This Is Why Canada's Economy Is Struggling | Lisa Raitt Breaks It Down

Added: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]The revenue growth increase expectation between now and 2030 is only 20%. But the growth in the debt service charges is 50%. And that is a really big difference because that means you're not making enough to even cut into whether or not it's going to be 50 60 70% higher. And and the revenues being as flat as I'm seeing is really problematic. And it goes to what you're saying, which is what's coming down the pipe. What what do they see? So Lisa Ray, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:00:32]You know, I want to talk a lot about um a few different things with you today because there's been so much going on since we last chatted. But first and foremost, how are you? You are incredibly busy. Yeah, I am. I'm busy.

[00:00:46]And you know what they say, if you want to get something done, give it to a busy woman. And I think people are taking me up on that. Uh I've got a great job at CIBC. I'm in my office right now. Uh we've got lots of great clients. I enjoy working with them. I do a lot of moderating, Jasmine. So, like if somebody's coming through Toronto and they want me to uh ask some questions in a fireside. I like you. I really like people. I like talking to them. So, that's kind of developed into a bit of a sideline for me and I like it. I sit on a couple of boards and I really like that as well. So, life is busy. I like commenting on politics. Um, and I get to say what I want to say. So, I kind of like that too. Well, within reason. I do have a boss like CIBC, but I get to say what I want to say and I appreciate it.

[00:01:29]So, and now I have this new new appointment with um the Liberal government of sitting on their US Canada Economic Advisory Council with some clients of CIBC and some old friends of mine and we'll see how that goes. But I'm going to give my advice. They don't have to take it, but I'm going to give my advice, >> you know, on that. Actually, um I'm I'm curious if you could maybe provide within reason at least u a little bit more detail on that council and its intent. Um and you guys, if I'm understanding correctly, had your first meeting recently, right? Yesterday.

[00:02:06]>> Yeah. First meeting was on Monday.

[00:02:08]Monday.

[00:02:09]>> Um unfortunately, I was uh at a funeral for a buddy of mine and I didn't get to go, but uh he was a campaign worker. His name was Keith Nichols and he was he was my sign captain for two of my elections.

[00:02:23]And you know what sign captains are like? They are doggedly uh tenacious and he was doggedly tenacious and I so I went to that instead I chose but this is what I found out. Look the yesterday was uh an important meeting for the council members to meet each other for the first time. I think they heard from Minister Leblah and they heard from Janice Sheret as to what the status is right now of where we are. I kind of know where we are. So I don't feel like I I missed a whole bunch except for meeting the other people that I hadn't met before. And I guess just they were talking about what the process will be going forward. So I got to catch up on that. But I I'll give you anecdotally what I think is going to happen and how it's going to manifest.

[00:03:07]um we'll meet a couple of times, maybe more than a couple of times, but we are there to help in our particular sector to give advice. But here's something interesting that's happened since the appointment announcement went out. A lot of the stakeholders that I had either in transport, labor, or natural resources, they've actually reached out to me. And indeed, a lot of the companies in the writing that I used to represent have reached out to me and they've said, "Look, we really need to talk to somebody, anyone, about this." And I'd say, I say, "Sure, I'll give you, let's have a coffee, 15 minutes. Give me your information." And that allows me to bring something more to the table that's concrete. Because I think if we get to a conversation of what happens if we give this away, I want to have as close to the ground information as humanly possible. And that's kind of what I'm thinking my role is.

[00:04:01]>> Mark Carney said in an exclusive CBC interview that that just came out that if the Americans were willing, he could get a deal within 10 days.

[00:04:11]>> Are you confident in that that things have progressed? because I understand as well in the fall of 2025 we were quite close to to having some sort of a resolution until um the Ford fiasco is what I'll call it with that advertisement. Um and so do you feel as though there is still still room there for for some really serious progress to be made at this time?

[00:04:37]>> Yeah, I I hope I heard the same thing you did. Um, but I heard it from the American side that we were close on a deal. And that's that's okay because to me the magic in all of this is whether or not the Trump administration wants to do a deal.

[00:04:52]>> So if the prime minister is saying that, then he must have some kind of insight into what is the bottom line for the Americans and the question is what is it going to be the cost for Canada? You know, Pierre Palev rightly says we should have a tariff-free deal because that's what we enjoy right now. And I think that makes a lot of sense. I think that's a hard bar for the government to actually get to. Um because you've you've had great connectivity with the ambassador and you know where he stands on these kinds of things. The Americans want to have a paytoplay kind of thing.

[00:05:23]You're going to pay some some kind of um some kind of tariff as you go across depending what it is. The problem we have right now is that the tariffs are too high on certain sectors and there aren't any on others. pharmaceuticals I saw which is just >> so hard so hard and the so just to give you an idea there's a group of people who make molds for tool and dye in this country that feed into both automotive and into the aeronautics industry and they instead of being charged a tariff on the steel that's the portion of steel that's in their tool and die they're getting charged for the entire thing and they said this can put me out of business in 3 months these are real tariffs for real people. So if he wanted to get a deal in 15 days, it's predis it's predelected on whether or not the Americans want a deal in 15 days and what it is we're willing to give up. So hard negotiations will take longer. Um, but I'm I'm actually if he thinks we can get a deal in 15 days, the fact that he thinks we can get a deal makes me happy, quite frankly, cuz I think while folks may think that waiting out the Americans is a strategy, I just told you a real example of a of a real industry that is thinking about moving to the United States right now. And we can't balance that, right? You know, I think um one thing as well and I'm I'm referencing the CBC interview that Carney did just because I I finished watching it earlier today, so it's top of mind, but he had he had mentioned in there how a lot of the other nations, so you know, talking UK um even some EU EU deals as well as Japan, how the deals that they got aren't good or that they aren't happy about them. Having said that though, I mean most of those nations the tariff rate is anywhere from 10 to 20% on on certain things. So it certainly is much better than 50% or 100% in some of the areas that are being hit hard with us, especially when there's a lot of crossborder movement happening. Um but I I keep thinking to myself, you know, part of the like, oh well, we should hold out for a really good deal. And when you look into the details of those agreements, they're not really legally binding. They could be changed, right? So, if we can at least get something, >> that's not to say that negotiation stops there and that's it. This is what we got for the next x amount of years. It's like this is what we got right now. This is going to seriously help. I mean if you take a look at Japan or the or the UK in that regard they got I want to say they have 10% on some sectors but mostly around 15 to 20%. And um and their productivity is is doing okay. Their economy has had slight growth. They have had fewer job losses. And so while there may be flaws in it, it's better than than having the high rate that we currently do. And at least I I I would argue at least it shows a sign of good faith. Um that that's beneficial at at the very least. So um I don't know. I you know I'm I'm conservative. I may harp on the Liberal government for their economic policy and infrastructure decisions and all of the above. Having said that, I'm a Canadian. I live here and I obviously want them to prove me wrong. That would be my favorite thing in the world with how things are. I want them to prove me wrong. Um, so I'm I'm hopeful that that can happen and that our our sectors being hit can really get some relief because it's been a yearish and um, they're feeling it right now.

[00:08:56]And the mold one you just mentioned as well, didn't that come in like overnight one day?

[00:09:01]>> Yeah.

[00:09:01]>> Yeah, >> exactly. Overnight, one day instead of just being charged on the percentage of steel in the in the actual uh, apparatus, you get charged for the whole thing. But you've nailed it. Okay. So one of the phrases that you used was the most important phrase which is legally binding.

[00:09:16]>> And that is what the Canadian leverage is. KUSMA is legally binding and it's in place till 2036. Done. Period. End of sentence. And he can try to get out of it, but you've got to go through both the House of Representatives and the Senate, not just the President of the United States. So his leverage on us is by making us squeal. and you make us squeal by putting on these security tariffs on the sectors that really do drive our economy. So, he's trying to get us to the table to basically add a tariff, a general tariff, a sectoral tariff into KUSMA. And the question is, are we going to do it or where are we going to do it? And it's a matter of figuring out the damage to the economy because of these 232s versus the damage to the economy with an overall tariff on KSMA. and there's enough people in on that advisory council that can give him a really good idea as to what's going on. The second part of what the government's doing from a strategy point of view, which I have nothing to do with, is the diversification of the economy uh and pivoting away from the United States. I stand firm, very firm, on the notion that a positive trade relationship between Canada, the US, and Mexico is the best relationship we can have.

[00:10:32]>> Yep.

[00:10:33]>> I stand firm on that. geographically speaking alone. Yeah. I I >> That's it. Families. There's families on both sides of the borders. We speak a common language. We understand each other well. And uh we should be able to do a deal.

[00:10:47]>> Mhm.

[00:10:47]>> Right. We should be able to do a deal, but we've got to got to avoid any kind of um you know, any kind of bizarre things happening like please don't send don't put out any more advertisements right now. On that note, I'm curious if you have an opinion because you have had some that have made me laugh very hard a few times watching you on CBC as an example. Um, what do you think about um, Wob Canoe right now saying that the best leverage Canada has is to demand the release of the Epstein files.

[00:11:23]>> Why?

[00:11:24]I mean, well, he got some ink, right? And he got some clicks, but there and maybe he does believe that. And maybe that makes sense from the NDP point of view. I would disagree that that is actually a negotiating point at the at the table for them because they would say, "Who are you?" Like, "Why do you want the files?"

[00:11:44]>> And then it can spin back on you. How do we not know that there's a number of Canadians in those files?

[00:11:49]>> There probably, let's be real, there probably is. There's over three million pages. Like, there's probably tons. And and that doesn't mean that that that's guilty or that it's of these heinous things at all. like that's just because you happen to send an email or something like that does not mean that you're guilty. But uh but no, that's the thing.

[00:12:07]It's such a such a ripple effect overall. I don't know the the way that I kind of view it. To me, it just in regard especially to what we were discussing earlier, the fact that that these tariffs, the impact, the economy, these job losses, all of this is so real. and to to distract away from that and focus on something that for the record the Democrat the Democrats had access to for 4 years and they didn't find anything in there to do anything about it in the slightest.

[00:12:38]>> What like what are we doing talking about this? And I my fear with that I hope that it won't be obviously I don't I'm not speaking this to wish it but my fear is that it will turn into a situation where it'll almost end up being that wedge annoyance that they'll be like nope well not only is Manitoba not putting liquor back on the shelves but they're also being annoying about this thing and maybe that'll hold up.

[00:13:03]You just never know right. So >> that's the role of the prime minister.

[00:13:06]He's got to keep the premers all in in uh in line, for lack of a better word.

[00:13:12]Keep them all calm. You know, this is a one Canada approach to try to to try to get a deal. I do think that, you know, we talked about the midterms. I do think it would be important because you reminded me of something. It'd be important for us to get as far along as possible before then. And my take on it is the Trump administration may very well be very consumed with impeachment proceedings as opposed to negotiating trade deals after the midterms. And we can't control whether or not they they take a different tack in the US in terms of how they're going to deal with their president. And politics is politics and I have no judgment on it. But they certainly could take that that route where they suddenly start saying, "Okay, well let's start the impeachment proceedings on the entire cabinet."

[00:13:55]Yeah. Yeah. Goodness. Um, moving on to uh a slightly different topic now. First off, by the way, I didn't say congratulations on your uh being appointed to that council. By the way, >> commiscerations. Congratulations. You know, Jasmine, you know me. I love my country. I'm going to help how I can, but I'm also going to give my straight advice. Good K Breton advice.

[00:14:15]>> Yeah, I like that. We need it. Um, do you currently trust the the government's economic strategy? I mean, we just heard of a new sovereign wealth fund that is kind of different than how typical sovereign wealth funds operate. So, in that regard, especially given since what's transpired, since the last time we had a conversation at the very least, do you feel as though there are some good things coming that it's going in the right direction? What's your what's your take with that?

[00:14:48]>> I got to see more. Um, we're we're recording this before the spring economic update comes out.

[00:14:53]>> I know it's awful.

[00:14:55]>> Hoping against hope that there's something in there that's going to explain whatever this beast is. I Let me start with this. I am a fan of getting projects out of the government bureaucracies. So I had I helped set up the Gordy Hal Bridge Crown Corporation because we knew we couldn't manage it from within Transport Canada. Had to get it out. I ran a port authority which again government business apparatus.

[00:15:23]It's outside of the department. So I'm not necessarily against this kind of thing. I don't understand what it's meant to do. That's what I can't understand. So I need more information on it. But where I uh you want to ask me about economic stuff. Um I'm going to say it again. He has to build a pipeline.

[00:15:41]>> In order for me to believe that he is serious about long-term economic activity in this country and prosperity, he's got to help build a pipeline. And he has to use the only the the power that only the prime minister has. Quite frankly, his incredible leverage he has to be able to make it happen. He can make it happen. It may be politically incredibly costly, >> but he can make it happen. And that's kind of what I'm looking for. I think that builds a foundation of prosperity that is needed. It's going to have thousands of jobs associated with the building of a pipeline. It's going to have lots of economics coming back to all the provinces. And for once, we're kind of excited about something again.

[00:16:23]And we're back on the world stage. And I think prosperity is good.

[00:16:27]>> Do you think do you think that he would actually do that?

[00:16:33]Like is the pressure?

[00:16:35]>> I do. I do. I do I do think he would do it. Um I think he would do it. I think he's he's look he's really bright. He'll figure out a way to get it done. I think there's political costs. Um and I think he has got a caucus who doesn't want to do it, who thinks it's going to be okay not to do it. So I can't speak for the prime minister, but I don't see any reason why he and Mr. Hodgson wouldn't think that this is a good idea. And by the way, let me put a fine point on it.

[00:17:03]Uh when I say pipeline, I mean pipeline to Tidewater. I don't mean Keystone XL, which is a great idea, but that's an added. Yeah, >> that's not that's not diversification.

[00:17:13]That's an added that's an addition to what we have with the relationship with the US. We need one of Tidewater. And um if they're going to triple, you know, we twin TMX, now we're going to triple it, fine. You know, gas pipelines, fine.

[00:17:27]Going through the north, fine. But it's got real implications. Like the prosperity for First Nations alone on a on a northern pipeline is pretty significant.

[00:17:36]>> Yeah. No, it is. It absolutely is. Um if we had approved things like that even a year ago, >> what do you like I think you know hearing that and for me I come from a long line of rig pigmen.

[00:17:53]I always used to call my brothers that growing up. Uh, I love it. And >> I for my family at least, you know, I've I've been through the highs and lows of it during certain seasons. Um, I still have a lot of family, my brother included, who is still working in in that industry. And I think even for national unity, a pipeline would do a lot in in helping a lot of people feel less disgruntled and kind of as you said as well, in feeling more more hopeful.

[00:18:24]And I I wonder as well had we had we approved something like that right off the gates >> despite the political cost you know utilitarianism the ends justify the means here.

[00:18:36]>> Yeah.

[00:18:37]>> What would our what would our situation look like now? What would our leverage even with the United States look like now had we done that a year or two years ago even? It's a very simple calculation which is we would be able to outlast the US and their attempts of hurting our economy a lot longer to get a better deal at the table. Like it's it's a we would have more revenues which would allow us more time to deal with this opposing force is what it comes down to.

[00:19:05]And um that's that's basically and there' be more more investment and what you know this yourself Jasmine because you're from that world. the innovation that comes off of these industries operating like they're always pouring money into investments and they're always doing R&D and they're always thinking about how to do things better.

[00:19:24]That's why Canadians are so ingenious.

[00:19:26]We come up with fantastic stuff. SAGD, for example, we were the ones that came up with that. Now they do all their fracking and stuff, but we we were the ones that did it. So there's you can't you I'd love to go back two years and and or even a year and say yes, poof, we're going to get it done. But we've got a real issue in that we don't have a proponent right now because the Trudeau administration quite frankly drove away any private investor and made sure that he salted the land behind him quite frankly. So now you've got okay well what are you going to do about takerban?

[00:19:56]What are you going to do about these regulations? And then every time Mr. Hodson and Mr. Carney kind of get closer to saying positive things about it like Mr. Hodson did last week up pop Steven Gilbo. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what we want. And when we say we, let's just be really clear. The polling on this is indisputable.

[00:20:18]>> We are over 70%.

[00:20:20]>> Yeah.

[00:20:21]>> From one province to every province, including BC, we are in favor of a pipeline.

[00:20:28]>> Well, one thing that might be kind of helpful is it's not as though the Liberal government has a caucus filled with opponents. I mean, Marilyn Gladu is a huge proponent of a pipeline.

[00:20:41]>> Um, which takes me into that. There's obviously been a lot of conversation about floor crossers and the implication and that people are choosing Carney because he's a he's a better guy for the job and whatnot. It's been difficult to cut through the noise, I think. Um, and very disheartening as well for conservatives at large. What's your take on that? And do you think let me rephrase this actually. Do you think that >> there is do you think that it's going to be as notable long term as it is in the short term? You know, like I myself at least it's I it kind of seemed as though we want to get to this majority. Okay, we did it. Cool. There's all of this loud noise, but it's just going to fade into the darkness sooner than later. And when election comes, the odds of any of those individuals winning their seat again are are slim to none unless they move writings, which I've heard plenty of rumors about at this point. But what's what's your take on all of that?

[00:21:46]>> So, it'll be interesting. Uh, and I don't think you can paint all of them in the same brush. I think the what I'm going to say probably only applies to Marilyn Glad if she's deciding that she's not going to run again. And I don't know the answer to that, Jasmine.

[00:22:00]I'm not on the inside, but she has an incredible amount of freedom right now within that caucus because she can't leave. They can't let her leave. So, her vote is going to matter to them. And if we're going to be bringing if he's if the prime minister is bringing forward some kind of um legislation that is pro pipeline, for example, um she's going to be an important vote for the prime minister within his own caucus, quite frankly. So when he bringing conservatives over, if you're thinking about it from a game plan point of view is more helpful to him when he has to deal with his caucus who clearly there are some people who hate fossil fuel in that caucus. They're going to vote against it. He needs a bit more of a buffer. Quite frankly, he needs more than that one vote. He needs a lot. But Marilyn is in a very interesting situation because they need her vote and she Have you met Marilyn? Have you interviewed her?

[00:22:58]>> I have not interviewed her. Um, >> she's her own woman.

[00:23:01]>> Yeah, I own shaken hands before once upon a time. So, >> and I know her well and she will argue with you incessantly and she is her own woman and she's very >> firm in her in her arguments. I can't say that she's firm in her beliefs anymore sadly because she kind of left us and therefore I question that. But she is no shrinking violet and she will be it'll be of great interest to me to see if something that is so um I would say incredibly difficult for a conservative to swallow whether or not she'll vote her conscience.

[00:23:39]>> We'll see. Although she's made some interesting commentary on on the women's right to choose and how she's completely flipped on that.

[00:23:47]>> Yeah, that was uh that was very interesting to me.

[00:23:52]Oh, there's so much to it that and I don't want to gossip. Um, but yeah, that was a lot. I think for myself, the the biggest concern with all of it has just been the potential ramifications on democracy in general. And I understand all the arguments. Of course, it's legal. It's part of our system. Oh, the Conservatives voted against it. So did a bunch of other parties. That also wasn't really about exactly this situation playing out. Um, >> yeah. And so I worry about that a lot.

[00:24:22]And you know, um, not to to mention this in particular, but it was something even when I spoke at the convention, that was something that I mentioned how there's so many conservatives where you just have apathy and and being apathetic makes you give up. It makes you, well, what's the point, right? But you'll never hear that from a liberal or an NDP voter. You'll never ever hear that same saying. And it's like, okay, well, you can't give up now because if you give up, that's how everybody else wins. And if you have something that that you want and that you think is is a better path, you have to keep fighting for it no matter what. Um, so I do I genuinely fear for the implications of that long-term or even more separation talk. I I fear for that genuinely because that's not a that's not a good place to be.

[00:25:11]It's not a perfect analogy, but you know, you mentioned the Liberals um and apathy, you know, they're not apathetic, but they were also very vocal that they were not going to vote for Justin Trudeau again.

[00:25:25]>> Yeah.

[00:25:26]>> Right. However, >> good point.

[00:25:29]>> They found a way to win.

[00:25:30]>> Yeah.

[00:25:32]>> Right. They they turned that recognition that nobody was going to vote for Justin Trudeau again into a concerted effort to organize some kind of internal coup. And lo and behold, it worked. I mean, Katy Perry's happy it all worked out, I'm sure. But the uh the reality is is that they had a goal and a mission. They wanted to keep power and they figured it out. And we don't do that.

[00:26:01]>> No. No, that's something I'm I'm very very driven on studying more and understanding more and trying to to figure out how we overcome that because as a much I have so much compassion obviously for people who feel the way and people who are struggling and suffering. I get it and I hear you and I see you but we can't like you can't despite what Mark Carney may say in speeches hope actually is an answer.

[00:26:28]>> Um hope is everything. You know, there's been entire civilizations built upon hope and uh and I I hold on to that with everything that I have because it's the only thing that the government can't take from any of us. It's it's ours ours to keep and hold on to.

[00:26:44]>> Yeah. So, here's some good news out of all of this. I do believe that um this maneuver by the Liberal government to attract non-elected liberals into their caucus has the has the ability of being a spectacular disaster for them >> um because they got what they wanted. So the basically the dog chasing the bus has caught the bus and now what are you going to do? You got your majority and the expectations that Canadians now have. So the conservatives that you know I meet in the grocery store for example who voted for me they'll say I didn't love what happened but he's got a majority now and and now we expect him to do the things that he says we're going to do as a progressive conservative and and when or if he doesn't deliver Jasmine it's going to come back to him because he the voters so you know you know we always say when we lose the voter always gets it right. He's deliberately saying the voter didn't get it right.

[00:27:43]>> It'll come back on him >> if he doesn't succeed at doing what he thinks he's going to do to turn the country around and make it a better place for Canadians. That's the danger because he may be able to do it. And God, 21 years of the Liberal government is just way too much. Like that's a life sentence in jail.

[00:28:04]>> Oh, I can't with you. You're just the funniest person.

[00:28:09]uh you know to wrap this up as well um >> I know that you've been a a staunch advocate for conservatism uh kindness humor always sprinkled in there for sure >> cutting through those stigmas associated with especially women who are who are on this side of the aisle but you've been a a really a pretty loud advocate I'd say as well for PR polyv um unless of course you've changed your tune and I happen to miss that but um what is your take on on him at this moment in time where he stands uh how this plays out cuz you know obviously if you're just listening to the media, you're looking at polls, it would seem as though this is it for the party. That's what so many people keep reiterating. So what's what's your take?

[00:28:54]>> I don't think it's it for the party at all. Um because you never know what's going to capture the attention of the Canadians. And and I will tell you that while Mr. Carney may be uh maybe the one guy that everyone thinks is going to fix the problem with Donald Trump. I don't think Canadians have decided he's the one guy who understands my affordability issues. And in fact, if you take a look at the people that Mr. Carney is seen with, he's not like Pierre in the stands at a baseball game. He's up in the owner's box or he's talking to the head of the cuz that's his world and that's what he's comfortable with. appears comfortable with us >> like normal people and that's could you know definitely hurt them in the long run if affordability does take off. Look at the Rogers announcement. 50% of their employees. I mean I'm sure there are people saying I'd love to take the buyout but I don't think there's another job out there for me and we're not hiring in the government anymore. Thank goodness. At least that's a promise.

[00:29:48]We're not going to expand our government ranks anymore.

[00:29:51]Look, as far I know Pier watches your your uh I know Pierre listens and watches your your podcast. I would say that at this moment in time, look inward to your caucus.

[00:30:05]Make sure you've got the best team possible. Like just love them, support them, help them be better because eventually you're going to form government. And take a look at this as the opportunity to do some serious professional development. and and be selfish. Look within. I think that would be my advice. Why are you laughing?

[00:30:25]>> No, I and I didn't mean to. You kept going and then I I was like, "This is inappropriate. How do I quickly >> Oh, I love that's okay."

[00:30:32]>> Uh, no, I I was just going to chime in there as well. And then you went on a good role. But, um, I was talking about this with my mom recently. My mom, by the way, she is a newfound conservative, voted liberal her entire life. And this past election was the first time she ever voted conservative. I think mostly because of me. And now though, she's actually read a lot more and done a lot more research and she's like, it's it's her now. It's not just being influenced by her children. But um I was I said to her like she's like, "I don't know what they need to do." And I was like, "Mom, I honestly think they just need to have like a staff boil uh bowling tournament or something like like >> I'm with you, Jasmine. That's it.

[00:31:13]>> Just do something like that. Remind like the politics is so stressful and of course there's always going to be people who feel as though they're not heard or noticed. Welcome to any workplace." And that's not to say that um you know to dismiss those feelings, but so much of that can be alleviated, especially in this environment if you guys just had like a relay race together. I don't know. And there were cool prizes at the end. Go play dodgeball. I don't know.

[00:31:38]Just something of that. Especially so much noise. I feel like something like that. It's so lame, but I feel like something like that could could help a lot. Um especially chaotic world.

[00:31:50]>> No, I mean Stephen Harper who uh you know, people like to say that Steven Harper had a had a death grip on the caucus. Well, of course he did because he worked on it every single day, right?

[00:32:01]when it was felt by caucus members and we would be able to tell cuz they would come to the microphone and tell us when it was felt by caucus members that ministers were not listening to them and taking them seriously. What did Mr. Harper do? He read us the riot act as cabinet ministers number one and then he said and now you're going to have an advisory council made up of MPs. You're welcome.

[00:32:21]That was it. Like go back to caucus like John Brousard, Ben Lob, I mean Dean Allison, those guys are gems. They're fantastic. They're my buddies, of course, but they they're fantastic and they have lots of lots to give and lots of uh build up build up the structure internally and then and then go forth and figure it out from there. And uh you know, conservatives will continue to donate. We're going to be there.

[00:32:48]What do you uh last words I suppose to uh to anybody listening right now who feels very overwhelmed by the situation by the idea of there being a few more years of this and in the event that Mark Carney does not deliver. What are what are your words to them?

[00:33:06]>> Focus on the economy. Right. Um don't focus on the politics right now. We've got a big challenge ahead of us. We've got neighbors who are going to be losing their jobs. And you know, I would say volunteer. Find a volunteer organization, work for your food bank, like get out there and help other people cuz there's going to be some pain. The pain may not always be our problem. Sometimes it is.

[00:33:30]I mean, I would say that there's two parts to this. The cause of the pain is the Trump administration. They're causing it. The reason why it's so painful is because we lost the last 10 years of economic development. And we can blame the Liberals for that. wholly no problem at all. But what we need to do now and as regular citizens is to just coales. I'm very much on community.

[00:33:55]I think community is the most important thing. Canada is just a bunch of communities knitted together. Joe Clark actually said that and it's true. We're a Canada's a community of communities and we it's time to stop worrying about the big political picture on the national level. Stop with the polling for God's sake. Stop with talking about changing leaders. Done with that. Look at your own con owner writings. Help other people. If you're conservative out there, channel your energies into helping because that's what you like to do because you're good people.

[00:34:27]>> Thank you so much, Lisa Ra, for joining us.

[00:34:30]>> Great pleasure. Thanks Jasmine.