Marcus King on the Difficulty of Quitting Antidepressants

Added: 2026-05-20

[00:00:00]the Joe Rogan Experience.

[00:00:02]>> Like he's done a bunch of different things. He did a ton of Iwasa.

[00:00:06]>> He's done a bunch of ketamine. He he did like magnets on his brain. I think he's did like a bunch of different things to try to like rewire the way his brain works.

[00:00:14]>> Yeah.

[00:00:15]>> Like whatever it is.

[00:00:16]>> That's a that's a journey I'm on. You know, I'm on anti-depressants and I I want to get off them.

[00:00:23]>> Which ones are you on?

[00:00:24]>> I'm on Symbalta.

[00:00:26]>> What does that one do?

[00:00:28]>> Well, >> is it an SSRI? Yeah.

[00:00:30]>> So, it basically just kind of a it's for a chemical imbalance, you know, but like [clears throat] the best work that I did to combat my depression and anxiety and stuff was micro doing, you know, mushrooms.

[00:00:45]>> Yeah.

[00:00:45]>> Like that's that's the most progress that I'd seen in my life. And um I'm going to figure out some kind of strategy because [clears throat and cough] you know like being on anti-depressants and them telling you like whoa don't just stop taking them all at once or you know you could have seizures and [ __ ] I'm like I don't like that. I don't want to be like you know enslaved by a drug by a pharmaceutical drug you know.

[00:01:14]>> Yeah. I'm >> and it's like also like now you just take this the rest of your life. It's like what's the end result here?

[00:01:22]>> Yeah. Theo Vaughn's going through the exact same thing and last time I was on the podcast he was explaining it to me.

[00:01:27]It freaks me out because I know Theo has had conversations before like even publicly he had a Netflix taping and and it didn't go well. It was like they actually never they shelved it. They never used it and you know there was all these stories from people that were there saying he bombed. I think he just had a kind of a breakdown. And when he was talking to the crowd and there's a video of it, we said, you know, the people were shaking. Hey, we still love you. He goes, "Thank you." Look, I'm just I'm trying not to take my own life.

[00:01:56]That's what I'm trying to do right now.

[00:01:57]>> Yeah.

[00:01:58]>> And like you hear stuff like that and you just go like, "Oh, Jesus Christ."

[00:02:01]I've known too many people that I didn't think were going to kill themselves and then did. And then he goes down these spirals where he starts talking about world events and freaking out. I'm like, "Oh, Jesus Christ." Like, I got to help this dude. And so I send him things about people getting off of them. And apparently there's some doctors that specialize in getting people off of them. But here's the thing about that chemical imbalance thing. That's not real. They they used to think that that was what these things do, that they treated a chemical imbalance. But then recently studies have shown that there that is not what they do. They don't exactly know what they do. and they kind of numb you in some sort of a way that helps some people. And I've had some friends and I don't, you know, I don't want to make any blanket statements because I had some friends that were suicidal. Um, Ari is one of them and he got on SSRI and it helped him. He got on he tried a bunch of different ones, found one that worked, got on track, and then his career started taking off. And then as his career started taking off, he started feeling much better. He was on a good positive path in his life and then he slowly weaned himself off of those and now he's off of them. So I think that might have saved his life.

[00:03:23]I also know other people that have been on their on those things and taken their own lives. So I don't know cuz that's part of one of the side effects is suicidal ideiation. It's one of the side effects.

[00:03:34]>> But see if you could find anything about the chemical imbalance not being true.

[00:03:41]the chemical imbalance reason for taking SSRIs. It's they they've measured like levels of dopamine and serotonin and people that take it's not that's not what it's doing and they don't even exactly know why it works and it's a huge business. That's part of the problem. And it's also part of the problem these doctors are incentivized to prescribe people these things. I had a friend that went to a psychiatrist and um was talking about their life and things not doing well and immediately the doctor tried to prescribe him SSRIs >> right away. Like right away. Here's something that you're never going to get off.

[00:04:21]>> I'm going to give it to you right away.

[00:04:22]First meeting. And he was like, "Well, I don't mean shouldn't I like try exercise? Shouldn't I try diet?

[00:04:29]Shouldn't I try just drinking water?"

[00:04:31]And you know, like I I read something about like magnesium and red light therapy being far more effective than even SSRIs. There is no good evidence for the simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin that directly causes depression or automatically means someone should take an SSRI, but SSRIs do change brain chemistry in ways that can help some people. Um but so for decades depression was popularly explained as a serotonin imbalance in the brain. Large reviews of the research have not found convincing evidence that people with depression have consistently low serotonin or a specific measurable imbalance that explains their symptoms.

[00:05:13]Experts now describe the chemical imbalance story as an oversimplified or outdated way of explaining a much more complex condition. And here's the other thing about depression. [snorts] It has to be connected to the state of your life.

[00:05:31]Like if you have a terrible job, you're in a bad relationship, you have abusive parents, you know, and you live in a shitty neighborhood, who why why would you be happy?

[00:05:42]>> Mhm.

[00:05:43]>> Oh, I'm depressed. Oh, you need a pill.

[00:05:45]No. Do you? Is that what you need?

[00:05:46]Right. Well, it's quite possible that you're eating processed foods and you have all these other things that we talked about. Shitty life, shitty house, shitty job, shitty neighborhood, shitty parents.

[00:05:57]>> Maybe you just need to make your life positive.

[00:06:01]>> Like, figure out a way to get your life in a positive direction. They've shown that exercise is way more effective than anti-depressants at at actually helping people with depression. True.

[00:06:12]>> Just exercise. just [ __ ] go on a nice long walk every day, do some cardio, you know, take a [ __ ] yoga class. That's way better for people than these goddamn pills. But these doctors are financially incentivized to prescribe these things and they prescribe them and hand them out like candy. And again, I think for some people it helps them >> and and and that's the issue, right? I mean, if it wasn't a financial incentive, I think it would be like take these for six months, you'll be better, you know? Yeah. It wouldn't be like >> forever.

[00:06:43]>> This is you now.

[00:06:44]>> Even six months. It's like, okay, [snorts] how long does it take to get off them, >> right?

[00:06:49]>> Cuz I know a guy who was on him and it took him a year and a half after he got off of them before he felt normal again.

[00:06:57]For a year and a half, he was [ __ ] up cuz he was on him for I think he said he was on him for 10 years and then for a year and a half he got off of them. And it just took that long before he finally like balanced the ship out, like whatever waves he had to go through for a year and a half. But he was like, "Whatever I'm doing, I am not going back on those goddamn pills." So he wrote it out >> and came out on the other end.

[00:07:24]>> It's [ __ ] up, too, because it's it's hard to compare your experience to other people because everybody's brain chemistry is different.

[00:07:31]>> Yeah. So you you could have two people on the same medication like you were you know saying earlier like um it's hard to even quantify like I even talked to my own sister or like other family members about you know their depression and their you know mental health uh journeys and um it's just it's interesting to think like you could say like it's it's hard to disprove it. You know what I mean? cuz somebody could be doing well on it. But it's also like it takes two weeks for it to really get into your system. And I've I I had to try like three or four different ones before one really I felt felt like me, you know, like even at my grandmother's funeral, like I just felt nothing. I just felt numb.

[00:08:17]>> And like I didn't notice it until I got into a situation where I was like, "This woman raised me and I can't feel anything."

[00:08:24]>> Wow. And it wasn't until like a heavy moment like that that I was able to kind of have that perspective of like I should be feeling something right now.

[00:08:33]So I put those down and then uh it was like two weeks later was having dinner with somebody and like this song came on that just brought all of it up. There was this melody this Wayne Shorter melody that just unccorked everything and I was just sobbing at the dinner table, you know. Wow.

[00:08:57]Um, what did you feel like before you took them and what was wrong with the ones that you didn't stick with?

[00:09:06]>> Um, well, I don't know if it was a a matter of like maybe the dosage was too high and it was just kind of creating a block cuz like you got to feel some emotions, right?

[00:09:18]>> So, how did you feel before you were taking them? like what was what was bothering you that you realized you needed to take something? Well, I think a lot of it had to do with just like substance abuse, but I was feeling really anxious and really suicidal and um just really really depressed, you know, and um just this overwhelming sense of dread every day and just also just a lot of helplessness like just trying to going to different doctors and just like trying to figure out like what the [ __ ] is it that's going to finally, you know, take this away, but also realizing like I rely on that a little bit, you know, for what I do for a living, you know, >> so there's kind of that, you know, >> rely on the feelings of depression.

[00:10:09]Yeah.

[00:10:10]>> All that, you know, for writing and for creating um >> God, that's a [ __ ] conundrum, ain't it?

[00:10:15]>> Yeah. Being fearful that it's going to take your drive away >> because you don't have anything to create for >> no substance, right? So, it's a it is a strange battle. It's one that I still kind of deal with, but I'm just in a much better spot on the journey.