Free speech and false speech laws: The delicate balance between rights and abuseof State power.

本站添加: 2026-05-20

[00:00:23]And it's 16 months 16 arrest. That is the headline around the second stanza of President John Rammani Mahama and it's all borders on free speech and the big question is looking at the numbers is free speech under siege at the moment and in fact if you look at the analysis that has been done so far comparing what happened within the 8-year period of the former administration where about 12 people were arrested on the back of the article 208. This time around within just a period of 16 months we've had 16 arrests. That should tell you about that's about one arrest per month. But out of this figure the NPP is on the the wrong target. I mean it's on the the the losing target where or the losing end of the curve where they believe that 14 at least 14 are either MP members or sympathizers of the party and that is why they have actually petitioned the international community and they are asking for a number of things because if you look at the smart wall you see how tall the list is and I can tell you that this has happened only in 16 months. where top persons within the MPP have also been arrested. If you look at the list so far on top of the list isqwami buff popularly known as a Bron DC and I will tell you you know an interesting number about the number of times this gentleman you see on top of the list how many times he's been arrested within this period and even in previous periods but the list continues you talk about joining Tim for top brass of the party also arrested and poor Adamry uh Dan Sir Obama and the number of people who have been arrested within this uh 16-month period and if you look at the charge sheet there is one uh you know intersection point and that is all of them have been charged on the back of either article 207 or 208 and that is why you know lawyers like Sam and have actually written and said that well you are abusing that law and So you have to scrap it. That law must go. It's outdated. Political uh you know uh politicians are beginning to use that law uh to actually bring down free speech because if you look at this you know talist it's not just uh politicians who are involved in the mix. There are content creators on social media who whom I mean some of whom have been picked for making comments uh which many have said that did not really warrant the nature through which they were arrested. If you look at how all the arrests have been uh in fact in some occasions most of them had to be picked from places like a juso um I mean different regions and have been brought to a cry and the big question is if it is indeed about just the law and not about politics. Why will you arrest somebody possibly somewhere in the Bono or Bono east region or maybe the western region that has to fix the person to Ara for what purpose? And many have made a point about wasting taxpayers money to do that. But tonight on the show, we will sit with those who know this issue, the two political parties and the CSO to actually find solutions and answers to why I mean in fact why this has become a recurrent you know issue is currently um you know looking like you do me I do you situation and that is what we experiencing and I watched a pause this afternoon and an interview between uh you know tanko computer and what you actually you know the inference you actually get from that interaction in the afternoon was more or less like you do me I do you did this so I have to do that tonight what will be the answers what questions are being you know posed to them seen will also join me some independent actors will join for this particular conversation but I want us to look at you know this particular gentleman the reason why he is actually the centroidid of this whole distribution is is the fact that if you look at the frequency table, he is on top. And if you look at his recent comment that has landed him in custody and in fact per what we know, he's he's he's actually been remanded in custody.

[00:05:00]He made a comment about, you know, the judiciary and making a comment that he felt a certain judge was being too political. A certain judge was wearing a sack and could not really see through the lenses of the constitution.

[00:05:18]This did not all go well and he was picked up currently remanded and the response from government is that well look at this statement. This is not the directive of government that arrest him.

[00:05:30]He spoke against the judiciary and he's been arrested and that is that has been the argument of government that don't just lump everything and say that we are arresting politicians. If you look at some of these statements and why persons like him have been arrested, it's not simply because of a directive from government but just because they said certain things that have landed them in trouble. Not just him. If you look at the arrest of Baba Amando uh who also made this allegation allegedly publishing this a char allegedly publishing digital you know altered image of President Mahama and other public officials on Facebook to cause fear and panic. he was also picked up and this has been some of the uh I mean if you look at the list top people that the NP actually referenced in their petition to the international community.

[00:06:29]I mean if you look at some of the allegations right where uh I mean some members were even picked for saying that Doomsaw is back and they were picked up and and the questions are being asked if somebody posts on social media that Doomsaw is back does it warrant that the person had to be arrested is there something that the security forces knew that we did not know when we sit down we try and interrogate some of these questions but when the MP went to the diplomatic community or the international community to actually present their petition to them. They raise a number of issues and they are not happy with the Rambo style that is being you know meed out to some of their members in terms of the arrest and that is why they had to petition the international committee because they believe that in our democracy they play an integral role and I ask my guests why not petition shr why not petition the C why not petition the police why the international community and in fact how significant are today in terms of trying to find solution to this issue. Is it that they've lost confidence in some of these independent institutions that I mentioned? There are also calls and criticism that CSO they have been very quiet. They will join us tonight and we'll ask them what has been their position as far as the 16 arrest in 16 months of the president's administration is concerned. But if you look at the the broader picture and I was painting a point about how this law has been used in this whole equation and we've had you know some independent lawyers like something saying that you need we need to let this law go because it's not serving uh any purpose now. It is only being used uh by politicians to actually uh you know try and bring down free speech arresting people based on this law and this law he believes that has leave a purpose and must go but in terms of that law what does it really say and why has it become the law that has be I mean become the go-to uh you know article or law that most of these people who have been arrested are being charged based on uh you know the letter and spirits of this law and that is section 208 of the constitution. It says that publishing false statement likely to cause fear or disturb public peace is a misdemeanor and that has been the law since 1992.

[00:09:08]And if you track it, what you realize is that almost every uh you know head of states or what should you say president or administration in fact has actually used this law one way or the other in trying to clamp down on what they call uh you know publication of false news. But there are those who say that well you have to let this law go. And in fact that is that is why we'll be analyzing this law as well and the I mean the electronic communications act of 2008. This has also given uh you know a certain level of platform to to actually uh you know uh uh prosecute people especially when it comes to publishing misinformation or misleading uh information that they believe could disrupt or could cause emergency and that is one of the law also being used in tandem uh with the session you know 208 of the constitution and so when we sit when I sit down with my guest I'll ask them questions about this law whether they feel it is time to let it go. And even if it even if it goes, what will be the alternative?

[00:10:10]Because we need to, you know, keep the space neat, keep the space uh, you know, devoid of any form of misinformation and and disinformation that could actually lead uh to disturbance in the country.

[00:10:23]But you're looking at what the MP um what the MP wants the international community to do for them. You said well we are not happy with the numbers at the moment and so we want you to monitor the developments monitor open your eyes there's a lot happening in the space that we need you to speak on we need you to engage governments on what is happening to our members especially looking at the Rambo style approach of the arrest and also encourage neutral uh neutrality of state institutions and this is in fact what the NPP to uh the uh uh you know the international community if you actually analyze or summarize it that is what they really want the international community to do but this has been the response from from governments and I told you about how they've responded to some of the arrest saying that if you look at somebody uh I mean like Abra DC and his comments this was not a directive from from government to say go and arrest Abra but he spoke against the judiciary and that has landed him in trouble. that in fact if you look at all the you know the sentiment and the comments around free speech many will say that well if President Mahama has done 16 or I should say there's been about 16 arrests under the second stanza of President Mahama in 16 months then it should reflect uh in the you know Ghana I mean press freedom rankings or or or score but if you look at the score in fact this is the time that we are seeing a spike in terms of an improvement and you can see it over there where we almost plateaued after dropping significantly from 2022 from 78.6 six to about 65.9 losing significant percentage point even with this period where everybody is saying that free speech is under siege you know make sure you scrub the section 208 law this is even the period where the freedom uh I mean the press freedom index is actually moving up but many will say that maybe this hasn't really captured what is happening this year and maybe if you compare what happened last year could be the reason why we are still seeing a spike. But this year for the fact that the MPP has actually gone to the international community shows that it has reached its maximum and we may possibly see it reflect in the previous ranking but almost everything has improved. If you look at even our rank as of 2025 we're about uh I mean 50 52nd right now we are talking about 39th in 2026.

[00:13:15]So what is the point? If free speech is actually indeed under siege and people cannot really express themselves, why are we not feeling it? Why is the impact not being felt in the press freedom index and also in our rank? Why are we even you know being ranked better even in this period where almost everybody is saying that well we believe that there is I mean freedom of speech is under threat and then also there's been a lot of comments about how the judiciary at this moment in time especially after the removal of the chief justice has become you know uh you know politically colored but in fact if you look at um I mean the Mo Ibraim index of judiciary. It paints a different picture especially compared to the press freedom where this shows you that the last time the the ranking came in 2023 our score is around 66.9 and if you watch it just like the corruption perception index this has actually plateaued from 2018 to 2023 and we've not seen any significant improvement since that period and many have said that if you look at the judiciary and some of the development in the case could be the reason why we are scoring this abysmal performance. We're having this abysmal performance as far as the Mo Ibrahim index is concerned. But tonight there's a lot to actually chew on. Uh we're not just going to discuss you know freedom of speech but we will discuss the constitution. We'll discuss session 208 and that is the very tough question whether it is time for it to go. We are still having uh discussions around uh the constitutional review. I understand that they're done. They send their report to the president. Felix has given an update that government is actually on track to make sure that the recommendations that were made, government to start looking at it has been forwarded to the AG. But even as we call for the removal of that section 208 and section 207 possibly, is there a room for us to actually have this discussion? Now, after this short break, my guest will join me. We're going to chew more on the issues that have come so far as far as this is concerned. Free speech and false speech laws. The question is the I mean the delicate balance between rights and abuse of state power. We analyze this after this short break.

[00:15:51]Another week is here on the greatest of all time show. My name is Joe Vanic and tonight TONIGHT WE'RE BRINGING YOU TALENT CONTESTANT NUMBER ONE. LET'S BRING AMERICA.

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[00:24:31]Tonight very packed conversation I have about 1 hour to actually discuss this and those who matter on this particular issue have joined me and since morning we've been having conversations uh about this issue and for me the the numbers uh involve are striking where my senior colleague Samadany writing about how uh the section 208 of our constitution is being abused and he has called uh for it scrapping uh Because if you look at the 16 uh month of President Mouhamama per our tracking, there've been 16 arrests of people and all of them have been charged either on section 207 or section 208. And if you compare this to the entire 8 years of the previous administration where 12 was done, this is a mammoth increase in terms of uh the numbers. But beyond the numbers there are critical issues uh that we need to uh discuss especially when it comes to free speech. When we say free speech, how free is free speech and even is there any boundary and what exactly is the boundary and then also the Rambo style uh you know uh through which some of these members of the MP at least 14 according to the data that they put out have been arrested. what what what what is civil society saying about that especially with calls coming in that civil society have been very quiet as far as these issues are concerned and so we've actually assembled the right guest uh Dr. Kojuna Santes director policy engagement and partnership CDD Ghana he's joined us via Zoom Dr. Tanko Rashid computer deputy national director of elections and it of the NDC he has also joined us he says he's not a national fan but I don't know if he's happy that as won the league si is member one Ghana movement he's joined us via zoom and a bath MP me south he is a Liverpool fan but but nana you are happy that as actually won the league right >> um we didn't stand much chance in in the league this >> you mean Manchester United >> Liverpool >> Liverpool yeah >> and so when um Arsenal will I felt well I think that let's give them a chance after two two decades >> you know I congratulate them >> their supporters are the most patient and tolerant you can find >> and so um well done to us now >> your weight continues do you have hopes that possibly you can win >> the next well well we are preparing next time you see us winning the cup. Of course, we are now in Champions League.

[00:27:18]So, >> but you know, >> was I I we should we should be keen on getting our league >> very active and well patronized.

[00:27:29]>> Yes, very important.

[00:27:31]>> People hide behind the foreign leagues to say that that's the reason why our leagues are not doing well. Other leagues in on the continent are really doing well. even though we have the the four elig >> and and I've seen the kind of money being raised for the black stars. If that kind of money was raised for the local league, I believe that it will be doing far better than it is now. And so we should now be turning attention on how well we can promote our leagues and make make it do better. Great opportunities for the youth.

[00:28:03]>> Exactly. The the league deserves attention. But there's one conversation that tonight deserves more attention. if not more but I mean also an equal attention which is the attack on free speech and I want to start from you. You said you have actually I mean petitioned the international community and you listed a number of things. You believe that free speech is currently under siege and per the data you put out at least 14 of your members have fallen to the section 208207 uh you know provision in the constitution and you've spoken about the rumble style uh you know arrest and then also the fact that some people have to be hooked as far back as I mean as far from some from other places to Ara just to be detained >> um these are facts which are already known to everybody. They are not facts that we have made up.

[00:28:57]>> Um the incidents the the frequency of the arrest is mindboggling and everybody's aware of it. It is not a partisan position that we have taken. It is a concerning human rights abuse >> that all of you journalists are even worried. In fact, we are not in isolation when it comes to this except that we seem to be suffering more. The Ghana Journalist Association not long ago held a press conference complaining about the abuse, the abuse of law enforcement agents and this government in particular, right? and law enforcement agency and that is government right in the enforcement of section 70 section is it section 76 of the communications act and then section 208 of act 29 >> right so the Ghana journalist association has complained except that we are suffering more and we are adding our voice to it and and and and trumpeting it that look This is not the Ghana we know. In fact, you mentioned Samson's statistics and Samson Samson has done some editorial on it. And so we are not the only persons complaining. If we were the only persons complaining, then you'd have said, "Wow, these people, they are just being doing politics as usual." But it is obvious.

[00:30:28]It is a matter of public notoriety. It is something that you can't ignore. The question is how long is this going to go on? How long? There's a real issue and it's so concerning.

[00:30:43]You cannot keep your eye off it. Why?

[00:30:46]What am I saying? What is the issue my brother? Let the law enforcement agencies air >> and then we say that it is the law enforcement agents under the government who are just abusing the law.

[00:31:01]You have the issue of the court.

[00:31:04]>> Mhm.

[00:31:04]>> A particular court, right? Or certain courts who are similarly aiding or facilitating this.

[00:31:19]And so you wonder what happened to judicial independence.

[00:31:22]>> Do do you have facts to actually back this claim that you're making?

[00:31:26]>> Facts. Do you need any more facts?

[00:31:28]>> No. You made the claims be able to to bucket with circuit court 9 baba circuit court non again circuit court 9 >> right is it not too good to be isn't of too many >> but you mentioned just two people >> no I mention I brought you two instances >> yeah same person but the same court >> exactly that makes it curious that makes it curious for a particular judge for a particular judge sitting at a particular court to always be caught up in this controversy is worrisome. You want to find out is there any marching instructions or the judge is acting independently.

[00:32:13]I'll give you an example. Let's look at Abbrun's matter.

[00:32:17]It is basic. It is right that when you act in a manner which is an affront to the court, it is contempt of court. True or false?

[00:32:29]>> True.

[00:32:30]>> And so why do you charge him for the offense that you've charged him?

[00:32:36]>> Now it is also basic that the framers of our constitution anticipated possible abuses.

[00:32:44]That is why they envisage a court that will be independent. A court that will stand between the the weak and the mighty.

[00:32:53]>> A court that would ensure that the weak does not become the prey of the mighty simply because the mighty has power today. Okay. Now this happens. You go to court and the weak becomes the victim of the system, the judicial system. So the weak is not just the victim of of of of of the person holding political power, executive power. The weak is also a victim of the very court that is supposed to protect it.

[00:33:26]And so when you put all these things together, you ask yourself, is there a welldesigned plan from the law enforcement agencies to the judiciary to abuse power and and and infringe upon the fundamental human rights of people, right? So there's a real issue >> that we need to confront. We don't need to to to to sweep it under the carpet.

[00:33:52]We don't need to to to pretend. We don't need to play the ostrich, right? Because you admit it in your editorial, in your in your introduction. You admitted it.

[00:34:04]So there's a real issue. There's not there's no debate about it anymore.

[00:34:08]>> You made you made a point about a claim about whether the court is currently, you know, being issued marching orders.

[00:34:15]I want to find out from Rashid. Are you issuing any marching orders to the courts on where you want certain cases to be to be?

[00:34:22]>> I didn't make a claim. I asked the question that's a question being given Martin >> that's that's a question right that's a question that if you look at secute court now what is so special about that court that almost all the incidents around Abra and other top members of the party that is where that case has been directed to >> very well let me say good good evening to you >> and then Leonard Council uh MP for Mia SF the good people of Bimila constitute I wish them well. I was there over the weekends. Very beautiful place. I invite you.

[00:34:58]>> You are planning to contest.

[00:35:01]>> When they stand like this, they looking for a >> That's my hometown.

[00:35:05]>> That's my hometown.

[00:35:07]>> When they hold political office, they contemplating themselves with >> you know what?

[00:35:14]>> I can't speak for the judiciary. I can speak for the executive uh because I'm part of the executive and I the executive has no business in how the judiciary handle their their matters. Uh we are respectctors of the law. I mean the president swore to uphold the constitution and to do justice to all manner of persons in this country >> and then all his appointees government functionaries and all this uh are properly being orientated to make sure that we uphold the rule of law in this country.

[00:35:48]>> Uh so as to how judges are empanel to handle cases the the the executive have no business in that.

[00:35:57]If we indeed if we have >> so you believe that the judiciary is independent >> completely independent. Look I'm telling you the judiciary accepted independent judiciary we are having currently different from the judiciary we had about just a year ago or two years ago where you made a point about the chief justice being influenced and as a result of that there were petitions for his removal and she has been removed. You have you've made a claim that the judiciary is independent. So are we seeing a different judiciary now or you believe that the judiciary that existed you know about 2 years ago a year ago was very political you see I don't need to tell you where in this country >> when the whole national security minister came out I don't want to use the word he warned the judiciary but he admonished them that the the type of ruling they were given that was coming out from the supreme court it was not in the interest of the government.

[00:36:56]Then they were not comfortable with the type of ruling that was coming out from the for the opinion.

[00:37:01]>> No, this was a national security minister.

[00:37:04]>> You are not talking of an ordinary person government appointee. somebody who was sitting on a on a national security council and the head of security in this country >> but does that >> and I'm saying that look when when when you have when you have now >> when you have a head of security >> telling you something you must be careful about the warning or the admonition is given to you at that time everybody knew what was going on in this country and it reached a crescendo in the sense that we're asking ourselves whether the the the the the country Ghana that we used to know from ' 92 I remember in fact when we started this democracy in '92 I know the MP then five brains were leading the party although they were in opposition the thing they were doing is you talk of Janice Talby Odic Sykes and then the then chairman Ducha although they were in opposition But these were still people who knew what we were doing. Although there are challenges with the constitution but we follow through the process.

[00:38:15]Look we went through a lot of things in this country just this last 8 years in fact 1.5 years and they are complaining the hell we went through and the NP that's why Ghanaians have sworn that it will take time for them to bring them back to power. Look at look and I'm mindful about one thing. If you say he was talking that why is that >> j >> if you think the judiciary are being influenced how come we lost su case and panda case >> you know that these two cases is not the same judicial I'm saying that this one this current government >> mhm >> under our regime as we sit now >> two serious cases that were pursuing >> council is aware we're very much interested in getting out the because of the situation that led led to his elections. But what happened? The judiciary that they attacking today ruled in favor of them. They were happy.

[00:39:10]>> So my question is the judiciary that you attacked a year or two ago, what has changed about it that >> I'm saying that I am saying that a lot of things have changed.

[00:39:20]>> What has changed?

[00:39:21]>> Ah, do you have the chief justice in place now?

[00:39:26]>> So you believe the chief justice was a problem?

[00:39:28]>> Oh, I'm saying that do you have the chief justice now? Hasn't she gone?

[00:39:32]>> Mhm. The same constitution that was used in bringing her is the same constitution that was used in taking her out.

[00:39:39]Is that not true?

[00:39:40]>> So she was the only point look but if a fish the fish is going to rot from the head is the head if the the head is rotten the whole fish is rotten. So the judiciary at that time there was a challenge we spoke about it and said look it wasn't coming from the NDC it was coming from the same MPP led by Kandapa who was then the the the minister of national security who told Ghanaians that this kind of ruling coming out from the Supreme Court they were not happy with it. They themselves who were beneficiary were not even happy. How much is the the opposition there? And we saw how people could walk to Supreme Court within 2 hours and panel all Supreme Court judges and got favorable ruling in this country. We saw it. It happened in this country. Your past been on record to have also not been happy with certain you know ruling by the judiciary especially Supreme Court 2020 um election petition. You were not happy with the outcome of that.

[00:40:37]>> We didn't go to town and start started calling them names. M oh cel we're in this country did we hold press conference to run them down >> no we didn't do that we didn't do that anytime we want to talk they say we're in who we had a meeting in president mama met lawyers in who and and the middle I was in that meeting in fact I I I trained the lawyers and other thing in election management and that that day I was there I sat through the whole thing the tape is there anytime you ask them they should play the the the the the original tip of what happened at that meeting >> they will be they will just be beaten about the bush there was nothing of that sort he was admonishing lawyers at that time NDC lawyers take interest at the b >> because most of our lawyers you see that they are not interested in going to the bench they don't want to be at the bar >> Mr. let let me let me take the preliminary comments of of seniors and then Dr. Santi Doc I mean I want to start from you. Uh the the picture being painted currently is that civil society has been quiet and we have done the checks 16 arrest in 16 months. Have you made any you know publication about this and what about the claim that civil society has been quiet? What is your position on that?

[00:42:03]>> Yeah a very good uh evening to all your panelists and your viewers. Um so let me try and uh separate the issues so I think we can try and um make some some real progress because the the matters that are being discussed are >> um serious um but you know there are multiple things that uh we we need to to consider. So uh first of all you you have I mean we've talked about the broad rubric of uh criminalizing speech >> and we discussed you know uh a little bit about basically where where we should be going uh on on this particular matter but there is you have uh media and I I use the word uh a bit loosely uh who have been uh caught up you know either in the use of uh the fear and panic law under a criminal code or sometimes the uh electronic communications uh act uh of uh you know sending uh false uh information. Um then you have uh political actors and I think this includes the MPP or mostly the MPP in the most recent uh version of it where the same laws have been used uh against people. But there's also ordinary people who have been caught up you know in in in that law. Then you have uh issues around uh pre-trial detention mostly bail um you know granting a bail or not or you know uh detention that is dragged on and then the conditions of the bail and I'm hearing from uh four now about whether or not there are issues with uh particular courts who are being used to um uh basically trial uh individuals of that nature. So that that's that's a I wanted to separate these things because >> you need different actions uh to deal with that. But I think the bigger issue is around the criminalization of speech and this this is not the first time this matter has come up. uh we we got rid of uh criminal liel >> uh was it uh 200 uh 2001 right and with the expectation that really there has to be very limited circumstances for criminalizing speech but as we have moved into the genital space the concerns have come back again mostly because of the variety of uh speech that may be misleading or misinforming or you know uh deliberately harmful and it's not only Ghana that is is is dealing with this. This is >> internationally everybody's >> grappling with what is the best way to find the balance between the the right to free speech and the issues of accountability or security because these these issues are real. they are not you know uh they are not something to be joked with and I think you all know that I mean there recently the Ministry of Communication uh proposed um a hate speech and uh misinformation disinformation law which a lot of people have expressed serious concerns about in terms of the scope of it and so on and so forth. So the the matter is a very very serious one. M >> um I you know from the M P side a lot of their members are caught in it and but I think that for me I mean from civil society side as I said this is not an issue that is just happening you know um it's been going on >> a recurring issue >> had we have had calls to raise I mean including uh whether or not we should get rid of uh some of these colonial era uh a you know criminal codes that almost like a backdoor to criminal liel uh and find a regime that really addresses the balance. Not easy to do particular as I said because of the digital platforms that we are working with. But I see an opportunity for us to have a real serious conversation >> about what is the best way to regulate this kinds of speech because uh some of the instances uh where people have been arrested some of them are threatening you know actually threatening people to hurt people. If you did that in the public square anywhere you will be arrested. So it it doesn't really change the fact that you are online but some including insults and things it's just a no no because if if if the if the environment if political leaders or public officers cannot accept insults then you know what kind of open civic openness you would basically gag everybody. Uh and it's also dangerous to expect that you if you if cow everybody and and everybody is self censored then they would be in their homes and insulting you and then you not really know how people are feeling and that itself is dangerous for governance. So we really I think it's a real opportunity >> to have a serial a real serious debate because it it affects all of us not just political actors. It can be used against any ordinary citizen who is expressing an opinion and which they entitled to.

[00:48:10]Uh sometimes it can be very harsh in the way it's done. And if we were really going to go by the harshness of commentary, I think all political people, political actors will be in jail.

[00:48:22]>> Okay.

[00:48:23]>> From both sides.

[00:48:25]>> Doc, let me let me >> So I think I think for me that's that's my opening. I I think >> there's a real issue. Of course, these are there are there are actual criminal cases that are before the courts that would have to be dealt with. But I think it also opens the door for a much serious, you know, conversation about finding the right balance.

[00:48:46]>> Sergio, I mean, I want to find out from you. You speak a lot. You express yourself and per where you sit, do you believe that freedom of speech at the moment is an ass looking at the statistics and the sentiment so far and even with the fact that people have a feeling that the section 207 and 208 is being abused and their calls for it to be to be scrapped. But what you say do you feel that freedom of speech is actually under siege?

[00:49:18]Can you hear me? Can you unmute so we can hear you speak?

[00:49:26]>> Hello.

[00:49:26]>> Sorry, I I hadn't muted. Can you hear me now?

[00:49:28]>> We can hear you now.

[00:49:30]>> I said it's a very very necessary um conversation. I commend the minority for stoking this particular conversation and debate. M >> see the 1992 constitution is the primary document that defines how we as a people seek to live and how Ghana should really operate. It gives us a clear framework for this particular debate 211A and I refer to it every time. I refer to the constitution a lot because I need people every average Ghana to know this is not a document that is meant for lawyers.

[00:50:01]It's a document meant for everyone. How we move, what we do, how what we say, how we govern must be guided by this particular document. 211A guarantees us all the freedom of speech and expression including the press of the freedom and and media as well as as as you guys practicing there. 12 to ask 12 in particular to add that these rights are exercised subject to the respect of the rights and freedoms of others and for the public interest. So definitely for every right that we are privileged with or we are authorized to exercise there's also some moderating factor by responsibility that comes to it but article 164 makes it very clear that any law limiting media freedom must be reasonably required in the interest of national security public order public morality or for the protecting of the rights of others. So the constitution allows limits but only limits that I think I mean should be reasonable necessary and clearly justified. So this recent arrest by abroad over comments about definitely raises governor's concern. The biggest one that scares me the most is that somebody is reported and I stand to be educated by you cuz I've not followed local news so strongly lately. um that somebody said what do >> the police that is ridiculous totally unacceptable it's a total disgrace to our democracy and the government of John Mohamad drami mama absolutely unacceptable it does not reflect the posture of the president and I think the president must actually call to order and bring to those actors who participated in that conversation to what extent that expression of free speech that unreasonable that is an overreach that is threatening to lives that is disruptive of the public order of public morality it doesn't make sense and totally unacceptable we have thrived because we are free to speak free to question authority >> should be but don't you believe that it's simply because of how >> somebody is having do so in his house >> are you there to tell whether he's having do so or If he's experiencing doing so, how dare you say you're going to arrest him for it, you should be thinking about how you can transform his life, make it more meaningful for him to have a more productive life even if it's in the opposition. The thing that I have a problem with this are politicians, both sides of the aisle. When they in government, you always think that they're going to be in government forever. Don't be fooled. You're always always in a transition. in the transition that you should account impact to other lives in the period that you have a mandate >> and you should build a government that when you are not in government you are happy to live around that will be the optimization of the core >> in fact in fact exactly the reason why I wanted I wanted that follow-up question that if you look at how we have politicized some of these issues more or less is you do me I do you and it's a tit fortat approach that we are currently practicing at the moment.

[00:53:19]>> It makes no sense be MP of Bibila. One of the people I admire the most used to be MP of Dad Chambers.

[00:53:30]>> All right. And my brother Nana is also doing a great job. But you guys are not enemies. You are friends. We may disagree on ideas on one matter or the other. We may agree on other ideas. We may actually disagree on our party affiliation. But there's one thing we must all agree on the cause of Ghana. We must all agree on that cause. We have one Ghana at the end of the day. You need to try whether there's NDC or PP in there. N do you want to be hungry under ND NDC? Do you want your business or your practice to crash under NDC? Is that what you want? If NP is there, do you want your your business your economic interest TO BE DISRUPTIVE? DO you want the future of your your children to be destroyed because it is not your government in there? Absolutely not. We want to advance the cause of our country on superior ideas at every point in time. NOT TRYING TO find way to pull each other down to wrap things on authority in the face of others. That is not the democracy we sought to achieve.

[00:54:31]What we sought to try for a government that ensures the liberty of everyone. A government that ensures the prosperity of everyone. a government that respects the need for us to live with the values of property and accountability. We must be accountable to the to the people of Ghana and sustainable that is meaningful for all of us. I I want us to disagregate the issue and not lump everything together because I mean I I mean you made an important point the example you cited about somebody posting that quotes doomsay is back and that person was arrested but you look at some of the individuals who have been in the mix especially looking at the rank and the first person on the frequency table is a Bron DC and I have said that in the stoastic process of things this is somebody that if you look at the trajectory of his arrest and What we have tracked so far it tells you he's been arrested by at least about six times two by his own government not even arrest invitation under his government there were invitation but there was one that he was actually you know charged four under this particular administration it's been four times since the I mean since this this Abra DC has been arrested and I want I want to take you through some of the comments that actually landed him in trouble and the charge sheet For instance, uh in during his own administration, he was arrested twice and he made some allegations. He was actually cautioned and said that well you can go but consistently we've seen him being arrested for for saying things that a lot to say will be difficult for for many others to say. So in such a situation what do we do? How do we make sure that we segregate those that currently possibly are out of the I mean they outlied as far as the issue is concerned and the genuine ones that possibly needs attention.

[00:56:26]>> There's no denying the fact that Bron's comments are are easily irresponsible and reckless and not actually reflective of the of the of the philosophy and culture of the government of the party that he's supposed to represent. I I think that the MPP has to look within.

[00:56:42]If people like like Abra can actually now be be party chairman, then it means that your your party has lost his philosophy. But it's is inconsequential.

[00:56:51]The key test is whether his actions are such a major threat to our national security. He's so disruptive of public order, public moral morality and is so disruptive of of the protection of the rights of others. I really agree that some kind of action he had accured to himself. But how is it that you do take such an action and refuse >> that here? Unless of course my >> that's an important point but I want to find out from >> you see you take an action because look we have to maintain the sanctity the authority and the dignity of our courts is the place that we go for adjudication the finality to disruptive disagreements that we may have at any point in time.

[00:57:31]So there's a certain honor that we must maintain for our courts even when we criticize them fiercely. I have criticized the former chief justice very fiercely. All right. And and and have no regrets for that.

[00:57:42]>> But but how about how about how about those who say that if you look at for instance he is being on a frequent uh you know use of a certain means of communicating and saying things about people and they should also say that well the judge has looked at the data and he can't predict that well if I leave you you go and make the same mistake because you've been arrested six times.

[00:58:03]>> Respectfully that's an overreach. But let's be fair, I don't know if it was my my my brother who who raised the fact that these politicians have been more ridiculous around things that have to do. Look, Kennedy practically went try to ask people to go beat or kill guns and airways. My mom is a gun. My dad is an airway. Where's Kennedy?

[00:58:27]You see, we've had people from the NBC also say, very strong things. So let's not pretend as politicians don't behave like that. Let's agree that there's a need for a moderation in what we do. We must respect the order of things. We must ensure that our people who represent the philosophies of our government philos philosophies or party philosophies should be representative properly. But be is not acceptable. It also doesn't mean that you should take a sledgehammer to just kill a fly. In this instance, it may not be a fly but you know it may be a rat.

[00:59:03]But for the those who say that some of your members have been reckless especially with the way they have communicated and said certain things about you know in persons in government and that's why they are in a position where they are currently >> in my government >> I'm very happy >> no that's to buff I'm very happy with the way Dr. Puni >> has assisted in the elevation of the discussion.

[00:59:32]>> I think we need to make progress and segregate the real issues and see where the problem really lies so that it will be very easy for us to find a solution to it.

[00:59:44]>> Okay?

[00:59:46]>> You see, we should appreciate this.

[00:59:53]There's no way. There's no way that at any point in time we are not likely to have people who abuse power >> and enforce the law wrongly. Indeed, I dare say that the law is not the problem but the enforcement of the law.

[01:00:14]the enforcement of the law by security agencies and then the enforcement of the law by some of our courts.

[01:00:26]>> Why do I say so?

[01:00:28]If a person files a charge sheet against Bafo and the person comes to court and say that from the facts Bafo has committed an offense A B C D an application is made for bail baff the police says that don't give BA for bail.

[01:00:51]It is for the court to determine whether or not in the circumstance of the matter BF is entitled to bail bying his discretion under the law.

[01:01:00]>> Now the court becomes the middle person between the two parties. M >> often times if you look at the way section 208 and its sister law under the communications act have been applied if the court was minded to do justice and be fair there's no way we'll be here complaining there's no way we'll be here complaining I'll explain I'll take let me take the cases When you look at the cases that have gone to court that have resulted in the discussions that we are having, when you take Abbron, like I alluded to in my introductory remark, a judge very respectfully, the law lies in your bosom. It lies in your bosom competently to deal with matters that are arising.

[01:02:07]Somebody brings a charge sheet and on it are facts that someone has insulted a judge.

[01:02:14]The basic law will teach you that this is contempt of court.

[01:02:18]>> Was it just an insult?

[01:02:20]>> Well, an attack. Whatever it is, whatever it is, it's an affront to the judiciary. Even if it is true, >> even if it is true, because you see, when an allegation is made against you, >> it doesn't it may not be proven to be true. Yeah.

[01:02:35]>> And so when the allegation is made is for the judge to determine whether or not you're entitled to bail from the outset you have to know that what has been brought before you primarily there's a problem. The problem is that if you look at the relevant law and the relevant and the facts, the facts clearly don't support the charge.

[01:03:01]>> Otherwise, everybody will be arraigned before court on the premises of those charges and that is where the abuse lies.

[01:03:12]And so we have to be very careful. We should not be blaming the law.

[01:03:19]Otherwise, we would be we we are going to blame everything on the law and forget that it is for someone to interpret the law and the interpretation of the law is where the problem lies.

[01:03:32]I dare say that the trend suggest that it is not a case of um it is not a case of an a a mere error on the part of the court. The case suggest a deliberate The case suggest a deliberate effort right >> to aid the executive in a certain pursuit otherwise it wouldn't have been it wouldn't have been an error which is frequently being committed.

[01:04:10]>> Yeah.

[01:04:11]>> Okay. So in my view we need to very careful in blaming the law. The problem is not the law. The problem is the interpretation and in this case a deliberate attempt okay >> to use the law against the opponents of the government which raises that curiosity which I alluded to. Now the other point that we all have to also be very worried about is this.

[01:04:41]In our courtroom there are no cameras.

[01:04:43]In our courtroom there are no cameras.

[01:04:46]The only time we hear of what happens in our courtroom very respectfully is when such high profile cases come up. Our judges should be very worried because I know that I mean we have lot of judges in this country and not every one of them is involved in this matter but we have particular judges who are being ma mentioned particularly in this case the judge at circuit court 9. Now anytime the court is now being mentioned is it has to have to do it has to it has to do with the wrong application of the law.

[01:05:24]If I am a judge, I'll be worried because people don't see what happens in the courtroom. What is coming from the courtroom is the abuses that we are talking about. The fundamental question which we should all be applying our minds to is that is this happening to just high-profile people or ordinary Ghanaians?

[01:05:47]If it is h happening to just high-profile people, there lies the issue of partisanship >> and the question is the independence of the judiciary. Are they independent in the circumstance of this matter? If it is also happening across the board such that ordinary Ghanaians are also becoming victims of such abuse, there lies the issue of the competence of of of of the particular judge and we should all be worried.

[01:06:15]And so there are real issues.

[01:06:18]There are real issues. It's very easy just like just that like what my brother was doing to reduce it to partisanship and and say that the MPP did this, the NDC did that. But at the end of the day, who are those suffering? If like I said, it is happening to everybody, then the ordinary Ghanaian is also suffering.

[01:06:40]Now, now Tango, I I see you are you combing through the constitution and the point has been made. At what point did our laws graduate insults to crime? You see, let's face it, our opponent have put in motion a strategy to to malign the judiciary.

[01:07:04]They've put in motion. They've started this way way back. As soon as his excellency John Draan Mama was sworn you remember the case of >> But you have supervised of the chief justice.

[01:07:13]>> Oh noise what it was a constitution that was used to remove her >> but there a lot of >> I'm saying it was a constitution that was used to remove her. It's the same constitution that brought her and I'm saying that this matter that we are talking about is about the sanctity of our democracy >> the soul of our democracy. How to protect our our democracy. Look, we have been brought up to respect leaders, elders and opinion leaders.

[01:07:45]We are not read like animals.

[01:07:48]But what are we see in this country?

[01:07:50]Certain behaviors are being put as if some people are just red and they just plucked from the market.

[01:07:56]Why is it that Nana is here? Nobody has ever chased to to ask him to retract or or or should apologize or he's been called to come and answer questions before security agencies. But he's been criticizing the government. Every day he criticized the government. Constructive criticism. We take it on board. That is the essence of being on the opposition.

[01:08:17]But they have some people have graduated from criticism to recklessness and careless lawlessness.

[01:08:27]Nana is an officer of the court. What you've just put up on the screen from Abuna Maf, if somebody's brought up properly, will you speak this way to an elder?

[01:08:39]And and and we people are there clapping for him and asking that he should he should be removed. He should come out.

[01:08:45]Listen to what the judge said when he was making a ruling. You see NP I don't understand your group sometimes you you are not helping your young people.

[01:08:53]Initially they put out that the man put they said they should go and put abuna inside until the the the case is determined. Is that what is in the case?

[01:09:03]>> What's in there?

[01:09:04]>> Listen to what he said. In fact the man made in fact when he was putting the team I want to read that aspect for you to see.

[01:09:12]>> Okay.

[01:09:13]>> The council the council for the accused prayed for bail on the grounds that the accused was already granted bail by the police. Council further submitted that the accused will be available before the court to answer to the to the change to the charge leveled against him. The prosecution in in his submission opposed the bill on grounds that the accused will will will commit further offenses when granted B. We don't know what you said. Even under his government his government which was in power he was arrested twice when he came in. He didn't stop there. Now he's wearing opposition cloth. So he can now >> twice not >> twice.

[01:09:50]>> But was he not cautioning?

[01:09:52]>> He was cautioning when he was charged.

[01:09:54]>> He knows he he's a lawyer. I'm learning from him. He knows what it means when you are cautioned.

[01:10:00]Listen, prosecution rely on section 965 CD of act 30 of 1960, section 2081 of act 29 1960 and section 2964 of act 30 1960 to batter his argument. This court has considered the arguments put up by both council for accuse and the prosecution.

[01:10:22]The court is of the view that when granted bill the accused will commit federal offenses. Mhm.

[01:10:28]>> This court specifically relies on section emphasis.

[01:10:33]This court specifically relies on section 965 C and D of act 30 of 1960.

[01:10:41]Was this one put up by the court the the judge himself at the time they wrote this in the judge was in primary school.

[01:10:48]By the time this act was provated the judge was in primary school. The judge is just referring to the law and saying that accordingly the bill application by council for the accuse is refused.

[01:11:00]Council has already said it. The accus is hereby remanded into BNI cas to reappear. Listen >> to reappear before the court at the next adjoin date. Why is NP doing this to Ghanaians? Why are they doing this to >> I know there's a lot you want to say.

[01:11:16]>> So these are the problem I'm saying.

[01:11:18]Yeah, please let's protect quick your intervention. Just a minute.

[01:11:23]I have to go for a break.

[01:11:25]>> When they used to call the chief justice of the time, Justice Tonu, >> the women women's organizer of the MPP has forgotten >> somebody sat on TV and said justice, one of their officers sat on Metro TV and said justice is the worst chief justice.

[01:11:45]I don't want to reduce this. I'm saying that I'm just referring to the the rules. Let's elevate the conversation. That is why we have elevated eleution and the criminal acts have to go. Uh so after this short break we'll have further discussion on this from Africa to football's biggest stage.

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[01:13:38]still watching us here on PM Express and in fact just before the break you saw how the conversation almost took a heated turn but I mean calm has actually prevailed right so we move to the other leg of the conversation which has to do with the section 207 and 208. The big question is, is it time for it to be scrapped? I want to start from uh Dr. uh Asante. What's your position on this?

[01:14:03]Samson has written on it. He believes that this law has been abused and it's time for us to say goodbye to that law.

[01:14:12]>> I I agree. I mean and and baby contrary to law's position >> I think the problem is both the law um >> and the enforcement because you see in all these instances I think maybe accept a few um I still think that you would actually be able to uh incentivize uh mis you know uh behavior through either defamation or a liel suit if you hit it in the person's pocket that will be even more effective than you know all these arrest because I I mean I take I take a very very strong view to to deny somebody of their personal liberty it's not a it's not something to be taken lightly >> I mean to to to to deny somebody their personal liberty because they've insulted somebody it's it's just not you you don't want to start you know creating a a civic space like that whether offline or online it is just not uh it doesn't work from the governor's point of view you are just creating more problems for for people so a lot of these matters that we are talking about if you hit somebody with the suit one two three times I'm telling you they will just not have uh the the where without to to you know to be misinforming and abusing the public space. So that's one. So I I I agree that for me uh some of these laws particularly the some of these laws that go back to the 1960s and so on uh really we have to get rid of that's and because we have to also justapose that against the current >> uh effort to relegulate you know the entire digital space >> uh through some of the laws that the ministry of communication has put out even though I have to register you know serious concerns with the current content of of those laws but that is a much more comprehensive uh uh effort to deal with that because there are things we need to separate. So you take insult for instance you are elevating the insult of a public officer over and above the insult of a private citizen.

[01:16:37]So if seen insults me, can I report seen so that you know seen is arrested or seen has to be a public officer? I mean and and and how then do we all be equal before the law? Why are you your rights are more important than mine?

[01:16:57]How do you square that?

[01:16:59]>> You know the these things don't don't uh they create uh all kinds of you know challenges in the public. The way we have to think about the digital space is that basically is what we we do offline that is just being represented online.

[01:17:14]The only for me the only differences that are there is because it has varietality. You know what you are saying can reach more people very quickly.

[01:17:25]>> Yeah.

[01:17:26]>> And more difficult to you know retract.

[01:17:29]So we need to think about what are the frameworks and you know that there's been a lot of conversation about how do you regulate uh platforms uh what kind of you know content moderation you should have those are the things that normally if you had a broadcasting law through radio you can control. We don't have that and we've not had the enforcement to really be able to stop the the virality that comes with uh with saying something like that on social media. So what I'm saying is that criminal liel is very has to be used in very exceptional circumstances. If you areight inciting people like you know Boku is a a prime example when people are doing ethnic incitement these are clear >> misuse of of the public space threatening people uh that you kill somebody if you do that offline you'll be arrested just like if you do it online but those circumstances and conditions have to be you know properly defined and the rest really is really a criminal li a civil liel uh you know process that we should take people on. If you are making false claims about somebody and you cannot substantiate it then the court will deal with you you know through a liel or defamatory you know suit and and those are some of the things you know uh we we need to look at. But once you go this tangent of trying to criminalize different kinds of speech and creating your own interpretations of what constitutes harm or uh sometimes even embarrassment >> and so >> those are those I think are not helpful.

[01:19:18]>> Okay s what's your position on this?

[01:19:20]Does it go?

[01:19:26]I I I think that um we have to be practical about this entire conversation. Um these laws pre-exist our constitution. Our constitution is quite clear about the freedom of speech.

[01:19:41]It puts clear constraints on how that could be exercised. It puts clear responsibility on on the actors in the exercise of that particular speech. This is just a total abuse and a breach of that constitution.

[01:19:56]um to criminalize abusive or insulting words or behavior in public, you know, is is unreasonable. So you actually protecting the feelings of some public officer, some politician other than the reality of our of our democracy. You're asking that we we criminalize publishing false statement whether you realize you didn't know it was wrong or not. I mean they are just too vague and broad.

[01:20:22]There's a need for a certain level of accountability. So we also don't go haywire. We can't lose sight of things that have happened in places like Rwanda where people went around, you know, spreading falsehood and it caused harm for the public. So there's some kind of reddrafting of these laws that must be looked at or possibly an absolute repeal of it and and more a more functional and practical fair reasonable um provision that still puts in a certain level of accountability and responsibility on the part of the citizenry. But anything act like this you know I'm just I'm just reading this over and over again. I keep thinking I don't know how come we missed it. We we've actually had criminal liel with us all these years and we spent our whole time just changing what a government at a certain point in time brought and and we thought we had we had actually won the fight against um free speech but only to realize we still have this and look I really like what NJ said at the heart of everything are the actors if actors don't have the right value system they don't have the right kind of heart any kind of law you create they'll find a way to abuse it against each other but leave all of us with this parting words. A Ghana that is sustainable is a Ghana that a ruling government needs to be sustainable for it position because one day every ruling government will be in opposition. So don't create laws, don't create an environment, don't create a governance frame, a government culture that will come back to hunt you yourself one day.

[01:21:51]You will never be in office forever.

[01:21:53]>> Okay. Thank you very much. Uh Tango, let me let me start with Tango. What's your position on this? Sir >> well look I I I I I I I have a different opinion on this.

[01:22:04]>> Okay.

[01:22:06]>> See if you look at the law >> that that section very well and marry it with our culture and tradition >> customary laws you will realize that that law emanate from their customary laws.

[01:22:22]>> I can learn from council here.

[01:22:24]>> You get that? M because if you look at false publication, our own tradition upholds that our culture and tradition look if you go to our chief stency institution and all that where people will just sit down and concoct stories to create fear and panic. Ghana is not noted for that. It's a very peaceful environment.

[01:22:48]We have the those days that we don't want this to come back again. Since 1992, we've been very peaceful. We've been enjoying peaceful coexistence and all that. But when you sit down and and now observe some of our youngsters these days, I don't know. You see, they just want to make or to become popular within the seconds >> by making false publications.

[01:23:13]>> There's a one one platform like that on social media. There's a BB B is it BMW or something like that? Something for BIA and all this. Go and see what they are publishing over there.

[01:23:25]Go and see there.

[01:23:27]Very soon we'll get the the one behind that publication.

[01:23:32]The state is pursuing that that blogger and as soon as the person is caught by the security agents, don't be surprised that his people will come there and said release them free speech.

[01:23:46]But is there to part ways with I am saying that 207 that law should be there but in order to sanitize very vague because if you look at which one media publication media foundation for Africa actually describes this law as the two ugly sisters of the criminal liel law who never left with her 8 years that law was with us and they were using it and arresting people left.

[01:24:14]You want that? I'm saying that we've not we have not used it. The judiciary and the edition the security agents operated under that time.

[01:24:22]>> What what were you saying about this? So we should open the Pandora box and people destabilize the country for us.

[01:24:28]That is why we are trying to do that.

[01:24:30]That is what we are looking for and I'm saying that we are not going to allow that. Look, if you make reckless statement, false statement or you do anything and toward disturb the peace of this country, the security should pick you up >> in a rumble state. No rust. They should go and get you a cooler place to rest.

[01:24:46]>> How is DOOM IS BACK?

[01:24:48]>> OH, NO. THAT one is not an issue. If somebody says, if somebody says back, I don't have problem with that. So, so why was he not the matter?

[01:25:01]Why has he been arrested?

[01:25:03]>> It is not about Jim saying Doomso is back.

[01:25:05]>> But what >> they're looking at the you see when you truncate the statement it look like the person say ah they held a press conference talk of Doomo we arrest him.

[01:25:14]>> So is group they press conference the person tweeted the person is back. Do you know the kind of character thing the kind of pictures he went and put the whole president and put in THE IF YOU PUT WHAT I'M SAYING? ALL YOU ARE SAYING so what put that put the asant or my my par chief picture like this and he won't come after you. So you you can't you can't do that because we must respect and I'm saying that it's a country that we must respect >> the only person you can't insult. He's a chief.

[01:25:42]>> I am saying that our leaders must be respected and I always say that there's no way I will insult nana here uphold his knowledge alone and I'll respect I won't do anything and against his person. Are you getting it? But if he says something I want to criticize, I'll look at constructive criticism on his statement and that. But when I reduce it to NA and just come down and want to run NA down.

[01:26:05]>> So when you when you campaigning 2024 where your top brass members of the MDC were saying they were instad which NDC leader was mentioning where Sami Ji and were singing >> where is it? work but can you play if you have arrested >> I was there everything that you did I was part and parcel of it they tell me which leader but if you is one of the most responsible let me go to communicator fact yourself can live in n you have the floor now but people are just doing the insulting and attacking elders please come in it appears tango himself is a relic of pre 1992.

[01:26:55]>> Oh, he's stuck there. Tango is stuck in pre92.

[01:27:00]>> No, we've passed 92 and we've changed.

[01:27:03]>> We came to Unfortunately, we have just one minute. So, if you could wrap up one.

[01:27:06]>> Yeah, we're wrapping up.

[01:27:07]>> We wrapping up one.

[01:27:08]>> Yeah.

[01:27:09]>> Section 76 >> of the Electronic Communications Act was actually The Electronic Communications Act was actually passed in 2008. So it doesn't predate the 1992 constitution.

[01:27:24]It is also a law which exists in other countries like the United Kingdom or similar laws exist in the United Kingdom >> and then the United States.

[01:27:35]I will still insist that it is not the law but the persons that interpret the law >> who have who have become the problem. No matter what law you pass, it will be subject to interpretation. For instance, murder and manslaughter, >> right?

[01:27:55]>> Not every incident that leads to the death of a person is murder.

[01:28:01]>> Okay?

[01:28:02]>> It might be manslaughter. It is for the person interpreting it to differentiate the two. If you don't interpret it well and you treat manslaughter a situation which should be manslaughter to be murder.

[01:28:16]>> So your position is >> right please >> we have just we treat that situation as murder.

[01:28:23]>> The problem is not the law. The problem is the person interpreting it. That is the situation we have at hand.

[01:28:32]>> A particular judge okay >> has been abusing the interpretation of the law. a particular judge and we are not attacking the judiciary. We need to make this point. It is a particular judge's conduct which is an issue and I think that all of us should be concerned why that trend from that particular judge is what he's also doing to ordinary Ghanaians not just absence of the MPP talk.

[01:28:57]>> If that is the case then his competence is at heart.

[01:29:00]>> Okay gentlemen I'm so happy that you could make time to join us. This was very interesting conversation. My guest Dr. Kodopa Asante is director policy engagement and partnerships at CDD Ghana. Dr. Rashid Tango computer deputy national director of elections and ITNDC and senior hosi member one Ghana movement and Nana AJ Bur the Huawei's member of parliament for Mia South.

[01:29:26]Gentlemen, I'm so glad that you could make time to join but unfortunately this where time will allow us peg our conversation. Do stay with us. Enjoy the rest of your evening. Heat.

[01:29:54]Heat.

[01:30:12]Heat. Heat.

[01:30:29]Hello, good evening and welcome to the 1800.

[01:30:33]>> It's few hours to the 6 p.m. bulletin on campus radio at the University of Media Arts and Communication. Sarak Malu goes over her script.