EP160｜首位台灣出生的太空人來了！登上太空真的會改變人生？feat. NASA 太空人 Kjell Lindgren

追加: 2026-05-26

[00:00:00]We have a very busy schedule. It's it's uh scheduled down to the five minute increment which is pretty amazing. Our day typically officially starts at seven and so we'll generally wake up maybe at six.

[00:00:12]>> What time zone is that?

[00:00:13]>> So we're in the [laughter] Great question. Great question. Because we're flying around the Earth at 17,500 mph means we see 16 sunrises and sunsets in a 24-hour period.

[00:00:24]>> Okay.

[00:00:34]The guest today is a NASA astronaut born in Taiwan. Your mother is Taiwanese.

[00:00:40]Your father is American. You have a doctorate of medicine degree and a minor in Mandarin Chinese.

[00:00:47]>> That's true.

[00:00:48]>> And you've worked and lived in space for over 300 days. So, let's welcome Dr. Jel lingren dah. [laughter] How is your Mandarin?

[00:01:00]>> Very very poor.

[00:01:01]>> Very very poor. Besides Dia, can you do like a more elaborated intro? No, that's [laughter] it.

[00:01:09]>> Okay. But it is my absolute honor and privilege to have you on our podcast because you are an extraordinary individual and you represent a lot of people's dreams and and goals. So, you're really an inspiration for a lot of us. So, thank you for coming on and joining me on this conversation.

[00:01:29]>> Well, thank you so much. It is uh it's a privilege to be here.

[00:01:32]>> Thank you.

[00:01:32]>> I appreciate the the kind words. Um >> just a a a normal person with an extraordinary job getting to work with an extraordinary team.

[00:01:42]>> Um and very grateful for that that opportunity, but uh grateful to be here today with you. Thank you for your time.

[00:01:48]Yeah. And this opportunity to chat.

[00:01:50]>> So, first of all, I want to welcome you back to Taiwan. You were born in Taiwan.

[00:01:54]When was the last time you came to Taiwan?

[00:01:56]>> Yeah, that's right. So, uh, born in Taiwan, lived here for two two years >> in Taijong and then, uh, had the opportunity to come back a couple of times in the 80s while my mom's family was still living here and got to visit over the summer.

[00:02:10]>> The last time I was here was um, during uh, university between my uh, third and fourth years. During the summer, got to do a foreign uh, language exchange. So, that was in 94. So, it's been decades since I've been >> been back.

[00:02:26]>> I was five.

[00:02:28]So, that's quite a long time. So, you were you've you're gonna be in Taiwan for about a week trip, right? And you've already spent maybe like a day and a half in Taiwan. What's your >> impression of Taiwan today versus like 30 years ago when you were back in your college days?

[00:02:43]>> It is vibrant.

[00:02:44]>> Vibrant >> uh uh and amazing. And uh you know, just getting to walk the streets. The the first day that we were here, we did a a walk historic walking tour for three hours.

[00:02:55]>> Three hours? That's quite a walk.

[00:02:57]>> Started at Long Sean Temple and ended at the Chiang Kai-Shek Memorial.

[00:03:01]>> Oh, nice.

[00:03:02]>> And um and so just to absorb the the history that's here.

[00:03:08]>> Yeah. um to see the people, to see the industry and and um and really the vibrancy of the community in downtown Taipei has been amazing. And so got to sample some foods.

[00:03:23]>> And >> what did you what did you eat?

[00:03:25]>> Well, let's see. We've had a bubble tea, of course.

[00:03:27]>> Of course.

[00:03:28]>> Of course.

[00:03:28]>> Of course.

[00:03:29]>> And uh and then have had some ramen and um and some rice dishes. And so >> it's wonderful. Are you going to get a chance to maybe visit one of the uh night markets?

[00:03:41]>> Uh that is definitely on our list. So in the evening once uh once our day day work is done. We definitely want >> Awesome. Are you going to get a chance to go back to Tai Jong?

[00:03:50]>> We are.

[00:03:51]>> Oh, nice.

[00:03:51]>> Absolutely.

[00:03:52]>> Yeah. I think that would be a very beautiful like >> Absolutely. Uh in fact yesterday um we visited the National Palace Museum >> and afterwards walked took a bus and then walked away um to see the hospital where I was born.

[00:04:08]>> So here in Taipei.

[00:04:09]>> Here in Taipei. That's right. So it used to be a US Navy hospital >> is now I think a veterans rehabilitation physical rehabilitation hospital.

[00:04:17]>> Wow. but got to see the place where I was born which is pretty amazing and really the beginning of this incredible journey that I've had ultimately flying in space and now getting to come back and share that experience.

[00:04:29]>> Now talking about this incredible journey how does one become an astronaut? Like what's the story of your journey of becoming an astronaut?

[00:04:37]>> Sure. Um there that is a long story [laughter] >> very convoluted. Um I would say that is based in inspiration, uh stubbornness and hard work.

[00:04:50]>> And so I was I grew up um I love science fiction. Um I'm a Star Wars kid >> and love to read science fiction. Uh but recall very clearly my second grade teacher wheeling a television into our room in 1981 and watching the very first space shuttle launch. And that's when it occurred to me >> that living and working in space is not just science fiction, that we were actually doing it, >> right?

[00:05:16]>> And so then >> I I had caughten the bug. And so I I wanted to be an astronaut.

[00:05:22]>> I read books of the, you know, the early biographies of our early astronauts >> and everybody was a test pilot. And so I decided, well, that's apparently what I need to do, become an astronaut. My father was in the Air Force and so I followed a path that ultimately led through the Air Force Academy uh to to uh pilot training. In pilot training, I was uh diagnosed with asthma >> and told not only are you not going to be able to fly, but um we're going to kick you out of the Air Force. Ooh.

[00:05:55]>> And so my story is an incredible one because um it feels impossible, >> right, >> that I should be here getting to share the experience of spaceflight because in my mind there is no connection between being kicked out of the military and ultimately becoming an astronaut, >> right?

[00:06:11]>> And so uh very difficult time the obliteration of that dream of someday becoming an astronaut. Um, >> and you were so close >> and you were on on that path.

[00:06:22]Absolutely. A path that I had charted out and was following very closely.

[00:06:25]>> Right.

[00:06:26]>> I fought to to I appealed the decision because I felt an obligation to this incredible education and opportunity that I'd been given, >> but ultimately um that decision was upheld.

[00:06:40]>> Uh, I had to let rely on um family and friends and my faith and ultimately chart a new path. And so in undergraduate I was >> premed.

[00:06:50]>> And while I was waiting for the diagnosis, I was taking um MCAT courses and preparing for medical school entrance exams on the off chance that I wouldn't be able to fly, that I would have something else to offer. Yeah.

[00:07:04]>> Um but ultimately um I was accepted into the the University of Colorado School of Medicine program.

[00:07:11]>> Uh went through medical school, trained in emergency medicine. And it was during that time in our program we dive in hyperaric chambers >> and you can't do that and have asthma and so I was tested and they said you don't have asthma.

[00:07:24]>> What interesting >> and so that really in my mind opened the door for at least participating in human space flight in some way. I went on to train in a second residency in aerospace medicine. Got a job as a flight surgeon at NASA >> and then two years into that job >> after applying was selected in the astronaut office. and so so grateful. Um has a very convoluted path, >> right?

[00:07:47]>> Uh obstacles and challenges along the way. Um but grateful for the opportunity.

[00:07:52]>> Wow. Amazing. Uh yeah. Your story felt like your you were shut down with uh this this path and then that led you to become >> like to get your doctorate degree in medicine, right? And then that kind of opened up another path for you to come back into this path. It's like a sometimes you don't get a straight path >> straight line >> to where you want to get to and then life just leads you in another way. But >> but as you look back on it, I'm grateful for every part of that. Even the day that I was kicked out in the Air Force, >> I see what once you might describe as a curse.

[00:08:30]>> Yeah.

[00:08:30]>> I now from the perspective of where I'm at right now see that day as a blessing.

[00:08:34]>> Blessing. Um because I think with 100% certainty had I stayed in the Air Force, had I flown, I wouldn't be here today.

[00:08:42]>> But going through that that challenge, >> yeah, >> uh created opportunity um created resilience and ultimately resulted in this incredible privilege of serving as an astronaut.

[00:08:56]>> Right. So you were selected as an a to become an astronaut in 2009, I believe.

[00:09:02]>> That's right. And then your first mission was 2015 to to space.

[00:09:06]>> That's right.

[00:09:07]>> What was that like when you finally >> went up into the space and looking at down on Earth?

[00:09:15]>> Amazing.

[00:09:15]>> Just different lens.

[00:09:17]>> Amazing. So, you're right. I was selected in 2009. When we bring a new astronaut class in, they immediately start astronaut candidate training.

[00:09:24]>> Yeah.

[00:09:25]>> Spacew walk training.

[00:09:27]>> That's fun.

[00:09:28]>> Yes. Uh robotic arm training. um flying in the T-38 jet, which is our spaceflight readiness trainer, and then >> uh Russian language training.

[00:09:38]>> Russian language training.

[00:09:39]>> Yes. Because uh the Russians are a major partner in the space station program.

[00:09:43]>> And my first flight was actually on a Russian rocket, the Soyuse rocket and a soy use capsule.

[00:09:49]>> I see.

[00:09:49]>> And as a crew member, you have to be technically fluent um to be able to serve as a as a good crew member.

[00:09:56]But going through all of that, so after finishing CA astronaut candidate training, uh served in a technical job supporting other people that were flying until I was assigned and then started my um space station training flow, which is about another two years >> for that specific mission and then um that opportunity to launch. So four years of specific training >> and then you're on the launch pad. Uh, the engine lights, the countdown finishes, the engine lights up, you feel the rumble, you feel the G-forces.

[00:10:28]>> Um, and I have a distinct memory of after the launch shroud pulls away from the capsule. I was on the right seat. I have a window right next to my head.

[00:10:37]>> Uh, the launch shroud pulls away and that gives you the first view of the Earth from space. And this bright white arc of the first orbital sunrise. Um, absolutely amazing. And you know, an image that is burned on my consciousness and then seeing the space station floating there as we're getting ready to dock and then going through the hatch and being able to float and move around in that larger volume of the space station. Just all indelible memories um and really the realization of a lifelong dream.

[00:11:09]>> And that business trip, that first business trip was 141 days.

[00:11:15]>> That's right. [laughter] >> It is not a long >> It's not a jaunt. It is a Yeah, that is a major.

[00:11:21]>> So, I wanted to talk about like your your life living and working at the ISS, International Space Station.

[00:11:28]>> 141 days as your first trip out into space.

[00:11:32]>> What was that like? How did you adjust, you know, yourself in the first few days? How >> how did you and your other colleagues like cooperate? Because I'm imagine it's not a very like spacious space station.

[00:11:46]>> And it's actually pretty amazing. The space station now has the internal volume of about a five bedroomedroom house.

[00:11:54]>> Oh, that big.

[00:11:54]>> So there's a lot of room inside. And the US segment of the space station has multiple modules. And we're at a point now where if you're most of your work is in one of the modules.

[00:12:05]>> Yeah.

[00:12:06]>> Um and somebody the others are working in the other modules, you could go a whole day without really interacting with each other.

[00:12:12]>> Oh, okay. you know, um that is a confined environment in a um in a ha it's a confined space in a hazardous environment.

[00:12:24]>> And so you have to be very intentional about being a good teammate. You can imagine that an interpersonal conflict um is easier in that environment to to occur, >> right? and is much more difficult >> in that environment because you can't >> leave like you're you're stuck there, >> right?

[00:12:44]>> And so our process begins at the very beginning with selection, making sure that we're picking the right people that can >> um that have the technical expertise to be able to get through training with no problem.

[00:12:56]>> Okay. But then when we do a selection, we're tr we're choosing people that we want to hang out with for six months in a space >> and that you can trust with your life because we trust each other with our lives every day >> for sure. Do you guys do like a like team building exercises back down in Earth before you guys leave?

[00:13:14]>> We absolutely do.

[00:13:15]>> Yeah.

[00:13:15]>> Do you guys do like personality tests?

[00:13:18]We we [laughter] do psych psychiatric psych psychological testing, batteries, interviews, team building, team building exercise, and those are all just in selection.

[00:13:29]>> Okay.

[00:13:30]>> Um once we've announced a crew, uh we start training together.

[00:13:35]>> Okay.

[00:13:35]>> So that's kind of your first order getting to know how people think, how they operate, how they cooperate. Mhm.

[00:13:41]>> And then um we actually use an outdoor training model with a national outdoor leadership school, NLES. And so we'll go we'll take a crew and put them out in the wilderness for 10 days. Um they're it's can be challenging weather conditions um strenuous, difficult, uncomfortable to really strip away the outer surface and get to the core of you know and that's a pretty short time even still right >> but really put people in challenging positions and and conditions.

[00:14:15]>> Yeah.

[00:14:15]>> Um >> it's like a survival reality >> a little bit a little bit but forcing them to really figure out how to work together effectively. Right. And so the core tenants of that particular program that we take into space, it's what we desri describe as expeditionary behavior.

[00:14:31]>> And that is self-care and team care.

[00:14:34]>> And so self-care is making sure that you're doing all of the things that you need to do to be prepared to execute your part of the mission. So that's getting good sleep, eating well, exercising, >> doing your evening study and morning study to understand what this day schedule looks like so that you can be contribute to the overall team's effort, >> right?

[00:14:55]>> That you're not a sink for other people having to come help you, >> right?

[00:14:59]>> But be willing to ask for help if you need it, >> right?

[00:15:02]>> Um so that you can get your work done and then basically look around and say, "How can I be an encouragement to the people other people on my team today?

[00:15:10]how can I be a positive force in in their work, >> right?

[00:15:14]>> And if everybody's looking out for each other, you can't help but have an extraordinary experience. And that's really the experience that I had on both of my missions was um very little interpersonal conflict and just a team effort including the team that we have on the ground to execute the days, the months, the missions, objectives. Yeah, I would imagine it's very hard to kind of cultivate that trust and culture because I imagine like you guys all come from different backgrounds.

[00:15:46]>> That's true.

[00:15:46]>> Different like languages, nationalities and ways of thinking. When the problem occurs, you guys maybe want to solve it in different ways.

[00:15:56]>> Yeah. It's very hard for even me and my buddy like this. We run this channel with uh another person called Eric >> and we did this uh survival challenge.

[00:16:08]We rented out an island for six days.

[00:16:12]>> Okay.

[00:16:12]>> And we just went in there six days. We brought one bottle of water and then we had to figure out like how to climb trees, how to start our own fire, how to fish.

[00:16:22]>> And we almost like we lost it. Almost lost it. So, I it's hard to imagine you have like a group of maybe three or more uh on your crew and then you have to >> really depend on each other.

[00:16:35]>> That's right.

[00:16:36]>> And kind of count on each other to make sure you know the space shuttle is safe and you guys are doing what you guys are supposed to do, >> right?

[00:16:47]>> It's uh >> it takes um >> an incredible amount of trust. And so coming up in the organization, you see the professionalism, the vigilance, the expertise that your teammates on the ground are bringing as they're preparing the equipment, preparing the mission, preparing the research, having great communic communication. I good communication is the currency of trust.

[00:17:11]And so being able to talk with each other about um concerns and to really communicate as a team is is critically important. And that all lead then leads towards when you execute the mission so that you understand >> what the people on the ground are thinking about. You understand what your crew members are thinking about, what their priorities are.

[00:17:30]>> Um and and working those together to be an effective team.

[00:17:35]>> Yeah. And your second mission, your last mission was in 2022.

[00:17:41]>> That's right.

[00:17:42]>> 170 days.

[00:17:43]>> Yeah.

[00:17:43]>> Even longer than your first one.

[00:17:45]>> Yeah.

[00:17:46]How how is that different from your first trip to space? Now you've done it already. And >> that was a that was a gift in so many ways. First of all, on my first mission, I launched on a Soy use um capsule right after training with the Russians. That was such a gift to be a part of that historic space program with so many firsts, first person in space, first spacew walk, >> right?

[00:18:09]>> So to be a part of that system to see how they operate to fly in the Soyuse capsule, which is a design um conceived in the 60s but upgraded over time, right? But still one of the safest vehicles to fly to space in and on my second mission um to fly with SpaceX, brand new company, cutting edge technology, >> right?

[00:18:30]>> Um a different way of training and flying. So to see >> see those two different uh contrast >> Yeah. the contrast between those two.

[00:18:39]>> I had the privilege of commanding that mission. Um and so being able to share my experience uh and then to infuse that to prepare and equip my crew members for their mission for me you know my motivation my first trip >> was just to fly in space >> you know it was that goal that was your ultimate dream >> that's right to realize that dream of looking living and working in space >> right >> after achieving that >> like what motivates me now what you know once you've achieved that goal what's what's next >> what's next And so for me that was to try and um ensure that others have that had that same extraordinary experience.

[00:19:19]And >> so as a commander that opportunity to serve my team to prepare them uh equip them for that for their mission and to have that same extraordinary experience was was that was my motivation and I think uh I think the my you know the crew that I was a part of would agree that that's the experience that we had.

[00:19:39]as a commander on your second mission.

[00:19:41]Would you say your second mission was a little bit more um you were more stressed because you're kind of like in command of this crew and you need to take care of these people. I think that stress that fear come from uncertainty being in a situation that you don't know how to deal with.

[00:20:00]>> Um our training does a great job of training out those areas of unknowns.

[00:20:07]uh training out the uncertainties and so I would say that my stress level because I had already done it before my stress level was lower. Now certainly I had a responsibility for my crew mates and that was important to me. But again they were so ex exceptional >> in how they served as teammates.

[00:20:26]>> Uh exceptional in their leadership, exceptional in their technical technological expertise that I didn't really have to worry about them because through training I knew how incredibly capable they were >> that uh >> that it allowed me to think a little more strategically. Um, and it was just so again an extraordinary experience to have such an incredible team in space and on the ground to work with so that we could just focus on the research and our mission.

[00:20:53]>> Perfect.

[00:20:54]>> Can you can you tell me a little bit about like a day in the life >> on the ISS? Like what do you guys do when you wake up and then when you go to bed? Like what happens in between?

[00:21:06]>> Absolutely. We have a very busy schedule. It's it's uh scheduled down to the fiveminute increment >> which is pretty amazing. [laughter] >> And so you'll often >> time management needs to be like on spot.

[00:21:16]>> Yes, absolutely. You need to be prepared.

[00:21:18]>> Okay.

[00:21:19]>> And the uh and so you'll often hear ISS astronauts talk about chasing the red line.

[00:21:25]>> Okay.

[00:21:26]>> We have a a schedule that has a band that goes horizontally and that represents all of your activities for the day.

[00:21:33]>> Okay. And if you click on that, you can get more information, what tools you need, procedures, all of those things.

[00:21:38]>> Okay?

[00:21:39]>> And so this red line just sweeps across that schedule all day. And you're chasing it to make sure that you remain on schedule.

[00:21:49]>> Our day typically officially starts at 7. And so we'll generally wake up maybe at 6.

[00:21:54]>> What time zone is that?

[00:21:55]>> So we're in the Great [laughter] question. Great question. Because we're flying around the Earth at 17,500 miles per hour. means we see 16 sunrises and sunsets in a 24-hour period.

[00:22:06]>> Wow.

[00:22:06]>> Which means if we were connecting our day to what we're seeing outside, we would lose, right? Yeah. We would lose our mind.

[00:22:13]>> So, we actually control our environment when it's when it's time to go to sleep.

[00:22:18]We close all the window >> hatches. Okay.

[00:22:20]>> Um we turn the lights out, we go to sleep, we wake up, we turn all the lights on.

[00:22:24]>> Okay. Um but it is that day is anchored to Greenwich meantime or we call it universal uh coordinated time >> which means the schedule is great for the ground controllers in Europe >> and pretty crummy for everybody else.

[00:22:38]>> I see.

[00:22:39]>> Um but the day starts at we'll generally wake up around 6.

[00:22:43]>> Okay.

[00:22:44]>> Do our morning hygiene, get breakfast, look at the news on the computer if that's what you want to do. And then >> we get Wi-Fi up there. So we have Wi-Fi on the station that is then connected through our communication system to the ground.

[00:22:57]>> Okay.

[00:22:57]>> And high higher speed Wi-Fi is or higher speed internet connection is actually a little bit of a newer thing.

[00:23:04]>> Oo. Okay. So they have that now.

[00:23:06]>> So you have a good a pretty good connection. It is not a priority.

[00:23:10]>> Okay.

[00:23:11]>> Because we've got a lot of other things to do.

[00:23:12]>> Sure. Yeah.

[00:23:13]>> But um it is great for just kind of behavioral health to be able to >> like connect with your family.

[00:23:19]>> Exactly. That's exactly right. So once you get up also you look at the schedule. You might gather tools that you need you know you need for your first event.

[00:23:27]>> Okay.

[00:23:28]>> And then at 7 o'clock generally we have our morning planning conference. We'll talk with mission control in Houston.

[00:23:34]Talk with all the control centers around the world just to see if they have any updates or comments on the schedule that was published >> and then we hit the ground running.

[00:23:42]Floating >> floating. Um [laughter] >> hit the ground floating.

[00:23:45]>> That's right. And uh and so it might be a maintenance task. Hey, we need you to repair this thing. we need you to install this new piece of equipment.

[00:23:52]Okay?

[00:23:52]>> It might be a research task. Hey, we need you to go to the plant habitat and take care of the the plants for today.

[00:23:58]Draw some samples.

[00:23:59]>> Might be a science where we're the subject where we've got to draw blood.

[00:24:04]>> Um >> and then that basically occupies the entire day. And in there we've got an hour for lunch, which we generally don't take. We might grab some food as we're working on on things. What do you eat?

[00:24:19]>> Like a special like space food.

[00:24:21]>> It is space food. So, speaking of space food.

[00:24:24]>> Oh, no.

[00:24:25]>> So, we don't know if I'll enjoy it.

[00:24:27]>> We've got some uh >> Really?

[00:24:29]>> So, the packaging is actually pretty close. So, most of our food is either dehydrated, >> okay, >> or prepared and then exposed to high temperatures or radiation to kill off bacteria.

[00:24:41]>> Okay. And so being in either of those states gives it shelf life because it'll get launched and may not be eaten for 6 months to a year, >> right?

[00:24:48]>> And so for the dehydrated food, we add water either cold or hot depending on the food.

[00:24:52]>> Okay?

[00:24:52]>> Let it sit for 15 minutes and then it's ready to eat. Okay?

[00:24:55]>> The other food we'll put in a food warmer, put it against a a hot plate.

[00:24:58]Okay?

[00:24:58]>> And that'll warm that pre-prepared food up and we'll >> tear it up and tear this off and grab a spoon and you just eat it.

[00:25:05]>> Oh.

[00:25:05]>> And so things that would come in an envelope like this would be beef stew or chicken fajitas.

[00:25:10]>> Okay. Okay.

[00:25:11]>> Um the dehydrated might be a rice peel off.

[00:25:15]>> Okay.

[00:25:15]>> Or shrimp cocktail.

[00:25:17]>> Now this this is very popular in gift stores. Okay.

[00:25:21]>> This is uh >> freeze-dried.

[00:25:24]>> So we've got some freeze dried >> some freeze-dried bananas here.

[00:25:28]>> Freeze-dried bananas. Do I need to add water to it?

[00:25:32]>> If you were eating this in space, yes, you would definitely add water to it.

[00:25:36]>> Okay.

[00:25:36]>> Here, these are more of a treat. Are we going to eat these now? Okay.

[00:25:41]>> And so >> Oh, I smell it. Yeah. Like >> so banana.

[00:25:46]>> And so it's kind of got a foamy consistency.

[00:25:54]>> Banana chips.

[00:25:55]>> Yep.

[00:25:57]Now, >> not bad.

[00:25:58]>> The the truth about most of this is that we don't actually take this stuff to space because it's very dusty.

[00:26:06]>> Okay.

[00:26:06]>> And lots of crumbs. And so that spreads out and we don't like those.

[00:26:10]>> It just floats.

[00:26:10]>> It will float away.

[00:26:11]>> All right.

[00:26:12]>> So it's great. It's a great thing to buy in a gift store. But uh and the packaging is pretty close to what we have in space. But >> but you also get like dried fruits.

[00:26:20]>> That's right. We do. We have dried fruits.

[00:26:22]>> Um >> you just need to add water to it before you >> Well, actually the dried fruit we'll just eat.

[00:26:27]>> Just eat it dried. Eat it. Okay. Okay.

[00:26:30]>> Okay.

[00:26:30]>> Um so we have an hour for lunch.

[00:26:32]>> All right.

[00:26:32]>> And then we exercise for two and a half hours every day.

[00:26:35]>> Two and a half hours.

[00:26:36]>> So we have two and a half hours set aside. And that includes hygiene and cleaning up and changing.

[00:26:40]>> So we'll spend an hour on the treadmill or exercise bike to maintain cardiovascular fitness.

[00:26:46]>> Okay.

[00:26:46]>> And then we'll spend an hour and we have an hour and a half to do our resistance exercise. So we have a machine that uh provides up to 600 lb of resistance using evacuated cylinders.

[00:26:57]>> Okay.

[00:26:58]>> It's reconfigurable, >> right? Because everything is like almost zerog.

[00:27:01]>> It's all zero g up there.

[00:27:03]>> All zero g. have to these equipments probably need to be like designed in a very like >> the very and so I'll tell you that that that weight lifting device that resisted device >> is a marvel of engineering because it is being used six to seven hours every day with you know lots of moving parts >> right >> and it's um vibration isolated from the space station so you can imagine >> if you're on a treadmill and you're pounding away on the platform >> if you transmit that that force into the space station structure, it's not good for the structure, >> right?

[00:27:38]>> Um if you're weightlifting and you're doing squats and you know kind of banging on the space station structure, it's not good. So the whole thing is >> essentially kind of floating.

[00:27:48]>> Wow.

[00:27:48]>> Which is absolutely amazing. So when you're doing exercise, your feet are on the platform, the bars across your shoulders, and it actually moves like this, like a clamshell.

[00:27:56]>> Wow.

[00:27:56]>> Instead of just kind of how you would imagine a normal universal gem topper.

[00:28:00]>> That's so cool. Okay.

[00:28:01]>> So So cool to watch. so cool to operate and that provides us um that resistance exercise maintains bone health and muscle strength which are again very important for when we return to the earth.

[00:28:13]>> Mhm.

[00:28:14]>> So that's our day then ends at 7:00.

[00:28:17]>> Okay.

[00:28:17]>> A 12-h hour day with exercise and and a meal um in there.

[00:28:22]>> We have our evening planning conference with the ground to just kind of recap the day, talk about the next day, and then after that the evening is ours. And so we'll spend time eating dinner together.

[00:28:33]>> Um answering email, taking pictures, looking out the window.

[00:28:38]>> Um absolutely amazing. Uh we call looking out the window astronaut television. [laughter] >> Um because you're >> you get to see >> it's a good station.

[00:28:46]>> Yeah, it's it's a great station. It's the default. It's the default station.

[00:28:50]>> Um >> because even though you're up there for however many days looking out the window, the Earth is constantly changing. The lighting, the seasons, the weather, >> right? And you're always looking for places that >> right >> you've lived where your family is at, places you want to visit.

[00:29:05]>> And so looking for Taiwan was one of my favorite things to do.

[00:29:08]>> Can you spot Taiwan cuz it's really small?

[00:29:10]>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:29:11]>> Oh, really? Wow. That's amazing.

[00:29:13]>> And so, um, >> Wow.

[00:29:15]>> And taking pictures of those to share with family and friends.

[00:29:18]>> Yeah.

[00:29:18]>> Uh, Taiwan is a little jewel. Yeah. Just a green jewel often shrouded in in clouds and mist. Right. Right.

[00:29:24]>> Absolutely beautiful.

[00:29:26]>> Awesome. And you've actually um went on spacew walks.

[00:29:31]>> I did.

[00:29:31]>> And that I think that's the ultimate like astronaut dream.

[00:29:37]>> You can go under the station.

[00:29:38]>> Absolutely.

[00:29:39]>> But to be in that spacew walk sue and be really literally out in space with just blackness around you and floating in space, not inside the space station. How did that feel when you're >> You're absolutely right. It being in the space suit.

[00:29:56]>> Yeah.

[00:29:57]>> Doing a spacew walk feels like the most astronaut thing to do, you know.

[00:30:02]>> Um and that space suit is a marvel of modern engineering because it is a miniature spacecraft.

[00:30:09]>> It is a a spacecraft that is fitted to your body.

[00:30:12]>> There are no hoses to provide oxygen or power. It is >> oh >> self all encapsulated. the the the pressure, the oxygen, scrubbing carbon dioxide, maintaining temperature. All of those things are done by the backpack on the space suit.

[00:30:29]>> Wow. Okay.

[00:30:30]>> Um and so we spend hundreds of hours in the pool, a neutral buoyancy laboratory, practicing our spacew walks.

[00:30:37]>> Okay. And then getting to actually do it to putting all of that practice to work is absolutely amazing and a highlight of my flight experience because you open the hatch and you go outside >> and you see the earth.

[00:30:51]>> You know when you look through a window, >> you see the frame of the window, >> right?

[00:30:56]>> But when you're wearing that helmet, your whole field of view is occupied by the earth below and then getting to see the outside of the space station. It's not a view that we often get to see.

[00:31:05]>> Yeah, that's right. And so when you're outside, you're you're witnessing [snorts] this incredible structure that's outside and then doing important work out there obviously as well.

[00:31:14]>> Yeah.

[00:31:15]>> And so uh >> but do you take like maybe 30 seconds just to pause >> and just marvel at?

[00:31:21]>> You have to actually force yourself to do that because I do the the tasks are so are so intense trying to get those done, right?

[00:31:27]>> That just taking a moment to appreciate what you're doing is is a very special thing to do.

[00:31:32]>> Wow. Um, and so it's amazing, but it's also a practice of controlled terror because it is also >> you feel a little a little bit of helplessness.

[00:31:45]>> It is uh when you get outside, you recognize that it is just you and your spacew walking partner out there supporting each other.

[00:31:54]>> Right?

[00:31:54]>> In the pool, we have four divers assigned to each of us. If something goes wrong, the suit gets starts to leak, you've got this team that is assembled to grab you, get you up to the surface, and take care of you.

[00:32:06]>> On the space station and a spacew walk, it is you and your buddy, right?

[00:32:10]>> And that's it. And you're relying on each other >> um to get through the spacew walk uh safely and successfully. And so we are well trained. Um, but it is uh I would describe it a little bit as the big game or like a Super Bowl >> because launch landing, you're there, you're monitoring systems. Um, they are dynamic. They're some of the highest risk things that we do, launch, landing, and spacew walks.

[00:32:36]>> The spacew walk is very performance-based.

[00:32:40]>> Your success is based on your ability to to execute effectively and efficiently, >> right? And so, um, it is a it's a tremendous challenge physically and mentally. Um, and once you get inside when you're done, what a sense of accomplishment.

[00:32:55]>> Wow. How long can you be out there for?

[00:32:57]Like, how long does a space suit can um support your life on a on a spacew walk mission >> for me? Um, carbon dioxide scrubbing was the limiting factor. It depends a little bit on the metabolic rates of the individual.

[00:33:11]>> Okay.

[00:33:12]um oxygen supply, carbon dioxide scrubbing and power are kind of the main and then the water supply are the main constraints.

[00:33:20]>> Oh, there's also water. You can drink water.

[00:33:22]>> Well, there's water in the suit that helps to provide the cooling.

[00:33:26]>> Oh, does it get hot?

[00:33:27]>> So, it can get very hot. So, you can imagine being in a >> rubber imagine being in a trash bag or a rubber suit.

[00:33:33]>> Okay.

[00:33:34]>> And exercising.

[00:33:36]>> That heat you can't evaporate.

[00:33:38]>> Oh, that's crazy.

[00:33:39]>> And it can't go anywhere. So there's got to be a way to shed take the heat that you were shedding from your body and to to get rid of it. And so the way the space suit does that >> is we wear a inside inner suit called an LCVG, a liquid um and ventilation and cooling garment.

[00:33:54]>> Okay?

[00:33:55]>> And it's got IV tubing running through it.

[00:33:57]>> Okay?

[00:33:58]>> And water runs through that cold water.

[00:34:00]It picks up your heat and it takes it through a pump, takes it to a sublimator um on the outside of the suit and rejects that heat into space. Oh. Um, >> interesting.

[00:34:11]>> And so you can >> because space is extremely cold.

[00:34:15]>> It can be [laughter] it well it depends.

[00:34:17]>> It depends.

[00:34:17]>> If you're in the sunlight >> Okay. If you're in the sunlight, >> it's 350° F.

[00:34:22]>> If you're in the shade, >> I don't know what that feels like.

[00:34:23]>> It's [laughter] 300. So about an oven cooking uh baking a cake.

[00:34:27]>> Baking a cake. Okay.

[00:34:28]>> Um in the shade it's minus 250°.

[00:34:31][snorts] And so again, a space suit that can work in those temperature extremes is absolutely amazing.

[00:34:37]>> Yeah. But yeah, what an experience.

[00:34:39]>> Wow. Yeah, I cannot imagine. I can only [snorts] imagine what you just described just like through movies, you know?

[00:34:48]We've seen a lot of movies growing up. I love I love space movies and >> every time I see like a a a scene or a shot of an astronaut like walking in space.

[00:35:00]>> That's right.

[00:35:00]>> It's just It must be an incredible feeling.

[00:35:04]>> Some movies do it better than others.

[00:35:06]>> Oh, yeah. Um, anytime you see an astronaut dive in a spacew walk from one structure to another, right, >> with no tethers, >> Yeah.

[00:35:14]>> that nobody does that.

[00:35:16]>> Nobody [laughter] does that.

[00:35:18]>> Cuz if you miss, then you're gone forever.

[00:35:21]>> You're gone.

[00:35:22]>> That's scary.

[00:35:23]>> Um, so we have multiple tethers. We have a safety tether and when we're doing our work, we'll put tethers down to keep us in in place.

[00:35:30]>> Okay. Um, >> extraordinarily challenging. The most physically and mentally challenging thing that I've ever done.

[00:35:38]>> Yeah.

[00:35:38]>> Um, but again, the sense of accomplishment when you've completed a spacew walk is tremendous.

[00:35:43]>> Speaking of movies, have you seen Project Hail Mary?

[00:35:47]>> I've got I've seen it a couple of times.

[00:35:49]>> A couple of times. I heard you spoke to Ryan Gosling about your your life in space.

[00:35:55]>> Yeah. So, >> what did you tell him?

[00:35:56]>> What a privilege to get to be able to consult on that movie. I love Andy Wear's books. Um, >> and so excited to see how they turned that book into a movie.

[00:36:08]>> And so, um, I had the opportunity to chat with the team, the writers, um, and to visit the set.

[00:36:15]>> Wow.

[00:36:16]>> To talk with, uh, >> Ryan and the directors, and the question was really around space walking or no, not spacew walking, um, moving around in space, especially as a new, as a rookie, as somebody new to the environment.

[00:36:28]>> Mh. and they they were portraying it as kind of chaotic and uncontrolled and wanted to know if that was realistic.

[00:36:36]And I see and I agreed 100%. When you first get to space, >> you're just not familiar with how to >> you don't know how to move around. Yeah.

[00:36:45]>> Effectively, >> right, >> and in under total control. And so your first days, you're knocking stuff off of the walls.

[00:36:52]>> Okay. you know, um, during my first mission, our crew quarters are arrayed around a ring in node two. And so my crew quarters were here, Scott Kelly's were here, >> my uh, classmate and crew mate Kima Yui son, >> his crew quarters on the deck and then we had one of our Russian colleagues was on the overhead and every time that I would go into my crew quarters, my feet would bang on Kimmyy's [snorts] door and knock his door open.

[00:37:19]>> Whoops. and uh just very poor uh poor manners to be interrupting other people um and bothering your bothering your crew mates and and that just took time for me to figure out what my body was doing and how to move in a more controlled manner.

[00:37:36]>> And so just sharing that with the team affirmed >> their understanding of like what Ryan moving around >> and their spacecraft should look like and that >> the first time that you're moving around you're kind of out of control.

[00:37:48]>> Wow. Awesome. I love that movie. Did you relate to um Dr. Grace a lot [snorts] when you saw that movie?

[00:37:55]>> You know what's really fun in both of Andy Weir's books and both The Martian and Public Health um or Project Hail Mary >> is that the protagonist >> has a biology background.

[00:38:06]>> Yeah. Molecular biology.

[00:38:07]>> That's right.

[00:38:08]>> And you studied biology.

[00:38:10]>> I did.

[00:38:10]>> Yeah. So I was that resonates with me.

[00:38:13]>> Wow. Um, and it's it's amazing just I think that the the writing the arc of Ryland Grayson not really wanting to volunteer for that mission, right?

[00:38:24]>> And then in the end volunteering to go save Rocky on his own accord.

[00:38:28]>> Spoilers. Sorry.

[00:38:30]>> Oh my goodness. [laughter] Terrible, right?

[00:38:33]>> I'm sure a lot of people can we uh >> No, no, it's fine. It's fine. [laughter] >> But yeah, that that was an amazing story. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good story.

[00:38:42]>> Wow. So having been to space and two times and then coming back down to earth, how has that journey um shifted your perspective or changed your perspective about life? Sure. Or about earth in general?

[00:38:59]>> Yeah, it's powerful for me. It was very powerful because looking back at the earth from the vantage point of the space station right now, you know, my friends that flew on the Aremis 2 mission.

[00:39:10]>> Yeah. You see that the earth is absolutely beautiful.

[00:39:14]>> The blues of the water, the white of the of glaciers and the clouds, um the continents have personality. So, the oranges and reds of of Australia, browns and tans of of Africa and and the Middle East, the greens of um of more temperate areas and North America and and the and Southern America, the aurora, these waving bands of neon green with highlights of purple and pink. It's absolutely gorgeous. But if you look as you're looking out, if you look to the right, you look to the left, you look up and down, is the black inky void of space, >> there's nothing else >> in our vicinity. And you recognize that the Earth in addition to being home is um the only home of humanity.

[00:40:09]>> Our entire history is here on Earth.

[00:40:12]>> Our desire from the space station is ultimately to return to the Earth. and that um [clears throat] you know on the space station we spend about 30% of our time taking care of the space station >> doing repairs doing maintenance >> right >> to take care of this thing that is preserving our life in orbit if the space station breaks >> we die >> right >> it is that simple >> right >> and if we don't take care of it >> and if we allow it to break the we the crew on the space station are going to be hurt as a result >> and then you look back at the earth and you recognize that the Earth is humanity's spaceship.

[00:40:51]>> It's all that we have.

[00:40:53]>> Mhm.

[00:40:54]>> And despite a desire to maybe become a multilanet species, the Earth is home and it's all that we've got right now.

[00:41:00]It is our spaceship.

[00:41:02]>> And I know for a fact that we do not spend 30% of our days taking care of this spaceship.

[00:41:07]>> No.

[00:41:08]>> And so you see how fragile the Earth is.

[00:41:10]you see the change that humanity has has made on the earth and some of it for good.

[00:41:16]>> Mhm.

[00:41:17]>> Um agriculture, producing the food and water that are necessary for us to to survive and that's good and and the right thing to do. Um but you also see that there are things that we could be doing better, >> right, >> to take care of the planet. And so that's something that really resonated with me um that we've got to do better at taking care of the earth.

[00:41:37]>> Yeah. And uh and so between my um after my last mission, you know, I um my boys were in scouts and so I was uh very interested in helping to teach conservation >> and um outdoor ethics.

[00:41:55]>> I trained as a Texas master naturalist and volunteer at a local um nature center. those. It's hard to think what you can do as an individual >> to protect the earth, but if everybody's thinking about it and everybody's doing their part, the net gain >> could be incredible, >> right? That's beautiful. Yeah. Sometimes I think about like I'm only a speck of conscious in this whole wide universe.

[00:42:27]If you zoom out so much, >> Absolutely. you're really just uh a conscious living on a rock, >> right?

[00:42:35]>> Yeah.

[00:42:36]>> Like we're so small. And sometimes when I think of that, um it kind of destresses me because we're all so busy with our daily lives. We have work to do. We For me, I have to think about videos. I have to think about how to manage my team. I have to think about friends, family, inter relationships.

[00:42:58]But at the end of the day, like we shouldn't we should just live in in the moment. We don't have to think so much out in the future or stress too much about or regret too much about like what we had missed in the past cuz >> nothing really matters. We're just here on this beautiful, you know, little sphere and just try to make the best out of it.

[00:43:22]>> Yeah.

[00:43:22]>> And that kind of destresses me sometimes. feels like a very spaceaware perspective.

[00:43:29]>> I love space.

[00:43:30]>> It's great.

[00:43:31]>> I love space. Yeah.

[00:43:32]>> Yeah. That's I think that that perspective is an important one, especially if it d-stresses you.

[00:43:37]>> Yeah.

[00:43:37]>> Um but I think also we recognize that >> um we are all crew members on spaceship earth and that >> spaceship earth >> we need to be uh taking care of taking care of each other.

[00:43:51]>> Yeah.

[00:43:51]>> Like a crew on the International Space Station. Yeah. thinking about each other and how we can be a positive influence and encouragement to our crew mates.

[00:44:00]>> We're all all on the same team.

[00:44:02]>> That's right.

[00:44:02]>> We're all one big family.

[00:44:03]>> That's right.

[00:44:04]>> Wow.

[00:44:05]>> Speaking of family, you have three children, right?

[00:44:08]>> I do.

[00:44:08]>> Do they want to be astronauts?

[00:44:10]>> Looking at their dad like, "Oh, my dad's an astronaut. Maybe I want to follow his path."

[00:44:15]>> We've talked about it and no, no one has voiced that >> that specific aspiration.

[00:44:20]>> Okay. You know, I'm grateful to my parents for supporting my dreams. I remember very clearly them saying, "Hey, you can do whatever you want to do if you work hard."

[00:44:29]>> That's beautiful.

[00:44:30]>> And uh and we've tried to share that with my kids, my wife and I really want them to pursue what they're interested in, what they're passionate about, and to support them in that dream. And each they've each kind of picked a different path and we're excited.

[00:44:45]>> That's good. Lastly, um I want you to share your maybe advice to dreamers out there now. Maybe they have a dream. Maybe the dream is not to becoming an astronaut, right?

[00:45:00]>> But they everyone has their own dream.

[00:45:02]Yeah.

[00:45:02]>> What do you have to say to those dreamers to >> uh motivate them >> um or encourage them?

[00:45:08]>> Yeah, absolutely. Well, have the courage to pursue that dream. the recognition that hard work creates opportunities and opens doors. And so in my own um in my own experience, in my own journey, nobody told me to apply to medical schools or to start taking entrance exam prep, >> right?

[00:45:31]>> And if I hadn't done that, there would not have been that opportunity once I had been kicked out of the Air Force, >> right? And so I like to describe it as um especially this opportunity of becoming an astronaut that hard work buys the lottery ticket.

[00:45:49]>> It gives you a chance.

[00:45:50]>> That's right.

[00:45:51]>> Yeah.

[00:45:51]>> If you don't invest that hard work, you're not you're not even in the game, >> right?

[00:45:55]>> But the hard work gives you the opportunity. And the harder you work, the more doors that are open.

[00:45:59]>> You may find an opportunity that you didn't even know exists. And while that dream maybe isn't realized, there's another dream that is created because of the network, because of the opportunities >> that you've gained through that hard work. Um, and so having invested the hard work and then winning the lottery of this job of getting to to serve as an astronaut. Um, I am immensely grateful for that and for all the people that were a part um that invested in me and along the way. this is not a reflection of my own um successes but really the the success the investment of those around me >> and just like space flight um >> an astronaut does not get to space on their own >> it requires an incredible team on the ground and in space to manufacture the spacecraft to design the software >> to figure out the safety procedures to build the launchpad um team is the ultimate or I'm sorry space is the ultimate team and uh great I'm grateful to be on that team and grateful to have the opportunity to share it with you to share it with your listeners.

[00:47:03]>> It's it's my honor and my audience is privileged to have you on our podcast.

[00:47:09]Really?

[00:47:09]>> I don't think I'll ever meet another astronaut >> in my life. I'm sure you will.

[00:47:14]>> But uh yeah, thank you for coming on to the podcast. At the very end, I have a very uh small gift.

[00:47:20]>> Oh wow.

[00:47:20]>> It's right behind your back.

[00:47:21]>> Okay.

[00:47:22]>> I heard you're a Star Wars fan.

[00:47:24]Oh, [laughter] cool. Oh, that's amazing.

[00:47:27]>> So, hopefully uh you can take this back to >> to home to America. [laughter] >> Thank you so much.

[00:47:35]>> Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

[00:47:37]>> So nice to chat with you.

[00:47:38]>> Thank you.

[00:47:39]>> And that's all for this episode. We'll see you on the next one.

[00:47:42]>> Bye. the [laughter] Ging.

[00:48:40]Korech.

[00:49:05]Fore!

[00:49:24]Foreign! Foreign!

[00:49:39]Fore face on the face. Okay.

[00:50:27]Fore speech.

[00:51:05]Fore speech.

[00:51:43]Um, okay.

[00:52:03]their eyes open.

[00:52:28]Hi Fore kick out of way.

[00:53:17]Okay.

[00:53:44]YouTube, [laughter] Bye bye.