Nashon Pessa on UDA Fallout, Western Kenya Politics & 2027 Kakamega Senate Bid

追加: 2026-05-24

[00:00:00]Order. [music] Order.

[00:00:07][music] Hello viewers, welcome to the political ringside where you get analysis from the front row. I am your host Freda Mongare.

[00:00:25]Uh in this particular episode we have a very very amazing guest a youth leader a former UDA executive director and now a top leader in a new part that he'll be telling us more about. He's also gunning for the Kakamega senator position. Karib Busana Odanga Pesa >> getting hold of you has been a problem but now we grateful that you've created time for us.

[00:00:48]>> No it shouldn't be a problem. [laughter] It's just a bit of arrangement. It's a pleasure to be part of you today.

[00:00:54]>> Mhm. Karibana. So quickly maybe even before I delve into the conversation, you were once one of the most visible administrators inside UDA, but again uh in between here we've lost you. Why did you uh walk away from such a powerful position?

[00:01:11]>> I'm still a visible force.

[00:01:13]>> You still are a [laughter] visible force.

[00:01:15]>> So but I understand uh I was in UDA and when I got into UDA it was an appointment.

[00:01:23]>> Yeah.

[00:01:24]And uh I'm still forever grateful to his excellency President William Samuto for that opportunity >> he gave me to participate in building the UDA party and most people do not know that I had walked a journey with William R. I didn't just emanate from >> from anywhere.

[00:01:43]>> I was a constituent manager in Matungu constituency and when we lost our MP I declared my beat to V as an MP and then we had the politics of Tangatanga and Kle >> that's how on premised on that we were able to put we were put together with by then the deputy president >> told to support a candidate.

[00:02:06]>> Yeah. So it is from that that now our friendship grew to an extent. Uh when we went for the interview for the executive director for the UTA I was given that opportunity >> and it was a three-year term uh contract employment which uh ran from August 2021.

[00:02:26]It was to end in 2023 May you calculate with some few months there. So I did my best to build the party from the scratch. Not alone of course politics is an effort of many people coming together.

[00:02:42]>> Yeah.

[00:02:43]>> And uh from there we won election.

[00:02:45]>> Yes.

[00:02:45]>> And uh I was happy I participated in the course.

[00:02:49]>> Mhm.

[00:02:50]>> And being a young person there's a way where I'm headed to. You know initially traditionally in Kenya people think if you are executive directors of the party you participate in the election. Once they are won, you are now nominated or you made a cabinet secretary. It doesn't have to be that way.

[00:03:08]>> People have [clears throat] different values. People have different perception how they want to do their politics. I had my own show. I delivered. We did not lose the election. We won.

[00:03:17]>> My term ended and >> I had to move to other things. It doesn't have to be UDA because even UDA is a democratic party which says you can join to be a member. you can exit or when you wish to to leave and therefore there was no malice or anything that I will now pin down and say this what made me exit the party.

[00:03:39]>> Yes, I was actually going to ask you that because is it voluntary force or just internal disagreement within the party that had you leaving out? Uh I can also tell you number one there were quite some challenges because when you are an executive director with youthful age >> and sometimes some of your decision just like if you went into corporate societies now there are people who have not come to terms with AI because >> when technology is changing there are people who are traditional in their mindset >> and therefore there are challenges I encourage uh in the running of the UDA of course based on ideology based on which way forward but those are normal in any >> organization >> and I think I got to a point where I said I can still do something better than UDA not because UDA has done me any problem >> but I couldn't I can't say that there are no issues we had our own differences >> but uh the way somebody said when we differ we shouldn't now open our nakedness to the public and say same way we were able to tackle them. We leave it at that point.

[00:04:51]>> Leave it at that >> because we still have a bigger goal and who knows one day I want to be the president of this country. Maybe it is not assured through UDA. So I have to create my own >> perception and platform with a clear timeline >> cuz maybe if I got into UDA it may not be sustainable.

[00:05:08]>> Okay.

[00:05:08]>> Yeah. Because each day you put your interest first in politics.

[00:05:12]>> Quite an elaborate explanation. And uh then this begs the question at what point did you realize that your future in politics is not only I mean just limited within the UDA party you had to think outside the box and think around uh the next step and where to carve your path through.

[00:05:28]Part of the challenge was when we won government number one. That's when I realized that uh politics is more grassroot because by the time we formed the government that's now when the appointments started being based on how many votes you brought >> did you bring?

[00:05:45]>> Mhm.

[00:05:45]>> By that time they forget whether you are executive director, you an SG. The question is how many votes? And I remember even putting my own cards on table and say look in my own constituency I had 12,000 votes.

[00:05:57]>> You had to present that >> to present >> in the whole of the entire Kakamega county we had close to about 241,000 votes >> and even in my own constituency I had an MCA who was elected under the UDA party.

[00:06:12]>> Okay.

[00:06:12]>> But we now got into wrangles from our western region. I remember we had a lot of meetings on whose name should be for CS, whose name should be fronted for PS >> and that bit got me a bit off and then I just realized the challenge young people face in terms of uh securing uh the goodies after the election >> because most of the as young people we have been reduced to to be on top of lries. Yes, >> we've been reduced to when power is taken now we are given nominated MC.

[00:06:49]Nobody trust us with those key positions.

[00:06:53]>> The way the wrangles formed around the UDA team from Western I realized it was not turning out to be a healthy relationship for my own existence and for where I wanted >> where you wanted to go to. Well, that indeed is a challenge and of course you putting it out clear even to our viewers. This is a very very challenge that young people go through in political parties because then you put in a good work put in a good uh a fire strategist and organization within your position as the executive director but then it happens that now when the uh the cake is now being cut it becomes a problem. the card of youthfulness is >> because I can tell you when we got to the appointments I remember I had by the grace of God I was able to traverse the almost 290 constituencies >> looking for the vote >> but you know there are somebody somewhere who never did anything >> at all >> at all but you know you wake up tomorrow and they have been given >> and they show up when the cake is being cut they have to show up >> strategic >> so if you are a person who is of a light mind you get offended >> yes >> but Uh I've always told young leaders if you are a strategic person you think your way out this is not working how do I still >> what next >> project myself because each one of us will still have an opportunity to >> seek this leadership in other front >> well uh many people uh knew you as a strategist and an organizer Danga but now this time that you are uh throwing yourself into frontline political position why now why make the jump into elective position Uh number one I would say I'm a a political scientist by training of the University of Nairobi and uh >> that puts me on the angle of being a strategist, being a planner, being an administrator.

[00:08:37]>> Yeah.

[00:08:37]>> But I think uh to make the viewers understand, I've always been at the political front line.

[00:08:43]>> Okay.

[00:08:44]>> In immediately I finished my campus in 2016, I [clears throat] became a campaign manager.

[00:08:50]>> Okay.

[00:08:51]>> For the current MP for Matungu. And then I was interacting with the voters on a daily basis >> trying to balance and a bit of the politics in Nairobi.

[00:09:04]>> Yeah.

[00:09:05]>> Uh in 2018 2019 I was a constituent manager which puts me in the political limelight. Yeah.

[00:09:13]>> And even when we lost our MP the late honorable Morunga in 2021 2020 2021 >> I had offered myself if you go and check the IBC statistics get my name there as an aspirant. So it is a bit of being a strategist does not also limit you because part of where we the challenge we are facing with our governments is >> when you only have people who are strategist who don't come out to interact with citizens >> by the time they now come out and they given key positions. They don't come up with policies that affect common people because they used to boardrooms. You know if you take a strategist who has been in boardroom >> and you now make him a cabinet secretary you would get like this cabinet secretary we have for is it energy what is his name >> and I who is asked on a national television what type of oil is in he does not know and that's the person who has been vested with >> such as can even allow water to be imported in instead of uh [snorts] petrol so >> I think the urge of coming out is is It's not enough to be a strategist. I have a leadership uh >> you know mandate that one time I want to see myself coming out changing how we do our things, how we come up with policies.

[00:10:31]>> You will never achieve it if you remain a strategist >> because in Africa we also have governments whereby the people who are implementing policies are quarks.

[00:10:40]>> Yes, >> the strategist offices will never see the change. So if you have the strategy, you understand the techno voters, they vote you in and >> they see how you implement. So that's why >> I am coming out to V and because I have a vision, I have a mandate. There's a way I want to see Kame which I may not see it if I only remain a strategist.

[00:11:11]Yes.

[00:11:11]>> Yeah. So you are a spice of both the background behind curtains and of course with interaction at the grassroot level.

[00:11:17]So why kakamega in this time? Why no other position within the country? Just kakamega.

[00:11:22]>> Number one, politics is local.

[00:11:24]>> Politics is local.

[00:11:26]>> Politics is local. And I have been I am who I am today because of my people in Kakamega.

[00:11:32]>> Yeah.

[00:11:33]>> They have seen me grow through Matumo constituency >> and uh wisdom dictates. Uh since politics is local, you offer yourself to where people know you. [clears throat] >> Yeah. You start >> you go to V in was in Bishu County, you know, >> they'll be wondering whether my head is [laughter] >> okay.

[00:11:53]>> Is okay.

[00:11:54]>> And also you see like I like there's a reason why you situated your political enlightenment here.

[00:12:03]>> Mhm.

[00:12:04]>> You know, you have your own reasons. the same way I have my own reasons because the people of Kakamea know me >> I've grown there understand the needs understand what they are going through >> and I think [clears throat] uh looking at it from where I sit >> let me first start local me >> let them >> you know help me grow and I come I will surely get to the national >> just as they say charity begins at home so you want first to impact the people back from where you come from then of course thereafter they will graduate you to the next Well, what you're mentioning that of course uh you're picking your people because you understand them better.

[00:12:40]You've been born and bred there. So, what is this particular issues that are unique uh for Kakamega County?

[00:12:47]>> I would say for Kakamega County number one, we have had a very good senator >> who has now declared his interest to v for governorship that is uh >> honorable Halwali.

[00:12:59]The only issue that has missed is most of the issues he tackles are a bit national in nature.

[00:13:07]>> You know, he has been very vocal in corruption. He has been very vocal in uh you know, ensuring there's that equalization fund and all that doing his role as a senator. Yes. But now the bit of is we need now a senator who puts the governor on toes [clears throat] to deliver because one of the key challenges in number one the economy index >> okay >> is a bit down >> and uh we have uh governors who come and they launch some projects you wonder whether they did a visibility study to understand are they the real need of the people. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Uh a good example is most of Kakamega is a farming county.

[00:13:48]>> Mhm.

[00:13:49]>> Yet when you go I see governor too keen and busy drilling >> bas water is good water >> but is it the main >> uh agenda. So I think we need a senator number one apart from just playing the legislative role >> and the in senate >> one who will also number one you know we also have a system whereby senators and governors have built that anity like >> if you are a senator you're my enemy if you are a governor but we also need to change mindset whereby I think the senator and governor can have a discussion and ask themselves what is the real need of kakamea county all these uh laws and projects being passed in the county assembly >> do they really resonate with what the [clears throat] citizens want >> so that we can go the way the Kiamu way is going but there's seemingly to be some good relationship between the senator and you can see the work that is doing so there are tailor made problems in Kakamega of ensuring the company like sugar is back we now have mineral that are being discovered are we pushing for the change in the mineral control act so that we can have a 40 40 20 instead of 70 30 and 10.

[00:15:07]>> So if we have a a senator who not only see the governor as an enemy >> but we are all leaders what are we doing to change our county >> it will be the best way and I think uh I told you we have we have a good senator who is very well outspoken.

[00:15:25]>> Yes. But I think his focus has made him become a bit more national. The issues he has tackled most of them are national. It's only a few times you see him hitting the governor in Fin roles here and there. But >> they needed to also have a cordial relationship because at the end of the day despite our different positions, >> we are all leaders. People hold us accountable to see how we work in harmony to change their situation or is it just selfish ambitions whereby it is my So I keep insulting the governor that I become the governor next time. Yes.

[00:16:00]>> So most of the senators then maybe are just eyeing the next position rather than what exactly uh is is asked of them in the position.

[00:16:08]>> If the governor does something that is wrong don't wait after 5 years but now to now make it a manifesto.

[00:16:15]>> Yes.

[00:16:16]>> Yeah. We should see highlighting that time so that >> it is resolved.

[00:16:21]>> Mhm. Because imagine if it was a health issue and you wait after 5 years, you will have no so many people. Exactly. So we need to also have leaders who are selfless and put the interest of the voters hand.

[00:16:34]>> Mhm.

[00:16:35]>> Well, do you believe that uh Kakamega voters are ready to replace the traditional political leaders with the new uh blood into the system and of course uh technocratic leaders. The challenge we have, I'll tell you number one first from a political scientist mentality that the African voter is the most corrupt voter.

[00:16:55]>> Okay.

[00:16:55]>> In the in the world.

[00:16:57]>> Mhm.

[00:16:58]>> Because the African voter wants to be bribed first.

[00:17:02]>> Yeah.

[00:17:03]>> Before they vote.

[00:17:05]>> Mhm.

[00:17:05]>> Even vying for senator is not a walk in the sea. Has a lot of financial mass or obligations. Mhm.

[00:17:16]>> The bit of are they ready or not.

[00:17:19]>> I think the only bit I can give to my voters in Kakamega is number one is they listen.

[00:17:25]>> Mhm. They listen.

[00:17:26]>> They listen.

[00:17:27]>> Yeah.

[00:17:27]>> So they know how to gauge.

[00:17:29]>> Mhm.

[00:17:29]>> They will see come and also be asking them. So because you know they know us.

[00:17:34]>> Yeah.

[00:17:34]>> So they ask where has Fida got this money splashing on us.

[00:17:39]>> Okay.

[00:17:40]>> Then what is the relationship Freda has with us? we vote him in will he be around as we walk together in this >> journey >> or so I've seen a bit of shift we're not yet there >> but is something progressive and that's why we have to do a lot of civic education >> to make people that don't look at the 200 shillings a politician is giving you ask yourself >> will the politician still be there to >> do at least a percentage of what they are saying >> so we don't get into the scenario I had a friend saying we had bottom up in the campaign. Now when we got into government we did up >> bottom it's the opposite problem. So it has to be a a correlational journey between the voter and so we still have a challenge whether we have voters if you don't have [clears throat] money >> they'll not even listen to you will adise you until you run away and go and look for a job and >> hide somewhere >> build some consolidate funds and come back.

[00:18:39]>> Sure. The the problem is because we live whereby they are because of corruption.

[00:18:45]>> Do you know everybody most of the voters believe when you show up and you have money you have stolen from government.

[00:18:51]>> That can only be the source. Nowhere else >> that can only be the source. So in their mind they believe it's also our eating time >> through this aspirant. Let's also eat part of the loot.

[00:19:01]>> Wow.

[00:19:02]>> From the government. So if you show up and you don't have the loot, who will listen to you?

[00:19:06]>> Who will listen [laughter] to you? Yeah.

[00:19:07]Most politicians will tell you that you should fear voters even more than anything. The voters themselves. They'll eat your money, leave you there, and if you do not have it, they'll ask you to go look for it and come back.

[00:19:19]>> You also have perception. People say, "Let us eat your money at least first round, second round on the fourth round."

[00:19:26]>> Really, they will reward you when they decide now when they are full.

[00:19:30]>> When they are full now, you can come back. Yes.

[00:19:32]>> Okay.

[00:19:34]When politicians come in, they also now say after all I've bought these people.

[00:19:38]>> Yeah.

[00:19:41]>> As I told you, the African voter is corrupt. You bribe him >> to vote you in. That's why now when you get to the office, can imagine if you go and fight for senator for instance in >> you are spending 100 to 200 to 300 million.

[00:19:54]>> Yes.

[00:19:54]>> You cannot get that money even in Senate after 5 years. 5 years it's not enough to what does it mean >> corruption to be corrupt for people to sell what they have there to recover because at the end of the day you spend >> that is actually it >> and only a mad man spends without a return >> in mind >> and of course politicians are calculative they also know >> so if I'm spending and that's the mentality we have over time yeah we have to change >> that's the mentality because I had a discussion with a governor who was heavily funded by Indians Okay.

[00:20:29]>> So by the time he got into the office, the Indians are collecting everything.

[00:20:32]>> Oh, >> they're getting back what they gave you.

[00:20:35]>> So >> I believe we change the >> Well, many critics may say that you are predominantly active in the Nairobi political circles. [clears throat] So how would you respond to that?

[00:20:45]>> I think the those critics needs to go back and study again.

[00:20:50]>> Mhm.

[00:20:50]>> If they're using Wikipedia, they need to use >> they're wrong. [laughter] Move with the Times and use the eye.

[00:20:55]I've been known in Nairobi mostly by the time I got into executive director.

[00:21:01]>> Yes.

[00:21:01]>> And I think even by the time I was executive director for UDA, I didn't campaign a lot in Nairobi.

[00:21:07]>> Campaign heavily in Valley.

[00:21:08]>> Y >> because we are looking at voter apathy because there's a tendency when a presidential candidate comes from a particular region >> some people celebrate like he has won.

[00:21:18]>> Yes.

[00:21:18]>> So we need to work on the numbers to come out. So I was heavily in drift valley. I was heavily in Wester.

[00:21:23]>> Yeah. I've done a campaign trail from Kakamega all the way to Busia.

[00:21:29]>> So I think I'll say my roots are in Western.

[00:21:33]>> I started becoming established in Nairobi when I was executive director for UDA >> and uh I have to go back still to western say I'm here now. This is my party.

[00:21:47]>> This is what we stand for. Yes.

[00:21:48]>> And uh >> gave me this opportunity.

[00:21:51]>> Mhm. So it is a challenge. Yes. Because one of the challenge also is people forget a lot.

[00:21:57]>> Yeah, they do.

[00:21:58]>> I'm sure even you when you're in the village some of the people you studied with >> people there are some who forget you.

[00:22:04]>> Yes.

[00:22:05]>> Now you are known in Nairobi here.

[00:22:07]>> The man here knows you more than even your neighbor.

[00:22:11]>> Yeah. Within the context and time you at a particular place >> you are. So it is a work ahead to work on.

[00:22:16]>> Mhm.

[00:22:17]During your time in UD as the executive director, what was your biggest disagreement with the party of course and the direction it took eventually that we are here?

[00:22:29]>> I think when I was executive director in UD number one uh I wasn't sidelined.

[00:22:35]>> You were not sidelined >> because uh I was part and parcel of key uh decision making bodies.

[00:22:43]>> Mhm. And even at my young age, if you check the newspapers and all the information, I had the pleasure to be on the presidential campaign.

[00:22:52]>> Yes.

[00:22:53]>> Which is not uh anything to take light because with I have understanding how to craft a presidential campaign system and all that.

[00:23:02]>> Mhm. The only bit I would say we maybe we deferred. I noticed by the time we got into government, [snorts] we had a very good uh manifesto.

[00:23:16]>> Yes, we did.

[00:23:17]>> Which was a policy framework known as the plan.

[00:23:20]>> Yes, the plan.

[00:23:20]>> And the plan had outlined uh A to Z >> where we want to take Kenya >> start from and where we are headed >> from uh bottom to up. Singapore was part of the plan. It's a new plan. Singapore is part [laughter] of the plan.

[00:23:34]>> By then we do not have the name Singapore but we had an agenda to grow the economy >> to get to the Singapore.

[00:23:42]>> The only challenge I realized is before we took over power most of the people who were around the deputy president by then >> had a big problem with the former president.

[00:23:57]>> Mhm. So by the time we now got power the mentality came in now it's our time to eat >> to eat. [laughter] Okay. Yeah. So most of the people who got the positions to serve deviated from the manifesto >> and now got to a time it is our time to >> loot our time to >> so the course changed in between after the win the course changed from we we are going to transform the country now we it's their time to >> I can even tell you some of them must have given the president a very hard time okay >> because you know sometimes it's that hard to work with a friend. Mhm.

[00:24:36]>> Just like it's hard to work with a spouse.

[00:24:38]>> Mhm. Yeah.

[00:24:41]>> You know, imagine a friend you've looked for something with >> been through trenches. You now get power.

[00:24:48]>> Yeah.

[00:24:49]>> And he deviates.

[00:24:50]>> Yeah.

[00:24:50]>> And so you started hearing stories, I don't know who is buying shoes or how much amount. I don't know who's doing what.

[00:24:57]>> Yeah.

[00:24:58]>> And I think it's a tendency. You remember when we won when we got the new constitution.

[00:25:03]>> Mhm.

[00:25:04]Do you know there are some governors who immediately they were elected in they moved to hotels to stay >> woo >> by the time we did the program the new constitution >> okay >> to get in place and had counties >> and some governors who now failed we are small gods >> okay >> they went into so the challenge we I differ with is people create good manifestos >> but when you transit into power it becomes a pepper >> just >> a pepper >> and that's Why you hear like there was a a time we had creation of industrial parks.

[00:25:38]>> Mhm.

[00:25:38]>> Which costed this country a lot of money.

[00:25:41]>> Sure.

[00:25:41]>> And there has been nothing going on in those industrial >> parks.

[00:25:46]>> Even the programs we had in the plan we were implemented gradually.

[00:25:52]>> Mhm.

[00:25:53]>> But because of the mentality we want to gather, we want to eat. You know, all of these things were rolled out in one year. We had changing education system.

[00:26:01]We have change in health. We have change in housing. Yet they are supposed to be gradual. In year one, you have to handle health. In year two, you have to handle affordable housing. In year three, you see if you bring a change, it has to be gradual.

[00:26:15]>> But now we caused a lot of confusion.

[00:26:17]You have somebody number one when he goes home the child is now doing CBC. He doesn't understand what CBC is doing. He gets to work housing affordable. He has been charged. He's still trying to understand what is this affordable housing. They take out NHF. they have given him sh. with that >> there was a lot of confusion because of course I'll agree with you that the plan was really elaborate and of course so you can be sure that so many people out there actually voted the current uh government for that particular plan there was a very good plan in that plan and uh there's a very huge disconnect because the current times and where the country is headed people feel like I mean there's a total shift from what we saw and what we are seeing so it actually comes up about from the particular confusion that actually began within the party And the government to surprise you one day I want you to drive on your way to Ku.

[00:27:06]>> Mhm.

[00:27:06]>> The governor for Ku is building an industrial park.

[00:27:10]>> Mhm.

[00:27:10]>> On the junction from when you are going to M.

[00:27:14]>> Why does Ku need an industrial park?

[00:27:16]>> Mhm.

[00:27:16]>> Between water and farming and industrial park. Which one should the governor >> prioritize?

[00:27:23]>> A good example. Let me even come home Kakamega. Yeah.

[00:27:27]>> Why did you have to first number one between getting sugar company back on board and doing study >> which one was a >> priority one?

[00:27:37]>> So the challenge we have and which me makes me differ a bit with our political parties.

[00:27:42]>> Yeah.

[00:27:43]>> Kenyans we are very good in writing documents >> documents >> but in terms of implementing we are zero. Yeah. And if we were to just get a bit serious and even do half of what we write, we'll be far >> as we've seen even some of us politicians you call us on these media stations by the time you are speaking >> somebody who is in Uganda or is in Bundi thinks >> if this person enters office this country will be a first class >> let me surprise even the person who is saying that in the media does not understand what he's saying >> maybe has just been co so we are slow in terms of being honest truthful and implemented Yeah.

[00:28:21]>> Yes. If we implemented the plan, we would be in Singapore.

[00:28:26]>> Singapore right now. [laughter] >> Yeah. Because it becomes easy to critic from outside until lately you've seen the videos that have been circulating especially on the recent case of fuel prices where CS opai was initially when he was not an expert yet. He was actually criticizing the people that were in that particular position and until he got there and now is he's in the same same exact position that the people were in and explain what is really going on and where the country is headed.

[00:28:52]>> Yeah.

[00:28:52]>> It's not easy to govern >> and that's why it's easy to criticize but unless you get into the ring >> then you are now filled with those difficult >> decisions. So it's a whole mindset that we need to change as a nation >> so that we don't also lament each day.

[00:29:09]We sit down and ask what works for us.

[00:29:12]>> Yeah.

[00:29:12]>> Odanga, there is a growing perception that parties in Kenya only reward a few insiders and as you have mentioned and of course you are clearly highlighted to our viewers that you are not forced out of the party and you are not coerced into going out of the party. It was your own personal decision. But again we all understand that predominantly Kenyan political parties have been known that once they get into the power the party that takes the power they usually reward insiders and then the other people are left outside. So did you personally experience that?

[00:29:41]>> You're not experienced that's the norm.

[00:29:43]>> That's the norm >> because uh parties in this side of the world are investment.

[00:29:48]>> Mhm.

[00:29:49]>> So the highest bidder they start with the highest bidder before they go to the person shouting on the top of the glory.

[00:29:56]Mhm.

[00:29:57]>> So I will say it is not even a notion that's what happens. These are investment >> and those who give in their effort are rewarded. Initially it used to be a good system in 202 or seven >> whereby even nomination you had to earn it.

[00:30:15]>> Y >> uh there are people who are nominated those times because they have worked for the party.

[00:30:21]>> I have no problem the party rewarding insiders. My only challenge is if people have not worked for the party, money or they come with other things given it kills the energy of the young people especially >> especially the young people >> to participate because I can tell you >> do you know in this system we had in 222 most of young people are nominated as MCS.

[00:30:47]>> Yeah. Let me [clears throat] tell you, if you nominated as an MCA, it's a very dangerous situation unless you have muscles to want to work in that place.

[00:30:57]>> Okay.

[00:30:57]>> Cuz if I nominate you today as an MC and I'm paying you 84,000.

[00:31:01]>> Mhm.

[00:31:01]>> After 5 years, do you know you can go back to square zero?

[00:31:05]>> Yes. Like nothing happened in between >> because those voters will not differentiate whether you are nominated >> or not.

[00:31:12]>> You are elected.

[00:31:14]So by the time you spend that 80,000 if you don't have other mechanism you can easily run back to depression.

[00:31:21]>> So it's also a high time that it's not a problem to reward but let it be given to those who are >> they've earned it. Yeah.

[00:31:30]>> Yeah. So that will be my point. But to say that the insiders will not be rewarded it's a lie.

[00:31:35]>> It's a lie. They just have to that is the the order of the day within the party.

[00:31:39]>> It's like company in a corporate setup.

[00:31:41]They promote people who work.

[00:31:42]>> That's the order. So can we make the promotion to be merit based?

[00:31:46]>> Merit based. Looking back to the UDA party generally while you're working with them, what is this one mistake that you'd say they did in the western region?

[00:31:59]>> Yeah, there's this one that you can point >> after winning.

[00:32:04]>> I think uh number one after the one in Western >> Mhm. The mistake was uh they allowed uh the prime cabinet secretary >> and the speaker >> to be the one informing who gets appointed where and how.

[00:32:24]>> Okay.

[00:32:24]>> Not knowing that they are foot soldiers for UDA western.

[00:32:29]>> Yes.

[00:32:30]>> Including you here.

[00:32:31]>> Yes.

[00:32:32]>> Who this Malia and founders >> within the party >> UDA. M >> so when we win government I have to be honest I have to maintain my channel with his excellency the president because he was my boss >> you don't expect me now to change guard >> and now start looking for answerable >> for these other two brothers because the challenge is even if I look for these other two brothers you still see me >> as an enemy because I was not with them >> they decamped and came to where you are >> so the mistake happened is I think the president or whoever gave him that advice has faulted a bit there.

[00:33:09]>> Mhm.

[00:33:09]>> And it is natural when Malia now came in they had to also now bring in their foot soldiers because they want to cement their support their relationship around the president because it's a game of numbers a game of people. M >> so at the end the foot soldiers who are directly allied to the world >> you know the you can imagine the intimidation and beating went through >> you cannot explain that he's not a PS he's not a CS the likes of a chess the likes of all those kind of people >> so when you had those new that difference >> it's like I would say in a polygamy set up.

[00:33:55]>> Mhm.

[00:33:55]>> Imagine you have a wife you've labored with to create a fortune.

[00:33:58]>> Yes.

[00:33:59]>> Then she wakes up after 4 years. You [clears throat] now marry another >> woman. And when she feels betrayed, >> that's for sure.

[00:34:06]>> The trust is broken.

[00:34:09]>> So we got into that. Most of the foot soldiers who were with >> William by the time these other two brothers were on the other side and we defended him during the Tang, >> we felt a bit like betrayed.

[00:34:25]>> Yes. So that betrayal >> Mhm.

[00:34:27]>> has now made it difficult. Now you see even western is shaky.

[00:34:31]>> It is >> in terms of uh our two brothers are not able to deliver.

[00:34:36]>> Mhm.

[00:34:36]>> The president has to make more than 30 40 trips to western.

[00:34:40]>> Yeah.

[00:34:41]>> You know it's not supposed to be so because the other speaker coming from the region they should be able to consolidate the region for you. But if you still having to run, it tells you from his he >> and now the foot soldiers who were with the president by then also feel not work hard because last time I did a new person came in and he was given took over what we had worked for.

[00:35:04]>> It's a wait and see.

[00:35:06]>> So that trust was a bit uh lost.

[00:35:09]>> So Odanga uh do you think then that uh the government underestimated how quickly support could shift in the western region?

[00:35:17]>> I think they did. They did.

[00:35:18]>> I think they did. You know the perception also has been uh see like those meetings at used to do >> what people did not know by then at used to work with the the provincial administration. So it was very easy to mobilize. So by the time the new under cabinet secretary, >> do we have a a speaker and a few CAS coming from that region?

[00:35:46]>> They will [clears throat] give us >> the people directly.

[00:35:49]>> Yeah.

[00:35:50]>> You know, we still have people who think that when there is a a CS from your region, >> you will vote for that government by virtue of that. But knowing that also the perception among Kenyans is that >> I can support anybody for president whether he comes from my region or not.

[00:36:07]The issue is what is he saying >> when he gets in is he going to put in the right policies that >> will make me >> live a better life.

[00:36:17]>> Yes.

[00:36:17]>> Cuz I can have my [clears throat] brother running vying for president and whatever he's trying to position cannot help this country >> at all. M >> so I think they underestimated underestimated the people of western region >> paying heavily.

[00:36:29]>> Mhm. There are so many people that were within the UDA party and of course they now they were right now you can call them former UDA party members but again right now they are openly criticizing the party. Do you think you're one of them? Do you think we should call you one of the insiders that are outside right now and they feel like the government is not working and you dear as a party? uh you know when you have an objective mind >> objectivity demands that uh you give the pros and >> the cons >> I wouldn't call myself a critic of the government.

[00:37:02]>> Okay.

[00:37:02]>> Uh I wouldn't want to say I come you know I came out of UD in a bit mindset.

[00:37:07]Mhm.

[00:37:08]>> There are things the government has done which I'm okay with that >> and you give it to them >> and I give it to them because >> the impact may not be now >> but after some time we feel >> a good example is though it is not properly anchored in the constitution and is not properly done >> but affordable housing is a good thing.

[00:37:27]>> Mhm.

[00:37:28]>> Because when you have affordable housing >> it is able to regulate the real estate industry.

[00:37:34]>> Okay. the rents that are always up. Go and check in regions where [clears throat] we have a lot of affordable housing >> and look at even I want to give you an example of Kahawasari when you [clears throat] are doing a lot of affordable housing for the military people. You move these military people from rented houses to go back to barracks.

[00:37:54]>> These landlords who are goodly rented have to bring it to the reality.

[00:37:59]>> Okay. So it's day >> but it will be felt later in the day.

[00:38:04]>> Even the and these other things they were good programs. I've told you the only challenge was some of them are being rolled out in a hurry >> to show you failed.

[00:38:14]>> Yeah. We are doing it the right way. But that then also those which will look at it and say this one has not been properly done >> like a good example they almost brought down the university education by changing many things overnight and all that.

[00:38:32]>> So it is a give and take where they do good. I think it's not a must that if you are one time or two time is to check the mistakes of each other.

[00:38:40]>> Not at all. Uh there are things the former deputy president has highlighted and they look at it and you say this is making sense.

[00:38:47]>> Yeah, this is good.

[00:38:48]>> There also some he has done and you wonder why would he even go on the microphone to say this?

[00:38:53]>> Same thing even the government is doing the same. So it's not having a stand. It is giving credit to where credit is due >> and then coming out as I expect the opposition to come each day and tell us you tell the government you've now done well this and this and suggest >> what needs to be done so that after one or two you can go and make up and say this is what you suggested and you didn't do well are you still politically close to uh his excellency President William RS completely diverged >> he's my president >> he's your president like mine Yeah, but the closeness now given that you worked in close contact with him.

[00:39:31]>> Not number one, I will tell you one thing about his excellence William is he doesn't forget people.

[00:39:39]>> Okay.

[00:39:40]>> Yeah. If you apart cross 10 years down the line, he will still call you even by name.

[00:39:45]>> Yeah.

[00:39:46]>> I believe even by the time there's a time I'd come out of UD and we happened to be in the same event in Gusia >> at a university. I reached out and we had a conversation. So number one is not mine and number two we cross >> there are things I've told you I see him doing and I'm like this is what was in our manifest you doing well there are things he does >> before I had joined go I was to the UDA I used to text him and tell him I think this is not [clears throat] properly being done as we had envisaged >> okay >> so we have a relationship like number one he's my president I cannot deny that >> number two we have a relationship whereby I was part of that vision Yes, you good faith. When I see things not being done right, I should be able to point them out, >> keeping quiet and you know like no let them fade. If our country fade, all of us will not have anything to celebrate.

[00:40:42]>> So I still have an open relationship. It may not be too political whereby tomorrow you see me wearing a UDA color >> but it is in good faith. Mhm. If you're still in UDA today, what is this thing that you'd advise the current government with regards to the western Kenya politics? [snorts] >> I think like I told you is to do politics of loyalty.

[00:41:04]>> Okay.

[00:41:04]>> Whatever stands with you, hold them till the >> to the very end.

[00:41:08]>> To the very end.

[00:41:10]>> Number two, I think the the UD government is to have an interaction with the people in western. Okay.

[00:41:16]>> Not a few leaders.

[00:41:17]>> Not a few leaders. Some of these MPs won by luck.

[00:41:22]>> Some of these MPs won by if you look at the numbers >> the margins are not too small.

[00:41:28]>> If you only limit yourself to the information, >> you may miss >> the people.

[00:41:35]>> I think what they need to do is to have inroads interact with the people.

[00:41:39]>> They able to move like in Kamega alone in 12 constituencies.

[00:41:44]>> If they move they will surely have an information >> of what is going on. If they move to the eight con this is they will have a mind of what is happening on the ground.

[00:41:51]>> So western is they do not just focus on particular faces as a representation of the whole >> having in tea with MPs in status they will only come and tell you a few stories by the time you get on ground some of those leaders are not even popular >> on ground. So they need to build a lenship of leaders and baraz where they have interaction with them.

[00:42:13]So [snorts] Odanga away from western Kenya politics and of course uh uh I mean national politics at large. Who is Odanga away from the party slogans? Who is Odanga Pesa?

[00:42:25]>> Wow. Thank you. Um >> I'll say number one I'm a family man.

[00:42:30]>> Okay.

[00:42:31]>> I believe in family. Number two young leader who believes that uh young people can make this country proud >> and they deserve to be given a chance.

[00:42:41]>> Mhm. uh apart from slogans and party formations, I'm also a social person.

[00:42:48]>> I interact with people in different colors because I say >> nobody will remain in leadership forever. Power is transient. Today you are a politician, tomorrow you're a farmer.

[00:42:58]>> So it's about networking and interacting with people.

[00:43:03]>> But I would say most important I believe in youthful leadership.

[00:43:07]>> Okay. whereby young people not only in politics even in corporate setup are given a chance to be not on the bouncing castle but on the decision making table of any country >> and uh I believe Kenyans we are hard working we just need the right policies that's what I always advocate for >> so that we can make this country better >> yes >> reports have linked you to the AON national party I mean uh what influenced your political direction into this particular party.

[00:43:39]>> Lessons I learned in UD.

[00:43:41]>> Okay. Lessons you learned. That can actually be a very good book. Lessons you learned in >> Actually, I'm working on a book.

[00:43:46]>> Oh, nice.

[00:43:47]>> The book is called uh From the Engine Room.

[00:43:50]>> Okay.

[00:43:51]>> Yes. Yes. The book is called From the Engine Room. An experience with the WSR presidential campaign in 2022 >> and uh which way for 2027.

[00:44:02]>> That must be a very nice book. through it I share experiences what I've gone through I've realized uh >> one thing and that's why I was telling Jenz is that >> power you'll never get it on the street >> at all >> you'll never get it on space >> you cannot get it even in this studio you have to go to the polling station >> for ground >> yes >> I can tell you by 2017 >> yes so I realized what as young people we lack most is the vehicle.

[00:44:34]>> Mhm.

[00:44:34]>> A party.

[00:44:36]>> A party.

[00:44:36]>> Yeah.

[00:44:37]>> Time again.

[00:44:37]>> You do not have a party.

[00:44:40]>> All you are doing >> is use.

[00:44:42]>> That's why when I we came even in our discussion we had before I told you there's some there's some team I'm not following.

[00:44:50]>> Mhm.

[00:44:51]>> Because there's no end game.

[00:44:53]>> Yes.

[00:44:54]>> Why I joined a Ghana is like I told you I have a 15ear plan.

[00:44:58]>> You visualized it in your head. Yeah.

[00:45:01]>> So I need a party.

[00:45:03]>> The party where I can make decisions >> not a party where I'm just >> true.

[00:45:10]>> Yes. So that's why I sat down that experience >> because let me tell you one of the challenges young people go through and it's not easy to be a full CEO.

[00:45:17]>> Mhm.

[00:45:18]>> Sometimes you can talk and somebody stands up and reminds you know I'm 72 years.

[00:45:22]>> Yes.

[00:45:23]>> In my ears if I removed your ears there's some change.

[00:45:26]>> Yeah. You know the person has already told you whatever you are saying does not is >> enough you know there's that perception of experience is the best teacher someone ask you at your age of 35 what experience >> do you have you have >> so you know by that time you had rendered totally useless >> so I chose a because number one is a clean party it doesn't have a lot of scandal things >> it had a party leader who by then I could resonate with though we are not in the same age bracket but our agenda almost resonated And my plan is we need a party that young people can join.

[00:46:02]>> Making noise is good.

[00:46:04]>> Sends a message. But unless I can tell you this for sure.

[00:46:08]>> The problem in Kenya is not even in status.

[00:46:11]>> Where's the problem?

[00:46:12]>> The problem in Kenya is in parliament.

[00:46:14][clears throat] >> Okay. Yeah.

[00:46:15]>> Because those are the people who pass laws. Those are the people who decide which money goes where and how.

[00:46:20]>> Mhm. And those are the people who when there's serious matters they are bought like mushrooms with 10,000 price they'll move very fast.

[00:46:30]>> If we got the right people in parliament he doesn't care who sits in status we'll have to dance to the tune of parliament.

[00:46:39]That's true >> and now we have put people there who just by a message alone from somebody in status geted right they will change. M >> that's why I believe through a you can have representatives both in the national even the governor if he has a strong county assembly >> the governor will not use the county funds >> but if you have people who come in and they forget that mandate >> I can tell even if the president is good and the parliament is not >> still the same same situation well even to our viewers and any young person who's watching time and again every guest that we've brought here they've actually highlighted that particular part that a party is a very important tool for anything that you'd wish for to to progress a country because even Odanga has highlighted his decision was influenced to join Aho party was because he has pictured 15 years to come. Where would he want to be? What would he want to be remembered for or what impact would he have made within the Kakamega County at large? Well, Odanga money has become central in Kenyan elections. Can a candidate without massive financial backing realistically win any elective position?

[00:47:47]>> I don't know. [laughter] Because uh for instance in western Kenya it will be a bit challenging.

[00:47:54]>> It will >> cuz like I told in the mindset of the people they have a perception that if you are coming to seek leadership from us >> you must be better than us.

[00:48:03]>> Yes.

[00:48:04]>> Must look up to you [snorts] >> and uh so if you don't have that perception they won't >> there's only a few areas I've seen people elected because we are giving one bob or two bob but there are not many.

[00:48:17]Yeah, >> we are yet to get there.

[00:48:20]>> Where we are today, we must have money.

[00:48:21]>> It's politics of money. That takes me back to you and I was a student at the University of Nairobi where you'd be told needy students do not run for political positions. You are needy.

[00:48:31]>> You need to be helped by [laughter] help.

[00:48:32]>> So that is exactly the same case that applies in the national politics and especially Kakamega you will not be able to because it's competitive, >> very competitive. You need financial muscles to run for those positions.

[00:48:45]Wanga, how do you plan to compete then against seasoned politicians with established grassroots uh networks and of course even the financial muscles?

[00:48:52]>> I'm a seasoned politician despite being a young age. [laughter] >> I think uh it's strategy.

[00:48:57]>> Yes.

[00:48:58]>> Sometimes I say we talk about resources but we forget the strategy part.

[00:49:04]>> Mhm.

[00:49:05]>> If you don't have strategy even with resources >> you will not get it.

[00:49:09]>> There are some people who start doing campaigning immediately after election.

[00:49:13]>> Mhm. They've won. They are out and about they spend too much.

[00:49:16]>> Mhm.

[00:49:17]>> Go and have a sit down with or one time invite the governor for Bungama.

[00:49:21]>> Mhm.

[00:49:22]>> He tell he started campaigning 4 months to the elections.

[00:49:25]>> 4 months to the elections >> and he was elected governor >> and he won.

[00:49:29]>> Yes. Yes. Uh the governor forishu >> started campaigning in 2021.

[00:49:36]>> Mhm.

[00:49:37]>> He won but he won a tired man.

[00:49:40]>> He was [laughter] tired. I mean you'd start a race with someone you start campaigning today a year to the elections and someone comes 2 months to the election wipes you out of the >> good strategy >> is it >> who where are your voters >> Mhm. And what is the actually that's why we were able to win the election in 2020 because as much as we are doing a lot of campaign we knew where the voters were >> which [snorts] was different from who are >> dancing you know >> everywhere.

[00:50:09]>> So it's about the strategy. So the only way to deal with established politicians is >> be a grassroot man >> strategy. Simple as that. Yeah.

[00:50:20]>> To our viewers, >> someone is spending 60 million, you'll end up spending 30 >> less or more >> and you still win that particular position >> with a good strategy.

[00:50:31]>> A good strategy.

[00:50:32]>> This is a really great insights you're giving our viewers today, Odanga. And I know there are so many people who are watching you today, young and old, female and male and of course even your constituents who you wish to come and represent in the year in a year to come.

[00:50:44]Actually, it's actually a year away. Um what is is this particular uh thing you'd like to tell our viewers if elected today as the senator of Kakamega County? What will be the first battle you will pick with the people of Kakamega?

[00:50:57]>> Thank you. I think uh what I would tell my people especially I want to start with the people for Kakamega >> Mhm.

[00:51:04]>> is uh once you give me a mandate to be the senator for I think the best important thing is to carry out a legislative mandate that ensures the real needs of Kakamega people are addressed.

[00:51:18]>> Yeah.

[00:51:19]>> Because we have leadership that does not really understand what is a people. Mhm.

[00:51:26]>> We engage in the perception of doing projects for PR >> or to attract international funding >> but we forget the basics.

[00:51:36]>> Yes.

[00:51:37]>> So for me what draws my attention even to see somebody wonders why Kakame is because >> there are tailor made needs for Kakamea county that needs to be addressed. I told you about family.

[00:51:48]>> Yes. You may not be aware one time take a trip to Mia you'll understand the impact the collapse of Mia had on >> the community it changed the lifestyle >> completely >> and now we have many minerals discovery that if we do not address it well >> Mhm. we will still get to where is >> so apart from farming we have a poverty challenge >> how does the governor come up with the right policies to change the life of our people because at the end of the day your role of a senator is to legislate >> then to check on accountability >> so I think I would say the most important bit is >> I will make sure that we who are in leadership >> understand what's really the problem because unless you understand what The problem is >> you'll end up for the next 5 years curing >> what is not there >> that was not there >> the disease >> whereby you put a lot of millions in projects that are not people oriented >> but they are more so that you know they can do photos and post all of you we need to understand what is ailing our county and what is ailing our account in Kakamega is the economic index is very low people are straining most of the industries we have are not doing Well, >> guys suffer a lot of political influence.

[00:53:10]>> There is little industrialization in Kaka County.

[00:53:13]>> Mhm.

[00:53:14]>> Even Kenya at large.

[00:53:15]>> Kenya at large.

[00:53:16]>> That's why we are struggling with youth employability because industries are closed every day.

[00:53:21]>> So how do we open that space so that we sort youth employment >> cuz if we don't s this bit of youth employability to catch up with us.

[00:53:30]>> Yahoo boys in Nigeria did not wake up one day and started manifesting. Not at all. It was a government that did not a government that is not putting industries in place.

[00:53:42]>> These things of putting our young men and women to slash on the road even when the grass will stop growing. So what is the job then?

[00:53:51]>> We have to think industrialization.

[00:53:53]>> Industrialization.

[00:53:54]>> We have to think creating avenues for jobs.

[00:53:58]>> How do we do it? The leadership needs to go back and get our industries back.

[00:54:03]Mhm.

[00:54:03]>> If we get our industries back, we've solved >> shall have sorted a very huge problem.

[00:54:08]>> If we sort that have employed many of our >> That's for sure. And of course that not only applies to Kakameya but of course the country at large nationalwide that is actually an issue that is facing every other person within the country Kenya. So of course to our viewersh this has been the political side where you get analysis from the front row and I have been your host Freda Mongar with Odanga Pesa Shukran. [clears throat] Thank you so much. Thank you.

[00:54:31]>> [music]