Live w/Deb @OmnivorousReader

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:01]All right, here we are finally.

[00:00:05][laughter] Um, thank you. I see Jeff and David are here. Um, so we were going to start this stream yesterday, but it got delayed because I don't know anything about what I'm doing. Um, I had my uh microphone set up as a speaker so I couldn't hear anything Deb was saying.

[00:00:31]But anyway, Deb, thank you for suggesting this because you're one of my favorite people on book >> and we are reading A Judgment of Dragons by Phyllis Gotautle.

[00:00:47]Um, so, uh, we're also just a reminder that EES is going to be on in an hour, so we will be done way before that. And I'm sure both me and Deb will be hopping on to their chat when we're done. But anyway, Deb, I'll let you go ahead go [clears throat] ahead and start if there's anything you want to say.

[00:01:13]>> Right.

[00:01:14]So, A Judgment of Dragons was the book selected by my lovely viewers for my ABC challenge, Authors Beginning with G. And do you want to introduce it, Jeff? Uh, Rob, because I've just jumped straight in here and taken over and it's your stream.

[00:01:34]>> That's Oh, that's okay.

[00:01:37]only because I'm the test subject for how to do a live stream, which [laughter] I failed at twice, but um >> you succeeded. Here we are.

[00:01:46]>> Uh so this uh I originally thought this was going to be a full novel, but it's actually four nollas with uh but it's episodic, so one leads into the next and the next. But um so basically, we have this uh Galactic Federation. Um they have uh several alien worlds that are part of this federation. Um but they uh they value people with telepathic powers, ESPs as they call them. They're few and far between.

[00:02:24]Um, [snorts] but they use them, it seems, almost the way that Star Trek would use a universal translator where they can go to these other places. They can use them for negotiations, etc. And the Federation ends up on this one planet, which I'm just going to call Planet of the Star Cats. Um, Unrew.

[00:02:46]>> I cannot that. I tried three try times, but I It's beyond me. Yeah, I'm just going to call it the starcat planet. So, this is a volcanic planet. There's not a whole lot of vegetation or anything there, but when they land there, the science team lands there. this one person who is uh ends up being Cring.

[00:03:10]Um, one of these star cats who looks like an evolved version of an Earth leopard, but they have this bright red fur with this black chevron going down. So, they sort of blend in with the volcanic um surroundings.

[00:03:28][snorts and clears throat] And because most the aliens in this world are very alien, um seeing something that is analogous to an Earth leopard. [laughter] Um, one of the scientists has this stray thought that uh, wow, I would like to get this in the lab and dissect it, which immediately a whole bunch of uh, star cats come out, fangs beared, >> [laughter] >> uh, claws out because it turns out that the females of the star cats are all uh, telepaths. So, they picked up on that spot [snorts] immediately. They started negotiating, formed a truce. Um, Cring, the male uh star cat is made like almost like an ambassador or diplomat [cough] to the world. Um, and [clears throat] then um his life mate Pandra is a telepath.

[00:04:32]And because there's so many telepaths there, they they want to Are we sure that Andre Norton didn't write this one?

[00:04:39]No. And it and it's it's presented almost, if you look the cover, almost like it's a comedy or humorous. It's [snorts] not. It plays it straight. Um, [clears throat] >> but they want to set up negotiations with this planet because there's so much uh so many telepaths there uh that they want to be able to use them and bring them into the Galactic Federation. in exchange they're going to provide them with food and teach them agriculture and all these other things. Now another aspect of this is because telepaths are so valued [snorts] uh they make arrangements so that when one of these is going to die they transplant their brain into basically a fishbowl brains in a bottle um that they can still keep them a lot their brain alive so they can use their telepathy when they're traveling out and about. So that's the setup.

[00:05:41][laughter] Now there is one other thing. Uh there is another alien force. It's not part of the Federation.

[00:05:50]The Q I'm going to call them the Q the Q continuum. [laughter] The >> well they're called QDI QI but you might as well call them Q because I found them just as annoying as I found Q in Star Trek.

[00:06:06]>> Yes. And I wondered especially towards the end of this which we'll get to later whether I don't know whether they um the next generation saw this because they seemed a lot of a lot of ways the whole community continuum seemed very much like the Q continuum and Star Trek and especially with Q the the one that we're used to. Um, >> but anyway, they have um they're sort of like energy beings, but they can take on different forms. Um, and they also have the ability to time travel, which they create these time vortexes to go and shape worlds to suit them. But they have made a truce with the Galactic Federation um that any place where they put one of these time vortexes, they'll put out beacons to warn people, you know, so they don't accidentally fall down one.

[00:07:06]Um [clears throat] but uh the the Q and the uh Galactic Federation, they're not enemies, they're not friends. uh they just sort of do their own thing and let each other uh go about their own business.

[00:07:25]So that takes us to the first story in this u which is uh just want to say to everyone I deeply apologize I have a cold as you can tell this is the coughing channel [cough] um and about the setup Rob everything you've said is entirely true but the way that got writes it you don't get it straight away you go straight into short story so you have an info dump in the actual story. You get these tiny little shells of information all the way through that.

[00:08:01]>> Yeah.

[00:08:02]>> The whole setup is good, but you don't actually, I think, know all of it even right up until the end of the last story, which I really admire.

[00:08:10]>> Yes.

[00:08:11]>> Yes. Um, we get the Yeah, we don't we definitely don't know about the continuum yet or the what I'm calling the continuum. And [snorts] we do get a [clears throat] mention early on, well once they go through the vortex about the community and their ability to do space vortexes. Um, [snorts] oh constant, it's called a judgment of dragons by Phyllis Gotautly. Um [cough] so uh so in the first story they're headed towards earth which they call soul three um pras the females head there and I think they're there to well we'll find out in the second story but they're heading back there. Uh they've given them a spaceship to travel around with along with one of these uh human brains in a bottle called Espinosa.

[00:09:12]Um and when they're getting ready to descend into Earth, they fall through one of these time vortexes which had no beacons warning them that it was there. And [clears throat] they end up back in I believe it's the early 1800s in I think I think um one interview estimated it was 1812. It was around the time of Alexander II.

[00:09:40]>> Okay.

[00:09:41]>> And you can actually if you know a lot of about that period of Poland, you can actually pinpoint the time and space very clearly from the internal evidence, which I can't. I had to Google.

[00:09:53]>> Okay, that's good.

[00:09:54][clears throat and laughter] Yeah.

[00:09:56]Um yeah, so they they end up here. Um, their assumption is because they fell through a vi time vortex and because there was no beacon that one of these Q had to be here causing this and that they must be some sort of renegade because the treaty would have had a beacon out there if they had done so.

[00:10:22]And in order to get back, they're going to need to find this guy because this guy's the only one that can get them back to their own time.

[00:10:30]>> Yeah.

[00:10:31]and we start getting so this is this is one of the things about the writing style.

[00:10:39][snorts] This is a part that I both love and also had problems with in the first story [snorts] is that Gotib does a great job of showing you what it would be like to be a telepath.

[00:10:54]she you get these flashes and images and sometimes they're sentence fragments, sometimes they're runon sentences because that's the way people think. Um, and you get them from multiple different people. So, you don't always get dialogue tags. You might get multiple different people having a conversation that she's hearing inside her head and that she's communicating back with them with. [snorts] And I love that for 75% of these stories. [laughter] Yeah.

[00:11:24]this story. We're in a Jewish settlement of about 300 people in Poland.

[00:11:30]>> Yep. And I think I I agree with you. I like the way the S or ESP or SS was established. And in this first story, which as we're you're about to say has problems for the majority of readers, but one of the really good things about this one, I thought was the way Gotib established how it what it meant to be an ESP. Yes.

[00:11:53]>> Who was just learning. She isn't that experienced outside her own world, but she has very little experience with actual humans. So, we've got the ESP being learned. We've got Espinosa, the brain in the can. Much like Macaffrey, the ship who sung, may I point out?

[00:12:08]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:12:08]>> And Espinosa provides this running commentary of things that the star cats would not know or understand.

[00:12:18]And because they're learning about humanity by putting it back in the 1800s in a specific type of time and community that most people aren't going to be that familiar with. We got they got to learn about humanity while humanity us the readers got to learn about a time and era we didn't know. So there was no none of that boredom that you can get in some ESP or establishing a new alien stories where you the reader know too much about what they're learning and the author is stuck with trying to either info dump or find another way of not boring the reader. But that was never a problem in this book. There were other problems. So >> yeah no I I agree. I think I think the way that she displayed ESP in this [snorts] was sort of brilliant. Even though it put a barrier between me and the immersion in this first story, that's sort of what it would be like.

[00:13:14]Because if you think, oh, it's like in a lot of other science fiction, we've had, you know, telepaths who are used for universal translators with aliens. But it really wouldn't be that easy because as this story pointed out to me, even a culture that I'm a human, but I didn't live in the 1850s or in Poland. So [snorts] having these uh thoughts where you have um particular religious ceremonies that I'm not familiar with the names of or garments that I'm not familiar [clears throat] with the names of and having the person would be thinking in those terms but that doesn't really translate to something that I can immerse myself or imagine. And so that's what it would be like if you were a telepath going to an alien civilization hearing their thoughts. Language doesn't necessarily work in the way where you automatically know everything they're thinking. You're still, >> you know, you still have this barrier even then.

[00:14:17]>> Um you might be able to sense whether they're friend or foe or they mean you harm or not, but trying to pick out all the particulars of that society would be much more difficult. And so I really appreciated that writing style of showing us what it would be like, but at the same time it also kept me from immersing myself into like there were paragraphs where I just like I don't know what's being said here. Um, but [clears throat] I sort of get the gist of what's going on. So, [snorts] >> I think like like I like I was saying to you earlier, Rob, if you're reading a book that was written in the 1800s, they thought it was um civilized to add lots of Italian, German, French, and Latin, and the modern reader struggles with that. I think a modern reader that doesn't know Yiddish, which I don't um and doesn't know too much about that particular portion of um European Jew Jewish life. I think that going to struggle with this book uh that story because I did think I knew quite a bit about it, but even I struggled at times.

[00:15:27]Overall, I think I did better than you.

[00:15:30]I knew a lot of the terms.

[00:15:31]>> Yeah. Um, but I also did wonder I while I was reading it and before I'd talked to anyone about it, I thought this is going to be a struggle for a lot of people to read this because it is so alien and it's not the aliens that are alien, it's the humans.

[00:15:48]>> Yeah.

[00:15:48]>> And I did wonder also if Gotlib was making a bit of a bow so to historical Yiddish comics because I fell down this rabbit hole years ago. Um, and some of the very early science fiction and comics were written in Yiddish in the late 19th century.

[00:16:06]So, you've got this whole background of alien. And I wondered if there was a nod in there. I'm not sure, but there might have been. So, >> oh, sorry, just to answer Jeff's question, uh, yes, the, uh, our heroine is a telepathic starcat. Yes. Okay.

[00:16:23][laughter] Um, Prandra is the female and her life mate Cring is the male and most of this is [snorts] sort of through Pandra's viewpoint. So, we're seeing the story told through these telepathic images that she's getting from the people around her and conversations that she's having. She can send and receive. Um, and some of these telepaths can actually implant, as we'll find out in this story, implant thoughts into other people's minds and have them think that they're thinking something on their own when um, one of these Q is actually stirring up trouble. [snorts] >> Yeah.

[00:17:06]>> And I want to emphasize what you said.

[00:17:10]When people on my channel were voting for or against me reading this book, a couple of people voted against it purely because it fills itself as a star cat and a rabbi tale with dragons and that ticks every quirky zany box in the book.

[00:17:30]And I I'm fairly certain that this was a publisher decision, not something that the author was trying to convey because this is not zany. This is very >> and and yeah, I I feel like the um the person who wrote the copy for that looked at the cover art first and then wrote the copy and didn't read the book.

[00:17:50]Um because I wouldn't even call it a Star Cat and Rabbi tell. I mean, the rabbi appears in the first episode.

[00:17:56]>> Yeah.

[00:17:57]>> But then he's he's he's not part of the story as far as the ongoing story.

[00:18:02]>> Yeah.

[00:18:02]>> And um the dragon is questionable.

[00:18:06][laughter] The dragon spoiler. A book about jud a judgment of dragons with no dragons. How did that happen? Anyway, um first first story that we've just been discussing is called son of the morning.

[00:18:21]Um, and in conclusion, the rabbi who does become a central character gets sucked into this bubble vortex that Q has created [clears throat] with the star cats to create a resolution to the whole thing. It's a very nice ending. It's a very neat story. It's not zany. Um, it's got some great alien action and some great historical action. So, I really enjoyed that one. I think I gave that one five stars actually.

[00:18:53][snorts] >> So that one that one I enjoyed the concept and the plot and I enjoyed the characters. I loved Panda and Crang and Espinosa.

[00:19:03]We'll talk about in the next story. But [laughter] um [snorts] I love those characters and I love the idea of how this was coming together. There was less immersion for me into the world.

[00:19:19]Um, but again, that's a me problem, not a not the writer did a fantastic job.

[00:19:26]It's just, like I said, there's a separation between me and fully immersion, but I did enjoy it. Um, >> actually, the second story is called The King's Dogs, and that was the one where I struggled with immersion.

[00:19:40]>> Oh, really?

[00:19:41]because there's that feeling of alienation. And so she's talking about, as many people who write aliens do, they talk about what it means to be human.

[00:19:55]And she does that throughout the book because our giant cats are clearly human, though they're not human.

[00:20:01]>> Yeah.

[00:20:01]>> And the reactions to them in that book.

[00:20:04]And that kept jolting me out. It was also the most like a murder mystery. But Rob, do you want to describe it?

[00:20:11]Yeah. So, um, so the end of the first story, we we get them, they get back out into, um, where they're supposed to be going and they land in their proper time on Earth, Soul 3, where uh, Panda is going to in this city, Panda is there to um, have her evaluated and be certified. there. Uh, Espinosa has uh put her up to be uh certified and tested for a level one telepath, which is the the top level of telepath. Um [snorts] and in this city there is um a place where the telepaths stay that has sort of an electronic field they call whitewalling that allows the telepath not to constantly being bombarded by everybody's thoughts and also allows the other people in the city not to have to worry about telepaths reading every thought that they have. Um, [snorts] and then like you said, the second one is a uh straight up murder mystery. Um, I don't know how much we want to spoil, but somebody dies. [laughter] Um, >> well, actually, a few people die. But >> yes, >> what what what I liked about it is it's one of those murder mysteries where you've got a huge number of suspects.

[00:21:37]Only most of them are alien species.

[00:21:40]Yes. So there's um the commendi the Q is absent from this one but you've got Wyth who is a yearly and appears in the next story and then you've got about half a dozen other aliens most of whom I can't pronounce.

[00:21:56]>> Yes.

[00:21:58]>> The Lert. I don't know. I don't know.

[00:22:03]>> Yes.

[00:22:03]>> Yeah. Oh, they're the ones that make these elaborate shells and live inside them like a >> like a foreigniferin would. What I will say here is coming from a biology background, Gotlib spends a lot of time creating species that are biologically distinct and interesting. So, I really appreciated that almost zoological background she has.

[00:22:28]>> Yeah. And and this is one of the things I did like especially about this story is we finally starting to get a call back to why those original scientists were so surprised to see a leopard-like alien. Um the aliens in this world have a completely different evolutionary uh path. They are nothing like human analoges or animal analoges for the most part. So, um, the aliens are very alien and I really enjoyed that part of it.

[00:23:02]Um, again, I think this is one of the things why, um, why I take off partial ports when I'm talking about immersion is the thing that I love about these stories is the fact that we're inside this telepath mind and see things through that point of view. M >> but also just warning if you're somebody who's really into world building and details of world building that suffers from that. So like we know that there's a building of telepaths where they stay.

[00:23:40]We know there's a park where children play outside. We know there's maybe a zoo or at least a cage with a tiger in it. But as far as any sort of details of what things actually look like, that's left up to you and your imagination to fill in those details of what's these rooms look like, this building look like, what this park looks like, which I'm okay with. For people who are really want those details in a story, you're going to have to give some of that up in order to get more of the emotional and thought processes that are going on because that's really how these stories are told.

[00:24:21]>> You know, I never even noticed that until you said it. I do remember thinking this this is the story for people who love aliens. I know there's some out people out there.

[00:24:30]>> Science fiction for them is all about the aliens. Well, this book, The King's Dogs, is absolutely your alien go-to.

[00:24:38]But I actually enjoyed the world building, and I guess I hadn't noticed that there wasn't much actual descriptiveness happening, >> I guess.

[00:24:47]>> And and I don't and I don't mind that because I think most of us who read a lot, we have our own imagination. So, as long as you're willing to bring yourself into the story and fill in those gaps, which usually most people will anyway with something familiar or something that they invent themselves. So, I don't think most people will have a problem with it. But, if you're somebody who really likes detailed descriptions of world building and things like that, you're not going to get that here. However, you will get um pretty detailed descriptions of aliens.

[00:25:24]So, if you're into that, >> you will actually love this. I love this story. Um, [snorts] >> uh, so yeah, it was, and that's the other thing you're talking about it being more like a murder mystery. That's the other thing I like about these stories is [snorts] they're not four stories that have similar uh background bases for like like um the first one was sort of historical and almost like this rabbi thought that he was talking to demons and and straight up time travel sci-fi story. This one was very much a murder mystery. The next one we'll go into is more like a episode of Mission Impossible. the uh >> it's it's you get in a variety of a kind of story, but yet they're all filtered through this uh telepathic ESP version, which again, if you're somebody who likes pros that is just straightforward, no no tricks involved, you might struggle with this a little bit. But if you're willing to meet the writer part way and just really enjoy a different kind of pros, then you'll love this.

[00:26:41]>> Also, if you enjoy uh stories that are critique of humankind and some of our weirdnesses and attitudes, oh yeah, I would say that in a different way, every one of these four stories is critiquing humanity. Whether it's our attitudes to the other, which is a stream throughout because our main protagonists are not human, or our attitudes towards consumerism. That's a profit-based mentality runs throughout this because it talks about the Galactic Federation being willing to assist the Starcat planet because it's got Espers and they want ESP. And so they're giving them this ship for to use for as long as they like. They're giving them an esp.

[00:27:27]That's Espininoza, though he only appears in two stories. Um, but then in the next one, which is called Nebuchadnezzar, um, they go to a planet that offers nothing to the Galactic Federation. And that planet has basically been completely deserted even though it's slowly being killed off by drug dealers.

[00:27:47]Yes.

[00:27:47]>> Um, so you've got that strong critique about what a galactic federation or a government can be for good or bad with very little judgment in there. I like that, too.

[00:27:59]>> Yeah. Yeah. It was um it was very much a a quid proquo uh on the Galactic Federation. It's like, yeah, we'll give you Starcat Planet. We'll get to that in the last story. food and all these other things, but we want your we want your telepaths.

[00:28:18]And the third story, Nebuchadnezzar, um that was >> I can't pronounce any of the names.

[00:28:27]>> I think you just >> the the eur the ural. Um [clears throat] yeah, they mentioned in the second story, >> huh?

[00:28:38]>> Yeah, it could be.

[00:28:39]>> I don't know. Um but yeah, that was he appeared in the second story. Um was sort of making a plea to the Galactic Federation because his planet was being killed off.

[00:28:53]So in that third story, these yearly um who inhabit this planet, they lay these eggs and I think it's the eggs that are being harvested for uh psychotropic drugs by drug smugglers. Not exactly.

[00:29:10]So, um, the yearly live in their version of an ocean and hey, it's a marine creature. I'm there for it.

[00:29:17]>> Love that part. The way they're described is kind of I imagined it as a huge jugia flatworm. And what it does is it lives off these eggs that are laid in huge clutches. So, that's uh our selected reproduction, huge numbers of eggs, only one or two will survive. They live off those. But those creatures that live the eggs need to live off grain. Now, at some point when the world was first being investigated, a few people ate grain and got high and that was how it was.

[00:29:51]>> So, the smugglers have moved in. The Galactic Federation isn't protecting the planet at all. The smugglers have taken over the area and they are protecting the grain harvests. Though the animals that live on the grain who fly have to move so far away that they can't lay their eggs in the ocean anymore and the y yearly are essentially starving to death because they can't leave the ocean go through the dry land to the swamps where these eggs are being laid. So, it's this complex >> convoluted >> situation which I've got to say this one I feel the plot was o overly convoluted. There were too many tricky things in this one.

[00:30:36]Um, Kringa Cringa, is that how you pronounce his name? Takes a bit more of a lead over Prandra. Prandra contacts a new alien species that we haven't met before. Kagodi, which is like this massive Oh, maybe that's the dragon.

[00:30:56]I thought it was a commote. Yeah, lizard like creature. But the plot to get these drug dealers off the planet is so convoluted. I couldn't always follow it even when it was completed. But yeah, you >> Yeah, it was it was um it was definitely like a uh Yeah, it was a bit convoluted because we've one of the things I because I have a cat um was this idea that uh cats aren't good with uh plans or time the way that we think of it.

[00:31:31]They live in the now and they address problems as they come up.

[00:31:36]And yet at the end of the story, it sort of contradicted that a little bit because it turns out that all of this was a plan to gather up these smugglers into one ship, lock the doors, and send them off uh to be tried. So that >> I was surprised by that. The conclusion really bewildered me. I knew they were going to win somehow, but the fact that they'd managed to put together that plan, even though at one point, Pandra, I think it's in this story, says to the Kagodi, you are sharing your thoughts with us.

[00:32:12]So, we're sharing the our information with us, but you're sharing your brain so that we can use it for planning. Do you remember that?

[00:32:20]>> Yeah. Um, [snorts] yeah. So, the the baddest of the smugglers has evidently captured this other creature. I'm not going to try and pronounce their names [snorts] and is sort of forcing it to use its ESP for its own will.

[00:32:42]Um but yeah, the [clears throat] like you said the the the plot is overconvoluted because they have this remote for their ship.

[00:32:55]The bad guys want their ship so they can use it for smuggling. [snorts] Um so they hide the remote with the yearly who then sends it to another yearly not to tell them the location. send it to another so they can eventually hide it so that no ESP will be able to find it.

[00:33:16]But eventually >> finds it like that.

[00:33:19]>> Yeah. But this one that's working being forced to work for them as tortured in to go ahead and just locating it immediately so that they can get the remote. Once they get the remote, the baddest of the bad get into the ship to use it. At which point our star cats lock them in the ship and remotely send it off to be tried.

[00:33:41]Which if your idea is you're trying to get them into the ship to remotely lock it, why would you go through all this other trouble [laughter] has hand them the remote and say, "Yeah, go for it." [laughter] Yeah, >> I mean >> at the end Kringa explains that he wanted both sets of smugglers to be in there at the same time so could send them all off at once. [snorts] >> And I kind of got that, >> but there was an awful lot of running back and forth and the cats were in an awful lot of unnecessary personal danger that I never see saw the port point of.

[00:34:22]And [snorts] while there were some good things in this one, I to be honest, I would have been happy spending my whole story just with the yearly floating around in the ocean because those were my [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. I I did enjoy their part.

[00:34:38]And again, I enjoyed the alien aspect of this. I [snorts] didn't even mind the the smuggler story so much except that like you said it was just a really convoluted plot to get from point A to point B and we've been told over and over again that the starcast really don't do plots and plans that way. So it seemed a little off to me in that. But I still enjoyed everything else about it.

[00:35:12]>> Just the plot fell down a little bit for me.

[00:35:15]>> I loved the world. I loved the aliens that belonged in it.

[00:35:19]>> I didn't mind the idea of alien drugs being harvested and the whole political implications of that.

[00:35:30]>> I just felt that that one sort of mutated a bit out of her control >> when she was writing it. where if you compare it to The Sun of the Morning, that felt very much like a tight story that had been planned and executed step by step with very little excess. This one felt like it had excess, like bits hadn't been totally thought through.

[00:35:51]>> Yeah.

[00:35:52]>> Still really enjoyed it though. I think I gave that one four out of five.

[00:35:56][snorts] >> Yeah.

[00:35:59]Yeah. I uh I think this was probably my Well, I don't know. Um I think this one was probably the number three spot out of the four for me. Like I said, I had the most problem with the first one, but that's totally because I didn't understand and couldn't immerse myself in some of that. But again, I I enjoyed the plot of the first one better than the plot of this one, but I was there for the aliens the [laughter] early.

[00:36:39]I love those guys. So, >> and and I do and I love this one because I got a little more of the dynamic between uh Pandra and Cring and a little more of their relationship which I am 100% for. So >> yeah, Pandra and Cring that the only characters that go all the way through all four stories are excellent characters >> and I love their evolution as well because you actually see them aging over time which you often don't see in interconnected stories. So they've got their own personal evolution. Pandra evolves as an espa develops his tracking skills and his protective skills. But in the last story, you actually see that they've aged from the beginning of the first story. So, they've had their own evolution and journey.

[00:37:36]That was good.

[00:37:42]Okay.

[00:37:43]>> Should we move on the last one?

[00:37:46]>> A judgment of dragons.

[00:37:48]>> Yes.

[00:37:50][snorts] You want to go?

[00:37:56]>> Okay. So, this is the point where we're back on the planet of the star cats. Um they've uh they have um part of the Galactic Federation there. Um this is where they're they're bringing in equipment and livestock shipments and everything else.

[00:38:18]and um Brandon and Crang are there, I think mostly Crank to sort of teach the other star cats how to do agriculture and livestock and to make a sustainable food supply for themselves. [snorts] Um and then we have uh what's named Conir who was in the second story as the security coordinator [snorts] uh makes a reappearance in this story. Um he is the local coordinator, sector coordinator, >> sector coordinator with I think two people on the actual station to take care of the star cats, medical officer and a general sort of stores person I think.

[00:39:06]>> Yes. [snorts] And um there is um something off about the medical officer. [laughter] Yeah, >> that um as uh Cring describes it a little later on, he has no smell [laughter] and um trying sense of smell in the King's [snorts] Dogs where he's trying to nail down who the suspects are. And we realize he's got an extremely evolved sense of smell.

[00:39:44]he can tell who has been in a place at a certain time and even when people are masking their smells, he can tell from external evidence who's there. So, the fact that this medical officer has no smell and is widely despised by all the cats, no matter how much he treats them and takes care of them and their children, that's stands out.

[00:40:07][cough and laughter] >> Sorry.

[00:40:13]>> Okay.

[00:40:15]Sorry, >> this is the coughing channel. Welcome to the coughing channel. [cough] >> So, um along with this, we also have more of the family dynamic of Kring and Pandra.

[00:40:31]Um we get to meet their son and their daughter that they've been away from for I think it was seven years. Um during this time um their daughter is marrying a cat from another tribe [laughter] which there's a lot of waring tribes in this. Um but uh the uh Greg and Brand are trying to make it so that you know we all are going to need to come together and and so uh we have their daughter Emerald and their son who I forget his name. Um >> yeah they had a son.

[00:41:13]>> Yeah. [laughter] Um >> who was a strong empath. Um, >> interestingly what we were saying earlier, the the female star cats are more likely to be espers, but it's mentioned in passing that the occasional male gets it. So, I get I like the way she's sort of hinting at genetic a genetic source to it rather than an a supernatural source to it.

[00:41:40]>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] And on their planet, I think usually the dynamic is the the females use the the u espa to locate prey and then the males take care of the prey. [laughter] Um but uh let's see. Um [clears throat] I'm trying to remember the order of this one because there's a lot going on.

[00:42:08]>> There's a lot happening in it.

[00:42:10]>> Yeah. So, they get back and they're welcomed by their clan and their daughter and son. Um, [snorts] and we find out that Pandra has got a really strange relationship with her mother who is blind from cataracts, lives in a cave, but is an exceptionally powerful Esper.

[00:42:27]Um, and they're settling back in. And I think something, sorry I've taken over this, but I think something that was throughout the book was that the reason that they had gone to soul three to Earth was to learn how to make their planet viable because the star cats have essentially killed off all the larger animals. They they eat meat. They are not omnivorous in any way. They are purely carnivorous. So, since they've killed off most of the larger animals, which are their food, um they're running out of options, which is why the star cats have exchanged a long and potentially quite horrifying life as a brain in a can, providing amps in return for Earth's assistance. So, they've come back with whole crates full of grain, which they're going to plant until you've got a viable um grass system, at which point they will resurrect the cryofenzen herbivores who can then move onto the land and provide an ongoing um [clears throat] habitat in which they can continue to live. That's their overall goal. But the other one that's mentioned, and we haven't mentioned it up to now, is that Crang has been charged with bringing together all the star cats to start to form a coordinated um species rather than all these waring clans that fight each other. He they he wants to force a cooperation.

[00:43:56]And that's why this one becomes so complicated. You've got the daughter Emerald who's married into another clan and he's trying to bring in those other clans to talk with his clan to coordinate it all. So, it gets complicated. Sorry, I totally interrupted and took over there. Go ahead.

[00:44:13]>> You're you're better at this than I am.

[00:44:14]So, please. [laughter] So um then also we have the son who is interested in I think the their clans I think he's their chief I can't remember the title but he's sort of like one of the head honchos of their clan. Um he's interested in his daughter.

[00:44:38]his daughter uh is infertile and in their society this is a big deal of being able to continue the bloodline and all that stuff.

[00:44:52]So, there's this this whole other plotline of he wants to marry her, but then sort of this polyamorous thing of where they're going to go ahead and also have him marry this other woman who has some sort of scar or deformity that so nobody wants her, but he's going to marry her as well so she can bear children. And so, yeah, so there's a lot going on in this last story. Um, and then, uh, we also have a return. Um, he's in disguise, but the cue from the first story [laughter] >> uh, makes a comeback along with a a another cue. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:45:47]Um, so I don't know if we want to go at this point.

[00:45:52]>> I I think there are We talked about spoilers earlier, but I think there are actually a couple of spoilers in there with Q and the Star Cats. And I do hope that someone out there is going to have listened to this and go, "Wow, this was really interesting. It is not quirky.

[00:46:07]There is no quirk. I might be interested in this. There's lots of aliens. There's good plots. There's three mysteries and a really interesting historical one. Um, so maybe if we leave out the Q >> the Q part which will intrigue people.

[00:46:24]>> Okay. So we'll stop there. Something else drastic happens [laughter] >> and hilarity does not ensue regardless.

[00:46:34][laughter] >> There is no hilarity.

[00:46:38]But once again, you've got those really interesting themes of cooperation because throughout all these books, we've got I'm going to say one of the better relationships in science fiction.

[00:46:49]We've got Panda and Crang. They've got a good relationship. They like each other.

[00:46:54]They love each other. They groom each other. They help each other and lift up each other's skills. Um so good relationship there. Um, and in the judgment of dragons and again still with no dragons, which is Did you see a dragon?

[00:47:13]>> No, I did not. And I think somebody on our view tried to say that.

[00:47:19]>> Well, I can't say that without spoiling the very end of this other entity, but was trying to say that was a metaphorical dragon. I was like, okay, what? Okay, you're you're talking now.

[00:47:31]I don't actual dragons with wings and stuff.

[00:47:37]That was the dragon I wanted.

[00:47:39]>> On the cover, a Star Cat and Ryel with dragons. [laughter] >> They did not read this book.

[00:47:46]>> No, they didn't. I didn't. Poor Phyllis Scott. She deserved better.

[00:47:51]>> Yeah.

[00:47:51]>> But apparently there's [clears throat] more books because when I went to ISFDB, apparently this is one of possibly four books. So there's plenty more.

[00:48:01]Maybe >> there's Okay, I just thought there was one other one. You're telling me I have to hunt down another two.

[00:48:09][clears throat] >> Yes, [laughter] Bob. You have to hunt down another two. You have to hunt down multiple so that I can have the two.

[00:48:16]>> Well, well, I do have the second book, um, >> Emperor, Swords, and Pentacles.

[00:48:23]And this is the second book. And now, this one does not follow Kandra and Crang. It follows their daughter Emerald and her lifemate along with Conir. So, we get Conir back in this one along with uh their daughter uh Emerald and her lifemate whose name starts with an R.

[00:48:42]And I I think I'm not sure.

[00:48:45]>> Yeah. Um, and I'm assuming I'm assuming also hilarity does not ensue in this one, but um I'm going I pulled that one off the shelf because I well I don't know that this would be a five-st star book for me. It would definitely be a four. It was definitely good enough that I do definitely want to read the rest of the series. So, um I pulled that off so it can go in my more immediate TBR compared to everything else. And how [snorts] large is that more immediate TBR?

[00:49:18][laughter] >> Well, um I only have I only have three or four books pulled right now. So, I haven't planned any further than that. I'm waiting for your viewers to pick the next book for you and then we'll [laughter] decide what I read.

[00:49:35]>> Well, well, that tight might take a while. I'm hoping that I've got a couple of buddy reads in May. I'm reading Tenner Lee's the Unicorn series as you know at the moment. Uh but after that I've got another Tenner Lee that I might be reading Red's Blood with Chris and I might possibly be reading Nifty the Lean with Wheel of Genre if we can line up dates. So it might be a while before I reach H. I'm going to be reading an author beginning with H next. [snorts] >> Right now somebody mentioned is this an Andre Norton novel. I am currently about well part of the way through reading um Yankee Privateeer which is has no cats in it. This is Andre Norton's sort of piratey um privateeer technically but for all all purposes piratey novel which has been fantastic. Um, and then also because of Deb, who recently did a couple of videos on Robera Gillis, who I did not know that I have a book by Robera Gellis that she wrote under the Max Daniels name for her science fiction. [snorts] So, I have the Space Guardians and >> and I am so, so jealous. I've never found or seen any of Robera Gillis's science fiction. I think she's only got two.

[00:51:02]>> Yeah, there's there's I believe there's three of them. Two of them under Max Daniels and one I think is under Verigelis. I looked it up after watching your video. I have seen this book in bookstores plenty of times. And I promise you that the next time I see it, it will be going in next year this year's Christmas box for you. I'm sure that I will see that again. Um, I'm looking for the other two right now. Um, [clears throat] >> I can't wait what you say of it.

[00:51:35]>> Yeah.

[00:51:36]>> So, [snorts] uh, so you, if I find it, you're getting it regardless of whether it's good or bad, just so you know. So, [laughter] >> but honestly, Roberto Gillis is one of those authors like we both agree on Tanith Lee, we both agree on Terry Pratchett. Gillis is one of those for me there's just something about that writing. I think if she wrote down a shopping list, I would read it with enjoyment. She's just >> Yeah, >> she's just got that zing.

[00:52:02]>> Yeah, [snorts] I'm looking forward to checking out more of her books. Um I I wasn't aware of the name of her real name before. I'd seen the Max Daniels name several times when I get there, but it's usually the same book that I always see in bookstores of Max Daniels, but [snorts] I will be on the lookout for other subvers because you have not stirred me wrong. There are hundreds of books in here that are directly because of you. I >> I I will take that. That that is I'm spreading books to the universe. How good is that?

[00:52:35]>> Yeah.

[00:52:35]>> When I actually when I started my channel, the only thing I was really hoping for is to find someone inspired by my reading and what I thought of the books to go out and read a book. That was the mult that was the apex of my hopes and considerations. So, I'm going well.

[00:52:52]hundreds of books.

[00:52:53]>> Oh, yeah. I mean, um, uh, I had I obviously knew of him, but I had never read a Rogers Lazy before you.

[00:53:03]>> I now own every Rogers Lazy book ever written, every short story.

[00:53:07]>> Oh, how did you do that? Even I don't.

[00:53:11]Well done.

[00:53:13]>> Uh, same thing with Jack Vance. I knew of him. I had never read his stories.

[00:53:17]And then I read Dying Earth and I was like, "Okay, now I need to know have everything he's ever written."

[00:53:23][laughter] And of course, the one person who I had not heard of was EC Tub, or at least I didn't recognize the name. I have his um uh Cap Kennedy books that he wrote under a pseudonym, and I also have two of the Space 1999 TV tie-in books that he wrote.

[00:53:44]>> Yeah. But I had never paid attention to the name on it because it was a TV tie-in book and I didn't recognize it.

[00:53:49]>> And [snorts] then I remember way back early on in your channel, you was talking the first time you were talking about the Dumerous books.

[00:53:56]>> I thought that that sounds a I got really lucky there. So I had never seen him before and I went to um Bookman here in Phoenix and I saw two uh Dumerous books.

[00:54:12]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:12]>> And I put him in my cart. And then one of the people that worked there comes around the corner. He goes, "Oh, are you interested?" And I go, "Yeah." And he pulls out a cart and he says, "We just got a bunch in." And he had every dumerous book except for three.

[00:54:27]And so in one go and then I just amazing.

[00:54:33]>> Yeah. As like [snorts] Deb has put something in the universe that says I need to own all these and and I have not regretted it. I've enjoyed all of them that I've read so far.

[00:54:43]>> I'm so glad they've gone to a good home.

[00:54:45]But I I'm also a little I think I bought my first one in my early teens and I'm pretty sure that was the first one, Winds of Gath. Uh but I only got the last couple in the series just a few years [laughter] ago. It's taken me that long. So, >> well, those last ones are hard to find, but I I'm a determined person. Once I once I fall in love with an author, I will I will find everything that they have. EC Tub deserves it. I do think his Earl Demerous saga is the best, but I've read some of his other books and other stories as [snorts] well, and they're all solid. He was a he was a solid writer.

[00:55:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. The Cap Kennedy books are much more pulpy in the way the dialogue and everything else is presented. But he was asked to do that. They asked him, "We want you to write in the vein of Captain Future." And he nailed that. I mean, but his plots are a little more intricate and more enjoyable, I think, than the Captain Future ones.

[00:55:43]>> Right. Is there anything we may haven't said? Oh, yes. I haven't said cover art is by Tom Kid. I'm 99% certain. I don't think it's credited on the actual book.

[00:55:55]Yeah. Why can't I get the zigzag right?

[00:55:57]There we go.

[00:55:59]Um, and it is good artwork, but it's the artwork, I think, of someone who hasn't actually read the book, isn't sure what it's about, and possibly only ever saw that description given them by the publishers. So, the use of color is excellent. I really think they've done a great job for a book that isn't this book. Sorry, Tom, kid, you're great artist. [snorts] Nothing on you.

[00:56:28]The other thing I'd like to mention is Phyllis Scotlet because we didn't talk about her much. She was a Canadian author and poet.

[00:56:37]She didn't have an enormous repertoire of books. If you go and check it out online, she had a few poetry collections. She had a few science fiction stories. The cats she obviously liked um and she had a few others. But it seems to me that a lot of people aren't aware that there was a Canadian um award called the Sunburst Award for many years. I think it just stopped not that long before co and Sunburst award was named after her burst which is the first book by her that I've ever read.

[00:57:09]That's an award-winning book. At one stage, people were actually being assigned that to read in school. Uh but these days I find not too many people have heard of it. So, anyone who watches this, if you haven't heard of it and you want to read a really fascinating nuclear disaster book with far more social implications, it's not it's not dystopian at all because it happens in one small contained space. But the social implications of it are enormous and it's one of the most innovative investigations of ESP and what it can and can't mean. So I think I think that it's a great book. I'd love to see more people reading that one. Yes, that's the one.

[00:57:56]>> Shall I show you?

[00:57:58]>> Oh wow. You should hang on. Let me see if I can find mine. Not that will help you very much. It's not in good condition.

[00:58:08][snorts] something beginning with G.

[00:58:15][snorts] >> Okay, bearing in mind this is not my first copy of Starburst. The first copy of Starburst completely and utterly fell apart as this one is probably going to do imminently. It was secondhand. The scribbles and so forth are not my fault, but I'm reading it anyway over and over because it's really good.

[00:58:37]And then I have one other is by her. Oh Master Caliban, >> which I also have not read yet, but um >> that's not a caton, is it?

[00:58:49]>> No. Um I was looking to see when I was pulling the other one out to see if it was, but no. [snorts] All right.

[00:58:57]>> Okay.

[00:58:58]>> I think uh Ebes is starting in one minute. [laughter] So [snorts] >> So we better go and watch ES. Yes, >> I just thank you to everyone who voted on my ABC challenge. Phantom 8832, Rob from Lspace, um, Feronia, Felix, Maywini, Mayoi, and Wter 13 all voted for this book. You are the people who are responsible for me having read it and apparently for Rob having read it.

[00:59:27]>> Yes. and and thank you for suggesting this. Um, despite my uh technical difficulties, [laughter] I feel like I feel like I need >> I feel like I need to have Jake on standby dial so he can tell me how to get the VCR to quit flashing 12:00, [laughter] but but we got there finally. So, >> we did.

[00:59:52]>> Thank you very much, Rob, for doing all the hard lifting, too.

[00:59:55]>> Thank you. and we will definitely be doing this again. Thank you everybody.

[01:00:00]Sorry I have not figured out how to do comments yet, but I am looking at you.

[01:00:04]Thanks to all of you and we will see you next time.

[01:00:08]>> Bye. Sorry I couldn't see the comments.

[01:00:11][laughter]