EP’s Claim: "Irreversible" Path Toward Union with Rome & What it Really Takes

Added: 2026-05-22

[00:00:01][music] [music] Hey y'all. Thanks for joining me. It's time for the EP and Pope discussion again because they're in the news again. So, let's go right to it.

[00:00:31]All right.

[00:00:34]So, on the anniversary of Pope Leo I 14th's election, the EP spoke at a Catholic mass in Istanbul and called for the restoration of unity with the RCC.

[00:00:52]This is what he's quoted saying.

[00:00:55]Looking back over the past year, we can only thank God for the deepening reproachment that continues to inspire our two sister churches, Rome and Constantinople. this irreversible path which began in 1964 with the prophetic meeting he thinks it's prophetic prophetic meaning of Pope Paul I 6 and EP Athenogorus has profoundly shaped the journey of reconciliation on which we continue to walk with hope trust and faith in God he says according to him quote the council of Nika is not merely a memory but a hor horizon a point of spiritual or orientation for which from which the path toward the restoration of full communion can once again be seen one other report he attended the mass so he didn't just speak there he attended as you can see he's saying the historic milestones laid down by his predecessors have formed quote unquote quote a living awareness of a shared calling and a shared destiny.

[00:02:10]He expressed his conviction that the NY creed today serves as quote a living bond of communion between the two confessions. He also proclaimed the pursuit of Christian unity through the trans quote the transformation of the world.

[00:02:27]He stressed that the voice of the current pope had become more for many a quote a moral compass in a fragmented world. He uh concludes with expressing the hope that quote the light of the resurrection and quote would continue to guide the Roman pontiff's ministry as quote a sign of hope for all humanity.

[00:02:48]He is already speaking as if the pope is the leader of all Christians and we don't really actually agree with that um as Orthodox.

[00:03:09]Now, my first thought on this you all is that I was wondering if they're getting so close to reuniting.

[00:03:18]You know, he has this idea of, oh, we're going to we're going to do this and that and this and that. And, you know, it's it's it's coming forth quickly. You know, uh we've made so much progress.

[00:03:32]Now, of course, I'm not against reuniting with apostolic churches, okay? Uh this isn't the issue. My issue is what have they actually discussed?

[00:03:48]The only thing I know that they've discussed is that um Pope Leo has said something about the filioquay, you know, that he was going to take it out of the creed, you know, for the for the Catholic Church. We don't know if this actually has really happened. Okay, he's talked about things, but I don't think anything is totally totally implemented.

[00:04:12]I don't know if all Catholic churches are doing that. So, let's let's try to be realistic and sober here. I'm going to share uh I I don't know if you all are familiar with Father Tom Hopkco. Um, I was a huge uh fan of his, you know, listening to all of his podcasts on Ancient Faith Radio when they were out.

[00:04:36]I still listen to them. And he he because he's such a great teacher, he he explains things so easily for everybody to understand. He did a podcast on for us to reunite with Rome. What would Rome have to do?

[00:04:53]So, I'm going to go over some of the things that he said in this list. I'm going to give you a kind of a more summary version because it's a very long um transcript, but I will be posting the link to his talk on this. I will put that in my video description in case you're interested in listening to all of it. It's very, very good. You know, he's very thorough.

[00:05:18]But let's just go over some of the things that the uh the RCC must do in order to join the orthodox church. So we have obviously the filioquay that's the first thing I discussed here uh in the creed because what the they added this filioquay says and the holy spirit let's just go by our creed the holy spirit the lord the giver of life who proceeds from the father who together with the father and son is worshiped and glorified that's ours that's the original ning creed before the change okay from the the Rome that Rome did they added precedes from the father and the son. This distorts the um understanding of the trinity, subordinates the the uh holy spirit.

[00:06:11]I'm going to give you a little bit of information on that on what he says on that because I think it's really important.

[00:06:17]He says first the bishop of Rome would have to confirm the original text of the nine constant finton symbol of faith and defend its use in all the churches beginning with his own. At the very least should some churches for pastoral reasons be permitted to keep the filio in their creed. If that were the case, he the bishop of Rome would have to insist on an explan explanation of the filioquay that would clearly teach that the holy spirit proceeds from the son only in relation to god's saving dispensation in the world in the economia. In other words, the holy spirit who proceeds eternally from the father is given to the world through the son for the sake of understanding the proper relations of the persons of the trinity. The Pope would have to make certain that no Christian be tempted to believe that the Holy Spirit essentially proceeds from the Father and the Son together and certainly not quote from both as from one. Okay? And he says the uh Latin version which was a traditional position of the Roman church at a later time when the filioquay was discussed between east and west. In other words, the creed without the filioquay would have to be endorsed. If for some reason in some places on earth, Roman churches would keep the filioquay in the creed, it would have to be clear to those who want to understand that this does not mean that there is an etern eternal procession of the holy spirit from the father and the son and even not from the father and son as if from one. that would not be acceptable to orthodoxy.

[00:07:59]That's the first thing. This these are doctrinal requirements. Okay. So, there's that one.

[00:08:09]Then we have the Holy Trinity. I did not know this was an issue, but it is. So, the Holy Trinity, this is what we need to understand about that. He says that the pope would also teach that the father and the son and the holy spirit are three distinct persons. Okay, it's three distinct persons or I hypotheasis and not simply quote unquote subsistent subsistent relations end quote within one God, the one God who is identified with the one divine nature. He would have to insist the and ensure that the one true God of Christian faith is not the Holy Trinity understood as a quasi unipersonal subject who reveals himself as father, son and spirit which for traditional Christianity is unacceptable and in fact would be understood as a version of modulism.

[00:09:07]Namely, there is one God who is the father who is the son who is the holy spirit. No, that's a heresy.

[00:09:17]There is one who is the father, one who is the son, one who is the holy spirit.

[00:09:24]Their unity is perfect. Their divinity is perfect. But the divinity of the son and the spirit derive eternally before the foundation of the world before time and or space from the person of the father. The father communicates his whole divinity to his son and spirit from all eternity and the god for Christians is the tripersonal trihypostatic divinity trihypostatic god head. Okay.

[00:09:54]Now the next portion is the the essence and energies. Okay. God's essence and his energies. I've talked about that in other videos.

[00:10:08]So what he says on that the mo the pope also would have to insist that human beings can have real communion with God through God's unccreated divine energies and actions toward creatures which come from the father through the son and in the holy spirit. This is something that the Catholics do not accept. They reject reject this. But in order to be joined with the orthodox church they would need to accept this. It's very important.

[00:10:35]It's very important that you know there's a distinction between God's knowable and unknowable essence. So we can't know his essence but we can know him through his uncreated energies.

[00:10:49]You know this is the communion we have with him. Okay. So that's another important piece. These are these are like pillars in orthodoxy and through uh St. uh Gregory of Palamas.

[00:11:03]Okay. So important information here.

[00:11:10]Now the next issue is the Virgin Mary, the Theotocos.

[00:11:18]You need to correct the dogmas obviously of the immaculate conception and the assumption.

[00:11:28]Okay. Okay. So Mary was born pure but did not require a special act quote unquote to free her from original sin and she truly experienced physical death at her dorm mission before her glorification. We do not believe she was assumed bodily up to heaven still physically alive. We believe that she did die like any other human. You must die. He must go through death to get to the other side as they say. Okay.

[00:12:01]So there's those two things. She she there's no special thing for the original sin and all that. She was born and pure but human nevertheless just like other humans. Okay. Um and and these two things these are uh dogmas as far as I understand at least the immaculate conception is uh in the Catholic church. So that would have to be changed.

[00:12:36]Then we have the purgatory and indulgence issues. Um now he's bringing all this up and this was probably a decade ago or so.

[00:12:48]I don't know if that still goes on the purgatory and indulgences thing. Okay.

[00:12:53]So, but in any case, the orthodoxy rejects the purgatory um dogma in the Catholic Church. You know, it's it's a place of paying off debt basically. And the secession secession of the practice of indulgences, you have to stop that as well.

[00:13:16]It's uh not not an orthodox practice and it's not believed to be uh the correct understanding of what happens after death. And I'm going to bring up what Father Tom says on this because I think it's important to explain this more um in detail. Okay. So I gave you the kind of the summary but I want to give you some more information.

[00:13:49]The pope would also officially say clearly state that though there may be a p purification and cleansing from sin in the process of human dying there is no state or condition of purgatory after death where sinners pay off the temporal punishment and they allegedly owe that they allegedly owe to God for their sins. The Pope would also stop the practice of indulgences whereby through certain pious activities, Christians can allegedly reduce the days quote unquote of purgatorial suffering for themselves and others. I don't know if this is actually still going on in the Catholic Church. I'm just telling you what Father Tom had said in his list at this time.

[00:14:28]If this has changed and they aren't doing that anymore, that'd be great.

[00:14:32]Okay. Now he also says here of course this means that the allegory of the toll houses and orthodox tradition which I believe is an orthodox traditional teaching is not that sinners have to be punished for the sins that they committed on earth before dying according to those 22 toll houses that were formulated in the second century in Constantinople but that they would have to be freed from their those passions and cleansed from them in order to enter into the kingdom of God and therefore prayer for those departed in treating the Lord to be merciful in treating the Lord to give the grace to the people to accept Christ and therefore to be delivered from their sins. This would be the Orthodox I believe understand that would have to be shared with the Roman Catholic Church on this issue. So they would actually have to have that same type of doctrine.

[00:15:23]They'd have to accept that doctrine, that tradition in this in the Orthodox church. I also will tell you that uh people who who trip up on the um toll houses, my son made a really good a really good um argument about the the holy fathers, the church fathers have talked about the toll houses. I mean there's many many many dozen dozen, you know, probably even more than that. There's a whole list of them. But the point is he brought up St. John Clemicus the ladder right the ladder of as of ascent and you see how the the the they're going up the rungs of the ladder and each of those is the steps that we have to learn to to make ourselves prepare ourselves purify ourselves whatever you want to call it through God you know working with God's energies and through you know all the things that we have to do aesthetically prayer confession and all that okay fasting and all the things that we do in our church those rungs are the same thing as the toll houses.

[00:16:33]And I just thought that was really neat that he brought that up because that makes a lot of sense. He goes, "What do you think those, you know, those rungs are?"

[00:16:40]Oh, and some falling off and some not. You know, some the demons are grabbing and taking off the ladder these these these um men and some they aren't. Well, it's like what would happen with with the toll houses is that you are are going to be tempted by things that you have not confessed, you know, sins that you haven't confessed, that you have had a hard time with that kind of stuff that you but if you've made efforts and you struggled against it, then you know, you aren't going to be pulled off that rung of the ladder or in the toll house, you're not going the the demons have nothing on you. Okay. So again, it's the same kind of thing. I just wanted to put that in there. So we have gone from that.

[00:17:30]We're going to atonement. This is another important one because there's this view that God is, you know, is is angry and >> [clears throat] >> uh Christ has to satisfy the wrath of his father. So he is used as a um sacrificial lamb uh to satisfy that wrath. Well, that is not the orthodox view of what happens which you know the lamb was was slain before the foundation of the world and it was a voluntary act by God, a loving act. Okay. And um so it to do to say this this version this wrathful God and you know Christ is the is the one that uh is to take the punishment. Okay. This is not a legalistic issue. Okay. So it's not a payment or punishment and all that. It's a redeeming gift of perfect love and obedience. Christ voluntarily does this out of love. Okay. out of love, obedience to his father, love for his father, love for humanity that he sacrifices himself on the cross for us. He died for us, right? It wasn't out of punishment. It was out of pure love because that's what God is.

[00:18:59]Now, I've talked to some Catholics in the past decade or so who say, "Oh, we don't really we don't follow we don't follow Aslam's, you know, whatever belief on this of punishment, all that." You know, the atonement thing like, "Oh, no, we don't we don't we we believe what you believe," they say. So, I don't know if they've moved away from that. I'm just telling you it's that some are saying that. So again, if that's so that's good. I'm just giving you what these requirements are so that people are aware of what is there. It's not a simple, oh, okay, let's just come back together. There are so many different things going on here.

[00:19:44]Okay. The next problem obviously is the papal authority and cons and the and and there's many things on that one.

[00:19:53]Of course, you know, the infallibility thing. Okay. So you know this this is a radical modification of Vatican 1. The pope cannot teach on his own authority but only as the spokesperson for the consensus of all bishops. Yes. But you know we have that whole ex cathedral thing. You know when he speaks when he's sitting in the chair of Peter he is speaking you know infallibly.

[00:20:18]That's what that means. And no that's not what the Orthodox think. They don't believe that. they they never have. So, you know, you you he he can't teach on his own authority, but only as the spokesperson for a for the consensus of the bishops, which is exactly what would happen with the first council in Jerusalem. You see that in Acts?

[00:20:45]Well, the uh uh St. James was uh the uh first bishop of Jerusalem. So he was overseeing what was going on and we had uh Peter and the rest of the apostles there and Peter was the mouthpiece for the apostles to speak once. Now you'll notice St. Peter says it's it was is good to the Holy Spirit and us because the Holy Spirit works through them in their their coming together for these types of councils. He is the mouthpiece but he is not above. Okay. So see see the the difference there. They had already made the decision together consiliatory all the the the the apostles there and then he spoke for them. That's what the Orthodox are saying here is what the the bishop of Rome the pope is supposed to be like.

[00:21:47]That's his his position and what he's supposed to be like. Okay.

[00:21:53]So the pope serves as a bridgeuer and servant of the servants of God ensuring freedom, openness and respect among all churches rather than exercising jurisdictional p jurisdictional power over them. That's what orthodox that's what father Tom is saying now the he the vicor of Christ. Well, the orthodox uh I mean father Tom says this is all father Tom's stuff uh his words uh but this is the summary of it on the vicor of Christ. What he says is that the affirming is that the holy spirit not the pope is the sole vic vicor of Christ on earth. So I mean obviously Christ is the head of the church. Okay.

[00:22:36]Now we now go to lurggical reform. Okay. So that was all those uh that was all the um doctrinal requirements. Now we're going on to lurggical reform. This is what have would have to be done. See there's a lot to this. We're going to be talking about the sacraments of initiation. So we have baptism by triple immersion and immediate crismation and communion for all including infants.

[00:23:07]Then we have the eukarist.

[00:23:09]Communion must be from the bread and wine consecrated at that specific liturgy. All faithful must receive both the body and the blood. The cup that means from the cup. Leavened bread is the norm. That's what we use. We don't use unleavened.

[00:23:29]Once Christ had had uh uh had risen from the dead, it's no longer unleavened bread. The bread leaven bread rises in the oven which the uh as way I understand it is the symbol of Christ's resurrection.

[00:23:50]The priest should face east the altar with the people.

[00:23:56]The sun rises in the east and sets in the west while the sun is a a a metaphor for God uh Christ for Christ.

[00:24:06]Okay. So Lent and practice. Okay. Now you do know since the Vatican 2 way I understand it they stopped doing the Catholics stopped doing uh the fasting 40-day fasting like Orthodox were doing. They they you know became relaxed on the the fasting and all that. So I think they only do Fridays, Friday fasting and I think Ash Wednesday fasting. Uh it's from what I I understand.

[00:24:41]But for us uh it also it says that father Thomas said it forbids the celebration of the eukarist on weekdays during great lent except obviously for the enunciation.

[00:24:59]So those are important things to know as well that that the Catholics would have to conform to.

[00:25:10]Okay. Now we have administrative and structural changes. Again we have the doctrinal, we have the sacramental, now we have the administrative instructional changes.

[00:25:24]So the election of the pope, the pope should be elected by the local church of Rome, not a global quote unquote college of cardinals and then confirmed by other regional primates. It's how it works.

[00:25:35]Now the pope would no longer appoint bishops for other regions.

[00:25:40]Local senodess would handle their own internal discipline and doctrinal issues.

[00:25:48]Now we still have the Vatican state. So the pope would cease to be a head of state. While he might live in a protected area like the Vatican City, it would be governed by a lay person.

[00:26:01]Now this is the path forward for the radical repentance for both Roman Catholics and Orthodox.

[00:26:12]So Rome's role would uh it must show the way through a radical repentance and a refashioning of the papacy and all that we just mentioned you know in that list that he came up with then orthodoxy's role orthodox Christians must also change overcoming inner struggles for power repenting of ethnic nationalistic divisions and being willing to sacrifice quote unquote quote unquote sacrifice everything except the faith itself for the sake of unity.

[00:26:47]So when you when I read that article and it just sounded like, oh yeah, we're we're getting it all figured out. But I wanted to show wanted to show you all of these issues that have to be addressed in the different categories for the faith. I thought you might find that interesting if you did not know. It's very important to understand this so that people realize this is a lot more to it, a lot more complicated than what is being put forth by the ecumenical patriarch and the pope.

[00:27:27]So I hope that was helpful to you all. I also think it's going to be difficult for all the lay people. I mean there's always there already has been trauma for the Catholics with the the change of Vatican 1 to Vatican 2. There was a lot of people that left the church because of that. There was just so much drastic change. Plus the fact that some of these things that they would have to change as I said before are dogmatic teachings in the Roman Catholic Church. And dogmatic that means the dogmas of the church. Those are those are the beliefs that you have to believe in order it it's it's it's part of your salvation.

[00:28:10]So these are like core important things for your soul for your salvation. If the Catholics have to change that and revise what they have as their or even delete them all together on certain things.

[00:28:25]Um, you have to think of how that's going to affect the uh Roman Catholic lay people.

[00:28:33]How they how are they going to feel? I mean, will they use lose their faith over this? Will they feel like is this is none of this true? You know, you have to be careful with people's souls.

[00:28:45]So any drastic thing like this, this shift spiritually and and and through all these different types of structures and all that can be very difficult for people whether orthodox or um Roman Catholic, you know, you have to have some compassion for this the these type of things for these people. So I'm just saying let's think about all that. There's a lot to do. I'm not I'm not against union uh with the church with the Roman Catholic Church. What I'm against is hastily trying to put together something that cannot hold and it it is probably not blessed by God. It has to be done in the way that it that preserves the the traditional and true teachings of the church that these two big churches can come together in the correct manner through the Holy Spirit.

[00:29:37]That's what I'm saying.

[00:29:40]And we could pray about it obviously and we should. Anyway, thanks so much for watching, for following my channel.

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[00:30:46]So Christ is risen.

[00:30:50]God bless.

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