Labor voters: keep this perspective

Added: 2026-05-11

[00:00:00]It might surprise you to learn that in the early 1930s, there was a trial labor split in South Australia that very closely mirrored the one that happened in New South Wales and to a much smaller extent also mirrored the one that happened in Victoria, though the Victorian labor split was on a much smaller scale at least in the 1930s. In the 1950s, the Victorian labor split would be the big one.

[00:00:20]But South Australia split between Lang Labor, the Parliamentary Labor Party in South Australian Labor. So, a little bit of background if you don't know the history, which I'm assuming most people don't. Uh by the way, if you can tell why I'm talking so much about South Australia, that is where my head is at right now in prepping our next rung of by calling Academy modules for South Australian Labor. But anyway, in South Australia, there was a premier called Lionel Hill. Uh Lionel Hill, ex-AFL player, um so fun fact about him. But Lionel Hill was injuring the Great Depression and he was a big believer in the Premiers' Plan. If you don't know the Premiers' Plan was a deflationary economic approach to the Great Depression that prioritized repaying debt and maintaining a good credit rating um so that when the storm blew over, we were in a good position to borrow and rebuild. Um Jack Lang argued that that was a terrible plan. He argued that the priority in the depression was to prioritize unemployment, to spend our way out of trouble, and deal with the inflation that came afterwards because if you have consecutive years of unemployment, that is a devastating impact on your economy that you don't recover from in the same way or that takes you a decades to recover from. And so this is the big split. Uh at this point in history, again, like we hadn't had a depression like this. The the sort of closest one that we'd experienced was the 1890s depression and Australia was a lot more insulated from that one than America was. Um so this one was kind of really disastrous. The world had globalized a lot in the decades that had come since the 1890s. And so the Great Depression was just a lot worse for Australia. Uh and so we didn't really have a similar case study to work with.

[00:01:46]So you have these two diametrically opposing views and Labor has to decide on one of them. Uh and the Premiers' Plan was a deflationary economic approach in which the Labor government negotiated with all the different premiers to reduce their spending collectively so that they could have a uniform deflationary policy across the board.

[00:02:04]However, Jack Lang did not agree with this. Jack Lang believed in expanding the amount of government spending to combat it. And so, he was the big maverick. And it actually led to a split. Like, obviously, in New South Wales, that split became intensified throughout 1931 when Joey Lyons left the Labor Party cuz he thought Labor was too progressive and not conservative enough, and he sided with the Nationalists to become the United Australia Party, and Jack Lang kind of also pounced at the same time. He was very unhappy with the Federal Labor Party interfering with a by-election for a guy called Eddie Ward.

[00:02:36]They ran a Lang Labor campaign. Federal Labor was like, "No, you can't sit with us cuz you're doing your own thing." It was just a very messy situation. Jack Lang causes a rebellion against the Federal Labor Party and starts Lang Labor in New South Wales. And in New South Wales, the dominant Labor Party was Lang Labor. In all of the other states, the Lang Labor was the minority party, not the main one.

[00:02:56]However, in South Australia, it was very complex.

[00:02:59]In South Australia, we had the Parliamentary Labor Party who supported the Premier's plan. But, in South Australian Labor, like, the base of South Australian Labor, the executive of the South Australian Labor Party did not support the Premier's plan, and they viewed that as completely selling the workers out because it's going to create high unemployment.

[00:03:18]And so, they actually voted to expel a whole bunch of members of the cabinet, including the Premier Lionel Hill, from the Labor Party. So, they left and formed their own party called Parliamentary Labor Party. In other words, it could translate as the Labor Party but for adults. That's how they viewed themselves. Even though history would probably actually vindicate the Jack Lang line of argument more than theirs. You had the South Australian Labor Party who kept marching on under their own banner. And you might be surprised to hear that Lang Labor was in South Australia. You would have thought that Lang Labor would have just said to South Australian Labor, like, "You guys are clearly rebelling against the Premier's plan. You know, we will back you guys." But, Lang Labor was >> [laughter] >> Again, that trust Jack Lang to fight like a 10,000 front war. He was also beefing with the Federal Labor Party and because South Australian Labor still had fellowship with the Federal Labor Party, Jack Lang was like, "Nope. We're going in there. We're running our own one, boys." And Lang Labor ran their own campaign in the South Australian elections. This is in 1933.

[00:04:12]Now, the results were disastrous and the South Australian Labor Party, they had a lot of reasons to have grievances against their leader. Lionel Hill, the polling was was terrible. Actually couldn't even find a seat to get pre-selected for the 1933 election and he's the premier.

[00:04:29]Like crazy circumstances to find himself in.

[00:04:32]So he basically got a golden handshake where the cabinet wanted him out of the picture. They didn't want him leading them into the next election. He takes up a very lucrative position as the agent general, kind of like the John Barilaro role, but instead of being for New York instead being for London. And so he sets that job up for himself and gets out of there.

[00:04:49]Good quote. [laughter] Another leader of a major party setting up a state ambassador sort of position abroad. Anyway, so the South Australian Labor Party had very legitimate grievances against Lionel Hill and against the parliamentary Labor Party. So they all ran under different banners and it basically just really complicated the vote. In 1933, South Australia did have preferential voting, but it was a quotient system where they basically the way that it worked was it wasn't it was like a halfway point between compulsory voting and optional preferential voting. Where you did have to number a certain number of people, but you didn't have to number the whole thing. And so like similar to an above the line, below the line, but on a much smaller scale. And so depending on how many like these were multi-member electors, depending on how many members ran in your electorate, that would dictate how many people you had to put down on your list. And so basically, if you could leave the Labor Party out of it or your rivals to the Labour Party out of it, this would often happen for the voters. Uh and so it was infighting, preferences didn't flow through to each other at all.

[00:05:54]And the net result was that and you might be thinking, if you know anything about South Australian history, you might be looking at this thinking, okay, like Labour gets 48% Well, but the three Labour parties combined get 48% of the vote and collectively win 13 seats, the Liberal and Country League win 29 seats with only 35% of the vote. I think I know what's going on there. This must be the Playford the sort of infamous uh malapportionment that heavily favored rural electorates above urban ones in South Australia. And to that I would say, no. The Playford the Playford only comes after this 1933 election with Richard Butler um before Thomas Playford is actually Playford continues the Playford, he doesn't actually start the Playford. Anyway, well, I'll carry on.

[00:06:35]The reason why the numbers are just so bizarrely, like again, Labour 48% of the vote wins 13 seats, uh LCL 35% of the votes wins 29 seats, is the fact that the Labour preferences didn't flow through to each other and the Labour parties effectively shot themselves in the foot even though they were in government during the Great Depression and the sort of public unrest towards the South Australian Labour Party wasn't anywhere near as strong as what it was towards other parties in different jurisdictions. So, afterwards, the Labour Party comes together and all three wings, Parliamentary Labour, South Australian Labour and Lang Labour, and they're like, yeah, we messed up there. That was what were we thinking?

[00:07:13]That was That was idiotic. We all just shot ourselves in the foot and we have given the conservatives a silver platter to go and enact whatever reform they want and they can justify it because they're in the context of the Great Depression. And sure enough, after that, Richard Butler begins the Playford where you basically like the number of rural seats to urban seats were two to one and the the rural vote was so much stronger. I think at one point, like you you found I can't remember which election it was. There was one election in where one of the rural seats was worth 10 times what one of the urban seats was worth in terms of the uh yeah, disproportionate voting power. Um so, the Labor Party shot themselves in the foot. They were very quick to recognize their mistake and came back to the table with a fair degree of humility to reunify. Um And it they gave the ultimate senior uh leadership to the South Australian Labor Party rather than the PLP or Lang Labor.

[00:08:09]Um but they were out of power until 1965.

[00:08:13]Uh because the when the Liberal Country League got in, they set up the system so that it was really hard. Like you had TPP where like the Labor Party was dominating them on the TPP um and still unable to get really close to forming government. In fact, the Labor Party, like this is sort of moving away from the point of the video here, but this is as a fun fact, the Labor Party gave up on a unified campaign. They didn't even bother with like a universal campaign slogan to go out to all of South Australia. They just went, "We're going to go like approach here seat by seat and completely cater our campaign around winning these rural seats that we find really hard to win."

[00:08:49]Anyway, the lesson was learned. New South Wales Labor, again, New South Wales is a much less sensible version of South Australia and I say that as a New South Welshman, we take a little bit longer to learn our lessons uh and so, New South Wales was slower to reunify, but they did uh and Jack Lang eventually stepped aside um and the New South Wales Labor Party was um taken over by Bill McKell. So, I think there's three categories of people of what happens to them after they leave the tent of the Labor Party. Uh so, one is just to become a conservative. That either means joining the Liberal Party or joining the coalition or like Bob Santamaria, just being a conservative voice. He never joined the Liberal Party. Um preferences always flowed through to the Liberal Party under him. And he was always quite vocal in the Labor Party failing to represent conservative Australia on either social issues or in their ability to combat communism. You then look at the others and I mean the word liberal not in terms of parties in um just a liberal. I I wouldn't even use the word small or liberal cuz I'm not thinking like free market individual liberties. I'm thinking liberal in its original sense under William Gladstone in the UK. So, if you haven't listened to the most recent episode of the pod, Disraeli was was the leader of conservatives, Gladstone was the leader of the liberals. Disraeli politics was theater, and it was about animating the people behind a common cause. For the liberals, it was about yes liberty, but more so exercising morality in politics as well.

[00:10:05]Um and so I think often you see what happens to people when they leave the Labor Party is material outcomes becomes less and less of a priority because it just becomes much harder to achieve. Um and politics becomes more an exercise in showing morality as well.

[00:10:19]So, you often hear like where are your principles? Principles not party. Um that sort of thing. Um and then for a bunch of them as we see with like even guys like Jack Lang, they end up returning to the party. Now, yes, I take the point that Jack Lang returned on his deathbed. Um but you see these huge swaths of people come back to the Labor Party consistently um after leaving the Labor Party. Oh, by the way, conservatives the actually better example than Santamaria uh is Billy Hughes. So, during the conscription debate uh a whole lot of people form National Labor, and they end up just becoming Tories um and letting the conservative nationalist government together. Um but then you get cases like Jack Lang where clearly, and you see it in South Australia where a lot of people recognize, "Okay, we need to come back under the one banner." Um and we haven't seen in Australia whether it be the DLP that had unions that supported them, whether it would be Lang Labor, we've never seen even National Labor that was supposed to be an alternative Labor government. They just ended up becoming the Tories and merging with the Liberals to become the Nationalists.

[00:11:15]We've never seen another workers party become viable. Uh and so I think when we think about like a bit of perspective here, what does it mean for us?

[00:11:22]Uh I think the takeaway is that it's always easy to be under the tent. And I mean that in terms of being part of the machine, not necessarily with your vote.

[00:11:29]Um there are plenty of good reasons not to vote Labor if you have grievances with the Labor Party um and you are you know a general supporter of having a strong workers party.

[00:11:38]You know, I've made this argument plenty of times before but you look at the 2011 New South Wales election it's like a whole yeah Labor needed to be sent a message there.

[00:11:46]>> [laughter] >> It reached a dreadful state um where not only do you have Eddie Obeid but you've just got this black hole of people engaging in flat out criminal behavior in the Labor Party. Now you can be a faithful believer in the machinery of the Labor Party and the fact that creating a new Labor Party is not an alternative it needs to be reformed it doesn't need a revolution won't be the answer here cuz there is too much good infrastructure at play to abandon straight away.

[00:12:13]But you'd you'd be in completely justified in putting Labor last to send them a message I feel. So that is someone who's a Labor supporter.

[00:12:20]When I say always maintain unity under the Labor banner I don't mean necessarily with your vote. I just mean in terms of being a member in your party infrastructure and looking to create a new break away party. Uh I think there's a lesson in enduring party frustrations as well.

[00:12:33]Again the premiers plan would have seemed like the biggest thing in the world in 1933 in 1916 1917 conscription would have seemed like the biggest thing in the world. You know, five years later those are not front line issues and so I think there's a bit of perspective like I know this thing feels like it's the biggest issue in the world right now but if you look at you the the perspective of of Labor throughout history often the things that have seemed like the biggest issues have not been the ones that have ended up being the biggest issues.

[00:13:02]And then ones that you know often aren't even included like I don't know let's just take superannuation mega reform from Paul Keating that massively impacted future of the economy.

[00:13:11]In terms of how much it was you know considered the life and death of Paul Keating in in terms of his political career it wasn't as front and center as what you would expect. So again when it comes to frustrations that you might have with the party just endure. When it comes to internal dynamics there are plenty of frustrating things about the Labor Party. Like I know, I talked to people in the Balmain Academy all the time. One guy was basically like, uh yep, um my branch is firmly in the hands of the left, the New South Wales left. He's from the New South Wales right and center unity.

[00:13:39]Uh and he was like, I basically, you know, no one put their hand up for a leadership position, but until I put my hand up for a leader position on the right, then all of a sudden there were like three people from the left who put their hand up to go for the same leadership position to prevent the branch falling into the hands of someone from the right. And, you know, I know people that have not been able to get preselection because of a captain's call or because of uh branch stacking or anything like that. Um they are very frustrating things, don't get me wrong. And it demoralizes you and saps you from energy within the party.

[00:14:07]Um you know, I imagine for a lot of people in Farrer to not get any support from up top. I know strategically it was very good play from Labor um to not get themselves in the bloodbath and make it a uh you know, a right on right fight.

[00:14:19]Um but that would be very demoralizing if you to if you're from um if you're from Farrer to not get uh a tilt um or an opportunity at running a campaign um or even just you you know, pick up uh a number of primary votes to even make a return on investment for for the party.

[00:14:34]But uh yeah, uh there are frustrating things in the party, and the I think the I and I I say this with some degree of confidence, I think the historical answer we get is to endure uh rather than to let it break you. Um I think as well, like you say this all the time of like I I mentioned this in a previous video, how is this not a red line for you? Uh and this is the sort of uh sales pitch that minor parties will often use for someone in the Labour Party to get them to uh leave the Labour Party or to not vote for the Labour Party. And I think there's more of an argument there for getting them to not vote for the Labour Party, but to leave the Labour Party and leave its infrastructure, I think is a different thing. Um yeah, with some really rare exceptions to the rule, like in you know, in if if Albo just started doing a domestic genocide, obviously, then policy comes into the equation here. But I really do think that the whole idea of a red line, um should you leave a party or should you stay in a party? Actually applies for the party structure far more than any specific policy issue. Uh, and so I think like you know, if if the unions were divorced from the Labour Party, then I'm out of the Labour Party because it's no longer a workers party. Um, but really each of those policy issues are or you know, having to take my medicine on a policy that I don't like, these are very overcomeable issues and really probably won't be that much of an issue in 5 or 10 years time. However, the party structure, if we divorce the unions from the Labour Party, in 10 years time, that's going to be a mega issue um, for the Labour Party and for their policy priorities as well. And then I think the other thing as well is uh, again um, if the historical solution isn't to leave the Labour Party, then join your local branch and be an advocate for the policies that you want to see. Uh, I say this all the time. I think when you join your local branch or you get exposure to people in the Labour universe, Dunning-Kruger effect kicks in. Also, the antidote to Dunning-Kruger effect kicks in uh, and you realize that a lot of these issues are far more complex than what you what you uh, at once first thought.

[00:16:22]And that there are you know, a plethora of factors to account for.

[00:16:26]Um, and that the party, it's not for either ignorance or corruption that the party isn't doing the policy that you want. Um, so I would strongly recommend joining the local branch if you do have grievances with the Labour's with the Labour Party, but you do believe in the concept of workers party. Obviously, if you don't think that having a workers party is very important, no need to join Labour, just go join um, and you know, I I don't even know who the major party on the right is anymore after the federal election, but join one of those three um, and push for the agenda that you want. Now, the Buckarton Academy is getting close to reopening back up once again. Uh, as you can see, my brain is very much in South Australia mode. I am working through those South Australian modules uh, and creating them um, to be as accessible and digestible as possible. Uh, so go put your name down on the list if you haven't already. Uh, that list does not lock you into anything. It's just the first people that I contact when new spots open up for the Bokhoven Academy. And Simon Curtain usually comments about 20 minutes in. Um so see if you can beat Simon Curtain today and come up with your best Simon Curtain parody comment.

[00:17:28]And here's the other crucial thing as well. You need to make sure that you get six likes on your comment because weirdly every Simon Curtain comment seems just to have six likes on it. Um but also yeah, when you say him he's literally a bot so don't don't waste [laughter] I know a lot of people gone into bat for me against Simon Curtain. He's a bot don't waste your Monday um because you will literally never get the final word against him.