The Man with No Plan B: Gunny Mathison | Episode 130

Added: 2026-06-01

[00:00:03]As always, we got Gunny Mat, Joe Schmidt, Kate McCutchen, and our special guest today.

[00:00:12]All right. All right. All right.

[00:00:19]>> Episode 130, Gunny Mat.

[00:00:23]>> All right, we're back for another episode of the show. As always, we got Kenny Madson, Joe Schmidt, Kate McCuchen, and our special guest.

[00:00:32]>> Kenny Madison.

[00:00:34]Justin. Justin Madison. Yeah. So, I was in a cult in New Mexico and I shot horses and I train them and it's over.

[00:00:47]>> Yeah.

[00:00:48]>> You're a janitor. You missed.

[00:00:49]>> I was a janitor.

[00:00:51]>> My life is not nearly as entertaining as Joe. So, I apologize you guys.

[00:00:55]>> Well, hey, we got to I I'm kind of enjoying this. We're going to see who gets more views.

[00:01:00]>> Oh, Joe's story. Joe's story could be a movie. What do you mean little competition here?

[00:01:07]>> Yeah, I could see it. You're going to win.

[00:01:09]>> This is going to be fun.

[00:01:10]>> No, I'm loving I love your story.

[00:01:13]>> I love your story. So, I met you when you were working in Germany >> for Harper Connor.

[00:01:24]>> I wasn't going to say it name.

[00:01:26]>> Well, you were leading horses. You weren't good enough to train for Harper as I recall.

[00:01:30]>> No, I got to show at I got to show at one show and I was the only one that made any finals. So, I didn't get to show.

[00:01:40]>> Yeah. Well, I can remember I was at the I think I was at the paternity. Would it have been the paternity or the derby?

[00:01:46]No. I remember.

[00:01:47]>> And uh Steve Archer said, "I got the guy. You need somebody. I got the guy."

[00:01:52]>> Yep.

[00:01:53]>> So then uh and then and then I called you and um you said, "I'll pay you 1,500 a month and a place to live." And I said, "Yeah, that's fine. Just give me a few days."

[00:02:08]and and by the time we got back together, you were paying a,000 bucks a month to a place to live. I said, "I don't care. I'm coming anywhere." That's how that's how ready to get out of there I was. So So grew up in Katie, Texas. I grew up in Katie, Texas. Mhm. Rode horses. Started riding horses when I was 10.

[00:02:29]>> Riding lessons.

[00:02:30]>> Big- time baseball player at some place.

[00:02:32]>> Played baseball. Yeah. From the time I could walk until high school, I won our last game as a senior.

[00:02:41]>> Uh, >> did you win State like my dad?

[00:02:44]>> No.

[00:02:46]>> Our our region was tough. We were area champions few times, regional semi-finals a couple times, but never made it to state. Our football team in high school was dominant. They won state twice, but >> Well, you didn't play football.

[00:03:00]>> No, football. People get hurt. It's not super relevant to the guy.

[00:03:04]>> Did you hurt your shoulder playing baseball?

[00:03:06]>> Didn't you hurt your shoulder or your elbow or something?

[00:03:08]>> No.

[00:03:11]>> Hurt my shoulder to talk to.

[00:03:13]>> Yeah.

[00:03:14]>> So, you started riding with Steve Archer. Yeah.

[00:03:17]>> 10 years old.

[00:03:18]>> Yeah.

[00:03:18]>> What made you want to start that down that path?

[00:03:22]>> You know what? My mother actually of all people was into riding horses. So, I just it started off as ridicons as a kid and um you know, you you go there every two weeks doing the riding lessons and then you end up buying your first horse and then you go, you know, once every week and then you go a couple times a week and you get to know the got to know the kids out there and have a bunch of lifelong friends. So >> just kind of got hooked with the people, >> you know.

[00:03:56]>> How about So that was >> Katie Katie Forest at that time, >> which is Katie Schroeder now.

[00:04:02]>> Yeah.

[00:04:02]>> Katie Good was Katie Green.

[00:04:05]>> Katie Yeah.

[00:04:06]>> There was a girl named Brianna Vanderha that all them kids won the >> They won the youth world in something.

[00:04:13]Uh they did the allaround stuff.

[00:04:16]>> Did Maverick ride there?

[00:04:18]>> Yeah. Yeah, I met Maverick there. He didn't come till later, but yeah.

[00:04:24]>> Yeah. I I can remember going to a horse show in uh maybe Austin.

[00:04:29]>> Yeah. First time I saw you show, Steve took a whole crew of horses there.

[00:04:34]>> Mhm. Yeah. We did good there.

[00:04:36]>> Yeah.

[00:04:37]>> From time to time. The first bronze trophy that I won was in Austin, Texas >> at the Governor's Classic. Ray Conrad put that show on. Yeah, >> that I won my first trophy at the Governor's Classic, too, >> in Austin.

[00:04:53]>> Yeah, I think so.

[00:04:54]>> Oh, that is what where the Governor's Classic is.

[00:04:58]>> Yeah, that's the That's where the governor.

[00:05:00]>> Yeah, but I just >> Maybe a different >> It was the late ' 90s. It was the late '9s. I just >> Yeah.

[00:05:05]>> How'd you end up in Austin? Like, weren't you?

[00:05:08]>> We went down. That was the first horse show that I went down by myself and took customers and stuff. Forgot Cinches and I borrowed him from you when uh what's his name? The neighbor I can't blanketing on his name or Andrew. And Andrew Picket gave me a bunch of singes.

[00:05:23]I never gave it back either.

[00:05:26]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:27]>> Well, this show isn't about you.

[00:05:29]>> Yeah. Joe, you're going to make my story better. Just keep talking. Okay.

[00:05:34]>> Yeah. I never hear You never hear about the Governor's Classic. Well, it's over.

[00:05:38]You know, he quit it now. But >> that's pretty interesting. You guys won the first first things.

[00:05:44]>> Yeah, that's special.

[00:05:46]>> That's cool.

[00:05:48]>> Except for you're a lot older than Kenny.

[00:05:50]>> Yeah, I was 14 when I won mine, too.

[00:05:53]>> Yeah, I was 40.

[00:05:57]>> Oh, Steve and Andrea took good care of me. They were great people to be around.

[00:06:00]They're excellent role models for young people because >> they did things the right way and they worked hard. Uh, and they're just fun to be around.

[00:06:13]>> Yeah.

[00:06:13]>> And you had a great role model in in burn.

[00:06:18]I >> mean, he's everybody in the industry that's been around at all for very long knows Burn.

[00:06:23]>> Yep.

[00:06:24]>> Following you around. There's nobody prouder you than Burn. I remember him taking me, I might have told you this story before, but I remember him taking me school uh clothes shopping before the school year. It's the first time I ever went with him to the mall and stuff. And about 30 minutes into it, I said, "Br, you can't be so nice to people. You got to have a little [ __ ] in you. You cannot say hello to everybody that walks by in a mall." I mean, hey, how you doing? Hey, how you doing? Like, that was rude. And the nicest guy, didn't he?

[00:06:57]Like he was a boxer and stuff, right?

[00:06:59]>> Yeah. Yeah. We used to box growing up.

[00:07:01]>> Yeah.

[00:07:01]>> Yeah. We quit boxing when I knocked one of his front teeth out.

[00:07:05]>> When I got big enough to break a tooth, we quit boxing in the backyard. How old were you then?

[00:07:11]>> I can't remember. 12.

[00:07:15]>> Uh, that's what was that ba? You had a really good bay horse >> when I rode with Steve.

[00:07:22]>> Yeah, I had two. I had two really good bay horses actually. I had one named Almanubar Bay.

[00:07:28]>> Yeah, that's the one I'm thinking.

[00:07:29]>> And Steve made the finals of the paternity on them and I did good at the Lazy E one year. Did good at the derby on him and then we sold him and the next one I had was named a country custom and Steve made the finals of eternity on him too. And I I won more on that horse than I did the did the other one.

[00:07:54]reserve at the youth world. Uh won the Governor's Classic for the second time on him.

[00:08:03]Yeah, we had we had good horses. Uh I was fortunate as a kid. Our first horse was just a a red dung geling named Dung by Doc. And uh he was 2500 bucks, but he didn't know a lick about raining. But Steve helped us turn them into raining horse. I marked a 70 on here and there.

[00:08:29]And then uh the next one actually was a rain horse. It her name was Miss Rona Wood.

[00:08:34]>> I remember that name.

[00:08:35]>> And we bought her from Trent Topson. The Topson family was a big customer of Steve's. And Trent showed her and won a bunch of nonpros on her.

[00:08:47]And you know, they've been a big time supporter of the NRVC forever.

[00:08:51]>> I think they built one of the buildings in that Yeah. Great South Equestrian Center.

[00:08:55]>> Yeah. The Topson Arena is the new building that we used to show in.

[00:08:58]>> Mhm.

[00:09:00]>> Yeah.

[00:09:01]>> Without a doubt. So you you grew up playing baseball?

[00:09:05]>> Yeah.

[00:09:06]>> What kind of I I got some pictures of Gunny. He used he was skinny like that.

[00:09:12]>> Yeah. There was nothing to We used to have to run a lot for that, man. We had to run and run and run every day. Yeah.

[00:09:21]I don't know. I like playing baseball cuz I was good at it, you know.

[00:09:25]>> Um but when I was done with it, I was ready to be done. I mean, >> you were >> I feel like that's just kind of how you are.

[00:09:38]>> Yeah. I mean, my my fondest memory of high school is actually of playing baseball in high school. It's not anything epic or heroic or anything.

[00:09:47]It's I got put in in it was our sophomore year. I got put in with the bases juiced.

[00:09:55]I threw one pitch to one guy and he took it for a strike. The second pitch, he hit six houses deep and cleared the bases. And the third pitch I crow hopped and threw in the middle of the guy's back and had him hit the ground and I got thrown out of the game.

[00:10:15]>> Like that's my fondest memory of it.

[00:10:18]Even though I enjoyed it and I was good at it. I'm not like it was I could have kept playing baseball on other levels. I just didn't want to anymore. But >> when did you start golfing?

[00:10:31]>> High school. Yeah.

[00:10:32]>> And who who got you into that? Cuz that's that's >> just friends.

[00:10:36]>> Just friends going to the driving range and screwing around.

[00:10:39]>> Yeah.

[00:10:40]>> But I don't know, selftaught doing that, too. But I kind of get I don't know. I like learning things. So I get infatuated with something. I got to pick it up. I got to try to be good at it.

[00:10:52]And I won't quit until I am. But whenever I get pretty good at it, I'm kind of dumb at the time that >> gets boring fast.

[00:10:59]>> It gets boring. stuff does get boring fast to me. I don't know.

[00:11:04]>> That's what they know. That's the guy we know.

[00:11:06]>> Yeah.

[00:11:07]>> Yeah. Pick. When did you start picking up all the the uh bit and spur making?

[00:11:11]Cuz you weren't doing any of that.

[00:11:13]>> No, that's been the last 8 n years.

[00:11:18]Um, you know, I always like collecting that stuff. And, uh, when I work for you, I got a pair of Clapper spurs. Doug Carpenter got them for me.

[00:11:30]I just thought that handmade stuff was really cool.

[00:11:35]>> And uh Greg Darnell, I was living in Tyogga working for you. Greg changed the rounds once for me on my clappers right there in Tyogga.

[00:11:48]And uh I picked up a book off his desk.

[00:11:51]It was called the Traditional Cowboy Arts Association. And it was just a it was just a like a little catalog of what sale they have coming through. And I flipped through it and I saw the most unbelievable works of art with bits and spurs and s and silver and rawhide and uh uh kind of got infatuated like checking that stuff out and I don't know few years later taught myself how to weld with YouTube self-taught. Well, YouTube helps. And then uh you know got to know some of the guys in that book. Got to take lessons from him and uh Will had him on the show once, but that Wilson caper got to take an engraving lesson from him and a bitten spur class. And uh uh it was just it's cool to it's cool to when you train horses for a living, you don't actually accomplish anything on a daily basis. So it's really neat to well, you don't see what you accomplish anyway. You know, you just go on arena sweat and you leave the same door you walk in on.

[00:13:10]>> Well, I can walk in the shop and turn a pile of crap into something that I made.

[00:13:16]It's tangible. like it. I don't know. It feels good to make it. So, eight nine years ago now started started doing that.

[00:13:24]>> Yeah. And you went from that to how much did your spur sell for at the benefit auction at HenBC?

[00:13:30]>> Yeah. Gave some away to the Raining Horse Foundation. They brought 30 grand.

[00:13:34]>> Yeah.

[00:13:35]>> But, you know, it's kind of on the lines with the Clapper deal. The harder they are to get, the more they are they have value. Yeah, everybody gives me a hard time about, >> you know, time frame, but >> I think my time frame is working out better for me.

[00:13:51]>> Perfect. Yeah.

[00:13:52]>> If I produced a thousand pairs of spurs a year, then, you know, they'd be worthless.

[00:13:58]>> You can't flood the market.

[00:14:00]>> The problem is is I think you give away more more spurs than you charge for. I do.

[00:14:07]>> That's >> But that's not a problem.

[00:14:09]>> Yeah. Right.

[00:14:10]>> Not a problem. According to Kade, his four four pair, five pair of spurs, five pair deep.

[00:14:16]>> He doesn't Yeah. No, keep giving them away. So, I have made spurs now for cuz I, you know, a couple years I just made some rottle bits and I was learning. So, I've made spurs like I'm making them now for seven years. Like trying to be a particular way.

[00:14:34]Everything I make, I do the silver, I do everything. I think I've charged one person for one pair of them, maybe two.

[00:14:43]The rest of them I've given away.

[00:14:46]>> Yeah.

[00:14:47]>> And and and how about for the people that are watching that actually paid for the Spurs and you gave all the rest of them away.

[00:14:54]>> Yeah. Well, >> you know, they're no buddies like you guys are. I'm not going to give them to them, right?

[00:15:03]No. your your spurs thing is I think it makes a difference too that you you actually do it. You ride so you know how they should fit and what they should look like and how they should be made and I think that makes a big difference.

[00:15:17]Well, and everybody's different though.

[00:15:19]So I do whenever I do make spurs I ask a lot of questions cuz uh pairs you've you've heard me the first pair I gave you. How do they fit?

[00:15:28]They're too heavy. And this, you know, yours, I made you a couple pairs >> and I was worried that they wouldn't be the right length shank or I had a pretty good idea, but >> you may need the butt pickers.

[00:15:42]>> Yeah, I made Tom some spurs that he could literally scratch his ass without bending his knee, you know, just he was having a hard time bending and getting them up there. Right.

[00:15:53]>> Yeah. No, but that it's somebody with long legs like me. It is nice to have the spurs and I got the idea from Martin Lum. I saw his spurs that were like that and then I said, "Go get Martin."

[00:16:06]>> Greg Darnell made Martin Larkham spurs.

[00:16:09]Well, I just had the fortunate blessing to have Greg in my shop for a couple years. So, I had the pattern right there. I said, "Hey, Greg, can I borrow this?" "Yeah." And I made them. So, it was good having Greg there, too. He he hung out with me for a couple years.

[00:16:25]>> Yeah. How fun was that? Like I mean that had been pretty cool.

[00:16:28]>> Yeah, it was.

[00:16:29]>> I mean, you guys had all cool equipment, too.

[00:16:32]>> He helped me get the equipment. He helped me get it all set up, you know, cuz some of those machines in there 50, 60 years old, >> you know, wiring them and making sure they're in working order. I had no idea.

[00:16:47]When you're looking at a milling machine or a 50-y old band saw, you have no idea. Is this Oh, yeah. This one. Yeah.

[00:16:54]We get replacement parts here, here, here. Taught me all that.

[00:16:58]>> And wired it up and and uh so is a 50-y old machine. Is is that as good or better than the new machine? Sometimes it is. They're both Yeah.

[00:17:09]>> Yeah. They're not many advances in technology those machines.

[00:17:14]>> No. And well, I mean, I could get it cut out with a laser, but those are 100 grand.

[00:17:23]So, excuse me. Hard to buy a laser when you don't charge anybody for your work.

[00:17:28]>> Yeah. Well, I like selling horses and buying tools. So, >> it's more of a nonprofit business.

[00:17:35]>> It'll be a profit business whenever I need it to make money, >> but it's therapy. It's not about the money.

[00:17:44]If they were if you were going in there as a job, it wouldn't be as it wouldn't you wouldn't enjoy it.

[00:17:49]>> Well, I still I would enjoy it, but I just wouldn't enjoy it as much >> because I I'm not good with the deadlines, obviously.

[00:17:58]But uh but it's you know it's it's good to it's good to focus all your energy on horses and and be there in the morning and in the afternoon it's good to focus energy on something tangible that you feel like you accomplished something >> [ __ ] half of them spurs that I hand off I have a hard time giving them to people because I like them so much I want to keep them.

[00:18:25]>> Yeah. I told you that with two or three pairs. I still have a pair that I haven't fixed yet just because I like looking at him.

[00:18:32]>> So, and I don't clean them enough you get mad.

[00:18:36]>> He goes through spurs. We got kick.

[00:18:40]>> That's how I know he's winningless cuz he wears that babies out.

[00:18:45]>> Yeah. He's also 15 head a day right now.

[00:18:48]So, I don't >> It takes longer for me to wear them out riding five a day.

[00:18:52]>> Well, and then I joined a cult New Mexico.

[00:18:56]See, it's not as fun.

[00:18:59]>> Stories my story is very boring.

[00:19:01]>> Okay. So, but like we were saying, you really get into stuff.

[00:19:06]>> I mean, you've done really well with the stores, training horses, you played baseball. Where did all come from?

[00:19:12]>> Yeah. Good. Excellent golfer, pingpong.

[00:19:16]Where did that come from and when did that start?

[00:19:19]>> Just being good at everything. When did you start just being good at everything?

[00:19:22]>> Because it's the same mindset for everything. I mean, you just practice it and you're into it and you get better.

[00:19:28]Like, where'd that come from?

[00:19:29]>> I don't really know. I just >> I don't know if I'm add so I just get bored fast and I get infatuated with things.

[00:19:39]>> [ __ ] there was a year where I got lost in trying to do graphic art with making logo.

[00:19:48]That's right. I remember that.

[00:19:49]>> Go full boore.

[00:19:50]>> Yeah, I forgot about that.

[00:19:51]>> You made some people's logos.

[00:19:52]>> You made money. Yeah. Yeah, did a couple for Kate. I did >> cool logo for Electric Code. His first logo.

[00:20:01]>> I can't remember all the ones I did.

[00:20:03]>> I did mine.

[00:20:05]>> You know, I got to say though, it's been fun for me to watch the whole cuz you were 18 years old when you came to work for me. And >> what year was that color or >> end of 2001, beginning of 2002, I started working cream.

[00:20:21]>> Yeah. and to watch the whole progression of now owning your own place from from working for me coming there with absolutely nothing.

[00:20:32]>> Mhm.

[00:20:33]>> And and you always had a bit of a bit of a reckless personality. I would say I still do. I have no idea how I ended up.

[00:20:42]I'm I'm not supposed to be I'm I'm not supposed to be well off, you know, cuz I spend money as fast as I get it and I and I I don't know. It's almost a gambling addiction with buying horses. I just have to buy it, make it work. It pretty financially irresponsible the logic. But I've heard people say it before, there wasn't there's not a plan B. So, it's easy just to keep going and make things work, you know? So, no, I didn't have parents that had tons of money with I mean, we were middle class families, so it's not like we were had to join a cult and starve oursel for six years, >> you know, but uh you know, when I came to work for you in the first week or two, I'm like, "Yeah, this is it. This is perfect. This is going to take me this way." And all I had to do was put my head down and actually do the job. And then then it got really easy. So, >> I don't know. No plan B.

[00:21:52]>> And you know, the thing is like you can't I will say it it's it's a little bit different. And I'm a lot different now, too. But you tell the story. I'm not speaking out of school here. You tell the story where I rode one of yours one day and I got off them and I walk over to you and just throw bridal res at you and say, "You better stay up at night >> trying to figure this out because that's the only way it's going to work or something to that." It might have been a little worse than that.

[00:22:22]>> But it depended on the day. I remember the horse too. Uh well, one of them was that silver and hickory horse when I worked for Tom. This this horse was really a neat looking bay horse. See kind of a big jug headed thing but neat neat looking going around and you stopped him every day for a whole summer for me and every day I handed you that ring and every day you handed it back I flinched. I'm like not that bad.

[00:22:51]Oh, thank you.

[00:22:54]Or you know you threw it at me and this is your fault. You should feel sorry for him. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. But I I don't that's that's the funny thing is is whenever I wrote at Steve and Andre's if he got mad at me I took it personal.

[00:23:13]It hurt my feelings. And when you got mad at me and swore at me I never it never it never bothered me on a personal level. I'm like yep I deserve that. So, I don't know. It >> It was easy.

[00:23:33]>> Yeah. Well, and uh >> I mean, the work was hard and the hours were long, but it was >> I knew it was going the right direction, you know, and I I almost don't know what help thinks now sometimes cuz you almost got to be delicate around them and coddle them to keep them enthusiastic about it. But >> my plan was always to go this way. So it it never bothered me. I knew you were going to get me there. So, >> and the and two, you know, >> like you had something that is almost holds you back in horse training.

[00:24:14]>> You could horse show >> and sometimes the better you horse show, the more it holds you back in horse training because you can in those days you can't do it anymore. Now you got to be everything. But in those days, you could get by with just being able to go out there and horse showing.

[00:24:31]>> Yeah.

[00:24:32]>> And you know, you've pulled it off on numerous occasions. Uh, and I can't remember if you pulled it off this time or not, but I remember you were riding a horse for I believe Bob Skinner owned it and at the fraternity.

[00:24:45]>> Was it fraternity or the other?

[00:24:46]>> It was the fraternity. I made it work.

[00:24:48]>> Yeah. And you're you're out there.

[00:24:51]You're talking about scratching.

[00:24:53]>> Oh, that was Curtis Berlin. Oh, is that Chris, bro?

[00:24:56]>> Yeah, that was old CD Russian Tuscam name.

[00:25:02]>> Yeah.

[00:25:03]>> So, you're out there and you're >> I can tell the story. I I can't remember exactly how it went.

[00:25:09]>> Well, it was the first year I got to show a three-year-old for you. I'd never been to the fraternity.

[00:25:15]And all throughout the week, I thought it was going fine. But the night before you or Mandy said, "It's okay. You don't have to show them. You can scratch them like fine. I don't know what you guys are talking about. I'm fine. Well, I'm sneaking up on fixing this this one turn I have going back. And before I show I maybe have kicked him a little hard trying to get a little much out of it. And that thing quit. I mean, he said, "See what?" And every time I'd lay the ramp, this thing would launch and go, "Uh-uh."

[00:25:55]>> And you know, the fraternity pen was different then. The super barn wasn't the super barn.

[00:25:59]>> Yeah.

[00:26:00]>> And that makeup pen was turned 90°.

[00:26:04]>> I cleared the makeup pen out. People were dodging me, getting out of the way.

[00:26:09]I remember Jim Morgan of all people coming down from the stands and walking past and saying, "Hey, Gunny, how many you show?" "Well, I'm next."

[00:26:18]>> And he turns around, walks right back in the show pen.

[00:26:22]And uh you know, you guys told me I could scratch. So I told Mav, I said, "Mav, go, you got to go find Tom and Mandy. Tell him I'm scratching."

[00:26:31]And he came back. He goes, "Bud, that was yesterday. Today you got a show."

[00:26:38]Okay. And and I walked in there and I did four of the slowest turns I've ever done in my whole life that way with keeping his feet on the ground. I marked the 209 and a half and I got to show again the second go.

[00:26:51]>> Yeah, it's my first. It's not like it's not like I was, you know, destined to mark a 220 on that horse, but I don't still think I could have marked a 13 or a 14. Might have showed up the day before.

[00:27:11]>> What happened in the second one?

[00:27:13]>> I can't remember. But but that was also the great thing about showing for you guys and and you guys uh and I still try to be this way about it. You never put pressure on me or backed me in a corner uh showing to where you never made it more nervous for me than I already was.

[00:27:36]You guys knew just how to leave somebody alone, give them the info they needed, but leave them alone and Well, you know, and not for me, like I compare everything to sports, and I played a lot of basketball growing up.

[00:27:50]>> To me, it's like a three-point shooter.

[00:27:53]If he misses and you jerk him out of the game, >> he's going to miss a lot.

[00:27:58]>> But if you if he knows he's got the green light and he can miss and he can miss and he can miss and he's still got the green light, >> the confidence is going to build and the shot's going to start to fall. And I don't think in Kad's entire career of growing up, I remember one time. One time getting after him for showing one like an idiot. And that was your fault.

[00:28:21]>> No, it wasn't your fault. That was different.

[00:28:23]>> It was a different time.

[00:28:25]>> It was he was egg on.

[00:28:27]>> No, he was egging me on the first time, but it was the bucks.

[00:28:30]>> Yeah.

[00:28:32]>> Pretty sure I was going to work 230 though.

[00:28:35]>> I was pretty sure I was going to work 231 on my 218 horse. Dude, I thought he worked, too. It was cool.

[00:28:40]>> Yeah. I was like, whoa.

[00:28:42]>> Yeah, it was going to be cool until he until he got to his first maneuver.

[00:28:47]>> Then everything fell apart. Yeah.

[00:28:49]>> And you guys were pretty mad.

[00:28:51]>> Yeah, we were pretty because it started to fall apart. He was going to catch up.

[00:28:55]Yeah.

[00:28:57]Instead of just like, okay, this this ship has sailed. He gonna catch up. But no, that was always I mean and I' we've never ever put like you walk in, you show the pressure comes at home.

[00:29:12]>> Yeah.

[00:29:13]>> Once you're at the horse show in the practice bin, yes, you need to get them ready, right? You can't overdo. You know, we've always paid attention to that. But once it's time to horse show, go horse show. And if it works, great.

[00:29:26]If it doesn't work, great. We'll go again. You know, that's always been our our philosophy.

[00:29:33]Yeah. I remember the the first time that I had some real success showing for you.

[00:29:42]You were watching me get my horse ready at the NRBC. And you said, "Gnunny, you're ready. Leave it alone."

[00:29:49]>> And I left it alone for about a minute and a half.

[00:29:54]And I started, you know, Gunny, stop.

[00:29:57]Leave it alone. you're ready, put your hand out, walk around. And I, you know, and I did that, walked out there, marked a 221 and a half, and that was on the dun at the NBC.

[00:30:10]>> And uh I still like such a valuable lesson for me whenever I was young was, you know, if that animal was loose and relaxed and then it's easy for you to drive it where you want it to go. It doesn't have to be a ready here this. It doesn't have to be a really ready to go show. I mean, a lot of times that's a lot worse. So, I still hold on to that today. I still try to make them as relaxed as possible.

[00:30:45]>> Probably holds me back some too in some spots. But, well, you train and the thing is you train a good horse. I mean, you train a horse that somebody else could get on and go ride. And I think I mean I think part of it is that background that you have and I think as far as the horse showing goes we didn't we didn't I think you're born to be a showman or not.

[00:31:11]>> You can develop it somewhat. There's guys in this industry I'll use Dwayne Ladder as an example. I don't think Dwayne is the greatest showman and he'll admit it. I'm not talking out of school.

[00:31:23]He's one of my best friends, but he just gets them so trained that he gets him trained enough where he can go in there and kick your ass. And he did it for a long, long time.

[00:31:34]>> You know, $3 million rider or right real close to it >> from being a great horse trainer. But as far as the showman, you had that. You were born with that. But we didn't we didn't wreck that. We didn't take it away, you know? I think we just let you and we've done that with everybody. Joe the same way. every I nobody that has ever worked for us got in [ __ ] for walking in there and having a bad row ever, you know, and I I think that's just helps develop a develop a showman.

[00:32:07]>> Was the diamond bear the first level four finals?

[00:32:10]>> I didn't even make the level four finals that year.

[00:32:12]>> You're 21 and I have to make it. I >> missed it by a half.

[00:32:16]>> So, what was your first level four final >> the next year?

[00:32:21]>> No.

[00:32:22]No, the first level four finals was that fraternity before that NRB seat on a horse of Bob's dinners named um Little Rough and Classy. He was a little rough peppy.

[00:32:37]>> I can't remember if he was out of the don.

[00:32:39]>> Yeah, I think he was.

[00:32:41]>> And I was third on them at the Southwest Fraternity and marked a 219, 216 and a 217 on them.

[00:32:51]made the open finals with fraternity in 2003.

[00:32:56]That was cool. That was really cool cuz, you know, I grew up whenever I was a kid, me and Mav watched, you know, Tom, Todd Bergen, Tim McQuay, Sean Flare, uh, all them guys walk in the pen in Pattern Five. You know, the fraternity finals was pattern five.

[00:33:18]And you know there's a party upstairs in the cantina they called it. I don't know if they called called it after that but they called it the cantina. So I remember getting to be in that cantina and you know cheer for my people that I looked up to. And then I got to walk in there. The my favorite part of that first fraternity finals was walking into the pen. I mean, just the lights are different. The lights were just different. I mean, it's just neat experience.

[00:33:52]And uh yeah, old Bob Ster. And after that, I sold Doug Van Ree and Bob Ster on that horse. And every year after that, I sold them one of my I sold them a share of one of my my best paternity horse after that every year for a dollar just so they were a part of my success again, just for karma's sake. So yeah, and we were the first that was really the first, it kind of changed things in the industry as far as there was a lot of events where you and I both had three in the finals.

[00:34:27]>> It was the first time where the assistant was making consistently the open finals. You get three in the open finals and >> it was pretty it that was pretty crazy.

[00:34:38]There was one year >> we got all six back to the level four files at the in our PC. Yeah.

[00:34:43]>> The next year, uh, not the first year I did good at the NRBC, the the next year, uh, >> that was cool.

[00:34:52]>> Yeah. No, we and and we had a lot of fun. I can remember Mandy and I were gone somewhere. I don't know where we went. It was right after it was not too long after we got married cuz we still had the cameras. You know little cameras you put on the table, little disposable cameras that you tell everybody take pictures.

[00:35:12]>> Hey, before you tell the historian, I want you to know that you had a lot older, more responsible employees than me working for you also. Uh, so anyway, yeah. So, we're gone and we come back and we we hadn't get those pictures developed yet. So, we took that bag in and got them all developed. And lo and behold, there's a few pictures of Gunny sitting in my desk with his feet up, sitting in my chair with his feet on my desk.

[00:35:41]>> Yeah. While we were gone, that's what it was one of his responsible employees that took the picture. Okay.

[00:35:48]>> Yeah. And and my favorite Gunny story, >> I'm going to tell a story. Sorry, Gunny.

[00:35:53]>> I don't even know what story you have, too.

[00:35:55]>> Yeah. Well, we had a particular uh girl working for us.

[00:36:00]>> Okay.

[00:36:03]>> And not name any names.

[00:36:05]>> No, I'm not naming cuz I don't even remember the names. So, it's easy. And uh yeah, Gunny got her to lope around with her top off one day and I wasn't there. No, just be everywhere there.

[00:36:17]Make sure that >> I knew where to draw mine, I guess.

[00:36:24]Yeah, right.

[00:36:26]>> Yeah. No, we had a lot of fun. I remember remember when we had Mav Catch ride some for us.

[00:36:31]>> Yeah.

[00:36:32]>> Well, he rode bucks getting married.

[00:36:34]>> Yeah. You know why?

[00:36:37]>> You never heard that story.

[00:36:39]>> So, me can I go home now? Me and Gunny and Mav and Todd Bergen >> go to the strip club in Dallas.

[00:36:51]And because Gunny is having a bad day, let's leave it at that, huh? We'll leave it there. But Gunny's having a bad day.

[00:37:01]So, we go to the strip club in Dallas and we enjoy ourselves pretty good. And it's time to check out and Tom's the only one that's got any money on it. And the bill was like we I was an assistant horse trainer. We spent a lot more than my salary was for that month.

[00:37:19]>> Yeah. Our bill and fa salary. This is in 200 what >> five? 2005 maybe.

[00:37:26]>> And our bill at the strip club was like $4,000.

[00:37:30]>> Oh yeah. Yeah. We got serious and and Gunny didn't have any money and you know Todd wasn't really planning on going to the strip club cuz you know he's just Mr. Perfect. And we just drag him along and then uh I mean he did enjoy himself all of a sudden cuz he was in all the levels and he won enough money to pay me back the money he owed me for the strip club. Didn't know that.

[00:38:07]>> Oh yeah. Good times.

[00:38:10]>> Good times. Great days. Yeah, we did some [ __ ] Hauling hauling all over the place. You won. Did you win Gordyville?

[00:38:18]>> Yeah, I turned 22 the day that I won Gordyville on a dun.

[00:38:23]>> Yeah, I'm the full sister of the Buckskin man. Her name was just another dunut.

[00:38:28]Yeah, I remember I she wasn't the best turner in the world.

[00:38:34]Uh but I turned a half both words, circled a half both ways, and stopped three wounds. And all judges had it the same. And I remember Dell was last to walk in the pen that day and he turned a one and a half the first way on Starbucks sidekick and turned a plus two the second way five times. I'm like dodge that.

[00:38:57]>> Yeah. Yeah. That was a good little horse Starbucks sidekick.

[00:39:01]>> Yeah. No, that was fun. Oh, Gordy.

[00:39:04]>> Gordy was a fun place to show. You know, they had the it was a stallion incentive program. You know, the money was just so different now. Like it was a big deal.

[00:39:14]It was a big deal to win Gordyville. I mean, you told me on the way home not to get a big head cuz Bryant Pace had won Gordyville, World War II.

[00:39:26]It paid me.

[00:39:27]>> Make me look bad. Yeah.

[00:39:30]>> It paid 12,000 bucks to win, you know, and If it was a horse show like that caliber now, it'd pay 50 or 100.

[00:39:41]>> Did it pay Did they pay 122,000 to win the open or did you Were you in in a division then?

[00:39:46]>> I was in two divisions. Yeah. So I won like 8,000 for the Open. No, they had I was just level four then.

[00:39:53]>> Uh they had they had a the Gordyville Breeders Cup and then they had a open derby. So >> that's right.

[00:40:00]>> Paid like eight eight something and three something.

[00:40:04]>> Yeah. No, that was a great that that was We don't really have that anymore that I know of. We probably do. Well, there's probably some shows somewhere that we just don't go to anymore.

[00:40:17]>> But I, you know, we we go at the what was the name of that steakhouse like the Long Branch or something in Randol.

[00:40:26]>> Yeah.

[00:40:27]>> Tool, Illinois.

[00:40:28]>> And then uh always that time of year.

[00:40:32]Did you ever go kid? Was that before your time?

[00:40:35]>> Oh, yeah. I was alive.

[00:40:37]>> 2005. Yeah, that's when you're born. 20 >> born.

[00:40:40]>> Oh, yeah. 2000.

[00:40:43]>> Carly was born in 2005.

[00:40:45]>> Yeah, my bad. I get that mixed up.

[00:40:47]Carly, >> you know that's >> Well, she doesn't give you a ration [ __ ] every day.

[00:40:53]>> Yeah, that's true. I do.

[00:40:54]>> Yeah. Well, when I'm around her, she gives me action and [ __ ] But anyway, that was always fun at that show because the the March Madness started there.

[00:41:06]>> Yeah.

[00:41:06]>> And we'd all go in the, you know, when we weren't showing, we'd go in the little bar right there and we'd all watch the basketball games.

[00:41:14]>> That was a great show. We don't really >> they do the rackets there and everything.

[00:41:17]>> Yeah. I can't really think of anything we do like that anymore, but >> but yeah, that was that was fun. And you know, I think of it now, it's we're so specialized, and I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but like at my place, we're so special is we got we got guys that ride the 2-year-olds, guys that, you know, train the three-year-olds, help the nonpros do all the stuff, fix the broken pipes, different guys, fix do all the Then you did everything.

[00:41:52]>> I was the pipe guy.

[00:41:53]>> Yeah. You broke the [ __ ] You fix the [ __ ] I didn't break the first like the first week that I worked for him. I probably told this story on this show before, too. The first week I worked for Tom, he there was a broken pipe at the at the other part of the ranch. Go up there and fix that. So, okay. I go up there, I dig the hole. I find the leak.

[00:42:15]Go to the store, get all the plumbing.

[00:42:16]I'll just turn the water off by the road. Well, I didn't know how to turn the water off. I unscrewed the main line.

[00:42:25]That's what I loosened was the main line.

[00:42:29]There's it's a two or three inch main line shooting water. I mean, as high as you think one should shoot and I was like, "Huh, I don't think I got that right."

[00:42:43]I called, "Uh, Tom, I think I screwed up." I couldn't imagine what was going through your head when you drove up there. Uh yeah, >> I don't remember. I was too scared to death to hear the names that you called me. If you called me Indie at all, you might have just called somebody to fix it. But >> I can just see you standing there. Oh, [ __ ] >> Oh, I stood there for a good minute and a half before I picked up my phone. I guarantee you that I let >> I let it soak in and I really screwed up before I picked up that phone.

[00:43:18]>> So classic. So, where the ranch is now, I sent Gunny over cuz it was full of mosquite trees and [ __ ] and >> you know, crap. And I sent Gunny over there cuz I just bought that property and I sent him over there to clean it.

[00:43:35]Wasn't I clean up the fence line or something?

[00:43:37]>> Measure the fence line and clean it up.

[00:43:41]See, because you had to know how much feet of fence you were going to order.

[00:43:47]And he he showed me what he wanted me to do and said, "Oh, this would take you a day." And I'm okay. Yeah, sure. I mean, Tom says it take me a day. Okay. It took me a skid steer, two chainsaws cuz I ran one over uh uh six different chains, and it took me four days.

[00:44:12]One day we lost because it got skid steered damn stuck. and then got the tractor stuck that we were trying to pull the skid gear out with.

[00:44:21]>> So we we got the tractor out with the tractor and the Hummer. That's the first year that Hummer came back. Yeah. I I had a Hummer.

[00:44:30]>> So he had to he had the skid steer chain to the tractor. He's going to pull the skid steer out the tractor and they were both stuck. So then I had the bright idea of hooking it up to the Hummer and then it got stuck and then we had to get another tractor and then just pulled the whole >> the whole chain of them out. Yeah.

[00:44:50]>> I didn't know then you could use the bucket and kind of dig yourself out with a skid or somebody got it out. I can't remember. But >> yeah.

[00:44:58]>> Yeah. Four days later.

[00:45:01]>> I probably still got in that text message how long that fence line is, too. I measured it with one of them little wheels you walk around. Uh yeah.

[00:45:10]And now you got your own bus.

[00:45:12]>> Yep.

[00:45:14]Very fortunate. About 5 years ago, uh was renting the old McQuay stables from the lady that bought it, Leslie Wolfby. And uh I was doing what I do, keeping my head down, just taking care of everything like it's mine. and she offered it to me cuz she saw she was tired of dealing with it and so I was the one dealing with all the problems anyway. So she she let me buy it from her and it's probably the best thing I've ever done.

[00:45:46]>> Yeah. You tried to burn it down. I did I did try to burn it down. I had one of those barns has metal stalls in it and the bottoms are rotten out. Look, you try to get any welder out there just to fix the part that's, you know, rotted out and they look at you like it's a math nightmare. They can't figure out how much it's going to cost. So, I just started doing it with I welded all the tops together and then started gutting it and yeah, my help did and I was good about watering, but a spark must have got behind the and I put water back there, too. But it must have cuz I was done welding at 6 and I'd hose it off and I'd even sit there for an hour after I was done. I watched it for an hour after I was done.

[00:46:39]My help comes back at 11 to check the barn and that stall was, you know, about four or five feet of it. The 2 by 12 were burned. light.

[00:46:53]We do I dodged a couple times.

[00:46:55]>> Dodge a huge bullet >> and that'll make paranoid about that'll make you really paranoid about just you nobody's over there welding about a fire going on right now. It'll scare you. I didn't sleep very good for a minute. But we got all the stalls fixed and nothing did burn down after that. Like we got them all done.

[00:47:14]>> No, that was that'll scare you to death.

[00:47:16]And yeah, I know you're careful about that [ __ ] so can happen to anybody. And no, owning that place has been great.

[00:47:24]It's allowed me to uh like floor it with the irresponsible buying nature of horses.

[00:47:37]So, so uh uh yeah, I had Super Mario was the first one that I sold whenever I had that place. Uh, and that, you know, that boosts your confidence. That make you hit the gas pedal. And but, you know, owning your own facility like that, running all the cost of owning those horses into the lump sum of everything that comes in.

[00:48:08]I mean, makes it easy. Whereas, I was just renting stalls before that. And when you see that monthly bill of how much your just your rent is on keeping that animal alive. Even though it costs the same in my place that it does to rent, you know, it the money is still the same, but I don't see it. So, it it just it rolls into the big cost. It It helps you sell horses whenever you're not when your back isn't up against the wall, when you feel like you need to sell them. You know, I just own them. If somebody wants to buy it, they buy it now. I don't have to sell it because I'm tired of paying this bill. Puts you in like a defensive position. So, >> and when you're looking at one to buy, you're not thinking, well, if I buy, then I got to pay for a stall and then I got to You just buy.

[00:49:01]>> Yeah.

[00:49:02]>> You're already paid for the stall.

[00:49:04]>> Yeah.

[00:49:05]>> So, yeah. No, I I was telling this story somebody somebody else earlier this week and I'm not going to say his name just out of respect, but I was talking to somebody about they were telling me that I was irresponsible with money like he you know like dad here tells me and uh you know he's this person was kind of just making fun of me about it and I just said listen if you bought your own horses and sold your own horses, you'd have some money, too. And they said to me, "Well, it just hasn't worked out that good for me." Well, how can you expect to have a lot of customers if you're not making them money? If you can't make yourself money, how can you expect to make somebody else some money? So, I've always I've always put my money where my mouth is. I buy my own if I want it. I I try to buy and um and stand behind it. try to do a good job training and stand behind it if I sell it.

[00:50:07]>> Yeah. And we've all seen that, you know, and I think that's something that that you do. Great. And I think it's something you have to do is if you sell them to somebody, and that's the beauty of having your own place and having a a lot of horses. If you sell the something to somebody and it doesn't work, you can take it back in on trade.

[00:50:27]You're always you're you're not just a okay, here you go, cash them your check.

[00:50:33]see you.

[00:50:33]>> Yeah.

[00:50:34]>> You know, you stand behind them and that makes a big difference. And you've How many times have you tapped the fraternities?

[00:50:40]>> Four or five.

[00:50:42]>> Two-year-olds.

[00:50:43]>> Mhm. Four or five.

[00:50:45]>> Yeah. And the sales at the end of the day, you can you can have a barn full of training horses, but selling horses is I mean, that's it. It it can't be said enough. Swapping horses was where all the fun at, man. I I tell I would tell that to any young horse trainer trying to get in the business if they're struggling to get horses.

[00:51:11]And and when I've told that to somebody, they roll their eyes at me and say, "Well, you've had success in the show pen. You don't know what you're talking about."

[00:51:21]I'm telling you, if you have yearlings, you sell them and market them in a public auction and you do a good job, you will get a lot of business. A lot of business.

[00:51:34]>> So, >> yeah. And the thing is like, okay, you sold Mario to Cade and there's a lot of lot of horse trainers would have never sold Mario and I know you you struggled with it, but it was a lot of money. And I to me it did two things for you. One, it did three things for you. It gave you the confidence to know that you could do that.

[00:51:57]>> Mhm.

[00:51:58]>> It gave you more money to reinvest. So, you took one and turned it into 10.

[00:52:02]>> Mhm. And then uh I turned one turned it into 10 and turned it into a ranch.

[00:52:09]>> Yeah.

[00:52:10]>> 100%. 100%. And then the third thing is it made the general public go that guy will sell a great one.

[00:52:19]>> Mhm.

[00:52:19]>> And I think that makes a big difference when for for people out looking for horses, they're going to go to your house. That's going to be one of the first places they go because they know if you got a great one, you'll sell.

[00:52:33]>> Yeah.

[00:52:34]>> You go through the list a lot more than just Mario. Yeah.

[00:52:37]>> For the last five, six years, a bunch of good ones made. Not even No, I mean, obviously not all fraternity champs, but nonpro finalist won 100,000 in the nonpro. Who's Joe Daddy? Horses like that.

[00:52:48]>> Yeah.

[00:52:50]>> Yeah. We had Who's Joe Daddy?

[00:52:53]I sold him for a cigar box full of cash.

[00:52:56]an undisclosed cigar box full of cash and uh he's won more than double what I sold him for and I'm happy that he did it. Uh you know, couldn't be a bigger cheerleader of all of the horses that I've sold.

[00:53:18]I'm trying to keep some now. Have some 2-year-old Phillies that I really like.

[00:53:22]So, kind of want to keep those to help build some kind of a brood mare rather than just having one good mare trying to have a couple and I have a couple nice two-year-old at least I mean the best of her change >> how many birds do you have now >> we have four we have a inferno mare girls on fire we have a smart spook mare out of the donut mare I have a gunner mar out of custom made done it. She was crippled as a three-year-old. She didn't really there wasn't one thing wrong with her, but she just she didn't want to I couldn't put my foot on what was wrong with her, but there was something wrong with her. Okay. But she's got my best three-year-old this year. You know, she's bred out that she don't have to win anybody.

[00:54:20]>> She going to break.

[00:54:21]>> Look at her sister.

[00:54:22]>> Yeah. her sister that's produced a million dollars. What? Zero.

[00:54:26]>> Yeah.

[00:54:27]>> $210.

[00:54:31]>> But I'd like to keep the daughters of the done it mayor. You got to get you done. And I'd like to keep the daughters of Girls on Fire now cuz proven producers.

[00:54:46]So hopefully that, you know, that'll just keep going.

[00:54:50]>> Yeah. And the thing is, it's hard to go buy. You almost have to be able to raise them now cuz it's hard to go buy those great ones. I mean, >> I have a Mr. Fahrenheit 2-year-old Philly that I couldn't buy from you guys if you had it.

[00:55:05]>> You wouldn't sell it to me.

[00:55:06]>> Can I buy from you?

[00:55:07]>> No.

[00:55:10]>> I showed her to Sean Flair. He was here doing our podcast. You could have bought her that week, but now you can't.

[00:55:15]>> We'll see.

[00:55:16]>> He told me he liked her, so now you can't. Nobody.

[00:55:20]But uh >> he said he liked her and then he said, "But >> he didn't write any check."

[00:55:26]>> Yeah.

[00:55:26]>> He didn't have to.

[00:55:28]>> So what's >> I know what I got. I don't care. You know, I don't need anybody's [ __ ] Tell me what I got. If I want it, I like it. I keep it.

[00:55:38]>> If I want Kate to have it, I'll sell it.

[00:55:40]If I want Tom to have it, I'll sell it.

[00:55:45]>> Yeah, that's for sure. And you know what? That is the thing about you for sure is that you always have had confidence >> in what you had. You've been wrong, you've been right. You've been right way more than you've been wrong, but right or wrong, you you believed in what you believe in.

[00:56:03]>> Yeah.

[00:56:04]>> And what do you So, you've sold a ton of good ones. What do you look for? What do you What's your strategy?

[00:56:13]Um, good mover.

[00:56:17]Uh, easy feel. It just has to be easy feel. Uh, and you know, you can feel talent, but I want it to feel easy. Like, if we're riding a 2-year-old, and I've been wrong about that, too, cuz the noise complaint horse that he's been successful on this year was not easy feel. He's heavy.

[00:56:38]That's not my cup of tea. and you marked 228 225 on them and you're going to mark a 100 more of them it looks like. So that makes me question trying to maybe pick a number, stiffer, dumber horse.

[00:56:53]Now, >> right.

[00:56:56]>> Uh but I Tom, we've ridden a lot of horses.

[00:57:02]You know when you like them and you know when you just go me and that it's just the experience, I think. I don't I don't think it's one thing in general.

[00:57:10]>> I think it's funny how horses some of them you like them and you and they say, "Why do you like them?" Can't explain it. Some of you go something about him.

[00:57:18]I don't like him. And people watching the like, "No, that's >> both three-year-olds. They go that's your best one. That's just And then you're riding one. They like it's just a little it's their fourth or fifth." No, I like this one. It's weird how and for no reason. Doesn't stop. Just a different >> just a look. And the judges, that's the thing. The judges don't you don't lope over there and get off and let them ride them around, you know? I mean, they're they can only see what they can see.

[00:57:45]>> I think Andrea showed that donor out of Checkex Nikki last year. Was it last year? He showed him his three at Waco >> because he was trying to get a good video of him to sell them.

[00:57:56]>> I don't think it was his best horse and he 229 or 230.

[00:58:01]>> Yeah.

[00:58:01]>> Yeah, that one was we were told before that horse show that he's got six better. At the derby last year, we I looked at a three-year-old for Kim and Rick. I want him to buy a three-year-old for me and they said, "Yeah, let's pass on him because we got a gun right at Andreas that we think he's not going to show and if he doesn't show them, we'll send him to you."

[00:58:24]>> All right. Sounds good. Whatever.

[00:58:25]>> And then >> wins way over Congress. He's the best second best three of the year.

[00:58:31]>> It's funny.

[00:58:32]>> Yeah, that's the thing. Nobody knows until you walk through the show pan.

[00:58:36]Nobody knows. We always have said that's the first time that you show one that you like is the most nervous you are all are all year. Not because you're worried about winning and losing. You just want them to walk in and be a show horse.

[00:58:49]>> Yeah.

[00:58:49]>> Because if they're not and you know I don't know what you think. So you've been around long enough now.

[00:58:56]I think today's horses are more honest about how they train as a three-year-old and how they show.

[00:59:05]>> Yeah. [ __ ] >> You know, it 20 years ago, 25 years ago, they could train pretty good and then you walk in the show pen and they just not show at all.

[00:59:14]>> Yeah.

[00:59:15]>> I don't think we see that much anymore.

[00:59:17]>> I think we have Yeah, I don't think we see that. I think we have better answers to the questions that they throw at us through the training. So, we we know, you know, we we have more knowledge of how to train them better, easier, faster.

[00:59:32]Oh, >> I think that's a great point. I think they get so much better trained now >> where they could find a place to maybe leak out a little bit before they're they're not looking for that place because they're so much better trained now.

[00:59:48]>> Yeah.

[00:59:49]>> Yeah. I I don't think that's wrong either, but I think it's the combination of better minded, better individuals, better bred, better trained. It's the whole thing.

[00:59:59]>> Yeah.

[01:00:02]easier to get ready.

[01:00:03]>> Yeah.

[01:00:04]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:06]>> I still like ones that are kind of difficult to get ready. I still like horses that are a lot of horse that are that are feeleely that are not going to be everybody's I don't know >> a challenge. I just there's just something about not having a kick hard that I like, you know, and uh like my best three-year-old, you would have rolled your eyes at me if you watched me ride him yesterday going, "How's he going to do that?" And today, he was good this morning. I just I don't know. I like more difficult horse.

[01:00:39]>> I think that goes towards what you're saying. You picked something up like with the Spurs. I you're thinking about it, learning then it gets gets boring once you get it.

[01:00:48]>> Yeah.

[01:00:48]>> Trishy one. It gives you something to think about. It keeps you engaged.

[01:00:51]>> It's more about the challenge than it is um I think it is more about for me it's more about the challenge than it is the end result. It's >> going I did it. I can't believe I did.

[01:01:03]>> Yeah. It's going to work. Not only did it work, but it's going to keep working if I just keep doing. I like learning.

[01:01:09]And so, >> and I don't think any of us mind one that takes a lot to get ready as long as they're not lying to you.

[01:01:16]>> Yeah.

[01:01:17]>> I think, you know, we'll take that every day of the week versus one that is quiet and easy to get ready and you think you got them too tired and then you walk in the gate and you got a racehorse.

[01:01:28]>> Yeah.

[01:01:28]>> You know, I think for sure no none of us mind putting in the work if they want to participate.

[01:01:34]>> Yeah.

[01:01:34]>> And I've had some of the best ones take a lot of work. That's just part of it cuz they got big motors and they're big athletes and >> you know I mean it takes it takes that extra horsepower to go be a player in the level four nowadays. Well, I mean, you ask me what I look for in prospects, too, or how do you know, man? We buy a lot of year ones, too. We raise a lot of babies. We don't know. But I think attitude is everything on in a mindset. You can go a long ways with a positive mindset towards it. Um, >> a lot of those horses that I bought and sold and trained, >> they didn't have a choice cuz I wasn't going to quit. I was going to figure out a way. And it's so easy. It's so easy to say it's not going to be good enough and fail. That that's easy to do. It's so easy to say, "No, I can't do that." And just get rid of it. It's so hard to say, "It's going to be good. I'm going to make it good and commit to it and have it work." So, I don't I try to go into most of those horses that we keep or or we end up training, I go into it with a very positive mindset. And the second that I feel negative about the second I feel like I have a negative mindset towards it, I get rid of it. I just it won't work for me because it has to be it has to be in here for me. It has to be a challenge. It has to be something I look forward to. Even if it's a piece of crap horse, if I look forward to the challenge of it, I'm I'm good. I I'll go. But >> yeah, I get that.

[01:03:18]>> If the if I don't I don't know. If I just don't want to do it, I just can't.

[01:03:23]It's >> Yeah, it's got to get you out of bed in the morning. Yeah, there's some of those that that aren't super sorry.

[01:03:30]>> Probably probably a bad quality, but I know what I I know what I have.

[01:03:35]>> Same. You two have the same quality. It doesn't get you out of bed in the morning because you think you're going to win uh major event on it. It's the other ones that get you out of bed in the morning. Well, I just make it a little better. I could probably sell it.

[01:03:46]Just make it a little better.

[01:03:49]>> Yeah. I I mean it for me it's it's always been about and and I I feel you're a little bit the same way.

[01:04:01]It's been about not just the winning.

[01:04:05]It's been about developing a really nice horse and selling it to somebody that then goes on and does well with it.

[01:04:11]Yeah.

[01:04:12]>> And keeping the whole thing rolling, you know, >> turning that into another one and turning that into another one and >> and keeping the whole thing rolling.

[01:04:20]>> Yeah.

[01:04:23]Yeah. I don't know how to follow that up, but I try.

[01:04:27]>> Yeah. No, I obviously you can tell by the horses you've turned out and the and the the business that you have that that program's working.

[01:04:39]>> Yeah. I'm fortunate to be as reckless as I am and have as much stuff as I got.

[01:04:46]>> Yeah, I really am. I would feel nobody's ever going to accuse you of being uh too conservative or >> Well, politically I would say, but financially I'm not.

[01:04:59]>> Yeah, that's for sure.

[01:05:03]>> If I'm if I'm broke, I just ask Monica, "Can I?" And she'll say, "Yeah, yeah, you can you can spend that."

[01:05:11]>> She knows. Yeah, she keeps track. I keep track of my head.

[01:05:17]Is it more of like a green or a red in your head or act like it's like green sunshine great red go red?

[01:05:25]>> Yeah.

[01:05:26]>> Oh, you I hate every puppy.

[01:05:31]>> And then you sell a horse and you're green again.

[01:05:34]>> You are the you are the worst I person I've ever met about that.

[01:05:40]And then you sell one for a lot of money and oh, let's go buy this one and this one and this one and this one.

[01:05:44]>> It don't even have to be for a lot of money. It just happen to be for some money. And I need >> this little bumpful.

[01:05:50]>> And I need an air horn on my truck and I need big silver wheels and I need >> Did you get two trucks once?

[01:05:59]>> No. No, I did not.

[01:06:00]>> I ended up with two trucks once.

[01:06:02]>> But didn't you pay him with a car or something?

[01:06:06]>> Yeah, he won some money. Yeah, that first NRBC that I went to one $22,000 30,000 something like that.

[01:06:16]>> Yeah.

[01:06:16]>> He bought handy a car. She hate it.

[01:06:18]She's bitching, complaining. I got this black car on this white road.

[01:06:24]>> Yeah. You don't want that car? I'll take that car. Yeah. But it was a little Lincoln uh it was a Lincoln LS. Yeah.

[01:06:32]And I uh >> you put like eight grand of stereo.

[01:06:35]>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I made $1,000 a month worth of time. Put $8,000 into a stereo.

[01:06:41]Loved every minute of it, too. Had a $10,000 car. Put an $8,000 stereo in.

[01:06:47]>> Yeah, that's a You were bowling in the day. It doesn't matter. I was going to make another $1,000 a month in the next month. Just keep riding horses. Just >> It doesn't matter where you're at or how much money you got. Just have enough to keep going and just go. I don't know.

[01:07:05]You knew where you were going and you only needed 1,000 bucks a month to get there.

[01:07:08]>> Going to get there.

[01:07:10]>> I think you learned you learned a lot. I feel like you learned a lot >> being around us, but I don't know about the about the spending money [ __ ] You gave me you gave me the book on it when I worked for you. You were not this way.

[01:07:28]>> We had a good time. There was a Ferrari that showed up at the ranch one day, bud.

[01:07:33]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:07:35]>> No, that's true.

[01:07:36]>> That's true.

[01:07:37]>> He gives Lee [ __ ] for the same thing, but she always is like, "Oh, don't let him fool you."

[01:07:42]>> Yeah. A Ferrari and a $4,000 tab at the strip club. Yeah.

[01:07:46]>> Yeah.

[01:07:46]>> It happens. We got like a 70in TV on the deck.

[01:07:52]>> Yeah, I think it's bigger than that.

[01:07:54]Probably. So, >> you got a jumbo truck. I got a bid from the guy.

[01:07:59]>> Yeah. I got a bid for a TV that's 14 by 20 >> for like the center of the arena like the jumbo trunk.

[01:08:07]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:07]>> Yeah.

[01:08:08]>> Dude, that'd be cool, dude.

[01:08:09]>> So So we could watch Carly.

[01:08:11]>> So we could watch Carly >> and basketball.

[01:08:14]>> He said we could He said, "I get bored out here training horses. I can watch TV."

[01:08:19]>> What? Yeah.

[01:08:21]>> Think of that.

[01:08:22]>> Okay. Okay. Well, maybe I'm not that responsible. I just make more than I spend. That's all.

[01:08:28]>> Yeah.

[01:08:29]That's just like in the last few months.

[01:08:31]You just track it.

[01:08:33]>> Yeah. Your wife says he was not like this when she had kid books.

[01:08:37]>> No. No. Yeah. Megan used to be Megan Joe's wife. Megan used to be our secretary.

[01:08:45]I didn't keep quite as good track.

[01:08:48]A little bit more still freewheeling.

[01:08:51]Just a a brush with brush with broke tends to jerk your chain a little.

[01:08:59]I live there.

[01:09:02]>> Yeah, fair enough. I >> got to be challenged.

[01:09:05]>> I understand. Yeah.

[01:09:06]>> Yeah. You got money in the bank. You get bored.

[01:09:09]>> All right. Get comfortable. Get bored.

[01:09:14]>> Well, I'm sorry I told you my story is not as interesting at as Joe's. I mean, there was no cult. There was no Well, there was plumbing. I wasn't a shoeer. I lived in Europe for a little while. You didn't do that. I mean, that was kind of cultish, wasn't it?

[01:09:30]>> No, not really.

[01:09:33]>> Well, the thing is, I told some stories that were uh a little bit, you know, on the edge, but those are the ones I could tell.

[01:09:43]>> Yeah, there's some that we shouldn't tell.

[01:09:45]>> Yeah, there's a few others I I didn't tell.

[01:09:47]>> Yeah, I appreciate you could tell.

[01:09:49]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, no, we had a lot of fun.

[01:09:51]That's one thing I will say. We had a lot of fun.

[01:09:55]>> We're going to keep having fun. Yeah, no doubt about it.

[01:09:59]>> No doubt about it.

[01:10:00]>> Do I have to say grow the show on one episode?

[01:10:03]>> I think so. I think you should.

[01:10:05]>> Yeah.