Otterly Adorable Pup Update!

Añadido: 2026-05-27

[00:00:07]Hey everyone, welcome back to Cincinnati Zoo Tales. I'm Jenna. And I'm Mark.

[00:00:10]Thanks to everyone out there for tuning in to another episode of Cincinnati Zoo Tales. We're really excited to hear some updates today about Siamang Point. And this is a habitat at the zoo that's still very new. I'm sure there might even be visitors listening to this episode that haven't even been to Siamang Point yet. We'd encourage you to come check it out. But we've done an episode on in the past where you're excited today to talk about all the new updates, everything going on. We're being joined by Wendy Rice and Carly River, who if you're long-time listeners to the show, you've heard them on the podcast before. But both you ladies, thanks so much for taking the time to join us today and chat. Thank you.

[00:00:41]Thanks for having us back.

[00:00:43]Yeah, a lot of people probably know Wendy was uh she's an ex-Africa keeper.

[00:00:47]She used to work in Africa.

[00:00:49]>> We're not bitter at all though.

[00:00:49]>> Not at all.

[00:00:50]>> [laughter] >> We talked to her about that last time we talked to her. And I would like to know, what do you think is the number one like difference in the type of care you do in Siamang Point versus Africa? Ooh.

[00:01:06]The type of care?

[00:01:07]>> Yeah, or just something that feels completely like opposite or different from the departments. I think that a lot of our African species were maybe a little bit more independent in the sense that like they can go big stretches of the day without a keeper needing to check in or reset enrichment or provide like entertainment for them. But our animals at Siamang Point are a little more high-maintenance in the sense that they're like highly trainable, highly enrichable, but also means that like they need a lot to keep them like functioning throughout the day. So we do a lot of enrichment resets. We do a lot of hands-on training with them. That sounds perfect for you. I know. I feel like all your favorite things. Yeah. We're just like very helicopter parenting with them and like we're in their business a lot. So yeah, there's they're we're in each other's worlds more than like I would say the animals in Africa who get breaks from their keeper staff for big [laughter] chunks of time. I mean, they're just different types of animals, right? Here's probably have high metabolisms and they aren't grazing on grass all day like some of ours or alfalfa or whatever. But you're also like so condensed. Like we're really spread out like the Africa department is, but you guys are close and I feel like that would be kind of nice in a lot of ways, but I'm sure you're like very busy. Yeah. Um and Carly, what's like one of your favorite things that you've learned in Siang Point over the last year?

[00:02:22]One of my favorite thing?

[00:02:24]>> Or like a new a new thing as a keeper you've done.

[00:02:27]>> Um well, when I worked in like the primate areas, um we didn't do like keeper chats or like as much guests like interaction cuz of the wild encounters team like mainly did all that. So, we do a lot of like guest interaction and we also have a lot more opportunities like with the invisinet. We can actually like when the siamangs are on the island, you can't go out there and like really do much. Um so, like being able to go out and do that and like people seeing a lot more of that stuff that we do like behind the scenes out front. Oh, yeah.

[00:02:50]That's been really fun. I love that and I love that you like doing that because we've talked about it before. Like some keepers want nothing to do with the public and but it's really important [laughter] these days and it's like kind of an expectation and and we hope that keepers are more willing and and you know, want to share all of the information and training they're doing with their animals.

[00:03:08]>> Right. Well, we exist because our guests are here. They're paying the paycheck.

[00:03:12]They're feeding the animals. So, yeah, we want obviously to be an amazing experience for them and educational and everything. And I love that you mentioned how like the design of the habitat allows for that, right? Cuz like that's something I hear from guests all the time when they go to Siang Point is just how cool and how close they can get to the siamangs. You know, they have the overhead walkway that the siamangs will cross through which is I know a big hit for visitors as well. So, it's cool that you guys are in a habitat that allows for that as well. I think that that's funny that they've shared videos of your gibbons crossing over that and I don't know why it weirds me out. I don't know why >> [laughter] >> and I feel like they're like people either No, it's the way they walk and weirds me out. Like which is so weird. like not creeped out by bugs or anything, but I'm just like that is weird. And people like love it.

[00:03:59]Or maybe most people love it. I don't know why. It just weirds me out how they're like Sebastian has mastered like the bipedal walk.

[00:04:06]>> Maybe that's what's freaky. It's very like human like. Yes. Yes. It's very like you're seeing something you shouldn't be seeing. You're like, "Whoa." And then it just kind of shuffles. Yeah, but they have to like go [laughter] scoot yourself along. It's a whole different Two different methods, but they both look awkward.

[00:04:20]>> are just odd cuz their arms are so long.

[00:04:23]They're dragging on the ground. I walk and it's like something looks weird here. Like the Slender Man OR SOMETHING.

[00:04:27]>> [laughter] >> THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT IT THAT MY BRAIN IS LIKE, "I don't know about that."

[00:04:32]>> going to make an impression one way or the other. Yes. And then I was I came over to have lunch with Wendy a couple weeks ago and I saw that there was like a little It's like a puzzle feeder for I won't name it, but like basically a little ball with a hole in it and it was outside of the Invisitnet. So like, you know, there was the fence for the public and then like this planted area and it was in that area and I was like that's not good. That's not right. You know, and I had it took my brain a second to be like, "No, that's okay."

[00:04:58]But one of them was like sitting there just picking things out of it. It was like a double puzzle feeder cuz they had to go through the net to get the food.

[00:05:05]But they were so close to the public and it was just like the coolest interaction or like opportunity. Yeah, glad you enjoyed it.

[00:05:12]Yeah. It adds another layer of challenge for them to have to reach through the mesh to do the puzzle. And it also yeah, forces them to be right up there. Like this is the closest view you're going to get of this animal and it's a win-win for guests and and animals. Yeah. Yeah, super cool.

[00:05:27]Well, cool. So last time we talked to you guys, I think the last episode we we talked to you guys was about Asian small-clawed otters and you had babies at the time. And now there are more babies.

[00:05:38]>> [laughter] >> And before we get into the new babies, can you guys just give like a little Asian small-clawed otters and an update on the first litter. Sure. You want to do that or what? Um you said an update on like the first litter and what? Yeah. Um okay, so we have six grown otters right now and we have the three new pups. Um so the six grown adult otters are Meentee and Flounder, the parents. They have the four boys, Scuttle, Ripple, Puddles, and Splash. Um and then Ripple's like the biggest right now.

[00:06:09]He's about the same size as Flounder, give or take. Then Scuttle's the smallest and he's about the same size as Meentee. So Flounder's around like 4 kg.

[00:06:16]>> Okay. Give or take.

[00:06:18]Meentee when she's not pregnant is around 3 kg. [laughter] So Scuttle's there's like a big size difference really >> talking like 6 to 9 lb.

[00:06:27]>> Actually, they're very small.

[00:06:28]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're the smallest otter species and they're so cute. So adorable and the yeah, the most fun about this round of having pups is like now we're doing it with older siblings in the mix, which makes everything look completely different this time. Yeah.

[00:06:43]Yeah. And how old are the boys now, the first litter? They're going to be 1 year old on Saturday, May 9th.

[00:06:47]>> Yeah. Oh, they're having a birthday party. Yeah. Oh, fun. I don't know. This might come out after the birthday party, but [laughter] happy birthdays to the boys.

[00:06:54]>> Yeah, if this comes out afterwards, take a peek at the zoo's social media. I'm sure we'll have something posted for the for the birthday.

[00:06:59]>> have a theme planned for them or like any special enrichment?

[00:07:02]>> It's kind of like water themed. So Vee made like a banner that says like I think it says like splish splash, it's an otter birthday bash. Oh, nice.

[00:07:11]>> [laughter] >> And then commissary's making [clears throat] them a birthday cake.

[00:07:13]>> Cool. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm sure it's got to be chaotic. How has it been with the older siblings meshing with these new pups? Like It's are they allowed to have access to the new babies, [laughter] are they being friendly, are they playing nice, or are they being older brothers and roughhousing a little bit?

[00:07:30]They're doing overall really well. And for Asian small clawed otters, it's actually really important for older siblings to help take care of their younger siblings. Um we think that that has a lot to do with how they develop their like their paternal instincts and skills. So, they actually are in there with mom and dad and helping out and we even learned that like poor Moooti, if if her first set of kiddos, if any of them had been female, so if Moooti had a daughter right now before this next litter of pups came along, apparently that daughter would lactate and help her nurse babies. Like that's how involved the siblings are in the parental care.

[00:08:04]So, unfortunately for Moooti, we've got four boys from round one and they are acting like four boys. They're They're doing the best they can, but it's been so fascinating to see their different roles and different personalities because literally all four of them are doing completely different things and it's hysterical to watch.

[00:08:20]>> Can you tell us about some of those things? Yeah, so um Splash is our little He's like I don't know if he's been assigned in his mind, if Moooti told him, I don't know, but he is all about making sure that the nest has enough material. So, every chance he gets, no matter where if he goes into moat stall, if he goes out into the habitat, if he finds any kind of browse or bedding material, he is bringing it back to that box.

[00:08:43]>> Oh, yes, I recently saw the video with that Splash does. [laughter] He's like fighting with that branch to get it through the door and like yes, so he is like obsessed with the nesting material and he's crushing it. He's doing a really good job with that.

[00:08:55]Yeah. She's like >> [laughter] >> She's probably like, I just need a break. Like go go get some bedding. Go get some bedding.

[00:09:01]>> [laughter] >> Go find me more. Yeah. Stay busy.

[00:09:04]And then we have Um which boy do you want to talk about? Uh we have Next.

[00:09:10]>> the next most helpful is Puddles. Um he's the one with the pink tip nose. Um he's pretty helpful. He doesn't like really do anything to go against Moooti, so I think that's like the helpful part.

[00:09:21]>> [laughter] >> Usually they're like moving them, he is like on cue with like where they're going and doing the right thing. He doesn't ever >> of hurting them basically. He He'll like carry them, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um or he's like guarding the nest box, yep. Um he doesn't really do anything that goes against the grain, I guess. You you >> [laughter] >> you're doing the right thing that needs to be happening.

[00:09:39]>> to be paying attention to Moonty's cues and following them. So, if she starts moving them in one direction, he's like, "Oh, okay." and he'll grab the second pup and follow her.

[00:09:48]Um and yeah, he's he's babysitting in the box. Like a lot of times when Moonty is outside, Puddles might be the one that's still inside making sure that the pups are not alone. He's showing really good instincts and he's a very chill otter. He doesn't get worked up. Yeah, he's like a really he's doing really really good. And then on the opposite end of that spectrum, >> [laughter] >> we've got Ripple who is just like chaos all the time. He's literally like anytime Moonty is moving the boys from A to B, he's moved them back from B to A.

[00:10:16]Like literally actively working against her in real time. I think he thinks [laughter] it's helpful. I don't know what's going through his mind.

[00:10:23]He's like so close to getting it. He's like, "Oh, we're moving babies." and he'll just pick one up and start carrying it. And then recently, like just in the past week, he has decided that these pups are ready to swim. So, he's been grabbing them and dunking them and not always with the consent of the parents. Tried to take one out on habitat and we got the door shut just in the right amount of time.

[00:10:44]So, Ripple is kind of creating some some chaos.

[00:10:48]And he's very [clears throat] spirited about it. Like he he it is hard to like break him out of the like, "No, man, no one's doing that.

[00:10:54]We're not doing that right now." But he's got he's got the motivation and the fire. He's just misdirected in his efforts, I'd say.

[00:11:01]It sounds like a sitcom episode.

[00:11:03]>> [laughter] >> One and one otter are carrying babies one way, the other one's carrying them the other way.

[00:11:08]>> [laughter] >> And I guess the last but not least would be Scuttle.

[00:11:13]He's just I he's just here.

[00:11:17]>> [laughter] >> He is. He like I I don't we don't see him helping often or really trying to be involved. A lot of times if there's one otter outside, it's typically him just doing his own thing. Okay. Independent guy. He's I guess maybe he He he's like still baby.

[00:11:31]>> [laughter] >> Scuttle just worries about Scuttle. He's Yeah, he's not super aware of what the family unit is doing or whether he should be involved. He's like our weird little rogue independent boy. He's also we always say like the cutest one. He's like our Disney otter. He has just like He looks like Minty. Yes, he's small and tiny like Minty and has like just the most cute perfect little Disney otter face. Um, he's adorable. So, he's not causing any problems but he's not really helping out. So, you gave him a Disney >> [laughter] >> character name.

[00:11:59]>> I mean That's true. That's true.

[00:12:03]Aw, that's so fun. So, the boys are about to be one and they're being helpful and when were when was the last litter born? They were born on March 23rd.

[00:12:13]>> Okay, and it was kind of a surprise, right?

[00:12:15]>> It was. I mean, we at least So, Carly was actually the first to notice that Minty had gained weight. So, I'll let you talk about that.

[00:12:23]>> do um monthly weights and I don't know if I've ever told you this but like a few days prior I was like looking at her and I was like she looks kind of big but like not [clears throat] really thinking anything. I'm just like, oh, like we need to weigh them like soon. Um, so I put the scale in there and like I said earlier, she's normally around like three kegs and then the scale was like 3.4 and like instantly I was like, oh, no.

[00:12:43]>> [laughter] >> The last time, I think in our records like four days before she had the boys she was 3.4 and I was like yeah, like this we're going to have babies tomorrow. Like, oh, no. Um, and so then I texted Wendy and I was like, do you think it's worth like doing an ultrasound? And you're like, yeah, it couldn't hurt but like surely it's fine and Hopefully she's just chunky. Yeah, she's eating a lot of food right now and she's >> [laughter] >> living her best life or something. Dr. Jess came and you can you did the ultrasound with Dr. Jess. Yeah, so it was funny cuz Jess is like, I'm pretty sure we're not going to find anything.

[00:13:17]You get Minty up in the tube and she flips over and does her thing and we're looking and searching and both of us at the exact same moment we're like, oh, oh. What was that? What was that? And these babies were already developed enough that we already saw like heartbeat, rib cage, and multiple babies. And we were like, "Oh boy."

[00:13:33]She's pretty far along there.

[00:13:34]>> Yes.

[00:13:34]And their gestation is quick. It's 68 to 72 days. You don't have a lot of time anyway. So, we at least knew she was pregnant. And with her weight and with the ultrasound, we knew how far along she might be. So, we at least knew like I would say within like a 30-day window.

[00:13:48]Like, "Oh, we're going to have babies in the next month probably." When was this ultrasound? They were born that March 23rd? Oh, it's probably in February, I would guess.

[00:13:56]>> So, you knew like 6 weeks or so in advance then?

[00:13:59]>> almost a month then. Yeah, I think it was like a full month in advance, yeah.

[00:14:03]But for anyone wondering like, "Well, was this planned or did we know?" We we were not planning on this litter. Um in fact, we had given Moonty birth control implants like back after the first litter of boys because she did they did their thing, they had their babies, um and they were like, "Okay, that's that's plenty of of your genetics for now. Like, let's pump the brakes on the breeding." And the implants that we use for otters are super tiny like the size of a Tic Tac because it's a very small animal. You don't need a whole lot of hormones. Um the tricky thing is so otters are so like meticulous about their coats that we were trying to be mindful of that when we place this intradermal, meaning under the skin, um implant that would keep her from getting pregnant. And our vet staff were being very very conscious about that. So, we tried to use the smallest incision possible. We try not to shave any of the fur because it's almost like popping a hole in their insulation layer. So, you don't want to like shave a big old patch of fur or anything because literally like water's going to seep in and it just causes problems. Um and then the placement of it, we try to put it somewhere that that individual otter can't reach it easily.

[00:15:08]So, it goes interscapular between their their shoulder blades essentially. So, Moonty can't like swing her head around and kind of try to groom it out or anything. Um so, we put it there. We used literally only one stitch and a little bit of glue to close that incision site and then we did our best to keep an eye on it as she healed, but we think that somebody else took those out for took that implant out for her cuz they do they groom each other. They, you know, engage in allo grooming. So we suspect that somebody was like, "What's this? Ooh, that's weird. What is that?

[00:15:39]Foreign body. Don't worry, I'll get it out for you." And before we knew it, it was out and she was, you know, um able to reproduce again as we I mean it happened [laughter] it happens at Cincinnati of all places. So yeah. So this litter was not um planned, but the SSP when they heard about it cuz we let them know. We're like, "Oop, surprise.

[00:15:59]We got a pregnant otter." They said, "That's okay. Hopefully we get some girls this time because every single Asian small clawed otter that was born last year was male." That is wild.

[00:16:08]>> wild.

[00:16:09]So crazy. And we're like, "Oh, well, at least hopefully we can contribute in that sense." But nope. Surely there'll be a girl.

[00:16:16]>> Right. Three more boys. [gasps] >> What are the odds? Wild. It makes you think there's something going on there that we don't understand. Uh yeah, so that's that's where that's at. But you mentioned they they help take care of siblings and there aren't really other than probably just a larger crowd. Like there aren't any issues with having like another litter yes while the other boys are still here?

[00:16:39]Um our habitat size is fine. Like we're not worried about the habitat size or our behind the scenes space. I think it's mostly we're concerned about social fracturing with the group.

[00:16:49]And >> they typically do in the wild? Um in the wild they do like once once the the children the offspring start to reach like sexual maturity, it's very normal for the social group to kind of break up. And that's like nature's way of preventing inbreeding. Like we're related and if you all are going to go on and have children of your own, it probably shouldn't be in this group cuz we're all related. So naturally they all like kind of break off and go their separate ways, but obviously when that happens in in a zoo setting, they can't go anywhere. They can't get away from each other, so you start to see fighting. And that's usually an indicator to keepers like, "Okay, we have to start managing them separately and looking for a new home for this individual or that pair or whatever." Um so, yeah, the biggest issue moving forward is going to be the social fracturing and how long we can keep this size of a group of otters happy together. What age are they typically reproductively mature? Usually around 2 years.

[00:17:40]>> Okay, so you've got about a year to figure some of that out and >> Yeah. And the social fracturing doesn't always happen right away. Um the SSP told us like sometimes groups will make it 6 years before they see problems. I'm also hopeful that maybe with our like sex ratio of literally we're going to have 8.1 now, so >> [laughter] >> eight males, one female, maybe just with that dynamic alone that there's really only one female and since they're usually in charge, maybe she'll be able to keep everything in line.

[00:18:08]So, we'll just have to see. Do you have different plans for the birth control this time?

[00:18:13]Uh A different A different kind, I guess.

[00:18:15]>> Yeah, so we used MGA last time, but we're going to try Deslorelin this time, but it's still an implant. So, >> we are reaching out to other facilities and other veterinarians looking for maybe alternative locations. Like maybe interscapular is not the place to go.

[00:18:31]>> Mhm. Um we're thinking maybe if we can at least put it in a location that's easier for keepers to monitor, we might be at least become aware if it gets removed. Um but I don't know. Keep your fingers crossed for us.

[00:18:42]>> [laughter] >> Obviously, we have to figure it out. And for Nutmeg, the mom, >> Mhm.

[00:18:47]she had two two litters in what is that?

[00:18:49]Like 11 months or so? Is that too much for her or were you guys concerned about her at all or is that normal for otters?

[00:18:54]Totally normal.

[00:18:55]>> Totally normal. Okay.

[00:18:56]>> Yeah, they can have two litters in a year as we've as we've learned.

[00:18:59]>> [laughter] >> Yep. And I think in a lot of ways it's actually probably better for them to be back-to-back close because as we just discussed, if sexual maturity happens at 2 years of age and they're starting to leave the home and you want them to get that sibling experience before they go, it makes sense that those litters are closer together so that the yearling boys are like old enough that they can fend for themselves, but old enough to start paying attention and helping with babies. So, the timing is actually perfect for Otter World.

[00:19:24]Um just wasn't great for for what we were planning.

[00:19:26]>> [laughter] >> So, you mentioned the dunking them in water and helping them swim. And this still blows my mind that otters are born and they don't they can't go in the water. It's not safe for them. Can you tell us a little bit about that, like the process and how you know when it's safe or do the otters tell you everything about when the babies can start swimming? Are their eyes even open yet? Yes, their eyes open around like 40 days, give >> Okay. or take. Um so, I believe all three of them their eyes are open now.

[00:19:52]Um they're still like in the nest box a lot, but I like now they're coming out more and starting to put them in the water. So, we just start with like little plates or little pans. We have like a baby pool flipped upside down to try to like promote them to start doing it.

[00:20:05]Um and then as they keep getting older, um giving them like actual pools with like some more depth. And then I think the boys last year went out at like two months old, around two months old, give or take, and they were like ready for the big pool then. Yeah. So. And the parents will actually like pick them up and put them in the water, right? Like it's kind of scary.

[00:20:22]>> [laughter] >> Yeah. To the like to the human eye, it looks pretty intense and it's not something that I would do with my child, for example. [laughter] Just forcing them in and putting their little heads under and they're like, "This is water. Figure it out."

[00:20:35]>> them a swirly. Like >> [laughter] >> poor kids. Very much. Yeah. It's like very like baptism by by by fire, but water, [laughter] obviously. It's it's wild to watch, but we have to trust and like like they know what they're doing and this is how they get it done. So.

[00:20:49]And clearly it worked out with the first group, right? That gives you a little bit of confidence that they knew what they were doing. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:55]Have you guys decided on names yet?

[00:20:57]Ooh, this is fun. Five groups of names.

[00:21:00]Yeah. So, we >> Five groups.

[00:21:03]>> Yeah. So, we wanted to do something kind of fun. So, like the timing of these babies and the fact that we were right, I mean we just started zoo babies. Like the month of May is zoo babies.

[00:21:11]Um so in order to choose their names we wanted to solicit the help of the other animals in Siamang Point. So our team came together and came up with five sets of names and we're using the animals in Siamang Point to help us narrow it down.

[00:21:24]Um so the first set of names is another water theme so round two and we have Tug, Buoy, and Snorkel. So that's one set of possible names. Yeah. Um so Moonty's name is actually Tagalog so we wanted to do one set of names that's a nod to to her kind of like her name and her history. So the Tagalog boys names that we've chosen are Berto, Renzo, and Lando. Cute.

[00:21:47]>> Yep. Um kind of going off of the water theme last time we thought maybe an earth theme this time so we have Cliff, Jasper, and Pebble. Those are cute, too.

[00:21:57]>> [laughter] >> A little baby named Cliff.

[00:22:04]Cute, [laughter] right? I got a Twilight in my head though.

[00:22:08]Uh the next list of names, these were we didn't know what else to call them so they're kind of just like cool and trendy popular names right now. So like maybe kids that are coming to the zoo like that's my name. So we have Sheldon, Nico, and Cooper.

[00:22:21]Um and then our last group of names are our fishy names. Uh we have Mackerel, Guppy, and Shrimp.

[00:22:28]>> [laughter] >> That might be the winner for me.

[00:22:33]I can't get over Shrimp. Shrimp is my personal favorite of mine. They're all fun and cute in different ways and Carly made such a good point that like we were talking about names and like sometimes you pick a name and you're like I don't know, it doesn't feel right, but animals always seem to like grow into them, you >> Yeah.

[00:22:48]Yeah. I've never named an animal in my career and then went back and be like oh we messed up. Yeah. This shouldn't have been Fiona. That was wrong. Like they [laughter] always just kind of become their names so yeah. We're kind of hoping whatever it ends up being like they'll they'll embody it and it'll work. So, now when you tell tell us that you're going to let the animals choose, how does that look?

[00:23:07]Um well, I don't know when this is airing, but yesterday the hornbills had their day to do their like choosing thing. So, our co-workers um set up five bags with like the names written on the front and then they like videoed it for PR, but um for their round it was like the last bag chosen was the one that was eliminated.

[00:23:26]>> Okay.

[00:23:27]>> is it safe to say like what was eliminated?

[00:23:29]>> Yeah, yeah, okay. Yes, this this will unfortunately come out after I think the video does, so you can Okay, okay, I know it's going to be like a spoiler alert.

[00:23:36]Um the cool names got eliminated.

[00:23:38]>> Okay, so there's no Nico, Cooper, or Sheldon.

[00:23:41]>> Right, they're out, yep. Okay, well, I'll be honest, that was my least favorite, too.

[00:23:45]>> [laughter] >> Good riddance, the hornbills chose well.

[00:23:49]It's kind of funny, too, cuz I don't know if you watched the whole video, but they like do all the bags and the one is still sitting there and they just up and leave. Like they literally just They didn't even go for it.

[00:23:58]>> Don't even engage with it. Bad luck.

[00:24:00]That's bad.

[00:24:01]>> [laughter] >> What a fun idea. I love it so much.

[00:24:04]That's So, who is the hornbills just chose?

[00:24:06]Who's next on the list? I think we said siamangs next. Siamangs, okay. Yeah, we're going to let the siamangs narrow it down. Then after that, Uncle Mo, um who shares a habitat with the otters.

[00:24:16]>> Uncle Mo.

[00:24:17]>> He's going to narrow it down um to the final two choices and then for the otters are ultimately going to be the ones to choose. So, we have this vision, we hope it pans out, we'll see. We're going to like paint the names of like the last two sets on two nest boxes set set opposite from each other and then have the babies in the middle and then like let the adults back over and whichever nest box that they put the babies in we'll say they're choosing those names for them. Yeah, we have big dreams, we hope this pans out. You hope uh uh Splash, who's the one that takes takes the >> Oh gosh, right?

[00:24:50]>> [laughter] >> She's going to take one to the other one. They'll like both end up in Yes.

[00:24:54]>> [laughter] >> Look, hey, I we'll see. If we have to split the names up and we get like a fish or a fishy name plus a water name plus a we'll see.

[00:25:02]>> There you go. That's some of the fun of it, I guess. We know animals always cooperate with our plans, so I'm sure it's going to [laughter] go go off without a hitch, yeah.

[00:25:10]No, I love that idea. It's such a cool concept to have them actually choose their not choose their names. I've never seen that before, yeah.

[00:25:15]>> Enrichment, so fun. You mentioned Uncle Mo. Will you tell everybody a little bit about Mo?

[00:25:21]Yeah. You Do you want to Yeah, cuz Mo wasn't wasn't here the last time we chatted, right? He's been a new addition to Safari Adventure Point. So yeah, the last time we did the podcast we didn't have Mo yet. Um he came to us in September. He's 5 years old. He is a babirusa.

[00:25:36]Um he has two brothers, Larry and Curly. So Mo, [laughter] Larry, Curly.

[00:25:41]Um and he lives with otters, not full-time. He does have his own bedroom space behind the scenes, but they do coexist on habitat together. Which we've seen a lot of funny videos and the otters definitely like Mo. Not sure how much Mo likes the otters, but >> [laughter] >> A babirusa is a type of pig, like if in in case anybody doesn't know. Um but an Asian species of pig. Is there anything else like native or natural history you could tell us a little bit about?

[00:26:06]They're one of the oldest species, if not the oldest like species of pigs that's still alive. Um so they're like they're ancient. They're ancient pigs with the wisdom of the past imbued in them. And their most like striking features that the males have these tusks that grow out of their face and literally back towards their own skull.

[00:26:25]And depending on like the confirmation of those tusks, sometimes they'll crisscross and no problems at all.

[00:26:29]Sometimes they literally carve straight back into their own skull.

[00:26:32]>> That is why? And it can kill them. It's wild.

[00:26:35]They found like What a terrible death.

[00:26:37]skulls of pigs who clearly died from this, but there's such a strong selection for it in breeding that it doesn't matter. If they die at age 15 from this, but they bred for 7 years before that, yeah, that genetic trait gets passed on.

[00:26:50]Um so Mo was very lucky. Obviously, he doesn't have to worry about that happening to him here at the zoo because we just file his tusks and make sure that they stay in like a healthy safe like orientation on his head. Um, but yeah, you're going to see that and notice that right away. He's He's definitely like He's I think uh kind of like our dark horse at Siamang Point cuz people come over looking for Siamangs and otters and then they see the hornbills and they're like, "Wow, those are amazing." And then everyone looks at the habitat and goes, "What is that?"

[00:27:17]>> [laughter] >> Is that a rock? Oh, wait, it's a hippopotamus.

[00:27:20]Yeah. Well, he's frequently called a hippo, a rhino, a warthog. Warthog, yeah.

[00:27:26]>> more. I feel like those are the the top three.

[00:27:27]>> Yeah.

[00:27:28]But the cool thing about Mo is most people have never even heard of a babirusa. So, when they come up to Siamang Point and almost everybody leaves like fully understand uh certainly if a keeper's around, they know not only what he is but that he's Uncle Mo and >> [laughter] >> he is like has this special relationship with our otters, yeah. That's so funny.

[00:27:46]So, tell us a little bit about like what he does on the exhibit and what the otters do. Yeah. [laughter] Um, so he mainly his like I mean, he can go everywhere in the yard and in the pool. Um, last year when he first went out, he never really would go in the water yet. I think at his previous facility, they had water features but I don't think like as intensive as ours cuz we have the otters. Um, and he can swim. Um, he's just not ex- maybe not a as experienced in swimming.

[00:28:13]>> [laughter] >> But mainly his like areas over to the right. Otters Otters go everywhere but um, he does wade over now to the little little What do we call Otter Island?

[00:28:21]Um, and he [clears throat] goes over there and hangs out with them. Um, yeah, he hasn't really necessarily swam yet.

[00:28:28]>> Okay. That'd be super cool if he came in one day and saw him swimming.

[00:28:32]But he's getting more comfortable and I think over the winter when we had to drop the pool so it was all empty, I think that like really boosted his confidence of like even though it wasn't water, he's like, "Oh, I know like this is not anything super scary."

[00:28:42]>> Yeah. He got to navigate the space empty and yeah. Yeah, so Mo spends his days there's a couple of like favorite activities for Mo.

[00:28:50]We He's one of our animals that at this point is a little high maintenance. Like he does require a lot of like enrichment resets. We want to make sure that Mo is busy and has things to do. In the wild he'd spend all day foraging looking for foods and stuff. So we're trying to reset him constantly.

[00:29:05]We have a We call it the selfie station.

[00:29:08]So Mo loves laying right up at the glass with his face right in the window.

[00:29:12]>> [laughter] >> And it's so fun as keepers because like we'll have cameras up keeping an eye on things and the number of people that like lay down on the ground to get their face right next to Mo to take a selfie like warms my heart. Grown men Jenna.

[00:29:25]Grown men are laying on the ground taking selfies with >> [laughter] >> Mo. It makes me so happy.

[00:29:29][clears throat] Now they know they're on camera though.

[00:29:32]We love selfies. Keep doing your thing.

[00:29:34]We love it.

[00:29:35]And I think one thing about Mo that was like extra magical to me and unique. So most babirusas love to be like pet and scratch by their keepers. And if their temperament is good enough like Mo's is we can share space with him and go in and give him pets and scratches and they love it. They just lay down and like it's almost more reinforcing to them than food. So Mo loves getting a good pet and a scratch. And then when Mo came to us here at Cincinnati I think glass was a new concept for him. Because he would walk up to every guest at that glass and lower his head and be like as calm and non-threatening as possible. Close his eyes and like lean in and wait.

[00:30:12]>> [laughter] >> And I wait for the pets. his selfie station.

[00:30:15]>> I think that's why. Cuz he has another area where we like set it up for him to lay down if he want me he can lay down anywhere right? But like a straw bed for him to lay down in.

[00:30:22]But >> even like the straw like where his We like set straw at his selfie station. He like He scoots it over.

[00:30:28]>> it over to his spot. He's like this is where my people >> Okay, here's the next tour idea. You cut a hole [laughter] in that glass. You put a door on.

[00:30:37]30 minutes every hour people can come [laughter] and scratch Mo with like a like one of those I thought about like back scratcher a scrub brush on a long handle or something because he's just all day and he's like, "What's wrong with people in Cincinnati that they don't get pets? [laughter] I'm right here."

[00:30:54]Yeah, he really does. So, he's he's been a great ambassador for his species because he's just like right up there for our guests. So, and that's also been really helpful because the otters are not super visible right now. Like with the pups being young, they're off habitat a lot. Um the one-year-old boys are coming out fairly regularly and like romping around and getting crazy with it. But, when when people show up and the otters are not out, at least Mo's like the consolation prize. Like, "I'm here." And people usually get a big old smile on their face and it doesn't sting so much that they missed the otters.

[00:31:23]>> Yeah, that's a great consolation. If you can take a selfie with Mo, you can't be too disappointed.

[00:31:28]Add it to the list of things we have to do. I know, see I didn't I This is whole selfie station is new to me.

[00:31:34]We [clears throat] need to make this an official thing.

[00:31:36]>> [laughter] >> Like like designate it. Yes, something like that. Ah, I love it.

[00:31:41]>> Not that people need any like guidance, it just happens naturally. Like they all know what to do.

[00:31:45]>> [laughter] >> And you did mention so Mo, he can go back to his own bedroom where he kind of gets away from everyone. But, he does have a lot of interacting with the otters. How does that typically go?

[00:31:54]It's been interesting. So, like there in the beginning uh Mo would have this like he would just like stop like a statue and the otters would come up to him.

[00:32:02]He's like, "Oh, freeze." And I guess try to just be like non-threatening and not reinforcing any behavior he didn't like.

[00:32:09]You just kind of wait them out. And Asian small claw otters are one of three species of finger otters and like they're very tactile. Like they want to touch things with their hands. So, they'll come up to Mo and they're soaking wet and he's dry and there's literally tiny little hand prints. Yes, from the otters like all over Mo like graffiti art where they've been touching on him and stuff. Um so, the as the water boys we call them like our first litter have gotten older, they're kind of in this like punky teenager phase right now, but they're kind of bullying Uncle Moe around a little bit. Before the this newest litter happened um and like they could all go outside, there was like nothing in the back to be worried about like attending to the new kids. Um Mochi you like the boys would be playing and then Mochi already does her own thing a lot and she'd be off on her own like sitting in vicinity of Moe.

[00:32:57]>> [clears throat] >> Me and one of the volunteers would call like, "Oh, look it's M&M, Moe and Mochi."

[00:33:02]Yeah, she likes to go and hang out with him sometimes, I think. They enjoy the same things like snacking and napping.

[00:33:07]That's Mochi and Moe were like all day every day. Right, right. But Mochi's been very busy and she she's not been able to snack and nap with Moe. And then in the meantime, the otter boys are like getting a little fidgety, a little restless, like they they need something to do and there's Moe. So, they've been testing out how big and strong they are.

[00:33:24]They chase him around the yard.

[00:33:26]They are like nipping at his ankles and his tail and stuff. It's something that we're very aware of and we're recognizing like it's not always the most positive experience for Moe. The tricky thing is it's hard for us to give Moe um like a safe place to go to where the otters can't follow because he's big. He's 165 lb. So, any door that operates and works for Moe is big enough that it's going to let an otter in. And we talked about, well maybe if it's heavy and only he can push it open, well then we have to worry about it shutting on an otter. Um yeah, so right now we're kind of trying to manage and mitigate things and make sure that the otters have plenty of things keeping them busy so that Uncle Moe is not looking so enticing to play with. Um but it's something that we're definitely monitoring closely and we want to make sure that if this gets to a point where this is not good quality of life for Moe, we're definitely going to keep that in mind and and consider whether or not this is like his forever home.

[00:34:16]It's I mean, it's so fun to have a mixed species habitat and it sounds like he is just like a great uncle and you know, puts up with a lot. Hopefully he enjoys the little pets and maybe Yeah, it's like you can train the otters to give scratches.

[00:34:30]>> [laughter] >> Just hop on top and scratch the guy up.

[00:34:33]And hopefully the boys will kind of grow out of it, you know. I hope so, too. And I think that once the little otters are out on habitat and everyone's out there together, maybe they're going to be busy playing with their younger siblings and Moe will get more of a break, so we'll see. We're keeping our fingers crossed.

[00:34:47]It's just so funny to me how bold those little otters are. Like you mentioned, they're what, 10 lb and then Moe's 150 and 60 [laughter] lb pig and he's just tolerant of it. They're >> Yeah.

[00:34:56]bullying the bully, basically. That's [laughter] such a good point. And part part of us is like, Moe, lay down the law, baby. Like it's okay. Like give them a hard no sometimes. Be like, you will not treat me like that. If you need to gently toss an otter to [laughter] get your point across, like I think there's a healthy way for him to set a boundary with them. But like to Carly's point, his temperament, he's just so chill and calm and relaxed. He just kind of takes the abuse.

[00:35:18]>> He just like redirects and does goes and does something else. Yes. Reminds me of Tucker here.

[00:35:23]>> [laughter] >> He's just happy to be here.

[00:35:29]Cool. Do you have uh trivia today, Mark?

[00:35:32]>> have some trivia for you all. Unless there's something about otters or the new new litter or anything that we didn't touch on that you wanted to talk about, but >> that's it. Just be like, hopefully that the babies will be out on habitat starting in June.

[00:35:45]Um so, depending on when this airs, you know, if you're really looking to see those new babies, June and even then, there's still going to be a lot of napping going on. So, there'll be bursts where they're like active and doing all the crazy stuff and then they'll be two or three hours where they're napping in a hole somewhere and you won't even see them. Um so, just like setting your expectations when you come out to look for them that they're still young and life is fascinating and fun and it it's exhausting, so they need a lot of nap time still. And hey, even if you don't see the otters, you'll get to see Moe.

[00:36:10]So, I don't know what's could be worse, for sure. Right. Well, last time you you both came on, we did a trivia about the otters. So, I've actually got trivia today about all the other animals that you take care of at Siang Point. Even though we talked a lot about the otters today, but I've got some some horn bi- babirusa and siamang trivia for you today. Oh boy. First question we've got for you is talking about the hornbills, which I just got to say they might be just the prettiest birds in the world.

[00:36:36]They are so striking. Like they're gorgeous birds. What is the term for the quote unquote horn that is on the hornbill's beak?

[00:36:46]Do you guys know what it's called? Yeah.

[00:36:47]A casque. A casque, yeah, there we go.

[00:36:49]The casque. And I'm sure you guys know this better than me, but that that thought of that casque is it helps their calls reverberate, right? Like so.

[00:36:57]>> I like to tell kids especially like if you think of a cheerleader with a megaphone, like apparently it like it makes it's like a resonating chamber and it yeah makes them much louder in the forest. And in Southeast Asia everybody be loud. Everybody >> [laughter] >> Seriously, like the siamangs are loud, the hornbills are loud, even the otters are screaming. So they're all just trying to get louder than the next guy so that everyone can hear them. That's so funny. I never thought of it like a megaphone. That's a good Yeah, that's an easy way to put it. Perfect. One for one so far. Next question hornbill related.

[00:37:26]What is the average wingspan of a hornbill?

[00:37:30]I want to guess it's like I feel like it's on their thing outside. I want to say it's like five and a half to six feet. I want to say like six feet.

[00:37:38]>> say eight. Eight. You guys are right on.

[00:37:40]Everything I read said right around five and a half feet. [snorts] Yeah. I should know that from the bird show. I think I've heard that told to me a million times.

[00:37:48]Yeah. They are beautiful if you happen to be able to get the chance to see one fly. They're striking animals for sure.

[00:37:54]And it is crazy cuz like five and a half feet, they're not that tall. Like I feel like that's such a extreme. And when they fly cuz we'll Carly and I will go out and and like cue them to fly for our guests so they can see it. The sound, like they it's so loud.

[00:38:09]>> like the Yes. Yes. It's like a military helicopter and I'm like [laughter] whoa.

[00:38:14]It's just Blake and Remy being like They also look I feel like a lot bigger than what they actually weigh. Yes.

[00:38:19]>> Cuz they only weigh around like six pounds I think, right? Yeah. Yeah, seven seven at most. Yeah.

[00:38:25]Yeah, I would have expected more than that. All right, two for two so far.

[00:38:28]Next question we've got is about old Uncle Mo, the [laughter] babirusa.

[00:38:32]What does the term babirusa mean in Malay? Does anyone know what the term is for? Isn't it pig deer? Pig deer. Yep, yeah.

[00:38:41]Pig deer. Kind of a combination of, you know, obviously they are pigs, but also like you talked about their tusks. They almost look like antlers potentially if you saw them far away. Yeah.

[00:38:52]Yeah.

[00:38:52]Easy to get them confused. Three for three, guys. We're killing it. We're killing it. Next question we've got. How far away can a siamang's call be heard?

[00:39:01]We talked when he just talked about how everyone's competing for audio space out in the jungles of Indonesia. So, how far away can a siamang's call be heard? I feel like I've heard a couple different numbers. I want to say it's two miles.

[00:39:12]>> I think it I think two miles. That's what we tell people.

[00:39:14]>> Two miles is spot on. Yeah. That's what I've been telling them.

[00:39:18]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, two miles is spot on. And meanwhile, when you're in Cincinnati, you might not hear it two miles away with all the noise pollution we have here, right? But when you're actually in the jungle >> heard us. neighbors up They [laughter] probably did hear us. That's true. When we moved into our new space, we did hear about it from a few neighbors who actually were very, very understanding once we like explained that they're new and they're you know, we're getting acclimated, but yeah, you're going to be hearing more of them cuz they live in the house.

[00:39:42]>> [laughter] >> All right, four for four. On to our last question. See if we can go perfect, 100% here. What is the term for the type of locomotion that gibbons use as they go through the trees?

[00:39:54]Brachiation. Brachiation. Yeah, five for five. And it's like >> And creepy human yeti walk.

[00:40:01]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, it is incredible if you happen to see some videos of it or if you're lucky enough to see it in person of them of them brachiating. It is just beyond impressive. And to think that they do it 100 ft in the air in the canopy of the forest, nuts. And they just swing themselves. No, like free fall, too. Yeah, they will.

[00:40:21]Burb has terrified. Just anybody listening who doesn't know brachiation, think of a kid on the monkey bars, like one arm over the other, basically.

[00:40:28]>> I was just thinking about that. Do monkeys, many monkeys brachiate? You think of like orangs and gibbons.

[00:40:34]The apes versus monkeys. Should it be ape bars? Should it be? Should it be ape bars?

[00:40:40]>> Gibbons, yeah. Gibbons are definitely brachiaters.

[00:40:42]>> to rebrand this. Yeah.

[00:40:44]>> [laughter] >> Somebody get in touch with the playground makers.

[00:40:48]Make it accurate.

[00:40:48]>> our own movement with Lincoln and Luke.

[00:40:50][laughter] They'll tell all their friends.

[00:40:53]Can you think of any monkeys that actually brachiate? Because I don't know, I don't know a ton about monkeys.

[00:40:58]>> or howler monkeys? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Okay, so that's not wrong. The The weird thing like I see what you're saying there cuz the distinction is like when monkeys navigate, they tend to use their tail a lot, right?

[00:41:09]>> they're like jumping. I feel like I don't know.

[00:41:11]Whereas, obviously the gibbons and apes don't have tails to use, yeah. We're going to have to look into this further.

[00:41:17]Yeah.

[00:41:18]>> [laughter] >> We need to do research. We need to do more research.

[00:41:23]Oh man, Jenna, do you have anything for us, anything else for our guests while we have them here? As long as we covered everything, um our final question is, what can I do?

[00:41:31]What can we do? Okay, so Jenna actually cued me and she was she had a great idea. Since we're talking about baby otters. Oh.

[00:41:38]>> [laughter] >> Talking about baby otters and thinking about baby things, um we thought back to when when my kiddo was young, we actually tried the reusable diapers. And I know a lot of parents out there are probably terrified at that thought.

[00:41:49]Like, that sounds horrifying, right?

[00:41:51]That's disgusting and messy and like that There's nothing easier than taking the diaper off and throwing it away, but there's obviously a huge environmental impact associated with that. So, if you are curious or brave enough to give it a try with reusable cloth diapers, I did that um for at least a year with Luke.

[00:42:07]We didn't do it for our whole diaper journey, but for a whole chunk of time there, at least a year, we did do them.

[00:42:12]Um, and it's very doable. It's actually very doable. You'd be surprised.

[00:42:16]Um, so there's plenty of brands out there. And there's most of them are like a wearable outer shell that you like swap the inserts in and out. And there's even like laundry services that will take and like launder these things for you. So, if you're like, "I don't want to mix the baby poo in with like my clothes I'm wearing to work." You don't have to. There's laundry services that will take that and clean it and bring it back to you. Um, so yeah, it's just one thing you could consider. And honestly, a lot of the time with Luke, we were doing kind of a a blend. Like, if you're going like to the zoo for the day, sometimes trying to bag up and keep the dirt dirty diaper with you is like not super easy. So, bring some disposables for something like that. But, if you're at home for the day and it is something that you can manage to do, like give it a try.

[00:42:57]Um, and I think I always like try to point out to people like being an environmentalist and being conscious about the stuff doesn't mean that it's one person doing it perfectly. It's all of us doing it imperfectly will make the big impact. So, even if you only have two cloth diapers and you throw them into the rotation every once in a while, that's going to have an impact. So, yeah, consider it. Look into it. See, you you so well said, as always. But, that is something that I commend because I I I have this podcast because I want to make the earth a better place, you know? [laughter] Uh, but I just was unwilling to go that route because it sounded so so tricky and just like, you know, when you have a baby, it's hard. It's hard enough in general. And I was like, I just can't do it. So, but I mean, like you said, it's really not as hard as it probably sounds and it's definitely worth trying. And even just yeah, It's all about the little things.

[00:43:45]Right. Just do it once in a while. Even just once in a while it can make a difference. Yeah. Yeah, like you mentioned you did it for a year. I mean, I can't imagine how many diapers you saved.

[00:43:51]>> Oh my gosh. And money, too. Diapers are expensive. Money, too. Right. Good point, Jenna. Yeah, the water, the what everything, all the things. So, yeah.

[00:43:58]Love it. Awesome. Give cloth diapers a try out there.

[00:44:01]>> [laughter] >> Maybe not for the adults, but for the parents out there. For the parents with kids out there.

[00:44:08]>> [gasps] >> Oh, well, thank you both so much for joining us. I'm really, really excited to see where this naming journey goes.

[00:44:14]We're following along with it.

[00:44:16]>> [laughter] >> Okay, well, we see updated videos as it goes or will it be all combined? I think the hope is to kind of release them like as we go through zoo babies months. So, like maybe one each week or something with the combination being at the end of May and the announcing of the names. So, Yeah, awesome. Perfect. Well, thank you both for joining us. Thanks to everyone out there for tuning in to today's episode. Wendy and Carly, be sure to give Mo scratch for us.

[00:44:40]>> [laughter] >> Thank you guys for having us. Yeah, thanks for being here. Hope everyone has a great week.