Best Used EVs, Renting with Turo + Sixt, Rivian Reliability + Owner Satisfaction | Talking Cars #505

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:11]Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode. I'm Mike Monttoello.

[00:00:14]>> I'm John Williams.

[00:00:15]>> And I'm Aubrey Wishard.

[00:00:16]>> So today, backed by popular demand is another one of our all questions all the time episodes. And that means instead of talking about a specific vehicle that we drove recently, we're going to uh dig deep into the CR mailbag and answer some of the very best questions we've gotten from you folks recently. And speaking of those questions, the best way to get them to us is to uh text the questions, comments, video clips to talking cars aticloud.com.

[00:00:44]Uh and remember to kind of like a more incentive to give you an amazing question. If we use the question on the show, we one of our producers will send you some CR branded swag. So that's pretty neat. Uh so with that, let's dive right into the questions. And the first one comes from Shad from Witchah, Kansas. And Shad says, "My wife and I are currently in the market for a compact SUV. We like our current 2020 Subaru Forester. So we are strongly considering a new Forester hybrid. While listening to your podcast about it, one complaint was that it doesn't do simulated upshifts since it uses the guts of the Toyota hybrid system. Our current Forester does simulated upshifts and I cannot figure out why it is considered a good thing since a CVT or ECBT can both can dial in a gear ratio shouldn't either be able to be tuned to keep the engine RPMs down while accelerating or is this a case where a lot of drivers are used to the upshifts and feel better when they can sense the car shifting even if it is just simulated. I mean it's an excellent question and actually we do get quite a lot of comments with people sort of disagreeing with our opinions that you know our feeling that we typically like simulated upshifts. So John I'm going to send this to you first. Uh what's what's you know what do you what's your response here basically?

[00:01:59]>> Yeah well it is a really great question um Chad and like you said Monty we do get a lot of comments saying like oh I can't stand simulate upshifts or I really like them. So it is kind of something that splits people's opinions right. Um, the reality, you kind of touched on it in the last part of your question, Shad, is why the manufacturers do it is really, it's less about efficiency. In fact, it's probably less efficient to do these simulated upshifts, but it's more about providing a more pleasant experience for the driver. So, if you think about a lot of these hybrid systems, most of them have smaller four-cylinder engines that don't make a ton of power on their own, right, without the assistance of the electric motors in the hybrid system. So, as you said, CVTs can dial in a gear ratio, but we can't fight physics, right? The reality is that a tiny engine has to rev out pretty high to make enough power at highway speeds to accelerate and things like that. Um, so simulated shifts are really about keeping the RPMs lower.

[00:02:59]We're letting them climb a little bit so that we can make that power to accelerate, but we're not leaving them, you know, at 6 7,000 RPM like the Toyota system does.

[00:03:08]>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I couldn't agree more. It's, you know, it's we call it quite often like a rubber banding sensation. And if anyone who's ever ridden a snowmobile or has heard a snowmobile, that's what they do, right?

[00:03:19]it's that the RPMs uh are constantly going up and down with even just a small increase in throttle or decrease in throttle is going to change the revs.

[00:03:29]And when you and there's a discordancy be that's probably not a word, but let's say discordancy anyway between uh the your gas pedal pressure and how high the revs go up and also then sometimes the lack of acceleration, right? And I think that's what we find annoying if you're on a really long moderately steep climb that CVT or ECVT, even though they're kind of different, but a ECVT operates very similar to a convent uh continuously variable transmission. You end up with these sustained high revs that is just kind of annoying, especially because a lot of these little four-cylinders are kind of don't sound that great. So, what they're trying to do, especially like a company like Honda with their hybrid system, they do these um uh up simulated upshifts purely to bring the revs back down so it's more palatable, right?

[00:04:18]>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's all about just breaking up the monotony, right?

[00:04:22]Especially, you see this a lot in the Toyota hybrid systems where you give it just a little bit of gas and the RPMs just fly up.

[00:04:29]>> Um and Toyotas, as far as I know, don't do any simulated upshifts. Um, so in some ways it's nice to see it on the Subaru. Um, but to John's point, it doesn't really make the car more efficient. It probably makes it less efficient. Um, and uh, it it really comes down to preference, right?

[00:04:47]>> Yeah. And I think like you said, Aubrey, it's a preference thing. And it's important to point out that while a lot of us here at the track do prefer them, it's not something that directly affects our scoring. We're not going and looking at does a car do simulated upshifts?

[00:05:01]we're going to add points, we're going to take points away, that kind of thing.

[00:05:03]It's really the result of what those simulated upshifts do or don't do that impacts the score. So, for instance, a car that does not do them that really lets the RPMs climb and stay really high, that might negatively impact its noise score. If, like you said, Monty, it has that kind of gritty engine character that you're listening to for a long time.

[00:05:21]>> Um, and kind of the opposite is true too of a car that >> does simulated upshifts. If it does them uh kind of rough, we might actually take transmission points away, >> which does happen sometimes. It does.

[00:05:32]Yep. Okay, cool. All right. Well, hopefully that answers the question.

[00:05:36]Let's move on to our next one from Joe.

[00:05:39]Joe says, "Regarding your ratings for Rivian EVs, why is there such a big discrepancy between consumer satisfaction and overall reliability?

[00:05:48]That is, it has terrible reliability, but owners seem to love them. One would think they would go hand in hand. I I think it's an super interesting question and I would almost call it an interesting phenomenon and I say that because we see this sometimes in our auto surveys that we do every year where there are some vehicles that have poor reliability yet they have high owner satisfaction scores and I was talking to uh one of our data analysts Steve Ell uh and he said um it's really owner owner satisfaction is mostly about whether a vehicle meets expectations, right? So, if you buy uh a Rivian for the character, the novelty, the driving range, or the cool factor, the vehicles definitely deliver to what the owners are looking for. And he thinks right now a lot of people, this is just his theory, are buying Rivians, aren't expecting strong reliability. They know it's a pretty new uh company with new vehicles. So, if there are some problems, it's not typically going to hurt their own owner satisfaction scores that they give versus say a Toyota or a Lexus where you expect good reliability and if you don't, you're going to be kind of upset, right?

[00:06:58]>> Yeah. Yeah. And to your point, like if you buy a Toyota and it's not reliable, well, that just goes in the face of the reason you bought it in the first place, >> right? You're expecting that.

[00:07:06]>> You're expecting it. But if you if I guess if you buy a new car from a new manufacturer, you maybe you do expect it to have some problems and that's fine because you didn't buy it to for the reliability.

[00:07:17]>> Yeah. And if if if you uh I I looked at some of the quotes or verbatims as we call them from our uh survey uh from some Rivian owners and I'm just going to read a couple cuz they're really interesting like how much they love these vehicles. All right. So this is from an owner of a 2022 R1T. So that's the pickup. They say it's fun, versatile, and comfortable. Incredible storage, amazing acceleration, and it's nice looking. I mostly charge at home and never stop at gas stations except to use the bathroom. No maintenance except I will need new tires. An owner of a 2024 R1S, the SUV says, "It does everything and has limitless power and manners on the road and capabilities in snow and off-road are beyond belief. We love just charging it at home." And the last one is uh 2025 uh R1T. This owner says, "The 2025 R1T is the absolute best all-around vehicle that I've ever owned, even better than my previous 2022 Rivian R1T. The vehicle is a near-perfect amalgam of comfort, utility, performance, efficiency, and environmental responsibility."

[00:08:18]>> Wow.

[00:08:18]>> What do you think about that?

[00:08:20]>> Yeah.

[00:08:20]>> Yeah. I mean, >> it makes sense, right? Why they're giving them high owner satisfaction scores.

[00:08:24]>> Yeah. Their vehicles really are unique when you think about it, too, right?

[00:08:27]Like the truck has that gear storage tunnel that I don't know of another EV that has anything like that. Um it has kind of all these features geared towards people who love going outside and going on all these adventures. They do market them as adventure vehicles, right? So it's kind of not just necessarily an image thing, but also all the features that they offer. And >> yeah, reliability doesn't tell the whole story.

[00:08:49]>> Yeah, they also I mean they handle pretty well and they're really fast for trucks. Are they the fastest pickup trucks? They might be. Well, especially too if you're coming from a regular gas powered car and getting into a Rivian, it's Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're blown away, right? No comparison. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's an interesting phenomenon. It makes sense. It's a little odd. It's both >> It makes sense and it's odd at the same time that you would >> Is this kind of like the Wrangler thing?

[00:09:13]>> 100%. That's actually what he called it.

[00:09:15]He called it, Steve called it the uh the R Jeep Wrangler effect is what he called it because the Wrangler has been notoriously unreliable for a long time >> and they haven't changed it in a long time.

[00:09:25]>> They haven't changed in a long time.

[00:09:26]>> People love them.

[00:09:27]>> The owners love them, right? And we know they're unreliable and they don't care because they love their vehicle. And again, I think there's a little bit of an image thing there, right? They like >> And I'm not picking on their owners, but they love that they drive Jeeps. That's why they put those little yellow ducks all over the >> Yeah.

[00:09:42]>> Right. or park up on a curb.

[00:09:44]>> Or park up on a curb. Yeah.

[00:09:46]>> Yeah.

[00:09:46]>> All right. So, let's move on to uh another question. This one is from Robert. And Robert says, "Thanks for doing the show. I listen to all the episodes. Not quite sure if you guys are true EV folks yet. Do any of you own one personally, but I would be curious as to your thoughts on a couple of EV choices?

[00:10:05]My wife is looking to get an EV. She has a thrice weekly commute of 100 mi roundtrip and averages about 20,000 m per year. We did not intend to, but ended up using our Ford F-150 SR Lightning as a trip vehicle because it is so smooth and quiet. We are looking for something with around a 300 mile range and a decent charging curve to use for her commute and also trips. She's been drawn to Audi and Honda styling, looking used as that seems the best value in the market, hoping to stay between $30 to $40,000. Aubrey, I'm going to put you on the spot. Uh, what's what is your answer for Robert?

[00:10:42]>> Uh, well, Robert, good question. Um, looking used is definitely the right way to go right now, >> especially for EVs.

[00:10:49]>> Yeah, especially for EVs. That the resale value absolutely craters. Um, I mean, we we have sold some EVs for half of what we bought them for just a year later.

[00:10:58]>> Yeah.

[00:10:59]>> So, it's a good value for for the used market. Certainly a reason maybe not to buy a new one. Um, as far as, you know, between Honda and Audi, well, Honda currently only has one EV, uh, the Prologue. And it's not really a Honda.

[00:11:14]It's, uh, it's a GM, right? It's the GM Ultium architecture underneath. It's very similar to the Blazer EV, Cadillac, Lyric, and uh the reliability has not been very good on these. Uh certainly the 2024 models were the least reliable.

[00:11:32]They got a little bit better in 25 and 26, but they still don't do very well in our surveys for reliability.

[00:11:37]>> Mhm.

[00:11:38]>> Um there's also some rumors that the Prologue is going to be discontinued at the end of this year.

[00:11:43]>> Um I haven't seen any official word on that, but it seems likely given what's going on in the EV market. So, I would be a little bit cautious about buying a car that might be discontinued and has poor reliability.

[00:11:55]>> Um, as far as the Audi's go, there's a few used options that might be worth considering. The 2024 Q8 Ron has an EPA range of 285 mi. Um, we didn't test the range on this, but generally with the other Audi EVs that we've tested, they tend to go around their EPA range, if not a little bit longer. So, you should be good for your 300 mile commute there.

[00:12:19]Um, the 24 you can pick up for between 30 to 40,000. It also has a fairly good reliability score. Um, 67 out of 100 in our surveys. Um, another one to consider, and this surprised me even, the Q6 RON, which just came out last year, you can already pick up a 25 model for around 35 to 55, which is like a 20 to $30,000 savings over when it was brand new. Um, this one has an EPA range of 295. It achieved 285 miles in our 70 mph highway range test, but one thing to keep in mind, its reliability score isn't quite as good as the Q8.

[00:13:00]>> Mhm.

[00:13:00]>> Uh, but I would say between the Hond's and the Audi's, the Audi's are going to perform better and be quieter. So, that's something to consider as well.

[00:13:08]>> Yeah. And to that end, if you either don't mind spending a little more money or waiting another year or so, the we actually kind of prefer the A6 RON over the Q6 RON. Uh but so >> different form factor, but >> yeah, you'd be hardressed to to, you know, you'd be lucky to get one in the low $40,000 range right now. So, it's a little out of the price range, but we just uh it is more of a sleek kind of uh vehicle than the Q6 is more like an an SUV, >> but we did prefer generally the driving experience of of the A6. That's a good point. Little better ride, but you're going to have to pay more right now. So, >> right. Yeah, that that's kind of why I left it out just because it's it came out after the Q6.

[00:13:55]>> I couldn't find any for under like 45,000, >> but give it a month. Give it two months.

[00:14:00]You might find it under 40.

[00:14:02]>> Absolutely. Okay. Uh let's move on. Oh, go ahead. Please.

[00:14:05]>> I was going to throw one more option in there.

[00:14:08]>> So, not an Audi or Honda, but where you're already coming from the Ford F-150 Lightning, I think another option potentially worth considering would be a Mustang Mache. So, that car got a little bit lower of a road test score compared to the Audi Q4 Ron, which is kind of the same sized SUV, but it got better owner satisfaction in our surveys. and um also better reliability verdicts than the Q4.

[00:14:31]Um it has the 300 mile range that you're looking for and because you're coming from the Lightning, a lot of the controls, especially the screen, are going to be really similar. So, you're not going to have to go and learn all of, you know, Audi's convoluted controls. But, >> yeah, glad I didn't completely cut you off there. That was a good point.

[00:14:47]>> All right, let's move on to Gordon from Atlanta, Georgia.

[00:14:52]Gordon says, "Is or was there a standard for the placement of turn signal lenses on the rear of vehicles? I have noticed that several manufacturers have moved the amber or red turn signals from the main rear tail light cluster to the bumper. I find this annoying. It moves your line of sight downward, and if the car gets rearended, you lose your working turn signals, which are now cracked and broken inside the damaged rear bumper. Also, if you are in bumper-to-bumper traffic, you may not be able to see the activated turn signal uh which you can't cannot see. Change is not always a good thing. So, uh if you the the the answer is there is a regulation for this. And if you go to the photo the the federal motor vehicle safety standard 49 CFR 571.108 108 or as I like to refer to it, title 49, subtitle B, chapter 5, part 571, subart B.

[00:15:47]>> That's how I remembered it.

[00:15:48]>> I mean, that's >> I I knew it was in there.

[00:15:50]>> Yeah.

[00:15:51]>> It's hard to believe we get anything done in this country.

[00:15:54]>> Anyway, um so what it specifies for the automakers is that the turn signals have to be mounted not less than 15 in from the ground and not more than 83 in. Did I say that right? They can't be lower than 15 in from the ground and they can't be higher than 83 in.

[00:16:13]>> 83 in.

[00:16:14]>> That's taller than most cars.

[00:16:16]>> I know. I'm thinking maybe that's related to trucks.

[00:16:18]>> Yeah, there's some language in there about semi trucks as well, but in that's not that high.

[00:16:23]>> That's pretty low.

[00:16:24]>> But totally get the point of you do see these. There's a few cars out there that do have these the um turn signals and the bumpers and it's like that doesn't make any sense other than from maybe a styling standpoint, but >> bumpers get hit.

[00:16:39]>> Yeah.

[00:16:40]>> Why would you take a chance on that?

[00:16:41]>> Another part of it is that I think part of maybe that standard or similar standard is the turn signals have to remain visible if the tailgate or trunk is open.

[00:16:50]>> So if you have your hazards on and you're parked on the side of the highway, they still have to be visible.

[00:16:54]Um, so in some cases, if the manufacturers choose to to style the car with the tail lights on the hatch or tailgate, >> they have to move the the signals downward, right? Or out of the way.

[00:17:07]>> Yeah. So, that's another reason.

[00:17:09]>> Yeah. Interesting. Okay.

[00:17:11]>> But yeah, I mean, there's there's a few, you know, very common cars that do this, though.

[00:17:14]>> What do we got?

[00:17:15]>> We got the uh Hyundai Kona and Tucson.

[00:17:18]>> Yep.

[00:17:19]>> And the Kia Sportage and Carnival. And the Hyundai Santa Fe doesn't really have them in the bumper, but its whole tail light assembly is so low on the rear of the vehicle that they may as well be.

[00:17:30]So, it kind of seems like there's a common offender here.

[00:17:34]>> Yeah, we won't name names.

[00:17:37]>> No, >> but you were going to say something.

[00:17:40]>> Yeah. No, I think that >> as long as that freedom is there, manufacturers are always going to prioritize styling, right? That's the one thing that is going to >> lure someone to look at the car in the first place. Yeah. So, >> they care less, unfortunately, about >> your concerns here and our shared concerns and more about Yeah. Let's make it look good.

[00:17:59]>> Yep. All right. Next up, we have a video question. And, you know, I've said it before, uh, but we do love the video questions because we love to see your your smiling faces, love to see who's talking to us, and we love sometimes people, you know, get a little creative with the backgrounds. And in this case, we have a video from Daniel in uh Jackson, Tennessee, who looks to be sitting in a Nissan Arya. So, let's see what what uh Daniel's talking about today.

[00:18:26]I was wondering, do you think that the supply chain issues for petrol will encourage GM to extend the limited run on the Equinox EV? The Equinox EV is getting really high marks for battery longevity, range, affordability, ease of use, and it's kind of a surprise. Uh, it's again like the EV1, a pity if they take it out of the market too soon. What do you think?

[00:18:56]>> All right, so Daniel has some points and some questions about the Equinox EV. Uh, John, what what are your answers?

[00:19:02]>> Yeah, well, first off, Daniel, thanks for the question. can totally understand your concerns about EVs being discontinued, especially because it does look like you are coming to us from a discontinued in the US market EV, the Nissan Aaria. Um, and also totally hear you on your concerns as far as, you know, how the global economy might be potentially influencing manufacturer decisions. That said, we haven't heard anything definite from any credible source that the Equinox EV is being discontinued. Um, it seems like it's a pretty high volume seller right now for GM as far as EVs go. Um, so we would hope that they'll continue it for a little bit longer. And you're absolutely right that it did do a lot of things well in our testing. Had a comfortable ride, really smooth powertrain. It's generally easy to live with other than a few usability quirks. I think that's kind of one of the big things for me is that it's nice. You know, so many EVs, it seems like they try and put a bunch of new fangled either controls or or uh odd door handles or just too many weird things that like uh make living with them a little more difficult than they have to be.

[00:20:07]>> No door handles.

[00:20:08]>> It but it's in general, it's pretty easy to drive and and >> Yeah. And the controls are the same as any other GM from the last couple years.

[00:20:15]So, >> right.

[00:20:17]And it it is worth mentioning too that right now of those shared GM Honda platform EVs, it has the best reliability of the bunch. Not saying it has good reliability, but it has currently our data shows it having average reliability, whereas the others are all below average. So, we'll see if that changes as we get more data on it, but for now, >> it's another >> positive for it. So maybe not a bad way for Daniel to go uh if he's thinking about that and or may not have to jump on it right now either because it looks like it might be around for a little while at least.

[00:20:52]>> Yeah, I would think so.

[00:20:54]>> Okay.

[00:20:54]>> Yeah.

[00:20:55]>> All right. And we have another video question this time from Andrew from Connecticut. Let's hear what Andrew is asking us today.

[00:21:02]>> Hey, Talking Cars. Love the show. Uh first time long time. Uh just a quick question about rental cars. Um I'm going to California with my wife this summer.

[00:21:10]We're going to a wedding and we're flying into San Francisco and we're going to drive down the Pacific Coast Highway to Malibu where the wedding is.

[00:21:17]Um, we did this trip in 2018 and I rented a convertible with the hopes of getting a Camaro or a Mustang and long story short, got a Buick Cascata with broken lumbar. Um, still a great trip, but I want to kind of avoid that situation again. So my question is which category from the rental company would you choose knowing that there's this or equivalent statement meaning you can get a midsize car like a Toyota Camry or an equivalent? So which one of those categories is the least scary to you?

[00:21:46]Which one would you pick? And um yeah, what should I do? Thanks guys. Great show.

[00:21:52]>> All right. So uh that background looks eerily similar uh to something I've walked through recently and maybe you guys have as well. Uh, >> Andrew looks a little familiar, too.

[00:22:02]>> He does. Yeah.

[00:22:03]>> Can't put my finger on it, but I do like his hair do.

[00:22:07]>> Um, okay. And to be fair, uh, Andrew is one of our video producers, and he it really is a legitimate question that he he is wondering about. So, we need to do our very best for our coworker, uh, to answer this question. So, John, do you want to go first?

[00:22:21]>> Sure. Yeah. I mean, he's absolutely right that the where they get you with the rental categories is the or similar, right? Everybody knows a Buick is nowhere close to a Mustang, but that's what poor Andrew got stuck with the last time. So, with the categories, I mean, I would say especially if you're going to go with a sedan, you want to start with at least an intermediate or full size, either of those categories, cuz otherwise you will be stuck with something small. Even if you just pick like small sedan, they might throw you down to a compact and then you're stuck, you know, in a Nissan Versa or something like that that you don't want to be in.

[00:22:55]Um, but yeah, I mean with the categories, you really don't have that much room. That's just kind of how these mainstream companies operate. So, I mean, if he wants to spend the money, he could jump up to the luxury category.

[00:23:06]>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We're going to have to >> So, you knocked your iPad over.

[00:23:11]>> But, yeah. Now, these categories don't really allow you as the renter a lot of flexibility. Um, if Andrew wants to spend the money, he could step up to the luxury category and maybe get something a little bit nicer. But as far as these larger corporate rental entities, you really don't have much flexibility.

[00:23:28]>> Yeah. And uh Aubrey, what about a non-corporate uh rental entity? What do you I feel like you're going to talk about something interesting.

[00:23:36]>> Yeah. So, with the rental car agencies, you're renting a category, right? Like you said, or similar is where they get you, but another option is to use an app like Turo, um where people are renting out their personal vehicles. So, you're choosing a specific vehicle in advance, and you're going to coordinate with that person where and when you're going to pick the vehicle up. And I've used it a few times myself. They have some interesting vehicles on there. You can get some old Mercedes sports cars or you can rent a Ferrari and anything in between.

[00:24:08]>> Um, and it's it's a little bit cheaper actually usually than than renting a car through a rental agency.

[00:24:15]>> Yeah. And the the way they're saving money is that they don't have the whole brick andmortar store and they're not set up in the airports. So sometimes it can be a little bit more work to actually get the keys and get into the car. But if you want, you know, an interesting car for a vacation or a road trip, it's something to consider.

[00:24:32]>> It's like the Airbnb of of car rental, right? Totally. And the funny thing about it, though, I mean, I think it's a really neat thing uh that you can do, and I I actually know a couple people that have done it and had good experience with it. I think maybe you guys would agree with me if uh I I wouldn't rent my nice car out to anyone in a million years. Would I let would I let some stranger in my car? But all credit for these people for doing it because it's good for the rest of us.

[00:24:57]>> Um I have another option for Andrew >> which is a company called a rental car company called six s IT. And the the benefit of them, I mean, I I've actually used this company when I was uh out in California like maybe 8 years ago. And uh they kind of specialize in luxury vehicles.

[00:25:19]Sorry, >> this thing is so unstable. Like I just touch it.

[00:25:22]>> He's going to re-engineer it. Dave, don't worry. Next episode he will have re-engineered it and it's it won't fall over anymore.

[00:25:28]>> Dave hates me right now.

[00:25:30]>> Sorry for a few interruptions. Uh, our engineer over there doesn't seem to know how to hold his keep his iPad from falling over on the table. Um, >> it's okay. It's not a car.

[00:25:39]>> No, it's not a car.

[00:25:40]>> Um, anyway, so one one thought I have for Andrew is to use a a rental car company called Sixth SixT. I have you I used them when I was out in California maybe 8 years ago or something. And they kind of specialize in more higherend cars, you know, luxury vehicles, uh, German manufacturers. In this case, I uh rented a Cadillac CT6 and the price was reasonable considering what I got and the car was really nice. I mean, the CT6 back then was a nice car, but it was like you didn't feel like you were in a rental car. You know, they I think maybe they take better care of their vehicles or maybe they're just cuz they're better vehicles. Um, and so I think that is a way to go as well. You know, fiddle around with don't just do one of the regular rental car companies where you are going to get stuck with something that maybe you don't want to. when you go with a company like Sixth, >> you're going to get a good car or go with Turo >> uh and and get the exact vehicle that you want, right?

[00:26:35]>> But >> I think those are both great options for Andrew.

[00:26:37]>> Yeah. Uh okay, so uh that's going to do it for this episode. If you want to learn more about the topics and the vehicles that we talked about, you can click on the links in the show notes.

[00:26:46]Don't forget to send those questions, comments, videos to talking [email protected].

[00:26:51]And one last thing before we go, just want to remind people that um Consumer Reports is a nonprofit organization. Uh you'll notice we don't have any ads on our website or in our magazine. So uh one of the ways we get, you know, we we make do make uh keep the keep the lights on is through donations. Uh remember, unlike most automotive media outlets, we buy all of the vehicles that we test, right? And it costs a lot of money. So we do have a donate button. uh if you're watching us on YouTube and so you could help us out, support our cause to test cars and to tell you exactly how it is without any biases. So donations are part of how we keep this going. So thanks in advance. Uh also as always, our podcast was produced by Dave Abrams and edited by Andrew Bise and Anatoli Schumsky. Thanks so much for watching and we'll see you all next week.