| MONDAY REPORT | No Deal in Fuel Talks [Part 2]

Added: 2026-05-19

[00:00:04]Thank you for staying with the Monday report. We're still discussing the fuel high crisis. My guests are still with me. Kevin Mubari, national executive chairman, border border safety association of Kenya. Cornelius tipsy the chair rig owners association.

[00:00:16]Kushian Mushiri the chair association of matu transport owners and Martin Chamba the chair petroleum outlets association.

[00:00:23]Mi let me come to you on this. Do you support this strike as the border border sector?

[00:00:28]>> Okay. uh any strike is not a good strike. So long as that is affecting the lives of people and uh uh the movement of people then it is not a good strike for the economy of the country and we as the borderboard ourselves. Yeah. You find that we are finding ourselves between a rock uh >> because hard place >> and a hard place because for us if we are not riding even one 10 minutes it means we are losing out. Our people live from hand to mouth and uh our bikes we have loans we have that we have to pay every day. So the we might support the strike because of the cost of fuel but on the other hand we also don't support strike that cause chaos you know if it is a strike the way the matu had said that we we pack our vehicles at home that that is what should have been done but I think we have some goons who have come in and taken over the issue and now that changes everything from a peaceful strike to something that now brings chaos you have seen people's car being banned on the road, looting has been happening. Uh then that changes everything uh for for for us as the border sector.

[00:01:43]>> Yeah. In fact, there's a the people say that it's your people who benefited the most today because that was away from the roads and they are the ones who transported.

[00:01:52]>> Yeah. Some of our riders took the advantage to try and f people. We we today we operated like a essential service providers because uh you find that someone was going to the hospital.

[00:02:03]Uh we have someone who has an emergency case that you they want despite seeing all the roads are being closed but you see this person wants to cross from one point to another and uh our border border people came in to to support and make sure that these people reach where they are going. But uh all in all it is not the the strike is not good for the country and uh we just urge the government to find solution to have the discussion. I was in that meeting also but I left earlier before the press briefing that came out. Uh the government is showing some goodwill but uh that goodwill is not coming out clearly. So I think we'll have another negotiation again to make sure that now the goodwill comes in and uh this thing ends because today when you look at the loss that the government has has made from the taxes they will have collected today when you look at the matter to people the loss they have gone today we as the border people most of people are not operating those that you saw are very few who just tried to operate but all of people are at home.

[00:03:06]>> Yeah.

[00:03:06]>> Okay. Let me bring in Martin. But the government keeps arguing that this is not a Kenyan problem. It's a global issue because of the war between Iran and the US and the closure of the street of Hormuz as a petroleum outlets association. Does that make sense? Do you buy that argument?

[00:03:25]>> Thank you Trevor. I will speak to you.

[00:03:27]Uh I was not in the meeting and so I have the benefit of now speaking from uh the W's eye view. they are speaking from the bird's eye view and I am a student of development studies and so I'll tell you that I understand when the government talks about the straight of a moose and the constraint of the 20% movement of oil within the global space supply chain um and bringing the pressure here and that is true but you see on the other hand that we need to appreciate that uh globally uh nations are not the I have seen actually people are comparing the prices in Europe and in the US with Kenya and truth is that the prices are very high in America. But when you compare America and Kenya, you're not comparing like for like because um people in US uh they are paid at the very least $19 per hour at the very least. And so when uh people in America are paying higher cost of fuel, they are paying for mambadans. When we pay higher prices of fuel, we are paying we are paying from nothing. And the best illustrations I can give is that you have 10 chicken, he has five, he has two, I have none and maybe he have 10.

[00:04:50]So the minute we say that each of us must slaughter one chicken, you are slaughtering one chicken from 10. And so you can even say me I will even slaughter three but you'll have been left with seven. I slaughter from from nothing. He slaughters from nothingness.

[00:05:06]I have one. So when we slaughter and say that everybody is slaughtering chicken in the world we are not slaughtering at the same level. And so that is why I'm saying when we we talk about the prices of fuel comparative prices of fuel in the world we are not talking about uh we are not comparing likes for likes. And so uh the price of petroleum in Kenya is very high in comparison to the level of our GDP and the economy what our economy can absorb.

[00:05:34]>> Yeah.

[00:05:34]>> And so we need what do we need to do?

[00:05:37]People are saying that um government ine one thing I want to say is that I'm cognizant of the fact that the government of Kenya does not get money from anywhere else other than taxes.

[00:05:47]Having said that, I also need to tell Kenyans that the government of Kenya does not own even one liter of oil in this country. And when they negotiate and when they give these things that they giving the prices, they are talking about somebody else's product. The pritorium in this country is in the hands of the private sector. Private sectors are answerable to their shareholders and you cannot tell this person to sell fuel. You remember just before the prices were announced they were not there were a lot of outages of diesel within the petrol stations for for it's because they knew people understood that the prices were going up and this is why I am faulting I'm indicting the government I'm indicting the ministry of energy and the ministry and the government the office of the the spokesman the government spokesman why it is not that we got to know yesterday that the prices will come up this high >> today I can tell you from where I sit Yeah, >> I am not government within the private sector. But I can tell you on June 14th what we are likely to see, we are likely to see a more hike of the petroleum. Uh so increase again.

[00:06:56]>> Yes. Why should we wait until then as government >> to be surprised? Because what happened yesterday or the other day is that both the citizens and the government were all surprised that the prices have gone up.

[00:07:08]Yeah, >> it's like everybody from April for the first time. What I am advocating for from where I sit is first communication within government circles >> is lacking because people need to be carried together.

[00:07:23]>> Yeah.

[00:07:23]>> We need to appreciate and understand that this is what is coming on June 14th >> from today. And so because this is what is coming, we are doing A B C D to mitigate. M >> and when you do that you walk together with people like the times of corona we would have somebody who would come and tell us that this is where we are this is what we have done and this is what we expect and so people walk through that problem together but when you you keep quiet until 14th >> and and like it's a national security issue to say what the prices are then everybody acts the price even that shock itself is unpalatable to the people >> so you know now as a petroleum outlet association that by June 14th the price will go higher again >> let me tell you why.

[00:08:06]>> Yeah.

[00:08:06]>> Because this time is when we have started now feeling the heat of the actual war.

[00:08:12]>> Okay.

[00:08:13]>> Because the way we procure petroleum in the country is one month prior.

[00:08:18]>> So the price that we are having now >> between June 14th May 14th and June 14th >> is what is happening right now.

[00:08:30]>> Okay. And so I am just having to look at the prices of the the the Brent and the and the plats and I'm able to draw parallel and know what will be the price.

[00:08:40]>> But how come our neighbors seem to be having it under control including those who are landlocked?

[00:08:45]>> Thank you for the question. You see today you never hear Kenyans saying the the government has raised the prices of sugarcane because the government is never involved in telling people the about the prices of sugarcane. I told you the government does not have a product of its own. It talks about somebody else's product. So what do other countries do? Uh in Uganda, one of the biggest reasons why their prices are lower than us, it may seem trivial, but this is very true is is is a a very big contributing factor. They do not announce what you call pump price. So what do they do? They uh co together at the importation. Uganda National Oil Corporation imports fuel in Uganda and then let these guys oil marketers out compete themselves. When they out compete themselves the the the benefits accuse to the common person. The other thing is that their taxation regime >> is lower than ours. They rage between 30 to 40%. We rage between 40 to 50%. And so that is a huge disparity. Yeah. And as I was saying earlier, the government of Kenya, even though we know that they don't get fuel from anywhere, I want to make a case here. Diesel is a production oil.

[00:10:03]>> And so the cost of restarting a business that has closed, Trevor, is bigger, requires more energy than government reorganizing its revenues and the fiscal space.

[00:10:15]>> Okay.

[00:10:16]>> We have about 7.2memes in this country.

[00:10:19]>> Yeah. If they close because of the prices of diesel, we will have more problems than government looking for other alternatives. And so for me, yeah, >> I wish they can take a more shave and they give us another 8% in the VAT >> because they I know we will not get revenue as the government will not get revenue but that will save a lot of pressure and even collection of of other taxes will continue >> will continue. May we bring in Kushian on this and also Jeep Soy Christian. Are you concerned that there seemed to be goons who took over this strike?

[00:10:55]Yeah, it's a major concern and uh for us it was supposed to be a very very peaceful uh strike where we just keep our uh withdraw our services and for the government now to reach out so that we have an engagement and uh I can assure you we when we made the press statement that was on Friday without uh the government would reach out by Saturday and they did not and by Sunday the decision of the majority of leadership was that now they would block all the roads across the country come Monday.

[00:11:43]uh but fortunately the government reached out on the same day and when we went for the meeting we I informed the members that the government has reached out and they are willing to meet actually the the CSI and the counterpart free all the way from Mombasa I think to come and have a meeting but by then it was already part six.

[00:12:07]>> Yeah.

[00:12:07]>> And the members decided to meet on Monday afternoon. So, but we were able to agree uh that now that the government has reached out, we just tell our drivers and conductors and owners of vehicles, there will be no blocking of the road.

[00:12:29]That would have been a result of the government not being in communication with the leadership. So, we keep the vehicles at home and no demonstration, no nothing until we reach an conclusion.

[00:12:41]And even today as a result of being having an engagement however little we were able to achieve on the adotration you see our statement was that as much as the strike continues hopefully we can get an agreement as soon as even tonight >> there's no we if the oneai comes back on TV and announces the what was proposed >> tomorrow we wake up and go to work >> okay But uh we also gave a statement that the vehicles should remain at home and I believe all the goons >> that have infiltrated our peaceful strike with demos and looting the police are out there they will do their work.

[00:13:28]>> So now you're saying that this is for you from tomorrow it's there's no protests just the vehicles to stay at home demonstrations nothing. Yeah, no demonstration.

[00:13:37]>> Okay.

[00:13:38]>> Nothing because as you can see the truckers association has instructed their vehicles to remain packed >> and uh I think it will it will still be impossible for movement because you see even the fuel truckers they have refused to carry fuel to the petrol stations. So even if there's movement there will be another shortage because there's no fuel being transported. M so I I can only hope that the government sleeps over it and gives comes up with a good with a reasonable >> solution tomorrow. So you said that this is not a matter to strike. It's supposed to be a nationwide strike but there were infiltration by goons who are taking advantage of the protests.

[00:14:23]You know, uh, in this country there's a very bad habits.

[00:14:32]They say when is it a hyena?

[00:14:35]When a hyena wants to eat its kids, >> the young ones, it says they smell like goods.

[00:14:42]>> Yeah.

[00:14:44]>> One of the things I'm not a mat owner.

[00:14:46]Like I said, I'm a rig owner and our equipments are very high value. So pretty obviously we could not bring them to the road. These are in the millions.

[00:14:55]I mean an average rig will cost about 30 to 40 million shillings. So you don't expect us to bring our rigs to the road.

[00:15:01]>> I mean we are decent enough to understand that we are not prepared to lose that kind of an equipment.

[00:15:08]>> But let me ask you Trevor you I'm sure you've been around and you've been following the developments. If you look at all our statements we were very clear about what we are going to do. M >> we said we are withdrawing service and in our statement as late as yesterday we were saying the rules are open for those who want to move. We said emergency vehicles all that should be allowed to move. We have not asked anybody to stop moving. We have withdrawn our vehicles, our equipments and everything that pertains to us and packed them in our yards >> for safety and to silently and quietly protest to government to say it's no longer sustainable to do business with this kind of price.

[00:15:52]>> So the idea was not to protest >> it. Yes. No, it's a silent protest. If I remove my vehicle >> demonstrations where people on the road >> those are not us. In fact, let me tell you Trevor, there's something that this government is failing to understand.

[00:16:06]And now let me use the potatoes again because you know many people don't understand our nature of business. So we talk about the mats because it's easier for people to understand. If a matter owner withdraws his vehicle from the road who service is it is it just a matter to owner >> the commuter >> or the commuter.

[00:16:25]The reason why we are all withdrawing our services is we are saying it is no longer attenable for me to bring my rig to drill your bow hole because 76 shillings on average we use close to 2,000 shillings uh 2,000 L of fuel of diesel per well. Now if you increase 76 shillings, how much is that? That's 156,000 additional cost on fuel and that's just about the profit you were looking for.

[00:16:56]So where do I plug how do I explain to my customer that suddenly your your your your ball hole has gone up by close to 150 to 200,000 where where do I get that luxury >> that's the reason why we are saying look instead of me going to do uh charitable I mean because basically what the government is asking us is to do charity now I want to explain a concept and I want you to follow me Trevor so that Kenyans understand why we withdrawing service I have bought my equipment it's 40 million shillings I was making 200 300,000 a well for example now suddenly I find myself as a conduit for others to make money so when I buy fuel and I expend it in a well this guy is still making money because the government has protected his profit at 19 shillings it's about 19 total 17 shillings there's a formula the way it's split between the importer the wholesaler and the retailer he's protected he's going to earn his 17 shillings irrespective of what happens.

[00:17:55]He doesn't have too many other dynamics apart from no of course I know you have your other expenses only >> yes in his petrol station and whatn not but it's ring fenced by government is going to get its VAT >> all right they will collect PDL they will collect all exercise they have a raft of uh bills which is close to 50% of the entire fuel >> that easily converts a business person as a slave and what government in Kenya has been doing is making is becoming a slave driver and rendering business people obsolete. That's what Wai and every other government officer who speaking carelessly about this matter.

[00:18:37]They are not alive to now come to the uh the commuter or the client the boho client you you you you quickly talk to him about an increment in price. He tells you what have we done?

[00:18:52]you have shut down an industry whether it's a mat whether it's the the bowl business whatever it is government begins to lose taxation there's there's there's an ugly thinking in this country that we must get away from >> okay >> this idea that government believes solution to every problem is price increment is tragic >> okay >> by the way let's consider for a moment water which we is our business >> is a constitutional right in Kenya. Now when people don't get that water because of the cost, the rising costs, what has the government done? It has failed in its constitutional duty >> to provide water.

[00:19:34]>> All right.

[00:19:35]>> So my my one thing that I honestly want to speak about is to simply tell government don't bury your head in the sand.

[00:19:42]>> This thing whether we do it whether we continue with a strike or not is just going to get worse.

[00:19:48]>> Okay?

[00:19:49]>> There is no more elasticity. You can no longer tax the Kenyan in whatever name, call it a levy, call it a price increase, whatever it is you want to call, the Kenyan has gotten to the maximum. They can't take any other price adjustment. You know, there was a time they kept increasing the price of bread.

[00:20:10]You can no longer increase the price of bread. Now you're squeezing the size of bread. It's the exact same thing that is happening now. You can't squeeze a mat.

[00:20:18]You can't tell somebody to walk half the distance and then you will pick him halfway home. It can't work. I can't drill half of your of your well.

[00:20:26]Government officers need to start you you know thinking open their mind and understand that they are not in business.

[00:20:35]>> Their job is to ensure that there's a level playing field for business people to operate so they can continue collecting taxes from us. Okay.

[00:20:42]>> Sometimes lowering taxation means collecting more.

[00:20:46]>> Okay. All right. I have to take another quick commercial break. I'll be back with Kevin and Martin as well so that we talk about the way forward as we wind up on this and also bring in some of your feedback. See what you're saying at Trevor Bj at Citizen TV Kenya. Use the hashtag citizen Monday report like to sample some of them right after this break.