The ending of disorder | Krishnamurti

Ajouté : 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]Therefore I must first understand what it means to live not what it means to die.

[00:00:07]One's life as it is is a turmoil – as it is.

[00:00:11]It is chaos, it is a mess, with all kinds of ideals, conclusions – it is a mess.

[00:00:21]Now, if there is no order in this mess I can't understand what death is. Because death is perfect order.

[00:00:33]I don't know if you see.

[00:00:36]S: What do you mean, because order to me is something imposed from without.

[00:00:38]K: Wait, sir, I'm coming to that. Death is perfect order because it is the ending of disorder.

[00:00:45]S: All right. I understand. Yes.

[00:00:50]K: So, there must be the ending of disorder in my living.

[00:00:58]S: Yes.

[00:00:59]K: And the ending of disorder is to be aware of what is disorder, choicelessly. What is disorder? My belief, my gods, my country, my saying, 'This is better' – you follow? – all this terrible violence.

[00:01:15]See it as it is. And when you see it as it is without separation you have energy – as we went into that.

[00:01:25]Then in perceiving disorder there is order, which is harmony.

[00:01:33]Now, having established that – established in the sense: see it, realize, be it – then death is not separate from order, they are together. Order means the ending of disorder.

[00:01:56]S: Yes, and disorder or order, means a consciousness of my presence within you or your presence within me, or of our oneness.

[00:02:13]We must pursue the question of our becoming aware or giving this undivided attention or loving each other in which each other is eliminated. Now this is a duality.

[00:02:26]K: There is only a state... Look, sir, there is no you and me.

[00:02:30]S: Yes. K: I am not you and you are not me.

[00:02:34]There is that quality of awareness, choiceless, that sense of attention, in which the me and the you ceases.

[00:02:42]You don't say: 'It's unity', unity implies division.

[00:02:49]S: But you are using unity in the mathematical sense now.

[00:02:52]I am using unity... Oneness to me implies no, oneness to me means the same as undivided attention. K: Yes.

[00:03:04]S: It doesn't mean division. It doesn't presuppose division.

[00:03:07]K: You see, sir, we are discussing what does it mean to live, to love and to die.

[00:03:19]That is, the ending of disorder is the ending of death.

[00:03:26]I don't know there's great beauty in this.

[00:03:31]In that state there is not you and me – there is no division.

[00:03:40]Then you can find out in that state what is the immeasurable.

[00:03:46]Only then you can find out not before, because then it becomes merely speculation, or somebody says, 'There is the immeasurable,there is no God or God' – that has no value.

[00:03:57]Only when there is this complete order, really mathematical order, born out of disorder, not a blueprint imposed on disorder, then you will find out, then the mind discovers whether there is an immeasurable or not.

[00:04:20]That, nobody can say, 'yes' or 'no'.

[00:04:25]If you don't see it, if there is no perception of the immeasurable then it merely becomes conceptual.

[00:04:35]And most religions live on conceptual.

[00:04:41]S: Suppose we were to pursue this question of order as the next step and ask ourselves, when we say things like this, that peace harmony, like the harmony of my fingers working together or like the harmony of you and I in our dialogue, if we were to say that peace or harmony is the tranquillity that's associated with order, and wanted to say and what more do we mean by order than just orderliness?

[00:05:14]K: Oh my! Orderliness every housewife has.

[00:05:19]S: Yes, and can be in complete turmoil in the possession of orderliness.

[00:05:23]K: Turmoil inside. We are talking not only outward order but deep, inward order.

[00:05:28]S: Yes. Now, what does this deep, inward can I use the word 'ordination' rather than 'order'?

[00:05:32]K: Ordination – I don't know quite what… S: The ordination of one to another, then remove the divisions.

[00:05:41]K: Ordination. If we understand by that word order in the sense no conflict, no friction, no sense of me being bigger than you, or no comparison, no sense of ambition, greed... S: Possession K: the real quality of mind which is not concerned with all this bilge with all this nonsense – then that is order.