Reform And The Greens Are 'The Future of British Politics'

Añadido: 2026-05-09

[00:00:00]And the Greens also smashed it in Newcastle Council. How about that? You know, these are fascinating It was a reform. I mean, that that was a children's areas and migrant areas.

[00:00:13]Gawain, that is really a gross exaggeration.

[00:00:15]>> Joining me to review the week are two of the winners of this week, Rupert Reed, former Green Party counselor, now director of the Climate Majority Project, and Gawain Towler from from Well, they really won, Reform UK. A pleasure to have you two gentlemen with me this morning. Thank you for coming in.

[00:00:36]Um Now, it's been nothing short of a revolution, according to some. Vast gains for Reform UK, almost always at the expense of Labour.

[00:00:45]Nigel Farage's party has taken more than 1,300 seats on a pretty high turnout.

[00:00:50]Perhaps Perhaps more seats than the party itself had expected. A decent set of results, too, for the Greens, who took another 370-odd seats.

[00:00:59]There were glimmers of hope for both the Lib Dems and even the Conservatives, especially in London.

[00:01:04]But by and large, the two major parties have managed somehow to alienate most of the country.

[00:01:09]The Tories may be on account of foisting upon us five different prime ministers in nine years. Labour having for for having foisted Keir Starmer on us for two.

[00:01:19]We are told that the political mold is broken, much as it was in 1984 with the arrival of the Social Democratic Party.

[00:01:25]That, of course, didn't last.

[00:01:27]But there seems to be a very potent dislike of what we have had, and the votes have been pouring over to the newly populous Greens and the differentially populous Reform. So, this is this one of the moments in British political history where the world tilts a little on its axis, and the old is rejected, as were the Whigs and Liberals before?

[00:01:47]Or is this new disillusion simply an expression of petulance, and that we have become, in a sense, an ungovernable country, dissatisfied with whoever is leading us? Rupert, is this a kind of we don't talk about council elections in these terms usually, but there seems to be something a little momentous about that if I can use such an oxymoron.

[00:02:08]Yes, and of course we've also seen amazing results in the mayoral elections that have happened with Greens for example winning some mayors. We've seen an absolute political revolution in Wales where Labour's eternal dominance has gone for a Burton. Plaid Cymru have risen to the top. The Greens have broken through on their first Senate seats. I think this is a truly momentous election. I've been arguing since well before the last general election that the future of British politics was going to be largely about the opposition between Greens and Reform. That the old parties are are moving into the dustbin of history. I think that's what we're seeing.

[00:02:45]Yeah, I I couldn't tell Gwayne from those interjections whether that those were grunts of agreement or disagreement. Good morning to you.

[00:02:54]That's just the morning's platter.

[00:02:59]I mean there's no doubt that the Greens have done pretty well. Of course they have and they're going to do well in the council that are upcoming in London I would suspect that except for Tower Hamlets which I think there's been a 200% turnout as always.

[00:03:13]>> [laughter] >> That's that's not very polite Gwayne.

[00:03:17]That's why it's taking so long to count.

[00:03:19]But the No, I think the Greens have done had a had a a successful evening, but I don't yet think that they could be described as a national party. They are very much concentrated in specific areas. But they've broken through in Wales, that's true.

[00:03:31]But I would suggest that Reform's breakthrough in Wales is somewhat more significant.

[00:03:37]He has I think Rupert does have a slight point though. I I we have this situation where there's fragmentation. John Curtice bangs on about fragmentation left, right, and center. But I wonder if we are going to a and it looks like in Wales you've got it in some ways.

[00:03:52]It's a re- realignment rather than a fragmentation.

[00:03:56]When you're tidying a room, it's normally messier before it gets tidier.

[00:03:59]And I think we may be in that stage right now in British politics.

[00:04:03]Look at Birmingham. So, do you think what what would you would you suggest then Gwayne that in future, much as Rupert says, you know, it's a battle between between the Labour left or Green and Reform rather than between Tories and Labour?

[00:04:19]I think this I mean, last night or the night before last, Reform did take Labour by the sword, particularly in the north and the Midlands.

[00:04:27]But it you've got to remember we also in in Norfolk and Suffolk, in Essex and elsewhere, we were taking on the Tories and winning there, too. So, we seem to be attacking from both sides.

[00:04:41]I've I've long felt that if you look at what happened in Northern Ireland with the demise of the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP, and there is a new settlement in Northern Ireland with Sinn Fein and the DUP. And I think we might be finding that in the rest of the UK, too.

[00:04:56]That's very interesting. I mean, Rupert, there was a time, of course, when your party would have been able to attack from both sides, wasn't there? You know, when when Greens actually took quite a healthy bunch of votes from the Conservatives.

[00:05:11]Well, that did also happen on Thursday night again. Greens won in places where you wouldn't necessarily expect them to, places like Worthing, Hastings.

[00:05:18]Extraordinary result for the Greens in Hastings. Look, it's absolutely clear, contrary to what Gwayne has just said, that the Greens are a national party.

[00:05:26]Add up the votes, right? The national projected vote shares put the Greens on 18, ahead of both the Conservatives and Labour. The Greens are in second on national projected vote share. Reform are on first. I think it this very much underscores what I've just said. The future of British politics is going to be these new parties, the Green Party and Reform, and the old parties are the ones who've had a truly truly terrible historically terrible election.

[00:05:53]We're sort of the Green Party sort of not.

[00:05:57]Yeah, I I was going to say Gawain that the Tories Tories have to have some little crumbs of comfort, don't they particularly in London.

[00:06:05]That they're not completely dead. You wanted them completely dead, didn't you?

[00:06:08]You wanted them sort of blown blown out of the water and hung, drawn and quartered. I don't know I wouldn't go that far. But it does feel a little bit dead cat bounce in London.

[00:06:18]I outside in there where are the Tory heartlands?

[00:06:22]It's just as one can ask the same question today, where are Labour's heartlands? They don't have them anymore. And the reason why the whole Andy Burnham thing might stall is because let's go for a safe Labour seat in the North where there is no safe Labour seat in the Northwest.

[00:06:36]Reformists have stopped that and so it becomes a huge problem.

[00:06:41]>> a lot stronger in the Northeast, aren't you than the Northwest? Absolutely.

[00:06:45]There's still this kind of North and South.

[00:06:49]And the Greens also smashed it in Newcastle Council. How about that? You know, these are fascinating and Children's areas and Reform. I mean that was the focus on children's areas and migrant areas.

[00:07:02]Gawain, that is really a gross exaggeration. Like I say, what do you make of our What do you What do you make of our victory in Hastings? Look, I think we could go back and forth on >> Hastings has long been a Labour left-wing town. I think we could go back and forth on these kinds of I think we could go back and forth on these details, but it's actually much more interesting to think about what's happening here and why. And what's happening here and why is that there is gross and severe discontent across the country with the old parties, with the system that is called neoliberalism, which basically means letting business rip. And uh many many people, very diverse people, people voting for Greens, people voting for Reforms, peop- people who are thinking between the two.

[00:07:43]There were lots of potential reform green switches I found on the doorstep.

[00:07:47]Why is that? Because both the Greens and Reform are anti-establishment votes.

[00:07:52]What This is got What we really have to ask next is who's got the vision? Who's got the actual vision to lead this country forward? Which direction, which different direction do we want to go in?

[00:08:02]Because it's very clear that people don't want Labour or Conservative anymore.

[00:08:07]It's a very interesting turn out for the technographic middle.

[00:08:10]Yeah, exactly. Yeah, absolutely. I ought to point out actually while we're talking about all this is the most significant electoral result over the last couple of days came in Middle Till in Leeds where the Social Democratic Party held on to a seat.

[00:08:24]That's one. It's only one out of 20,000, but there we are.