This video presents a critical examination of Christianity's historical relationship with Black people, arguing that Christianity was introduced to Africa through colonialism and slavery, and that its Western practice perpetuates white supremacy. The discussion explores whether Black people should abandon Abrahamic religions, with arguments presented for both sides: that Christianity provided an ethical framework and was used in the civil rights movement, versus that it was a tool of oppression and that African traditional religions offer more authentic spiritual heritage. The debate also covers philosophical questions about faith, evidence, and the nature of religious truth.
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Disussing Black People Leaving Abrahanic Religions 5/17/2026Added:
to come through. And once he comes through, uh, we can still have the the debate, have the discussion. So, whoever wants to like to come up can can come up. Uh, I did have Joe in the comments ask me what the skin color have to do with it. I'm just waiting for him to come up so we can talk. How's it going?
I'm sorry. Is your name Joe?
>> Yeah.
>> All right, Joe. How's it going? Um, are you at least 18 and are you some are you a Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew Israelite?
Uh I am uh which one?
>> Say again. Sorry, I was just putting my >> No, all good. Uh just three questions.
Are you at least 18 um Christian, Hebrew, Israelite, or Muslim? And are you a black person?
>> Christian.
>> Christian.
18.
>> Yes. Yes, I did say. Yeah. black.
>> Uh, yes.
>> And a black person. Okay, cool. Great.
Not a problem. All right. So, yeah, I don't believe and um my co-host will will join me in a moment. Uh, we don't believe that black people should be Christian um because of it was the religion of our enslavers and it was used to colonize and oppress us and the way that Christianity is ran in the west simply perpetuates white supremacy. Uh, do you disagree?
Well, that's your belief. Um I I think you're wrong.
>> Yeah. Sure. Sla Slavery existed before Christianity came to um Africa.
>> Yeah.
>> I didn't doubt that. Is that my point?
>> So what what was your point then? I'm still don't I still don't understand why you would say what colors how did we get Christianity and uh and in and Africa besides Ethiopia because people love to go to that but besides Ethiopia how did they get to central and western Africa through colonial correct >> no missionaries >> no colonist colonialism that's how we got it >> no >> yes >> if you if if if you if you read the the historical account or if you listen to um the people who are on the ground, they do tell you um how the missionaries first of all came about and then after the missionaries sent the report back, that's when now you had the people who were funding the missionaries wanting to come in and take over and control the resources cuz they have had the report from the missionaries.
>> That's incorrect. If you >> The missionaries weren't the first that went to Africa, bro. The people who went to Africa first were Portuguese merchants. They weren't missionaries.
Yeah, >> they were businessmen. They were businessmen and they were conquerors.
Hold on. Wait, hold on.
>> The first people who came into the into central and western Africa were not the missionaries. They were businessmen.
They were merchants and they were um concisadors, conquerors. It wasn't the missionaries.
>> So the way that we that we got Christianity in in central and western Africa wasn't through missionary work.
It was through colonizers.
>> Okay. So I am originally from East Africa.
Which part?
>> Uh Kenya.
>> Kenya. Yeah. So like uh um uh we we know that that Ethiopia had um Christianity, right? But when it first reached to to Kenya, who who were y um the first colonizers to reach Kenya? Was it the the English or uh the Portuguese? The Portuguese.
>> The Oh, the Portuguese uh in the coast.
>> The Portuguese and the coast. Okay, cool. I know. I know. The Portuguese went over on the west coast, but over on the eastern part of the continent, was it the English or the Portuguese?
>> It was the English.
>> The English. Okay, cool. So, the English that got there, they weren't the missionaries, bro. They the the English were the the the merchants.
>> Not not based on the on the historical accounts of the people that tell the stories of what has been passed down in that time. They tell their accounts of their forefathers. So who would we would call our ancestors. Yeah. That based on even the seers of that time what they had seen and what came about was first of all missionaries and then after that it was followed by colonialism. So I suppose you can see where for me I would ask that question. Why would you say black people should not be Christian?
Because based on the historical account of my people, the missionaries took their time to learn the language to translate the Bible for the people that were there and actually helped some of them actually escape from being enslaved. They the ones who made them wise as as to the tricks of the business people that wanted to enslave people without them being knowing that they are actually going to end up in a slave ship and be sent off.
So, >> so that that that's completely missed from the from the picture. So, you can't just paint I I don't disagree with you that they used Christianity >> to really enslave um enslave people and you can use any faith um Christianity Muslim to cause people to just feel like they're inferior. They're not even human.
>> I got you. I got you. I got you. Let's go let's go back to to um to the first people who were on the coast of Kenya.
you said that the people who first came to Kenya were were not um the the the merchants, it was missionaries >> because that goes completely against even the the European historical record.
So when you say that according to the Kenyan historical record, it was missionaries but the European historical record says merchants, doesn't that mean that they they might have told you something that was wrong and that was written down?
>> Well, I can only go with what um what has been um passed down. I I get that.
But but the question the question is Joe is that why do two different sources have two different um um stories? The Europeans themselves says that it was merchants who got to Kenya not missionaries. So how come the Kenyans have missionaries coming? Something is wrong.
>> Okay.
Right. Something is wrong. Right.
I I think you can you can argue something is is wrong. All I'm saying is based on your on your tag.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Even if we have the discrepancies that you say >> when you examine the text, >> it does I don't see where color comes in to be honest with you >> because this is >> if you're going to talk about slavery, you already agreed that it was before >> it was. Yeah. Slavery did exist on the African continent before Christians got there. I'm not lying. I'm not denying that. But it's still um it's still a fact. The reality is that Christianity got through to Africa through colonialism.
>> Yeah. So before we um before Kenya had Christianity, there was something else there, right? They were doing something else.
>> There was Yes.
>> Right. So the question then becomes why um give up or denigrate or demonize your entire spiritual heritage from some foreign thing some white people gave us?
>> Okay. So you you do realize that um for example the where Ethiopia is and the Ethiopia that is described in the text that's not the border that was there.
You do realize that?
>> I'm sorry. I I understand what you what you what you mean by that. Say that again.
>> So the country of Ethiopia as it is today the borders that we have >> Yeah.
>> are not the same borders that are referred to um correct in the Bible.
>> Yeah. Those were those the borders today are what the what the Europeans gave us.
Correct.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. When they did the scramble for Africa and just divided the territory.
>> Right. Right. Correct.
>> According to what they wanted. So you also have to understand there is remnants. Um for example there's a book by uh can't remember but the book is called eternity in their hearts. So this book goes back as to what did the people have before even Christianity was even arriving in these people. And what they do is they just get the what was passed down for the different communities. And what you get to find like even for for my people is that there was already um what would you call them? People now call them witch doctors. Uh but there were people who had already passed down the predictions of what was going to happen, which people were going to come and what they were going to bring. And the key thing was them bringing in the Bible, the revelation of what the people were seeking or hungry for. Now that does not mean there wasn't other spiritual uh ancestral worship uh and some different kinds of uh sacrifices but in there's a common thread that there was a certain god that we were meant to worship and we didn't have all the information.
Okay. So your your so your your your claim now is uh is that the spiritual tradition of Africa predicts that we're going to worship white people?
No. Why? Where is the white people worshiping coming from?
>> Jesus.
The image of Jesus is white.
>> The image of Jesus all over Africa is a white guy.
>> God is white.
>> No, he's not. But you >> So the the the image Come on. Hold on.
Hold on.
>> You know that's not correct.
>> I know it's not correct, but that's the e that's the that's the image all around Africa. We we both know that.
>> Okay.
>> Right. So you're literally worshiping a white guy. And the and the and the thing is though, how do we know? And the thing is though, and the thing is though, >> my my other question would be is that why would Christianity be the thing that was predicted to come and not our own spiritual tradition? Why would it why would it be Christianity?
>> Because God is the one who designed it that way.
>> How do you know that?
>> So the because the proximity exactly if you look at um >> what actually let me ask you a question.
How do you know that Christianity is true? Because we can't go back in time to see Jesus rise from the dead, right?
>> So, it becomes a question on how do we know that one is actually true? Because apparently a lot of the stories are not true. Like, do you think do you take Jonah in the well to be a serious story or something more allegorical?
>> Uh, I take it to be um yeah, a real story, a real account of something that happened. You take someone being swallowed by a whale to be something that actually happened.
>> Yes.
>> You realize that that's not possible to happen, right? Because the throat of a whale is way too small for a human to fit in.
>> Like the throat of a whale is is the size of this cap.
>> Like it's way too small for a person to fit into.
>> So Jonah is obviously something that isn't that didn't happen, right? It's more about procrastination and not following what you're supposed to follow, stuff like that. It's not an actual literal story.
>> Do you know the definition of parables?
>> It's not your turn. So yeah, Jonah and the well is actually not a literal story. It's allegorical, right?
>> No.
>> You think it's a literal story?
>> Absolutely.
>> Yeah, that's the problem. It's not. It's not a literal story.
>> Okay. Okay. I that's that's how you choose to understand it based on your own human understanding. What what we have to understand is that God is not a human being. So if obviously if obviously also do things that for us completely do not make sense. The same thing like when we talk about somebody walking on water feeding 5,000 men with two um what is it? Five loaves and two fish, you know, healing somebody with oadema or with the issue of blood, raising the dead. All those are not natural things are not things us as human beings can be able to look at and say, "Oh, we can be able to understand and make sense of that."
That's why we have room for belief and that's why when you ask me about the story of Jonah.
>> So the question >> I may not be able to explain to you in a human sense and say oh >> the whale and the size and the human being was there for 3 days.
>> Hold on hold on.
>> Go ahead.
>> The question is how do you actually know this is true? That's the that's the question. Because like Christianity is not the only one that has legendary stories. I'm pretty sure you know about the legendary stories in in um African traditional religion before Christianity came through. So the question then becomes why is Christianity the right one and our own traditions are wrong?
Why wh why why would that be the case?
>> It's only because when you examine the evidence of Jesus Christ that's the only thing you have to >> Jesus being a real person is fine, right? Jesus being a real person is fine.
>> Paul being a real guy is fine. The question is did he actually have powers?
That is not an evidence. That's just a part of the story.
>> Uh it's not part of the story. It it is part of the historical evidence of the things that happened.
>> What historical evidence do we have that Jesus had powers? What historical evidence we have of that?
>> Well, we have the uh antiquities of the Jews. We have the mentions in the uh in the Talmud uh and the records that are recorded about like the Rabbi Helil uh and uh the grandson uh Gamaliel and that connection for him training Paul. All of those are connections that we can be able to trace in history.
>> Those are connections that say that Jesus was a guy, but it's not that he had powers. They all said that yeah, he was a guy, but none of them said that he had actual powers. How do we actually show that powers exist? like that that that's that's what we need to show like for any for for Jesus to be plausible we would actually have to show that the supernatural the spiritual world is an actual real thing that we can detect that we can like we can know exist and how do we do that >> okay let me ask you the same thing I asked you before where do you leave room for faith so there's only so much evidence I can be you can be able to gather >> but at at a certain point it won't be 100% >> okay at a point where you're like that's it. It's just like how you are very convinced with your belief.
>> No, no, I I got you. I understand that.
I I get the faith part, right? Um but this is where I would say that faith is unreliable because like there were people who who lived for thousands of years, the ancient Greeks, right? They had faith that Zeus was creating lightning by sitting on the mountain and his Fesus was building up his boats and giving it to him. We know that's wrong, right? Lightning doesn't come from a guy sitting on a mountain throwing down bolts built by another guy. That's not true. But they had faith in it. They had so much faith in it that the thing that we still do today came from them. The Olympic Games. The Olympic Games is all about worshiping Zeus. But we we still do that today. But we know that um Zeus is not the person that we worship for this, right? It was just a sporting event. You know what I'm saying? So we still do it today. But they invented it in order to worship a guy. You know what I'm saying? But like what they were worshiping was absolutely wrong. But they had faith in it. So like when it comes to to uh to the question of faith like I understand that sure like we can make some room for it. I I think if we go down a whole list of things there's going to be something that I'm probably going to have to take on. Okay. I don't have a lot of evidence on it is is just faith, right? But is it reliable? That's that's the the question that's going to be in question. How how do we how do we reliably depend on this thing that is essentially a coin flip? You see what I mean?
Can I speak or is it not my turn?
>> Not your turn yet. You're you're in the queue.
>> Okay. Um, no. I I totally hear what you're saying, but everything that you have said falls down when we examine the evidence um uh for Jesus Christ. So, there's been um like good good books um written by people who are um former atheist investigating this. There's that book uh what is Cold case for Christ.
Cold case cold case Christianity.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um but but um Joe, like I want you to understand my position. I don't doubt that Jesus is probably a real guy. I don't doubt that part, right? It's the being the son of God walking on water. Those parts I don't take as seriously. And it's not just Jesus. It's other things in the Bible, too. Like I like I said, I'm pretty sure uh I'm I'm pretty sure that David was a real guy, right? We have a historical record of David. He's he's in the record. So, we know David existed, but did he actually cut off a thousand foreign skins? Did he actually fight like a 9 foot or 20 foot giant person?
That that's that all that's probably just legendary. You know what I mean?
That's that's the part I'm talking about. Like, I don't doubt that he was probably a real person. Did he actually have the powers? That's what's in doubt.
And we have no way to prove that part.
You see what I mean? Like, I don't have any issue with Jesus being a real person.
>> But, but then, but then the resurrection part. Yeah, based on on the materials that is readily available shows that with like a high degree of um confidence that actually this guy did rise again and we have no way of understanding how that happened.
>> But Joe, there is >> there's only stories. There's no evidence that this guy rose from the dead. None. There's only stories.
>> What's the greatest evidence that somebody rose again? What's the one thing that you won't find?
>> What's the only thing that you won't find?
It's a body.
>> Yeah, bro. That um if you're going to make that claim based on the history based on the history we know about the uh the Romans.
>> Joe, hold on. If you're going to make the claim that the greatest evidence someone rose from the dead is that you can't find a body, then my grandfather rose from the dead. Because guess what happens when I go to Haiti? His tomb is empty.
>> Mhm.
>> So, did my grandfather rise from the dead?
>> No. But in this case, we have we have a we have people that say they saw Jesus Christ after that.
>> Right? But those what I'm saying is that that only comes from um Paul. Only Paul says he saw um um Paul says that 500 people saw him. We have no idea who 500 people are. There's no records of them.
There's no there's nothing. It's only Paul that says that.
>> Okay.
Joe, go ahead and come on come on back another time. I do want to move on to the to the other people there. No worries and I understand.
>> Yeah, I got you. But I I do appreciate you being though. We could definitely talk more. All right.
>> All right. Cheers, bud.
>> Not a problem. All right, guys. Uh Jazz, it's going to be your turn right now.
Just give me one second. Hey, guys. Uh I appreciate you all being here. Anderson, I do see you in the in the chat right now. Just give or in the um the Streamyard. Just give me a few moments.
Um I am still waiting for Black Atheus Rants to join us. Black Atheus R is going to be here soon. Um, once again, if you're watching me from the Deconstruction Junction, I appreciate you there. Uh, go ahead and keep the conversation going. If you're watching me from Vuly Thoughts, I appreciate you there. Big one on those numbers today.
I'm going to put up the the gift goal up in a second. Thank y'all so much for for being here. And if you're watching me over, like I said, on Deconstruction Junction. Thank y'all so much, y'all. I appreciate y'all. We're going to go ahead and move on to Jazzy. And then Heritage is going to be right after Jazzy. Uh, let me start this clock over.
Uh, Jazzy, are you at least 18? And do and are I'm sorry, Jazzy.
>> Are you at least 18? Are you Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew, Israelite? And are you a black person?
>> Uh, um, yes, I am over 18, and I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm a Christian, but I do believe in Yeshua.
And, uh, I don't prefer to say my race.
Are you allowed to say [ __ ] >> I mean, anybody could say, but I'm not going to. So, that gives you that gives you your answer.
>> Okay. On the United States Census, which one would you cross off?
>> Wait, say that one more time.
>> If you were to fill out the United States Census, which one would you be crossing off on the United States Census?
Uh, to be honest with you, I don't even know what that means.
>> Jesus [ __ ] Christ. You've never taken the census for for Okay, never mind. Do you have my skin tone?
>> No.
>> All right, so you're not black. Cool.
Um, actually, Jesus Christ. Were your ancestors from Africa?
>> Well, we all come from Africa, but >> recently.
Do you come from a history where your where your ancestors were enslaved and bought to America or the Caribbean?
>> No.
>> Okay, cool. So, you're not black. That's all you had to say is no, bro. That's all you have to say was no. All right.
So, not >> No. No. We didn't have to go through all this. All you had to say was no. All right. So, so uh so Jazzy, um yeah, I don't think that black people should be Christian. Why do you think we should be?
I feel like, okay, first off, and I wanted to ask you this, and I'm going to make it real quick because I know I got a time limit. Um, what do you believe in?
>> I'm an atheist.
>> So, what do you think happens when you die?
>> That's it.
>> So, you think you go into a void?
>> Yeah. Where our consciousness is it it ends. We're we're gone. Unless they come up with cloning technology or brain mapping or something like that, then other than that, we're we're gone.
Unless you think that consciousness is part of another dimension, then uh you know, we need some evidence for that.
Let me ask you right now.
>> Do you think you were >> Okay, I know. I got you on that.
>> Now, do you think that this is your first time being here? Like this is just >> Yeah, as far as I know. Of course, because just like when you wake up from a dream, right? So, life is like a dream. Okay. Now, then the reason why I'm going with this is Yeshua, you're talking about like superpowers like walking on water, turning water into wine and stuff like that. But when Yeshua came down, he was really teaching us how to be like God.
You see what I'm saying? So, we're all made in the image of God and Yeshua is really trying to teach you that. So, yes, I do believe that Yeshua is my savior. I do believe he died on the cross >> for our sins.
>> Okay. So, you're a Christian, >> but he was also So, you're a Christian.
All right. So, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's here's the thing. Um Yosua or or Jesus or whatever, >> sure, he could have been he could have existed as a real person, right? That's fine. The question then becomes, did he actually rise from the dead? Did he actually cure people? Uh, etc., etc. Um, what evidence do we have that >> I believe he did?
>> I I do believe that he did because there's documented records on that.
>> No, there there's there's not really a documented record that that that he rose from the dead. There's a story. Sure, we have a story in the Bible. Well, I'm not talking I'm not Well, I'm not talking about rising from the dead, but yes, I do believe he he rose from the dead, but I'm talking about uh like killing people and stuff like that and creating miracles. Yes, I do believe that is true.
>> There's no there's no record of that, too. But the thing is there's no record.
There's no actual record of that. Only the Bible.
>> Well, yeah, that's what the Bible is.
Those are records.
>> The the the Bible is is scripture. It's not really record. It's legendary stories. It's not really a record.
Well, that's why I was saying uh parables, okay? Because there there's a thing that talks about parables. So like yeah, there are some things like uh that that that might not necessarily happen, but it's in a parable.
>> Right. Right. So like I understand parables, right?
>> I I do get uh I do get parables.
Parables are um essentially, you know, stories that's supposed to be giving us an actual lesson. The people in it in the stories can be real or they can be they can be false. I can make a parable right now with me and my dad, right? So my dad is a real person. I'm a real person. But the the story that I put my me and my dad in, is that story true?
That would be the the um the the question. Now um when it comes to to parables, we have modern day parables like Red Riding Hood and you know the three little pigs. Those are modern day parables. So I understand that Jesus spoke in parables. I don't have an issue with that, right? I don't have an issue with Jesus being a real guy. He let's say he was is the powers actually real?
That's where this that's where the question comes in.
>> Yes.
>> Okay, cool. Because how do you actually prove that?
>> Well, there's obviously no there's obviously no way to truly prove it because we haven't been there in those times to to see it or witness it. But there there's people that can still do it in this day and age.
>> Still do what?
>> That Huh? Say that one more time. There are people who can still do what?
>> That create miracles >> that can heal people.
>> All right. So why don't they um work at St. Jude Hospital and and cure all the kids who have cancer?
>> Because it doesn't work like that. Cuz it doesn't work like to where you can just go up to any person and just be okay here. Boom.
>> Why not?
>> Because that's not how the universe works. The the universe is full of chaos.
>> The universe isn't magic. Dark light. I agree. The universe is not magic. I agree. So So miracles are silly.
No, miracles are not silly because they actually it actually does exist. But you can't just go out and just be like, "Here, miracle, miracle, miracle, miracle." Like, >> why not?
>> Because because then then you're not learning anything.
>> What do you mean you're not learning anything? What do kids who have cancer need to learn?
>> Listen, okay, let me ask you a question.
If okay and and and this is getting a little bit deep and I'm not saying this is necessarily true but if if you were to like done something crazy like let's uh the files right that person that did the files you know who I'm talking about I don't want to I don't want to get you banned or nothing but you know who I'm talking about >> exactly who you're talking about >> okay so if he were to die and then got reincarnated what like what do you think would happen to him >> if he were to die and got reincarnated.
>> Do you think he would live a prosperous life or do you think he would have uh a life that >> he would probably have a a a messed up life? But listen, at the end of the day, see now, I don't believe in hell. I don't believe that somebody goes to hell and burns in all eternity because that never gives you a chance to correct yourself. Everybody has a second chance.
Everybody. And I when I say everybody, I mean everybody. You can name the most wicked person here on this earth.
>> They'll have a second chance.
>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's wonderful.
That's great. That that that's great.
That that's that's a great belief.
>> My only u um thing is that how do we now show this to be true? Because I've never heard of a of a Christian that believes in reincarnation. Like that's that's very rare. So that that's really interesting. But how do we actually show that to be actually real to be true?
Because if there are miracles, that's fine that you believe there are miracles. then you know cure cure the kids of cancer in St. hospital, give them a give them a miracle.
>> But but it does it doesn't work like that because like I said, like the universe is full of chaos.
So it can't like you have to have the dark and you have to have the light. So you're going to have people that suffer and you're going to have people that prosper. Like that that that's what makes duality. Like you can't I don't know, man. Sounds like a copout one without the other.
>> I don't know, man. Sounds like a copout.
What what what do what what do kids with cancer need to learn? Like why why why do they need the cancer? I I don't get that.
>> No. Like listen, okay, even a kid with cancer, if they die, they're going to be with the Most High again.
So it looks rough here on the surface, but it's really not though.
>> All right. So what if if if they're going to be have to like go into a thought of state of mind >> jazz if they're going to be with the most high again then why let them suffer here on earth just just make them be born in heaven there's no there's no point of making them suffer >> no I agree with you on that but but there is like okay the same way I told you I don't believe in hell I don't necessarily believe in heaven per se the same way like you like just like here on earth you either have hell or you have heaven. It just it's hard to explain, man. But all right, so understand there's no heaven like >> all right. So there's no heaven or hell.
It's just re reincarnation.
But the kids who have have cancer necessarily needed to have the cancer uh to to to what I I I I don't know what the end goal is here for the for those kids to suffer with cancer. What what was the end goal? I don't I don't get it. Sounds kind of messed up to your >> Well, it's the same question like Yeah.
Well, the same way that we butcher animals to eat them, right? And those same animals like that's that's the cycle of life. It >> it is messed up, but that's the cycle of life. And it just like not everything here on earth can be perfect. That's the thing that you got to understand.
>> I'm not asking.
>> It's not necessarily saying like that's not what that's not what the Most High wants, but but yes, it does occur, but that's what whole free will is and everything like that. So yes, there is going to be some messed up things that happen on this earth. So kids who are born with >> so Jazz Jazzy kids who are born with bone cancer use their free will to give themselves bone cancer. That that sounds kind of silly.
>> No. See you're not understanding it the way it is supposed to be.
>> I get free will. I I get the entire thing free will. I'm talking about things that are are outside of our choices. Like people being born with diseases. They didn't use their free will to do that. I could use my free will to put on this hat, right? Like boom free will. I put on a hat. I can use my free will to smoke cigarettes for 20 years and I get lung cancer. That was part of my free will. I'm talking about children who are actually born with diseases. How was that free will?
>> They're just born with it.
>> Okay. So, it it's the same way with like planets. Okay. Why is Earth the only one where life is is formed, right?
>> As far as we know.
>> That's as far as we know.
>> As far as we know. Yes, I do. No, I'm not talking about the whole universe.
I'm talking about in our solar system.
>> I got you. I got you. So, so like uh what is it? Venus or Mercury or I don't I don't know if I got them mixed up.
Mercury or Venus, whatever. Uh it there's no life on on on those planets.
>> Mhm.
>> It's the same way with children children. Like I told you, the universe is full of chaos. So there's there's there's both good and bad within the universe. There's life and death within the universe. So even if a kid has cancer and they end up dying, they're going to die and then >> they're going to have another life. Like it's not you can't look at it like it's just so negative like God just wants this person to suffer. That's not how it is.
>> All right. So a glimpse, >> right? So these these these children are going to to suffer through debilitating sickness in order to die and be born again. It's like having a nightmare.
>> That that's that that that's that sounds messed up. So it's it's a it's like having a nightmare.
>> It's not messed up.
>> It is. It is messed up, man. Cuz cuz cancer is terrible. So it it is messed up. But listen a life you're talking about and I and I don't mean >> I don't know why why children need to why I don't know. I don't understand why children need to suffer in order to to what's the end goal to reincarnate again? What's the end?
>> So no, I'm not even talking about reincarnation. But listen, if there was no bad, there could be no good. You can't have good without bad, >> right? No, I'm I'm not asking for things to be perfect. I'm asking for things to be perfect. I'm But but but suffering needlessly doesn't need to happen, does it?
>> Useless suffering. That's what I'm talking about. needless, useless suffering that doesn't need to happen in a sense with the because like just like protons and electrons, there's always an opposite.
It's always an opposite. So, what I'm trying to tell you is yes, to be honest, there h like there it's there doesn't have to be suffering, but there's going to be suffering. As long as there's people living in paradise, there's going to be pe people living in poverty as well. Cuz there has to be an opposite. And that's what makes the universe the universe.
It's unique as one.
>> I mean, two, the light and the dark.
>> I mean, that doesn't really >> I know it doesn't make sense.
>> That doesn't really ask my question.
>> It doesn't make sense unless you really think about it.
>> No, I I don't think so. But, uh, Jazzy, we're going to go have that. I have to go ahead and move on. But I do appreciate you uh being here. We'll talk talk again soon. All right.
>> No, I got 45 seconds left. I got 45 seconds left.
>> All right, cool. Go ahead and uh and use the 45 seconds.
>> I just want to say to everybody on the chat.
>> Alrighty. Um Heritage, how's it going?
Heritage, uh are you at least 18? Are you Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew Israelite? And um >> are you a black person?
>> Are you a black person? G have to turn off the stream in the background.
>> Turn off the stream in the background.
>> Let me check.
>> Yeah, let me see if that's better.
>> Yeah, that that that's that's much better. All right, cool. So, um what's uh what's uh what what's what's good?
I don't think that should be >> over 18 question. All right, great.
100% African.
>> All right. Cool. Great.
>> All right. Cool. Great. Um, heritage.
Um, Christian and a and a black person.
Um, I don't think that black people should be Christian. Uh, why you think we should be?
>> Why? Because uh go back to ABC though back the history of Africans.
Bro, we have uh different dietes deities all over Africa. Means there is a greater source or a creator.
>> Can you say that again? You you are muffled. I I didn't hear any of that.
>> Are you hearing me now?
>> I can hear you better now. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> All I'm saying is uh Africans are to be Christians.
Africans are to be Christians, >> you know, because tracing back to our >> Yeah, you're going in and out, buddy.
>> If not all, at least some.
>> Yeah, heritage. You're going in and out.
I I didn't I didn't hear a word you said. You said that Africans are to be Christian. Why?
>> Yeah.
And I'm and I'm saying dating back to ages when we we goes back to centuries or some years back where our forefather >> Heritage, you're going to have to get better Wi-Fi, man, cuz you you you keep going in and out. Do do me a favor. Go ahead and and >> we used to >> All right, Heritage, do me a favor. Go ahead and get to a better area because you were going you keep going in and out of in and out. So, get to a better area and then and then come on back. Hey, uh, Bar, are you there, bro? Give me one second. Larry and Anderson, give me one second. Hey, Bar, let me know if you if you're there yet.
Bar, let me know if you if you're there yet.
>> Yeah, I'm I'm here. I'm joining I'm joining on the uh webcam now.
>> All right, cool. Cool. Over on the with the um over on the StreamYard, right?
>> Yeah, I'm joining it now.
>> All right, cool. uh Anderson over on my streamard. I'm going to bring you up once um a bar comes in. All right, then we'll we'll bring you up. Uh just give me one second because I know you had a lot to talk about with him as well. Hey, uh Larry, how's it going, Larry? Are you at least 18, Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew, Israelite? And are you a black person?
>> Yeah, I'm uh 35. Uh I'm Christian and u I'm not fully black, but uh I'm probably about 30% black. Does that count? Is that black enough? I guess >> 30%.
>> I guess my question would be is uh wouldn't that just be an appeal to authority? Couldn't someone who's not black have a an opinion that could convince black people to actually follow Christianity?
>> No. I mean, I can actually we we can we can still talk about it, but we the only reason why we ask is um because we like to uh speak directly to to black people who are Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew, Israelite. Um but if you are not a black person, sure, you can I can still get your opinion. uh why should black people be Christian?
>> Sure. Well, I would just say that uh if we were to take uh all of the world paradigms as a whole, and I don't think that there's uh an infinite amount of those, I think that Christianity provides the best explanation for uh our epistemic views, um ethics and metaphysics.
>> It doesn't.
>> Well, okay. That's not an argument.
Yeah, because um things that are things that are asserted without evidence can also be rejected with without evidence.
>> Okay. What was asserted without evidence?
>> Everything that you just said.
Christianity um uh best uh comports to uh metaphysics, esm epistemology, and everything else that you said. I just said no.
>> I mean, I'm just I'm just framing it right like we have to get into the argument before you can say it's false.
>> Okay. So what what evidence do we have that that Christianity best um best gets what what what did you say again? You said epmology and what else?
>> Uh yeah so uh epistemology, ethics and metaphysics. So we can start with something like ethics. Uh there's basically only two routes you can take with ethics and I think you would agree with this. Uh you can either have subjective or uh objective interpretations of how ethics work. uh on a secular worldview I see no way that you can get anywhere uh anywhere to an objective realm on right or wrong. So uh right off the basis of that I would say that uh uh secular ethics just falls apart because then it just becomes a matter of preference. So if I were to say something like hey you know um slavery is wrong and somebody else has a different opinion on that their opinion would be equally as valid as mine. It becomes an incoherent worldview.
Um, aren't you in the same position?
>> No, because my worldview has an objective standard for morality.
>> That doesn't mean that God exists.
>> But that's just a that's just a preference that um that that you have because under Christianity is just a is just an opinion. Islam is just an opinion too.
>> So under Christianity, Hold on, hold on, hold on.
>> You're under my position. And the reason why that why that is is because you simply prefer Christianity. And we know that you prefer Christianity because you're not Muslim or you're not Hindu.
There are other religions out there that also have their own sort of ethical framework. So you just can't say be because I'm Christian I have an objective worldview. The people someone who's Muslim can say the same thing.
Even someone who's secular can say the same thing. There are people who who argue that you can have objective morals under secularism. So like that entire premise is just wrong.
>> Well, how can you have objective morals under secularism?
>> I don't know. You have to talk to someone who who advocates for that. I think um there's a what's his name? Uh Ian, I think I I think Ian talks about that, but I I I particularly don't know.
I think um a moral are subjective. Even though if your god were to exist, it would still be subjective.
>> Well, he wouldn't be subjective. I I think that's um >> so >> No, I think people say that um it would be subjective because God is ultimately a subject. But if God is the creator of all things, if we derive all of our morality, all of our logic, all of our epistemic knowledge from God, to merely say he's just a subject, um I would say >> he would still be a subject is definitionally incorrect.
>> He will still be a subject.
>> No, because it reduces God down to like a material state and God is immaterial and as you would know.
>> Okay, so now we're getting into I guess philosophical ideas here. So, how would you justify things like the self?
>> What do you mean justify the self? That makes no sense.
>> Okay. Well, you said that um like like the mind. Are you saying that the mind and the self are immaterial?
>> The mind is our brain is not immaterial.
Our brain is material. The mind is not >> right. So, I guess do immaterial realities exist in your worldview.
>> Immaterial realities. I'm not sure if that's even a thing. Like the mind uh do you look at the mind as being uh a part of like are the mind and the brain the same thing to you or do you look at the brain as being >> like a physical state and the mind is something that's immaterial like when you have a thought >> do you think that there's like molecules in your brain that like rearrange themselves and that's what your thought is or do you think that the mind exists immaterially of the brain?
>> Um no the the the the mind is what the brain produces. So um we we've never we never detected consciousness or a mind without a physical brain. So the the the mind is what the the the mind is basically what what's being produced by the brain, >> right? But is that material or immaterial? Like >> do you understand like what I'm saying?
Like the the brain obviously is material. I don't think either one of us would would >> have issues with that. Right. But the mind itself, like when you conceptualize something in your head, >> is that just molecules like brain molecules in your mind rearranging themselves and like you're having this thought and that's just molecule molecules in your brain that are rearranging and creating that thought?
>> Correct. They're not actually >> they're they're emergent. Molecules, chemicals, etc. They come together in order to to make something new. Your thoughts are emergent.
>> Yeah. Okay. What What do you mean by emergent?
>> They're um they're physical things that come together to make something new.
just like fire. It's it's it's emergent.
>> Yeah. Physical things that So again, I don't know if that really explains the the question. So like when you say it's emergent, are you saying that the brain is immaterial? I mean the mind is immaterial or or is it material?
>> It's material, but they the um the um well what when we talk about when we're speaking I guess colloquially right we can say like our mind is something completely immaterial but it's made from material things like you can see your thought patterns in your brain. You see which >> yeah I don't think we disagree on that >> right >> that the the mind the mind is connected to the brain right the brain is material >> I would argue from my my worldview that the mind is immaterial >> yeah I I um I don't have an issue with that the mind could be something that's immaterial >> okay and then like maybe maybe we'll get some agreeance here another immaterial reality may be something like the laws of logic >> when you say immaterial reality I'm not sure what what what that means either >> it it means it's not made of parts like you can't see under a microscope, right?
So like I could put the brain underneath a microscope and I could use empirical data to >> Well, the laws of logic are just a description of reality. They're they're not something onto themselves.
>> Okay. But do you think that like do the laws of logic actually exist immaterally or do you think that we just create them?
>> We create the labels for them like they they're things that that happens in reality and we're describing them.
That's all the laws of logic are.
Well, trying to think of how to best uh ask you a question on this. I guess maybe pose something here, but >> one of the things that the laws of logic aren't things onto themselves. They're they're what we made up to describe what we're seeing in reality.
>> Okay. So, you're saying that we make up the laws of logic.
>> Yeah. We we made up what we saw in reality. Well, we we came up with a description basically. So, if we make up the laws of logic, um I I believe that would just be a self-defeating uh it's a it's a defeater essentially because you would be saying we make up these laws of logic and that thing is objectively true. But if you're making up logic, how could you point out that that thing is objectively true?
>> Well, what I'm saying is that we we made up the labels. We're describing what we see in the universe. Basically, the universe has >> We agree on that.
>> We agree with that, right? like these laws of logic exist >> and we've described like the law of non-contradiction what that thing is.
>> We're just describing what we see in the universe. What I'm saying is >> where we diverge though is I'm saying that the the the law of non-contradiction is immaterial. It actually exists.
We can't see it.
>> But if it didn't exist, we wouldn't even be able to communicate because that's what governs logic.
>> I'm not I'm not sure which what you mean.
>> Let me go ahead.
So, how h how does this get to why black people should practice the religion that was forced on them? Like, I'm not understanding how all of this fil bro [ __ ] gets us to answering that question because you talking about the law of logic and all this this this is irrelevant. Every every uh culture, every tribe, every ancient group of people had their own uh ways to navigate the universe. Everyone had their own means to uh like spiritual systems and all that [ __ ] Everybody had that. So what for for what reason should people who have been colonized, subjugated and forced to believe in Christianity, why should they practice this religion?
>> Well, I would answer the first part of that would be ethical claims, right? So we were kind of talking about ethics before we got diverted into this. So you were talking about being subjugated, right? in an atheistic worldview. As far as I'm concerned, nobody's ever given a good surrounding point from it doesn't matter because you're talking about you're talking about an atheistic worldview.
That's not even the point yet before you.
>> That's not the conversation.
>> It is, but you're not understanding. You cut me off. Larry, pause. Let me finish my point. No, you can tell me.
>> I know what the point is. You're saying that you're saying that under the Christian worldview we have you have an eth you have an ethical standard that's objective and if God says slavery is wrong that then it'll be wrong. Atheists don't have that. That's wrong on two accounts. Number one, like I said, well, three accounts. Number one, like I already said, God is already a subject.
And number two, he's actually um um given instructions to hold Hold on.
>> You're making an assertion have to prove that it's not an it's not an assertion.
>> Then justify it. Is is God a being?
>> Um I would say God is immaterial.
>> Is he a being?
>> I material being. Sure.
>> He's a subject then. So what the thing is a bro things are subject. You you realize nouns are a subject, right? This is a subject. This phone is a subject.
I'm a subject. You're a subject.
>> God is a subject. If it's a being is a subject.
>> So like hold wait on hold on hold on hold. Let me let me finish with this.
>> You're wrong on several accounts. Number two, when it comes to the to the atheistic worldview, you can account for things like morals being wrong because under our under our under my worldview particularly, I'm all about human well-being. Slavery objectively does not I don't need to just I need to justify justify human wellbeing. Are you serious?
>> You're just you're just making statements, claims. What I'm saying is >> I didn't make a claim. I didn't make a claim, Larry. I didn't make a claim. I stated my position. No, no, no, no.
Larry Larry Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry, be quiet. Please, >> I didn't make a claim. I said under my world view, I um uplift human well-being and slavery does not uplift human well-being.
It just doesn't. All evidence shows that, right?
There's no evidence to show that slavery is good for anyone. So that that that's number one. I can show under under that paradigm. I can say slavery is wrong.
Under your paradigm is whatever God wants. And in the Bible, God has actually ordered slavery.
So, this will be ridiculous to say that I can't um morally say slavery is wrong when your Bible literally says that slavery is all good and well and your God orders it. That's ridiculous.
And we have three more minutes.
And it gets worse because we're talking about objective morality coming from someone's cultural myth that they made up. Yahweh out of the Bible is a madeup God just like all the rest. How can objective morality come from a tribal deity from the southern Levant region?
That's why this conversation that's why I was trying to stop you because this conversation doesn't make sense. This is not an internal critique of your religion. When we step outside of the what if God is real then we have no reason to be having this conversation when it pertains to black people and religion. It makes sense because >> and the other problem is that there are other ethical frameworks outside of Christianity. Confucianism, Daoism, voodoo, all them have ethical frame all.
Okay. All right. So, if no one denies that saying that we should be Christian for an ethical framework is a stupid argument. I could be you can say I could be I should be Buddhist under that under under that argument. That's ridiculous.
>> Okay. Are all religions true?
>> No.
>> No. All of them are false.
>> Okay. So, how would how would how would the argument that any religion can fill in?
>> All of them are false. All religions are man-made. Every god that can be named can be traced back.
>> I'm just responding to his argument that it could be any religion. It can't be any religion. He just self-reputed himself.
>> Yes, it can be any religion because because Larry, you just said that it provides you provide some ethical framework, but you cannot prove any religion to be true, including yours.
>> Okay, that's that's a claim.
>> So, ethic so ethical? No, it's not a claim. You literally can't prove it to be true. Can you go back in time right now and see Jesus rise from the dead?
Can you do it?
>> Okay. When you say, >> "Can you go back in time right now to prove to see Jesus rise from the dead?"
Can you do it?
>> I don't have a time machine.
>> Exactly. So, we can't prove it to be true. Christianity Christianity passes or fails on Jesus rising from the dead.
No, you stop. This is my stage.
>> Christianity. No, no, no. You stop. This is my stage. You're not going to call the stage. Christianity rise stop or or succeeds or fails on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. None of us can go back in time and see him rise from the dead. So, none of us can prove it to be true.
Period.
>> Can I respond now?
>> Go ahead.
>> Is the only way to prove truth claims through empiricism?
>> Mostly. Yeah.
>> Is it the only way?
>> Is it the only way? I'm not sure.
>> Okay. Because you're making an empirous claim right now that the only way we can prove this thing is if we were there to see it. That's empiricism, right? The things that we see are the things that are true. But that's also a circular argument.
Actually, that's actually actually that um um that's wrong because empiricism doesn't only take sight into consideration. There's other things too.
>> But do we have any Yeah, the census. But do we have any type of physical evidence for um for Jesus rising from the dead?
>> Physical. So again, so you're saying that there's only physical >> such thing such a thing can only be phys with the physical evidence. Accounts are just claims and we don't even and the only accounts that we have is Paul saying some someone 500 people saw it.
We have no idea who 500 people are. We have none of their memoirs, none of their names, none of it.
>> Okay. But you don't have again with how do you interpret the rest of history?
>> What do you mean how the rest of history? We have we have archaeological we have archaeological evidence of these people. We have several um pinpoints um that that could show these people either existed or were around. Right? Like I I said several times, I don't have a problem with Jesus being a real guy. The powers is what we have an issue with.
>> But you don't have archaeological evidence that Jesus actually existed. So why would you believe that if you're empiricist?
>> Um um the uh yeah, which is the problem, right? So when it goes to when it goes to Hold on, hold on.
when it comes to uh Jesus being a real person, right? The best historians have is basically Tacitus rewriting um the Roman history, right? That's the best that they got. And Paul Paul saying that he met James, the brother of Jesus.
That's where you and Yeah. And Joseph is saying that uh the the the Jewish people worship a guy named Jesus. That's the best that we got.
>> Empirical evidence.
>> None of that is empirical. Exactly. So, but the thing is the thing um the thing is the reason why why why I accept it is is because this this is right now the historical consensus. I don't know how historians make consensus, right? But if that's the historical consensus, hold it can be wrong. Larry, you need to slow down. Consensus can be wrong. But if the historical consensus says that Jesus was likely real, I don't have an issue with that. If he was fake, I don't have an issue with that. Right? I don't I'm agnostic on Jesus being important to be real, right? I just give it to y'all that Jesus was a real guy. Whatever.
That doesn't make his power was real.
That's what I'm saying. Let >> me ask you a question because it's along these lines. Is there historical consensus that the uh that the apostles truly believe that Jesus rose from the dead?
>> Yeah, they really believe that.
>> Okay. So, why is that wrong if you just believe in historical >> because some someone believing something doesn't make it true. There's a consensus. There's a consensus the other way. There's a consensus that they believed it. There's not a consensus that he actually did it. Those are two different things, bro. The hell we talking about? All right, man. Time's up. Time's up. We We We getting out of here. I'm I'm I'm tired. All right.
How's it going, Bar? Shout Shout out to Bar, y'all. Bar's in the building.
What's going on, y'all?
Hey, y'all. Appreciate y'all. And y'all, Bar just dropped a phenomenal album.
Phenomenal album. Y'all go ahead and check that out. I've been jamming that last um that last song for for a while.
But hey, >> yeah, >> it's amazing.
>> I appreciate it.
>> All right, guys. Just a quick second.
All right, we have do have Anderson in in the bill. I spoke a long time with Anderson last time, but I think he wants to talk to you as well, Bar. But before we do that, if you are watching me from the Black Atheist Coalition, I appreciate you watching me from there over on the Black Atheist Coalition.
Man, really big win on those numbers.
Thank y'all so much for watching me um over on the Black Atheist Coalition.
We're already at thousands of views and 70 people watching. Thank y'all so much for watching me over there. All right, we do have some people in the queue. We have Defro, we have Mike, and we have Uboo. Oh man, I'm I'm going to destroy that name. I'm sorry. But we have people in the queue. We're going to go ahead and get you on next. Um if you're watching me over on the Deconstruction Junction, I appreciate you watching me there as well. Big big win on those numbers. We're almost at 1,000 over on Deconstruction Junction. We're almost at 1,000 over on Vuly Thoughts. You guys are amazing. Thank y'all so much for being here. If you're watching me over from Twitch once again, um it should be in the board on how to join in.
Thank y'all so much for watching me over on Twitch as well. All right, guys.
We're going to go ahead and move on. We got Anderson on the stage. Anderson, we spoke uh last time. Uh, I think we have more discussed today. As y'all can see, Anderson is another um, black person, but he's an interesting case because he is an agnostic just like us, but he doesn't think that we should um discourage or encourage people to leave the Christian faith or any faith of that matter. Uh, Anderson, let's go ahead and talk again. What did you want to talk about today?
>> Um, yeah. Yeah, that's that's kind of my view there. Um, how's it going? I'm all I'm all right. All right. So, yeah, we don't think that black people should be Christian because it's the religion of our enslavers. Uh why do you think that we should stay within the religion of our enslavers?
>> Yeah, I think I think that there's kind of like a there's a meta view that I think uh that your world or maybe this worldview has that I just totally disagree with. And I think the core of it is which is why I wanted to kind of understand why you left, you know, Christianity. like I really want to care about what's true.
Um, so I really try and step outside of of my own personal interest or how my own uh background links me to whatever I'm trying to investigate regardless of how it makes me feel. Right? So many people will say, "Hey, how can you live? How can you leave, you know, Christianity? You know, you're black.
Being Christian is extremely important."
and they'll list out, you know, all the reasons and I go, that doesn't mean anything to me. I want to know what's true regardless of of me being black and wanting to be Christian. But I think similarly um when it comes to valuing uh valuing ancient you know African religions valuing them over more modern religions you know like the Judeo-Christian religions. I I don't want to play the game of these religions are the older African religions are better. Why? Because th those are our ancestors religion as in that gives them some sort of priority when it comes to truth when it comes to um how that's how that how the belief system you know interacts you know in the world. both systems are not true but maybe one of them is more true and can lead to more positive you know outcomes you know in the modern day so that is to say to keep it bluntly uh to just say it bluntly I think that what you have over time is you have like an evolution of most religions and I don't want us to cling to the ancient African ones simply because those are the religions of you know our ancestors they're just simply not as good of a way of advancing human well-being uh simply because they're older, simply because they haven't been through the same type of renaissance as, you know, like the Judeo-Christian, you know, system of beliefs. So I think ideally if you have someone that has a more modernized you know religious viewpoint like they're Christian or even if they're Muslim that would be better than having like an ancient religious view.
>> Um so that is not to say I think it's better necessarily for them to be Christian than to be >> to be an atheist. I think that depends.
>> What are you talking about? I think it what are you talking about?
>> Yeah.
>> So, Anderson, here's here's here's the issue that um that I have right when it comes to this entire modern version. The reason why I disagree with that heavily is because number one, Africa was interrupted. You know what I mean? Africa was interrupted. So, when it comes to it wasn't just African um societies that were interrupted, but their religious um their spiritual views were all interrupted. We don't know if they could have had a renaissance because we just because of according to its time you know slavery colonialism happened right but even before that when anthropologists try to reconstruct you know um the ethical frameworks of what uh these ancient traditions had over in Africa they had communalism they had um complex forms of ethics they had complex forms of spirituality a lot of them had um versions that were more metaphorical than they were literal meaning that voodoo If it if if it was never interrupted as inspired to today, it would probably look more like Buddhism where there is no central god where things are just more about meditation and community etc. You see what I'm saying? But the thing is we won't know that because of again the interruption and it still won't happen now because we're still people in Africa and the Caribbean are so stuck on being Christian or Muslim that we can't develop our our own ancient traditions.
You see what I'm saying? So, I wouldn't say and and not only that, I wouldn't well I would that that's where I would end. I wouldn't say it's better for someone to be Christian because quote quote unquote it's more modern. I would say that we just need to develop our um our ethics because a lot of things within Christianity, especially the way that it works in the West, all it does is perpetuate white supremacy. So, why be in it?
>> Yeah. I So, I don't know um much about the ancient religion. So that's there is going to be a lot of simply I just I I don't know maybe that's true but based off my understanding it the the core of it is they're just more primitive. Now >> what does that mean though? You know what I'm saying? Because um >> primitive as in the >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
>> What you get in a lot of religions >> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I think Bar had a question for you. Go ahead Bar.
>> All All religions are primitive.
>> Every every religion is primitive. Every last >> I can't hear them. I don't know. They're all >> Hold on. Give me a Give me a second. You said you can't hear him, Anderson?
>> Yeah, >> he can't hear the Tik Tok.
>> On my end, it looks like he's on mute.
>> Okay, give me a second. Give me a second. Uh, give me a second, y'all. You should.
>> Yeah, you got to make it to where he can hear the uh the Tik Tok.
>> Yeah, I'm doing that right now.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. Give me Give me one second, guys. Sorry about that.
Cool. All right. Go ahead and speak in speak into it again, Bar.
>> Yeah. Can you hear me now?
>> Yeah.
>> There we go.
So all all of these religions are primitive. All of these gods are antiques. They're old. The the when when you when you're talking about modernity, you're literally talking about um advancements advancements in science, medicine, technology that black people have contributed to. like Christianity is Christianity does not get to monopolize on uh civilization moving forward and becoming more modern. That's not a Christian thing. They for the longest time they wanted to unalive scientists. They were unaliving scientists. They were holding they were trying to hold us back. The clergy didn't for the longest time in Europe.
They didn't even want the regular man to read this literature. And now now we got a black dude talking about they they are more they're modern. No, >> they had no choice but to get No, hold on. They had Christianity had no choice but to get with the times because they had to they literally had to upgrade their theology to fit the times. They're outdated. All religions, all gods are made up. I'm not arguing for us to practice anyone's spirituality because spirituality is is it it's exclusive and it is um isolated and it is um uh uh uh tribe based group based culture based uh ethnicity based. I'm not I'm an atheist.
Why would I ad I I tell black people to learn about African uh cultures and belief systems because they were demonized by the Christians. That's why I tell people to learn about them. But I'm not saying believe in the orisha.
No, I'm just simply saying learn about the orisha so you can know in your mind that we were not demons and we were not demon worshippers and there's nothing demonic about what we had going on prior to colonialism. That's what I tell people. But >> yeah, >> I don't I don't even understand your argument because it don't make sense.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, no. I know that. Let me Yeah. Let me just clarify my point there. Um when I'm talking about like the modernization of religion, um yeah, I agree totally. Uh you know, Christianity kind of, you know, became modernized, you know, you know, being dragged just kind of, you know, yelling and screaming by, uh, you know, like the, you know, science.
>> Colonization is how Christianity got modern. colonization.
>> Well, right. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't from religion. I'm more talking about when you so like when you look at uh like modern day Christianity, so whatever just like 1500s or you know whatever um a lot of things were removed because of the just the way that the New Testament is, you know, written. So things like um sacrificing like like like a belief system where you need to act in a way to appease or give something to the gods so they can give you something back which uh creates some sort of you know some sort of sacrifice that that that belief system is kind of uh baked into many I I'm I'm not certain if it's all but most very old religions. They have some type of belief system of you know sacrifice. They also have some sort of belief system where um a lot of things like you know animals pretty much non-living things get human qualities and have uh beliefs and have you know interest. So the wolf wants to do this because it spirit wants to do that. It has its wants and its needs. A lot of these old you know ancient religions have that what you get and you do get something that's slightly unique excluding Buddhism and Hinduism in some ways but not totally but really Christianity especially the New Testament it does have a like a like it's it's more it's more like it's like a jump there was a jump when it comes to like the creativity in creating this belief system and it doesn't have some of the ancient uh you know remnants that many older uh belief systems do. That's when I >> have you read the New Testament?
>> Sorry it again. Say it again.
>> Have you read the New Testament?
>> It's talking about a man walking on water, turning water into wine, earthquakes where [ __ ] people come out the great talking about that there's not miracles. I didn't say that there's not miracles. This is this is a the guy the main character in the New Testament is talking about the [ __ ] world is about to end. That's that's modern to you.
>> What are you talking about, brother?
>> I'm not saying that.
>> Listen to this. Hold up. Just just wait for a minute. All modern all modern all modern versions of Christianity, all Protestant denominations of Christianity advocated for, profited from, and were in favor of the enslavement and oppression of black people. Every last one of them. Why? Why do you want black people to practice religions that justif that that that were used to justify what has happened to us? Are you against white supremacy?
>> Yes or no?
>> So So >> are you against white supremacy? No.
This this conversation ain't even that difficult. Are you against white supremacy or not?
>> Before me, yes, 100% I'm against >> Okay. Are you against the oppression of black people?
>> Yes, 100%. Are you against the lynchings, the church bombings, all of the things that they've done to us, the clan? Are you against all of that?
>> This is this is a if you're against all of that, this is no-brainer. You should be against Christianity then because Christianity is the driving force for every crime that has been committed against black people in this country ever since our contact with white people during the 15th century. This has been their this has been their justification for everything they did.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me let me just tangent because I I because I kind of want to do strike a chord here. Um there's a certain type of emotional uh disposition that you're having that I think a lot of the religious people that you know Volshi speaks to you're taking that side and the reason you're taking >> let's slow down for a minute. Let's let's slow down for a minute. Let's slow down for a minute. No, just hold on for a minute. Just slow down for a minute.
Every I'm not in my feelings. Just hold on. Just just give me a second because these are not feelings. In the in the 15th >> in the 15th century, hold no. In the 15th century, >> who pushed the button on the transatlantic slave trade? What group of people?
What group of people did that? Anderson.
>> Uh, I mean the West, >> white European, white European Christians. This is not my feelings.
This ain't my op. I have no opinion on history. In the year 1453, in the year 1452, I'm sorry, white people, white European Christians came out with the doomvers. My feelings is not involved in what I just told you.
What I just said to you is an undeniable fact. The doom versus comes out in 1452.
That's not my feelings. the clan, the lynchings, the bombings, the the the red lining, the Jim Crow, the segregation, >> those are all facts.
>> All of all of that that comes from white European Christians. You you talking about feelings? I have not gave you a feeling at all.
>> But those you're you're right that those things were horrible. And they did come from I mean they came >> from who? No, no, no. From who? From who?
>> From who?
>> They won't even answer the question.
Like what are we talking about?
>> You don't even You don't even have the nut to say who it came from, but you want to advocate for the religion. What the [ __ ] are we talking about?
>> I'm not That's okay. One, they came from Europeans. Correct. I'm not advocating for >> European Christians using the Bible as justification.
>> European Christians. Hands down. Hands down. Hands down.
>> Yeah. But the story But the story is more nuanced than that because because on the flip side, you could say that also European Christians use the Bible and also science and also this improved moral system.
>> Listen to him. Watch this.
>> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. You see, you see what he about to do? He's about to argue for he's about I got it. Mute him.
Mute him for a minute. Let me explain to you what he's doing. I already got it.
Basically, what he's saying is we you know what I'm saying? Christianity ain't that bad in a modern sense because white European Christians use the Bible for abolition and aquakers and all that [ __ ] He's basically saying the Christians freed us so Christianity ain't that bad. Black people have black people have gathered at the church to unite so it ain't that bad. You don't understand what's happening here sir.
You've you've you've done what's called putting the cart before the horse.
>> Can Can I >> You want to start in 2026. Look at all these black people that's Christian.
Look at them. They doing >> I just want to u um add add something. I just want to add something. Um Anderson like Yeah. Yeah. So So when you're saying that there's a flip side of this where white European white European >> Christian is he a Christian? Is he a Christian?
>> He's not. He's not. That's >> sad. Even the [ __ ] that don't watch white supremacy real [ __ ] >> This is what I wanted to say, Addison. I think I brought this up last time. you want to like you're bringing up like the flip side where white European Christians also use uh religion and science uh to for you know more ethical frameworks uh for education etc etc. The thing is, like I said before, Africa was interrupted. We already had moral frameworks. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure what's let me let me find that letter. It was a letter that King Leopold uh wrote to the missionaries in Belgium. He said that the only reason to turn the black people Christian is to uplift European markets and to make poverty noble because the Congolese already have a moral system. They already know stealing from your neighbor is wrong. They already know um murdering your neighbor is wrong. We had a moral system already and the Europeans knew it. The only reason they were trying to spread it into Africa was to uplift was to uplift.
>> You see what he's doing?
>> You see, do you see what he's doing?
This [ __ ] is talking about human sacrifices. ity. He's able to point out >> he's able to point out he's able to point out things about African spirituality that he feels are you know not as you know are not as you know in a modern sense we we would look at those as not things that are more >> he's able to do that with African culture and spirituality but but ignores is oblivious to Christianity and how it has progressed through history all the way up to now.
>> All right, I I can answer the question.
Yeah, I can answer the question.
>> [ __ ] the whole the whole religion is based on a human sacrifice.
>> What the [ __ ] are you talking about?
>> I was trying to break up.
>> This nigga's a joke.
>> That's what I was trying to bring up.
So, Addison, >> it's a joke.
>> So, Addison, I get I get what you're saying, right? Like there was human sacrifice things happen.
>> Anderson, give me give me a second. Give me a second. I know that there were human sacrifice things happening in Africa, right? We all know that all across the world there are human sacrifice. Asia had human sacrifice, right? But Christianity is not the one that stopped it because Christianity is literally based on the sacrifice. You see what I'm saying?
>> No. No. But the core thing, the core thing about the New Testament though, the New Testament shifted and this is why so like if you put on your just like straight up intellectual hat and you just look at Christianity from a why is this religion so so mass across the globe? What am I >> colonialism?
Colonialism.
That's the only reason. That's the only reason, sir.
>> True.
>> There there's something about the the the the way that it kind of goes into most humans cognitive architecture and it kind of latches on why so so many people are linked to it and the the meme of that that that you know Christian belief system >> has just kind of uh so many people think.
>> Let me ask you a question. And hold on.
>> Let me hold on. Let me >> let me ask you a question. Let me just ask you a question. No, I got you. Let me just ask you this question. If European colonialism didn't happen the way that it did, >> do you think Christianity will still be the dominant religion on the planet?
>> No.
>> Right. So, >> what the [ __ ] are we talking about?
>> So, I I So, when you when you say that it it it latches on to your cognitive thing, >> not really, bro. It would the only reason why it's so why it's so prevalent is because of colonialism. That's really the only reason.
>> So, okay. So that is no doubt like you like you need to conquer people for them to have the belief system. Totally. But there there's something that is very unique about Christianity in that one it identifies um I mean even people from uh uh like white Europeans that were atheist that were not religious at all you know could identify the depthness of Christianity because one it talks about how human life is just hard and difficult. So one people already just like link with that. How does it you know pass that message on because it says oh humans are like baked in sin and and like you're the reason your life is hard is because of sin. That framework is very powerful because most people realize that their life is very difficult. That's one. So it it starts off by saying that your life is already difficult. That's that's a that's a deep way to communicate a message like in a story to someone. That's one. two, it communicates, it does have the, you know, sacrifice part, but it does it in a much deeper way. It's a huge metaphor.
You have Jesus being the core sacrifice.
And because of his sacrifice, now we don't have to actually do sacrifices anymore. That's a jump. That's a jump.
That's literally like a a a colossal jump that no that most other religions just never did. Now given time could they make that type of jump? Yes. But they but but most of them did not have that type of jump. Which means when you have just modern day or just the New Testament, you're not going to have sacrifice or actual like human sacrifice or even animal sacrifice because of the the advancement of of of the New Testament. That's very unique. Here's the problem. very unique.
>> Here's a problem.
Can I Can I point out one thing? I got you. I got you. I'm just hold I'm going let you go, but I want to point out something. Anderson, you do realize that Eastern religions didn't have human sacrifice, correct?
>> Right. So that's why So that's why I said earlier, >> hold on. Give me a second. Give me a second. I got you. So hold on, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, wait, hold on.
>> Hinduism.
>> Wait, hold on, hold on. Yeah. So Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Daoism, Confucianism, they didn't have human sacrifice. They didn't require any of this.
>> I just I just said that. Hold on. Hold on. I literally did I not say like >> Right. I I got you. I I got you. I got you. I got you. I got I got you. But the the thing is when you say that Christianity is unique and it made this leap, >> it's not very it's not very unique because there were religions out there that didn't even need human sacrifice.
All this did was take us something that was happening in their in their general area and said, "Oh yeah, let's not do it anymore." when you see these millions of people across the across the land never had it say. So I'm I'm not sure we're regretting Christianity.
>> I agree. I agree. And I and and I think there's there's I mean there's literally tens and thousands of there's there's a lot of you know religions and I'm trying to carve out a space for just um non east religions and just focus on those because the east religions are the deepest ones. So Buddhism is way deeper than New Testament Christianity. So is Hinduism. Those those religions are just way deeper. And we can get into that if you want, but I but I do think it's worth just kind of holding off on those. But I do think that my critiques like like you guys, you're able to make very nuanced and valid critiques when you're talking about um when you're talking about uh religion generally, when you talk about faith and you talk about um science. But for some reason, and I mean I know the reason, when you're making critiques about the ancient, so like the black religions in the past, your brain kind of goes offline. Similar to when people start they they they start making all this sense and then the second you start talking about Jesus Christ, their brain just goes offline. Why? Because it's so central to them. It's something in their core. that core goes, I can critique anything and I'm ready to critique whatever, but once you start talking about Jesus, my brain just kind of shuts off. You guys do the same thing once you start talking about black people in black history. You kind of um you like >> like that entire framework, you put too high on a pedestal and >> we're literally atheists.
>> We're atheists.
>> But yeah, what the [ __ ] are you talking about?
Wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
>> I literally Everybody pause. Everybody, hold on.
Everybody pause. Hold on. Everybody pause. I'm I'm Cuz I really don't understand what you're trying to say here, Anderson. What do you mean the um the the critique of of black history that we have of Christianity? Because Christianity is a mythology, right?
Black history is not. So, what critique that we have to make about black history or black culture that I mean, we can we can sit here and talk about internal issues within our community. I think we all agree that in our community we do have internal issues like uh misogyny within our community is a big issue right um hypersexualization it's a it's an issue in our community right uh aesthetics basically I always tell I me and my wife talk about this all the time black people are we are really worried about respectability politics and um image right that's a big thing for us in the community and it's all across um the diaspora not just black people in America but over in Haiti and Jamaica and Africa immage age is a big thing, right? And it it causes a problem for for us. You know what I'm saying? So, like we can talk about internal things within the community. So, but this is not one of those one of those lives.
We're not talking about internal issues within our community. We're talking about should black people be part of this mythology that was given to us by foreigners. That's what we're we're talking about. And you're saying that we should because it gave us some sort of ethical framework that we literally already had. So, I'm not I'm I'm really confused on why we should still hold it up as some sort of value. It's not valuable to us anymore.
>> Yeah. I I think that So, I think Okay, to be clear, and this is what again my point is just nuanced. Should should most people have a a world view that it's based off science and being rational and be a 21st, you know, century human, that is to say, live a more, you know, secular life. I think so. Except if you live a life where you're going through a lot of hardship, you you are living like in a you know famine, disease, um like you just have a very difficult life, then for those people, I don't think it makes as much sense to remove religion from those people's lives. For instance, people currently right now that live in Haiti or that live in parts of the world that are that have there's a lot of violence, there's a lot of confusion. Uh there's no type of infrastructure.
>> Those people I think that they should be religious, especially those >> they should they should practice the religion that caused it is what you're saying. Serious. And now now now when it comes to what religion should they should they practice, my view is they should practice the religion that is that is that has done jumps in in its moral framings.
>> [ __ ] the thing that's the thing Anderson because it's a better because it's a more it's not we already have more frameworks in in ancient African religions, bro. We already had that.
Hold on. Simply I mean just look at evolution, right? Look at like uh why why are you know basketball players or even even just I mean I mean just nature. Why are >> Anderson I'm I'm sorry to cut you off Anderson. I'm sorry to cut you off but I No I I gave you at least 25 minutes. We we got we got we got >> finish on this. It's a key point and it's going to take about 60 seconds.
Simply look at evolution the things that come after. All right, we're gonna go ahead and move on to uh the Pharaoh. Um I appreciate >> is terrible. Like what the >> I appreciate your >> we you you want black people to practice the religion that caused the [ __ ] that they're going through now >> like that. He don't what he's saying does not make sense because he's he's advocating for the religion that caused all of the problems that they're having in on the continent of Africa.
Islam and Christianity is the root of all of the global causes that all of the problems that [ __ ] facing right now.
Islam, Christianity, Judaism. Yep, I said it. Jews, Christians, Muslims, >> of course.
>> Literally, what the [ __ ] is we talking about? But but practice the religion of the [ __ ] that did all this [ __ ] You out your rabbit ass m.
And he ain't even a Christian.
>> He's not even a Christian. That's that's that's that was the craziest part about it. All right, guys. Once again, uh, hold, hold on, Frell, give me one second, Pharaoh. All right, guys. Once again, I appreciate you all being up.
The link to join is still in the description or in the comments. You guys can come up uh anytime that you like.
Once again, shout out to everybody who was watching. Shout out to you if you're watching me over on the Black Atheist Coalition. Thank y'all so much for being here. You guys can join in on on the conversation by clicking the link. Shout out to you if you're watching me from the Deconstruction Junction. Once again, thank y'all over on Deconstruction Junction for uh calling on for being here. The link is in the description. if you would like to join in. No preaching, please. Over on the Vuly Thoughts channel, like I told y'all, no preaching. All right, the mods is very, very quick. They got they got a quick trigger finger. If they see you preaching, they will go ahead and time you out. All right, so if you're do not complain in my comments, don't [ __ ] and moan because if you just do that, I'm just going to go ahead and time you out and you're going to come back another day. All right, so uh who who's who told me to stop saying the n word? [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] Don't don't you don't you don't you don't get to tell us what to say on our in our on our live. The [ __ ] All right, guys. Um we're going to go ahead and move on to the Pharaoh. Uh the Pharaoh, how's it going? Are you at least 18, Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew, Israelite? And are you a black person?
>> Uh yeah, I'm black. I'm definitely over 18 and I'm neither Abrahamic religion.
>> Oh, okay. Cool. So, you're on our side then. What What did you want to talk about? I'm not uh yeah, I'm not exactly an atheist either. I'm not an atheist at all. Um I definitely believe in the spiritual system in a foundation.
>> Let's make our ancestors.
>> I got you. Let's uh let's let's make this clear. Well, you said you're not in the Abrahamic religions, right?
>> That's correct.
>> Okay. So, you follow like an African traditional religion then?
>> Yeah, the pharaoh.
>> Okay. Yeah, we don't wait. I ain't got to be for that. You you could follow that if you want. You Egyptian.
>> Ours is made up, too.
>> Ours is made up, too. It's all made up.
>> Yeah, it's all made up.
>> You Osiris, ISIS.
>> I mean, do you you think y'all uh world view is a little bit biased because y'all atheists?
>> No, I it's not. Cuz see, I don't even have a world view when we look at history and we >> That is your world view.
>> Because it's not.
>> That's not That's not a world.
>> If I If I say gods are made up, this is fact. This ain't nobody's worldview.
Even people who believe in a god, you can prime example. Do you think Zeus is real?
>> I believe Zeus copy off one of the ancient comedic deities. Yes, >> [ __ ] Do you think Zeus is real? Yes or no?
>> I said no. No.
>> Is that a world view?
>> No.
>> It It's a fact Zeus is made It's a fact that Zeus is made up. Right.
>> Right. Right. Yeah.
>> That's not anyone's worldview. That's a fact about the observable reality that we can [ __ ] demonstrate. We can demonstrate using what's called religious and cultural anthropology. We can demonstrate that humans make up [ __ ] to explain the universe around them.
This is what this is what we've been doing since the dawn of man. Since the beginning of time, we've been making up [ __ ] to explain all of this.
>> And out of that process, you get deities, you get gods, you get spiritual systems, you get conscious systems. This is where this comes from. I'm simply saying everybody is made up based on history.
>> All right. Who's the first people who made up >> those certain histories?
>> It was animism. Prior to any to all these gods and stuff like that, when we take it all the way back, it was animism.
>> No, >> worshiping rocks and [ __ ] I mean, not not worshiping rocks.
>> Yes. Africa is the cradle of all civilization. Africa, ancient ancient Egypt is the cradle of civilization.
Yes.
>> Okay. If it all comes from there, everything that comes after that is derivative.
>> Yes. And theirs is made up as well. I'm not I'm not I don't demonize.
>> Yeah. It could be made up as far as, you know, us saying that the sun is just called Rah. But we know that that is just um nature. It's just another name for nature. Like the netu if you guys are familiar with the netu >> you know there are different gods they just represent nature >> that's it we don't disagree >> okay okay for sure so >> we're simply saying that >> the creator >> the deities are made uphead everyone's deities are made up that's all I'm saying >> okay so you guys not uh knocking on Kim because you guys >> Why would I knock on black No. Say the last part. What?
>> Why would I knock on Kimid when I black?
Those are ancient African people.
>> Yeah. Yeah. We're black, so we're not we're not knocking on them. We're just saying y >> like I'm trying to tell you. We don't demon I don't demonize African culture or [ __ ] I'm reading about ancient chem. Right. Listen, I got a friend who sent me a book from Africa and it's literally titled >> the untold history of the black race and the fall of African civilization. And in this book, he talks about what you're talking about, the first deity, like the the the the mother cow Haythor and all of the we our deities were like some of the first ones ever worshiped. But I'm still telling you, >> yeah, >> even though it's ancient African culture, >> um they're they're they're deifying their culture.
>> But when I say it's made up, I'm not that's not a negative thing. I'm saying it's ours that we made up. Just like the Chinese people got theirs that they made. Yes. Everyone's is a derivative of the original. Yes, you can only make a you can only make an alphabet in the chair one time. Everything else is a derivative of the original. 100%. But I'm simply just saying that >> we made it up first and then they copied it and made theirs up too.
>> That's all I'm saying. I'm not demonizing it and I'm not saying we shouldn't learn about it.
>> Y'all not you're not atheist then. You can't be an atheist if you believe in that.
>> No. No. Um the Pharaoh that's that's not what an atheist is. An atheist. This is where you give a [ __ ] and take >> an an atheist. Which one? Which one?
>> Nothing to be agnostic about.
>> Pharaoh. Pharaoh. Pharaoh. That's what I'm saying to you.
>> Jesus, man.
>> Being being an atheist simply means that you reject the god belief. I don't believe in a god. That's all an atheist is, bro. Lack of belief.
>> So me saying that me saying that yes, all the other religions around the world are a derivative of ancient African religions does not mean that I now believe those ancient ancient African religions are true. I can respect them.
I can respect them and I don't demonize them at all. Matter of fact, I've always said if people have actually asked me if we're not going to if black people shouldn't be Christian, what should they be? Right. I I always say you don't need to be anything, but if you're going to choose one, at least choose the one that came from us. Yeah. I mean, choose God that look like us.
>> That's what I've always said.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. I agree with that. and and the guy that came on before talking about we should, you know, believe in something uh that's more modern such as Christianity, I don't think that person knows his history and how Christianity even came into Africa. Um you guys seem a little bit knowledgeable. Are you guys aware of how Christianity came into Africa?
>> Uh yeah. Um one one um two ways. One, they went to Ethiopia first because of, you know, just proximity and the other way is colonialism and slavery.
>> Okay. Yeah. The first one you said was definitely on par. Um, you guys ever heard of a Fermentious? He was a Fesian um, you know, king. Well, not a king, but he worked for the king and he went to Axom, which is in modern day Ethiopia around that area, and he converted a king there named King Aanga.
>> Yeah, we know that >> King Aanga was his Okay. All right. So, that's how Christianity came into Africa. So, for people to say that Christianity is a black thing, it's not because the person who came forced the king into Christianity.
>> Yeah. Exactly. It's all politics.
>> So, we're definitely um not Christians at heart. We're not Abrahamics, you know. Um we're not weak. Every time we had a war with them, we won the new dynasty. Uh the 18th uh 18th dynasty, the Hixos, some people call them the Hebrews. They lost that battle. But in the Bible, they talk about it was >> an Exodus. But if you look at the actual history, >> Pharaoh, Pharaoh, Pharaoh, where Pharaoh, Hold on. But where where are we getting to? Because um we we we all already know this history and we and we get it. So where where are we going with this?
>> Oh, well you said you were saying like why your stream says why black people should not be Christians or Muslims. I'm just on par. We talking about Abrahamic religions and stuff.
>> Okay. Yeah. So if if we agree, we um we agree. Then we can we can go ahead and move on to the next one. But but I do appreciate you being up here, Pharaoh.
Like again, we don't we don't demonize um African religions. We don't we don't demonize comedism or anything like that.
Now, I'm not sure if you're Egyptian yourself, but if you are, yeah, I mean, that that that's amazing. You I mean, I wish more um um I think Egyptians should go back to their their ancient uh Egyptian religions. You know what I mean? Like, [ __ ] all this Islam [ __ ] But I appreciate you though, Pharaoh.
All right, >> have a good one.
>> All right, guys. Uh we're going to go ahead and bring up Mikey next. Uh BJ, I do see you in uh I do see you in the um the uh >> Hey, I'm seeing you there, but um something's wrong with your mic. It's not coming through.
>> Hold on, Mike. Hold on, Mike. So BJ, I do see you in the in the in the queue.
All right, you're going to be right next. But something's wrong with the mic. You're not >> Mike, stop. Be on mute.
All right, we're going to go ahead and move on. Uh where did Bar go? I think Bar probably went to the restroom. All right, guys. We're going to go ahead and move on to the next person.
Um, before we do that, y'all, uh, once again, big shout out if you're watching me over on the Black Atheist Coalition.
Y'all, the Black Atheist Coalition, y'all amazing. We almost at 4K views.
That is amazing. Thank y'all so much for um for helping me out there over on the the Vuly Thoughts channel. Once again, thank y'all so much. We're almost at those amount of views as well. And over on Deconstruction Junction, let's go ahead and um pump those numbers up. No, there were no white slaves in America.
Y'all stop with that [ __ ] myth.
White people were not enslaved in America. All right. Um, Irish were indentured servants. Indentured servants. Indentured servants were not slaves according to colonial law. So, stop spreading around that [ __ ] white supremacist myth. Irish people were not slaves in America. All right, guys. I appreciate y'all. We're going to go ahead and and talk to Mike now. Mike, how's it going? Are you at least 18? Um, are uh >> on the the Vol channel? You need to mute up your You need to mute that.
>> Mike, mute that, please.
>> And over on Deconstruction Junction.
>> All right, Mike. You need to mute the stream in your background.
>> Yeah. Stop with that [ __ ] Miss.
>> Hello. We're not in America. All right.
>> Mute the stream in the background.
>> I do not hear you.
>> Can you hear me now?
>> You there, Mike?
>> I do not hear any voices. All right, we're going to go ahead and move on to someone who can hear voices. BJ, how's it going, BJ? Um, >> how am I doing?
>> We're all right. We see that you are a black person. Um, are you a Well, you look 18, so you look over 18. You look about 20 something.
>> Yeah, I'm older now.
>> All right, cool. And, um, Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew Israelite?
>> I'm a Christian.
>> All right, cool. We do not believe that black people should be Christian. Um, it was a religion of our enslavers. it was a religion of our colonizers. We don't believe that uh people should be the the religion of their enslavers and colonizers. And not only that, the way it operates in the west simply perpetuates white supremacy. Uh those are all reasons why you think that we should be >> uh for me honestly what you said honestly is all 100% factual, right? And I think a lot of people a lot of times cuz even I've been through this I guess mentally was a Nation Islam and I came back to Christianity. People say, "Well, it's a white man religion." And I understand what they're saying because yes, in the west it's definitely a white man religion, right? But I tell people I had to decolonize my brain to come back to Christianity because a lot of stuff in America I feel like is Christianity that Christianity in America is Christianity disguise is white supremacy. It's really white supremacy in disguise, right? So before like I'm with you with that, right? You can't my guy look like me. That's 100% true. You know what I'm saying? I feel like the essence of being black, I mean it just science would tell you we were the first ones here, right? Lucy, the slowest ones, and there's probably more old bones over there. There's a reason that we have thicker bone structures, our genetics. You got the tallest and the shortest people in the same continent because everything came from us, the god gene, right? I also believe that we are all little guys because in the Bible says, "Ye are all gods in Psalms 82 and even Jesus quoted it when the Pharisees try to stone him from blasphemy saying he's god." So the reason I say but we should because yes, it was a cause of all the bad stuff. decolonize that negro brain of the house [ __ ] and get back to what real Christianity should be which is the god in yourself and the god that you have root folk. You know what I'm saying? Because also the church be real about it. If we going to demonize we got to be real too. The civil rights movement was headed up mostly by the church in the south right and it's like so yeah I can see the the detriments but also we have to I feel like we also have to see the accomplishments as well if we're going to be fair and uh you know give a balanced >> Yeah. critique on the Christian.
>> I I got you. I'll um I'll answer some of that and then I think Borrow will come in as well. So, when it comes to Let's start let's start with the last thing you said. When it comes to um the civil rights movement, yes, the the church was the head of the civil rights movement.
But I think you also understand that that was that was for a reason. The only places where black people can congregate is, you know, a church without any supervision. That was the only place that we can congregate. And even that was that had to be fought for, right? or they had to let us do that because of Nat Turner and stuff like that. For a long time, a white person had to be there in the black church. That just changed over time, right? Um when they found out when they saw that people were being docile. So when it comes to to um to to that, right, what I would say is that one of the main reasons why the FBI went after the Black Panther so much is because they weren't under a religion.
You know what I'm saying? Because they were a secular people. um being within Christianity being less of a threat uh wasn't present because because they were secular. They didn't have the Christian faith behind them. So they were much more of a threat which is why they went after them so hard. You see what I'm saying? So I get that the church was a place for the civil rights movement, right? That's unknown that's not not doubtable.
>> But what I would I would say is that um number one, you already um already said that the way that we got Christianity uh was through forceful and horrible means.
But the second thing that I would say is even if we were to look past that, can we show this religion to be true? And we really can. You see what I'm saying?
Now, you said that you went ahead and deconstructed and you found your way back to Christianity. That's all good and well, but under deconstruction, you you do find out that much of the the claims that Christianity makes is either not true, doesn't match up with the data, >> um, or the claims cannot be proven to be true. You see what I'm saying? So whenever someone tells me they deconstructed and still came back to Christianity, I always ask them, "How did you do that?" Knowing that a lot of these things that they claim are either can be proven to be true or are not true at all. Yeah. I mean that that's that's the question that that that I would ask.
But I think Bar wanted to add in on this. Uh Bar >> Yeah. So when you look at the so uh Christianity has been the it's been the white man's religion way longer than we've been practicing it uh or or longer than you know like the civil rights movement started in the 1950s I think and >> right after >> Yeah. But see you you got to you see when we when we do the history because there's a video I'm responding to in the the the Christian did the exact same thing. When we having a conversation about Christianity and black people, y'all always start in like this random year. You have to start you you're putting the car before the horse. You got to go all the way back. You go all the way back to um the 4th century. You look at what happened what was happening to the black people who was trying who was practicing Christianity. Uh there's a guy named Aryan. Uh uh Aras, his name was Aras, I think. His name was Aras at the Council. Mhm. Right. He said Jesus Christ and the father are disassimilar, not the same. They cast him out.
>> And then and then right after that um uh Ethiopia converted to Christianity to align themselves with Rome. And then right after that, you get the edict of Thessalonica in 391 where they're forcing Christianity on everybody including those black people in North Africa. So if we take if we just be gen if we just be reasonable and say okay >> Christianity came from uh a Jewish messianic movement and then the Roman Empire adopted it. Okay. If we go with that, if we if we start from 3:25 and we work our way forward throughout, if we if we start at 3:25 and work forward, we literally see white people forcing Christianity on black people since the 4th century all the way up until uh where basically >> we started.
>> Yeah. Well, well, it's on autopilot now.
We do it ourselves today. But Christianity has literally been forced on us since it's been in in a in a position of power. It's been forced on us the entire time.
>> I got my argument against that I guess.
I'm sorry. Would you finish math? I didn't mean to cut you off.
>> I'm I'm I'm done. Go ahead.
>> I was going to say my argument against that would obviously be the Ethiopia argument, right? Saying that they became Christian to line the Rome. And I would say that's not true. And the reason I say this is not true because we look at the early church history. The and I say the church history, I hate saying the church history cuz that automatically equates it with Rome like as the center of Christianity which it wasn't because Ethiopia was before uh Rome became Christian cuz after the slaughter where you get the message of the fish and stuff, Ethiopia already had it. That's why their books have 88 books and it's not the 72 or 73 that the Catholics have in the Eastern Orthodox churches or not even the 66 that the Protestant has. So, blacks have always and even if you go all the way back, there's Ethiopians in the Bible before it talked about a white man. And most of the white men during that time was still in caves. They haven't even they haven't even learned how to really bathe themselves, walk upright or anything like that, cuz that didn't come until the Moors really civilized them. Now, you can say the Greeks, if you want to call them white or whatever. You know what I'm saying?
And also, the reason I believe it as well is because the first people on the earth, right, Adam and Eve, rich Adam, the Adam, just means mankind, right?
Because a lot of that stuff is poetic.
He would say, "Well, a lot of that stuff can't be proven to happen." If you look at the language that is written in this poetic also, also if there was an Adam and Eve, it had to be black. So, everything came from the essence of black. Every religion has to come from black. There's nothing on this earth that white people had before black people had except for gunpowder. You know what I'm saying?
>> I mean, here here's what I would say.
Um, Adam and Eve never existed. You know what I mean? So, they they they never I mean, yeah, sure. all all religions are are derivative from what the Africans had before they left um before they left uh Africa, right? So we we we can say that but uh at the end of the day um what I what I'll also say is that >> um it goes back to what can we show to be true, right? And what we can show to u um um to to be true is the negative effects that Christianity h has had of us, right? We cannot show Adam and Eve to to have existed. uh we can't show literally anything else that this Bible claims. So why be part of something that not only that is foreign to us, came from somewhere else, they made it up in their lands and they and they came to Africa with it and not only that the way that it perpetuates itself in our in our society and and the fact that we cannot even show it to be true. Why be part of it? Like this I I don't see any reason to to be a Christian at that point. And I feel that and I like I say you're atheist so I you know obviously don't believe any religion can be shown to be true right which is not a problem with me what I'm saying I guess is the essence of the church and the foundation of the church not to go back to the civil rights movement but the start of the civil rights move we can go any back to farther even like John Brown the white man killed how many and negroes are scared even join him and fight for their own freedom you had N turner like you just said so the church has always been I guess a revolutionary place >> and that's what I'm saying the reason that it also helped >> like you were saying the Black Panthers.
The Black Panthers were founded in the church in Oakland. That's why in the Black Panther movie at the end scene where the kids are playing basketball, that church behind it is actually where the Black Panthers form where Bobby Seal and Hugh would meet. And my thing about it is like I say the I understand why you would say I shouldn't be Christian.
>> I guess my argument is more for the history and the importance of the church and what it's done the black church has done for us in America. Cuz like you said, without the black church, where were we meeting at? What were we doing?
Well, you know what I'm saying? But I do believe like like you said, there's a lot of churches still out here perpetuating uh white supremacy disguised as Christianity. That's why you got Trump selling Bibles and Negro and buying it at every twist and turn.
What I'm saying is, bro, I feel like a real Christianity >> would worship black. You know what I'm saying?
>> Okay, hold wait. Hold up. Wait. Let's cuz cuz there's a lot you're saying a lot and you need to be you need to be helped a little bit on some some of the stuff you're saying. So >> Ethiopia Ethiopia was >> Ethiopia was You good? You're good.
>> Let me turn my mic off cuz it's echoing.
>> Ethiopia Ethiopia was not Christian prior to the 4th century. And we know this because you can look they have images of their coinage uh all the way up until the 4th century.
And when you look at the coinage in the 4th century in the middle in like the 3:30, this is where their coins go from bearing the sundisk to bearing the cross and it lines up with the timeline of when St. Fermentius uh uh brought Christianity to King Eza's father and then he became uh basically a tutor of King Ezna and indoctrinated the king that the the king that converted his kingdom to Christianity. his tutor growing up was a a a Christian named Ferment uh uh I think he was uh I can't remember his race but he he was not black he was not African but his tutor was a Christian growing up and when he became king he converted uh the kingdom of Axom to Christianity for political reasons for uh militaristic reasons because at that time in the 4th century the Roman Empire controlled the infrastructure the trade trade routes, the trade routes, the um roads, the money they they cuz because during the Hellenistic period is where the Greeks and then the Romans basically colonized all of the Middle East, all of um you know that region on the map was colonized by the Greeks and then the the Romans coming in. So when the Romans come in and they take over after the Greek, they're si they've simply inherited all of this territory, all of these providences that the Greek colonized under Alexander the Greek. Um when when Christianity gets ro when Christianity gets rolling and um con when you look at Constantine and Ucius, you know about the council of Nia and 3:25, but you also have to look up um who is the father of church history and he wrote he wrote um his his works is called ecclesiastical you know he he wrote ecclesiastical histories. It was either right before the council of Nasia or right after he uh he came up with a lot of the things that they are using as church tradition come from him when you look them up he come from it comes from him and so this was prior to Ethiopia's conversion in the uh 330s or whatever because that is when king was king that is when their coinage start to change and he uh Christianity spread in Ethiopia is called the top down model where the king and his court converts converts first and then they uh uh I want to say I want to say impose they basically impose it on their kingdom and because the Ethiopians or the king of Axom they follow their king whatever he worship they worship whatever he believed they believe the same way the Roman Empire was whatever Constantine believed in you [ __ ] going to follow suit too the same thing in Ethiopia and so at that time uh Ethiopia uh they were they wanted to play ball with the big boys Roman Empire was was the big boys at that time that is when they converted to Christianity not before that what that the the the Ethiopian unic in the book of acts the book of acts is not it's not a historical account it's it's the new testament it's filled to the brim with pseudopigrapher pseudo it's pseudonymous it's pseudopigrapher it's it's it's mythological storytelling written third person omnition. This is the telltale sign of some [ __ ] people are making up after the fact, right? And so when we look at black people and their conversion to Christianity, the Ethiopian Bible, the Ethiopians is not they're not older than Roman, they're not older than Christianity in Europe.
They're not older than Christianity in Rome. The according to the church tradition, the Bible was the New Testament was written in Greek.
Ethiopians wrote and spoke gaes, not Greek. That means that the Ethiopian Bible would have been it. It it it just makes log logical sense that it would have had to have been translated into their language for them. If you look up what's called the Germa Gospels, this is your first rendition of an Ethiopian New Testament. But this but when you look up the dating on the geruma gospels it's between the fifth and the seventh centuries long after Roman conversion long after New Testament was written long after um the the first three New Testament or the the first three complete uh renditions of the the Bible the complete Bible with the Greek Septuagent and the New Testament they're called uh cod codes or codexes it's the codex cinaticus the codex vatus Canis and the Codex Alexis. These are three Greek translations of the New Testament with the Old Testament put together that predate an Ethiopian Bible. There's no way that their conversion predates Rome.
There's no way that their Bible is the first Bible. They uh they have the the book that the books that they have in are simply the books that the church took out, but they don't have the original. No, they they you can't have the original if you got it from someone else. That's just not how that works. So, and then also if you look up what's called cuz everybody know about the council of Naria, but they nobody talk about the council of Chadon where the where the [ __ ] really hit the fan. When you look at the council of Chalsedon where the Roman Empire in Constantinople, they switched from or they didn't switch but they decreed that uh it's called diaphosetic Christologology. They con they switched from um um well I don't want to say they switched from I'm basically just going to say that they had a council meeting because there were still arguments over the nature of Jesus right the argument didn't end at the council of Nia they kept they kept arguing and arguing for 900 years >> and one of the councils that they had was the council of Cheddon where they said >> today >> yeah this after the close of the council of Cheddadon everybody outside of Constantinople rejected the council Cheddan, Armenia, Syria, Ethiopia, and Egypt all they didn't agree with the council of Chastadon. They and and guess what happened? Rome Rome ostracized and alienated all they ass because if you didn't agree with Cha the Chowedonian Christianity, you wasn't going we wasn't going to [ __ ] with you. So if we look at the third century or I'm sorry, if we look at the fourth century where Ethiopia converts to a line with Rome, not even a century, not not even a 200 years later, they get sidelined by that same empire that they converted to a line with at after the council of Chopsan. This is not uh uh if you look up what's called the seat of Christianity is if you look it up right now, it's going to tell you that the seat of Christianity is in the Vatican.
prior to it being in the Vatican, it was in it was in it was in the city of Constantinople.
>> And so when we look at the seed of Christianity >> since since it's been a thing, it has always been in uh controlled by Europeans in Europe, some form of the Roman Empire or an extension of it has always controlled the seat of Christianity. It has never been controlled by black people. We've never we've never had a a say so on a on a council. We we we're not the we're not the head negroes in charge when it come to to the church. Never have been. All these new denominations that y'all see out here, these are >> Protestant that comes after the colonization and during the colonialism.
These are not like you you you brought up the civil rights movement. Who were the who are we fighting against? We gathering at a church that they forced us in fighting against Christians. We weren't just fighting against white people. We was fighting against other Christians who done forced this on our ancestors. That's why I say y'all put the car before the horse when y'all bring up the civil rights movement because yes, we organized at the church.
Nine times out of 10, a pastor was leading the way. Shout out MLK. Nine times out of 10, you know, we were we were we were moving and shaking in those places in the buildings where we were we could go unsupervised by white people.
But y'all leave out why why did we have to do this and who are we fighting and and it was Christians that were fighting European white Christians that forced is on our people. So no we shouldn't be Christian even despite the civil rights movement we still shouldn't be Christian uh or BJ I feel like I say the opinion is valid in the history as you can see or as you just quoted super valid. I'm I guess I'm making more the argument of number one, I'm a Christian, and number two, the church has always been influential in helping um blacks get where we needed to. Whether it was the deacons of defense, whether it was firearms and everything, it's always been the church.
And that's what I'm trying to just say, you know what I'm saying? That the church still had >> So BJ, we understand all that, right? We we we get that the church has been there. But uh the thing is that what bar is pointing out >> is that it had to be that because that's what they that's a condition that we're put into. We don't need the church to do any of this because the deacons in the fence were one thing but so were the Panthers and they didn't do that in church. You know what I'm saying? Like the the I think Huey was an atheist as a matter of fact. So like >> you Yeah. So we it's like the church is not necessary for us to come together as a as a people and and and in in my opinion um I'm more of a of a socially leftist person. I think that the church actually promotes a lot of things that are are damaging to to us such as things like misogyny and patriarchy. You know what I'm saying? So it pushes a lot of that which is what I and I just I just don't agree with it. At least the patriarchy that white people taught us.
You I mean because Africa have a completely different version of Africa had a completely different version of patriarchy. You know what I'm saying? So it's is it's the way that it was taught to us.
>> That's what um the the churches pushes a lot now. Now now can it get reformed?
Sure it can get reformed but then it comes back to the same question. Can we actually show this to be true? And should we actually follow something that came from foreign people that had nothing to do with us? You know what I'm saying? Those were the the questions that I would ask. I've always said this as well. If Christianity was allowed to spread into Africa, that wasn't through violence, that wasn't through slavery and colonialism, it wouldn't look like the Christianity we see in America. It won't like the Christianity that we see in Africa right now. It will look like the Christianity we actually see in Jamaica, which is revivalism. That's how it will look like. It will like revivalism. It will look like Rosafarianism. Or, a lot of people hate me when I say this, it will probably look like voodoo. You know what I'm saying? It will probably look like a lot. They've >> always been connected.
>> Yes, sir. They all been connected. It will probably look a lot like Haitian partners here. We do hoodoo, right? As work in practice. I see what you're saying, brother. And I will say I appreciate both of you brothers having me on. My phone's about to die. So, I don't trying to cut it short, but it's about to die. Y'all have a great rest of your day, bro. I appreciate we can have a discussion, not have to, you know what I'm saying? Get crazy with each other.
We can be uh and I did learn some things today, too. Uh thank both of you brothers, man. Y'all keep doing what y'all doing. Hopefully another streamer might come back on, bro.
>> Hey, not a problem. Hey, we appreciate you, BJ. Come back anytime.
>> All right, man. You have a good one. You too.
>> All right, y'all. W guest, y'all. Hey, you see as we were able to have with BJ a normal regular conversation.
All right. And and and he's a Christian.
I've had Christians up here before where we've had normal regular conversations that wasn't contentious. Wasn't a whole back and forth. So, when people talk about how we're rude or how we're stupid or all other stuff, as you can see, we had a normal 20-minute conversation with another Christian, and it could all be all be good and well, you know what I mean? But until we get somebody else up, I'm going to I'm going to try to because there's people in my comments um bar that are telling that they can't come up for some reason, I'm going to try to teach them how to get here.
>> Until that happens, go ahead and promote your album, promote everything that you got going on, bro. Go ahead and do that.
Let me talk to these folks real quick.
>> Yeah. So, if y'all, you know, if y'all been following me for a minute or you just now tuning in, if you look at my profile picture on um Tik Tok, that's that's the album cover. But as of right now, um the album is still um being processed to be released on uh like the streaming services and stuff, but it is on YouTube right now. I have it all in a playlist. Like, if you go to my YouTube channel and you go to playlist, it should be somewhere at the top. Um the album is called Revelations. It's 25 songs. Um, there are no skips, man. Every track is something is something there. Uh, you know, I have some good features on the album. I put a lot of work into it. So, um, you know, it's getting getting good feedback. You know, go over there, check the check the album out. It's called Revelations.
Check it out. Leave a comment. And uh when it gets up on the streaming services, I'll have like a listen party where we going to um basically just you know be on the stream listening to the whole thing and you know like talking about the songs and stuff like that. I'm just trying to wait for uh it should be maybe tomorrow. I don't know what they waiting on but it should be on there tomorrow. So whenever the album gets to the stores then we'll do like a listen party so people can like go and actually listen to it on their wherever they get their music from and stuff like that. So yeah, be on the lookout, man. Um yeah, that's it. But >> as for for right now, if you can, man, just go over there and listen to the whole thing through and leave a comment, leave a like, let me know you rock with it. And you know that that that means that means a lot because I'm reading the comments and if you go and look, I done hearted all the comments and I'm I'm showing you that I'm reading them all.
>> And you know what I'm saying? like uh you know it's a feelood moment when people come in like man this this is one of the craziest songs I ever heard like man you know I'm glad you dropping this we need this that's a good feeling so go over there listen to the album check that out >> and uh the album the album is good y'all it's really really good it's uh it's actually a great album it really um we need more um we need more rap that criticizes um religion that criticizes the systems that that we have today. You know what I mean?
Because we have lots of rap that criticizes political systems. We need we need more rap that criticizes religious systems. That's all we need. You know what I mean? Because I think it's uh it's something that that can reach more people. You know what I mean? Um but it's a great album, y'all. Yeah, definitely go ahead and check it out.
Check out Bar as well um on on on his channel. Uh he had a series of Everything Wrong with the Bible and then Everything Wrong with the Quran. Great series.
>> I'm still I'm I'm I'm I'mma start back posting. I'mma start back posting on those. Uh just just just I I haven't been posting videos because I have been working on the album, but uh now that I'm done with that, uh I I will be posting more videos on YouTube and [ __ ] for sure.
>> Yeah, man. Go ahead.
>> Um me as well, I have a lot of like uh uh I got some people to answer to some reactions and stuff like that. Um I got to put out my entire deconstruction story. Um I'm going to start a series.
>> Yeah, I got to put that out. I'm going to start a series soon on the importance of black skepticism. I'mma definitely start I'm start that one out. Um um you know understanding this the scientific method um from a black perspective etc etc. That I I definitely we definitely need to get into that. We need more black people in the stems. You know what I mean? We need more black people who who think critically. Um you feel I'm saying because when I started seeing you know antivax and Dr. semi [ __ ] That's Listen, man. Listen, man. You're not going to cure AIDS with avocados, y'all.
Look at curing age with avocados, y'all.
Like, that's that's just not happening.
Uh, hold on. Let me just um uh imported baby over on the Deconstruction Junction. Uh once again, the the link is there to join. Um so, if you want to talk, you go ahead and join up. We uh we we out of guests now. We got an empty stage just waiting for the next person to uh to join. And if you want to talk, go ahead and um join up. Hey Bar, have you ever spoke to God Logic?
>> Uh no, I haven't spoke to him, but I know I know who he is because uh >> people uh I've watched some of his videos >> and because I I like to watch Muslims versus Christians and Christians versus Hebrew Israelites and vice versa. I like that that's what I like to watch in my spare time. And so, of course, that's where you go to watch that type of stuff. So, I done seen him and all that stuff, but he I mean, he mainly likes to talk to like Muslims and other believers. I don't think a conversation between me and him is going to last that long cuz I'm just going to go straight to Yahweh being made up from the Levant.
Therefore, Judaism is false. Therefore, Christianity is false. Therefore, Islam is false. Because the religion can't be true if your God is made up mythology.
You can't you can't begin to have we can't talk about feel broke. We can't talk about any of that if you're worshiping a a a god from the southern Levant. We can't do that.
>> And so I think my conversation with like people who are trying to be philosophical, our conversations won't last that long because I want to talk about facts and history. They want to talk about, well, how do you ground all moral? I don't actually [ __ ] care about that.
>> So I don't think it'd be fruitful.
>> Yeah. I mean, he did come to my my live one time. He um he was here. a whole bunch of his fans came in as well, but they came in when I was cussing somebody else out. You feel what I'm saying? And I told and I told him like, and the reason why I did so is because he dehumanized him. You know what I'm saying? So, like, the thing is about me is that I don't have a mind mind of talking to anybody. But the moment you start to get the dehumanization, I'm going to cuss your ass out. I'm going to kick you off the stage. You know what I'm saying? Dude actually said I was worse than Epstein because I wasn't a Christian. You know what I'm saying?
Like, when you when you do [ __ ] like that, then I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not going to [ __ ] with you.
>> See what I'm saying? Yeah. No. Like I think I think if they if if you if if they if we're trying to uh because the only way we can have a conversation with somebody like that is if we're going to uh allow things for the sake of argument. I I don't really do that too well. I don't like doing that.
>> I don't want to allow anything for the sake of conversation. I want you to give me evidence and facts that Yahweh is the God of the universe and then we can go from there. But if you can't do that, what what the [ __ ] are we talking about?
>> Yeah, literally.
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah, exactly. That that's what I'm I'm about as well. Um, let me let me just do this. Over on the Black Atheist Coalition, y'all, I'm not reading all the comments there, y'all. It's it's a it's a lot of y'all there in the in the building right now. So, I'm not going to be reading all the comments. I don't know who asked me a question over there because it's about 7,000 views over on Black Atheist Coalition right now. Big win on the numbers, by the way. Big big win. I appreciate that. But I haven't read all the comments. So, if you want to go ahead and join it on the on the debate, uh, Resist Mad who's in the the comments, he's going to give you the link. Um, but if you can't see the link here on the on the screen, it says tiny.cc/volive is not It's V O L, y'all. LCY. That's not an I. I don't know why I always mistake that for an I. It's an L. VC live. Okay. Go to tiny.ccoly CC/volcy live. That's probably why I getting it wrong for you. I keep typing an I and I don't know why I think it's an I for it's an L. Okay. So, go ahead and and join that and you'll be able to to speak to me more if you would like to join. If not, we're going to just go ahead and close out in the next five minutes. I I guess if we don't get another person within the next few minutes. Um but yeah, so we we appreciate y'all. Hey, um Bar Anderson asking if you can join again.
Who was that?
>> The first [ __ ] we was talking to.
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. You you can join. You can join if I mean.
>> Yeah. Anderson, you can go ahead and come back if you want. You can come back if you want, Anderson. So, all right, y'all. Tiny.ccy live. That's when you're going to go ahead and come in uh to speak to us. And once again, y'all, no preaching. All right. Every single time I look at these these comments, you [ __ ] is preaching.
Like, we're we're we're not about that, man. Like, bro, stop dropping Bible verses. We don't care about the theology. We don't care about none of that [ __ ] We're talking about should black people be Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew, Israelite.
>> And for some reason, Christians, they think that they're actually speaking to you and not realizing that they're preaching. There's a difference between preaching and speaking to us.
And uh imported baby, I'm not I'm not answering any questions. I don't I'm I'm I just see you ask me to answer a question, but I got somebody to talk to, so we'll talk to you later. All right, Anderson, welcome back. Uh what what what else uh we got here? We're going to go ahead and get out of here in a few moments. What what what else you got?
>> [ __ ] change shirts.
>> Change shirts.
>> You're the same person, brother. You just change shirt. The same same person.
>> Why aren't you Why aren't you a Christian right now?
>> Um uh sorry. Can you say that again?
>> Why aren't you a Christian?
>> Because I care about what's true and it's not true. So yeah. Why do you want black people to believe in things that are not true and we don't like you don't you're advocating for something you don't even do and you do you need religion to be a good person?
>> No, I don't think you're doing >> people need religion to be a good person.
>> No, you're asking me a question um that I'm not asking or you're you're like saying that that's the question that I'm asking. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is depending on what your circumstances are in life, you may be in a position where it makes more sense for you to be religious, especially be Christian given the dire circumstances of your life. For instance, people that are living in Haiti that are just trying to make sense of their circumstances, I don't think those people should just stop being religious fully. I think it it's in that circumstance it makes sense. But if you're living in the US or in the west and you're well, you know, pretty well educated, you have resources, uh, you have access to resources and you care about what's true, then I think it makes sense for you to not be religious. The point that I was making earlier was simply some religions are more evolved than others. Now, they're all not true.
They're all false, but some can still be better, some can be worse. I feel like you guys take a position where because the religion is is more um you know kind of like emotionally uh you know meaningful uh to you guys you kind of want to cling to it more.
And my position is I really don't want to cling to something because it makes me feel good. I think it's about doing what is more practical or what um is just more true. So they're all they're all [ __ ] right? Like they're not true. But I think that New Testament Christianity, New Testament Christianity is just more evolved.
It's more evolved for a complex number of reasons, but it's more evolved than old ancient African religion. Therefore, >> when you say it's more evolved, what what is what is that? What does you what does that mean?
>> Like I I don't know what you mean by that. when you say more evolved because >> New Testament Christianity is all about sacrificing uh the son of a of a deity to himself in order to make a loophole for the rules he created. Like I'm not sure how that's more evolved than anything else we have.
>> So like the moral system so like so like the moral system of the New Testament that you know all all you know living you know creatures are you know equal under God something like that. That's what someone like, you know, Martin Luther King used to, you know, advance, you know, black civil rights. And the >> it's based off of a sacrifice. Correct.
But because of that, that's why >> New Testament Christians don't actually perform, you know, child sacrifices.
They don't do those things anymore because that religion is just more evolved.
>> New Testament Christians do not know how to read. They don't read the full Bible because even in the mythology Jesus that's my computer restarting. Even in the mythology Jesus said that he came for the lost sheep of Israel. We are not the lost sheep of Israel.
He ca he he said he came to fulfill the old law about the slavery and the unaling disobedient children and the and the and the women not bleeding on their if they don't bleed on their first night unall alive them. He came he came to fulfill that law.
>> He didn't come to um according to the mythology. He's not something separate from the Old Testament. He is the son of the God that he is in and he's in agreement with everything the God said in the Old Testament. The New Testament is not this. It's not >> I don't know what you think it is, but it's primitive. It's old. It's antique.
It's it's it's for desert dwelling, not for the modern man.
>> It's it's primitive. It's primitive.
It's old and it's antique. But it's but it's less primitive. It's less old and it's less antique than the ancient African religions. That's my point.
>> No, it's not. No, no, it's not because it's literally a syn Christianity is a >> Christianity is literally them. They basically uh it's like a a melting pot of all of the world's uh the the not all of the world but the Middle Eastern and North African religions and spiritual systems.
Christianity is like a melting pot of all of that [ __ ] >> Exactly. It's not that complexity. is not more modern. It's simply combining them all. It's plagiarized from earlier mythology.
>> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. And let me ask you this question. What ethical frameworks exist in Christianity that doesn't exist in ancient African religions?
>> So again, I don't know the full details of the ancient African religions, but I do know one detail. Most most of those religions had some sort of sacrifice built into them. New Testament Christianity, you don't have to. [ __ ] [ __ ] Why are you separating the Old Testament from the New Testament? Why are you doing that?
>> That's one moral advancement because modern day Christians don't follow the Old Testament. They follow the New Testament.
>> That's because they don't know how to read. That's what I was trying to tell you. They're not following the Old Listen to what you're basically follow.
I'm just I'm being practical. That's what they do. You can say maybe they're wrong.
Progressive progressive Christianity progressive Christianity is when a Christian does not follow the complete word of God. That's the only way you can be a progressive Christian where it looks modern to a black agnostics like yourself. They have to they have to cherrypick specific parts of the Bible so that a person like you can look at them say it's a little more modern than all that African spirituality stuff. But they are just as primitive. But remember remember they have to they have to cherrypick the Bible in order to fit today's time. If they if trust me trust and believe if they could have their way they would do what they used to do >> they can't do that no more.
>> Can can can can I just add can I just add one thing right when it comes to the entire thing about about sacrificing right is saying that when it comes to African traditional religions a lot of them require a sacrifice. Some of them do require a sacrifice but um but the the one one of the major ones which is rest west African von it doesn't necessarily require a sacrifice. You can give an offering >> to u um to the ancients or to to your ancestors but you don't have to sacrifice anything. Yeah. I mean so it's one of the things where these things are what I'm saying is that when it comes to this entire moral framework of Christian Hold on I'm sorry me one second. When it comes to this entire framework of Christianity, it gives a more evolved ethic. What that does is that that flattens a lot of the nuance that that exists within African traditional religion because some of them didn't require offerings or sacrifices at all.
You see what I'm saying? So it you we have to um before we say that it it gives you a more advanced framework, we have to actually understand what do they actually say? Because again, some of these traditions were way more metaphorical than they were literal.
Yeah. I mean, so sacrifice, even in in in uh in Christianity right now, they still talk about sacrifice, but in a more metaphorical sense, like you have to sacrifice your flesh. You have to sacrifice the things you want to do with your friends. You have to sacrifice, etc., etc., etc., just like Jesus sacrificed for us. You see what I'm saying? They still talk about it, but it's in more metaphorical sense. The same thing happens with a lot of African traditional religions. It's not a literal sacrifice. It's metaphorical.
>> Right. Right. The core the core thing like the core of of this whole conversation is what do you get from or for picking up and following a you know 25 year old person in you know 2026 following a you know old African religion. What is the value for that person's life practically over picking modern day Christianity? What what makes that that old African religion better except for that's the religion that your ancestors or maybe maybe your ancestors came up with.
>> Um and it therefore it's going to make you feel good about it. If we know it's still complete [ __ ] and it's totally make believe. Why?
>> Because modern day Christianity is rooted in white supremacy.
>> Modern day Christianity is white supremacy. Christian nationalism.
Literally if you prime let me prime example when >> yes it does because we just seen >> because we just seen when they when when when >> when CK was when CK was un alive.
>> What did all the black Christians say?
>> This man this is this is the prime example of what a black person being Christian in today's time. Look >> I can't get it. I'm trying to give you an example. I'm trying to I'm trying to give you an example of what >> Charlie Kirk bro >> I can't we can't say his name on Tik Tok but I'm trying to give you a I'm trying to give you an example of what modern Christianity look like for black people when they unal alive that dude he got popped now mind you he spent his whole career talking bad about black men and children and when he was unal alive by his own by his own what did all the black men and children say I'm Christian before I'm black. They're crying because of their because of Christianity. They are crying over a man being unal alive that has talked bad about them for 10 plus years. It's because they're Christian before they're black. So when a white supremacist or a racist or a Christian nationalist or MAGA Trump pat support [ __ ] when they get on the internet and they say crazy bad [ __ ] about us that's harmful, disrespectful and just not true about us when they get on these internets and say stuff like that. Christianity allows us to uh sympathize and uh uh uh uh band together with identify.
It allows us to identify with them based on Christianity despite their racism and their hatred for our people.
Christianity is how you get that. You got to get us to worship that white man on that cross so that when you as a white man I talking about them. When a white man get on these internet and say stupid [ __ ] it's no harm, no foul because, >> well, he's a Christian, so >> I'm I'm I'm following Jesus. I'm Christian before I'm black. This is 2026 modern Christianity for your ass. [ __ ] putting religion before the group.
That's what you want because this is there is no alternative.
>> So, so this is what I was saying before la last time, right? One of the issues with with modern day Christianity, especially in the west, that it perpetuates white supremacy. And that's not just within the religion, it's within their political beliefs as well.
Just like how um um how Bar was saying when CK got popped, you had a lot of black Christians are now saying that, oh, he was just telling the truth about the black community. And when we bring up that the issues within the black community are things of structural and systemic issues and not because we're we're not Christian. And you get a whole I've even spoken to them before. Even before Charlie Kirkin in this entire thing, even before that happened, I've spoken with black Christians who said that the entire reason Africa is the way that it is, the entire reason why Haiti is the way that it is is because we don't have enough Jesus. And we both know that's not true. Like Haiti has a church on every single block and every single street. We know that, right? Same thing with Jamaica. Same thing with Nigeria. These places are not the way they are because we don't have enough Jesus. But you have multiple amount of black people who saying that well America is good the way that it is.
Europe is good at the way it is. It must be because of Jesus. And they look at Africa which have a has a bunch of Christian bunch of Christians. Look at the Caribbean has a bunch of Christians and they would say, "Oh, it's because they're not Christian enough." Even though that's [ __ ] You see what I mean?
>> Right. But then the argument, right? No.
And I agree with that. But then would the argument for that be that it makes more sense to be secular or not religious than be atheist or uh then to be Christian? I'm not arguing that it's better for someone to be Christian than to be a non-believer. My central argument is it's better to be a Christian than to believe in the ancient African religions. Because given that that fact that you guys said, how does anything change if these people are believing in you know ancient belief systems? How?
>> Because most black Christians believe that >> I can answer too.
>> Yeah. Most black Christians most black Christians today believe that African culture and spirituality is demonic. And they only believe that because of Christianity. We're literally seeing in in real time people demonize who they once were and who they come from because of a religion that is uh self what's the word is it deprec what's the word I'm looking for self-deprecation >> that is that's dangerous in a community that does not >> how does it make no question how does it make their life better not have that belief system I don't I don't see the connection you're right it is self-deprecating to some degree And that that might be that might cause a lot of butt hurt. It might make you feel bad because you're you are overall saying this other religion is better than your religion. And that might make some people upset because you picked someone else over your own. Okay, that's true. I agree. But how does it actually make someone live a life that's that's that's more productive? That's just a overall better life worth living if they take on. So, so Anderson, there's there's a lot of things that that you're not understanding. Being Christian doesn't do that either.
>> That's the thing. Let me answer this question. Being Christian doesn't do that either. Yeah. I mean, the only reason why people are productive is because we live in America. Being Christian doesn't necessarily make you more productive or give you any type of moral framework. Yeah. I mean, you can still um follow Epha, voodoo, a conga, etc., and still be a productive, happy person. Religion doesn't give you that.
It's what it's what your environment does around you that gives you that because there are plenty of people who are hold there are plenty of people who are Christian right now and whose lives are [ __ ] miserable. Christianity doesn't give you anything other than that. What gives you that is your environment, your community, your economic position, your material your material conditions. That's what gives you the um the um um the happiness to strive the drive etc. All right? And your education. All that is what gives you that. You don't need Christianity for that. But your second question is that how would them you know um not being part of Christianity and being part of ancient uh an African religion then um replace all of that right number one I I'll give you uh I'll give you two answers. Number one, it necessarily wouldn't because if even if um all of Africa today were to go back to their ancient um um African religions, do European companies still um gather the resources? Is neocolonialism still a thing? Will all that still be true?
Yeah, it will still be true. It's true in the Christianity. It will be true under an ATR. You see what I'm saying?
So, that would need that. Hold on. That would that would need to change. But the reason why I think that they will most likely change it is because white le Christianity or whitewash Christianity has a psychological effect on us.
Because I was talking to an African um um just earlier on this on this live, the image of Jesus, the image of the God that they worship all across Africa is a white man. All across Africa, the image of Jesus is a white man. Even if you look at in into America, the image of Jesus even in black churches is a blonde hair, blue-eyed white man. That image is false. We all know that it's false. But at the end of the day, your psychology is God is a white man. You see what I'm saying? So what happens when harm is caused onto you? What happens when they lie to you? What happens when there's harm being um being caused by a person that looks like that? you are more likely uh to acquies to their harm or ignore their harm. Why? Because in your mind, that's God. You cannot question him. And we've seen this happen across the African continent where where where a person who's blonde hair and blue-eyed or just not even blonde hair, blue, just a white person who walks in and they treat them with the utmost respect.
Right now in South Africa, there's a huge issue with xenophobia of them attacking and removing and sometimes even killing their own um their own fellow Africans like Nigerians, Mosmbian, Somalians, etc. They would attack and almost kill these people just for being a foreigner. Not even doing anything illegal, just being a foreigner. But if a white person comes across them, even if that white person is a foreigner, they treat them with the utmost respect. Why is that? And South Africa is one of the most Christianized nations in Africa. You see what I'm saying? The image of a white person being God is psychologically damaging to us. And that's what we have across the Caribbean, across Africa, and across um the United States. That's what we have.
See what I'm saying? So, how can it made it how can it make it better?
>> That psychology will no longer exist because the god that you worship looks like you.
>> Yeah. I so I think we are making progress here because I agree with what you just said but the thing is it's more nuanced than that for instance um like what you just said that has been shown in in experiments through the the the Clark doll test where they had like the black little girls choose dolls and they would choose like the white dolls over the black dolls back in the 50s which led to like the civil rights laws. But like what you're talking about, it's not just black people choosing like a white god and it because that kind of throws off their psychology. It's literally because blacks are minorities or I mean I don't know uh the true reason why but there is a preference for whites generally speaking for blacks to have a preference of whites over blacks for um and this is being done by young uh black people and this was found in the 50s 60s7s and it's and and it's been replicated >> today >> and that's just part of the Yeah. And that's just part of the complex world that we live in when we are a minority and it's a fact of it's just a fact of the world and it sucks. But I don't think that we're going to be able to change that by just following this, you know, more, you know, primitive religion because we're still going to be minorities in the country.
We're like we're still going to have the white preference uh for a number of reasons. That's just not going to change. That's just a hard fact that we just have to absorb. I don't think it's going to change it because someone believes a more primitive, you know, more ancient false belief system. It's it's just not going to change it.
>> But the reason why why the reason why why I disagree with that is because spirituality is very very important to a lot of people, right? And yeah, you're right about the doll test and everything like that. We we're a minority in this country at least. But there something is not just affecting us here in this country. It's also affecting people over on the motherland. But the reason why I disagree that it would change is because again your according to your spir um if you have a spiritual worldview where the the um being being the preference of whiteness is the is the one that's greater is the one that's more divine that's going to have a psychological effect. If you no longer have that view that whiteness is greater, whiteness is more divine, and you see that in yourself, you would see that the doll test, it might not happen immediately, but it will start to flip. I 100% believe that you will start to flip if you see spirituality based more on more on if you if person who looks like you is more divine than than somebody else.
I would I think I think we'll start to flip.
You can you can literally use the Christian uh uh like use the person that you're talking about, Jesus. Jesus was Jewish.
He was most most most Europeans know that Jesus comes from the Middle East and they and and and for the past, you know, 2,000 years, Europeans still decide to follow a Jewish Middle Eastern person and make them the god of their belief system. But what they did was very unique. they then did lighten his skin and make him look more white.
That's understandable. And and many black groups do the same thing, right?
So, it's not true that because you have a a god belief or the leader of, you know, the religion, you know, when it comes from this other group that the that the that the group that is then subjugated to that god that they are um subjugated because of that religion.
It's because of what's happening culturally. It has nothing to do with the or very little to do with religion because we've seen because we've seen it. I mean, we've seen it when when when black people are are oppressed, right, around around the world, right? When did it not come with religion?
>> It always came with Christianity or Islam. Always.
>> You see what I'm saying? When it when it when when we were subjugated in America, it came with Christianity. We're subjugated in the Caribbean, it came with Christianity. Colonialism came with Christianity. It wasn't Christianity first, then colonialism. It was colonialism with Christianity. You see what I'm saying? I want to go hold on. I want to go back.
>> The economics of the or it was the economy. It was it was it's what happens when a more primitive >> culture.
>> We got to stop saying primitive, bro.
They were not primitive. We got to stop saying that.
>> You keep brother primitive. It's more So, hold on. Why were the black Why were the Africans dominated by the Europeans? Because they had more primitive weapons.
>> No, the No, the Ashanti had guns. Bro, the reason why Hold on.
>> Hold on, hold on, bro. Bro, bro, >> this is the same guy that said he don't let me answer this question. Europeans met Africa in the 1400s. They didn't get to the scramble for Africa happened in the 1830s. That's 500 years, bro. They didn't just conquer them and and and bulldoze over them. They couldn't even get into that. The reason why the um um Europeans were able to get into the interior of Africa is is because number one, the Africans made a mistake with the Atlantic slave trade. Number one, they were brain draining and population draining their people. But number two, because of that, you start to have population collapse and and um and infighting in between kingdoms. If the Atlantic slave trade never happened or didn't happen in the scale which it which it did, like the Europeans would never have been able to conquer Africa.
Remember, it took them 500 years to even start the scramble. Question is, why why could the Africans why did they not have the ability to stop Europeans from colonizing them?
>> They did, bro. Again, it took 500 years for it to happen.
>> It still happened. Why? Why?
>> The reason why I I told you the reason why it still happened is because of um because of population collapse and infighting amongst the Africans. That's what That's what happened before.
>> But so you're saying because blacks kind of indirectly allowed it to happen. But if blacks >> That's not what I said. That's not what I said. That's not what I said. Listen.
Listen what I'm saying.
>> Listen to what I'm actually saying.
>> Listen. Listen to what I'm actually saying. Listen what I'm actually saying.
The Atlantic slave trade caused a population drain. That's number one. But number two, there was infighting amongst the African kingdoms. The Congo had civil wars. The uh Ashanti Empire had wars in between each other. the the other different rivaling factions, the the Europeans would would arm each other and and let them fight fight fight it out. That's what they that's what happened. You feel me? It wasn't just because, you know, [ __ ] were just sitting back and, oh, we just got spears, go ahead and take us over. That that wasn't happening, bro. A lot of these uh a lot of these African kingdoms had their had powered weapons. They had they had guns and [ __ ] like that. Like the the the the British went to the war with Ashanti like three times, three, four times. It was only the last time where the British were able to could conquer that kingdom. Before that, the Asanti kicked their ass. You see what I'm saying? So, it was that was the issue.
>> I feel like >> No, I feel like this this conversation I'm having a like I'm having a conversation with like true believers right now. And it's because you guys are so emotionally wrapped in like the black story because you're black.
>> Anderson, what I just gave you was facts, bro. What I just gave you was a historical fact. It was a it's a historical fact that the Europeans met Africans in the 1400s and the scramble for Africa didn't happen until the 1800s. Over 4 to 500 years of contact and they were never able to conquer them during that 500 years. Is a fact that African kingdoms were able to beat back European kingdoms. That is a fact. It is a fact that the Ashanti had weapons and they had guns and that the way that the British were able to to conquer them was through the third war that they had. The first two wars they were able to do anything. It is a fact that it was it is a fact. It is a fact that the reason why the Portuguese were able to get into Congo and conquer them is because Congo was going through a civil war and it weakened them. These are all historical facts, bro.
>> Okay, that's fine. Fine. But the but the but the core point is literally at the end of the day one group colonized another group. Yes or no?
>> Yeah. But that doesn't mean that they did it because because Africans were dumber or more primitive. That doesn't mean that.
So I didn't say that they were dumber but the weapons that they had were insufficient to protect the their their land and their people. I.e. they were more primitive. I mean I mean let's say hold on hold on. Okay hold on. Let's >> What do you mean by primitive? That's what I want to say. What do you mean by primitive? Because primitive is very very insulting to to to these people.
>> I know it's that's the that's the that's the you are in your feelings about it.
That's what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is that prim but what I'm saying to Anderson is that primitive says that something is um is inferior or or not advanced and the Africans were >> advanced relative relative to something relative >> it's relative but that doesn't make the people primitive bro >> relative to the other one it is more primitive because you're you can't fight a war I mean if if if um Haitians Anderson Anderson. This is what I'm trying to say. This what I'm trying to say. This what I'm trying to say. Words have meaning, bro. You just can't say that that they're more primitive. Like for example, is Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. This is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying to you.
I am stronger than a 5-year-old. Is a 5-year-old primitive because I'm stronger than him.
>> It's not.
>> No. Right. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. No, it's not. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like Like we have to these these the these Hold on. Words mean things, bro. When you say something is primitive, you're saying that they're inferior and there weren't >> inf. No, I'm saying I am saying that yes, the weapons that the Africans had were inferior to the weapons that the Europeans had, which is why overall why the Africans were colonized. That's that's the way the world is.
>> They were colonized due to infighting and population drain again with the weapons. Hold on. Hold on. Let me ask you a question. And let me ask you a question. And let me ask you a question again. Again, why did it take the um the the Europeans 500 years to do the African slave trade if they were just or the the scram for Africa if Africans were just more primitive in weapons?
It took them 500 years because they weren't technically I don't think they were trying to conquer Africans. What they were trying to do is they were trying to monetize a system of the slave trade. So they they just wanted to get what they wanted to do. They wanted to get what they wanted uh which was not to take over Africa per se but to use the Africans, you know, to just make more money. And they had the resources and the tools to do it. For instance, so um >> Okay. So again, so so Anderson, let me I'm pointing something out to you.
>> When the Europeans first started doing the age of discovery, the Portuguese and the Spanish split the world in two. They said that this is your part of the world. This is our part of the world. So they were conquerors and we know they were conquerors because Christopher Columbus himself said there's a whole land mass over there that we can conquer. He he he told the Spanish that.
So they were conquerors. You know what I mean? But they couldn't do that to Africa for 500 years.
>> So if they were these these these advanced conquerors and they were not able to conquer Africa for 500 years, what does that tell you?
Okay, the simple question is if the tribes in Africa went to war with European countries in the 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, if they went to war, which they did, who would win? The Europeans would win because they had more advanced weapons. The reason you can't say that because you don't like that fact because but because it hurts your feelings. I understand it. But again, >> it's not about hurting my feelings, bro.
I know they had more advanced weapons. I said that. But they still weren't able to beat to to win until the 1830s. What happened in the 1830s for them to win >> until who cares? They won. They won.
>> All right. But but but Anderson, what I'm trying to point out to you, what I'm trying to point out to you, what I'm trying to point out to you is that even though the Europeans had cannons and more powerful weapons, the reason why Africans were able to uh to beat off or to stop colonialism is because they had the population and they had more um more cohesive kingdoms. Once those kingdoms started to uh weaken um through the civil war, due to population collapse, etc., etc., That's the only reason the Europeans were able to take over. It wasn't just because the It wasn't just because >> what >> why didn't the African tribes work together to save off >> the kingdoms?
>> Yeah.
>> The re the the um the um because like it's it's it's nuance. It's it's it's people, right? People are not always going to get along. Wars are always going to happen. Civil wars are always going to happen. Like I'm not I'm not sure what you're what you're trying to ask because like the these kingdoms has still had rivalries, right?
>> Yeah. So So the So the core answer to that question is it doesn't matter. They didn't and they lost. And because >> we know that they lost, but I'm the the the thing I'm trying I'm I'm trying to get to is that they didn't they didn't lose simply because they didn't have some sort of moral ethical framework or weren't advanced enough. They lost um >> because they were not advanced enough.
That's exactly why they lost because >> the weapons were the Yeah, the um the the Europeans had um had uh had uh had um had uh better guns. Yeah, they had better guns. No one denies that. No one has to have better guns.
>> But yeah, they had better they had better guns. No one denies they had better guns. What I'm saying is that the um the the the Africans didn't lose simply because they had better guns.
That's that's very simplistic. It was very complicated why they lost.
>> It's not simply because they had better guns. It's o overall you have an advanced culture that interacts with a less advanced culture.
>> But they weren't less advanced. That's what I'm saying. They weren't less advanced. They were not.
>> Come on. This is this is >> the Africans were not less advanced, bro. This is whitewashing history.
Anderson. This is whitewashing history.
This is whitewashing history. The only thing Anderson, Hold on. The only thing that the Europeans had over the Africans was um was more advanced weapons. That's it. When it came to everything else, the Africans knew about all that stuff, bro.
They had astronomy. They had mathematics. Matter of fact, mathematics was so intuitive to Africans that a lot of them didn't even write it down. Like European scholar, European historians will even tell you. Hold on. European historians will even tell you that the way that a lot of these cities were built were mathematic and the kids knew about it.
>> You know what I'm saying? So is it's like they knew about all this stuff already.
So are you suggesting that the math that they had in uh England and in Germany and in France in the 1516 and 1700s >> they had an Africa >> they had they had so they had calculus they had what Newton did they had that in Africa >> no they didn't have calculus calculus was invented by Newton >> oh right so that's what I'm talking about you you need calculus for the more complex math that gets built off of it.
Um, >> did they have fractals? Did they have fractal geometry?
>> Okay. I mean, I didn't say that they didn't have fractals.
>> Okay. So, that's what I'm saying. Like, they had fractal geometry. They had algebra. They had trigonometry. They had all that. Calculus was invented by Newton. No one's denying that. But they had mathematics in Africa. They um >> they didn't have math. That's not what I'm saying. I didn't >> All right. So, they were not they were not less advanced than the Europeans then?
>> No.
>> What do you say less advanced? What do you mean?
>> Okay. If one culture, okay, by less advanced, I mean the science, the um uh uh like the government system.
>> All right. What's science and government system that that existed in Africa that the Europeans were more advanced with?
>> So, I don't know the details of what the systems look like.
>> There you go. I know some of those details and I can tell you they were not less advanced.
>> So, you're telling me Hold on. So you're telling me that the political system that that they had in England in 1775, the same political system or not the same political system but the one that was then transported here to the US.
You're telling me that >> Africans have a version of it.
>> Yes.
>> Had something similar. Yes. Like Batswana Batswana had democracy. You know realize that right now that they had they had a democracy. they had um something that was a monarchal democracy, meaning if the king lost the the um the confidence of the people, they can vote the king out. Europeans didn't think about that about that until hundreds of years later.
They had um systems of democracy, they had systems of kingdoms, they had administration, they had ministers, they had chieftdoms, they had councils, they had all that, bro. All that existed to end Africa. The only reason we don't know about it now is because again, the Europeans won and they're the ones who write the history. They're the ones who say that we're all over there in mud huts and chieftdoms and [ __ ] like that and we and we didn't have the advances that they have. All that's [ __ ] They did have the advances that they have.
So I'm I'm pretty certain that the written language like long form text was like very late to be uh to be using that. I don't know when I'm pretty sure it was much greater than a lot of other nations.
>> I don't know how you can have a a complex system if you don't have like long form written language like they did in >> there were plenty of ancient society that didn't have long form written language. Bro, the Incas didn't have long form written language either. But when it comes to that, that's also incorrect because uh because of Sidi.
Sidi something that's ancient. They had they um um sidi existed in Nigeria for thousands of years.
What I'm saying is that everything that you believed that about Africa being less advanced all came from white people. Bro, it was [ __ ] >> They were okay. Look, I I think Okay, I guess what I'm saying is there's a type of thinking again that I think I use to leave Christianity. And that thinking is this.
I am not going to look at the world from the perspective of a Christian or from a black person or from a man. I just want to know what's true. And if it's not true, I'm not gonna link, you know, my self-esteem to it. So, if I find something that makes me that maybe hurts my feelings or I don't like, I'm just going to go with the way, but I'm just going to go with what's true based off my understanding and what I've read and what I've learned. That's that has made me go, Christianity is not true, regardless of what it feels like for me to deconvert.
I've also applied that same thinking to like a lot of different areas. And once you start doing it for why did Africa get you know taken over by Europe? What was happening when it comes to uh the advancements of you know science, medicine, you know uh you know technology they were simply less advanced than Europe which is which which largely contributed to them being being taken one last question. Let me ask this one last question. Let me ask you one last question. Hold on. Let me ask you one last question. Anderson let me ask you one last question. Let me ask you one last question. Let me ask you one last question. Can I just finish my thought?
Can I just finish my thought? Because because you guys cut me off.
>> You already you you already said what was Okay. So what what was your thought?
Go ahead and finish your thought. I'm g ask you one last question. Go ahead.
Finish your thought.
>> Promise. Last thought. So So I'm just saying that that type of thinking I feel like you guys you guys do apply it uh to religion, but you don't apply it when it comes to black or like black like African systems and belief. you kind of like elevate it and you kind of it's kind of becoming like your new religion which is like just like um just like the like the like a semi-lack power.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> No, I knew that's what was going I knew that's what she was going to do.
>> Anderson, let me ask you a question.
>> Go ahead.
>> Did the Africans have C-sections before the Europeans?
>> I don't know. I don't know.
>> They did. Did they have anesthesia before Europeans?
Did they understand the root cause of what caused someone to become sick?
>> No, that's not what I asked. That's not what I asked you, Anderson.
>> Hold on, Anderson. Listen to my question. Did they have anesthesia before Europeans?
>> Dude, did they have germ theory? You're talking about a a micro medical practice. Germ theory.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. You want to go there? You want to go there? That's my third question, actually. Who Who came up with inoculation?
I'm talking about germs. I don't know that Anderson Anderson Anderson Anderson I know you're talking about germ theory.
Listen to my question. Listen to my question.
>> Inoculization meaning inoculizing yourself against pathogens. The Africans knew about it.
So yeah, they didn't write down germ theory. Like there's little microscopic things in the air, but at the at the end of the day, they knew how germs passed on to somebody else, which is why you never see an African kingdom have small pox because they knew how to protect themselves against it. The Europeans never did.
>> That's not That's not That's not that advanced. You can you can >> but anderson this this this kind this this crazy this crazy to me. This crazy me Anderson you're saying that the the Africans didn't have the advances that the Europeans have have. But inoculization the thing that saved millions of lives. Africans figured that out hundreds of years before they met Europeans but they weren't at as as advanced. That sounds insane.
>> I mean I think I think I mean I think you're as insane. You're saying that Africa is at was was as advanced in the 15,6 and 17.
>> Yes, they were. They were. They were.
>> Even according to the Europeans themselves.
They had all this [ __ ] bro. The reason why we don't know about is because the Europeans burned it down.
>> I think that's just a crazy statement. I think that's a crazy statement, >> bro. European European historians European historians going into Africa have written about how advanced it was.
Have you ever even heard of walls of Benine?
>> You heard of that, right?
>> No. No, I have not heard.
>> Exactly what I'm talking about. So, how can you say that they they were um less advanced when the walls of Benine were were longer and more extensive and more detailed than the wall of China? That's according to European historians.
>> Okay. Can I just >> What are we saying, bro?
If you learned that the African nations were not advanced, how would that affect your world view moving forward? If you learned, not that you do believe it, but if you did believe it, how would that affect how you see Africans and and >> it won't affect it either way? The Europeans still [ __ ] up our um our our development. What are we saying? Africa was um was developing without eur um Europeans. We had advanced developments um independent of them and before them.
So it was still advancing. They would that that wouldn't matter. Even if it wasn't advanced in some ways, it was still advancing. That wouldn't matter.
>> But most most cultures, I mean, if you look at, you know, like most cultures throughout the world, the growth and the advancement was happening much faster than it was in West Africa. And >> no, it wasn't, bro. Again, bro, again, it was not.
>> It was not, bro. I mean the book so the book by uh uh >> Anderson Anderson listen listen to what I'm saying to Listen what I'm saying to you because a lot of what you're saying is white propaganda bro it was not Africans were not just these people who were living in mud huts and didn't know what stars were not what was going on bro >> that's not what I said I didn't say that they were living in mud huts I I've never said that >> so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here you're saying that that the Africans were advancing less than other cultures they weren't bro this is propaganda that's what I'm saying >> the pace the the pace case of evolution of the culture.
>> It was the same, bro. It was the same.
It was the same. It was the same. I'm telling you, what you're what you're repeating is white propaganda. The technological advancements were the same. The only thing that wasn't was in weapons because Europe was always in war. So, they advanced their weapons a lot a lot a lot faster. The Inca didn't have guns either, right?
>> Okay. So, then Okay, hold on. Let me ask a question. If so, if Europeans never took over Africa, do you think Africans would have developed tools to figure out the Big Bang?
>> Yes.
>> That's wild. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'll learn something then because I feel like you're really serious. So, let me trust in that. Okay. So, I'll I'll do more research. I I kind of left history, so to speak, especially like that history.
So, I I But okay, that's wild. So, you think that >> that's not wild at all?
>> They're in Africa. The Africans would have the ability to invent technology and tools inside.
>> Yes. Why not?
>> Why not? Yes. They did not have the infrastructure for astronomy or >> they had astronomy. Africans had astronomy.
Look up the University of Timbuktu. They had astronomy.
>> Okay. Okay. So, I'm learning. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. So, I'll look into this. Maybe I'm wrong. But I >> look up the universities of Timbuktu and the books and the ma and the mathematics they had in there. They had astronomy, bro.
>> People used to go to Timbuktu universities to learn, especially in the Muslim world. It was one of the most important places for intellect in the Muslim world. Timbuktu, they had all this, man. I'm telling you, everything that you that that you're saying about Africa, about how less advanced it was, is all European white supremacist [ __ ] I'm telling you that right now.
>> I used to believe the same thing you're saying.
>> That's my fear.
Okay. But yeah, but my fear is like if I find evidence that conflicts with what you're saying, you're going to say it's just white [ __ ] Like, and because you're kind of like locked into it has to be true because you want it to be true.
>> I'm not locked into it has to be true. I I understand that Africa was was taken over that the Europeans had the printing press and they were able to spread knowledge a lot more easier than Africans were. I get all that. One of the big mistakes Africans made was not spreading literacy to the entire citizenship. only the top echelon had um had uh literacy and Africans didn't.
That was a mistake. You see what I'm saying? So yeah, I'm I'm I'm not saying that they they had everything that that Europeans had. Europeans had more literacy amongst the population because of the Gutenberg printing press. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not I'm not saying that and they were able to spread their knowledge a lot more easier.
Africans should have should have copied that, right? So, we're not saying that they didn't make mistakes or they weren't some places where they could have been improved. But to say that they didn't have nothing that the Europeans had or super less advanced than them, no, man, that's [ __ ] There's a there's a lot more that you don't know about.
>> Okay. Maybe. Maybe. And I'm and I'm I'm totally open that there's more that I don't know, but based off my understanding of things, I I think that you're just being like emotionally hijacked because it it doesn't feel good to kind of absorb these facts. But a lot of Christians do the same thing. They go, "You're you're you're telling me that there's no >> You talk a lot, but but but I've haven't heard this.
>> Wait, you talk a lot, but I haven't heard you like what is your basis for what you're saying?" Also, have you ever heard of the Doon people? Do you know who the Doon people are and their um and their um their history of cosmos?
>> Sir, listen. Listen.
>> So, the my >> sir, I'm I'm just asking you a question.
>> Can I answer?
>> No, sir. Listen. You interrupt every time someone is talking. I don't know if it's because you have a delay, but I've been listening a long time and you do that every time. Vi starts talking. Um, have you ever heard of the Doon people?
>> No.
>> Okay. Why haven't you never heard of the Doon people? Is it because they're not European?
Um, I mean maybe because I mean I mean I don't know much about European industry either, but I know like kind of general.
>> Well, you I mean you you know enough to say you [ __ ] is dumb and everything you got was from Europeans.
>> I don't understand.
>> That's that's how it sounds. You you know enough to say you [ __ ] are stupid and everything I got it from Europeans but you don't know who the dog gone people are >> it sounds like you're but >> it sounds like you're but sir I'm not buttth hurt I'm asking you a question this has nothing to do with me being but hurt this has nothing to do with me being buttth hurt at all I I have no >> I I don't Sir Why do Why are you talking while I'm talking Why are you talking while I am talking. Why are you talking while I am talking?
>> Go ahead, Lords. I muted him.
>> What are you talking about? Who's butt hurt? I'm asking you, have you heard of the Doon people? You said no. And then I asked you, is it because they're not European? And then you said probably.
What am I supposed to do with that kind of answer?
>> I mean, that's correct, but you also said that I said that black people are stupid or something like that.
>> I mean, that's the gist of what you're saying. That's the gist of what you're saying, right? You should read the That's literally the gist of what you're saying. So much so to the point where you just told Vi >> now you just told Vi >> that you think that he's building a whole religion around right you said I think you got or just building a religion around like pro black whatever right you that's what you're saying you I don't understand that you have you have implied that the entire time.
That's what you have implied the entire time. I'm not the only one that thinks is the word he >> anything dealing with black people.
>> Let's say that is the case, right? Let's say that is the case. What does that have to do with black people should not be Christian, Muslim, or BHI? Let's say everything you're saying is true. What does that have to do with the topic?
Because so the way we got here is my point was so I'm an atheist, but my point is that some people I think should be an atheist if you have the luxury to have that belief and you care about what's true. But if you're living in a very you know dire situation like a place in Haiti, I don't think that you should be an atheist. I think that you should be religious. Now the question becomes which religious uh sect should you follow?
I think it more I think it makes more sense to follow something like Christianity because I think it's a more modernized more advanced religion because of its history com when compared to the ancient African religions.
H how could it be a more advanced religion? What is the difference between let's say let's say what's the difference between let's say Christianity and I don't know zorastrianism.
>> So with the one caveat I don't know you know every African religion and the full details of every African going most people don't I mean most of the religions I don't think were even written down. So, so how can you say it's more advanced if you don't know the full How can you say it's more advanced if you don't know the full details? It's more >> minor.
So, I need to know the details of every religion, every ancient African religion before I can make that statement.
>> Well, no. So, so what are you comparing it to is what I'm asking. What are you comparing it to to say that it's more I'm comparing it to Yeah. So, Right. Right. So my my point is certain religions um especially the New Testament uh Christianity there's parts about its moral system to me that seems more advanced >> breaking up you going in and out >> human sacrifice or the lack of animal sacrifice because Jesus is >> because Jesus uh is kind of like the symbolic sacrifice that to me is a jump in a moral system which makes uh like the New Testament Christianity more advanced than a lot of other religions already because you don't have you don't need to have sacrifice child sacrifice uh you know sheeps or you know you know mammals you like you don't need to take part in that that's one two is the core of Christianity it's about life being very difficult and being hard which is why you then have to like praise Jesus and you have to like uh you know get saved because life is hard. I think that life is hard. So when you have a religion that's based on life being hard, you you you kind of do this advancement because the human condition is that >> life is not hard. I don't think life is hard.
>> I mean, it may not be for you, but for most humans throughout human Well, guess what? If life is hard for you, but but again, you said, "I think Wait a minute.
Hold up. Hold up. You said, "I think life is hard." You added a caveat when I said life wasn't hard. You said, "Well, to you." You didn't say that for you.
You didn't say, "I think life is hard for me." Why do I Why when I say life is not hard, you add a caveat. Well, to you it's not hard. You didn't say that when you just say I think life is hard.
>> Why didn't you say to me? I'm saying that the human condition I think that the human condition is that of generally speaking it's it's it's a very difficult situation generally speaking for most humans to be human and to live for the past like 250,000 years. Uh and when you have a religion that's kind of that's kind of the forefront of how it starts and then it says okay now we need to get out of this very tough situation that we're in. That's also like an get out of the tough situation they're in. How does this Can you give me empirical evidence? Wait a minute. Can you give me empirical evidence that this religion helps people get out of the tough situations that they're in?
>> Sure. So pretty much all of the evidence, all of the data shows that um people who are more religious tend to be less depressed and they commit suicide.
So, you should have the study. Can you show me, sir? Okay. Give it to me.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I know what he's talking about, right? And and that that's something that that apologists are kind of put out there.
>> No, but I want him to give it to me. He I don't want him to tell me I should be able to go look it up. He said it. You You should have it on fingertips.
I mean I feel like I mean if Vi is also aware of this I don't want you to mean I just want the study I don't want anything else >> too much into our feelings right now like are we trying to have >> sir this has nothing to do with my feelings I'm not talking about feelings I am asking you to be able to back up what you said that's all I want I want you to be able to back up what you say this has nothing to do with my feelings That's why I don't care what how you feel. I only care what you can prove.
I'm not talking about feelings right now.
>> He tried to pour this [ __ ] on me.
Talking about feelings, [ __ ] Ain't I Man, look.
>> Well, you know, probably out of everybody, you know, I give less than what a [ __ ] feel. I could care how you That's how you feel about anything. You can tell how he delivers >> to talking for and with white people.
>> That's why he instantly put Africa down like religion don't come from Africa.
>> No, wait a minute. No, I don't want him to get distracted. I want him to tell me. Excuse me, y'all. I want to tell me >> about the thing. I don't give a [ __ ] about that. I know a bunch of antilack black people.
Most of them are men.
>> But I just want to know the link.
>> No. So, what's the link?
>> Hold on. Um um I dropped it in the in the comments.
>> I have it here in the comments. I dropped the the link in the comments because he's dropping in in the in the chat. So, I dropped the link in the comments. I know exactly what u what studies he's talking about too.
>> But you you have to take into consideration um Anderson that a lot of this has to do with community as well, right? If you have more of a community, you're probably going to be less depressed. It's not just the um the the the religion. I think the even the study pointed this out too where uh they they they said to be careful of saying that you know was simply the religion that gives him that it's more about the community around him.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That that would make sense to me. Yeah. No doubt.
>> So is that what the article say?
>> Uh yeah. I'm bringing up the article right now because I I the last time I from I recall when I read it that's what it was. It was more about um the the community around him, not just being part of the religion.
>> Yeah. Give me one second.
Let me just take a look at the abstract here in the discussion >> and and like the idea is >> so when I I read through it, >> it's hard when I got to the bottom that kind >> basically religion makes it easier to cope. That's that's basically what this study is showing. You know, it's gonna be it's gonna be lower rates of uh I don't want to say the sword, you know, where you where you unall alive yourself. It's lower rates of that and lower rates of, you know, it's almost like religion. Uh it helps you cope and your awareness of what's going on on around you. You're you're you're kind of desensitized to it because you don't give a [ __ ] about the real world at that point. you're more focused on when you're more when you're more focused on the afterlife, the whole world burning down in front of your eyes doesn't really have that same effect on you because you you you're going to a house not made by human hands if you understand what I'm saying.
>> Yeah. No doubt, Lord.
>> No doubt.
>> Yeah. So basically he's saying you're talking that it is the largest exercise >> in in uh displacing oneself away from their reality and it gives them something that they can focus on rather than something within themsel that is organic. They have to have something that is fabricated, not about them, not completely of them, and put all of their hope, intention, and I guess pray intention in it, and it and it just happens. But it doesn't promote them to create any type of society towards where you you you don't create that type of response in your citizens, right? All this talk that Christ look, I don't know if you know, but Christianity is evil, homie. for real. And and you one of those type of people that don't like to make it own up to its history.
>> I hear the way you talk. I hear the way you speak. I hear the way you measure. I hear how you hold metric. It's clearly eurosentric. Right. Probably one of them self-hating. Black people grew up in a [ __ ] >> But wait a minute. Can we talk about what the conclusion of this >> No, but I'm still talking religion. I'm still talking religion, sis. I'm still talking religion. But but can I respond to particular >> No. Can we talk about what the conclusion of this study says?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Can we can Can we pause real quick? Let's talk about the what the conclusion of this study says. I I appreciate you. Uh I'm not sure how to say Rohingya. Is that how you say your name? Rohinga, son.
>> Roish. All right.
>> Rohena, you know, I I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't see it, bro. All right. Um Rogish. All right. Thank you, Roish. Using more sophisticated techniques and general hospital samples, we have observed that while lower religiosity scores were associated with higher sword, >> no such correlation could be established between higher religiosity scores.
>> Mhm. which may suggest the presence of a plateau phenomenon after a certain level of religiosity which also accounts for the conflicting views on the effects of religiosity on coping and >> that's word >> yes >> yeah such a phenomen >> such a I'm sorry go ahead >> such a phenomenon has not been demonstrated in any prior study which most studies showing either no correlation or association or showing frank direct or indirect direct correlation. Further research, further research and investigation are needed to find exact correlation between religiosity and particularly in a diverse country as India. Mhm.
>> So they didn't find a correlation.
They didn't find an exact correlation between religiosity and sword cuz they say further research and investigation are needed to find the exact correlation between >> I mean they didn't find a causation but there's a correlation. There's a bunch of STUDIES ON >> NO, THEY DIDN'T FIND A CORRELATION. It says it. It says >> further research and investigation are needed to find Why don't you want me to read this?
>> Further research and investigation are needed to find the exact correlation between religiosity and s particularly in a diverse country as India. They didn't find an exact correlation.
This is what their their this is what the conclusion of their study says. They didn't find an exact correlation.
>> Yeah. So, >> they didn't find one.
>> So, this is one study, but if you look at like the meta analysis, you see the general direction, the more religious you are, the less likely you are to be depressed and vice versa. It's not a causation.
>> But this study doesn't say that. It says they they didn't find an exact correlation between religiosity and the sword particularly in a diverse country >> as India. They didn't find it.
>> Do you know what a >> I do but but I asked you for a study that says it and you said that this study did and this study does not.
>> Yeah, I googled. Okay. I googled and is the first thing that pops.
>> Okay. Well, find another one. Find another one cuz I want I want one that says what you said it says. That's what I want. That's >> me one too.
>> I asked you for one that says what you said. It says and this literally says that >> further research and investigation are needed to find a an in the exact correlation between religiosity and the sword particularly in a diverse country as >> All right. Yeah. Hold on guys. Um um let me just say one one last thing. All right. Because Anderson, you don't have you don't you don't have to go through it because I went ahead and and Googled the entire thing and metal analysis and here's what um what they found right yes highly religious or spiritual people experience lower rates of depression and you know what the key aspects were that they said that reason why that is social connection coping mechanisms.
>> So having a social connection having community >> and being able to cope those were the reasons. All right. But again, we have to ask ourel a question. Do you need religion to have coping mechanisms? Do you need religion to have social connection? You don't. So, if we're able to create healthy communities within the secular sphere, which is what I'm aiming to do, something that I want to do, and shout out to Donte Lamar, he also wants to do it as well. If we have that, then we wouldn't need this, would we? The only reason why this exists is because the mo majority of the world is religious. But if the majority of the world is not religious, that doesn't mean that the majority of the world is going to become the press. All that means that we're going to find other ways to have social socal connections.
Humans are social creatures, bro.
>> No. No. Now, what you just said, like I agree with 99.9% of it, except for what I said, and I said it several times.
There are places in the world where I I don't think, for instance, like in Haiti, I don't think you can just take out the supernatural part of their system because their life is so hard and you can just say, "Hey, >> but how has the supernatural part in life?" How has the supernatural part helped Haiti?
>> Can you tell me how the supernatural part has helped Haiti?
How has it helped them? How has it >> How has it advanced them? How has it made Haiti better?
>> Yeah, because we talked about this last time and I told you. Go ahead, Roish.
I'm sorry. Go ahead.
>> I'm saying he keeps saying Haiti. That's how you know he has an agenda.
>> He hasn't Yeah, he repeated another nation. What? name another nation who who has similar circumstances like Haiti who could benefit from your from them accepting your solution.
>> I I think he keeps pointing out Haiti.
I'm sorry. I think he's pointing out Haiti because he found out that I'm Haitian and I think he's also Haitian.
Was it your dad or your mom who was Haitian? Anderson?
>> Both.
>> It's both. Okay. So, that's why he keeps point but still can he just But can he tell me how religion has helped Haiti?
>> That's what I want to know.
Can Can you tell me the positive impact that religion has made in Haiti?
>> I'm not saying that religion helps Haiti. That's not That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that >> So now you're saying religion doesn't help.
>> I'm So I'm talking about the individual people.
>> Okay.
>> If you are living, >> but sir, who makes up a nation? A nation is made up of whom?
>> We're talking about We're talking about the >> A nation is made up of individuals.
Correct.
>> We're talking about We're talking about depression. That's what I'm talking about.
>> I know. But if a nation is made up of individuals and if this religion helps these individuals not to be depressed, I would assume that I would see this right >> and you do >> this would be borne out in the data in which these individuals have to interact with things, right? I would I would see that borne out some kind of way.
>> That's exactly >> right. You can't tell you can't tell me that the the individual people get better, but the nation doesn't because the nation is just a a a group of individuals, right?
>> No, it's more it's it's way more complex than that. You can >> No, it's not. Sir, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. IF EVERYBODY DISAPPEARED off the face of America, what would happen?
The nation is the individuals.
So I would assume that if the individuals get better then the nation should get better also.
Right? the technology and the science and the and the the core institutions may not advance because of a deeper global socioeconomic you know effect that the >> okay so religion has so religion has no effect on this global socioeconomic effect it has no it cannot help you with that is that what you're saying that religion can't help you with that So what good is it if it can't help you with that?
>> I'm talking about it helps the individual people live longer.
>> Okay. So how about this? What is it that is with what is it that that it is not helping those who are the constructors of the society to create uh >> he's saying cause such despair within the people such need or or or a necessity to have to cope to have to use. He said it makes them live longer.
If that is the case, we should see >> by not killing theelves in [ __ ] ass societies in sick ass societies that are No, but what I'm saying is >> to enrich to the point that they're supposed to enrich.
>> No, but if that's the case, we should see that more religious countries, their people live longer. We should see that.
Correct. Borne out in the data.
>> That's what I'm talking about. The data.
We should No, no, no, no.
>> No, you just said it should help them live longer. So, we should see that these uber religious countries, these people are living longer. Correct.
>> Right.
>> You being >> you being more religious does not help you get the medicine that you need.
>> No, but you just said it helps him live longer. Oh my god. You have sun helps to live longer.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, so Anderson, hold on. Everybody pause. Everybody Everybody pause. Everybody pause. Okay.
Okay. Let's Let's do this.
>> I literally can't.
>> Anderson, I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. We go for three hours.
But Anderson, we're going to let you go, right? But you're you you you have to be very very careful, especially when we talking to Lords. All right. Cuz Lords is going to hang you on to your every single word.
All right. You said that religion is going to help them live longer.
Obviously, that's not true. Okay.
Because like you said, you the religion is not going to get help you get your medication. All right. So, let's go to what you actually meant. Correct yourself.
When you say that um that that somewhere like a Haiti, like a Jamaica, like a Nigeria, etc. >> Yeah, man.
>> Is going to help them. How so? Because the most religious countries out there are literally third world countries that live in horrid conditions. So religion is not helping them in that point. How exactly does it help them? And be careful with your words because she's going to jump on you. I'm telling you.
Go ahead.
>> This is this so this is the nuance point.
>> Go ahead.
>> So the countries are, you know, like uh just like a very like a just like a wasteland, right? There's there's no type of infrastructure. Now, that means that you can't get the medicine that you need, which means that >> so then the religion does not help them live longer.
>> Hold on. Let me let me finish. Let me finish. I need to be able to finish the point. Now, when you take, let's say, two people, because they live in that area, they're both going to live less long than they would regardless if they're religious or not because of where they're living. My point is if you do make the person less religious compared to the person that is more religious, that person will live a a shorter life and be more.
>> But that's not what you said. I'm not going to let you dodge. I'm not going to let you dodge accountability because [ __ ] want you to do that. That is not what you said. You said religion helps them live longer. THAT IS what you SAID. THOSE WERE THE EXACT words out of your mouth. That is not what you said.
>> But if you >> That's not what you said. And I'm not going to let you dodge accountability.
>> I'm not. No, I'm trying to clarify my points because it's nuanced. But every time I try and complete a sentence, >> it's not nuanced. You said religion helps them live longer. And I said if that is the case, if that is the case then we should see that the most religious countries have longer life expecties.
If that's the case, >> it should be borne out in the data.
>> Again, the the way you set it up is a simplistic way of set setting up what I'm saying and it's going to lead to the conclusion that you're >> I'm trying to give you a chance, bro.
I'm I'm really trying to give you I I was really trying to give you a chance, bro.
>> All right. You could have just said, Anderson, listen. You could have just said what I said was incorrect. You could have just said that, bro. You really could just said that.
>> No, it's just what what she's saying is wrong. And literally every time I said to what you said, YOU SAID RELIGION HELPS PEOPLE LIVE LONGER. That's what you said. I didn't say that [ __ ] You did.
If you have someone who is religious and someone who is not religious, the person who both of them will live less long than they would because of where they're living. My point is right here. This is what this is the point. The person that is that is more religious is less likely to be depressed and commit suicide relative to the person in that place that is less religious.
>> Why is suicide such the issue? Why is that the only mortality factor that you bring up that you might have to utilize religion to guard against?
>> Because of the psychological factor.
>> The [ __ ] Religion don't make people ch change their their BMI rate or or or or adjust their cholesterol. Jesus don't ever tell none of the big [ __ ] to put that chicken down or whatever.
So, it it'll help them to do what? Save save your life. Don't jump off the bridge. I think but but Anderson Anderson the problem what you're saying Anderson the problem the big problem what you're saying and hold on hold on give me one second the big problem what you're saying is that again when we look at these research data right all it does it they talk about um social connection and coping mechanisms but if a non-religious person who lives in a third world country has social connection and has um um coping mechanisms then you won't see their suicidality rate go up or or down anymore than the religious person. Right now, we have no data, no research into non-religious people in these societies and if they're more depressed or not. We don't have that type of data.
>> Now, again, this is why mostly I Okay, I feel like if you could just mute her because that's a legitimate point and that's a legitimate critique. Now, LET ME RESPOND.
>> NO, [ __ ] YOU DON'T mute me because of some [ __ ] you said, you must have lost your mind or something. You said that. I DIDN'T SAY THAT. WHY? WHY DO I need to be muted? what you're saying IS TRUE.
>> WHY DO I need to be muted?
My point is, and to respond to what you're saying directly, Bolsey, is my hypothesis is that when you get a place where um life is as hard as it is, it's going to be difficult to have a group a like a network or a some sort of belief system, some sort of activity that can kind of galvanize people the way that religion can when so many people are living in poverty. That's why I I it's my hypothesis and I don't know.
But I don't think I think maybe in a place like New York City, you can say, "Hey, we can take out religion and we can start doing meetups where people are playing basketball and people are going to like movie nights and they're going to bars and they're hanging out and like the quality of life and happiness is going to stay the same. But I think in a place where people are dying at the rate that they are and they there's there's as much suffering at uh uh that they have in Haiti or places that are that poor, I think it's going to be hard to find the equivalent social glue that glue that something like religion can provide. I don't think you can just remove the religion, replace it with something else and have that same type of social glue and you know social has that religion and yet are still dealing with mortality numbers through suicide and a lot of other unnecessary uh avenues high than a [ __ ] It has nothing to do with the religion. What do So let me ask you something. What do you get from the religion that that >> I'm not I'm not religious. I'm not religious. Like I'm not religious.
>> What you mean? So you fighting up here hard as [ __ ] for it though.
>> Because again my entre ain't no [ __ ] You're not an atheist.
You ain't no atheist. You worship white people.
You ain't no [ __ ] atheist. You one of these black people that worship. We all know how this is what Gohead. This goes back this is this goes back to what we talk about on a daily basis when I go live. It sounds like you're just you're simply saying people who are religious, they're going to live longer because they're not depressed because they have a coping mechanism, but they're still but but they're just going to live longer and suffer and be able to cope with it. But them being religious is not going to change anything, which goes back to what Lor is talking about. You want people to live longer and be able to handle the suffering because of the coping mechanism. And we're saying we want life to get better for these people. Period.
And it's not going to get better with them practicing the religion that has caused it. Because in this context, this nuance, we're talking about black people and Christianity. All of the issues that we're facing in the United States and on the continent of Africa, these are caused by the Abrahamic religions. You want those people who are being um mistreated and oppressed, justified by the Abrahamic religions to then practice said Abrahamic religion. That doesn't make any sense. Anderson >> and you're you don't even practice the >> relig now. We're back at civil rights. You're a [ __ ] [ __ ] I want you to know that you're a bootlicker. You're a [ __ ] And you're you are an angloil. Look up. You like to look up the meta. You want to know the meta analysis? Look up the word angophiliac. That is what you are.
>> You obsessed and fantized with [ __ ] girl.
>> Angloiliac. Definitely. That's what he is.
>> This [ __ ] Angloiliac, man. It's because it's because we haven't c we haven't culturally established a definition of one what it means to be black, what it means to belong to being black. We doing all that now that is in the process. So no, nobody talk nobody talking black power. No, but the thing is you on white nuts so hard cuz and everybody could see it and you act like and you're young, right? You it's it's a trip how black people don't see that. We can see that on on on us. I'm going say us. All right. I was going to say you was whatever. Yeah. Y act like y act like we don't see we we don't see the sycopency or hear it from you. The fact that you came in speaking ill of Africa. You was speaking ill of blackness.
That that was that was symbolic of that.
Oh and and and they they don't have these cultures and the Europeans did this. All right. And you didn't even know inoculation comes from Africa. You didn't know that.
pilgrims will tell you that.
>> Oh yeah, black power and religion. You don't you never believed in black power.
You definitely believed in religion.
>> So don't even act like you black power.
You were never no pro black power cuz Okay. Don't ever act like you deserve that.
>> That's what I'm saying. I'm not I'm not bro I'm not pro black power.
>> Yeah, but you pro black power, right?
He's not pro black. He don't have to be.
He don't have all good.
>> He don't have to be. It's all good.
>> I'm pro humans. I'm pro human. But see, hold up. Wait, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know you got to go, boys. I'm not I'm let you go next. But this is what I got to say.
Bro, this is as as as someone who's Haitian >> and you're not black power, bro. What did Tucson and Dalines die for, bro?
What did they die for? They are spinning in their graves right now. If you say that as a black person from the nation of Haiti, that is not pro blackack power. We literally invited African-American free African-Americans to live amongst us. That's how black power we were. And you're saying that you're not pro black power as I >> might as well. he might as well be from Great Britain because if you if you look at the European countries today, >> they are they're they are not they're you know uh Christianity in Europe is going down, but they'll still advocate for like white supremacy and stuff like that. So even though he doesn't practice Christianity, he he he he's advocating for black people to practice Christianity to help them cope with the white supremacy and the >> Haitian Haitian that is being caused by the Christians. This is Angloiac 101.
>> Here's the crazy here's the crazy Hold on. Let me just get this out. Here's the crazy thing, bro. Our entire culture, entire Haitian culture has always been about uplifting black people.
>> I can't even look at this [ __ ] man.
Like it's literally in our language.
Like in our language, y'all. Do you know what we call strangers? Do you know what we call strangers in in Haitian Creole?
We call them blonds.
>> You know what we call our friends in Haitian Creole? We call them neg which root angle comes from negro. We call our friends black and strangers white. It's baked into our language. And you're going to sit here and say that you're not pro black.
>> It's baked into our language. And you saying that [ __ ] camera?
>> This is This is disgraceful, Anderson.
Come on. You got to do more of your research. You got to do more research into into African history. You got to do more research into history.
>> You're pitiful.
>> Give me one second, Bar. Just give me one second. Come on. Just one second, Bar. Just give me one second.
>> Can he cut his camera off?
>> I I can't cut it off for him. I I don't know if you can cut off. I I got cut off for him. But listen, >> [ __ ] disgrace. I don't want to look at this [ __ ] man.
Sit back. It is being pro black is not only part of our history. Hold on. Being pro black is not only part of our history. It's part of our culture.
Everything that we do for Haitians is supposed to be pro black. You cannot be Haitian and not be pro black power. Our entire revolution was based on that.
It's baked into our language. It's baked into our food. It's baked into the way that we have mannerisms around our people. Anytime a Hian goes anywhere, the first thing you do is look for a black person. My dad taught me that. I know your dad taught you that the first thing you do anywhere around white people is look for a black person. The first thing you do and you're not pro >> I can't look at this [ __ ] I can't look at this [ __ ] >> You know what's funny?
>> You know what's funny? You know what's You know what's funny bar? You know what's funny? It doesn't matter.
>> You know what's funny?
>> Lord's talking to me.
>> You know what's funny bar is that y'all said all this [ __ ] to this [ __ ] Not once did he tell y'all you should you should be muted.
Not once did he say that this [ __ ] scared of other black men tell them any all kind of [ __ ] Not once did that [ __ ] ever say you need to be muted. I'm asking him for facts and peer reviewed information. And that [ __ ] say well could you mute her?
This why I be saying [ __ ] be scared of other [ __ ] right? They don't want women to be scared of them, but y'all scared of them.
>> That was that was that was very that was very you know >> you show scared. You can you can believe he's scared. I'm I'm going say that he whatever whatever his source >> No, the [ __ ] scared. [ __ ] that. Don't always be trying to soften these [ __ ] He a scary Wait, hold up. Hold up. Now you baby, hold up, man. Hold up. Hey, I wasn't done talking. I wasn't done talking >> because he wasn't talking to [ __ ] silence.
Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Go ahead.
>> He tried to silence me >> and he didn't say a [ __ ] thing to bar. Bar called that [ __ ] a [ __ ] He called him all kind OF [ __ ] HE DIDN'T SAY NOTHING to [ __ ] bar. He didn't say [ __ ] to bar. Nothing. I didn't call him one name. Not one. He said, "Ask that [ __ ] a question."
>> I asked THAT [ __ ] A QUESTION. HE WANT TO silence me.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Well, well, I'm not going to make my comment specifically about him. It's not about him. It's about his sources, the the source of where he comes from within what he presents that would be best for black people. The fact that he's a I don't believe that he's an atheist. I have a hard time believing that he's an atheist. He sound like a weird Christian.
>> Look at his face.
>> That's what that's what he sounds like.
He sound he sounds more like as my German homie would say a vid Christian is a real Christian >> I'm like yeah yeah yeah he that that's what you sound that's what you come off as the fact that and and the the type of Christianity that you're weird about is that from you know what I'm saying the the European sector you didn't even understand that within Africa they had already had the systems prior to Europe how did you come to understand the history of that what you are saying that other black people are supposed to accept whatever and you and but you don't know the history before it hit the source you learned it from like everything it seems that everything that you learn only comes from white people >> so how how do you learn about the history of >> but I disagree I disagree it's it's him that's his that's him that's his character that's who he is >> he's an angophiliac at heart >> and and and the thing is it's not about his source no it's not about his sourc It's not about his sources. It's not about his sources because I went with that that [ __ ] he brought up. I went through it and Loris read it read it for us. If you just go down to the conclusion, it tells you this is not this is this is >> not it's not saying what he brought it up to say.
>> And and anyway, that's just dishonest.
>> Standing on atheistic principles. So my whole it's not about being atheist can't be atheists can't be coons and white supremacists and racist and all that [ __ ] too. That ain't that's him. That's there's nothing in atheism that say a person can't be a [ __ ] angel.
>> I have no problem that this [ __ ] is a sick fan of these white nuts. Let him do that. They got a lot of black people like that. I'm trying to figure out how is he standing on his on his logic square based off of him being an atheist. He don't sound like he's speaking from the No, no, it's not a butt. But you don't sound like you're speaking from the perspective of a black atheist. You sound like you're speaking from the perspective of a black and anti-black Republican. That's what I'm telling you. Well, hold up. And I'm tell And that's a problem. That's a problem, Anderson. That's a problem. You don't sound like an atheist. I got you. Hold on. Everybody pause real quick.
Everybody pause real quick. Everybody pause real quick. Hold on. Everybody pause real quick. Everybody pause real quick.
>> Yeah, you put human before being black.
All good and well, right? We understand that we're all humans, right? Cool. You can do the whole colorblind thing. Hold on, wait. I got you. We can do the whole colorblind thing, right? But the fact of the reality is in this society, in this western country that you're living in, you are black before you are human. You know that. So sitting here talking about I'm human before I'm black, that don't do nothing to us. Being black in this society is political. You know that as much as I do. And if you don't know that, you better [ __ ] learn. You better learn real quick because them them cops ain't gonna see you human before before black. They going to say, "Nigga, he's reaching for his gun even though it's your wallet and then shoot you." All right.
>> This is all you. This is all you. And the thing is, >> you also got black people You got black people from here that don't see that.
So, you can't really use that as a measure, as a metric. Yeah. They're going to choose not to see the framework for how for how anti-black it is. The whole point is if he's an atheist and he's promoting Christianity and he's promoting it specifically to to Haiti, what is it that you got out out of atheism that you don't think that Haiti could get out of it?
>> Because obviously it served you in some form or fashion. So, how could it not serve Haiti? So, that's a that's a that's a really good question. Um, I guess, yeah, let me I guess I'll say I don't know the woman's name. I guess it's it's it was kind of unfair for me to say knew her and not mute the other people. And she and you're right, she didn't curse me, you know, cut me off, but I'll take that back as much as I could. Um, so yeah, sorry about that.
Um, but now to answer your question directly, um, when I stopped being religious, I was telling literally everyone that I knew to like especially black people like, "Hey, this whole thing is just [ __ ] and it's just wrong and you don't want to believe it and it's just like it's just not true and it's just and just and I'm just going off everyone that I know." Um, but then what I realized was because some people's lives are really difficult, I don't want to pull the religion rug from beneath them because then when I do, I'll pull out too much of their worldview and I'll leave them spinning. I'll leave them spinning in a way that for whatever reason it didn't affect me uh badly to not have that belief system.
But for a lot of other people, I think that it can affect them in a way that um makes their life much worse. And for me, that didn't happen because I care about what's true and I just want to go with what's true regardless of how it makes me feel. But a lot of people, they don't care about what's true. They care about what what makes them feel good. So I the So like the So the first like 10 years, I was just like trying to make everyone decon convert. And then I flipped and I was like, you know what? Let me only talk to people who actually care about trying to make sense of religion. And the people that just love it because it makes them feel good. Let me just let them have it because I don't want to, you know, pull it from those types of people. And then when I thought about the people that I knew that lived in Haiti that were my family members, I'm like, "Yeah, it makes sense. I wouldn't want to, you know, have a conversation with them about religion, but I know how hard their lives are because I know I don't have that type of hardship."
So I and and in some ways black atheists rants I mean you said a lot of stupid [ __ ] but the one thing you said that is kind of true. There is kind of this like sad view of it right because I know it's not true. I know it's not really going to help their lives that much but I'm going to like really advocate for them to believe in something and it potentially could cause them to not improve their lives and then they're going to believe in that thing that's kind of messed up. It is messed up and I'm not sure what to do about that. But I'm trying to find what solution creates the least harm. And at least so far to me it seems like to advocate being uh being less religious for some people and for other people not to advocate it. That's that's kind of how my views have evolved over time.
>> It makes sense that there would be degrees.
>> You you said you said that I said a lot of stupid [ __ ] Name one thing that I said that was stupid. But he still never said how the religion helped these people.
>> I'm >> He said it don't. He said it doesn't help them.
>> So then what difference does it make if you take it from him?
>> That's what I was That's what I've been trying because that part is true. That part is true. There the thing is people have an anchor. What it is that people are anchoring to is [ __ ] It is illusion.
>> But it's not an [ __ ] Hold that.
>> I'm just hold on. Hey, hold on. No. You [ __ ] don't know [ __ ] history. It's not a [ __ ] anchor if the you can't I asked this I asked this guy um I and I've been asking people this but I uh I would ask people >> I live it >> um I would ask people if the clan reformed and they built schools and uh uh community centers in black neighborhoods as a black person, would you take your child to those community centers that the clan is building so they can get those resources? would you take your kids there? All the black people said, "Hell no. It don't matter what they do. I ain't taking my kids."
This is the same thing. Religion, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are what has those three are the driving justification for all the problems that have been caused in Africa and in these United States of America. You are saying that I want black people to to um give into the system that has led to the demise and miseducation of black people so that they can cope with the demise and miseducation of black people. That don't make [ __ ] sense. And then on top of that, >> but not even that. What good is the anchor?
>> No. No. The thing is y'all don't want to acknowledge how lo y'all don't want to acknowledge how lost black people are though.
anchor.
What good is the What? What good is the anchor if the anchor keeps you mired in [ __ ] >> It ain't about it. It is not about it being >> What good is the anchor if the anchor keeps What good is the anchor if the anchor keep you mired in [ __ ] If the anchor keeps you held there in the [ __ ] WHAT GOOD IS THE ANCHOR IF IT JUST KEEPS YOU THERE st standing in the [ __ ] >> Yeah. It ain't It ain't about >> waiting for you to die FOR SOMEBODY LIT UP.
>> It's about Hold on, son. Hold on, Roie.
Hold on. Hold on, son. Give me Give me Roie. Give me one second. Give me one second. I just I just I I just want I just want Lords to finish what she said.
Just give me one second and I'm I'm going let you go. Okay. Give me one second.
>> I'm just trying to figure out what what good is having an anchor that keeps you mired in [ __ ] If you was born neck up in in [ __ ] and they gave you a anchor and left you gave you the anchor but didn't move you out the [ __ ] They got some clean water right next to you. Right. But they gave you an anchor and left you neck up in the [ __ ] What good is the anchor? Let me drown.
>> It's not about it being good. It's not about it being good. It's about it. It's about acknowledging that is what we are talking about. I don't know.
>> I'm not done. I'm not done. I'm not done.
when you CAME ON HERE. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. I'm not done. WHAT GOOD IS IT? I DON'T CARE. YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT >> WAIT A MINUTE. SO, DO YOU SO, DO wait a minute. Do you want to hear my my answer or not?
>> No, no, NO, NO. BECAUSE MY QUESTION TO ANDERSON WAS, "What good IS THE RELIGION?" THAT IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
>> YOU SAID ANCHOR. I mentioned anchor and black atheist cut me off the moment. You heard me say anchor.
>> He never answered.
>> And I didn't get to finish what I was saying.
what he was saying. I was talking and I got cut off.
>> My question is what good is the religion if it does not >> get the answer if you mute and let someone TALK BESIDES YOURSELF?
>> WHAT GOOD is the what good is the religion if it does not help you? And nobody question it's about acknowledging what people are connected to. Of course they connected to [ __ ] religion.
THEY CONNECTED TO [ __ ] GOVERNMENT.
THEY CONNECTED TO [ __ ] CULTURE. I'M NOT DONE. OKAY. SO, IF IT'S NOT that don't even make that don't even make sense. I notice that y'all talking out loud. WHAT THE [ __ ] Y'ALL DOING THIS?
>> HEY. HEY, SON. SON. Hold on. Hold on.
Hold on. Hold on. I want Everybody Everybody Everybody take a beat.
Everybody take a beat. Everybody take a beat. Five, four, three, two, one. All right, cool. Everybody take a beat. All right, so we're going to we're going to go ahead and bring it down a notch. All right. So, just to reiterate Lord's question is what is the the um the good of the religion if there if it's mired in [ __ ] Now, son, you did say that it's not about that. It's about acknowledging >> I can't I got you. I got you, Roish. You said that it's about acknowledging what they're connected to and that part is important. Is that what you're trying to say? Go ahead and and finish your your statement.
>> Yes. The whole >> But that's that's not [ __ ] important.
That's stupid.
>> Why am I here? This is the second time you said something stupid. You want to talk or what?
>> No.
>> That don't [ __ ] matter. What you talking about is irrelevant to say though >> because you're bringing up something that's irrelevant to the conversation.
>> It ain't no irrelevant. It ain't no irrelevant.
>> Yes, it is. You talking about it don't matter if it help. It matter what they connected to. It don't [ __ ] matter when we asking. When somebody's asking how is the religion helping? Your response is it don't matter. It's about how they connect. [ __ ] WHAT ARE YOU EVEN talking about when you see that?
>> What are you even talking about right now? What happened with the whole separate sh my entire [ __ ] life?
Give me a second.
>> And if you notice, a [ __ ] raised his voice to me, but not to [ __ ] bar. You old.
>> I raised my voice to all y'all. Cutting me off, GIRL. AIN'T [ __ ] [ __ ] YOU, [ __ ] YOUR MAMA.
>> YOUR ASS WILL your ass will be dead.
You already got some type of feminist vibe on your ho ass anyway.
>> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We not doing that.
>> Just mute him and say that. We not doing that. We not doing that.
>> You ain't raised YOUR VOICE TO BAR NOT ONE TIME. YOU [ __ ] COWARD, [ __ ] You [ __ ] is cowards.
>> You [ __ ] is [ __ ] cowards.
>> Hey, listen.
>> YOU [ __ ] IS COWARD.
>> Shut up. Shut up, Anderson. Just speak.
THAT'S WHY WHEN THE POLICE KNEEL ON Y'ALL NECK, I'LL BE ON MY [ __ ] UH uh couch eating potato chips. You [ __ ] is cowards.
You [ __ ] is SOME [ __ ] COWARDS, [ __ ] YOU AIN'T TELL THAT MAN NOTHING.
>> Be quiet, please.
>> You had a PROBLEM WITH LORDS AND YOUR [ __ ] MAMA SHOULD HAVE SWALLOWED YOU.
You [ __ ] is some [ __ ] cowards.
I DON'T CUT FOR Y'ALL AT ALL.
At [ __ ] ALL CUZ YOU [ __ ] is cowards.
THIS [ __ ] WANTED ME TO MUTE. I DIDN'T CALL HIM OUT HIS name once. HE LET B CALL HIM EVERY NAME BUT THE [ __ ] CHILD OF GOD. [ __ ] AIN'T SAY [ __ ] Y'ALL DON'T LIKE BLACK WOMEN CUZ YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR [ __ ] MAMA'S. YOU MAD AT THE AT THE [ __ ] SITUATION THAT WHOLE BOND YOU IN.
And so you take it OUT ON EVERY BLACK WOMAN CUZ YOU CAN'T TAKE IT OUT ON THAT hole cuz either you need her money or the [ __ ] dead.
Oh boy.
I tried to bring it down. Bring it down a notch. I was trying to hear what uh My goodness.
I was trying to tell you to mute that [ __ ] so you can say what you was saying cuz he just >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I was um um I was trying to to to bring it down, but then we started going back and forth with Lords talking about I see some feminist in you when he called the her word out her name. I'm like, "No, I'm dropping you.
We ain't doing that." And you see talking to his mama. Listen, I know one thing for sure and two things for certain. The [ __ ] these [ __ ] tell me is the [ __ ] they want to tell their mama. They just can't. They don't like that either.
>> They come up here and tell us all kind of crazy [ __ ] about their mom. They don't like that [ __ ] either.
>> But they go out and take it out on every other woman they see cuz they can't tell that cuz most of the time she dead.
>> Can I?
>> Oh, they don't [ __ ] with her cuz she >> Oh, hold on. Hold on. I I got you cuz I'm gonna get out of here in about five minutes. But cuz cuz that that that that really always just tells me that this is you know within um even the the the secular space with an atheist community there's a lot of deconstructing that we still got to do.
>> I was trying to tell that I couldn't I'm trying to that's why I was telling I was trying to tell you to mute him so I can tell him cuz he kept bringing up this atheist [ __ ] I was trying to explain to him just cuz this nigga's a black atheist and just because you a doesn't absolve you from the other [ __ ] that we got going on. That's what I was trying to tell that n or that [ __ ] I couldn't get it to him cuz he kept >> trying to I don't [ __ ] know.
>> I don't know.
>> I don't [ __ ] know. Being an atheist does not make it doesn't you're not free from the rest of the [ __ ] that we have to deal with, deconstruct from and unpack and unlearn. You're not. That just mean you don't believe in God.
Okay. What the [ __ ] else about you though? It's all this other [ __ ] Clearly, we got a [ __ ] angloiliac up here. He's fantized and fantasizing about white European [ __ ] He think we primitive. He got other [ __ ] to unpack.
Whether he believe in God or not, that [ __ ] he got some [ __ ] to deal with.
But go ahead.
>> Oh, man. All right. Yeah. It's about to get into four hours, so I got to got to go ahead and and get out of here soon.
What was your last question, uh, Anderson, so we can go ahead and get out of here, please?
>> No, no. Can she ask me her question because I wanted to respond directly to her question, and I don't see your name on here, that's why I'm not >> Her name is Lords.
>> Lorts. All right. Lords, what was your last question that you asked? Because it was a very pointed question and I wanted to give it a response.
>> Oh, I don't I don't remember, Chad. I don't remember what I asked you.
>> Well, cuz I because I mean, you talked about like the anchor like what's the point of having the anchor and >> Yeah. What's the point of Yes. What's the point of having the anchor if it keeps you mired in [ __ ] >> You got you up You got [ __ ] up to your neck.
>> You got quick sand up to your neck. Now listen, you're not sinking any lower, but you also can't get out, >> right? No, I I agree with that. And I think too, like one is that's what I'm saying. I think that the human condition is just really tough. And I think that you're right. It's it's insane, but it's that like a lot of people are going to believe false things and there's nothing we can do. So my thing is against do the thing that causes the least pain and allow them to continue with the false beliefs because it makes them feel better but ultimately >> I know but they also take those they also take those >> I get it that's sad but that's the way the world is to me.
>> No but they take those false beliefs into the ballot box. They hurt other people. Why can't we hurt them?
>> They hurt other people with what they believe. Why can't we hurt them?
Well, I think so. I think that so the second part would be I think that in in in a lot of ways Christianity can help.
Um, >> and I've been asking you to name a way.
>> I'm saying straight up.
>> No, I'm saying straight up. I mean, things like the civil rights were promoted off the back of Christianity.
Like was it or or do So, so do you think if Martin Luther King were not a preacher, he would not have done that?
That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I'm agnostic to that. I don't know. I don't know if he was going to have the same the same ump in his speech. I mean, he was a pastor, right?
That was a big that was a big >> No, but that but you think his speech is what you think you think his speech is what did it? You think his speech is what did that?
>> No, no, no, no, no. his religious belief, his religious convictions because of Christianity. That that I helped I think that helped promote that helped kind of um build his message, you know, like around, hey, blacks whites are not greater than blacks. Blacks are not greater than whites because we're all, you know, child or like, you know, >> yeah, but Jesus didn't believe that.
>> But Jesus didn't believe that. I don't know if he's gonna >> Well, Anderson, let me >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Because you don't think so. Or so. Are you saying that there were no Christians that died during the civil rights movement?
>> I'm not saying that.
>> But but you think there were no non non preachers there like like Oh, you're right. You're saying like non-Christian. I mean, there were, but the head I mean, the head of the whole movement.
>> Yes. But that's what I'm asking. Do you think he did that because he was Christian or because he was black and it was affecting him negatively?
>> No. No. I think because he was Christian, it helped him have an anchor to promote his, you know, his message.
If you remove the Christianity from Martin Luther King, I don't know if you have the civil rights movement when you had it.
>> I know, but you don't know. That's what I'm saying. You don't know.
>> I know.
>> So you can't I'm saying we don't know evidence right now. So you can't so you can't attribute it to if you don't know you don't know either way. Correct.
>> Well, we have some data. The data is he said I have my belief so largely because of Christianity and Jesus Christ. So we have that DATA FOR >> OKAY. SHOW ME WHERE THAT IS CUZ JUST NOW YOU SAID YOU'RE AGNOSTIC to it. You don't know either way. But now we have that data.
>> Can can I can I just add something real quick? Okay. I'm I'm sorry. Let me just I'm sorry Lord. Let me just add something real quick. Uh number one within the civil rights movement we got the civil rights movement had people of all walks of life right the biggest ones was the nation of Islam and and the southern preacher southern poverty not southern poverty the southern leadership conference of Christian leadership conference thec so led by Martin King and Malcolm X but you also had the black panthers who were majority of them were non-believers right so like this is what we're saying it came from and not only that you had Marshia P Johnson who was part of the LGBTQ community so you had all walks of life within the civil rights movement. So when we say that without Christianity, the civil rights movement still happened, I do believe that it still happened because it was affecting them just like how Lord said because they were black. Now MLK's entire entire philosophy, the thing that we do have data of is that what MLK had grounded his entire thing in humanism or we had just grounded things in defense and and power. Um, we don't know either way, of course, but the the nonviolent pacifist one that we probably saw, it probably would have been something else. And the crazy thing about that is that pacifism was given it was a strategy given to him by um some by Bayard Rustin who was a a homosexual man who was not religious. You know what I mean? So, his entire strategy could have still happened. Like, I don't think that it would have been something that wouldn't have happened just because MLK wasn't religious.
Yeah, that's that's very that's very possible. Like I don't disagree with any of that. Yeah. I think I think that you could ground it in some sort of humanism and you could reach those principles without Christianity, but but but we didn't. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It was Christianity that that was used. I agree with that. All right, guys. Um it's about to get into four hours, man. Um and I'm going to go have to have to drop you. We got to we got to move on. Um I'm not sure. I think Lord's got a call, so Oh, there she is. Uh, Lord, did you have any any any last thing before we go ahead and get out of here?
>> No.
>> Got it. All right, cool. Not a problem.
All right.
>> Hey, you know our feelings. Lord, >> shut up. Still you still an angophiliac, [ __ ] It don't That don't change you putting them above us, calling us primitive. You ain't call them primitive, not one time. And they got civilization and culture from us.
>> Shut up.
>> We're equal. I don't think they're above us. them. I think >> No, we're not. No, we're not. All right.
>> Go and read. Throw them. Oh, I was about to give him something to go [ __ ] read. [ __ ] come out some No hard feelings. And you you just boy, it is some hard feelings, [ __ ] >> Yeah, it's all right.
>> Cuz you cope for white people. You want You want proximity to them, not your own people. You call us primitive, [ __ ] Man, no.
>> No. We We a We ain't doing that.
>> He probably got a picture of Trump on his wall. No, [ __ ] I don't know nothing about no apologies right now.
>> I I [ __ ] hope not. I I really I I really hope he he does.
>> Show me what you show me what you They say they say don't show me what your chat GBT search look like. Yeah, [ __ ] Then you see get a get an apology, [ __ ] I don't know what you searching up on the in the web.
>> Oh man. Show me what you Why are white people more I don't know what he searching up gang?
Show me what you looking into, [ __ ] I don't know what he looking at.
>> Oh man. All right, y'all. So, it's we have 4 hours. I'm going to go ahead and and and get out of here, man. Get out of here.
>> Yo, Willie, you you too late, man. It's It's been 4 hours. Willie Jones, come back next time. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Willie. Come back next time. All right.
But I do appreciate you, man. I do appreciate you. We're going to go ahead and get out of here, y'all. Hey, he said, "Where the white women at?"
>> He might be one of those That's what Anderson said.
>> No, that's what Aeron said in the in the in the chat on on Tik Tok. He said, "What a white He probably is that way. Hey, I do apologize that it got really really contentious. Um I'm going to uh we got I I try to control that as much as possible.
>> Who the [ __ ] was that? Who I don't know where that [ __ ] came from.
>> Well, Roish that that Yeah, I I don't know where he came from cuz he he said he wasn't he was a non-believer. I think his whole point was that, you know, it's important what they connect themselves to, but I was going to answer that just like how you was saying that [ __ ] don't [ __ ] matter, bro. Because it's still [ __ ] >> Don't matter. and and then he just he decided to call Lord Taha name. I don't know why he did that for that's that [ __ ] was crazy. Anyway, we're gonna go ahead and get out of here y'all. Y'all remember to follow Black Atheist Rants.
Um stream that album. The album is amazing. Make sure you stream that album. Make sure y'all following Lords.
Uh drop all those gifts for her as well.
We're at 16K likes. I appreciate that y'all. Um this is the end of my religion week. Next week we back on politics and we're going to talk about a whole lot.
We're talk about politics again. But anyway, I appreciate y'all. We're gonna go ahead and get out of here. Love y'all. Everybody say peace.
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