Pastor Sues Woman For $20,000 After She Claims He Was Embezzling Money From The Church

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:00]You are a preacher, is that correct?

[00:00:02]>> Yes, your honor. Why don't you tell me a little bit about the congregation, the church, your mission, how it reached out to the community? Well, we have maybe 500 members.

[00:00:13]We have a neighborhood outreach program.

[00:00:16]We have a shelter on the facility. Okay.

[00:00:18]>> We feed the the hungry on Wednesdays and Thursdays. Mhm. And we basically participate in all activities in the neighborhood. We live in a very low-income area. That's where our church is. Okay. And how long I understand that you started the church with your wife? No, we didn't start the church. We've been on the church for 8 years, me and my wife Grace.

[00:00:41]>> see. I see. Okay.

[00:00:42]>> We worked hard to develop the church.

[00:00:45]Understood.

[00:00:46]>> our whole life to the church. In your responsibility as a head pastor, is it your obligation to basically make sure all of these extra benefits and programs are running smoothly and to do outreach to the community?

[00:01:01]>> Yes, your honor. Okay. And how is your relationship with the community?

[00:01:06]We have a wonderful relationship with the community. Although it is a low-income area, we have a very good outreach program. Okay. Okay, so it seems like he's a pretty stand-up member of his community. What could have happened that now he's suing a member of his own church?

[00:01:25]Now, Ms. Ellis, I understand that you were a member of this congregation. Hi, your honor. Yes.

[00:01:31]>> Why don't you tell me a little bit about the congregation, its mission, why you joined it, and what what it stands for?

[00:01:37]It's a small church. Um well, somewhat small. However, um I was involved um with uh certain aspects of the church like helping feed the the homeless and different things like that. Whatever the pastor needed, you know, I would assist and help, you know, interject or whatever.

[00:01:57]>> And I understand you're a real estate agent.

[00:01:58]>> Yes.

[00:01:59]>> Okay. Now, why choose that church?

[00:02:02]Um well, I mean, I listened to some of his [clears throat] tapes and uh he did teach the word of God um that I believed in and how I I grew up.

[00:02:13]>> It sounds like really it's a wonderful congregation. Yes, your honor. I'm not seeking vengeance from Ms. Ellis. I'm just seeking the truth and justice.

[00:02:22]>> Well, you're also seeking $20,000, so it might be a little bit of vengeance.

[00:02:28]Just a little.

[00:02:30]So, then what went wrong? What happened, in your own words? Obviously, I have both of your statements, and I know you have evidence, but what happened? Well, she came to me with a development scheme. Mhm.

[00:02:44]And um I looked at it, and I took it home and I prayed on it.

[00:02:51]And it came to me in the spirit that this isn't what what the community needed.

[00:02:55]>> Mhm. It was gentrification. It was taking away from low-income people building high-rises. I got a rendering of the Okay, yeah. You can give it to to to send her. But what did she want you to do?

[00:03:09]>> She wanted the church to approve her >> Oh, I see, to be a sponsor.

[00:03:12]>> Yes, ma'am. Yes, your honor.

[00:03:14]>> see. Like to kind of like support it. Is that what you were looking for?

[00:03:18]>> To have a pastor approve it and put the name of the congregation so at least it had community support.

[00:03:27]>> Absolutely.

[00:03:27]>> Oh, okay. And you decided not to give your approval, your personal approval as a pastor of your congregation, because you said it would affect low-income people where they were living. Explain that a little more.

[00:03:43]>> Yes, your honor. Well, the development is for people with more wealth in our community.

[00:03:48]>> Okay. Would it kind of destroy some of the apartments or some of the locations?

[00:03:53]>> that that in the community if this development come in, they would have to relocate. And they could not afford to come back. And we would lose members to the church. She has already caused me to lose members.

[00:04:04]>> Yo, what? Now, this is a perfect example of a god-fearing Christian man. He's not selling out. In fact, he's standing up for what's right and the little people. I mean, I've seen like every movie ever made about some sort of real estate developer being the bad guy. She's like this close to having a finger-twirling mustache.

[00:04:27]So, did you explain this to Ms. Ellis?

[00:04:30]Yes, I talked to her.

[00:04:31]>> Okay. And I told her when she called and told me about it, I told her I said, "Well, there's nowhere for the people in the community to go. I don't expect them to sleep on the street."

[00:04:43]>> Okay. And then what happened after that?

[00:04:44]So, you said respectfully, Ms. Ellis, I can't put my name on this because it will really it will displace a lot of our own church members. So, what did she say when you said When I turned down the program, she looked me in eyes and told me that she would get revenge for me for doing it.

[00:05:05]>> Okay. All right. Did you believe her?

[00:05:07]You know, I I didn't pay too much attention to it. I just went on with my work.

[00:05:12]>> Okay. And then what happened? Just >> Then I looked on the internet, she had posted a lie about me. What did she say about you?

[00:05:19]>> She posted a lie about I was embezzling money from the church. Okay, how much were you embezzling?

[00:05:24]>> It was it was $500.

[00:05:26]That's a lot of money, right?

[00:05:27]>> Wait, your honor, the $500 came from on Sunday, they called and told me that the stove at the church had broken. Huh.

[00:05:37]And I didn't have time to go to the deacon board cuz we had to feed people on Wednesdays and Thursdays. I went in my pocket and paid for the stove.

[00:05:45]>> Okay. Wait a second. She's saying that he's embezzling money, but it's only $500.

[00:05:55]>> [laughter] >> Usually when you say embezzling money it's like thousands upon thousands of dollars at least. Okay. Listen, I'm also just going to say I don't believe for 1 second that this dude was stealing money from the church. He said he used the money to replace the stove at the church so he can feed people. I don't know, lady, it looks like you're starting to have a little bit more of a some facial hair right here.

[00:06:21]Right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:06:23]All right.

[00:06:24]Right there.

[00:06:26]Right there.

[00:06:29]Did you have [music] to get permission, I would imagine, to do this? Did you call somebody?

[00:06:34]>> but I told the deacon in the church after I had purchased it.

[00:06:38]>> And what did the deacon in the church say?

[00:06:39]>> He told me just take the money out of the congregation and it was worth myself. So, he understood it was an emergency. Yes, ma'am. Yes, your honor.

[00:06:48]>> mean, I imagine that most churches um well, you have to but by law because of the type of nonprofit corporation you are, you have to have some kind of reporting disclosure or a board that agrees to certain emergencies like this.

[00:07:05]Was the deacon the person you went to on financial emergencies? Like he would be able to approve it? In most cases, your honor, but for something for this amount of money, I could just do it out of my pocket.

[00:07:17]>> Oh, I see. Did you guys have a limit?

[00:07:19]Did you have a limit for >> a $500 limit.

[00:07:21]>> Oh, I see. So, you as the pastor, would any other board members or anybody else who worked, maybe the director of community affairs, do they also have that privilege? No, just the pastor.

[00:07:32]Just me.

[00:07:33]>> Oh, okay. All right.

[00:07:34]>> money from the church >> Okay, Ms. Ellis, one one second. So, the stove broke, you had to feed people from the food bank, you needed to get a stove, so you went out and got it replaced right away. Yes, your honor.

[00:07:47]>> And you told the deacon, the deacon said no problem. Did the deacon and you then later on report it, for example, to your treasurer? Your honor, the the deacon did probably done that, but it was no problem. So, this was an emergency as you said, the stove broke down, you active in you acted impulsively, not impulsively, but you acted in in a hurried manner to make sure you would be able to feed.

[00:08:12]Um did you think about maybe calling somebody to fix the stove, or did you did you was the stove old? I'm trying to understand why go out and buy a new one.

[00:08:22]>> The stove was probably 30 years old, your honor. Oh, I see. So, you as you said, you had that privilege to spend that amount of money. You went out, bought a new stove. Was it delivered the same day? No, your honor. It was delivered like on a Tuesday.

[00:08:37]>> Okay. All right. Okay, and what did Oh, so the Tuesday before the Wednesday. I I got it. All right. So, you told the deacon, the deacon had said, "Okay, go ahead and do it." I imagine that obviously, because you're a nonprofit corporation, you the deacon had to pass that through like your financial, your treasurer. Did he do that? Did he take those steps? Well, he probably did, your honor, but he reimbursed me my $500 right away.

[00:09:03]>> who reimbursed you.

[00:09:04]>> Yes, your honor. Oh, I see. Did he like Zelle you directly or electronically?

[00:09:10]>> out of the petty fund, he just paid me the $500.

[00:09:13]>> Okay.

[00:09:14]So, he paid you in cash.

[00:09:15]>> Yes, your honor. I understood. Okay. All right. Essentially, you're saying she posts what about you? She found the receipt for me getting the $500.

[00:09:27]And she posted half of the receipt and told the people in the congregation I had embezzled the money.

[00:09:34]Your honor, it was a big statement.

[00:09:36]>> One second. One second. One second.

[00:09:38]>> That you had embezzled the money. Yes, your honor. Well, that is embezzlement.

[00:09:42]>> Okay. Hold hold on for a >> I got receipts.

[00:09:44]>> You're a pastor. You can't do that.

[00:09:46]>> Okay. Ms. Mills, we'll talk about what embezzlement is and the definition the legal definition in a minute. Um Again, even if it was true, it was just $500.

[00:09:59]Am I crazy for thinking that? Lady's acting like he's freaking Biff from Back to the Future. When in reality, I think she's just self-reporting. She's projecting her own motives onto him.

[00:10:10]So, she posted what on social media?

[00:10:14]>> Yes, on social media and in the around the community, everywhere, your honor.

[00:10:17]And then that you had embezzled $500.

[00:10:22]>> Yes, I was a fraud. What the heck could he do with $500?

[00:10:27]Your honor.

[00:10:28]>> Like I mean no, I'm just asking a question because I'll get to your side of the story, but just How How was he going to benefit from $400? I mean, we know the world we live in. Everything is super expensive.

[00:10:40]>> Yes.

[00:10:40]>> $500 ain't going to get him far. So, $500 really embezzlement? Okay, so I'm not crazy. The judge agrees. It's just $500. I feel so validated.

[00:10:52]I feel so validated.

[00:10:56]Had he done this before? Did you have facts that he had done something contrary to his mission and his promise No, not to my knowledge.

[00:11:05]>> took things that weren't his from the the the the church, the congregation?

[00:11:09]>> Not to my knowledge.

[00:11:10]>> Did you ever hear that he stole money, the petty cash on Sunday, anything like that?

[00:11:14]>> Not to my knowledge.

[00:11:15]>> any rumors about him flying that there's something wrong with the pastor? Uh not monetarily, but you know, >> But like what? What rumors?

[00:11:25]I don't know, just whispers, but nothing definitive.

[00:11:28]>> Whispers are so deadly, aren't they?

[00:11:30]>> I know. Yes, but I never repeated any of that.

[00:11:33]>> Oh, you didn't because you're a good, God-fearing woman. Absolutely, your honor. But so, we both agree as regular human beings living in 2025, $500 couldn't have gotten him that far, Right. Yes. And he had never done this before based on your facts. Not to my >> of him taking a penny.

[00:11:53]Even petty cash, nothing. All right.

[00:11:56]So, let's say your right hand went out and bought paper because you didn't have any printing paper, right? And you had no idea you had no printing paper, but you need it because you're a real estate agent, you got to print out those things constantly, right?

[00:12:09]>> Right. So, if your employee said, I don't know what to do, I know you had your big clients, I would not and I just bought the paper and I reimbursed myself petty cash, but here's the receipt.

[00:12:18]Would you fire that person?

[00:12:22]Probably not.

[00:12:25]Probably not. No, the answer is no. Like straight up, it would be stupid to fire a person like that, okay?

[00:12:31]Okay.

[00:12:33]>> [laughter] >> You're dumb.

[00:12:37]Why was it that what he did so bad in your opinion?

[00:12:42]And why was it embezzlement and a um uh something that betrayed a betrayal to the community and to the church that made you publicize this on social media?

[00:12:57]Like what was so bad about this instance? If you would have reimbursed your employee from your own petty cash for doing something in an emergency, what is the difference?

[00:13:09]Yeah, well, the development deal that I conveyed to him, um I was really Of course, I'm a real estate agent, so I'm going to get a commission.

[00:13:20]And at the same time, I was looking out for the church. I would never see anyone homeless or not eating or anything.

[00:13:26]Gentrification is going on everywhere. I was trying to share with him that the church would benefit. I would not He He was looking out for the community. So, uh he I mean, he he considered it, but then he backtracked and he said he prayed about it and he said no, he does not want to hurt the community. So, what's wrong with that?

[00:13:45]Nothing. I I I just felt that he didn't see my vision for >> But he doesn't have to see your vision.

[00:13:52]No, that's true. That's true.

[00:13:54]>> Right? He's a pastor. Yes.

[00:13:55]>> He doesn't think about visions and and and beautiful buildings and beautiful parks because from what I understand here, it would have had a community park for people to share It is a beautiful project. I did did review it.

[00:14:11]>> Yes. But he didn't have to like it.

[00:14:14]True, however, [snorts] >> you mad that he didn't give the support?

[00:14:18]Was he a popular pastor? Yes, he was pretty popular.

[00:14:21]>> Everybody in the community loved him?

[00:14:22]Pretty much respected, yes.

[00:14:24]>> Really? So, anything that he said would go?

[00:14:27]For the most part. This lady's just mad she couldn't get her luxury apartment built. And she was claiming that he was embezzling money from the church when in reality, it was just $500 to replace a broken stove so he could feed the needy people OF HIS COMMUNITY. HELL [screaming] NO.

[00:14:45]I almost ran out of breath doing that one.

[00:14:48]Pastor, tell me what happened to the church after this was publicized on social media?

[00:14:54]>> Two-thirds of my congregation left.

[00:14:56]Okay. I had to shut down the the food kitchen.

[00:15:00]My wife, Grace, was a cancer survivor.

[00:15:04]She went back in the got sick again. My daughter, Naomi, because of the community and the respect from other people, she ran away from home, your honor. How old is she?

[00:15:16]She's 19. Wow.

[00:15:18]>> People that's been in my corner for years turned it back on me because of this one lie. Wow. It wasn't a lie. I mean, it was a truth.

[00:15:27]>> a lie. You just heard the facts, Ms. Ellis. Did you ever go speak to the deacon?

[00:15:32]No. And when he explained to you what happened, did you believe him? I mean, after the fact, but I told him he could have come to me.

[00:15:40]>> Did you retract what you said? No, I I would have given >> the sponsors that were sponsoring the food bank, "Please forgive me. I made a horrible mistake. Because of me, people are suffering."

[00:15:53]People who depended on meals on Wednesdays and Fridays, was it?

[00:15:57]>> Yes, your honor.

[00:15:57]>> Aren't going to get meals anymore.

[00:16:00]I mean, do you know how expensive food is now? I know.

[00:16:04]>> lining up at food banks because they cannot afford I mean, everything. I mean, whether it's a government shutdown, it's not, people can't afford food. And funding food banks is by far the most important thing any of us could do. Is there anything else you want to add, Mr. Pastor Cooley?

[00:16:22]Your honor, I'm just not here for vengeance. I'm just here to for the truth.

[00:16:26]>> then? The $20,000 would help the food bank, help me get back >> Oh, so you don't want the money for yourself? No, your honor. I want it for the church. She destroyed it. I want to build it back up. Wow. Standing ovation for the pastor, everybody.

[00:16:42]>> [applause] >> Honestly, I feel like the defendant should feel awful about this. I can't really tell if she feels any remorse.

[00:16:51]Maybe she has too much pride to be able to admit it, but she's in the wrong here. Totally, totally selfish. And now there's a lot of people that are suffering because of it. She doesn't care one bit about people in need. Under defamation, you said a false statement, you posted it, you knew it to be false, and it caused damages. Caused damages to him personally, to his reputation, to his daughter, and most importantly to the church.

[00:17:20]And I find it so egregious that this court will rule in favor of the plaintiff for $20,000.

[00:17:29]>> [applause] >> Okay.

[00:17:33]Now, I thought about adding punitive damages because you were so sure it was it was embezzlement and you knew it wasn't embezzlement. But I'm not going to because I hope you realize what you did was wrong and I hope you apologize publicly in the social media and retract everything you did. That would be what I would expect from a woman of faith to do.

[00:17:56]That's just a personal insight, it's not a legal insight. I'm not going to make you do that, but I would hope you do that. But based on the evidence, I will grant the plaintiff's claim for $20,000 and rule in favor of the plaintiff. Good luck. Thank you, your honor.

[00:18:10]>> Thank you. All rise. Yes, I 100% agree with that judgment. Clearly, [music] the defendant was projecting onto him or was really upset that he said no to her luxury apartment project. He is acting exactly how a Christian should act. He is selfless, he is [music] kind, and he is helping his community. And to see him knocked down like that is heartbreaking to see. What do you guys think? Do you think that he was truly embezzling money? Or if what she was saying was true, would you consider $500 [music] embezzlement? You know what I also wonder? I wonder if she's ever going to have a community again [music] after this. Cuz she probably took the only community that she was a part of that she had and threw it out the window the moment she made those statements. Do you guys think that if she apologized publicly, that she'd be able to mend this relationship and be able to rejoin this community? And do you think that after all of this, do [music] you think that the pastor's community and his congregation is going to come back to the church? Let me know about that. What do you guys think about the judgment? Do you think it was too much, too little, or just right? I would love to know your thoughts.

[00:19:20]>> [music] >> Let me know.

[00:19:22]Love you. We're a church for the community.

[00:19:26]We understand people fall short. I sir, I apologize. I It was greed. I was angry. My apologies.

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