Theistic arguments are considered weak because they rely on arguments from ignorance (god of the gaps), are not falsifiable like scientific theories, and often use threats and coercion rather than genuine free will to maintain belief. Unlike scientific theories that can be tested and potentially proven wrong, theistic arguments cannot be empirically tested and are often constructed ad hoc to support pre-existing beliefs rather than to convince skeptics.
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Midnight Ranting: Why Are Theistic Arguments So Bad?Añadido:
Heat. Heat.
Heat. Heat.
Woo. What is up y'all and welcome to tonight's a midnight ranting.
>> Why are theists arguments so bad?
That's right.
We are having ourselves a party and asking ourselves why indeed after thousands of years theists have not been able to make their arguments better.
>> Why suck so much?
>> Why suck so much? And I told James, this isn't bait at all. Come on, Theas.
Anyway, won't you join uh James W and myself, Amy Newman, for an open mic that's so good that we may have to invent falsifiability to enjoy it.
Ha.
I see a theist in the chat. Don't go because >> I don't know.
>> I don't know if that's a theist. Is it?
>> Uh uh. I don't know. I don't know actually.
You never know. In fact, just sending love to the chat. You're you're true true. Sending love to theist, atheist.
Anyway, welcome everyone. This is our midnight ranting. I get I get so excited I get ahead of myself. James, uh, please don't forget to like, subscribe, all of the things that YouTube contractually obligated by a bud connection and a cult that we must go on for thousands of years. Yes, the tow.
Anyway, once you hit that bell icon to all, it will allow you to see our premieres and join our live streams like this. Are we live, James?
>> Uh, no. We recorded this yesterday.
>> What? Oh, then we're in the future. Yes.
You know who's not live?
And I feel bad. I'm sending love to this person. This person needs a lot of love right now. Okay. I am sending love to Alex Jones, the recently lost Info Wars.
It is sad. However, I do feel like if you bury the um Infowars in Pet Cemetery and then you take onions, it gets resurrected like with a more Tim and Eric feel. I feel like >> what's he going to uh broadcast somewhere else or >> I don't know. Did you hear about the Onion thing?
>> So, do you know what The Onion is?
>> Yeah.
>> The Onion is right now the current leading bid to buy Infowars.
>> Oh, wow. And their plan right now is to take a comedian from one of their TV shows and make him basically do an Alex Joe's parody like but you know the thing is is would they be able to make it any more funny than it is already? I mean >> well that is >> they make it more absurd. Bro, >> I feel like that level >> it might actually start to sound rational when you onionize it. It sound more more uh >> they basically just the news. They're either just the news or when they create content, there's going to be people that go there and they're gonna say, "Oh, it's the same. This this is this the same guy I always go to. Tim's a funny guy."
James, they turn the fron gay. That's the problem, okay? Is that that is how this happened is that I actually originally was a tadpole. I don't know if you know this about like Jew, you know, Jewish families. your part tadpole yourself, but you know, you become a frog lizard person who controls lasers, even though that person's on our side now somehow. This reality sucks. Oh, this reality sucks.
Anyway, welcome to this timeline, everyone. And we're talking about religion.
>> Yeah, the that Mandela effect [ __ ] is real.
Oh, it unfortunately is.
Anyway, sending >> I don't care. You'll never be able to convince me >> that Commander Riker is not Jonathan Franks. Get out of here with that Jonathan Frank [ __ ] He was always Jonathan Franks.
Is not Jonathan Franks. That was another timeline.
Well, I mean these timelines are crazy.
I wouldn't have predicted the past 10 years, you know. So, oh my goodness. It has been just one crazy thing after another. That's okay.
Good Lego videos.
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
Government.
Oh my goodness. Um, what were we talking about? We're ranting about religion.
Yes. So, oh, I have a speech that I'm going to get into that is very short. I was just excited.
I told James I was able to make a monologue because I can't help it. I keep on thinking about the same thing. I learned about it and now I just have to regurgitate it to others.
>> Um, huh. What what what would that be?
Trying to rack my brain.
>> Well, you shall see because it's so short that if I tell you, it'll basically be the whole thing.
>> How to get the most bacon from Wendy's for the least amount of cost. Like, >> yes.
>> How to customize your order.
>> Most bacon. Yeah.
>> Can I tell you something? Can I give you the cheat code for anyone?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Please tell me.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> Get like a slab of bacon on the burger.
>> It's not about bacon. Okay. This is about if you want to get a good amount of sauce, okay? And they're only or like a good amount of ketchup and they're only giving you like one or two. Okay.
They are really treating they their sauce like currencies. All right.
There's a way psychologically, James, to get over that and to use their own brain against them. Okay. Linguistically, you need to say, "I want a handful of that."
Okay? When you go to the cashier, you say, "I want a handful of barbecue sauce. I want a handful of hot sauce."
And all right. And it is very hard to give you a one or two handful, >> right?
>> You gotta you gotta crane it. I get the crane almost every time, James. And I >> It's like going ass up and asking for a liter of cola.
>> Exactly.
>> Give me a liter of cola. And uh you know the [ __ ] with you says just get a large. You say I don't want a large. I want a goddamn liter of cola.
>> I will say there's one point where that's relevant in life. Okay. And like you I know you probably don't go to this place and so it's not relevant but whenever you go to Starbucks they have very [ __ ] >> I've been to Starbucks once in a while >> okay and their names are such [ __ ] and I order a large every time and I'm glad that they don't make me say it. I would say it if I was out if they ever forced me to do it but they have [ __ ] names. I forget what it's like >> oh is the small one. Yes. A tall is the small one, James. A tall is the small one. Exactly.
I just say, "I want my sugar coffee, please. I want diabetes plus coffee in a cup." And if you could do that as fast as possible, thank you.
so you can get to your job teaching uh future American citizens, >> future corporate leaders of America.
>> Um, >> you're going to grow up and be good little capitalists, keeping the capitalist economy going.
>> Yes, exactly. That's basically every chapter.
>> You're going to be consumers. You're going to consume lots of things that that the wealthy and corporations want you to consume.
>> And you learn about what producers and consumers are. Oh my god, James.
>> So now we have to teach what health care is, I think. No. Um, we should just probably give health care to citizens.
That would probably be the better option.
>> It would make more sense.
Yes, just a little. All the other first world countries are doing it. If all the other first world countries jumped off a bridge, I don't know. They'd have healthc care if they did jump off a Okay. Anyway, >> we are going to get to the religion part, James. Anyway, >> well, religion is a major control mechanism. It's always been that. So, I mean, it's a societal >> system. Pray it all.
>> And don't get me started on the ER.
First of all, everyone who works in the ER is amazing. That's not what I'm trying to say. But like using the but they could go to the ER as a method like of health is so bad. Would you want that for your child? No. like just just just wait to the ER. Eventually, it'll get bad enough er and then it's the most expensive bill for the tax ever.
>> And again, I don't care about helping them get better. It's that it could have been cheaper if we just had actually a heart, a little bit of compassion, a little bit of just empathy.
Oh, we should just open it up to the open mic soon and then I'll just keep on ranting and stuff. It's the same thing.
Just some theist to come. Come on, theist.
>> Oh, and and also it's open bar on gender every episode forever. I don't care anymore because it always was anyway, but like they told me not to talk about it so for so long that now I'm just like hungry for it because it actually has been.
>> You want the trans phobes? Bring them on. Bring on the transobes.
>> Like if it was the 1980s, I would still feel comfortable. There'd still be a gay district and trans and there would still be everyone would still be comfortable enough. they wouldn't freak out by what I was doing. And I hate to tell everyone this. I hate to tell millennials this.
The 80s is it 20 years ago? I love you though, millennials. I'm But I like 40 years ago. That's unbelievable.
>> Yes. And so it's it's just been a while and they were burning not they and the other thing I sometimes get now is like the there were liberals and socialists that were working on LGBTQ rights when the Nazis were around and they're like oh well when did when did trans come about the Nazi time and it's like no no no it's not that the trans came because of the Nazis It's that liberals were there doing well sociology and psychology and then the Nazis were like, "Hey, can I see that book?" Wow, it is made out of paper. It does burn.
>> It's not paper. It's made out of some sort of metal.
>> But they've known about us forever, James. I mean, look like uh Bernie Sanders has been saying the same stuff since the 80s. He's he's been there since the 1980s for gay rights, right? He's never he's never changed his position on that.
>> And I know every liberal I have to obligate and say we could have had him, James. And that's true. We could have had Bernie Sanders and we should have had him. But nonetheless, here we are. I'm gonna keep on talking.
You're going to keep on talking about healthcare and let's keep on talking about religion. All right, we are indeed midnight ranting on why theist arguments so bad. Let's say hello to everybody.
Moon shoes. It's a Rubik's Eliza's back. Spooky bed hair. Sending love. Zarion, hello. Hello. Yes, the videos.
What is up, Azo? What is up, Bri?
>> Bri, good to see Bri out there. Spooky Aso.
>> Um, >> all the cool peeps.
>> I mean, they just have the uh the comedy game down a little bit better.
Who wants to be probombing?
Oh my goodness. But it's okay. They're going to have the straight of Harm open soon, James.
>> Right.
>> And that's I think that's going to be historic. I don't remember the last time.
>> Well, I guess it was open.
>> I mean, it was kind of open back in midFebruary. Yeah.
>> That's true. Okay.
>> Open. But like except for that and for most of history, you know, when has it ever been open?
So, we're this close.
>> But hey, I mean, >> at least we killed their head of state, their religious leader. He's dead, right?
>> And we've also called his new the new religious leader gay. So, I like >> Yes, we've called him gay. I'm pretty sure he has children, but like >> they killed the >> So does Michelle and Barack Obama. So >> we killed the head of state. Uh they replaced him with his son. Uh let's see.
We tried to kill the president, the head of government. He didn't die. He's still the president. He's still the head of the government. Um so what exactly did we accomplish?
>> We are James. We are this close to accomplishing something. And when that something arrives, oh, cuz the thing that you have never heard, I would say in your life, tell me. Come on. Come on. Come on.
This is just a colonial power getting lost in a Middle Eastern war.
When does that ever happen? Come on.
Come on. First of its time. This could be obviously I feel like for a chance for both sides to make money um you know and have a good time >> because I mean uh we we helped out in Egypt and that's clearly in a much better place than it was >> 15 years ago.
>> Everywhere that we go. It's just everywhere. Uh they have slavery again in Libya. So, but hey, at least we got Gaddafi. He Gaddafi is dead. We got his ass. Now they have slavery. But whatever, you know. Hey, >> we went into Iraq and they had freedom for a good year or two. And >> the civil war.
>> Yes. And now I'm pretty sure they're run by the terrorists, right? The terrorists.
>> Same thing with Syria. Syria is run by terrorists >> because terrorists another man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, >> right?
>> And so >> you could I mean you could say you could make an argument that the founding fathers engaged in terrorism, the Union Army in civil war engaged in terrorism.
You know these type of tactics that were were could be construed as that.
>> And let me put a hard line in the sand.
We do not like religious fundamentalists like no.
>> So like we're not pro ISIS, pro Iran, Ayatollah, all of these religious fundamentalist uh leaders can go themselves. But what we are trying to say is our method of going in there for honestly never the right reason ever.
Never. Never once. Not a single time.
Like like the only people who believe that we are going in there for for freedom are unfortunately probably the uh the not leaders of the military like the people who just have to do what they're being told. I would imagine that scenario where I am stuck. Yes. in in all of these in all I I'm I'm pro in a weird way and it sounds bootlickerishly like I should be pro all of the government workers like even the cops because they are government workers. I wish they had a better connection with their citizens. If you're a cop that has a good connection with your citizens, cool. Maybe you're the one that is. But I wish they had better connections. I wish our military deep respect for our military.
Wish they didn't have to do what they have to do. Our leaders know better though. That's the difference. James uh P Heg Seth I burp as I say this. Duis Seth, he knows better. He thinks that this is PS3 and it is not.
When you double tap a fishb like you need to do due process. You can't just murder people and be like, "But drugs."
>> Yeah. I'm pretty sure but murder is actually a higher crime. But the drugs.
>> Yeah. Even though Venezuela the amount of drugs that come fentanyl that comes in the US from Venezuela is infantessimal. It's barely even register. So you by by taking those boats out, you are not even taking out 1% of the supply. You're doing basically nothing.
>> You are killing mom and pops so that you can get head shot on Fox News like and and whatever Max and uh you know they thought they had it easy. That's why we're at war with Iran, by the way, because they had no repercussions before this. So like they kept on >> because Venezuela was a dry run and even though >> the world did not know how we still don't know how to respond to them stealing a president and they say regime change, but that's all they did was steal the same [ __ ] the vice president of that country is now the president. It's as much James it would be like Camala getting elected and you saying it was regime change away I mean from the what the other administration that you had and I'm pro that administration that was a better a lesser evil than nonetheless we have what we have we have what we have don't don't worry about the past I'm coming to my zen I watch Matt Dahoney try to find his zen I mean, Maduro had some issues.
He wasn't a perfect leader, but um >> every time we do this, >> that as it may, is it our job to to dictate their their executive branch?
>> No.
Also, like due process, you can't just kill people. We're supposed to be the good guys. That means that if you think it's a drug bust, you go out there, you arrest them, you take the drugs, you go to court, you say, "Hey, judge, this is drugs. I found it on the boat. They should go to jail." Now they go to jail.
It's >> I mean, they're in international waters.
They're not even American waters. Why are we And so, okay, that >> the whole war on drugs is silly in and of itself, but >> I guess it technically is the law, so they have to do it. But I mean, >> but even if I I agree, the law the war on drugs is stupid. The drugs have been winning for years, but even if you wanted to do things like this, there is a legal way to do it. And so I'm sorry.
It makes you worse than the drug dealers if you're just going to kill them. And you have no way to prove that they were drug dealers. Anyway, I mean, >> see, the thing is they they designated them as terrorist organizations. And so it it puts them under the same purview that >> you know the drones in the drone strikes in Yemen and and over there that we've been doing since uh >> they put them as nar >> 2009, right? Yeah. So >> if if you say they can't attack them, then you know what does that say about our strategy? How we've been taking out the terrorists in the Middle East without boots on the ground. We've been using drones and just killing them from the sky.
>> Well, then maybe we should start giving them due process, too. A crazy thing. We should be giving every human It says in our constitution that we're supposed to be giving everyone due process.
apply to citizens.
>> It doesn't apply to American citizens.
Can I tell you what it applies to very specifically?
>> It applies to any American crime.
So any American crime of any citizen on earth, as long as it's you have to be brought in before the American court system, you are owed due process.
That's why whether you want to call them illegals, undocumented, whatever, they all get due process. And so, >> wow, >> I would do it to Trump. As much as I as much as I want to launch him to Iran right now, I'm just kidding. FBI, CIA, DOJ, whatever the you want to bring out right now because I didn't post seashells. I got to careful what I joke about because again, nothing that I have said has been in the form of seashells so far, so we should be safe. Um, okay. Good thing this hasn't been political. You know what? It's not fair though. Okay. Yeah, we're dropping makes everything such reality TV and then it's so interesting. I can't wait till politics is boring again. It should be boring. Anyway, let's get to our midnight ranting.
We've been ranting, I think. All right, we are talking about theistic arguments, and I'm gonna I'm gonna do it the classic. James, here we go.
>> Do it to me.
>> Oh, ho.
No, I was just talking about, you know, working girls. They're amazing.
Anyway, why do theist arguments suck?
That is to ask, why do arguments for God suck?
The answer is a mystery. But let's take a journey not too long around the 1900s.
Carl Pauper was interested in science and was observing two upandcoming scientists who said they had new theories for explaining phenomena namely Sigman Freud and Albert Einstein.
However, how they went explaining those theories was vastly different.
He observed that Sigman Freud sounded impressive, but he was always pulling from the past.
whether grandma is dead or not.
With Sigman, whenever there was a data point that seemed to just not fit, he was able to figure out a reason why.
Whereas Albert was able to predict the future.
Carl noted that this came with an inherent risk.
Einstein could be wrong.
Like being able to predict where in the sky a comet is traveling or where on the earth an asteroid is about to land.
This came to be known as falsifiability and it's one of the hallmark principles of why science right now is the best methodology of figuring out fact from fiction.
So why do theist arguments suck?
For the same reason, pulling from the past to explain the present will never be informationally satisfying.
If you want to be impressive, predict the future and do so with empirical evidence.
Thank you.
All right.
Felt good, James. It was short, but um it's back in. I h >> Yeah, that that was uh that was short and sweet. It was well put.
>> Thank you. Thank you. And with that, we're going to get to because we could keep ranting forever, but why not just invite with that?
>> I'll make some remarks while we wait for people to come on.
>> And I feel bad. Do you have anything? I at least >> you can send the link and I'll I'll I'll just take a few minutes while while we're waiting for somebody.
>> Sounds good. in fact. So with that, I'm going to get it ready and then when I send it, I'll feel free. Okay. Come join us and tell you and bl and with that come join us. I'll be pitting it. What is up everybody?
And James, I have to ask you, really do have to ask you, why are theistic arguments so bad?
Well, the first thing you got to ask yourself is, who are they for? Um, these arguments, they seem really bad to us because we have taken our our God glasses off. We have stepped outside the box, outside the matrix. And when you're outside of it, looking into it, it's pretty obvious that it's not real, that it's smoke and mirrors, it's feelings and woo, that there's no actual underpinning to it. But when you're inside that that matrix, when you're inside that box and your entire circle of friends, your your social, everybody around you constantly reaffirms this belief, you live in an echo chamber and it gives them these arguments, these things that they say like an air of uh strength like, "Oh, this these these are strong arguments. They make sense to everybody." like um you know like Lee Stroble like the case for Christ with the resurrection. Uh I mean we could look at that and say that is uh just very flimsy, very tenuous arguments. They're not really convincing to anybody, but uh they eat that [ __ ] up. They eat that [ __ ] up because they're desperate to believe they're they're willing to cling on to anything.
It doesn't have to make sense. In fact, that that's not a requirement.
Um, in many ways, the the more >> uh absurd it is, you know, the the more it sounds new, it sounds bold. It sounds uh confident. Um, here's the thing, though.
We we we were watching a debate on a YouTube today on YouTube. Yeah. modern day debate uh where we have iron horse flat earth ai arguing for the flat earth. Now we all know that the flat earth is one of the dumbest silliest things you could ever advocate for. It makes no sense. It is complete basswords stupid from top to bottom. But yet people who are are able to function, they're able to dress themselves and feed themselves and, you know, sort of function, at least we're led to believe that they can still get on camera and make these arguments. Um, and that's because you can convince yourself of anything if you try hard enough. If you are willing to, you know, throw out requirements that that things make sense for for logic and reason and you're just willing to accept whatever slop gets poured in the trough, then yeah, you'll eat that [ __ ] up, you will. And we've seen it. We've seen atheists uh we've seen very intelligent people who uh made the leap who became theists and we could say that they're not doing that because they were overwhelmed by evidence or because they were compelled to take that position because there's no logical way around it. um they they came to that position for in most cases emotional reasons and they shortcircuited their logic centers. They uh basically they overrode the parts of their brain that normally determine what's reasonable and logical. And why is that? And this is the crux of it all.
It's because religion uses threats and coercion.
uses threats and coercion. It does not just say, you know, hey, these are these arguments. Uh what do you think? It says, by the way, if if these turn out to be right and you don't believe him, well, God is going to kill you and he's going to do mean things to you after you're dead. So, you know, even if you think it's stupid, even if you think it doesn't make a ounce of sense, if there's even what if you're wrong, if there's a one in a trillion chance you're wrong, shouldn't you just do it anyway? Shouldn't you just believe it anyway? Um, but these are the same people who will tell you that, oh, uh, God God wants people to love him. He does not want to force people to worship and love him.
That that that's, uh, that's not what he wants. That's not a, you know, he gives people a choice. Well, I mean, really, does he give people a choice? You can either burn forever or worship me.
That's not a choice. That's that's that's robber logic. That's rapist logic. That's not choice. That's not any uh threats and coercion eliminate free will. There is no free will. He uses threats to get worship. Um, and why?
Because spending eternity worshiping him, you know, thinking about that, the probably the only thing that could ever be worse than that would be to be consciously burning alive forever. That would be the only thing that could possibly be worse than mindlessly worshiping this God forever because that's what you're programmed to do and you're programmed to love every second of it. So, yes. Yes. But if you disagree with anything that James said, feel free to join us on the the the stream. I know a lot of people a lot of streams are always like, "Hi, you should join to, you know, to >> the pressure is not on you." And so feel free to stay in chat if you're comfy and you're in a position where you cannot join us. However, if you are in the position to join us, Trump is the I wish he was the antichrist. H just end right now.
Someone could get raptured. Something exciting could happen.
God's real people will celebrate.
>> Jehovah's Witness.
>> Oh, really?
Yeah, that's sounds like >> I mean we're sending love truly. It doesn't matter what type of theist you are. You are part you can be part of our community.
But I am gonna try. You're allowed to be.
>> We're gonna throw out as much bait as we can to get you to interact with us because we can't help it. But yeah, I mean, >> yes, we worship money. Oh, pray.
>> Money.
>> Yes, we worship money. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
>> I actually get a lot of [ __ ] in life because I get told that I should care about money more.
>> Wow.
>> I I I I think it's not the most important thing and there are other things to value. However, I get also told I say that because I was a sports rich girl.
So, you know, I don't know. I mean, remember uh that that was that Goldie that guy who uh has a tattoo of Roger Stone on his dick?
>> Remember remember that guy he debated and he's like, "Amy Newman, what is your net worth? Oh, you mean to tell me you owe more in student loans than you have in the bank? Well, what a loser. But you should be like me."
>> And then and then talked about >> your net worth is negative.
>> Suck it, loser.
And again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't make sound financial decisions in your life. I'm just saying that friends, family, loved ones, goals, aspirations, the people you >> bankruptcy numerous times.
>> I mean, >> like seven or eight times.
>> Yes.
Talking. We're talking >> Mr. Korean. Uh um >> what's up Mr. K?
>> Uh that is true. They they do a lot of uh they they do imprint a lot of their wants and ideas into into God and use that as a way to enforce things. That's uh that's Claire's thing. Remember Claire call she didn't really know if Allah existed. She really didn't care. She just wanted to use uh use uh the Quran to impose Yes.
>> I don't know if Alo is real. He might not exist. He could be fake, but still we're going to impose his laws on everybody.
>> Real law anyway. Yes.
>> So, it's it's a way to sneak authoritarianism in. Oh, okay. We got you.
>> Yes. Exactly.
listen, you know, she's okay with being on the team that forces everything as long as she gets to be, you know, the enforcer.
They're not going to let a woman be in charge of anything anyway. Anyway, and by the way, sending love to all the liberal moderate Muslims, everyone out there truly is the fundamentalist of all the religions. They're all just [ __ ] They go to war with each other. There's no liberal countries at war with each other right now. Ukraine is kind of as a liberal, but they are defensive war.
But I mean, even they have their what's it called side on there. They they always try and >> they have they have a right wing themselves. Yeah.
>> Yes, they have a right wing.
Unfortunately, everybody's got the right wing. I used to argue on 4chan. The funniest thing on 4chan with all the nationalists from all the different countries is there they all agree that all the immigrants from all the other countries are all dirty and terrible people and it's that their country is the purest one and that if they could just have their country be and you're like you guys know you're on international board and you're all agreeing and you're all random people who if you were in the same room would hate it's just like oh gosh like it would look like the United States if we pulled you all in here because we are I'm I'm waiting, James.
I'm not really waiting because it'll take a hundred or 200 years, but one day we're all going to be the same color.
And do you know how all do you know how many of our problems are going to be solved?
>> Zero to one. Zero to one. We're either we're going to get over race and then we're going to think of something new and then we're going to argue over that because that's what unions do.
We're going to argue over hats or something else.
>> Maybe. So, >> humans just like to separate each other for unfortunate things. And uh uh sending love anyway. If you disagree with any of the stuff I say, then please come on here. Everyone deserves their countries.
Yeah, I'm okay with everyone having a country. I just am not well first of all I I have a no religious country policy like there shouldn't be Jewish Muslim or Christian countries those should not exist even the church of England should be separated >> they should be secular yeah >> yes government should be government wherever you go does that mean that everyone has to migrate No, no, no, no, no, no. You know how you have a country and then there are people in there that like stamp the the thing on your ID card so that you can have a driver's license.
Yeah, they don't need to be religious.
The person can be religious, but you don't need God in order to get any of that stuff, including a license to marry. If you want to go have your synagogue or your church or your mosque have a marriage, great.
Fantastic. Go book it. Not trying to stop you. It seems like almost the adult thing, James. I know this took us thousands of years and this is somehow controversial to some people, but like I and they do it anyway. Like the kings of Saudi Arabia in a Muslim country are so they're secular. They're like, "You peasant [ __ ] You should have to live on."
>> You don't think the Saudi princes drink alcohol and do what they want to do? Of course they do.
>> Exactly. Exactly. They do whatever they do though. Though they have been they found oil there. So they have actually been treating their people a little bit better, but eventually they're going to realize and not just want a king.
They're going to want representation.
And that should eventually be secular.
All of them should be secular.
The same with Israel should be secular.
If I didn't say it out loud before, I understand there's just one Jewish state and yet make it secular. too many >> does that it and see I I've made that joke in my head a lot but see when you say it like that it makes it seem like you want the Jews to go somewhere >> right no >> the Jews can stay >> it's the state that can change >> you should not have a Jewish government you want to say I wanted to have um Hebrew as the official language Cool. Make Hebrew the official language.
It should not be a Jewish government.
Very anti-Semitic of you. Is it though?
Or I would say it's anti-Zionist because I'm okay with Jews. I think my parents are pretty cool. I think my brother is I don't know if my brother's still Jewish or not. He gets all upset about having to get a bar mitzvah. Sending love if my brother watches my podcast. I'm just teasing you.
Okay, you're just kidding. I know. Text is so dry. I'm just sending so then I'm sending so much love to you, Jay. I It's And it is such a a hard like line to walk, James, because everyone's at war.
Apparently, it's the first of all, all the fundamentalists are at war. I stand by that with these religious wars.
And so the liberals and the civilians and everybody else has to argue about it when really everyone could share their land. Palestine could exist. Israel could exist. You both could get driver's license that aren't by God.
It's not that big a deal. I'm trying to think of other examples from a DMV.
James, you could pay your taxes to someone other than God. It's okay. It's going to be okay.
>> I pay every tax I owe.
>> Yeah, maybe secular is the term western.
I sometimes get because I say this is western society and I'm thankful for some of the things but some of the things I like about western society I wish had another name because it is truly like secular is like the lack of a hairstyle.
Secular should just be what government is. It shouldn't be called western society style government. It should be called government. And again, if someone's just saying I'm a colonialist or I have imper it, come on and argue with me for it, but I don't want to own other countries.
I understand borders to some degreely stuck in these situations that we're in, but I'm not a giant fan of them either.
They are humanmade and we should remind ourselves they don't exist. They are just on a globe.
Non-religious. It's even more open than that. Without a sect. Sure. I mean whatever we want to call it, it should be just this thing where people believe whatever they believe over here and then over here people get married and they get driver's license and pay their taxes and we figure out who takes care of potholes and bridges.
Like God doesn't need to come down and anoint the bridge. It doesn't matter if it's a Jewish bridge or a Muslim bridge.
It's just got to get people from A to B.
And I get some people say I'm oversimplifying it. I still don't think I don't think that's the case either.
Like that's just in the Australian for rooted rather they see it as anti-religious western style secularism.
Well, I mean we we often get accused of being anti-religious and I would say your honor guilty. Um, but yes, government shouldn't be anti- relligion. Government should actually be neutral. As much as I want theism to naturally go away, and you know, it gets attached. Like I said, I don't think it should be called western style.
Not saying that's what your comment is.
I just know that many call that western style cuz I I can't force religion. We can't force religion away. It never works.
That just makes religion go underground.
>> No, it's it doesn't work.
You you got you have by by us claiming the right not to believe we have to accept that others will >> make the choice to believe even though it's not the choice we prefer.
Also, I'm sending this out there again.
If you're in chat and you like being in chat, don't take that as a you have to join us. But I am just sending that out there. Sending the net back out in the sea.
Come and join us one and all. I'm conflating.
Going to have to eat my wedies for this one.
Ask the rule. I butchered that harder than anyone in any grocery store religion face from votive religion.
I guess what I'm just trying to separate out is that government should be government. That's a tutology and religion should be religion.
And there is should always be a separation of and there's going to be populations of people that are more like I don't care if it's 100% Muslim or 100% Jewish or 100% Christian. It should still be a secular government.
That's Western religions beliefs. That's not Eastern religions.
>> Ah, okay.
>> Trying to understand I mean in fairness and maybe I I maybe we're misunderstanding what you're reading or saying, >> but uh I would say Eastern religions apply the same. Although we mostly cover the Abrahamic religions and the Abrahamic religions are mostly the problem in Western society.
Um, and I could be convinced that some Eastern religions are either more friendly to atheists, more friendly to the LGBTQ, all of those positive things. You know, it's still a religion at the end of the day. And so I have to separate out both you should they should be able to have their beliefs because I don't know what your beliefs are. I don't want you to lump them in. And then you know freedom freedom to believe whatever you want which I guess you know it shouldn't.
It's not just an American thing.
Oh my goodness. James, any more thoughts because I'm about to be right back for a second. Any any thought? Uh oh my goodness. Oh Jesus.
I was about to bring up this one subject. I feel like I should be right back and then bring it up because it'll be we'll talk about it and I'll be here for a hot minute. So GB TB continued.
Hold on. What's this example? All of the Avid data related religions are atheistic.
imping practice based on one pointless meditation.
I see they're atheists, but they're in inressionists or imperialists if they're I don't I'm not a big fan of imperialism, but in practice, one pointlessness meditation. I like meditation.
Can't tell if like or dislike.
Well, we're appreciating having the conversation, Mr. Kan. Keep on sending posts. Maybe clarification.
James, what are your thoughts about either what we've been talking about or just theistic arguments?
>> Theistic arguments are bad. Um, yeah, >> they're not convincing. What was um I don't remember was it Matt Deah Hunty or um it was some it was one atheist who um was talking with a theist and um they're like well what do you what are the good arguments for the what are the ones that are hard for you to refute and he said like actually I don't think any of them are good I don't think any of them are particularly hard to refute.
And uh you know, most of the ones that >> Yes, that was Matt.
>> Was that Matt? Yeah. Most of the ones that might seem a little bit um deep are arguments from ignorance.
They're we don't know this, we don't know that. They're these god of the gaps type type arguments. Um they're not really demonstrating anything. they're just pointing it out to pointing to gaps in our knowledge and understanding um and proposing their solution. So here's the you can make I guess plausible sounding arguments for theism or or theism in general. Um, it it's difficult to falsify the existence of something somewhere in the multiverse that could resemble a god. You know, we haven't been through it, the whole multiverse. We don't know what's in all of them. Uh, we don't certainly have any reason to think that there's a god, but you know, we can't rule that out.
But as soon as you go beyond that, once you go beyond that, the arguments, these are like the the type of like necessary being arguments you get with the Muslims. Um, as as soon as you cross that bridge and okay, you're you're accepting that there is a there has to be a God. So there's got to be a God.
There's a necessary being. And and from there, every time they say, "Okay, well, let me introduce you to that God, all hell breaks loose. Everything falls apart. Every time you actually get the specifics because all these gods, all these religions, they're full of absurdities and contradictions and there's no real evolid evidence for any of them.
They're all they're all very weak.
They're all tenuous. They they're full of absurdity. And um that's why we we get stuck a lot of times talking to people about deistic arguments about u these type of more vague general arguments rather than uh specific arguments about a religion because uh they're reluctant to make those arguments because they're the easier ones to defeat.
Let's see.
Uh, I don't believe in science scientism.
Trust the evidence of the effectiveness of the scientific method. Well, I mean, the scientific method is not perfect.
Um, that let's be honest about that.
It's not perfect, but but it is probably the best method we've had to to learn about reality, to minimize our intuition and biases and get as close to truth, as close to base level reality as is possible. Um, it's just the best we've ever come up with. It doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean um you know we've learn answered every question because we haven't but u it certainly works it certainly done a lot for us >> and I almost made it the topic that you were just talking about James I was going to say why do they hide behind deistic arguments that might be next week why do they hide behind deists >> because they're they're more vague They're more nebulous. They're harder to pin down. You know, it's like trying to nail jello. They're not making any firm claims. So, they can kind of make it malleable. And and dance around what you're saying and you you can't really pin them down. It's like trying to nail jello to the wall.
You can look at all holy book. You can look at the Torah. You can look at the Bible. you can find in the Quran, in the Avedas, you can find things that are stupid or absurd in there, things that are contradictory.
Um, and so that it's a lot harder to defend um unless you're willing to a priori accepted as absolute truth beyond question from the outset. If you're willing to do that, just accept, well, it must be true even if it doesn't look true, I will override my reasoning powers and accept that it's true, even if I can't understand it.
>> Yep. And many people unfortunately do in this country, but around the world. I mean remember the story of uh Pettown, one of our Christian uh uh community members who's uh graced our ch his his our channel with his presence before and his story was um that uh you know he he he being a young man he met a girl that that he that he liked that he fell in love with and uh you know that's That's uh something very relatable, but you know, her her father was a pastor and uh it wasn't going to work without him being a Christian. So she was trying to convince him of it and it got to the point where she basically threw her arms up and said, "Look, I'm never going to be able to make it make sense to you. I can't prove it to you. I can't rationalize it." And um at that point he's like, "Well, I just decided it didn't have to make sense. I would just believe it anyway."
And that's really what what faith comes comes down to. You you're just going to you acknowledge that the arguments are weak, the evidence is thin, you're just arbitrarily choosing to accept it for whatever reason. Of course there is the other side of that is that many of them create arguments which in essence are built for skeptics. That is to say the calam cosmological argument.
All of these different types of contingency arguments and all of these necessary >> that sound really super philosophically deep man. Yes. And they are none of the reasons for why Muslims, Jews or Christians actually believe. No one said, "Oh my God, I saw the premises and conclusion of Colam in the sky.
I therefore am going to become a Christian."
No. What they do generally is they believe something silly, James.
And you don't want to have to defend Jesus coming back from the dead or Muhammad cutting the, you know, the sky in half or the moon. What you want to do is find a really good argument or better yet have some sort of questioning system to really break apart a sane person's rationality. And what I mean by that, James, is how do you not know you're a brain vet?
>> I tell you the truth, how do you know you weren't born last Thursday? How do you know you weren't? and we could do a thousand of these and it's like after a while it's like yeah you're right all of these are great you know is solypsism true but we can't ultimately 100% >> right >> we have to live in a universe in which all of those thought experiments are not at play and Newton's physical laws are because those seem to be what we can actually test.
>> Well, here here's the thing is is that we're not claiming absolute comprehensive full knowledge of the true nature of reality.
Uh we admit that what our perceptions and beliefs are provisional. They're not absolute. They are subject to limitations that we have right now that that make us unable to see past them.
And you know that just is what it is that that we we can't we can't look beyond what we can look beyond. And yet we still have to try to make sense of things. And um so so when we make statements, it's it's based on what what we do know and what the most rational conclusion that we can draw. It's not an actual absolute categorical statement about reality that we just can't make.
Yes, we make working theories in science. Also, anyone who has ever said, "It's just a theory. Please come on."
And they were not either being sarcastic or at least no that they weren't using the scientific because you can say in colloally lay language, right?
>> It's just a theory.
>> That's fine. colloquially, but scientifically >> we're going to use it's just a theory, that phrase to say therefore evolution is not true or the big bang did not happen or we're not 4.5,000 billion years old.
>> Germ theory, plate tectonic theory.
>> Exactly. The earth being round, >> globe theory.
>> Oh my goodness.
>> And and this is what scientists say.
Scientists say that all models are wrong. Some are useful and wait like what does that mean? Like the model of the solar system is wrong. Well, yes.
Somewhere in there at a fundamental level, there's probably some data point that is not 100% accurate. Okay? That doesn't mean it's useless. That doesn't mean what we're saying is it's not perfect. It doesn't represent actual absolute unquestionable knowledge. Uh but it's still very useful. We we could still pretty much predict the movement of the planets pretty well.
>> And the reason that you don't want it to be perfect, what it's saying is that there seems to be a phenomena. This explains it. However, what we know is that it always not to use the same word but evolves. And so we for example Newton's law we thought that's how things worked and thought that's how solar system >> the only laws of matter physics.
>> Yes. Exactly. And then Einstein came along and now we understand that gravity works actually different on different scales. However, we still use Newton's law when we're trying to calculate throwing a ball and things like that. And so, it's not like one technically supersedes the other and yet they're both useful. Does that make sense? And so, it's true that you could say Newton was wrong on some level and yet that's that's the great thing about science. the more information we learn, it's just that we learn that these are just they're different tools that you use at different scales so that you do get the right measure. What's up, Ember?
What's up?
Um, anyone who tells me it's just a theory, I say it's just a story. Very true. It really is just a story. I always say, they always say, "Were you there?" And I go, "Okay, were you there when Jesus resurrected?" What kind of question is that?
>> No, but there were 500 people that were and they saw >> Yeah. Well, I had 600 people when I resurrected for four days. I know.
>> The resurrection battle.
H Well, I want to be a blasphe, you know? Might as well go all in.
But but we get this like argument from from theists all the time like oh what is your ultimate what is your grounding like these presuppositional arguments like that that we like how can you know anything and it's like we can't know anything absolutely yeah that's true we can't we're not saying we can you can't either you're just asserting that you can you don't have any basis for it you're just asserting that you do >> just because we can't absolutely know doesn't mean that we don't know anything right?
>> Which they always try to then jump to.
>> We can be reasonably confident of a lot.
We could be reasonably confident that the Earth is a globe.
>> Be overwhelmingly confident of that even if we're not >> make it simpler than that. We're reasonably confident that the germ theory of disease is real and that by washing our hands it kills germs. Wash your hands. It's a pretty safe bet.
Well, like um like like the the PTOI like the he the uh geocentric model like he had an actual model that that kind of worked um you know before Capernicus came along. It it it was incredibly complicated. It it had things that that seemed to be a stretch but it did work.
>> And that is the difference between a working model. Exactly. There's lots of theories.
A theory that actually works is generally the most prevailing highest level within science. And yeah, there are theories that have been knocked off, but that is science. And it's the peerreview process that generally is a very high bar for you to get over and to get consensus on. Also, James, I would say about we'll do we'll we'll make this about 1:30. So, about 20 more minutes if anyone has any. If not, this will just end up us.
>> You mean you mean we'll go to about two?
>> Uh, yeah. Sound good?
>> Yes.
Under two. Well, by the time we end up wrapping up, but we're the live says 109, so it should be about 1:30 uh an hour. Oh, you're talking about the stream clock. I thought you talking about the time clock >> that probably should have specified.
>> Nonetheless, I'm going to keep out there.
>> Come join us. Here's just the link itself.
>> But but uh Capernicus, he he couldn't prove that uh the Polei geocentric model was wrong. he could just show that his model it accounted for everything the other model did but with fewer assumptions. You didn't need as many it didn't need to be as overly complicated with these you know bizarre ways that the the planets moved and whatnot uh to to make it work. It was more straightforward. It was more >> um it was a cleaner model. Well, you also understand why gravity is just such the flat earth enemy because there are numerous things if people don't like if they haven't debated flat earth. I know you you have James and you've done that.
you know these people and stuff or at least you know as much as any >> I'm familiar with the debates >> as much as any of the debate community has but their their two big gripes are gravity and NASA which is just a very random things but yes they dislike gravity which again I know why after you look into why the the earth is round it's because gravity as a natural force just wants to make [ __ ] balls It's just so easy for just anything that's floating just to eventually if it has any gravitational force once >> it gets big enough >> it will just exactly it's just eventually going to make a ball that's what it does hold on water and then it's just you're gonna get a ball um everything >> oh some of them they say oh well The disc is constantly accelerating upwards at the at the terminal velocity.
>> Upwards where though like the universe is expanding in every direction.
>> I don't know.
>> Infinity.
>> It's being pushed in all directions. You know >> my hands and fingers cannot do all directions. I'm trying to represent it all directions.
Okay. Oh man, gravity work.
Yes, doesn't want to just make balls. True.
Listen, sometimes we all >> they don't understand anything.
>> In fact, we should probably open a ball tickling. What are we talking about? Um, we are midnight ranting on why are theistic arguments so bad and next week I really am James probably going to rant about theistic arguments, why they hide behind them.
>> I've been continuously sending out bait.
We're going to have to probably light this fire for another, you know, a good month or so to to get people.
>> We didn't start the fire.
We didn't. Well, we're about to. Yes, we are. You hear the new Fallout B boy version? I can't do it, but I like >> Yeah, they did an updated version. They updated all the references and things, >> but I don't know how to sing the song yet.
Good to hear you in spirit. I value mathematical elegance and I like AAM's razor represents a minimizing necessary assumptions. Both are ultimately unreliable truism. Yeah, they're good, you know, rules of thumb. You should generally I I will tell you this that first uh when you're editing things, editing is generally a removal process and so removing things is a good way to get cleaner material, cleaner ideas.
Uh it's not always 100% the best, but you should try to simplify things for for people and for >> you know the reality is no. The the simplest explanation is not necessarily always true. Some things are more complicated than that. Some things can be oversimplified and and that's true. Um it it just in that case of uh helio centrum versus geocentrism the the simpler more straightforward model uh won out. It wasn't proven correct just because uh it was simpler. It was proven with evidence. It just made more sense because it was simpler.
>> I agree. Unfortunately, complicated things are necessary explanations.
Sometimes I think when they're overly complicated, that's just us not understanding it. That's why I think quantum mechanics >> is so hard because it's just the the edge of what we understand.
And so, but you know, >> it's a uh Hegelian dialectic, you know, with quantum mechanics.
>> Um because who can make good arguments work elsewhere? I will say that uh that is the other thing. Number one, they they put God in the conclusion all the time and they they ne don't include him or her sneak in >> in the the premises which is always weird. Like Colam, they never put them in Colam. Um or very few do.
>> He's the necessary being.
>> Exactly. It's also ad hoc. That is to say, they make the arguments afterwards.
Like these arguments are >> a special in essence designed for either >> or to keep people who already believe.
And it's like, you know, I I I saw Jesus on the way to work or they were in my toast and yet I probably need a better logical explanation than that.
>> But yeah, you know, it's like >> No, no, go James.
>> I was just gonna say quick, it's like when Kenov says, "Oh, the Bible says all they will bring forth after their kind."
And that's what we observe. They animals bring forth after their kind. Well, that's not the Bible making a prediction. That's the authors seeing what happens and writing it down. It's, >> you know, they're making their story fit reality, not the other way around.
>> And that's what I was trying to talk about in my my opening is that it's easy to go into the past and predict the present. It is way harder to take information past or present and predict the future. Yes. Um but um oh the third thing is that it kind of inspired me Amber kind of inspired me to think of something that you know the good stuff actually becomes science. Like if that's why I dislike the term alternative medicine because there's either I mean alternative is really being nice because if it's actual medicine then it get it passes the test right. Yes.
Sending love to all the alternative medicine people out there. I'm just saying that like you know you don't need astrology.
You don't need >> homeopathy.
>> Homeopathy.
All you need is chemistry and biology and medicine derived from the first two fields.
There was there was a Twitch person in chat that uh >> a spammer >> trying Yeah. And I was trying to get my no emoji because I could just delete them and yet I get a sick like pleasure from going back at spammers and I still pick up phone calls that uh oh wow it's all these things so used to Discord I need a freaking spray emoji just to go to the it's like a like a spray bottle like you do to a cat. It's what I feel like doing to all these spammers.
>> Well, that's that's very right. is that um you know a lot of these ideas are presented to to people a as children uh by people they trust and that these ideas are >> you know taught to them before they really understand reality and can engage in critical thinking and and whatnot. So they they kind of get smuggled in and just assumed they don't really get logically tested because you know they made it made the cut off before you know you start really being able to think critically.
Well, and that is the other irony is that they >> basically say that LGBTQ should not exist within social life because they are going to make children gay. They're going to indoctrinate them.
At the very least, they are going to push their ideology onto them, whatever that means. You then look at religion and you ask them, well, do you think that it children should go to church or go to synagogue or go to a mosque?
>> Do you think they should read the Bible, the Torah? Exactly. Of course. Of course. And do you know what the number one answer they always give me?
>> What's that?
>> But that's because it's right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh, okay. Well, I didn't know it was right.
Well, then by all means, indoctrinate them with rightness.
And so, they want to indoctrinate. It's just that they want it to be the right ideology, if I could even speak, >> right? Because I I mean, you can you can look through the like the Bible. You can look through a holy book and find uh you know, things that are similar between other ones. Well, oh yeah, but but mine is the right one. So, you know, >> yes, of course, of all of them you found it in your very specific town, your parents that forced it on you. And again, I love my parents. They for they forced it. And by force, I mean it's just what they what people do.
>> It wasn't it was unfortunately >> how things are done. It's not like there was any thought put into it.
It was literally just whatever day because the the Jews have Friday and no no Muslims of Friday and Jews of Saturday and Christians of Sunday. Everyone has a day of the weekend. James.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, this is a great Christian adults freak me out as a little kid. From an early age, fiveish, I felt the pressure of their makebelieve and their anger when I don't get it. Oh, got you. See, I had the perfect out. There is no literally, and I feel bad saying this, there's no better out than telling a Christian you are a Jew. And I'll tell you why in a second.
>> Oh boy.
>> Now, listen. This doesn't work probably in the south, okay? Or at least for a good segment of the south, but at least here in the north, Christians just go, "Oh, that's Christianish.
I don't understand it." But, and I hate to say, they view it as a white religion. And so many of them go, "Oh, okay."
Um because the religion has what I call especially with the Abrahamic religions backwards compatibility.
That is to say that the Christians want to claim the Jews and the Muslims want to claim the Christians and the Jews. And yet Christians not always big fan of Muslims. Jews, not always big fan of Christians or Muslim. In other words, not backwards compatible. Um, and so when I tell them that I'm a Jew, they want to attach themselves to that and they go, "Oh, I think our our don't we worship one of those? Cool."
And you go, "Yeah, I think he was pretty."
You saw the the the the AI image I sent you of the ecumenical meeting between the um the reptilian alien rabbi and the gray alien Islamic im.
>> Oh my god.
>> An ecumenical event.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Two face one creation. Yeah.
>> James, you brought me and we only have like we only have like 10 minutes or probably I couldn't help myself. This is the perfect subject to end us on. Okay, James, are they coming for us? Are they w Are they watching us? And I'm not >> They're coming to take me away.
>> Haha.
The Did you watch that video that I sent you? I can't help it. I am a big fan.
>> I did not get to watch it yet.
>> You should watch it. It's I think you will appreciate it. He's because he he he's almost open to because he said he almost believed half what what you said.
But but then releasing it right now right now would be I I think a little bit of it's a version but you know you never know.
>> Oh I I don't I don't think so.
>> You don't think so? No, not not at least not at least what they're doing now. It's so under the radar. It's not really diverting much media attention. Um maybe uh well, the word is 60 to 90 days is when we're supposed to get the good stuff, like the the shocking stuff. that will if if that pans out that will be uh obviously much more significant than what we see but who knows exactly what what's going to come out when.
>> I have two questions for you. Number one, do you think that ice has the ability to arrest aliens from a different planet?
Uh, well, did you you remember the cone heads >> from the 90s? The movie? Yeah.
>> Trying to rest the cone heads.
>> Maybe.
>> Okay, that's that is what I in essence what I'm asking. Okay, good. That I'm looking forward to that. Maybe maybe the code heads will save Jose. You never know. I'm looking forward to it. Okay, number two.
I would like to speak directly to the aliens right now. Okay. I don't know if you're hostile and I don't know if you're friendly. Please take over.
Please. Please. It'll be better. It'll be better. I know you could have done it before, right? So, just do it now. I'll be waiting.
>> Well, >> you can wake me up with the Apple Watch.
We'll make this work. Please, aliens.
Please. Pro. I'll take a pro. I will take one for the team.
>> I I've been saying you you know why have you been missing out? Why have Why have you not been getting Why are they probing people against their will?
>> Why have to go >> when they have someone who volunteering?
>> I need to go into like a cord field or something. This is ridiculous.
Nonetheless, I am waiting.
>> I mean, it all depends how far down the rabbit hole things go. We We'll see. I mean, >> oh, James, I think that it will depend on how the Iran war goes.
>> Well, I mean, that that could be part of it. trying to uh come up with something to to rearrange the story before the midterm midterms, you know, something to change the dynamic because >> that is it would be it would be ugly for them right now.
>> Aliens are just as [ __ ] up as we are.
>> No, they probably are. Well, the they've been releasing documents within the P.
We're finishing up the stream. So now I just couldn't help it. Um, we have been midnight ranting on why theist arguments are so bad. Truly so bad. But it also has been released lately. You know, aliens.
>> We like to go back and forth on me and >> we do.
>> Not saying I told you so, >> but >> no, James. I'm ready for it. I'm ready for it. My body is ready. I feel like they would have a better administration.
So, I'm ready for it to >> if they even care about us, what what they even want, >> what they're what they're trying to accomp even care about us. I don't know.
Maybe they want very little to do with us. That's one of the theories.
>> Well, and that's what you know. Are they good? Are they bad? Are they >> depends on who you talk to?
Well, that's the thing.
>> And that's the thing. There's so much misinformation and what's real, what's not, how far it goes down. It's just conjecture at this point.
>> Oh my goodness. Excuse me. Excuse me.
Sponsored by lots of soda. I >> I think if they were if if they were able to get here, they would have to have a much better, more evolved social structure than us. that they would have had to have moved past uh much of the the things that were we're still stuck with. They'd uh yeah, >> I'll see I I'll have slightly different I I would say you would hope so, but evolution's a [ __ ] And you know, I know that it would hopefully be more obvious than what they're doing now. I think Can I give you one other take?
It's if it's not aliens. Okay. What it could be >> could just be other government trying to crack our government and our and our we're just so outdated that they got methods that we go we don't know what the [ __ ] this is and another government. I mean >> I mean that's >> I mean >> considering how much more we spend than Russia and China for one of them to just leapfrog ahead of us to that degree.
>> Um and if that were the case I'm just kidding. I love you that technology they they would the war in Ukraine would be over. If China had that technology they they would own Taiwan.
and they wouldn't be pussyfooting around. Um, I I I don't think it's foreign technology.
>> Okay. Well, my qu I have a question for you then.
Why are the aliens taking so long?
>> Well, we don't even we we have no idea.
You're trying to examine their motivations and procedures and, you know, that's just a crapshoot. We have no idea what they're who they are, what they want, what they're doing.
Yeah.
>> And my pledge still stands if they exist. All I'm saying is that Marco Rubio cannot handle another position.
Like I'm pretty sure if like Trump fires someone and gives Marco the job, he'll have like five. I'm just teasing Marco.
Anyway, I'm >> I think they would have planned to come here.
>> Enough people within the alien infrastructure that can make a decent administration.
That's all I'm saying.
>> Yeah, >> if they're here, if it pans out, um they would they would have came here to see uh like >> one extra request. What extra request?
aliens if you exist. We used to make jokes about planes. We used to say, "Listen, it's totally not only safe, but listen, you're silly." Because like in a car has such a higher chance of you dying than a plane. I want you to know now that if you buy a plane, you shouldn't buy a lottery ticket.
>> You're okay. or if you get on a plane, you'll be okay. I'm just teasing. It's not that bad.
>> Anyway, our flight safety spirit airlines bankrupt.
>> Exactly.
>> Don't buy spirit.
>> Don't buy spirit. Not a lot of >> uh do you believe in spirits, James? I don't even believe in one spirit. Oh, that's >> if the term spirit that's all tied up in in religion. So I I I don't subscribe to it. Now if you wanted to say could there theoretically be life forms that exist as energy?
Maybe possibly. I don't know. I don't see why it couldn't be. I just haven't don't have any solid evidence for it.
But >> I I wouldn't interpret them as spirits in the religious framework of like angels, demons, things like that.
>> I want to see life that we haven't.
>> Yeah.
>> Like what?
>> Life in the form of gas. Like it's a gaseous life. Not like smelly, but like an actual gas. I mean, some some people postulated you could have life in even in gas giants like Jupiter in the in the clouds and >> yeah hard I I I don't know how you'd keep systems together >> but >> but maybe there's something you never know big universes big universe though maybe it is big universes I had a guy James can I tell you who'd make you who make you smile okay is he told me that alien life was impossible and that the people were that were um visiting us were from other dimensions. And I said, "Mother, you're really going to deny alien life until the inner dimensions are real?" He was a religious person. It was very weird because I feel like at least I'm gonna grant you alien life could exist.
>> But everyone's got to have a thing, James. It's got to have a thing. Okay.
>> Well, >> I don't know. You probably haven't heard, but um there there have been pastors that have this has been numerous pastors that have come forward saying that they have been included in meetings where representatives of the government are telling them they need to prepare to be answering questions for their their congregations as this unfolds. That there's going they're going to be hit with some questions. They need to prepare themselves because >> the world that name >> it might not be Kansas any I don't know.
So I guess continuity is you have to find if whatever comes out they have to find a way to integrate it and explain it in the religion so the religion doesn't fall apart. Can I tell you and I realize what their best selling point like the the word uh two words as James remember what the polit the political like correct >> or the political >> so it's a great combo it's end times all right if you just say end times when's end times now or near >> always never exactly because you don't have to pick an actual date, but it's like, you know, a long enough window that you can make it sound vaguely alarming enough.
>> Yeah. I mean, the Vatican, they've been they've actually been coming out and saying that it wouldn't be any any threat to their version of Christianity.
It would be uh you know, it wouldn't it wouldn't prove Catholicism was untrue if there was alien life.
All I know is that if the aliens had communism that we would probably then try to nuke them and see if they had any oil and then we would try to bring them freedom if any of those were true.
I mean, >> honestly, when you get to that level, um, I I don't know if there if it would be exactly like human communism or like communism was envisioned on Earth, but I do actually think it would probably be something pretty similar to it.
>> I don't think Star Trek, right?
>> I Yeah, I don't think you would get to the other side of the galaxy.
um you know based on capitalism. I don't think you you do things that big. Um >> well and yeah that that is my and I'm I'm stealing from Neil Degrasse Tyson and maybe you're stealing from phys other physicists too and that's just well not stealing you know what I mean borrowing is that big projects come from the government. You're never going to get these big companies that say, "All right, so we have this trip and it wastes a lot of money and there's only going to be a little bit of information that we gain back and there's a risk of a lot of people dying and it's just risk risk risk risk risk risk."
>> Well, like look at the situation we find ourselves in now. Um they they tried to convince everybody that climate change was going to be as soon as the boomers figured out, okay, this is real, but this will happen after we're dead. [ __ ] you. [ __ ] you. We are not going to pay one more penny to avert anything that can happen after we die. We're going to be dead.
>> Everything's okay. You guys can go [ __ ] yourselves. We want our cat. We want our money. And you know the the if humanity is going to survive long term, we're going to have to move >> to another planet at some point.
>> But it's getting crazier, right? Have you noticed it's getting crazier? Like the weather is just getting from day to day. It just seems more random. Like you go, "Oh, well, I guess it was 80 one day and it's 40 today." And I guess that has happened. And then I don't know all these weird effects. Storms are lasting longer. Like eventually you're going to say they're not going to be able to do the snowball trick. Like oh it's winter and a snowball. It's >> like national debt like the decline of our education system. And it's like well you know by the time the kids in school graduate and go to the we'll be dead. We don't care if they can do basic read, reading, writing, and math. [ __ ] you. We don't give a [ __ ] We'll be dead. Go [ __ ] yourselves. And we, humanity will never survive that because if we're going to move to another planet, >> uh the work to do that would have to begin thousands of years ahead of time by people who would never live to see it. They would be doing something for generations that would be, you know, thousands of years in the future. And so far we have >> we would never get >> Yeah. or at least so far we have not been able to get decades worth of altruism. So >> but with that James we have been midnight ranting on why are theistic arguments so bad. I'm about to hand it right back over to you. It has felt good to be back all >> Yes indeed. We're going to keep on doing more streams. I feel bad. Something I did have to do progress reports on this week, which kind of slowed me down, but we're going to keep on doing more.
>> Nobody gonna slow her down. She's got >> Well, in a month and a half, I'm about to be schools out for summer. All right.
But I am I'm handing it right back over to you and then we're gonna close shop.
It has been lovely tonight with all of you. Yes, indeed. We have been midnight ranting on why are theistic arguments so bad, James?
>> Anybody out there who happens to be a mom. Happy Mother's Day. Um, if you're in the US, you saw my mom today. Uh, so yeah, any any women out there who are mothers, happy Mother's Day. Um, yeah.
Uh theist arguments suck because uh they're all they have and their standard of scrutiny of those arguments is low because they are desperate to believe them and they're all they have. Uh because they they live in an echo chamber where everyone else that they know constantly reaffirms that these arguments are good. They are convincing.
They do make sense. They prove the premise that there is really good reasons to believe in this. And uh you know that's why they one of the reasons why they they congregate. They go to church. They go to a synagogue. Uh so that they can see that other people actually believe this stuff too. Like it's not just me, right? You guys all you guys all believe in this stuff.
Makes sense to you. Yeah. You're convinced by it. Okay. Well, then then it must be true. Then I can keep believing it. But um and the the factor of uh threats and coercion comes into play. Um that's the antithesis of free will. They tell us God cares about free will. Uh there's no free will in heaven and we have this brief period of free will. Uh but if we don't make the choice that he wants us to make, he'll torture us forever. That's not free will. That's uh that's the logic of the guy who holds a gun to your head and tells him to give you give me your wallet and you call the police, please come out and say he says, "Well, no, he voluntarily gave me the wallet. He could have chosen to be shot and nobody would recognize that as voluntary or done a free will. You know, once you have threats and coercion, uh you're outside of free will. It's not an issue. God doesn't care about free will.
Um, even though they use that, they use that to uh to try to justify lots of things that would be very very hard for them to justify otherwise, but it's all they have and nobody really pushes back. It makes sense to them. Their social circle um agrees with it, affirms it, and uh most of them are never really willing to face real challenge. They they don't come to places like this. Um they don't want to know what the other side says. Um because a lot of them deep down in places they don't like to admit are there. They have doubts. They don't know. They hope it's true. They may hope it's true, but they don't actually they know they don't actually have any firm reason to believe that. So anyway, it was great to be with you on this Saturday night.
Thank you, Amy.
Thank you, James. And all right, I want to thank you all for coming to this episode of Midnight Ranting. Why are theistic arguments so bad? where tonight we asked ourselves why theistic arguments are so bad even after having thousands of years of time to make them better for a time that was so good we had to invent falsify ability to enjoy it. I do want to thank my co-host James W along with all the awesome people in chat, our awesome mods who make the stream so great and viewers like you who make this channel even possible. If you enjoy the show, please don't forget to like, follow or subscribe. Subscribe if I can even talk because then you gain access to that bell icon which when hit to all will send you access to our premieres and to see our live streams.
Or hey, why not leave a comment once the video is done or head to the Skeptic and Ranting Discord server in the description below or our Patreon at patreon.com/amy Newman along with all of our amazing channel members. I am Amy Newman and along with James W. We will see you on the next episode of Skeptic Ball Z. Good night everyone.
Good night.
>> I could also hit the wrong buttons twice. Good night.
Heat. Heat.
Heat.
Heat.
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