot of a lot of Catholics uh there's a schism within the Catholic Church. I hope it doesn't doesn't split. That's my hope. I I don't I don't I don't know the sword. You know what I say to my priest Novus Ordo order?

[00:26:06]You know, when I want entertainment like, you know, Protestant entertainment, Kumbaya my lord and guitars and trumpets and drums.

[00:26:15]You say that's entertainment. That's Protestantism.

[00:26:19]And when I really want to go and and experience experience the transcendental, I go to traditional Latin Mass.

[00:26:29]Unfortunately.

[00:26:31]>> Unfortunately. My chat thinks that you should be the next Pope.

[00:26:35]Oh, I'm too bloody old. I'm a grandfather. I've got four kids. Oh, congratulations.

[00:26:42]No worries.

[00:26:44]I'm better than Leo. I like that comment.

[00:26:48]>> [laughter] >> Vote for Uh look, I I I'm dominated typical lawyer I am. I mean, you know, Friday evening here in Sydney I'm sipping on my Chardonnay, finishing bloody work and here I am trying to, you Right.

[00:27:11]I apologize. Profusely apologize. The binders are case files, Albert.

[00:27:17]And what?

[00:27:17]>> with Uh in the chat they said uh We all want to know, Jim, what's in the binders? I'm just guessing it's probably a bunch of transcripts and exhibits and filings.

[00:27:30]What do you want to know?

[00:27:32]All right.

[00:27:36]>> [clears throat] [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:27:42]Case files. Affidavits, statements of claim, defense typical lawyer Sorry.

[00:27:50]>> [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:27:53]>> All right. All right. Look, once again, I will follow you. I think the same.

[00:28:00]>> And I hope you can, you know, I should polish up on my theology. Uh I'm total ignorant when it comes to theology.

[00:28:09]And uh My chat wants you to become Orthodox.

[00:28:12]They said They said we want you to be Orthodox. There you are. There you are.

[00:28:16]>> I like [clears throat] this guy so much.

[00:28:18]I wish he becomes Orthodox. This man is awesome.

[00:28:22]Jim, please be a regular guest.

[00:28:24]All right. Much much much appreciated.

[00:28:27]Again, I I I apologize. Aspiring Orthodox lawyer apologist. And >> [laughter] >> Uh look, I had a bit of too much of that. All right, so. You know, Father Stephen has published a a book about Holy Orthodoxy. It's called Religion of the Apostles. It's a I think a a great digging into Second Temple Judaism and the connections between the Second Temple religion and Orthodox Christianity today. There's an interesting book I'm reading at the moment. Just hold on.

[00:29:02]We're talking about it. This is a current book.

[00:29:07]Where the Where is it? I don't know if you've got it.

[00:29:10]The hyphenated heresy? Judeo-Christian Yeah. Joel Webb and Yeah. American guy.

[00:29:18]Yeah, we know Joel Webb and Oh, you do?

[00:29:21]Oh, do you? I I haven't got time to read. I'm too busy working. But anyway, once again, thank you very much and enjoy your evening or my evening, your morning, I suppose. Yeah. Really morning.

[00:29:35]Thank you. Thank Really morning. Yeah.

[00:29:38]All right. All right, thanks for calling in, Jim.

[00:29:41]Wow, what a way to end the stream.