Chris G. Simmons on Lick City, The Vagues, The Niki Taylors and More

[00:00:00]Hello everyone. Welcome to a new episode of the Florida Sound Archive podcast.

[00:00:06]I'm your host Jeff Kaiser and for today's episode I have on with me a very special guest. I'm pleased to welcome in Chris G. Simmons. If you're not familiar with Chris, you're going to be after this episode. And for those that are, well, you're in for a treat. We're going to take a long trip down memory lane, talk about a lot of the bands that Chris has been in over the years, whether it be from Nasty to Lick City to the Vagues and the Nikki Taylor and everything else in between and maybe even after. Chris G. Simmons is here. Welcome into the podcast. Great to have you.

[00:00:46]>> Thank you, sir. It is an absolute honor to be here on your great show. I love it.

[00:00:50]>> Oh, I appreciate that, Chris. Thank you so much. and I'm great to finally have you on so we can tackle your story and get into some of the history there. So, that's where we're going to really get things started is to think about some of those earliest beginnings, where you grew up, some of those early musical influences. So, let's go back to that early beginning for you. Where'd you grow up?

[00:01:14]>> Oh gosh. Born in uh like probably half your guests, Broward General uh 1969.

[00:01:22]Um, and uh, yeah, just uh, great family, you know, very very lucky to have the the family that I did.

[00:01:31]>> What was your what was your family listening to in those early years when you were growing up?

[00:01:36]>> And you know, you know what? My dad still has all my records, my mom's records, and he's got a thing just like what's behind you. It's like all of our all My dad got stuck with all of our [ __ ] like the uh the Star Wars toys, the records. Uh, yeah. All that stuff. Uh he's probably got like a million dollars worth of Star Wars toys of mine sitt sitting in the attic, melting in the attic. Uh but yeah, they you know like everybody probably classic rock, you know, uh Fleetwood Mac and and and whatnot. And uh uh had you know musical somewhat musical family. My grandfather, he was a jazz musician there. My dad's side of the family is British. My mom's side of the family is redneck. So, um, both of those accents cancel each other out and so I have none. But, uh, but yes, so my dad, Reginald Sim, my grandfather, Reginald Simmons, he was a a jazz musician, played with some of the greats, etc. Um, he was also engineer of uh, an engineer at public television right from the beginning in Miami. They moved over here, I think, in the 50s from England. my mom, I mean my dad, his mom, her his dad and his sister and uh got into television and then you know I had my my dad he he was also in television. He un went to the war in Vietnam and whatnot and came back got into television and he actually retired as the VP of engineering and operations of public television in Miami. Uh he was also somewhat musician but not really.

[00:03:14]We had a guitar that was my granddad's and he actually taught me my dad actually taught me my first uh first song on the guitar. I I don't know the name. I I don't know.

[00:03:24]>> It goes boas.

[00:03:26]I can't I can't I don't want to sing it.

[00:03:28]But uh I'll destroy it, but I haven't thought about it in in 50 years probably. But he talk and that that was kind of the the beginning of of my life of hell. Rockstar hell. What was the first band you actually discovered on your own that was not considered your parents' music?

[00:03:46]>> Oh my god. I will say the exact same thing every single person you've ever interviewed will say. And that is, can you guess?

[00:03:54]>> It's got to be Kiss.

[00:03:57]>> You know it. Yeah. Kiss. Oh my god.

[00:04:00]Kiss. When I I think it was Alive.

[00:04:06]And when I saw that [ __ ] record, I about shat my pantaloons. Okay. I was like, what the I don't know what it was, but that's what I wanted to be. I don't know what I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what I was seeing, but I knew that's that that was it. And like from the very first moment, and I don't know I don't think it was right when it came out because it was probably before.

[00:04:26]I don't know. But that was the first album I saw alive. And you know, when you're 10, back when Saturday Night Live was funny, you look and you don't realize that it's a photo shoot. Now you look at it and it's like, oh, it's a [ __ ] photo shoot. But back then it was like, you know, Ace is and Jean is like, you know, holy [ __ ] [ __ ] man.

[00:04:47]I would that was it. It was that was it.

[00:04:51]So, you know, I um I immediately got into them, started getting the record.

[00:04:58]My parents started getting me the records and um of course then I >> What instrument did you gravitate to when you were getting familiar with Kiss guitar?

[00:05:08]>> Abs. I was already playing guitar, you know. Um I started playing guitar like you know at a very early age. I don't even know when my dad taught me that but it was I was very very young and um so um so anyway I started playing and I started writing songs immediately. Um and um got got you know started emulating Kiss of course and then of course I was one of those kids who tortured the family with shows when they had family dinners.

[00:05:41]So and you can actually see this if you go to if you go to chrisgsimmons.com/inter and this is a website only for your audience. uh just go there and you can see a [ __ ] ton of pictures and the first ones are two or three from the shows, the shows that I put my poor family through. They loved me and they were so supportive and I tortured them and punished them with these [ __ ] shows.

[00:06:07]They they loved it, you know, but or they pretended to and so that's good enough. But uh so I would dress up in these wacky outfits as you may be able to see in the in the web page and uh would put on these shows and sing with my cousin Tanya and uh put her I made her all up and stuff and it it was fun.

[00:06:27]And actually that's when I discovered I think I I was into Led Zeppelin at the time too which is clear in one of those pictures where I have the bow and I'm bowing my grandfather's guitar that I spoke of earlier being taught of. Um, and then when I saw I had a picture I had a giant poster of Led Zeppelin and it had Jimmy Paige with his SG uh double neck.

[00:06:50]And so I was like, "Okay, I need a double neck." So I had a a Kiss guitar, one of those plastic pieces of [ __ ] they gave you. And then I had another one that was like a wireless that went to like a radio like the Hey, good looking.

[00:07:02]Be back to pick you up later. That thing the the Mr. microphone, you know, it was FM. And so I took my dad's soldering iron and I ruined it with the plastic and I burnt the neck off one and soldered plastic soldered it on the other. And you can actually see the photograph on that page uh of me playing the double neck guitar at other shows. Yes, I destroyed two guitars and my dad's soldering iron. So you're welcome, father. And uh yeah, so I was always always doing that. And it it is funny because I would write these songs and I had a [ __ ] ton of them probably when I was 10. I had notebooks of them. And I would write the lyrics and then because Led Zeppelin was known for their extensive solos, you know, of course.

[00:07:54]And so I would make I it would be like the verse, you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah. And then it would be like solo 3 minutes three and then another verse, you know, chorus and then solo 10 minutes. What the [ __ ] And I would actually I had a stopwatch and I would sing the song, you know, in my head and and sing it and then let it run for three minutes for the solo and then be like and then I would write the time on the top like this song is 10 minute cuz back in the 70s long songs were the were the thing. So, the longer my song was, the prouder I was, you know, and they were all kind of stupid, but I ended up writing one. And I can't believe I [ __ ] remember this. The first song, like the first like real song that had like real music and whatnot was it was called Showdown. I can't believe I'm remembering this. And uh I sang it and played it for my parents and they loved it, you know. when we had a dry erase board out by the uh the clothes washing machines and it was like up on the wall and I wrote I remember writing showdown is a hit on there. Oh lord, my poor parents. But yes, so that was my my my early uh and you know what my dad's sister Muriel want to like you you have these people in your life who you are just extremely spiritually close to and that would be you know of course my parents and who are the greatest people that nature has ever ever created. Uh but my grandmother on my dad's side and my and her daughter Muriel, Nanny Simmons and uh Muriel uh we're just really really close. And I remember once we went to um the Hollywood Mall and her where we Nanny Simmons got her hair done right next to it was Specs. I think it was Specs, I'm pretty sure. And uh whatever record store. And so I would of course go in there and [ __ ] around as a kid and look at go right to the Kiss section, you know, of course. And uh I remember once I went to the Kiss section and I was looking and I think Dress to Kill either just came out or I didn't have it yet, one of the two.

[00:10:03]And so we I went there. This is like one of my most treasured memories in my life. And I I went there and Muriel was my aunt M auntie Muriel was sitting out waiting for my for Nanny Simmons and to get her hair done. And um I you know did whatever I do in specs and then I I come back out and I started telling her about the album like oh and uh she was like do you want your auntie Muriel to be nice to you and I knew exactly which where she was going and I you know I was I was always very uh not shy but like humble person not humble even just like I was embarrassed to take things from people and so I knew what she was going for you know and her intention and uh and I was like, "No, no, no." And she goes and fishes out a uh $10 bill cuz I think albums you could buy an album for 10 bucks then. But uh so she gave me the album. I went and got Dressed to Kill and it was like it endeared me. I was already endeared to her, but it was just such an endearing moment and and it just like something that I think about all the time and and that so whenever I see that album, I can I can feel it, you know.

[00:11:14]>> No doubt. It it brings back Yeah, that >> that memory for you.

[00:11:18]>> Yeah, totally. And so, you know, the Kiss things and then and then if I didn't know I wanted to be a [ __ ] rock star at that point, which I did, but if I didn't, Kiss Alive too. Holy [ __ ] [ __ ] When I saw that record cover again, I shhat my pantaloons.

[00:11:38]I I about sh I I I I can feel it. I can feel Kiss alive 2 right now talking about it. It it it was it wasn't just an album. It was a It was an experience. It was a It was a It was a It was a It was like church, you know?

[00:11:57]It was rock and roll church and you got that [ __ ] thing and you took the plastic off. You weren't even ready.

[00:12:04]You weren't even ready for what was coming at you. And you open it up and what do you see? The [ __ ] stage. All the fire going off. Yeah. All at once.

[00:12:15]Which of course never really happened in KISS shows, but all of it off at once.

[00:12:19]And you know, Paul's like this and his his hand is in the fire. I I remember I remember probably every pixel of that that album that that that image. And I was like, "Oh my [ __ ] god. Holy God.

[00:12:31]Oh my god. This is what I want. I'm a rockstar. I don't give a [ __ ] what happens. This is what I have to do."

[00:12:37]It's interesting. Talk about some of your earliest concert experiences. Where were you going to concerts? Were you going to places like the Hollywood Sportatorium, Sunrise Musical Theater?

[00:12:47]Were you going other places? Like, where were you going to some of those early concerts?

[00:12:52]>> That was it, man. The Sportiatorum. uh the the 20 miles out and one two-lane road, you know, and just like hell, you have to leave like two hours in advance or else you're going to miss the show because you'll be sitting in traffic and and of course you're smoking weed and the you know, the whole point of that trip you make, you know, smoking weed, drinking beer, whatever on the way out and uh you know, finally finding a parking space and uh first first concert, I think it was my first concert ever, in fact, was KISS. Shocking. It was the dynasty, I believe. And it is funny because we were we were way the hell up there. Me, my mom, my dad, and my aunt Sandy went and uh and uh I remember once and you know Paul Paul Stanley. Yes. Yeah. Paul Stanley. I remember like waving and then he happened to wave at the exact same time back. I was like, "Oh my god, he waved back at me." You know, what an idiot.

[00:13:53]But uh yeah, so Kiss Kiss was that was I remember we bought we bought our t-shirts outside which of course were all the bootleggers and they were just awful and even when I was 10 or whatever age that was I I knew like this the shirt's terrible. Of course I wore it anyway but um yeah it was it was bad but yeah the so that was my first one and then uh I mean everybody you know but it was only the sport. I can't tell you.

[00:14:18]Maybe the later on I went to the um Sunrise Musical Theater. That was pretty much but the Sporatorium was it. That was like that was like a thing. That's where everybody was, you know, and you got to see uh see all the people and whatever. And uh but yeah, I mean everybody Ingvey uh of course uh never saw Zeppelin unhappily uh Kiss Ingve AC everybody.

[00:14:42]Iron Maiden, of course, you know, Iron Maiden was a was a pretty good uh influence. Uh Ingvey was a to that was of course later, but Ingve was a was a huge influence on me. I knew all the songs and I ripped all the songs and whatnot. And uh you know, the Kiss Kiss, you know, u I'm trying to think just like all the all the bands that everybody has seen back then. Uh, I just, you know, I went there, but I know this sounds odd, but I was never really into watching bands. I would go, we'd go to the Sporttorium to to to hang out and see people, but I never really watching bands. To me, it's like an annoyance now. You have to I have to really want to see see that.

[00:15:26]Like Skinny Puppy, I will go see and I'll go to Chicago to see. Uh, Ramstein, I just saw them a couple October ago.

[00:15:35]And until that moment, the greatest concert I'd have ever seen in my entire life, bar none, and by far was Skinny Puppy at the Cameo Theater, 1992. Now, we're jumping ahead in time, but since it's relevant, I might as well talk about it now. But me and my buddy Carl, God rest his soul, one of my best friends in the world, um, we went and we and we of course tripped on acid, which made it even 20 times better. And you can actually see the show if you go to YouTube and search the Skinny Puppy 1992 Cameo Theater.

[00:16:06]The camera is literally right next to us. Uh this it was just a [ __ ] mind [ __ ] This show was and I anybody who is has any interest in Skinny Puppy, look that up on on the on the and watch the show.

[00:16:21]It's the whole show right the way through and it it's holy [ __ ] So anyway, but until that Rom and then then I saw Romstein. I was like, "Well, Snow Puppy's second place." Because that that was an exper it it changed me and I I just was cra I I spent the next three, four, five months craving to see Ramstein. I don't even know any of their songs. I know like three or four of them that I like, but I just went for the spectacle and holy [ __ ] But uh yeah, in concerts and whatnot, that was, you know, Sportiatorum. Spatorium was it.

[00:16:54]Your audience may know Record Haven. Old old farts like myself, that was the record store. Um, it was right across from MacArthur High School on Hollywood Boulevard and it was there was the the the Record Haven and then it was just like a little office kind of thing and that's where I took my my guitar lessons from and Record Haven, man. And I I probably discovered Record Haven through that, you know, walking over there and that's where like you bought records. um tapes of course, incense, they probably had bongs, I don't I don't know, but uh it was one of those places that smelled really good. Tapestries, you know, like and that was that was the place to go.

[00:17:36]And um so um and in fact it's funny I'm I'm jumping ahead here but I don't know I was like in my early teens and I'm at Record Haven with my allowance you know and I have my allowance will pay for just one record.

[00:17:54]Okay, one I got my weekly allowance. So, one record and again I'm jumping ahead, so we'll have to come back, but um so I got I'm embarrassed to say this, but I have Look what the cat track did from Poison in one hand, and then I have one of my favorite records of all time now in the other hand, which is sod speak English or die.

[00:18:22]And I'm going, "Fuck me. What should I get? Which one should I get?" Can you believe it was even a choice?

[00:18:27]>> Quite the contrast, Chris.

[00:18:29]>> Yeah, totally. Well, I was at that point.

[00:18:33]That's a coffee cup, ladies and gentlemen. Um, at that point, I was I think I was still kind of glam, you know, at the time. Uh, I was probably coming out of it. I don't I don't even remember the years, but we can we can get into that later. But, um, so I'm like, "Oh, god damn it. I'll just get Look what the cat dragged in. So I got Look what the cat cat dragged in.

[00:18:56]And I get home and I listen to this piece of [ __ ] [ __ ] And I'm like I was so [ __ ] pissed off that I got this piece of [ __ ] They just look so cool. And uh yeah, I I was very upset. It was I wasn't happy.

[00:19:13]So you know, next I'm like my allowance.

[00:19:17]Where's my allowance? And Friday comes around, I get my [ __ ] allowance.

[00:19:20]Squeeze.

[00:19:21]to Record Haven and get SOD and that was it, baby. I love I love that [ __ ] record. I still listen to it uh now.

[00:19:30]It's it's so it's such a beautiful in fact like the music I make now is is like a 10piece jazz orchestra and it's like alternative music. The songs are cool, but it's it so it's not like jazz technically, but it you would call it that. But uh my my dream is to play live with my 10piece jazz orchestra and then go off and then as an encore just play SOD, speak English or die right the way through just like as the encore. That is that is like my dream in life now over over the Powerball even. I I want I want that so bad.

[00:20:09]as you were coming of age, right, getting into your teens, even into your early 20s, at what point did you discover local music, the bands, or just someone in particular who you may have gotten a chance to know who was in a local band?

[00:20:29]When did that moment happen for you, Chris?

[00:20:33]>> You know, it honestly kind of started in high school. Um, I I played the we had a band I had a band called Iron Wolf. [ __ ] yeah.

[00:20:45]>> And we were [ __ ] Metal Yelp. And it was me, Sherry Typton. No, this is eighth 8th grade, I do believe. Me, Sherry Typton, and Mike Pearlman. Mike Pearlman sang but or after that. But um so we played the high school talent show Pines Middle and uh all of a sudden I was popular and I got it was weird cuz I was just a little, you know, a weirdo back then. And so and I didn't really I had just a couple friends. I I've always been a loner. I'm an only child. So I' I've always been a loner. I still am. I I don't being around people makes me [ __ ] tense. So um uh so then I I became there was a um some sort of uh uh assembly I guess they called it and with that the students got award for the smartest person you know etc etc and I remember they're like uh and the most talented is and I'm like Sher I'm in the back of course Sherry Tipton Sherry Tipton who was my drummer um and it was like Chris Simmons I was like holy and I wasn't happy about it at all. And uh and then so everybody's looking at me as I go up to the stage and you know whatever. And um I don't I've never experienced embarrassment so I don't know what it feels like but I'm sure that was as close to it as I've ever felt. And so I got up there, you got the reward and then so then we played the dance um and I rock and roll. We played uh whatever whatever terrible songs they were and did the drum solo, the guitar solos, you know, and and so I was [ __ ] popular. And that's when I met uh Pat Pat me and Pat and we've kind of been brothers ever since. Pat Joyce, who actually is a great interview probably for you. Um nobody knows the music the ins and outs of the South Florida music scene like Pat Joyce. Um, and he's the kind of guy who who's the the the the spectral opposite of me. He can walk into a bar knowing nobody and at the end of the night be friends with everybody and he'll walk out with like 50 new friends who who love him more than anybody they've ever met. Like I walk into a bar that I've never known any and I walk out with the same amount of friends I walked in with, which is zero.

[00:23:00]But uh but yeah, so me and him Oh. So we we had that music bond uh from that point forward and and friendship of course. And um so and then so he was that was kind of like the foundations of that. And then um this guy Ken Baron. It was my first recordings uh actually I believe or at least the first the first kind of like structured recordings uh cuz I had been recording probably I had my little my four track and I had been recording in probably since I was like 13 12 13 years old. So I've I've still have those songs on on cassette. Um but we made a metal uh project called Dog Dicks. And uh yes, that's right, ladies and gentlemen. And it was thrash. And I love it. Even now, like I'll listen to it every now and then be like, "Dude, this is [ __ ] that." Yeah. So uh but yeah, and then um and that that kind of that spiraled into um into I guess Nasty uh which was my first actual band. I was 15 years old and I know this because I couldn't drive. I had to come get picked up. I don't know how I met Les.

[00:24:14]Um, he was our he was like my first contact.

[00:24:19]Getting back to that subject of of the local scene. He was in the Miami. There was like different scenes. There was like the Hollywood scene, the Fort Lauderdale scene, the Miami scene. He was the Miami Lakes uh scene.

[00:24:32]And um he uh he was a he was a character. He was uh at the time he still had he was Asian. He was a Chinese I believe. Uh and he he he looked funky and he you know of course he was homosexual. He was a gay guy. So of course dressed impecc impeccably stylish. Always looked great. And he he was a major influence on me in terms of who I was and who like how I wanted to present myself and and whatnot. And this guy, he was so [ __ ] artistic and just super super duper talent. one of the most talented people I've ever met. And uh so he so he turned me on to like the music scene, I think. Um and so it was kind of like me and him. So um we So I don't know how we found Shawn.

[00:25:27]We uh we Sean uh Straen he was a Cooper City fellow. I might have known him from school. I'm not sure if I think he's older than me. I don't know. But uh we found him on bass and then we found Caesar uh Caesar August. I don't know.

[00:25:43]That's his stage name and that's all I know. Um he was this guy was a [ __ ] mad man on drums. Absolutely great drummer and double kick. And when when he played shows, you knew it. And it was funny because we were like glam, you know, the songs were glam and he was [ __ ] metal like metal metal to the to the to the to the to the eye it teeth and uh so but he had a PA system. He had a rehearsal place in Hyia and I didn't drive so I didn't care. So that's that's that's that's who we had. So it was the So Nasty was my first official band other than the Lightning Bolts, you know, or whatever. Blackmagic band with Gary Bosco uh when I was 10. But um uh yeah, so nasty. So we start playing um and I still have all these recordings and and whatnot, but uh we start playing in that place and we get our set together and we start playing shows. Uh oh gosh, like Treehouse. I have a list of the plays. This is and I consider this Lick City Gen 1 which is Chris Les Shawn and Caesar. That is that is Lick City Gen One. But it it was nasty at the time and we play it as nasty. And if you go to chrisgimmons.com, you can see pictures. You can see us on the marquee at uh Play Pen Arts Stocks Play Pen and whatnot. I I assume it's not there anymore. I I don't know. Um, and you know, we I kind of got my my my stage legs, if you will, at that point.

[00:27:24]Um, and so we played played played, did some recordings. I just engineered them on the four track and whatnot. And, um, then one day, um, no, no, let's let's go in in order.

[00:27:38]So, I had this crazy idea.

[00:27:41]I know, right? Me have crazy ideas. Come on. So, I had this crazy [ __ ] idea. I was like, "Why don't we this?" And we're we're going back to KISS. Everything always goes back to KISS. Uh uh why don't we build a stage? Let's build a [ __ ] stage and we can to make it easy, transportable, and and stable.

[00:28:03]We'll use milk crates. So, we implemented this. We built a st and he had out back of the the the uh the the it was like his basement. No, wasn't it wasn't a basement. It was like a It couldn't have been a basement because it was in Halia, but it was it it was completely soundproof studio, you know, where he jammed, where his his bands jam. And so, but Outback was a cement uh uh uh uh area then. And so, every day after practice or Yeah, after practice, it was at night time, me and Les would go in his car cuz he would give me a ride cuz, you know, he he drove and I didn't. I was only 15. And uh we would go behind Publix and steal as many milk crates as we could and then bring them to practice, repeat every night until we got 50, 60, 70, whatever milk crates.

[00:28:53]And then so what we did was we we built this stage that consisted of two side panels of about maybe 8 ft high by 6 ftish tall, which would cover the amps.

[00:29:08]behind them would be milk crate, milk crate, milk crate, milk crate, milk crate, which would act as stairs that we could walk on top of and get on top of these things and, you know, rock out.

[00:29:19]And so, um, and then the middle in the middle between those two was maybe like two milk crates, three milk crates high, and that was the drum riser. So, we had this complete stage. We painted it. It was painted. And then behind this um is made by Les and this was the Lick City logo.

[00:29:40]Um and I I think I'm getting ahead of myself because we were still nasty then, but I it was nasty/lick city. So whatever. What we discovered is that uh we didn't think about this at the time, but the stage that we built wouldn't fit in any [ __ ] club that we played because the if you if you if the drummer they would not the drummer wouldn't have room cuz look at look at the the lights you So we paired it down to like 4 foot sections and if you can see on either side of this image here, those are the the the the side view but shorter of this the of the side uh milk crate stage thing.

[00:30:20]>> Did the lineup Did the lineup change at all at this point or was it still the same as Nasty?

[00:30:28]>> When we were Nasty, Caesar um all of a sudden came and said, "I want another guitarist." Cuz he was [ __ ] metal, okay? And we were glam. I mean, we were It was metally, but it it really wasn't. It was It was more glam than metal. So I was like, "No." And he's like, "Please, why don't we just try it? Just try it. Just try it." And I was like, you know, and the band is like, "Let's just try it." And I'm like, "Okay, fine." So next rehearsal, he brings this guy in. Okay, we're all super cool looking. Um, I got hair down to my ass. It's half It's blonde or half blue, half pink, whatever the [ __ ] it was. You know, less is completely cool looking, of course, etc. He brings this guy in with a with a button-down shirt, you know, feathered hair to here. He looks like he would be fit very well in an office, not in a [ __ ] rock and roll band.

[00:31:25]And uh but we gave him a chance and he was I guess he was good. I don't even remember him enough to to to know. I don't even think I ever learned his name. And uh and so and so it basically came down to he's like, "We're going to have this guy in or I quit." Caesar the drummer. And so I was like, I'll get my stuff. And me and Les left. Sean stayed. And so um me and me and Les were like, "Well, whatever. We'll find people. You know, we are the band."

[00:32:02]Pause. How I found the name Lick City.

[00:32:07]This is kind of a fun story. There was a uh I can't remember the name of it. I wish I could deeply wish it was 163rd Street and 95. There was a record store right there. I wish I could remember the name of it, but I used to go there all the time. Uh cuz Les was a Miami fellow, so I was able to uh to to frequent this place. And it was a very small and they had they had a bunch of like really cool magazines that that people would just make by stacking six or seven pieces of photocopied paper and stapling it, fold it in half and then sell it. And so of course I love I love those things. And so um that's why we used to do that with Lick City at our shows. We'd have those little books at our shows. And so if anybody I don't even have one. So, if anybody has one, you have a collector's item. So, when I'm dead, sell it on eBay for $20. Boy, you'll get it. And so, um, there was one that caught my attention then and it was called Suck City and I was and I remember I can see it. It had like a blimp over it was a handdrawn thing and it was a blimp over a city with like a a light coming down or something and I was like, "Suck City. I I'm steal I'm stealing this." And then I as I uh cogitated over it and whatnot, I was like, Lick City, Lick City, this is the name, Lick City, [ __ ] yeah. And then so of course I came back to Les and he of course loved it. And uh you know Sean and Caesar, they all loved it. So we were so [ __ ] Nasty cuz Nasty was terrible. I never liked it. Um and so then from that point on we were Lick City and then we had the the logo and the stage because the stage was after Lick City, I'm pretty sure. So, >> do you remember the first show that you had as Lick City and where that was >> of Nasty or Lick City?

[00:33:59]>> Lick City.

[00:34:00]>> I can probably guarantee it was Treehouse. We played the Treehouse all the time. Treehouse, Arts Stocks, um Button, played Button, uh I think Button North, uh the one on the beach. Um, and then later on we which I'll get to, we played other places. Um, so this is still the nent days of League City. So anyway, so uh it was just me and Les at that point then. So, we um I don't I think there was a band called Cherry with um very I'm sure there was like 600,000 bands named Cherry at the time, but uh this particular one was in South Florida and it was a friend of mine. I I would call him a good friend of mine, but I haven't seen him in 20 years, 30 years. But, uh Bill McKelie, um I don't know if we stole him or if uh Brian quit. I don't know. But Brian Freriedman uh he we found him and he ended up being our drummer and he he was just he was exactly what I wanted in a drummer. Just his technique was awesome and uh and he was one of the funniest [ __ ] people I've ever met in my life.

[00:35:15]And uh there's some pictures of him on chrisgimmons.com/interview if you want to go. His name is Brian.

[00:35:21]You'll see him. Uh, and so we started playing and of course Shawn eventually with K end up coming back to us cuz Caesar wasn't he wasn't one of us in terms of musical style. He was metal and you know and Shawn was metal too. He was more metal I think than glam. And I think that shows when you see him in the pictures he kind of stands out as you know which one of these kids. But he was a great great bass player. A [ __ ] great bass player and I'm sure still is.

[00:35:51]I would hope so. Um, anyway, he ended up coming back and so this was Lick City, uh, Gen 2, Chris G. Simmons, less less named me Christy Jisom at the time, and, uh, I allowed it, but, um, it was purely uh, uh, off the cuff, informal. Uh, Sean Straen and Brian Freriedman, and that was the like lick city at that point.

[00:36:20]talk about the the look of of the of the band because as you mentioned >> as you mentioned like some of you may have shared similar aesthetics when it came to the overall look but you also mentioned that Shawn was a little bit different in terms of his look. So talk about that as far as just the overall image of the band Lick City.

[00:36:46]>> Thank you. It is an excellent excellent question or or or a topic I guess I should say. Um less all of this is less.

[00:36:56]Okay. He was he was it uh he the hairstyles was all him. So we all had the sweeping hair to the right or left or whatever. I can't tell. And his was to the right or his opposite us. And we knowing no we couldn't cuz we had a cuts. But he was also a hairdresser and he did all of our hair and makeup. Um, which is why we always looked [ __ ] great. Uh, so he uh he look, the clothes, everything less. Um, we ended up, this was kind of I think maybe before but we ended up kind of u during the cameo days uh late late uh I guess 87 whatever before like the the the months leading up to the cameo theater gig. Um we went it was like a taxi it was a very it was uniform. It was like taxi pants, uh, short jacket. I don't know if it was like if you call it a mess jacket. I'm not sure, but they were they were in all the rage back in the 80s. Oh boy. Who was dressing us in the 80s? I I don't know. But I I blame Versace. And then we had this white the suspenders that we didn't use and we just had a hanging. That was like our thing for the for the cameo shows, like our little look. And but yeah, it was all him. All him. And um, so I don't know what happened. somehow it was probably less he cuz he you know he was connected. Everybody knew who he was and uh so he uh and this dude he was like he was everything you wanted at a front man and and a and a friend and a uh just like he had the connections and what he would he was a nut. you would come into your house like and like turn [ __ ] upside down. Like if you if your parents had like brick or or or or a photographs in a in a in the how do you the frame you'd leave all that [ __ ] would be turned upside down like he would and anything he could be turned upside down would be turned upside down when he left. It was that was like his his trademark. That was his his stickick was the turning [ __ ] upside down in your house. And uh God, that guy was so great. And so, um, so anyway, he ended up, uh, hooking us up with, uh, actually before that, we had a guy named Craig Cherry, who I believe is still around. He actually dated my mother back, sheer coincidence, but, uh, and he started hooking us up with uh, gigs and and kind of like um, he didn't kind of acted as our informal manager.

[00:39:30]Um, and he kind of like cuz he was in I think he was in popular bands in the 50s and 60s and whatnot and and I don't know what he was doing at that time, but so he kind of like showed us certain things that that you should do and and how you talk and how how you present yourself to the to the media, blah blah [ __ ] blah. And so um and then this guy Reno, who I've never heard from since, he was great. He owned a warehouse off uh Pines or maybe like I can't remember. Uh but anyway, it was a big twostory beautiful warehouse and he would let us rehearse there for free all the time. He loved us. He got us gigs too as well and he kind of he kind of acted like as our uh informal manager as well. So anyway, then we ended up getting uh sh uh um Oh yeah. Okay. The first band we played as Lick City. First show we played as Lick City. And and I'm taking us back again. We were Nasty. Um, we had no drummer. Uh, this was before Caesar, I believe. Um, yeah. No, it was before Caesar. It was a Battle of the Bands. We hadn't quite learned not to play Battles of the Bands yet. And And once you play a Battle of the Bands, you learn immediately never to play Battles of the Bands. And so it was battle of the bands at a place called Club Illusions I believe and it was an all ages club and it was a pretty cool place to go. And this is where I got my first taste of [ __ ] rock and roll shows. We played I think four songs and I did the whole guitar spinning thing which nobody was doing yet. I stole it from Lita Ford. Lita Ford's guitars did it and I I was like I stored it in RAM for later.

[00:41:16]Uh it was in the filing. I'm sorry. Back then it was a filing cabinet in my So I had it in the file back there. So I did the the uh the the which [ __ ] the whole audience went nuts when I did I have I have this video still um of this show, the entire show. And uh so we had to borrow a friend uh my friend from high school, Ken Baron, who is the first most funny person I've ever met. Brian Freeman was the second, just to make that clear. And uh he was he he was the dog dicks. He was the guy I was in dog dicks with and uh he lent us their drummer. He is they was in a band called Hebie Gibbies I believe and he his name was Mark Paradise. I mean what a rockstar name dude. [ __ ] So um we we rushed in got him to play this battle of the bands. We played the Battle of Bands at Club Illusion and this is back then.

[00:42:04]It was it wasn't like this ever again really or it you know it kind of tapered off in the scene unless you were huge like um like uh Tough Luck if you back there was like a band called Tough Luck. They were like the band and uh and but like other than that like this was like the pinnacle of people shoved against the stage rocking out and I had I had ballerina tights on and uh I had taped lollipops. I took electrical tape and taped lollipops all down my legs uh at for the show. And so all the girls up front were grabbing the lollipops off and and squeezing my balls, etc. It was it was great. And I remember one just squeezed a [ __ ] at it. It wasn't it was that wasn't great. But uh the the lollipops was a thing. That was like kind of like our almost like a trademark for a while, but you couldn't really use it all the time. You had to use it only at shows where people were shoved up against and rocked. The place was packed. It was like a concert. And that really gave me my first taste of like, yes, this people screaming for you, people grabbing you, people tearing lobster lobsters off. Lobsters, lollipops. I should have went with lobsters on my pants. [ __ ] >> Lobsters would have been that could have crowd.

[00:43:22]>> Lobsters could have gone in a completely different direction, Chris.

[00:43:26]>> Especially if they were alive. You think a girl grabbing your balls is bad? Try a lobster.

[00:43:32]>> But uh but yeah, that was Man, that was that was I'm glad I remembered that right now. Thank you. Thank you for that. But um >> kind of thinking about just Lick City's evolution and as the band was kind of gaining traction because it seemed like things were starting to happen for Lick City and I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the ban also didn't make it up to New York City. Uh >> that's [ __ ] We we ended up getting this management team, uh Jack and Shireen. It was a talent line international they were called. Uh I think they still exist. I could be wrong. Uh and they discovered us and they were like blown away. Uh so they put a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of effort into us. So they had this press release. Did I give you the press release? I I should have I don't know if I posted it. It's it's total [ __ ] Like I had never even been to New York City at the time, but they they I guess it was like an image thing. Uh so uh so yeah, but um but they put a lot of money and uh they paid for a lot of stuff and he they were good with again teaching you how to act and whatnot. And uh we had to we signed a contract with them and had to go to meetings all the time and uh which was Brian Friedman, the drummer. We were all around this table and he he would totally [ __ ] with me always. uh he was able to make his throat stick out like a frog. Like if he wanted to, he would go and it would stick out like like a frog does. So we'd all be talking, we're all around these executives of Talent Line International. We're all you lick city and then surrounded by these [ __ ] executive mucky mucks and if I happen to look and I couldn't I couldn't look at him because he would [ __ ] with me. So, and if I happen to make the mistake of looking at him, this [ __ ] [ __ ] he would uh he dead serious face and just do the frog thing.

[00:45:35]And I I I can barely contain myself now thinking about it and I would just bust out laughing and I I would start crying because I would be laughing so hard I I wouldn't be able to stop like I would have to excuse myself and give a [ __ ] And he knew this is what would happen, you know? So, they they end but they ended up getting us a lot of G. played like uh Peacock Park and the Hallover Beach and uh of course you know the the standard clubs and whatnot. Uh so they actually hyped us to the point where they had this entire ceremony this they rented out a ballroom, rented us limousines, rented us tuxedos. There's actually pictures on chrisgimmons.com.

[00:46:14]You can go there and look at these these pictures of us if you see this in the the uh we have our little award has a gold record on it. uh very very uh uh uh misleading there. Uh and it was a whole thing.

[00:46:30]The press was there. There was it was like a a real thing. Total [ __ ] Like we didn't There was no award. We It would award, but the award was made up from Jack and Shireen. Uh but it was like a big thing and it got us a lot of press and that was the whole point, you know. So they knew what they were doing in terms of hype and and press, you know.

[00:46:50]>> Sure. I was I was kind of in my nent days of drug use at the time. So, a lot of this [ __ ] is fuzzy. That's why I really love this show right now because when a when I watch it with your other G like I learned so much about Carrie Peak, like I love this guy. I've known him for for 30 years. I didn't I didn't know about his car accident. Like I was like, "Holy shit." And I feel bad because, you know, that's when we got Jimmy, which we can get into later, of course, but uh I didn't know about all that until I read I love that interview.

[00:47:20]is such a [ __ ] this is a great show.

[00:47:21]Like when I when I watch the I don't always have the patience to watch it right the way through or I don't have time sometimes, but I'll watch people I know and I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] Oh, really?

[00:47:30]Oh, wow." You know, "Oh, I remember that." You know, that kind of [ __ ] you know. Yeah. This this is a great show and it's a valuable resource and I'm really grateful to you for having it. Um especially now that I'm on.

[00:47:39]>> I appreciate >> because I'm getting a lot of memories that I forgot. So, yes. Um, >> I want to kind of go into 1987 cuz I feel like ' 87 is where a lot had changed for not just the band, but for everyone as people cuz you you lost someone very close to you less. Uh perhaps we can get into a little bit about for those that may not be as familiar with what had happened and just the impact that it had on on the band and you as individuals because you were all really close.

[00:48:15]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. We were me and Les were were the band. Uh absolutely. And we I wrote the songs and I had the concept but he I should say I wrote the songs he had the concept. And so we were it was it was it was very important. Uh each of us were 50/50. I don't I wasn't more important than him and he wasn't more important than me and it's just how it was. Um so anyway, so yeah, we were we were rolling along nicely, you know. We we got our award.

[00:48:41]We were voted the best band, best upandcoming band award. I wish I still had that. I don't know where the [ __ ] it is. Probably in in the uh in the in the jacket or andor Shireen's attic somewhere, but u I wish I had it on the wall behind me so I could pretend I have a gold record. So, uh, yeah. So, um, and we ended up land, uh, Oh, yeah. So, we ended up landing a gig at, uh, opening up for Debbie Gibson. That's right, Debbie Gibson. I don't know why the [ __ ] we were opening up for Debbie Gibson, but it was a It was a big show.

[00:49:19]It was a big deal. And so, the night comes, tomorrow is the gig. We're practiced. We're [ __ ] ready. I mean, we practiced like I we practiced we did this at like three or four times a night and like five days a week, six days a week, seven days a week. I I think we were like seven days a week because that's all we wanted to do. Like I didn't want to take off practice. None of us did. You know, back then you're hungry. We go to practice the night before. We're all ready to [ __ ] go.

[00:49:45]And last thing he says to us is don't go out because we need to get up early for get down there, pack our [ __ ] get down there for bring the stage. No, I'm just kidding. and the [ __ ] milk crate stage. Uh, and so, you know, we need to we need to be fresh in the morning. We need to soundcheck and, you know, be there at whatever time and uh and and be be on and and we're all like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." So, we all go home and um and so the uh the next morning I get a phone call. It's Brian Freriedman and he's like, "No, listen. Uh something happened and um something happened and uh and I was like [ __ ] you. You know I he's [ __ ] with me. You know you know you're not going to do this today of all days. He's like no I'm dead serious. You need to come to the hospital. I can't remember what hospital. Probably Brian uh general something happened to less.

[00:50:48]Um, so yes, uh, so turns out what happened, uh, turned out what happened was some [ __ ] pieces of [ __ ] uh, gay bashers, they call them, he he went to the Copa a after disobeying his own rule of not going out. He went to the Copa and which is the like the gay bar in Florida.

[00:51:15]totally fun place to go. Even if you're not gay, like going there is fun. Um, what happened was these pieces of [ __ ] uh targeted him because, you know, he was little guy. He was shorter than I am and skinny and you know, so he was clearly an easy target for a [ __ ] [ __ ] And so, uh, they proceeded to, I guess, assault him and his friend. his friend. There was a very it was a controversy about him running, you know, running away and not helping less. But, you know, you can't you can't criticize somebody in that situation because you're not there. Your life isn't in danger. You know, they probably had no chance to fight these guys in the first place. Um, you know, they probably were not armed. Um, so anyway, uh, they ended up uh you know uh smashing his head against the car and he went into a coma and uh so that's how we we arrived at the uh at the uh hospital and he was and it it it was it was very dist my first my first experience with death you know I was 16 I believe uh yeah I was 16 at the time cuz it was early 87 um it May 9th, I believe. And uh yeah, May 9th is when that happened. The night the early morning hours. And so, uh I think he lingered for a couple days and they called us and uh they were like, "You need to come say goodbye." Um, so we did and yeah, so that was that was the end of Lick City Generation basically Gen 2 uh which which was less me, Brian and uh and uh Sean.

[00:53:20]Uh so we were kind of, you know, the management's like, "Well, what are you going to do? What do you want to do?

[00:53:25]this this pretty much nullifies our contract, you know, if you want it to. And, you know, we're we're 16 years old.

[00:53:35]As coarse as it may sound, that's not going to stop us. The death of somebody, unless it's me who writes the songs, is not going to stop us, you know, and and it sounds horrible, but it it it's how every band is, you know. Metallica. Can you imagine if Metallica stopped when, you know, uh Cliff Burton passed away?

[00:53:54]You know, that would be ridiculous. So, let's just take a break and, you know, see what I should mention beforehand is that we already had the Cameo gig booked. It was our first big [ __ ] gig. It was the Cameo Theater, which is like the place to play in Miami in South Florida in general, unless you're going to the Sportiatorum.

[00:54:18]The Cameo Theater was like that was like a dream. So we had that that gig and we were still we were already postering for we already flying for we were rehearsing for you know preparing etc. We had our milk crates ready and we used them um us in those [ __ ] milk crates. So we were kind of like okay let's just take a minute and um and and just kind of regroup. Now, this happened, like I say, in May May 9th. The cameo gig was May 30th.

[00:54:52]So, we had about 2 weeks after the whole process was ended.

[00:54:57]Um, you know, to to figure out what we were going to cancel it, are we going to go do it? Who's who's going to sing? You know, I I wasn't able to sing at that point. I just did backing vocals. I was not even close to being able to sing.

[00:55:14]So, we looked around, looked around and found this guy named Jeffrey David, which is his middle name. I don't even know what his last name is, but Jeffrey David is all you need to know. So, we found him and he he absolutely great singer, perfect singer, could hit the notes and the ones he couldn't, he could hit a low register of one octave down and still strong, you know. Uh, so there we have Lick City Gen 2, which is Chris, Jeffrey, David, Sean, and Brian. And uh, so we already had the opening bands, this band called New Impact, and needless to say, we didn't play the Debbie Gibson gig, which was a shame.

[00:56:00]Uh, so we had New Impact and Young Turk.

[00:56:02]Young Turk was pretty darn popular, uh, as well. They were Miami Gahi scene.

[00:56:09]um crazy bunch of guys. They were they were nuts. Uh yeah, so the gig um played the cameo gig. Um he didn't even know the words. He just faked his way through it most of it. Uh he he could hear the melodies in his head and I think that's pretty much what he went by, you know. And so um yeah, played it was it was good. You know, we didn't pack it. I think Jack and Shireen thought we were going to pack the place, which is absurd. I don't I don't know what the seating is, but it's, you know, maybe like 10 thou 5,000 maybe. I I don't know what it is. It's like a old time theater. So, it's one of those. has got the upper floors and but it was um what I thought was really odd was that um Jack and Shireen made this big like and you can see it in I think in some of those pictures at chrisgimmons.com those pictures there you'll see a picture of Les because we wanted to honor him and we had a moment of of reflection with you know there of course and um and whatnot. And uh but there was it was a big uh hard frame or what do you say when you attach it to cardboard, you know, a corrugated or a foam board, you know, so it was it was professionally mounted on foam board, so it was stiff. It wasn't a rollup poster anymore. It had Lex his cuz he went by Lex looks, by the way.

[00:57:33]And so his real name was Les Juan.

[00:57:36]And so, uh, and we hung it on the above everything, you know, just as he watched over us or whatever, you know, whatever.

[00:57:45]So, um, but the [ __ ] bizarre his parents came down from China. I No, I don't I don't know if they came in from China or if they came in from New York City. Maybe they were from New York. I feel like they came from China, but that doesn't make sense. Uh, I could be wrong.

[00:58:01]>> But I don't know whose [ __ ] idea what this was, but it wasn't mine. or I think it was Jack and Shireen. They were always full of wild ideas, but they um they uh they had us all sign this hard mounted poster and give it to his parents, which you know, first of all is bizarre.

[00:58:23]Second of all, how what are they going to [ __ ] do with this thing? Like if it was a rollup poster, okay, yeah, you roll it up and you could stick it wherever you put your stuff, but it was I don't know how how would they fit in their car like on the way home from the cameo, you know what I mean? Like cuz they came to the show and so it it was I I think about it every now and then and uh I cringe. It's one of those things you're like why did I allow this to happen? But uh and so but yeah, it was it was wild. We actually ended up I feel this is another one of these cringey things like we kind of like took over Les's apartment cuz he lived there part time with his boyfriend Brad who was [ __ ] great guy. I love this guy. Um and he you know what's weird though?

[00:59:08]like in the '8s like we were persecuted for having by other bands and and and and really even venues uh of having a gay singer. Like this is the artist community. This is the musicians.

[00:59:22]It's like this is where the one place that you think and it would be the island of salvation from such [ __ ] you know, but we even the other bands they didn't they they they didn't like us because we had a gay singer and and and they were like a lot like Rated X in particular, they would [ __ ] always rag on us for having a gay singer. And I'll tell you actually a fun story about less. And if do you know what chaps are?

[00:59:47]They are like cowboy pants with the ass hanging out with there's no ass, it's just leggings. And Les had this idea that he was going to go on stage in these chaps with his [ __ ] ass hanging out. And uh I didn't care cuz I let Les do whatever the hell he wants cuz he was like to me he was like the art king and I love that. Like I'm an Andy Warhol guy. Like I love the art guys, you know?

[01:00:10]And he was an art guy. He was an art king and I love him for it. And so Less Less was an art guy and I loved him for it. And uh so whatever. Brian Freeman was like, "I will not go on stage with you with your [ __ ] ass hanging out of those things." And I believe there might be a picture on that website of him.

[01:00:29]He's behind and he's got his pink tights on cuz he gave in and wore the pink tights over over his ass with these [ __ ] chaps. But, uh, >> when Les wasn't performing or wasn't on stage, can you just quickly describe just who he may have been on a regular Tuesday afternoon? Just who who Les was then?

[01:00:52]>> The same less is at practice, the same less is at stage. He was he was a he was a he was a a personality, you know. He was a force. He was a personality and hilarious and and everything he did he did with style and and gusto you know and uh you know he was we always went on crazy adventures to you know stores and he was always doing he would go to the stores and turn their [ __ ] upside down too like if they had a a picture in a frame it would be upside down you know it he was he was a personality man and he would less was less no matter where he was and I admire that. Um, and I I I always strove to be that way. And years later, my friend Charles Wheelis, who was who was always good to me, and we can bring him up uh with uh Slamire's album, my first real album in 1991 when we're there. Um, he was talking to a girlfriend of mine and they he said he was re he was uh telling me about this conversation. He's like, "Yeah, you know, I was we were talking about how Chris is always Chris." like he there's no pretense. It's like Chris is and I I was so proud of myself at that point. I remember feeling pride because and I associate that with less because like less was [ __ ] less and if you didn't like it, you can [ __ ] off and that's how I you know that's and that's how I've always lived my life and that's one of the things I can attribute to him as well. You know, Chris is Chris and if you don't like it, [ __ ] you. There may not have been an actual album that was released, but there were demos that did eventually see the light of day. Perhaps you could just talk a little bit about just that experience, Chris, with those demos, where they were recorded, and just some memories you may have of those experiences as well.

[01:02:36]>> Yeah. Yeah. I was always recording demos in my parents' room. You know, you can imagine little Chris cross-legged with his guitar back in the days where you could just hit [ __ ] record and it recorded as opposed to setting up a bunch of [ __ ] and by the time you get set up to record now you're you're out of creativity. But yeah, the first uh we did with Nasty in fact in Caesar's uh rehearsal area and we used those extensively in getting our songs out getting and they were my demos were kind of like popular among among the Dennis among the uh the uh the South Florida scene Kanye Shenti if you will. And so uh you know everybody had them. I made covers for them and little little a lot of people still have them and they'll be like, "Hey, look what I found, you know." Um, and so we had those. I still have them. And then I have I actually sell them on uh I don't know if they're on B I think they're on Band Camp actually. If you go to my discoraphy, uh you can find them and I I Yeah, I did actually. I put like I think I have this 86 and 87 Lake Cities. Um which is I think and maybe 88. I think there's some Jeff on there too with 88 which are the best sound because my my skills at recording you know uh got got better. Um but yeah, we've distributed them. We did not record in a studio unhappily. I wish we could have uh you know what none of my bands ever had professional recordings but uh but yeah though so those demos uh are pretty much all Lake City had um in terms of of of recordings unhappily.

[01:04:13]I was still kind of writing like glam, but it it wasn't anymore. I was going way different. I was like the John Lennon thing, you know, how like they were all poppy and then he kind of went off the [ __ ] rails. I was I was I was going down that slope, you know, cuz you can't do the same thing all the time, you know, obviously. And and Glam admittedly is although, you know, we kind of had a different take on it. We didn't sound like the any of the other glam, you know, my stuff was different.

[01:04:40]But yeah, so Brian quit and uh one of my best friends in the world's Carl Stangle and he passed away. Uh he he and Billy Alman. So we uh Billy was a drummer and so we got he was like, "Fuck yeah, you know, I'm I want to get into something." So and he was always he was always out to shows, you know, and stuff. Um you know, they're very he was always very supportive. And so Billy Elman ended up being our drummer.

[01:05:09]So, um, you know, and he he he was he was good because he was he was a good drummer, but he also allowed me to shape his drumming, which really I think made our music better when it came to doing u cuz before but in Lick City he would just do Brian's parts and then as he evolved and I helped him evolve into drumming, you know, because I'm not a drummer. So having somebody shape your drumming who isn't a drummer makes for interesting stuff you know and he had a lot of really good he had again shaky timing which sucks but other than that his drummer he was like the best drummer. He was so [ __ ] creative and good and just did like you always like he we clicked like he I imagined something and if he didn't do you know I I would tell him and or he would just do it like he just knew what sounded cool and different you know and um and I think being different ended up hurting us in the long run but uh we can get into that. So played a bunch of shows.

[01:06:06]Uh Lick City, same same places, you know, play Pen Summers, Button, and whatnot. And but you know, and and we played with Jeff. We had an office. My mom worked at a she at an office in on uh Ravenswood and Sheridan Street, I believe. It was like a big office complex. Probably still is, I would imagine. And uh she she she knew the owner and he let us play there after hours. And uh it was a it was turned into a den of debauchery as you can imagine cuz at that point we were getting into harder and harder drugs.

[01:06:41]And um and and I don't talk about drugs lightly because they're not [ __ ] cool. They ruined my life for over 30 years. And I I you know I had fun and I had some great experiences, but I I deeply regret wasting so much of my life on on on [ __ ] like the drinking and drugs and and >> I think one of the ironies to call out too is on one of the flyers that you shared with me, Chris, where you all played Hallover Beach, it was a rockers against drugs show. We did cocaine before that show. We were on cocaine that show as a matter of fact. And this I have in my notes to actually to mention that. I forgot. But uh yeah.

[01:07:29]Yeah, we were um um yeah, we were we were definitely ptheads, you know, of course. And definitely I was a drunk. I didn't have a chance. Like I started when I was 15 and with this guy named Cliff Moss who unfortunately I offended back later in life. And I I feel Cliff, if you're listening to this, please forgive me. I I didn't mean to offend you and I am deeply deeply sorry, but he was a good guy. But he turned me on to weed. And I remember I remember the first time he smoked weed. I remember being in a dream and I got scared because I couldn't get out of it. Like it was I felt like I was dreaming and it was a terrifying experience. But uh and then this guy Matt, he turned me on to it was called he called it chocolate, but it was uh measculine, which is like LSD. And that was in Pines's middle school. Um, and I loved it. It was like uh it was I guess like a trip, you know, I guess. And uh I didn't do LSD till a little later with Pat, as a matter of fact, the first time. But um but yeah, you know, and I was a drunk even before that because we would this guy Mike Caposi, he he his parents were really rich. His parents were so rich. I think they bought three houses on a culde-sac and attached them. I think his dad was in the mob, I'm pretty sure, cuz he did go away. But he spoiled us and they didn't care, man. They had beer in the fridge and they didn't care what the kids do and it was always kids around and we were always drunk, you know, and so I was I had no I had no chance, you know. So I was an alcoholic at 15 years old, a pthead at 15 years old, you know, and cocaine at 16 17, you know, and blah blah blah. So it sucks and I don't I'm not proud of it. I say it as a warning if any or as a story really to anything else. But it's >> when the when the 90s came around, did you slow it down as far as that or did you >> I never >> I didn't slow down until I was in my 40s.

[01:09:22]>> So it got >> Let's talk about that that transition now because we came from the 80s, right?

[01:09:29]And as even looking through a lot of the photographs that you had shared, even the ones that are on your site, you can see this shift not just musically, but also aesthetically just from the way that you were dressing, the way that the the decade and now shifted. So talk about that. Just what was it like being Chris G. Simmons as the '9s came around and what were you doing musically once Lick City wrapped up?

[01:09:55]Well, we would have to go honestly to the 88 still because we're still at Billy. Okay. And we're in gen uh gen Gen 4 Lick City Gen 4 1988. We got Chris, that's me, by the way. Uh Jeffrey David, the singer who did our cameo shows, Billy, the new drummer, and Sean Strain. Okay. So, and we were doing shows and blah blah blah. And uh and but like my writing was starting to shift like big time. We I was gone. I mean we had this like the song one song called All the Time which was like an acousticy song and and it it just it it didn't work. Like we couldn't play Glam and I didn't even give a [ __ ] about Glam. I was like I was done playing Glam years, you know, a year probably before this. I just I didn't write it anymore, you know? We had we I had my Glam [ __ ] and that was that was the end. So I was getting shifting more into that and that's where Lick City kind of went. So Lick City was still existing. We were still playing as Lick City, but we were playing the new stuff and I but and I was not only did I have my Lick City stuff, but I was always writing writing writing. Um >> 88 was my most productive year. And I didn't even realize it, but like uh I have a book called Songs of Love and Drugs, which is which I wrote. It's It's all my songs up to 93, I think. And um and I what I did was I wrote this because a I want I couldn't like remember any of my stuff, you know, because drugs. And uh and two, I realized I could copyright all of my lyrics in one go by by putting them on a [ __ ] book. So I did. And I I realized because and I you know I I had also started going this is later on. I I think I wrote this in 2006 or something or 2016 I can't remember but uh I was going I was remastering all my demos from the 80s and and and whatnot. And I realized like I wrote like 80 songs and like 60 plus of them are in this book with word the ones with words are in this book. I was like in one year, you know, I wrote like [ __ ] almost a hundred songs that year. And uh but yeah, that was my most productive year, 88. And so yeah, we played the shows, played the shows, and the music shifted and um eventually Jeffrey I think well he was like he was a construction worker and I think we took up a lot of his time. Um but so he quit. Um so so much for generation what? Yes. Uh generation four. That was the end of that. So then uh Sean quit, ended up quitting too. He was he he didn't like the shift, so he quit. So it was just me and Billy at that point. Uh which doesn't make much of a band, but we we still played anyway. Like me and him played in the We had the office, we had a little PA system. Um and then my buddy Pat, who I mentioned that I met in high school, he we again we were we were brothers and everybody thought we were brothers.

[01:13:01]And so, uh, I don't even know. I don't know if he played bass yet or if I can't remember. He probably did. I I guess. I honestly don't know. He plays guitar, too. But, um, so we were just like got Pat and uh, so it was me, Pat, and Billy. And, uh, I think that was it. Oh, yeah. So, we were threepiece at that point. So anyway, uh we're in the office, the office of debauchery, and uh basically it was just drug doing, you know, uh we played and we played a lot like we play and we we cultivated this the songs and uh we ended up getting uh my good friend Rob Diaz, who I we are close friends to this day and I love him deeply and dearly. He's a great great man and his wife is too. Well, great woman. So, uh, he he is an excellent singer. So, he was the backup singer.

[01:13:56]Um, and actually, let me bring you bring you back to 88. We did a show as Lake City with Jeffrey. It was one of our last shows. In fact, we did the Button South, which was kind of a big deal to play the Button South. That was like a venue. They didn't let just anybody play.

[01:14:12]Everybody was there, our parents, our friends. It was like going to be our big show. We looked great. It was it was it was going to be great.

[01:14:22]And we play I come out and we play a song or two. I don't even know. And I break a string. I don't have a backup. I wasn't a professional then. I was just a [ __ ] idiot. I don't think any of us had backup guitars. So I [ __ ] So I run backstage and just grab somebody's guitar. Okay, which is A is crazy obviously. B I didn't know anybody. I didn't know whose guitar it was. I didn't know even if I didn't even know who was playing with us. Um I just open this guy's [ __ ] case, take his guitar, which is tuned. We didn't even tune like to that. Back then I never I tuned to a dial tone like way back when you'd pick up a phone and it would go.

[01:15:03]So I thought that was E and that's how I would tune my I never had a tuner. So our our our E we were never tuned A440.

[01:15:11]It was however my guitar was tuned.

[01:15:13]That's what we tuned. So, I had to go through the rigma roll of So, I grab this guy's guitar, untune it to whatever [ __ ] wacky tuning we were at, and we start to play. And I make this one of this this still haunts me, this this decision. Um, because we're Lick City still, we play rock and roll, but we had I was we were transitioning to my new stuff and a lot of it was really mellow.

[01:15:39]And there was this one song called After Denise that we played. And uh shout out to Denise Hecker. And so uh so we're like we're like what's what do we what do we play? What do we play? And I was like just do after Denise. Now big mistake number one. I have a singer here, a front man. He doesn't sing that song. I sing that song. B I sing like a dead cow. Okay. C it's slow. So we're going to lose the audio. We should not have even had that on our set list. And when I think about it, it bothers me.

[01:16:08]Like even now I'm like, "Oh god." It's like one of those things that just it'll it'll never go away. Like when I'm dying, it'll probably be the last thing I think about. And so we we start to play it and here comes the owner of the guitar on stage walking out. [ __ ] And he's like yelling at me and [ __ ] I was like, just [ __ ] chill out, chill, blah, blah. So he ends up letting me use the guitar and we play this [ __ ] song and it's so bad. It was It was the worst gig I've ever played. It was actually the only bad gig ever play and I look over to the stage manager and he's like one like last song you're it and so we we ended up playing uh whatever whatever song but that was that was a a a nightmare and everybody's got one you know everybody's got the nightmare kick and that was that was with Jeffrey anyway so he ended up quitting so we got we're with Billy and Pat we're three piece now with Rob because Rob was kind of uh part-time he had a real job you know he owned an insurance company I think so but Um and uh that kind of gave way uh evolved that was in into what was the vagues but we spent years [ __ ] around like from 80 to to 90 to I think I think I don't even think we were the vagues to like 90 91 maybe so there was a lot of [ __ ] around at the time you know um not accomplishing much but we practiced we were like crazy we practiced constantly like it's like what we like to do get [ __ ] up and play.

[01:17:36]>> How did the scene change at that point when the vague started?

[01:17:40]>> Well, you know, of course, they had the transition from glam to Guns and Roses, I think, was the thing. So, everybody at that point was was Guns and Roses with cowboy boots. And in fact, there's a flyer on that website, the interview site, and it says on the back of it, it says the Lick City guarantee. And it's hilarious because we take all of the [ __ ] that's, you know, no head, no gypsy headbands, no cowboy boots, like all this [ __ ] It's kind of funny. And that was on the back of our flyers, all of our flyers for a while. And it was kind of like a smack in the face to that um to that stupid crap. But uh because we were after the glam phase, we weren't anything. We were just us, you know, like we didn't follow any trends, you know? We were just we just did what we did. and and I certainly didn't didn't let you know current trends influence to to a to to for the most part you know u I didn't let trends in I I I don't think in trends I just think in art and it comes to me and that's that's that I have no control over what I create it's like a bodily function you know I I just create it I'm I'm not responsible so um yeah and so uh and so like 1991 I was making my own albums and So, uh, I I recorded my first actual like album in a studio in 1991, uh, called Slamires, the cactus killing EP, and it was basically it was pretty influenced by the my life with the Thrill Kill cult, who was actually a pretty good influence on me.

[01:19:09]Um, uh, but and oh, in 1990, I went to an art school, if you will. It was like the art institute or fullale, if you know what I mean. But it was down in um South Beach. So I got to hang out a lot in South Beach and it was and we were playing at the time we were playing in a warehouse in Hyia. So I think it was the beginnings of the vagues at that point.

[01:19:33]But uh so yeah um and so we were playing in this in this warehouse uh in Halia.

[01:19:39]me Pat.

[01:19:42]Um I don't I guess Jimmy I don't remember for some reason I don't remember him being I think we were three-piece at that time. I think it was me, Pat, and Billy cuz we were three-piece for a long time and in at intervals because we played together for a long time. We were together for like seven years or something. Um and we came up with a lot of the a lot of the stuff. Um, a lot of the songs, um, I'm trying to think and and you know what we a lot of these songs that we played I don't even have recorded. So 91 goes into '92. The vague. So 92 somehow we got Jimmy, but first we recorded um this. I I just I got a better drum machine. It was more realistic. So I recorded a three song demo. uh sold it at Uncle Sam's. It was all me, but nobody else needed I put I still would just put their names on like Pat and Billy and stuff, but I I did it cuz I didn't need anybody. So, um and we got AirPlay on KPX, the radio station. I don't know if they still have that. It was like a college radio station.

[01:20:43]>> It was uh 88.5 was Piper High School.

[01:20:47]>> Yeah. Oh, college. Okay. Piper. Yeah.

[01:20:49]Yeah. Yeah. So, that was that was instrumental for so many of us, you know. Uh they were they were good to us um to everybody. um is what I mean. Um so yeah, we got got some airplay on that and I don't know how we got Jimmy.

[01:21:02]Actually Carrie Peak's episode educated me on how we got Jimmy because I can't remember. I was I was still [ __ ] up at the time. So uh but we got Jimmy and Jenny is he's he's it's funny because he was like he was he was kind of like the antithesis to the rest of us cuz he was like straight laced. He didn't do drugs. I don't even know if he drank. And you know, the rest of us were shitfaced at every night at practice and smoking and drinking and whatnoting and and he was not, you know, he I and but [ __ ] great guitarist, man. He's one of the he is probably the best guitarist I've ever I've played with ever.

[01:21:39]Better than me, that's for sure. And so we got to him and I I actually feel bad about the Carrie thing. I didn't know about his car accident. I didn't know, you know, that Jimmy quit during that that that that that tragic time or anything like that because I was we knew Carrie, but I I I didn't we weren't like friends friends like we are now like or or we were later. Um and so um but yeah, and so we and it's funny actually there was there was a guitar so we were trying out guitarists because we didn't want to be a three-piece. I wanted to sing. I didn't wanna I didn't want to play guitar except for part-time and so um we're we're looking for guitarist guitarist and I I it was u I don't know what we used I don't know Craigslist was around was there internet then I don't remember uh but however we got this guy there was this guy and we went through many of them but >> you used to go to you used to go to you used to go to the music stores and pull down the little tabs >> oh the tabs okay >> I don't know I don't know if that's how you did it but that's how I remember a lot of bands looking for people. They they would have these little uh tabs you can pull from and the phone number would be there. Yeah.

[01:22:54]>> The our version of the internet. Yeah.

[01:22:56]We probably did that. I I would imagine and and we were, you know, known then.

[01:23:01]So, it was probably easier. That's why we had so because in my journals I see that I I see that we're going through a lot of people and we're now we're playing in a warehouse in well off Orange Drive and it's it's in a kind of a sketchy part of town. Uh there's a lot of bands there. Poser played there. Uh Keith Bowman Roger and uh the guy a guy named Rich Headley. So they played there. Naked Rhythm was right next to us. We actually were in Naked Rhythm.

[01:23:31]They moved out of our place and it was cool because our place had a full front uh had a door like a a swinging door, not just a so it had like a window and a door and then beyond that was the the warehouse door. So you could put the AC in the door like a normal house, you know. It was great. It was a great place to to we locked out and then they ended up moving. They were next door to us. Uh they played and then um um so we all played there. It was it was it was like a little scene in in itself. So, but yeah, we played the vagues. Uh, but we were actually the chemicals first. And I think that was that was how we got on KPX was the chemicals, which is a stupid name, but we had a [ __ ] ton of names.

[01:24:12]Uh, I still have the lists and I just we just couldn't couldn't come up with anything.

[01:24:16]>> Did they all have the word 'the' in front of it?

[01:24:19]>> It's funny. Yeah, I'm a verythe, you know, [ __ ] a. Uh, but I I don't know.

[01:24:24]But technically I write the vagues but and sometimes in the posters we'll put the vagues but it was in our minds it was vagues. I do believe the Nikki Taylor started in 92 like late 92.

[01:24:40]Um so it was Jimmy had quit. I don't know why Jimmy quit. I can't even remember why but but he was great. Jimmy was a great great guitar player and uh we we lamented his leaving. That's for sure.

[01:24:53]Um, yeah. So, that was the end of the Vagues.

[01:24:56]>> Yeah.

[01:24:57]>> And, uh, we do have we there is one album of the vagues that you buy and it's that you can buy or listen to. You can stream it. I don't think it's on streaming platforms, but it is on Band Camp where you can stream it for free and I've mastered it and made it sound as best I can. Um, and it's just a Ghetto Blaster recording of rehearsal.

[01:25:16]And then if you buy it, there's I think four bonus tracks of the some of the same songs, but I'm playing it. It was after Jimmy left and I was playing guitar on them. Um I don't know. I don't think you can see those. Um if you look at the page, but they're there if you buy it. So, and that's all the vague stuff that we have recorded. Uh that's a close close to an album we have. And I named it Live in Amsterdam. Uh and it did I didn't even put it out until like um it says 1992, but I didn't I didn't release it until years later. I think >> what was the connection with the title?

[01:25:53]None. I just I liked it because it it made it look like we were live in Amsterdam, but it was a little subtrauge there. So, >> um Wow. You played in Amsterdam.

[01:26:05]Read read the cover. So, u Yeah. So, that was the end. That was the end of the Yeah. For the next project, you kept the but decided to go with a different name, I would say, in this instance, uh, the Nikki Taylor. So, I think it's a great place to just start there. How did the band get its name?

[01:26:28]>> I I don't know. Um, I know we all wanted to I all I know we want we it was kind of a group effort and I don't know who came up with the actual name and it might have been a a a a a uh a amalgam of all of us cuz I think there was a band called uh who is the girl with black hair and she was gothic and she was associated with Johnny Depp and she was on like the Beetlejuice movies. I don't know.

[01:26:59][ __ ] >> the Winona Riders.

[01:27:02]>> Yes, there was a band called the Winona Riders.

[01:27:04]>> They were a punk They were a punk band.

[01:27:06]>> Okay. So, I think that probably was an influence of it. And Pat's sister went to school with Nikki Taylor's sister.

[01:27:15]They went to the same high school that we did, just later, of course. And um so um I that I think probably how that whole thing got started. Um and and then you know it was kind of an issue when after her sister had passed away. I remember there kind of being like should we do this should we not do this you know but I think it was established at that point. So there's not you can't really you can't you can't accommodate other people you know depending you know obviously it's depending on the situation but you can't accommodate your art to other people that's not what art is about at all actually it's quite the opposite you know so um in any case um yeah so the uh uh yeah so the Nikki Taylor and then we start we start and we played a lot of the stuff from the vag still um a lot of the like hanging There's a song called Hanging which is on the Crawling with Cops album. I think I'm going to redo another version of it too. The Crawling with Cops album is actually if it's I released I recorded it in 2016 and it's got a bunch of of classics. I even put a couple Lick City songs on there. Uh Lick Susie Susie is on there and a girl who just one of the the best singer I've ever worked with the top two singer best singers I've ever worked with Claire. She sang lead on that and she sang lead on Picture Perfect which is a Lick City song as well. Uh check those out. They're they're fun and they it was my when I the first time I had a professional studio in my house. Yeah, we played around all all the places. Plus five I think I have on my list here. Uh Plus Five Squeeze of course that was like our place. Uh the reunion room, Rose Buds.

[01:29:01]Uh those are some good shows. played the play the edge a bunch of times too.

[01:29:06]>> Played the edge. Uh we actually played with Johnny not Johnny Depp. Uh who's the other Johnny Depp? Uh Keanu Ree, but we opened up for his dog star in fact.

[01:29:18]>> Um uh we opened up for the Collapsing Lungs. Collapsing Lungs.

[01:29:25]We opened up for them at plus five. And I don't know who the [ __ ] set us up with this show, but it it couldn't have been more idiotic. Okay, we were poppy kind of stuff. Collapsing longs is that [ __ ] industrial metal crap that was popular back then. And so they we opened up for it was like us, Jack Off Jill, which already is is you don't that's not a it's not a good lineup. And then uh uh the the collapsing lungs and so they [ __ ] hated us as you can imagine. It was it was our worst Nikki Taylor's game. Zero applause except for when I told them it was our last song.

[01:30:06]At which point I said just for that we're playing this [ __ ] song again.

[01:30:10]And I I made them I I made the band play the last song we just played twice just to piss off the audience in fact. But it was all [ __ ] like skin heads. And I remember one [ __ ] [ __ ] skin head telling me, "We're going to kick your ass. There's going to be a race war after this [ __ ] after the show." And I'm looking out at the audience, okay?

[01:30:30]And it's all white people. And I'm like, "Okay, one of the basic criteria for a race war is having two races, okay? It was all white people. Like, who who are you gonna fight, you [ __ ] idiot?" And so, uh, we got the [ __ ] out of there.

[01:30:46]But yeah. Yeah, we played all over Squeeze. We actually played a Christmas show. So the the the Nick uh the Nikki Taylor, we played the the Christmas show and like it was a bunch of local bands.

[01:30:56]You played two songs and gotten [ __ ] off, you know, and so we played Deep Depression and uh Dead by Christmas from Hanoi Rocks and that was a great show.

[01:31:07]You know, all the squeeze, you know, not not only were they great because all of our friends were and I think that's a problem with with a lot of like our shows. It's like you have your friends there, the core base, and then you know it's like you don't really get to appreciate, you don't really grow necessarily because it's all the same people there. They all know you, your friends. You don't get more and more and more people liking you. And you know, some do I guess you like Marilyn Manson, they exploded, but they're they're a completely different thing. But uh you know, but anyway, but so we always had our core there and they were always supportive. so supportive of us. And a lot of that is to do with Pat. Like Pat was the social butterfly of of the bunch. He knew everybody. Everybody Chris Chris wasn't even a factor. Like it was Pat was that band. We were popular because the name because she she sent us a letter a letter from her lawyer saying cease and desist, which I should have put on that website. [ __ ] I'll put it I'll I'll I'll find it and I'll put it up in the next day or two. So check out chris ggsimmons.com/in.

[01:32:11]I will put that letter up there. The Nikki Taylor letter. This was our bounce to popularity. Suddenly we were popular.

[01:32:18]Boom. All because of that. We played this show called uh this place called it was uh right next to Bob's News on Andrews Avenue in for right downtown Lauderdale. Uh Primal Screen is what it was called. I think the flyer's in there. I think it says major party on there on the flyer.

[01:32:37]We played with the stimulators which was Ni Kataya's band the guy from Finland boy was he a riot and uh us and it was just raw [ __ ] rock and roll and it was one stage in the middle of everybody so you were surrounded and all we played was the heavy [ __ ] songs but it was man that was rock and roll and we're surrounded everybody's [ __ ] cheering blah blah blah so um uh yeah so We played that show. It was [ __ ] awesome. And whatever. I think the next day or the day after that venue got a letter from Nikki Taylor's lawyer.

[01:33:16]Now, back backtrack two weeks, maybe a week or two beforehand. We're at Squeeze and we run into Nikki. A week before that, I'm working television uh for like a basketball game. I did like Miami Heat games and but I did a football game. I think it was a college game and they had Nikki Taylor come out of the field to flip the coin.

[01:33:37]I don't know. So, uh, and I was like, "Oh [ __ ] Nikki Taylor." I wanted to talk to her to tell her, "Hey, we have a band named after you." But anyway, like a week after that, we saw her at Squeeze. We ran into her Squeeze. So, we started rapping with her or whatever.

[01:33:52]And she was totally cool and we were like, "Yeah, our band, come see us.

[01:33:55]We're going to play at the Power Studio.

[01:33:58]Not Power Studio, the Primal Scream in next week. it's right here, you know, come see. She was like, "Yeah, yeah. Oh my god." She was totally into it.

[01:34:05]Totally cool. Um, and I was like, "Yeah, I just saw you flip a coin at the She's like, "Oh my god, that was so stupid. I can't believe they made me do that crap." She was [ __ ] like embarrassed.

[01:34:14]But, uh, so anyway, we played the show.

[01:34:19][ __ ] next day or the day after, letter from her lawyer arrives.

[01:34:22]Basically, cease and desist using her name or we're going to sue you, basically is the long and short of it. So immediately immediately we got that. It goes to the back of every flyer that we So all Nikki Taylor's flyers have that [ __ ] letter on the back. Thank you. Thank you. You know Feinstein and Feinstein associates because that you made us popular. We were on the radio like they were talking about us on the radio stage like the FM radio stations like the real ones. Like they were like all of them were on our side like leave these [ __ ] guys alone. they're just a local band, you know, blah, because we made a big stink of it, of course, you know, because you have to. That's that's that's what I learned from uh Talent Line International after we got back from New York. But uh so uh so >> and for the for those for those that may not be aware of this context, Nikki Taylor was a really well-known supermodel in the late 80s and 90s and still still known, but for those that may not be as familiar, may not have grown up in that era, you may not be as familiar with Nikki Taylor.

[01:35:29]>> Yeah. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, that's true.

[01:35:31]Yeah, she was a supermodel. She was the supermodel back then. And so, um, yeah, we thought everything would be cool, especially after talking to her, we thought it would be we would and and in my mind, I'm thinking marketing, like if we could get this girl to come to our shows, boy, it'll get more and more people, you get her fans to our shows, you know, that was that was kind of how I was thinking about it. So, uh, yeah, but it didn't turn out that way. So, uh, but yeah, thank you, Nikki, for that.

[01:35:59]So, yeah, we got And actually, I have my patented Nikki Taylor's guitar behind me right there. I put it out just for you.

[01:36:06]And it's it's got the if you see I don't know if you can see up close. It's a smiley face. Um everything is the same. There's a smiley face right here. I actually would wear it over my mouth, but then I ended up putting it on my guitar. And this is where it has resided for the past 30 [ __ ] years. A pair of my jeans on the back.

[01:36:28]So yeah, it's uh it's got major I can't believe a girl hasn't stolen that. I'm amazed. H yes that is a relic rock and roll relic of it. What are you gonna do?

[01:36:41]you had shared you had shared with me a flyer I had not seen before and I believe this show was in 93 at the plus five and I want to say it was right around the time Marilyn Manson dropped the spooky kids from the name and it was a show with Jack off Jill who you played with in other >> play with them too yeah >> and the Nikki Taylor so what do you remember from that show or just other show that you may have also played with Manson back in that era.

[01:37:16]>> I I think we we might have played with him twice. I I honestly don't remember cuz Pat was friends I was friends with Brad. Um because we've known each other because we're both from Hollywood. So I' I've known Brad since I was like 15. Um he was of the Hollywood scene. Him and like Brian Waters. Uh he who's actually kind of a celebrity out in LA now. you play with the the countdowns and the Flash Express and whatnot. I still we still talk on the phone. Um and uh so Brad, the original bass player, I was he was like I was closer to him. We had kind of a rift because at at towards the end because he I was playing with his his girlfriend if you know what I mean. And we were doing heroin and he started getting we he started getting mad at me. uh we we made up and after he moved to New York, unfortunately, he still got [ __ ] up on heroin in New York. So, I ordered like a $1,000 worth of art from him because I I have like the guy who does my album covers now, Vorhea Sanchez, like I licensed those for my covers and then I buy the actual original art from him.

[01:38:24]So, I have original art from like him and other artists. I like to collect like art, you know, unknown guys, you know, and he Vorha is [ __ ] amazing.

[01:38:33]Check him out. He is he's he's so good and just creative and you would think that he's AI. Like you look at the things like, "Oh, this is AI." No, he draws everything. But um but and of course I never got he just [ __ ] used bought drugs with the money I sent him and never sent me art piece one. So So the estate of Brad Stewart, you owe me $1,000 worth of art and I want it. God damn it. So that's my message to you.

[01:38:59]I'm gonna send you a letter from uh Feinstein and Feinstein from Nikki Taylor's. But uh so but yeah, I think so. But Pat was friend well Pat's friends with everybody because everybody loves Pat. But um and but I was closer to Brad and and to a lesser degree to Scott, the original guitarist. Both of them has passed now as you probably know. And then Steve. Steve and me had a weird relationship because we would we never really talked outside of like clubs, but when we did like we I remember once we were at Boom. It was the night I met Michelle St. Jean. In fact, we were at this place called Boom.

[01:39:36]It was uh [ __ ] Kim's Alley. It was like right where Kim's Alley Bar was, I think, in that same little area where uh I think it's where Suko Thai was. if you know, it's like Sunrise Boulevard and and US1, I think, right in that little conglomeration. Anyway, it was like a nightclub. I think that's where it was.

[01:39:56]I could be wrong. But, uh, and me and him, we all went out, Michelle Steen, who I just met that night and fell madly in love with. Uh, and him and I think Michelle St. Gene's girlfriend, we all went into my car and smoked a joint. And I remember all he did the whole time was [ __ ] like and then every time I'd ever see him, he would always just be complaining about something. And I always I always think whenever I think of Steve, you know, he was the keyboardist. I don't know their names, but I know their real names. I don't know their their fun names, but whatever he was, Gidget Gain or whatever. No, I think that was Brad, but uh always bitching like every I ran into them. I love that guy. I was like, "God, I love this guy. He's bitching constantly."

[01:40:36]Because I would join him. I'm like, "Hey, [ __ ] But yeah, so we played with him a couple times. I don't think we went over well with with those." I mean, the thing is I think that saved us is that we were friends with everybody in the audience because it was, you know, the same audience and people I've actually signed autographs people thinking I was Marilyn Manson. Uh I I remember one instance in uh Quick, not Quick Trip, that's Madison. Uh uh it was it's in Cooper City. There was a Wind Dixie and right next to it a ride aid. And me and my buddy Carl, we had this scam. We were poor. And so we had this scam where we would go to Raid, buy a six-ack of beer, go to the car, take the bottles out, but have the receipt and the box of beer in in the Raid bag.

[01:41:22]We'd walk into Wind Dixie, and there were no cameras then. And we'd fill up the beer with with full, you know, we'd fill up the empty box with beer and then walk out and just buy a paper. And then we would have a receipt to prove that we bought the beer. We would have the lady at the counter who could vouch for us that it was foolproof. And so we we got free beer from that all the time. And as a matter of fact, Brian Eer, the guitarist for the Nikki Taylor, ruined it because he chick he tried it one day and then he chickenened out and ended up taking the beer out of the bag at the counter and paying for it. And after that they they knew what we were doing.

[01:41:58]Uh thanks Brian. So, uh, but yeah. So, and so I ran into somebody there and they Marilyn Manson because I had straight dark mine was Black Cherry, my head, but it was same hair. We looked the same, you know, straight. I was like, Marilyn Manson. Marilyn Manson.

[01:42:13]And Carl's like, "Yeah, that's him." I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's me." I like, "Can I have an autograph? How can I?"

[01:42:18]So, I signed Marilyn M. I should have signed Chris G Simmons. That would have been hilarious. But, uh, yeah, it was Ryade where I I I I impersonated Marilyn Manson.

[01:42:28]But, uh, yeah. So, uh, but yeah, he Pat so Pat was more friends with not only Manson, but everybody more than me, period. So, he got us these shows. U So, we might have played once, we might have played twice. I don't think any more than twice with Manson.

[01:42:42]>> Who was the one creating a lot of the flyers for their Nikki Taylor?

[01:42:46]>> Me. I I did all of that crap. Um, I think Billy designed the very last one for the for the show after he quit. Um, he designed that flyer that that I do remember, but I did all of it because I was, you know, it was me. it was my vision and all that [ __ ] They probably didn't want to deal with it anyway. So, uh, you know, and I I miss those days where you, you know, you cut out [ __ ] from magazines and you pasted it all together and did the copies and it was like a whole experience. It was like a fun, it was like a a family outing, you know, uh, for a flyer outing, a flyerly outing.

[01:43:20]But, uh, yeah, those those concerts, the crowds were good, but again, it's a it's a mismatch. us playing with Meredith.

[01:43:26]It's two complete separate separate things, you know.

[01:43:31]>> What do you remember about what do you what do you remember about some of the local bands that you were sharing a stage with who were more in line with the Nikki Taylor?

[01:43:40]>> And you know what, and this is this was kind of like our problem. We weren't like anybody. And and I think we we fell into this gray area that where and and me and Pat talk about this to this day.

[01:43:52]In fact, that our music tended to go over everybody's heads because we had a lot of changes. We had a lot of offtime stuff and that's not what makes you popular. You know, you don't get popular. You get popular from chord progressions. People are familiar with repetition of choruses, which we did not do. And Carrie Peak would make fun of me for this, in fact. So, we I I don't think anybody ever really like got us, you know, and and and that's my fault because that's a it's my art. be. I didn't want to be that, you know. I I that's not who I am. It's not who I wanted to be. It's not who any of us wanted to be. You know, we were into playing music that was fun to play that we liked. And, you know, and I think it it goes back to to me as an artist, you know, which I which I take very seriously, you know, because that's all that I am. I'm a I am a failure at everything else. Like I I am nothing else but artist. And and I will I create and that's just what I do. and and and whether or not somebody listens to it or looks at it or sees it is immaterial to me, you know, and so we didn't care, you know, and that that hurt us and and you know, Pat knows it, I know it, and I would imagine Billy knows it, you know, and and unfortunately, you know, the way the band ended, uh it was uh it didn't end it didn't end good. um uh because it was my poor decision-m um I had some inappropriate relationships. But yeah, so that was the end of the Nikki Taylor.

[01:45:20]And you know what? Uh after, you know, because I had a lot of side things going on in my personal life that I hid from everybody. And those things kind of exploded after after the Nikki Taylor. Um that was kind of like that was the last band I played with. I didn't I just I kind of floated got heavier into drugs and alcohol and uh I just like would just get into myself and I would just listen to my music and and once me and Alicia and this guy Mark Stewart we were going to see the Ramones um at the Cam I think they were at the Cameo and we drove down there and when we got there I pulled a Chris Simmons which is I'm famous for this. I was like I don't want to go in.

[01:46:07]I was just so they went in and watched the Ramones and I just got stoned and sat in the car and listened to myself like listen to my demos and I was like the happiest happiest guy and I'm sitting there in in Mark Stewart's car.

[01:46:19]He was a great guy. I miss him. Um I hope he's doing okay. And this lady this Hispanic old Hispanic lady in a house dress in flip-flops comes like sliding up to the car and I'm like in the car stoned as [ __ ] listening to myself, you know.

[01:46:35]And uh she comes up to and she like starts hanging on the uh what's that thing called? The uh thing where you put coins in uh the parking meter and she starts like rubbing her and the wind is on her. So like the her house dress is like form fitting to her body and she starts pulls her dress up and starts like diddling herself and feeling her herself like her and and to looking at me like I don't know if maybe she was a prostitute or maybe that's I didn't I didn't understand any of that at the time like I was innocent. I was believeing I'm weirdly innocent but uh for a long time. But uh and then she stops all of a sudden and she looks at me and she goes I can't hear her but I can read her lips and she goes you scare me and she like slides off like welcome to Miami. Welcome to South Beach. But yeah, you know, just and so I spent the next decade or whatever recording uh recorded did a lot of like electronic stuff because it was everything I could.

[01:47:37]I stole everything from the net like drums. I would take drum loops and re-record them and make them distorted.

[01:47:43]And so I I invented a Paris Plague uh which has I think six albums now. Uh and it's all just like crazy electronic [ __ ] Glorious Dead. Um all this [ __ ] you can stream. Um, Paris Plague. Paris Plague is a lot of good stuff. I wrote a lot of that in Los Angeles when I moved out there for a while.

[01:48:01]>> You moved out of Florida uh quite a number of years ago, right? Is when you >> Yeah. Uh, moved out of Florida in 2002.

[01:48:09]One, 2001, 2002. Uh, moved to Chicago. I was actually heading back to LA with my two dogs. I got kicked out cuz I I I had an apartment in Fort Lauderdale and this girl, she bought a dog and then kicked her old dog out because they didn't get along, which I thought was kind of [ __ ] up. So, I took the dog in. So, I had Copek, who's a big ass pitbull and uh I took this dog in and uh they kicked me out of that apartment because they didn't allow that. And so, I was kind of homeless for a while. Uh then I my friend, another one of my friends let me live in her house. And so, I just I ended up leaving um with the two dogs. So, I like lived in my a car with two dogs. And I I don't recommend this at all. And I was going to go just move to LA and try one last time, you know, to uh to make it. But I ended up I was like, I want to see Chicago.

[01:49:01]And uh so I move I got there and I was like, wow, this is so much better. And I ended up just getting an apartment there and I lived there for 10 years. And uh tried to get some electronic places. I hooked up with some people, but I was so I was just really bad. uh my drug drugs and alcohol. I was at the point where I would just drink until I fell down. Like I physically could not drink anymore, you know. It was it was that and uh which is pathetic in my opinion. Um so I did get a good uh I wrote u and other tieres which was a lot of [ __ ] pulled from my journals um and then into story mode. So pretty much everything in and other tiraates.

[01:49:47]It's a great book. 2006 was was published and it was basically a [ __ ] you to political correctness was the whole point of it and so it was totally offensive which you know that's what art is and uh and but it was I I went so overboard with one particular aspect of it that it kind of overshadowed the writing u because it's a really good book and it's really interesting and and basically all the stories are true and I just I kind of embellished them to make them fictionalized you know, and and change names, of course, and stuff. So, I the it's in its third edition now, I think. And I took all that crap out that I think was overshadowing and I just left. So, like the the book that's available now that because you can't get the old ones anymore. Thank God. Um, it sold a lot though. It sold the first sold a lot and I I wish it didn't, but uh it's a really good book and it's it's it's it's fun and it's real and it's cool. So I wrote that in uh 2006 I believe and published it and uh whatnot.

[01:50:52]Um and just did a lot of electronic music electronic and then I ended up moving uh to Madison and moved to Madison and start um started the uh the terrible ifs. Um I actually did Crawling with Cops. That was a that's a conglomeration. I think there's like two new songs and then the rest is like old stuff. So it's kind of Florida oriented because it's all [ __ ] from like 87.

[01:51:15]There's like two glam songs as I told you um which are which are fun you know and it's fun it's kind of overproduced but it was my first foray into having a real studio um uh recorded that um and then started recording uh started the terrible actually the the poet burns no no yes stream which was the first terrible lips album was actually the second crawling with cops album and that's all classics I think that's all old stuff um redone but I I hate the name Crawling with Cops now. So I rebranded it. Um and um um yeah. So and then so the terrible stuff um and then that's what I do. Like the terrible is is my main project now.

[01:52:02]And it's it's basically me whining about Julie at this point. But it's she she is my muse and I'm just milking it for all it's worth, you know, because I get she gets me I get so creative over this girl it's completely insane. So, and I'm not going to stop. Obviously, I'm not going to to to inhibit. I can't I can't inhibit myself. I create and it happens and it's there. And I'm just doing something weird. I'm planting my flowers or my my vegetables because I have a vegetable garden and now and and uh here comes the song and it's written. I got to rush inside and record it on the recorder and get it down. And that's just that's my life now. just recording and uh you know being uh being sober but I was I was out of control you know and so and it's funny because when I quit I I smoked weed like every hour on the hour did coke I pissed away all of my money on drugs and it's weird because when you are an addict you I spent all my money on drugs and then when when it came time to pay rent I didn't have my rent and I couldn't figure out why it's like I have a [ __ ] job like I work at a snoody [ __ ] restaurant. I make a lot of money. What is going like why I can't pay my It never occurred to me that I'm spending thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars every month on beer, on weed, on cocaine, etc. Um it it sounds stupid and you don't believe it when I tell it to you, but it's it's the [ __ ] truth. You don't I didn't understand it. And it's not until a friend of mine, I started a business um doing advertising and I had to do my books when I realized, holy Christ, I'm spending $3,000 a month on drugs. And it all it all that was this the beginning of the end of the drugs. And it's funny because I was a weed smoker. It was part of my personality. It's who I was. And and and I just assumed I would always be like that. And I had a friend I was I was middlemaning in a drug deal and he had pounds and pounds of it and he was going to sell to my weed dealer ironically and but he was like, "Hey, I'll give you however much. I'll give you, you know, several ounces of weed if you can make this deal go through." So I did. I hooked him up. And uh that morning that he was supposed to show up, I think it was 200 2010, it was right before I had cancer uh surgery. I had had my kidney removed from cancer.

[01:54:29]>> And uh I think it was just before or just after that. And I woke up literally I stood sat up in bed and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I never smoked weed again.

[01:54:42]Like the day I was supposed to get like many many ounces of weed for free, I quit and I was like, I don't want it, you know, I'll do the deal. And then that is it. I never I never smoked again. And uh I was still an alcoholic, a raging one, which I credit my girlfriend and current best friend, uh Nick. We met in 2013. I live I had a house in Watertown, Wisconsin and I was out of control drinking and uh and uh I was so I was such a drunk I would go to the bar. Water town is very small. I went to a bar that was two turns from my house and I I was so drunk I got lost driving. I I I was so wasted I got lost and thank God a cop didn't because it's a small place. cut could have easily I had to pull over and map myself use Google maps to map myself home from a mile away. I was that it was that bad. So >> every every now and then somebody is put in she was put in my life for a reason.

[01:55:44]Like that was the path. Remember the path we were talking about hours ago >> and she was there. I'm grateful to her because I would probably still be I would probably still be there although I shouldn't underestimate myself but you know but yeah. So, you know, and it's the the two greatest days of my life were a quitting drugs and weed especially, and two, quitting drinking is like the two best days of my entire life, bar none. And I'm so grateful to to I don't I'm not a religious person, but it wasn't me who quit weed. It's just I don't know who did it, but thank you. And then the the drunkenness for Nick, I owe her my life probably. I want to thank you, Chris, for taking the time to really unpack the journey, going back to the earliest beginnings to where things are present and really focusing in on those Florida years. So, really great stuff. And as we get ready to close things out, I would love to give you the last word. any final thoughts you'd like to share to the folks out there both checking this episode out on YouTube but also listening to it? The floor is yours to take us home.

[01:56:59]>> Well, first of all, thank you Jeff uh for having me. I I was always ever since I've been watching this show, I've been jealous of everybody uh on it. And as soon and when Carrie uh Carrie's show, I was like, "Okay, I I need to be on this, you know, and Carrie actually contacted So, thank you Carrie Peak as well. And everybody watch his episode because it's great. Um, he he actually bugged me about it and I was like and like I'm kind of stupid like it's it's pride oriented or ego oriented but like he's like you should get in touch with this guy you know because we talked about his show and you know he's like yeah get in touch with him dude because I think other people have told him about you and you you have come up in a couple conversations and blah blah blah. So I was but and I wanted to contact you but I was just like I feel like like hey will you have me on your show like I felt like a dick so I didn't and then so one day he just was like you know uh did you contact Jeff yet? And I was like no I told him I was like I just feel embarrassed you know and he said then then you know what happened. He's like he he text he texted a three-way text. He's like Jeff Chris Jeff introduce yourselves. Bye.

[01:58:14]And the rest, as they say, is history.

[01:58:16]So, yes, I'm grateful to you and to to Carrie uh for having me on. Um because it I think I have a good story and there's a lot of stories that I've of course missed and people that I that I missed that I and that I wish I could have included. And and I would like to say to people watching this, if you know me and have known me, that, you know, I've hurt a lot of people in my day because I was a very selfish little [ __ ] and I didn't think about other people's feelings. So, like, you know, to to my two bandmates, you know, and I want to name them, but I and I'm everybody who's listening knows, but I just I I don't want to be disrespectful because the whole thing is disrespectful, but to you, to both of you, I am deeply deeply sorry for hurting you and and and you know, to anybody else to the the hundred girls that I've hurt because I have and uh you know, to the people because my my whole life has been art, music, and hurting people. That's pretty much it up until, you know, my my recent life. So, I do and I do feel regret for it. I'm not like a pompous ass who's like, "Fuck those assholes." You know, it's how it is. It's not. It's things stuff that I think about and stuff that I that I try to be a better person of. And, you know, I'm successful at sometimes and I'm success not I'm not other times. So, um you know, that is something. And then, you know, thank you to everybody too who supported who supported me. Thank you to my parents who are again my whole family you know is I'm so lucky and there would be world peace if I everybody had a family like I did there would be world peace and I'm I'm grateful to all of you to Bonnie to Graham you know to my aunt Sandy and my grandmother and all these people who who supported me and love me to this day you know I'm I'm grateful and I I'm mindful and I'm I'm I'm I I try to be more mindful every day you know as as we get older I guess you you get that way. Um, and then, uh, you know, but at the same time, you know, things had to happen the way they did to to form the art that I make.

[02:00:22]Um, and and you know, a great example is is the the terrible ifs, the Julie album. It is my my pinnacle of art. And the whole story is it's a tragedy and it's something that I that I ache about every single minute. And I I say her name every single I probably say her name to myself and out loud 24 times a day, you know, at least. And and it's something that I'm still I still I'm struggling with, you know, privately. But at the and I like, God, I wish that this or I wish that we were married now or I wish. But the thing is, it can't be like that because if it was like how if that if if that was how I wished, the Julie album wouldn't exist.

[02:01:05]And because we we met in Chicago, like we I've known the girl for 20 years. And so everything had to happen exactly the way it did in order for that album to exist. And my art is more important than any [ __ ] thing else in my life. So that being said, you know, I regret all those things, but they had to happen to to make things artistically the way they are, which is all that I am and all that I that I that I care about necessarily in terms of, you know, that. And I guess we can leave it at