WHY MARRIAGES IN UGANDA ARE FAILING

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]We're attempting [music] to answer the question, why are marriages in Uganda specifically failing? According to the Uganda Bureau of Statistics, around 12% of women [music] versus 7% of men are divorced or separated. And in some reports, according to the Daily Monitor, women are far more likely to [music] report divorce compared to So, that's 28% of women compared to 6% of men. And what those statistics are revealing to us is that more and more women are increasingly choosing to leave their marriages. So, the reasons for leaving marriages have boiled down to two. So, domestic violence and conflict. And it is stated that over 50% of married women have experienced some form of intimate partner violence and about 40% have experienced physical or emotional violence.

[00:00:47]>> The divorce rates [music] that are spiking are coming from a generation of young people that were feeding off individualistic mindsets about [music] love, about family, about marriage, and what to expect, and movies have shaped our minds, and Hollywood is, you know, it [music] has invaded the way we think about marriage that we even shun traditional [music] understanding of it.

[00:01:10]We now are seeing the effects of unparented people that have no [music] idea about service because marriage is service. You go into [music] marriage to pick your happiness.

[00:01:22]Who has planted happiness? This seems to be one of the strongest [music] indicators of why marriages are breaking down.

[00:01:34]Hello and welcome to Reality Check. It's a new week, and we hope that you are having a fantastic one. My name is Rachel, and on this channel, we care for hearts and minds. And we do that through conversations regarding mental health in the areas of family, marriage, relationships, parenting, and the workplace. So, if you're new here, we'd love it if you subscribed and give this episode a thumbs up. Leave us a comment as well because we love hearing back from you.

[00:02:01]Dr. Eva's is back. Ding ding ding ding Thank you, >> [laughter] >> Rachel. Welcome back.

[00:02:07]>> Thank you so much. And you look lovely.

[00:02:10]Thank you so much.

[00:02:11]>> I was just musing that you don't look like the smoke that you have been in.

[00:02:14]I learned that from Ben. Really?

[00:02:16]>> You don't have to look like >> problems.

[00:02:19]>> [laughter] >> Is Ben Ben? My Ben, yes.

[00:02:23]Our Ben.

[00:02:25]You don't have to look like your problems. So, yes, Dr. Eva's is back.

[00:02:28]>> glad to be back.

[00:02:29]>> We're happy to have you [clears throat] back.

[00:02:30]>> Yeah. Thank you for your for checking in. A number of you checked in, and I really appreciate your kind thoughts.

[00:02:37]Mhm.

[00:02:38]Well, um and we are hitting the ground running. We are having a a conversation, as you have seen in the caption. We're attempting to answer the question, why are marriages in Uganda specifically failing? Are they failing?

[00:02:53]Are they changing? What's going on over there? Are they struggling?

[00:02:58]Um before we do that and before I introduce our guest, um I just wanted to share some statistics. According to the Uganda Bureau of Standards, rather of Statistics, around 12% of women versus 7% of men are divorced or separated. And in some reports, according to the Daily Monitor, women are far more likely to report divorce compared to So, that's 28% of women compared to 6% of men. And what those statistics are revealing to us is that more and more women are increasingly choosing to leave their marriages. Maybe we'll find out why.

[00:03:36]Um but also, the reasons for leaving marriages um have boiled down to two.

[00:03:40]So, domestic violence and conflict. And it is stated that over 50% of married women have experienced some form of intimate partner violence, and about 40% uh have experienced physical or emotional violence. So, this seems to be one of the strongest indicators of why marriages are breaking down.

[00:04:00]Okay. We are going to get into our conversation, and joining us to do that is, I think appropriately, a priest who is very involved in wedding people and counseling married couples. Um talking about uh Reverend Gideon Muhima.

[00:04:18]A good friend.

[00:04:19]>> [laughter] >> Thank you. Um thank you for being here.

[00:04:21]>> Thank you for having me. Yeah, he's a priest. He's also a husband and a father.

[00:04:24]>> Yes. And so, he's speaking from, you know, different points of view.

[00:04:29]>> Yeah. Um as you will hear in our conversation today. So, welcome aboard.

[00:04:33]Glad to be here.

[00:04:34]>> done enough talking. Over to the both of you.

[00:04:37]>> [laughter] >> So, I think a good starting point would be your observation because um Dr. Eva's also counsels couples as a therapist.

[00:04:45]She is a therapist, by the way, um for those of you that are new. And to um Reverend Gideon, who also interacts a lot with couples, what has your observation been about marriages? What are you seeing on the ground?

[00:05:00]From both your experiences, what are you observing? What are you seeing on the ground? Is it that marriages are failing or are they changing?

[00:05:10]We usually give guests the first [laughter] opportunity.

[00:05:15]Yeah, um I think my observations are that we have It looks like there are more failing marriages than they are not. It would look on the surface.

[00:05:31]But really, that is because you know, good news is no news at all.

[00:05:36]So, the marriages that are doing well, no one really >> No one is saying >> is saying much. And that's from, again, my observation, there is more likely more of those couples than not. It's just that we have our work has to deal with those that are not. And it would look like that they're like they're many, many more.

[00:05:59]Um and I'm speaking specifically from the perspective of the church. But when you grow broader outside of the church, then numbers flip.

[00:06:10]It's a lot worse.

[00:06:12]It's a lot worse.

[00:06:13]Um and so, I think that um and and when you are dealing with people, especially outside the church, the the rules of engagement are wild. are wilder.

[00:06:25]They are way out there, and so, there is nothing that holds them back or anchors them. And so, our call is to be more concerned about what anchors the individuals before we then say you have to be anchored in marriage. Yeah. Yeah, that's my >> That makes a lot of sense.

[00:06:45]>> [clears throat] >> Okay, um I I guess my observations are not different from Reverend Gideon's, um but um what I see, of course, the people I see are struggling, but also, I don't just confine my my understanding to the people that come here. I'm I'm making bigger observations.

[00:07:09]And to be honest with you, the situation is not good. Now, you presented the statistics on divorce and separation.

[00:07:18]Divorce.

[00:07:20]But I think I would confidently say we have bad marriages.

[00:07:27]Yeah. And this is supported by evidence.

[00:07:29]I've even shared it here, and I can share it again. There's a study that was done by the Ministry of Justice in 2020.

[00:07:39]Not far Not very far from now. And it showed that um out of those 3,000 uh nine Okay, call it 4,000 couples that were interviewed, um only 11% said they were happily married.

[00:08:02]So, when we say marriage is struggling, we are not just talking about divorce.

[00:08:08]Um to be honest with you, and and at that time, just going back to the statistic, people reporting unhappiness, um it's 77% said they were hanging in there. That is scary. And when we say I'm a student of statistics, 77% is actually eight out of every 10 couples.

[00:08:39]That is That's That doesn't look good.

[00:08:41]And you don't have to be divorced to to have a bad marriage.

[00:08:46]That [laughter] is true. You see? Now, again, speaking as a mental health practitioner, um I think I I again I have to use this opportunity to tell people that the marriage relationship is unique. It's unique. It actually has capacity to supply our health by 80%.

[00:09:05]You see?

[00:09:06]If any person is married, 80% of your wellness comes from your marriage.

[00:09:12]So, that's a life-giving institution.

[00:09:15]Now, when when when eight out of every 10 say they are miserable, then that tells you about the wellness state of the nation. So, that that really scared me so much. And at that time, rate had tripled. Had moved from four to to 12%.

[00:09:36]Yes. You see that?

[00:09:38]Now, we need to get concerned. Really need to get concerned about the So, I'm I'm worried. And And I mean, using my other crude means, um I'm a bit And as a parent, now my children are getting married. So concerning because I'm seeing like young people reach out and they are in tears and it's painful. It's really painful.

[00:10:06]So, I really feel the situation is is not good. It's really not good.

[00:10:15]And uh every time I attend a marriage now I'm getting trauma.

[00:10:19]Because every time I'm at a wedding, I just feel like I want to say to people, "Please treat each other well."

[00:10:25]Like Treat each other well.

[00:10:28]Uh I mean I get opportunities to speak at weddings and and and uh um I quote scripture from uh 1 Corinthians 13 um about love.

[00:10:41]And it it's it's describes how love is.

[00:10:44]It breaks it down. This is what love means. Love is kind. Love is patient.

[00:10:49]Love is and and you love is not self-seeking and all and all.

[00:10:54]And then in verse 8 it says, "Love never fails." Now, that's the love that doesn't fail.

[00:11:01]But people think any kind of love is not going to fail. No, all the other loves fail. It is only that love that doesn't fail. So, it's really concerning that you see people wed, but then the next minute they are crying, they are struggling, they are they are not so sure. I met a group of young ladies recently and they were advising each other and I I accessed them through one of them who came here and said, "My friends are saying this. They say at least yours doesn't beat you even if he sleeps out and all." And then I say, "Is it possible to talk to your friends?" And so they came in. I listened to their stories. It's painful. It's painful. You may not be divorced, but someone say, "At least people are living off at least at least." Why should we live off at least? Someone who is wedding, why should they tell you you're coming for at least?

[00:11:54]So, I think I think the situation is really bad. It is bad. It is bad. Um and yeah, sure. No, I actually just add on to that. I Well, there's a some some church I keep saying this at weddings.

[00:12:07]Um someone working at URSB told me, I don't know how verifiable this is, but they told me approximately one in every one of two marriages ends up in divorce.

[00:12:24]Of those that have been registered in church. No way. Yeah.

[00:12:29]So, now they Yeah, so so you have about 50% of the marriages within the And but when we say church, we mean like the weddings that do happen at church.

[00:12:40]end in divorce.

[00:12:42]And so you you have it's it's quite worrisome that that 50% of the marriages that we know of um end in divorce. And by the time it is divorce, that means there has been a whole lot of stuff going on before.

[00:13:01]Um I think yes, it's clear that the situation is bad. Um and I think that there's generally various reasons why couples end up like this. Um and maybe without going into I guess we can't because we have a therapist here, but the psychological, you know, what kind of men and women are meeting in marriages and are they really healthy mentally?

[00:13:23]What would you say generally from again both your practices are the reasons people are coming to you and saying, "Look, I I can't do this anymore. I didn't sign up for this. I want to leave. Um I'm done."

[00:13:35]The love has failed. The love has refused to go past Yeah. these things that people are coming to you because they come and say why they are leaving or why they want to leave. Yes, in the courts and you know, when it's being reported, we'll hear things like irreconcilable differences, but there are actual issues.

[00:13:52]They're actual issues and then there are also those where they are not not really issues. They're not there.

[00:13:58]They're not there. Okay, we're sure.

[00:14:01]Well, I I I think before we we go into the um the psychology of it, personally from my everyone that has come in and when you keep digging and digging, it boils down to one heart posture, selfishness.

[00:14:15]Um when when it boils down to selfishness and selfishness that is rooted in in cultural and systemic upbringing like points it's individualistic. Um and and that's mainly our generation. The The divorce rates that are spiking are coming from a generation of young people that were feeding off individualistic mindsets about love, about family, about marriage and what to expect. And movies have shaped our minds and Hollywood is, you know, it has invaded the way we think about marriage that we even shun traditional understanding of it um uh in terms of our parents and how they did it and Yeah, no, they for them they endured. No, for me I don't want to endure. I want to be happy. I am I'm about my happiness.

[00:15:05]And when you go into marriage about your happiness, it it there is no good ending for that marriage. I I can I can almost Let me Let me just say almost for just for the sake of I can almost guarantee that is not going to end well when you go in it for your happiness. And I think that expression of selfishness has sipped through everything through through your expectations and your demands and your hopes and your dreams and your pursuits and chasing after your dreams of life at the expense of the other.

[00:15:45]Your The other person is there for your happiness.

[00:15:48]And that that is it's an epidemic in in our generation, our selfishness and our individualisticness.

[00:15:57]That has been my observation as a as a priest. Yeah, and I think it's an overarching theme, but then it kind of manifests in different other things, you know. I I have these expectations and you're not meeting them.

[00:16:09]And it's rarely outward-looking.

[00:16:11]What does my husband need or what does my wife What is that? What do I need? Yeah.

[00:16:16]>> [laughter] >> You know? Yeah. Dr. Evance. Yeah, no, um selfishness again, yeah, it manifests in a number of things.

[00:16:25]And um I I just just before I give my other reasons, I feel we uh we've nurtured it. We've nurtured selfishness.

[00:16:38]Um I think I've ever shared from the again from the place of psychology that we are all born selfish. Read Psalms 51.

[00:16:46]We all We are all born selfish. We we um we pursue our own interests. We are desiring pleasure. We We just want to be happy and But then as reality is introduced in our lives, then we are able to balance life and be a balanced human beings. So, that brings me to the point I wanted to add on to what uh Reverend Gideon is saying. I think for me we are seeing the effects of poor parenting.

[00:17:23]And >> [laughter] >> Yes, because you see parenting um actually shapes 80% of our being and parenting is about nurturing reality and nurturing morality.

[00:17:38]Those two, they help to um to dissolve or to neutralize. I think it's neutralizing the selfish nature of humans.

[00:17:50]But now where And then and I've seen some of these things in the papers in media is showing us how we are reinforcing selfishness.

[00:18:00]You see? Or you know, my child cannot do this. They just have to. I I've seen some of them and I'm like, "What are we doing?" So, we we now are seeing the effect of unparented people that have no idea about um service because marriage is service, Reverend Gideon. Marriage is service. If you go into marriage to pick your happiness, who has planted happiness?

[00:18:28]>> [laughter] >> And so um we have a generation that doesn't believe in giving, but to receive and be comfortable.

[00:18:38]And I mean, we can talk about these the entire day, but it's becoming a problem because every time I'm I'm doing counseling, you see you see it there.

[00:18:47]Someone wants to they want to do the opposite, but get such a good reward.

[00:18:55]You know, um um classic one is every time I'm counseling couples that are dealing with infidelity.

[00:19:03]Um I've had some cases where someone says, "You know, I I um in our marriage intimacy was a problem. Then I got tempted to" Someone said, "I just found myself in the hands of another woman."

[00:19:19]But now I've found out that my wife is cheating and I'm so heartbroken. So, I said, "Why are you heartbroken?

[00:19:26]I mean, you're doing exactly the same So, I I asked them, "So, how is your sin different from your wife's?" So, it's the same So, you see, I'm talking about selfishness. [clears throat] Yeah, so me, I can do all that. I can come home and And by the way, Reverend Gideon, I I I just have a challenge with some of the messages we are giving young people and and couples.

[00:19:48]I I've had one and I can't wait to have this conversation with Ben later on.

[00:19:53]Um where um especially men, uh they just they want to be um they want to be um you know, like lazy lovers, give nothing, and you know, and then receive this whole thing and like the message of go go to your home. You know, a man's home is his sanctuary.

[00:20:15]Then I'm asking, who built the Who's building [laughter] the sanctuary, you know? There's no Actually, actually, there's chaos, there's confusion.

[00:20:23]You're You're absent, you're I mean, like you are avoidant, you're not putting anything, but you expect to come to a sanctuary.

[00:20:33]Come home at 4:00, at 3:00, but be received. Some of those messages, they've they've been reinforced.

[00:20:42]You know, they've been reinforced. So, poor parenting, cultural um systemic reinforcement, and then church, and then the matter.

[00:20:53]It is actually becoming a very big problem. So, if we do not address that selfishness, it's becoming a problem.

[00:21:00]Now, I think you've heard me say the messages we are giving to couples now, they'll rather be real because they are not aligning with the realities of life, and we are still working off some old scripts.

[00:21:16]That's why when you hear every time we want some people want to um just enjoy the selfishness, they're going to invoke culture.

[00:21:25]They're going to say, "Grandmother, why don't you be like my grandmother?" Um you know, my grandmother, and even the the marriages of their grandmothers and mothers they are referencing, they have no idea how those looked like.

[00:21:39]Yeah, so selfishness, poor parenting.

[00:21:42]But also, uh you read about the statistics. You You hear that people are divorcing over conflict.

[00:21:51]The domestic violence.

[00:21:54]One of the things I've said is that what is affecting marriage is that no one talks about skills for relationship management. No one. No one.

[00:22:06]Everyone is fronting love. By the way, people, love is there.

[00:22:10]Love has not gone. There's no person who marries without love unless they've been they've been raped or whatever. But there is love. There's love. But love requires management.

[00:22:22]Yeah? You manage it by giving, by respecting, by by laying boundaries, by like all those things, by by communicating the right by managing conflict the right way.

[00:22:34]But because those basic soft skills are missing, then that's why we are ending in violence. No one marries a partner to kill. No. No one marries a partner to batter, but they don't have an alternative set of skills to manage the relationship. So, for instance, com- communication.

[00:22:54]Communication, I was looking at statistics, and actually statistics are showing that out of that people are 68% of divorces are happening are reporting lack of communication or poor communication. It's a problem. Now, communication is a skill. Conflict management is a skill. Um boundary setting is a skill. Um negotiation is a skill. Um self-discovery, self-awareness is a skill. All these simple little skills that are needed, simple but essential, we don't focus on them. We say, "Go love each other." Or go respect Or go submit.

[00:23:34]Go So, we are giving >> [clears throat] [laughter] >> What is submission, for instance? Who breaks it down for you? You know, I remember when we were just a couple of years in marriage. Our first 3 years in marriage, my husband and I, we struggled with communication. But no one told us that we had different personalities. No one reminded us that he was man, I was woman. No one broke down communication for us.

[00:24:02]I went into marriage knowing that communication was talking, and I had no challenge talking.

[00:24:08]I actually have a CHALLENGE KEEPING QUIET.

[00:24:10]>> [laughter] >> SO, I KNEW I was a good communicator.

[00:24:14]But no one told me that 7% of your communication is just words. Um that that your voice tone is 38%. Your your body language, your the kind of the posture you put out to manage the communication can affect it or, you know, make it better. So, we are not focusing on helping people to pick soft skills that are supposed to help them to help them manage the relationship.

[00:24:45]Manage love. Because love is a a love rather it's a project. It is. I I wanted to throw a bit of a spanner in the works.

[00:24:55]>> [laughter] >> Well, the help is there because there's, you know, church help, there's also you in terms of therapy. There are many people who don't want help.

[00:25:04]There are many couples who are stuck, and unfortunately, usually it's the women who go seeking help, and their spouses will tell them, "If we cannot fix the problems ourselves, then nobody can help us."

[00:25:16]While there's truth in that statement, they're also not willing to come to the table and say, "Maybe we are lacking in this area, or maybe we should actually seek the help we need." So, there are many couples who find themselves at an impasse because there is silence.

[00:25:33]Again, we've said people don't have the tools to deal with, you know, the conflict in their relationships. The ones who are wild end up beating, you know, or emotionally abusing, which is where the silence comes in. So, I find that we are offering help, or the help is there, but there are many people who don't want the help because they think they know how to manage a relationship.

[00:25:54]And I find that really sad.

[00:25:56]Over the weekend, I posted on my TikTok, and I was saying that silence never resolved uh an issue in marriage.

[00:26:03]Silence is good for a time to think, to reflect, to pray, maybe to seek help, and then come back to the table and say, "Let's have a conversation." So, when you keep quiet, when somebody keeps quiet, it's like, "So, what are we doing?

[00:26:18]Where are we going? Where are we heading? We're at an impasse. We're not going to move, we're not going to progress because somebody has chosen silence." Of course, the comments were interesting. People were saying, "You know, we are with narcissistic partners, and some of them, you just need to keep quiet." And I say, "Yes."

[00:26:33]>> see, that is using silence. You're weaponizing your silence. Exactly.

[00:26:37]>> You're not You're not pursuing healing in your relationship. You're pursuing your own comfort.

[00:26:43]And when you do that, then you you're you you're used it to shut the other That's weaponizing. And It's not a long-term strategy. No. No. And it it only serves you for the moment because it it it gives you a certain some sort of high um that you have some power because you're using your your quiet. Um but I the you're just winning the battles, the war you have lost it properly.

[00:27:13]Yeah, over the years, when that accumulates, when you shut the other And it doesn't matter which gender it it is. Usually, it's more men than than not. They They're the ones who who tend to Yeah. To go into their cave, and they intentionally do it as a weapon because they can't lay a hand, or they they'll be arrested, what. So, I'm just going to use what I have. I'm just going to be quiet, shut them out, think of myself, and I end up in other extramarital relations because I have failed to manage this. Which brings me to my next question on more women initiating divorce. Before we go to that ritual, um um you mentioned that there is help, but people are not getting it, and they resort to negative coping because silence is negative So, again, it goes back to how we have been nurtured. And we are talking about Uganda, by the way.

[00:28:09]Um I know that other people will benefit from this conversation, but I think we have uh sometime back I learned about territorial spirits. We have a >> [laughter] >> I think there are certain spirits that we have that we need to acknowledge.

[00:28:26]Um number one, in our on our parenting journey, and I I keep going back, we are telling children to shut up.

[00:28:36]There are so many people that have grown up without the opportunity to express themselves.

[00:28:43]Now, what's Okay, so, girls, of course, there is a whole psychology about women and communication, but men, boys, they I want you to just look back at how our boys are raised. There is no engagement.

[00:28:59]You know, there's no engagement. There's no problem solving. There is a lot of I was telling my husband recently that uh watching these wars going on, I said, "I think we need more women in the in those boardrooms so that we can have some emotion."

[00:29:16]But there is a lot of conquering, and there is a lot of glamorizing men and conquering and all, and they have to conquer. But when they have to come down to situations that require navigation and solving a problem and listening and engaging and internalizing and you know, try to understand what your partner, empathizing and all, there is no conversation around that. So, we have a generation that has grown into that and all they know is you are you for instance a man someone should listen to you and if they don't listen to you then you shut down.

[00:30:01]They're not they're not submissive.

[00:30:03]They're not submissive. They're disrespectful.

[00:30:06]>> [laughter] >> Now, that's that now so that gets them to okay because they they don't they don't even just weaponize they they are stranded. They don't have an alternative skills to apply because they haven't been told how to be active listeners to empathize and try to understand the engage. That's why I think Rachel we had a conversation where we were saying don't run no one is going to kill you come home and engage solve a problem because problem solving is a skill. You see this is what I was talking about.

[00:30:39]Now, you can't solve a problem by keeping quiet. And so you hear all this thing about oh me when this I keep quiet. I go away. And they they are boastful about it.

[00:30:50]>> And they are okay with it because and you hear oh men keep quiet. Then then what? How can you be a leader that keeps quiet because you're leading the relationship also. You see you're leading a family and you're leading the relationship. So, how do you solve a problem by just shutting down and then you need resuscitation?

[00:31:11]Uh and encouragement and I guess motivation and I don't know all these statements that don't make sense. So, I really feel we we we just need to help people to solve problems.

[00:31:25]>> Problems. Because if they don't solve problem marriage is a problem solving platform.

[00:31:30]You know all of life is about problem solving but marriage particularly you're going to have to grow through solving problems and I've never mentioned that our happiness in marriage is going to depend on how much we resolve issues. You know how much we cleanse emotionally and then move up but not covering shutting down keeping quiet hiding in the bar and then you think you're going to be okay. There's no way there's no way.

[00:32:00]So, I did share some statistics about more women initiating the divorce process even though contrary to I guess our parents generation the women endured the women stayed you know long in their marriages and yet now we are seeing the reverse is true more and more women are saying look I'm done.

[00:32:23]Again I want to draw from your experience or from your observation on why you think this is happening or why we are having more and more women initiating divorce and saying I I I don't need this. You know I don't need to endure so to speak. Yeah, I I I also did a bit of research on on statistics specifically about homicides. And it seems at least worldwide for last last year and the other year has been about 83,000 women have been killed worldwide and that is about 0.1% of the homicides. That's a big number.

[00:33:04]That's a big number and 60% of those are killed by partners.

[00:33:12]Um so when it gets to that point obviously it seems like this is something that has been brewing over time and women now have been more empowered with the GBV efforts to you know get them aware of their value and their worth and um education wise and you know resources now they have they are better equipped to address the issue of violence and so if that is one of the major issues that you have they they get married to violent men then they have they they are able to address it by going through the court system going through you know making sure they use the available resources to get them out. So, that is why they are doing that and why it is less for men is because we tend to get away with many things. This is true.

[00:34:11]>> so I I don't have to be divorced to be with another woman.

[00:34:15]>> Another woman yes. You get it. So, you know you can go ahead and do your thing go and find myself. So, that kind of that's why we are seeing the disparities in in the registration of divorces.

[00:34:26]Um but more more into it is so when they see patterns when you see infidelity when you see rage a lot of taking substances substance abuse those are signals that this you need to be out of this thing. Now, the trouble the first the trouble with educating people this way is that they end up finding the men they were warned about because they have no they have not been equipped to look for the good men. Uh-huh.

[00:35:09]>> They've been taught all men are trash men are pigs men are what and so they go in knowing that this guy >> anytime >> anytime. So, there are trust issues already communication issues already by the time they go in and this is a site like it has been inbred from the time they were little girls.

[00:35:30]And so by the time they get into a marriage even if they get married to a decent guy they already in their minds know that there is something wrong with this guy and they will bring it out.

[00:35:40]They will bring it and there is always something wrong in every man.

[00:35:43]Absolutely.

[00:35:44]>> In every person every human being. So, they will bring it out and be and conf- confirmation bias will take over and be like yeah I knew this is what it was therefore I don't want to have any of this and I will get out of it. And so but the the skilling that she was talking about trying to find like trusting and hoping and believing and knowing that this is a good person that is not something that is that's foreign. It says. It is a very foreign thing especially in our generation because for them what has been normalized is men are trash.

[00:36:17]>> Men are trash because those stories have been amplified >> Yeah. unfortunately >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think?

[00:36:24]Yeah, I I I think I agree with him. I agree with him and that bias is actually killing us.

[00:36:31]All men all men as a psychologist >> [laughter] >> Yeah. All men all women all that that's trauma and some of the nurturing has actually trauma has been trauma [snorts] based.

[00:36:45]Um where okay some some people of course you know the dysfunctionality in families there are so many people that have grown and they haven't had an opportunity to live a happy family experience and they've seen abusive dads they've seen so they go with with that all men thing but of course this has been amplified by movements like the feminist movement and other movements which I think to have done so much damage because not all men are bad not all women are terrible not all hearts are made in hell.

[00:37:23]It is just those biased perspectives that have been sold to people and unfortunately unfortunately they are not pro family. There are so many things that are anti family.

[00:37:38]That are being sold around but having said that I think also tolerance levels have gone low in psychology we have what we call a tolerance score and this this definitely also gets nurtured that parenting. I'm sorry to keep going back to parenting because we I'm so worried about how how we have played around with parenting and what it's doing now we are seeing the effects in the workplace in marriages everywhere and so we are seeing this tolerance is nurtured at home.

[00:38:17]We also call it emotional regulation you know like people just those are skills that are nurtured for people to live together but now every little discomfort uh people are out of it. You see they don't we don't we no longer have okay that's too too much. We we we increasingly going low on some of these important human elements that help people to live together like you don't have to go to war on simple things that you can actually have conversation about. So, that's what we talk about tolerance index.

[00:39:01]It's going low so that's why we see so many people just oh this I didn't sign up for this. Just one thing I didn't sign up for this. But you see the marriage plat- platform I was telling one of our children and keeps saying mommy can I be a little girl again? I said no you [clears throat] can only be older. Yeah.

[00:39:20]Um they we have not told them that actually that every time you go up higher there is a higher responsibility and the dynamics are different. Now, it's not someone solving your problem you have to solve it there and so you're going to be tolerant sometimes and those are statements that people don't want to hear. Those concepts of compromise, tolerance are they say I cannot tolerate this. So we've glamorized intolerance and so every time a person feels uncomfortable, they say no. No. I'm out of it.

[00:40:02]So again, yes women they tend to to do this more.

[00:40:10]But also the whole issue of women before, you know, our grandmothers were more tolerant, were more patient, were more what? We also have to consider that the world has changed. And now we live in a world that seems to offer us more alternatives.

[00:40:30]Please mark my words. Seem to offer us more alternatives. So there is this illusion that actually if you leave this relationship, you can now you can get into another one. Very easily. So of course I don't want to talk about our grandmothers. They also had their own issues because they were they didn't have alternatives. Now I'm not saying all alternatives are wrong. They didn't some of them didn't know any better.

[00:40:59]They were depending on on some they didn't have money, they didn't have so that's a whole conversation that I don't want to open up a can of worms on. But what I'm talking about is there is this illusion that if you're uncomfortable here the quick thing is exit, go here. And there is no balanced information or by the way, this is also going to be a management project.

[00:41:28]Yeah, so you cannot live a life of starting I think Rachel mentioned on this show that there are people the only time they are happy is when they are in a new relationship.

[00:41:39]>> [laughter] >> You understand?

[00:41:42]Yeah, so you you you get happy then when it converts into management how do we solve the problem solving here? Then you jump out and start a new one. So there we have that challenge now that people think, oh I can get into another one. Oh I can get I think I've counselled a number of people and you just check they're saying, oh you know this person they did I said but you can't solve this problem. You can actually grow together. You can you can you know, solve this this way. But they don't want. They just want to get into they want to have that feeling of a new relationship, a new relationship. An escape from where they have been.

[00:42:22]>> An escape from yes. But before they know it's just going to I've already told you before how relationships grow. They don't know that it's also going to go through the whole cycle, the spectrum.

[00:42:36]You know, you you you don't just keep at marketing stage. You're going to get into management. Now when it goes into management, what are you going to do?

[00:42:45]Jump out? So that's why for instance now we have you get into this marriage you leave one child. You get into this you do two children. You get into this you do three. Then before you realize, hey it's all the same. It's too late.

[00:42:59]So that's that's that's that's it.

[00:43:01]I think that the idea on conversations is actually quite and it you'll see it everywhere. It's it's in the messaging on on social media. Um There's so many people who are talking about their divorces. There's so many people who are coming online and saying and I mean I'm not saying you shouldn't but it's contributing to people thinking I can actually get out of this even though I can solve the issue or the problem in my marriage. Divorce is is an an alternative, you know, and I can be happier. I can be, you know, less miserable. I can choose myself and choose my happiness and choose my path even though you solving the issues in your marriage can bring you that same happiness. 100% and you see every time I'm I'm talking I'm helping someone who is considering divorce, I always ask them have you considered how it's going to look like?

[00:43:54]Because there is a tendency to glamorize what you you haven't experienced yet.

[00:44:00]But then this and that's that's a whole purpose of therapy because we help people to project what is it's going to look like here. And of course it is in human nature for us to run away from pain.

[00:44:17]But then are you likely to experience more pain here? So that's how we help people to see the whole picture, the whole picture. Now finally Rachel on this issue.

[00:44:27]You you asked why women are the ones actually initiating divorce.

[00:44:35]I I and I'm I'm open to your thoughts Reverend Gideon. But I think I can risk saying that relationship management in marriage women tend to carry the biggest burden.

[00:44:51]Yeah. That's why you whenever there is a problem there are so many women that have just um skirting around their husbands, can we talk? Can we do this? Can we do this?

[00:45:04]Can we can we can we engage like we we we run a session an episode here on when to engage a third party.

[00:45:12]There are so many men that don't want a third party. And and yet they don't want to solve the problem. So you'll find that it's women that are carrying the whole burden of the most of the time. Again, I don't want to be one-sided but let's be honest. Any person married you'll see you'll find that in most cases it's the wife that is trying to you know, to to get the relationship back. Something has happened let's let's solve it. Let's talk about it. Let's where the other party is happy to keep quiet or escape or go to work or [clears throat] come back talk to boys and and all. And then that tends to lead to exhaustion.

[00:45:57]Yeah, so at a certain point women tend to get a point where they feel I've done everything. I think I'm done. Right? So now divorce becomes an option.

[00:46:10]I agree with you. I I think that for most because they do carry the weight divorce then becomes more apparent because it's one of the weights they have to carry.

[00:46:23]And for us as guys because we have other options, other alternatives we find. Now not again like you said not to say there might be a guy out there who is carrying the weight. is carrying the weight.

[00:46:35]And and for them I think the issue usually men who are in that area their issue again is because they want to carry it alone.

[00:46:47]They want to solve they solve problem solver. So when when they report the problem that means they have failed at solving it and something about a man and he has a very bad relationship with failure.

[00:47:00]Usually we we we want to go out and conquer.

[00:47:05]But when we have failed to conquer even this marriage thing we're we're going to we're going to keep quiet. We're going to you know move away, disengage, act normal and disengage.

[00:47:18]>> [laughter] >> Because it's an act.

[00:47:21]Yeah. I want to ask about cohabitation but because of time maybe you can talk about it in my next question.

[00:47:28]What do you think couples are getting wrong before they get married? And maybe cohabitation you can slide it in there because it's increasingly becoming the norm.

[00:47:37]Because I guess marriage comes with certain commitments or comes with certain finalities that someone is like, let me stay on the fence here where I can just live with someone.

[00:47:51]You could just comment on that. But what do you think couples are getting wrong before they get into marriage because I also believe foundation is is important.

[00:48:01]We've been talking about divorce and my question is usually divorce from which marriage?

[00:48:08]And I think that that is where the the trouble has been. My friend Dennis Mugume often says something very very profound.

[00:48:17]Why do you get into a Christian marriage when you're not a Christian?

[00:48:22]Because there is a demand on a Christian marriage that you don't find in a traditional marriage.

[00:48:29]We don't even find in the civil civil marriage although they have been influenced by Christian thought.

[00:48:37]Or or cohabitation it's not found. That demand Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's not found in cohabitation which has now become, you know, legalized in in a sense. In a way it's now it's the norm for most people. And I think that cohabitation gives room for someone to walk away from a demand that would have otherwise held them in. anchored them in.

[00:49:04]And so for me when one of the things that people have gotten wrong is a very very very poor understanding of what marriage is.

[00:49:17]And what it is fundamental, foundational.

[00:49:21]Because now we're going in for love. So as if you're talking about Christian marriages, for instance Christian marriage ought to have the highest esteem of what the word love is.

[00:49:34]Because it is not it is not supposed to be reduced to feelings and affections.

[00:49:42]And from a Christian point of view, that's what brings the biggest problem. We when we are so nearsighted about love, it is about me and my feelings and about how I can make the other person feel.

[00:49:57]I have seen one of the greatest writers I have read, John Piper, always says this statement and I always say it during my weddings.

[00:50:06]Marriage is not meant for your happiness.

[00:50:09]It is meant for your holiness.

[00:50:11]Um if you are pursuing holiness, by this I mean you're set apart for the glory of God. And therefore, I am going to love this person in a way that God is seen.

[00:50:27]Then you're in a Christian marriage.

[00:50:30]It's not You're not in a Christian marriage because you made the vows No.

[00:50:33]at church. You're in a Christian marriage because you're living out the values of Christianity because you're a Christian.

[00:50:42]But we tend to separate [snorts] the values and the person.

[00:50:47]And when you do that, you You're always going to fail, yeah. And then that you'll begin to hear things like, "No, you guys you're just You're just supporting abuse. You're just support" Look, you you went into a marriage that demands a certain standard of living when you are not qualified for that standard of living. Because the only qualification for a Christian marriage is Christians.

[00:51:11]People who are believers in Christ, who follow Jesus, whose ultimate purpose for their marriage is so that they can show who God is.

[00:51:20]So, you know, then when it comes to civil and traditional, they they are they have their own standards.

[00:51:27]You get They do. And the trouble with these others is that it is not till death do us part.

[00:51:37]You get? The only way place you find till death do us part is in the Christian marriage because it's not about you.

[00:51:44]But when it comes to civil, when it comes to traditional, when it comes to cohabitation, it's still when my happiness is ended, then we can figure out how to deal with that. And and so you have more more people checking out of that because it is easier for them to check out.

[00:52:01]And it becomes deplorable when when that standard is put in Christian marriages.

[00:52:09]It it's a terrible thing. Have you Sorry, go ahead. Finish. No, no. Like when we And And unfortunately, as church, and I'm talking about it from a general point of view, we have succumbed to societal pressures.

[00:52:24]And systemic terrible patriarchal toxicity.

[00:52:29]Um and because of that, we are pushing for things like submit submit submit.

[00:52:36]You know, you need to sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice without the engagement of what it means to love God first, then your neighbor.

[00:52:47]Instead, we are only pushing love your neighbor. Maybe God is a is an afterthought, is a footnote. And yet we say he is the foundation. He's fundamentally created marriage for him.

[00:52:59]So What are we doing? What are we doing?

[00:53:02]You know, it's What are we doing? Yeah.

[00:53:04]I I'd love to to ask about civil marriages and the vows. I've attended a civil marriage and I remember the vows ending with till death do us part. Have you been to a civil marriage? Yeah. Um yeah, I think I Well, I have not attended uh a civil marriage in particular, I but I do I know that some some of them have till death do us part, but they already It's a It's contractual. It's not covenantal.

[00:53:26]So, there are clauses that allow for divorce. Okay. Oh.

[00:53:32]Yeah. Okay. Interesting. You learn something new every day.

[00:53:36]I I I I agree with with him. Um but I was also thinking, and I could be wrong. You see, marriage is God's concept.

[00:53:48]And I learned years back that uh um someone made a statement that actually made so much sense to me, that God didn't give us religion, he gave us He He demands a relationship with him.

[00:54:03]And so I want to apply this to the conversation we are having.

[00:54:08]You see, I'm I'm combining both uh scripture and and uh study that the learning the psychology that I've learned, and we all know that um life runs on principles.

[00:54:25]Principles. Principles govern life. I I don't know, Reverend Muheema, if you've read a book um by by I'm forgetting. Sorry. Um the author um Kingdom Principles.

[00:54:44]Myles Munroe.

[00:54:45]Yeah.

[00:54:46]And when you look at the principles that govern life, they are actually the same.

[00:54:53]And And so the the principles that govern marriage are the same, whether you you you go where Because you see, this love thing, I've always asked people, there is an an invisible part of us that we need to acknowledge. We we tend to focus on the physical. You look like I have legs, I have this, but there is an invisible part of you, and I always ask them. Part of it is love.

[00:55:20]I ask people, how many of people have love here? They say they say I have. I say, "Show it to me." We cannot touch it. So, there is an invisible part of us, the spiritual part of us. All of us are spirit beings, whether you're traditional, whether you go to church, whether you You are a spirit being first and foremost. And the relationship we have with the Lord is that Christians have God to connect with their spirit and then plant his his spirit to help us um align with him. I don't want to get into to spiritual conversation. Yes, I don't want to I'm very careful not to get to where I'm not supposed to get to, but the point I'm making here is that marriage, if you subscribe to the institution of marriage, there are principles that govern marriage. Because we all get in on the point of love. I love this person, I'm marrying them.

[00:56:17]That means if you have to subscribe to principles like respect, mutual respect, right? Um if you have to to be kind and empathetic, th- these are principles that govern marriage. And so um it's just that as Christians, we are given a reinforcement of the Holy Spirit to help us, you know, um be um refined every other day and aligned to But if you're going to manage it alone, it's going to be complicated. If you have to set tradition, the problem with some of these things is that they are ever changing. That's why we serve a God that doesn't change. His His position is the same, and you either align yourself with it or you don't. But now tradition, if it changes today and they say, "Oh, by the way, now um culture has said this," then you have to be changing all the time to align yourself with culture. [clears throat] So, I really feel um that's we we the the marriage that we have, we have to know, and I'm I'm building on your point, Reverend, that people don't know what they are Can I call it a club? Can I Can I just risk and call it a club?

[00:57:35]If you People love the idea of marriage, but they don't have an idea how this is going supposed to run.

[00:57:44]Right? That's why I mean I've interacted with cases I I've interfaced cases that someone marries, but the next minute they just desire to be to live single.

[00:57:57]You know, because they don't want to to align themselves with the [clears throat] responsibility it comes with, the the kind of unlearning you have to do. Now I'm no longer single, I have to go up higher because every level requires a different you. So, now that I'm married and I'm the head, you for instance have heard about I'm the head, I'm the leader of the How do you lead a family that you have no idea about? You know, you're you're not home, you don't know how your family is running, but I'm the boss, I'm the leader. So, the responsibility it comes with, people don't know that that's what it's asking of me. So, every club Rotary. Go to Rotary. You can't do things how you want. how you want. You know, I recently I was enrolling into golf, and they said, "We don't just accept any attire.

[00:58:50]So, you have to go to this shop where and get this attire. That's what we allow on the golf course." You understand? So, if you could allow me to use that, people don't know that you don't run marriage any way. There are certain things that are going to govern marriage. So, don't just desire marriage, you have to align yourself with the principles that govern that. And in any case, God has called I mean, this is God's project. So, whether you want to call yourself atheist or what, but be married, it's going to be harder because God uh if Christians also um if you want to just appear Christian and are not aligning yourself with the principles of of Christianity, then it's going to be very difficult. Then I also wanted to say um Rachel that uh that uh what people are not getting right right from the start is not knowing that they have to get skills to manage a relationship.

[00:59:54]Right? Now, um I I'll use an example. I was talking to someone who's going to get married. They are organizing their wedding. We have programs um like premarital counseling, premarital counseling and relationship coaching, where we are able to talk about the conflict management, the communication. This is what it looks like, the roles, the new role, the rather the the the new platform where we are exercising our roles and changing roles in marriage and all these conversations. It's a 12 uh session uh program that we run here. So, someone called me and said, um "Dr. Evans, we've finally um set our date and we are going to we are going to do what? We're going to wed." I said, "That's great.

[01:00:42]Congratulations, but we want to do your program." I said, "That's fine." She said, "How much is it?" So, I told her the cost.

[01:00:50]And then she said, "Huh!

[01:00:53]But you have to reduce for us because you see we are organizing like, you know, how costly it is?

[01:01:03]And I know how costly it is. I I mean, I recently had a wedding for my daughter and decoration alone was 58 million. Can you imagine that?

[01:01:14]Ridiculously high.

[01:01:16]And then she's the cost that I was talking about for premarital counseling is not even a hundredth of that.

[01:01:25]But then she's asking, "Can you reduce for us because you see Now, I I I I don't want to sound funny, but you see I said I want you to know that what we are doing here is actually giving you more value than than the flowers that are going to wither the following day.

[01:01:46]And this is a skill. This is important.

[01:01:49]This is anchoring.

[01:01:51]You're going to go into this institution with something, not with just a skill called love, but you're going to have skills to manage family.

[01:02:02]Because marriage is a start of family.

[01:02:05]So, how do you get in and you're completely clueless about how to manage?

[01:02:11]This is a management platform. So, if you asked people need to pay attention.

[01:02:16]And then of course to grow. Like now we we we organize sessions for for marriage people married people to come and have conversation and be interested. I think that's what I would ask people to do.

[01:02:28]At the start, but also be interested in learning.

[01:02:33]You know, be interested in learning.

[01:02:35]Scripture in in Numbers, I think Numbers 3 where God was saying, "Where are you going? You've not been there before."

[01:02:42]So, be sure to be led by the to follow the ark of the Lord. It is the same thing. People are going into something they have not been into, but they are not ready to learn.

[01:02:53]Yeah. So, I think learning and picking skills, that is important.

[01:02:58]I think that we can talk about why marriage is a failing for an entire month and explore the reasons. I want us to kind of wrap up on a positive note. I guess what you would leave with the audience in terms of building lasting marriages. Obviously, even that is not going to be exhaustive, but um if someone woke you up at 3:00 a.m. and said, "My marriage is failing or I intend to get married, um what would that piece of advice be for me to build a lasting marriage? What's that thing that they can hold on to? A word, a piece of advice, a philosophy, a way of life, maybe something that has anchored the both of you or maybe that you have seen would actually be um solution to marriages today.

[01:03:45]In closing.

[01:03:49]Are you up next? You want her to go first? Well, okay.

[01:03:54]Um So, just to piggyback on what she's been uh sharing, um the principles of marriage uh cut across.

[01:04:10]Now, the only advice I can give I give from my place of my identity. I I belong to Jesus and therefore that's the only thing that's the only thing I can I can share.

[01:04:24]I I do not since we have said that marriage is found fundamentally uh started by God and it is ultimately for him.

[01:04:38]Anyone who pursues it we need to first address the the why.

[01:04:46]Why are you getting Why are you getting into this?

[01:04:50]Um There are usually four four reasons.

[01:04:55]The first one is you people usually go in because they want children.

[01:04:59]Um And if children are going to be your reason for going into a marriage, when they leave the house, so will the marriage.

[01:05:09]I will see 30-year-old marriages end in divorce.

[01:05:12]The other is the couple-centered marriage, where they go in and it's about them. It's about them and against the world.

[01:05:22]When that happens is you see the expectations on the other person are because you've idolized them. You think they're going to give you things only God should give you.

[01:05:33]This sense of security, the sense of of of happiness and joy.

[01:05:37]And when they don't, they cease to be the idols on the altar of God you truly worship, which is yourself, and now become the the sacrifice.

[01:05:49]Cut them with your words, cut them with your attitude, cut them with your silence.

[01:05:53]The the the other is usually the business-centered marriage, where we're going into this thing because we're going together. We make money together.

[01:06:03]We build empires together. We do these things. Or pay bills. Yeah, or pay bills. Yes.

[01:06:09]Um and it is just a utilitarian marriage um and there you will not experience the efficacy of love. Finally, the Christ-centered one.

[01:06:19]Um and I think that for me that's the one I would I would encourage uh to get into is first and foremost know who Christ is for you to you. And then we can begin to evaluate marriage on that standard.

[01:06:36]Um and what what it means for me who belongs to Jesus to come into this space and reveal this Jesus to my partner.

[01:06:48]And so, it is not anymore about me.

[01:06:52]It is about him and how he reveals himself through me to the other person.

[01:06:58]My love as Christians we believe God is love.

[01:07:02]Therefore, if I say I love this person, I'm simply saying I am revealing God to you.

[01:07:09]It is not just affections, it is not just my feelings, which are great and they're part of it.

[01:07:15]It is not just that I'm leaving out principles, but that I am actually in doing all of [snorts] these things extending who God is, his grace, his love, his mercy through me as a vessel.

[01:07:27]That's what I would leave for especially Christians out there who have gone into this thing not knowing what it means to count the cost in a Christian marriage. I like that.

[01:07:40]Yeah, um just to add to that, um I I I think to my advice would be don't get into marriage to be superior.

[01:07:50]Yeah.

[01:07:51]Because that is becoming a problem. Um there's no one person that is more important than their partner in the marriage. And so, that is something that's what we started with, Reverend.

[01:08:02]Uh selfishness. And uh it's so simple.

[01:08:05]Don't do to your partner what you wouldn't want done to you. It is very very simple.

[01:08:11]And and so, that's that's number one.

[01:08:13]Number two, uh I would I would I would I would advise people to um to allow marriage to train them.

[01:08:24]Marriage is a very interesting um training center.

[01:08:30]And um apparently, I don't I mean, Reverend, I don't know how long you've been married, Rachel. You've been married. I've been married um I'm in my 30th year now.

[01:08:41]And I'm different, but I'm better.

[01:08:46]There are certain things I've learned.

[01:08:48]Um if you if you're going to make a decision, if you've been making decisions alone, now you're working as a team. If you want to learn leadership, you're going to learn it at home. Home trains us. Unfortunately, people run to act in the public space and they don't allow some some of these things to teach us, our private relationships to teach us. Marriage teaches us to be better.

[01:09:11]Marriage, if you allow it, it can refine you. You see, if you it it it helps to get selfishness out of us because now you're sharing life with someone. And all the other relationships don't measure up to marriage. This is a very deep relationship spiritually and so if you allow it, you can actually learn skills like emotional emotional regulation. You've had people who say me I just say it as I as I want.

[01:09:43]But your partner Yes, if your partner tells you no, I don't like the way you say things to me.

[01:09:50]That is training and it's going to help you relate with other people in the workplace. And it's going to make you a better parent. So if if we allow marriage to teach us patience, to teach us regulation, to teach us tolerance, to teach us, you know, these are skills that help a person to be better. So I I I want to really leave this to people not because most of the time we don't allow marriage to teach us. We run away and then we we go and say, "I know I could not put up with that. I couldn't put up with that." But you're not allowing marriage to teach you.

[01:10:25]Then uh related to that, I think I would also give advice to people. Please learn.

[01:10:31]Learn. Learn how to live with another person.

[01:10:34]You know, don't glamorize the single mindset. No. If you're married, be ready to learn. How does it look like? Be curious.

[01:10:44]You know, recently I learned that actually again we have a challenge here.

[01:10:48]We are not curious.

[01:10:50]What does it mean? Now you've heard people be dismissive.

[01:10:55]Men are Oh, women are high maintenance.

[01:10:59]You know, they say, "Me I that's not me." You see, learn. If you you didn't know how to give gifts, learn to give gifts. You see, don't start glamorizing how you you never celebrated a birthday.

[01:11:12]You see, I've heard people say, "I've never celebrated my own birthday. How can my partner have an expectation on that?" No, the rule of the game now is that you learn to give flowers and your hand is not going to fall off.

[01:11:26]You see, so if anything you haven't known now, learn it. Learn it, but also unlearn being selfish and learn grow.

[01:11:37]Grow be better. Be better. Be better.

[01:11:41]You see, these are simple little things that that will help you to to be better.

[01:11:48]And then finally, I also wanted to say don't don't try marriage. Don't do it.

[01:11:56]You see, don't try marriage because there's there's so many trial marriages and they are hurting people. Rachel, we run a whole session on on cohabitation.

[01:12:06]And people are saying, "Let me just put one leg there."

[01:12:11]Then if it works that is going to hurt you because the principle the major principle in successful marriages is commitment.

[01:12:23]You don't build a house by just looking at it from the side and you say, "Let me see how it's going to look like." Marriage is a building project and you cannot manage you cannot build by trying by trial.

[01:12:39]Uh I really want to emphasize this because trial marriages are affecting people and I know they are many and some of you who are in trial marriages, you can actually commit because commitment is a mind issue. Um when you commit, the the you have your body is going to your entire being is going to release resources to manage the project. Now you close out all the other options and you say, "I'm going to do this well." But if you're in a relationship where you're saying, "You know, if it fails, then actually the your your your being is going to release possibilities of failure." That's where your mind is going to be and you're going to focus more. There's going your mindset is going to be about failure rather than success. So I would really encourage people, please commit. Don't try out marriage. It's like building a tent.

[01:13:39]Have you seen people paint a tent or decorate it? No. If you set up a tent, it's a tent. It's temporal. So there is that temporal mindset to a relationship that is not going to help you in the long term. And so don't try it out. Plus um trial marriages are failing more than committed ones. And I remember asking people when we ran that that episode, I said um four out of No, it was four out of uh of of every 10 cohabiting marriages are failing.

[01:14:21]Four in every 10.

[01:14:24]And so I asked a question, "If you are to take medication and they say every four of the 10 people that commit rather take this medication die, how many of you would take it?" So we need to know that these these marriages are Actually it was a bigger percentage.

[01:14:42]It was bigger. The four was for committed, but the other one was I think seven seven.

[01:14:49]Seven out of 10. And so they say every seven people who take this medication die, how many people would take that medication? So I think we just need to know that trying out in relationships, especially in marriage, don't try it.

[01:15:04]Don't try it. Commit and then put someone all your resources or your mental resources and physical resources to do that.

[01:15:11]And finally finally finally if I want to ask people to seek help.

[01:15:17]You see, seek help for your marriage.

[01:15:19]Seek help from from from the church.

[01:15:22]Seek help from professionals because you're not going to run this alone. And as I mentioned earlier, we are never trained enough to marriage to manage these relationships. So you need help.

[01:15:33]Speak to a therapist. That's why we have been trained to support you. We took all the time to learn how to help people in marriages and so give us work.

[01:15:44]Let us support you and and let your marriages up Seeking help has never been a sign of weakness. It's actually a sign of strength.

[01:15:53]You see, if you speak to a therapist, they're going to see things differently.

[01:15:57]They're going to help you overcome your self-centeredness.

[01:16:01]They're going to equip you with skills.

[01:16:03]That's what therapy does. It helps to equip skills for problem-solving and relationship building. So seek help.

[01:16:10]Seek help. And the church will remind you who centers your marriage. Who should be at the center of your marriage.

[01:16:17]So yeah, don't don't die in the marriage and hang in there and be miserable. There's help that is available for you. Um that's it from us.

[01:16:26]I I really would like to say thank you to Reverend Gideon for being here and offering us, you know, your perspective on why we think marriages are failing and of course offering hope at the end of it all.

[01:16:39]Um thank you um Dr. Eva's as well for your insights.

[01:16:45]Um we really appreciate it. Um if you are interested or maybe you have an event, um maybe 200 to 250 people, I CFC conference hall is actually available for hire. It's in Bukoto, so very accessible and it's on the third floor of TMT atrium building. So come by the I CFC office and get your booking in so you can take advantage of this wonderful space. It's quite spacious. Um it has some amenities available for you. The bathrooms, the parking is ample.

[01:17:17]You want to come and try this out here in Bukoto. So that's it from us.

[01:17:22]Please do give this episode a thumbs up and leave us a comment. Um I know that this is one of those conversations that elicits many kinds of responses because people are dealing with all kinds of things, you know, in their marriages.

[01:17:37]If there's something you feel like we didn't tackle please let us know in the comments. If you have an addition to why you think marriages are failing, leave it in the comments as well and we'll hear back from you or rather see you again next week on Reality Check. Until then, stay well and stay healthy. Bye-bye.